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Alright guys, im currently 7 months NC, and I don't know if anyone else can relate, but, I still feel incredibly frustrated about everything.  My ex is expecting her 3rd child with my replacement, jealousy isn't apparent in my mind anymore but the sheer frustration of "How are they still together?" "was this my fault?" "Is she really disordered"? this even now leads me to obsessively read others stories as a way of relating and backing up my gut feeling of how she was by no means a NON.  I cant seem to break out of this cycle of behavior, I dont feel sad, I sleep 8-10 hours a night and appetite is fine so its not as if im depressed by any means, I just cant accept being blocked and deleted from someones life and knowing shes given birth to my replacements kid.  Yes I know and fully understand im better off out of it, but its the WHY? thats frustrating me.           

It sucks to hear and I am sorry you are dealing with this. The truth is you are trying to give a rational thread to an irrational knot and it's a bottomless rabbit hole you go down. It sounds like she got pregnant right away on this, while still in the manic, infatuation stage, nature did the rest. This is just another manifestation of a emotionally diseased mind, trying to set its hooks of dependency on the next victim. You do not know how this will work out, if it's really working out, etc. So truthfully, the why is because her mind is incapable of mature, consistent emotional patterns, she suffers from an irrational emptiness in identity and conscious thought, she cannot hold herself together. You are the victim of her actions, but you can move on with your life. Frustrating, HELL YES! The end of you? HELL NO! Good luck in your efforts, and hope you are doing well in getting past the frustration. It's held all of us at some point.

All,

I totally get it. Im almost 8 months out and I still have those SMH moments, sometimes sadness as well, where Im trying to figure out what the hell I did so wrong to be dumped and replaced with in a week. I dont know, probably never will, not like Im going to ask her or anything. I just have to accept it and move on the best I can. Heldfast is spot on. Its so hard to try and figure out something that cant be figured out. All we can do is move on and try and learn from this and never repeat it.

Is she is she not disorsered?

I really have no idea

But I think you are really starting to narrow in on something here which is that your interest in her narrative is something you lean on to give your self image value.

That what's going on in her life is in contrast to the narrative you had assigned to her in order to makes sense of yourself. 

It's cuz that narrative is not real. It's somthing your mind fabricated because the reality was too painful.

Lean into the pain jammo.

Hey Heldfast, I wont go over everything in detail, because im sure others have heard it many times before, but, this is what i dont understand towards the end of the 2 year relationship she begged me for a baby, she cried day and night, she tried to explain that she was feeling broody and her biological clock was making her obsessed with the thought.  She would tell me I don't want anybody's baby I want yours please I want our baby! At first I said not right now because she has 2 already 3 and 6, her mate then told her "Just get pregnant and have it to ... . him off" After that I said to her "I dont want a baby with you" she then faked pregnancy and then proceeded to text me saying, you killed our baby, Ill never forgive you ever! (abortion) I later found out from a mutual friend that their was no abortion because she was out drinking a week after this apparent outcome.  She push.pulled for 3 weeks after dumping me to the pont I Felt emotionally numb, I then told her I cant do this anymore, but we should still be friends, she then said ok.  The next day I was blocked on FB and by mobile, she slept with her now BF the night after I said this to her, then 3 days later it was FB official then 2 months into her new relationship she gets pregnant, and I know it was planned because she was on the coil.  Why or should I say who does this kind of thing? its not normal from a NON stand point is it?   

Hey Blimblam this isn't about self image, its about feeling frustrated that my good personality traits have been abused, thus from a logical stand point if your good to others the outcome should also be good, but in this case I was nice and this is whats happens. 

yeah the 7-8 month mark seems easier on paper but the lack of closure and why will always mess with our morale personality values, solely because we were treated as if we were some abuser when in reality we were the ones that put all the work in.

Hi jammo1989,

Are you frustrated and hurt that she's settling down with the replacement and not you?

Was having a family something you wanted and may not of been ready for at time or that she seemed unstable?

Were you holding things off?

Hey Mutt I was given the opportunity to have her child, but my gut feeling as well as family and friends all said, this would be the biggest mistake of your life, solely on the fact that leading up to this whole ordeal I even said to her "If i help you find a job I dont care if its part time or minimum wage I will seriously consider it" because I paid for everything and I needed to see that little bit of commitment from her to prove to me that we could go into this together.  She told me she didn't want to work because she would only get to see her kids for a few hours every night before putting them to bed.  My frustration comes from the fact that, she got pregnant 2 months after begging me for a baby, then accusing me of killing it.  It makes me feel as if it was never about US having a baby it was all about HER and what she wanted, I get discarded after 2 years of providing for her and the children that arent even mine, just to be blocked and deleted from her life as if i meant nothing.   

Ahh yeah I can relate to that!  And when they don't react that way it's like feeling a loss of control.

An abortion is difficult and she may of felt guilt and shame and she's projecting it on you.

You have boundaries where you wanted her to work and have financial responsibilities. I think it was a good call.

Do you think maybe the replacement is less responsible and lacking boundaries?

Having a child is a serious commitment. I think you displayed responsibility with family life whereas she needs a caretaker.

But Mutt there was no abortion, my only reasoning for this was to make me stay during the devaluation phase, because by saying I had an abortion she could gain control and my full attention.  For example, I even said to her "Im coming to see you ok? We need to make sure your ok" and her excuse was always this " I love you J, but everytime i hear your voice I hate you, I hate you for making me feel like this (While balling her eyes out).

Im not going to come across like a Narcassist so ill try and be as nice and non competitive as possible, her replacement is 26 and is still attending college, he doesnt work and my ex has moved him into her council house.  So as far as boundaries and responsibilities hes the type that lacks logic in the sense that, he sees nothing wrong with wanting to be a dad after only dating her for 2 months.  I personally feel that he is a door mat for her needs because at times I may have come across as someone who thinks hes better than others.  This was solely on the basis that, my ex used to bait me a lot, she would always say other men called her sexy (letting me know she didnt have to be with me) so my reaction was always highlighting my attributes when compared to others.  For example, bigger, stronger, more educated, more money, and thats just not me.  I at times tried to help her understand life for example, what are you going to do for a pension? what will the kids inherit? solely because I cared very much about her and her 2 children.  Id like to think I came across as a responsible adult who wanted the best for her children s future and her own.  She once said to me "I feel like a piece of... . next to you" So did she feel as if I was to good for her and this in turn made her loathe herself even more?  

Sorry I got that wrong Jammo. It's emotional blackmail to illicit feelings of obligation and guilt to stay in the r/s.


He's the rebound too?


She's emotionally blackmailing you again to illicit feelings of fear that you may lose her to someone else because she's sexy and attractive.



Do you think it may be competitiveness?



I think jammo1989 she lost a good man, she lacks impulse control and consequences of one's actions, you were looking at the bigger picture with pension and inheritance etc... .

BPD is unstable inter-personal relationship and patterns of self destruction.

Was she devaluating you?

You may of become a source of pain for her.

Seven months isn't all that long... . its reasonable that you are still recovering.

But with respect to healing, you may be largely avoiding it.  I've read your posts from the beginning and you mostly post to educate others on theories that you have developed about the disorder.  Think about how many times have you posted as an authoritative figure or offered to explain "BPD" to other members.  *)  It's all been about your expertise in mental illness.  It's kinda been a show - a mask.

Not a criticism, Jammo, I know you are trying - just a senior member's perspective - wake up call.

I don't think you have processed your feelings, asked perspective questions, dissected the relationship transactions (it wasn't just her involved in all that drama), or looked at yourself.

I think a good point for going forward is to accept that she was emotionally immature, the relationship was emotionally immature, and you have been emotionally immature - both in the relation and in your healing.  We all can start here.

Don't be afraid of this. If something is damaged or broken, the sooner you find it, the faster you will be back to health.

It will help to step back and see that you're not above it all. Sure you might have a better job and a better perspective on pensions - but there are areas where you struggle.

We all live behind a mask.  Sometimes, we have to pull it down and look behind.

Thanks again Mutt for your insight, yeah she was devaluing me because the day after we had that heart to heart conversation she dumped me the next day, bearing in mind that last weekend we spent together she was overly clingy and nothing would suggest a break up, we fell asleep holding hands, she told me how lucky her and the kids were to have a man like me, sex the lot, so as you can tell it really knocked me off balance because during the 2 days before she showed no signs of withdrawal towards me.

Hey Skip, yeah I agree we all hide behind masks but not to the extent a Cluster B would, Id like to think I offer a good insight and you are right in the sense that I try to explain to some of the newer members about Cluster Bs in general, but when we start to lean towards the FOG now and again even though I know some of the answers I cant seem to lock them in and analyse them, instead im left feeling down because I dont understand how or why this all happened the way it did, if that makes sense. 

You're trying and you been hiding behind a mask educating others on theories you developed.

This is painful stuff jammo1989.

I hid behind my mask too and it helps to pull it down and look behind it. I wanted to do the work because I owed it to myself with a series of dysfunctional r/s and then I met a woman with BPD traits and it was a lot of pain.

There are two sides to a medallion.

Do you think there was emotional immaturity with your part?

It'll help with making sense, healing and moving in the right direction.

We're here for you.

Skip:


Oh boy. That hit home.

jammo1989

I think you seem like a competent and solid type of guy who really did the right move when not complying into her demands of getting a baby. I know you know that too. But of course it hurts bad. Her doing what she wanted anyway with another guy who has given her nothing, I imagine it must be hard.

I'm like a week into my breakup, and I am a mess. And I am sure that oh no, he will stay single for a loong time, just as I will. Then I try to imagine the things you are telling, going from handholding sleeping tight, having the love, to a sudden breakup, to this rapid replacement. I stop breathing just to think about it. If my man, I mean, my ex, sigh, does that... . I don't know what I will do, how I will manage. I can feel the sky getting dark just by thinking about it.

I give you a warm hug    You didn't deserve that. It sucks. Take your time.

Jammo, respectfully, you have a lot of information, but not a lot of insight.  Its as if you're a police detective investigating a murder that you committed and you are obsessed with evidence that points to other suspects - and you discount all the evidence that points to you.  This man has lots of information - little insight.

Don't be offended by this. I'm just trying to toss a bit of cold water on you - wake you up - but I do it to help.

I've read a lot of what you've posted - its not insightful - its data to support a narrative that is comfortable for you.  Teaching it probably makes it seem more believable to you.  You have bypass all the textbook stuff to develop your own theories.  

I really think it would help to try a different approach.


I know.

But jammo when I saw your thread titled feeling frustrated.  In my mind I was like "heck yeah." Becuase it's such a huge shift away from pretty much all your other threads focussing on "cluster bs" or BPDs.  You acknowledged your pain... . That's the path dude! |iiii

Lean into your pain.

Thank you for all your replies it really does mean a lot! Yeah I think your right regarding the mask, i should admit and vent when its needed instead of acting like im not bothered by all of this.  Could I please ask for some advice please?

I was the one who told my ex that im done, and that i cant play these mind games anymore, so i rejected her, then as a few of you know she contacted me 3 months ago, in which after I emailed her she said you ok? And to which i replied with the print screen of the missed call from her, so in a way i rejected her again.  Do you feel that i would feel better if she was apart of my life again (feeling validated for who i was to her) or do you think the actual problem lies in my frustration.  For example, even if i wanted her back in my life, now that shes pregnant i cant let her back in even if i wanted to.

Jammo,

My take on what you have told us is that she was sabotaging and breaking up the relationship at the end.  She then connected with another man and is pregnant.  As you said, she comes from a highly abused background and she has the scars.

That's the situation. Game over, right?

Is NC helping you or hurting you? Would low contact be easier - less separation anxiety? You have to make that call because you have to manage it it.

Managing it means no expectations of her being reliable or consistent and having comfortable boundaries so that you don't get involved in things that you shouldn't be involved in.  Its important that you don't try to resolve the open issues you have about the relationship failing with her - that will be a disaster. The other man may complicate matters more.

But some contact takes the separation anxiety out and its been long enough that you might be able to do this now.

At the same time, let go of the thought that you rejected her - she blew up the relationship and moved on and she could have reversed it and she didn't.  Same thing with the phone call - don't see it as more than it was - an impulsive probe. You didn't pick up - it wasn't worth it to her to pursue it further.

LC might relieve some of the immediate tension.  You still have to sort out what happened (don't do this with her) to make sense of it all.

Does that help?

NC has helped me and in a way I thank her for doing, because if she didn't make the effort to block me, I would have been taken off guard by the pregnancy solely on the fact that if we were still talking, I like others would feel a sense of hope.  I really dont know how I feel Skip, I get frustrated knowing shes kept certain people in her life and not me.  For example she will happily have the chav whos been in and out of prison on her facebook, but the decent guy (me) is erased as if nothing ever happened, but in saying that being truly honest with you, I dont want to be part of her fan club.  For example, even while we were together she would tease me, then when I would reach out, she would say you know you want me but you cant have me, in a child like singing voice, what im getting at here is I dont want her having that ego boost.  She always said to me I dont know what it is about me but all my exes want me back, i must just be that good.  As you can see her low self esteem is validated through the attention of others in her case men.  I sometimes feel im in a battle with myself, one part of me is saying I dont care anymore what she thinks, I just want to feel as if I meant something to her (validation) then the other part of me is saying dont you dare give her the satisfaction of thinking see i told you you would come back.     

Jammo I can relate to the internal struggle you describe.

What I realized is that struggle was something I had internalized and existed completely within myself after the rs. It had nothing todo any longer with the reality of my ex. Her image, the orbiters, the enablers those were ideas that were in reality my own shadow I had been struggling with integrating into my narrative. My anger with "them," was anger with the vulnerable parts of myself.

An internal struggle.

Jammo,

Its not NC when she locks you out - its just being locked out.  *)

It sound like you want her to validate you... . tell you you're ok... . better than the guy that got her pregnant... . a good guy.

This is very codependent thinking - right?

And, this doesn't typically happen after a relationship fails... . any relationship.  

If you're upset that you're not on her Facebook page you are still deeply in the push and pull game.

So, yes its frustrating.  You still need her to give you value.

That's hard to shake.  Seeing it is the first step.

It takes time to detach and let go.  What can you do that helps you get there.  What will allow you to accept that she doesn't value you as much in the relationship as you value you in the relationship.  

That's kinda where this is stuck.

As you said earlier, you understand devaluation - so certainly you know that the more you want it now, the more devaluation that will drive on her end.  She's looking for you to value her - and that is constructed in you pining for her.

You are both trying to suck validation out of each other.   

Hey Skip, may I ask for an opinion on what you would rather as a person? this is solely based on me being entirely truthful regarding the pros and cons of being in and out of that relationship.

When I was going out with my ex I suffered from really bad anxiety, I couldn't drink alcohol because even after a sip it would send me into an anxious mess, I also spent every weekend at her house with the kids, so I didn't socialize with any of my friends anymore it was literally work in the week and see her every weekend.  Now this is what I find extremely strange and maybe you could help me on this, the day I told her i cant do this anymore, I rang my dad and I went for a few drinks with him to open up and talk about everything, I ended up drinking 6 pints of beer and the anxiety I once had wasn't present anymore, till this day I have not suffered from anxiety and I am also able to go out with my friends get drunk without any signs of the anxiety ever coming back.  I am now able to drink, rid of my anxiety and I have made a lot more friends since the relationship, why opinion to you is this.

Would you rather no longer have anxiety, be able to drink again and have a much bigger social circle?

or

Feel that intense love again, mind blowing sex and a relationship with 2 little ones you grew to care about a lot?


After thinking about it I think being rid of my anxiety is the best outcome here, why do you think i suffered so bad with it while being with her and not now?


Thanks again   

Jammo,

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I always learn. At 6 months out I can say I get little anxiety and I had major PTSD with him. Today I had to do business in his town. I took an anti-anxiety pill just in case.

I do not understand how to get over my ex totally. I go through periods of hating him. Then I remind myself that in his mind you can wrap up an 8 year r/s and an engagement in an email. It is easy for him. He has moved on.

Your ex sounds as though she needed security. Does she accept help and the more children she has the more she gets? Not trying to sound disrespectful but I have heard of women that do this.

Do you think if you had a baby with her you would be better off? What if it did not work out and you had to share your child with her?

Hey Downwhim, glad you enjoyed reading through this thread.  See this is the thing I could never understand, she would expect me to pay for everything, like eating out, take a ways and would try and manipulate me into buying her nice things.  For example, "oo I really like this necklace baby, what do you think? I think it would look really nice on me"  BUT when it came to wanting to be independent she would hate it if I offered to help her.  For example, I offered to pay for her driving lessons and she kept saying "No" because to her asking for help was extremely weird to her because she has never relied on anyone in her life as far as asking for help.  She was a foster child with a mother that physically abused and abandoned her and a father who was emotionally cold towards her, so being seen as independent was something she was forced to learn.  Where as in saying that, she has never had a job is on benefits and receives child support, so in reality shes not financially stable and lives her life through strict budgeting.

In regards to your 2nd question, I personally think that her wanting a baby goes a lot deeper than the financial support, one of the reasons why I personally think she wanted a baby was because at least 5 of her friends were all pregnant during this period.  Furthermore,  also think it has a lot to do with her dark past.  She had an abortion when she was 14 years old, and she once told me that at the start of summer each year I wake up in cold sweats, I have these dreams that In in a field of roses with this child that seems to look older after every year I have these dreams, she would also tell me how real these dreams felt to her.  I think that, because she has no family she wants to have her own little family and be happy, and thats fine, but she already has a 3 and a 6 year old and she only 25. 

I personally wouldn't be better off if i had her baby because I know what shes like with her ex husband, she uses the children as a weapon as to when he can see them and she will also try and get more money than needed some months from him and put it in her bank, so basically when you've been discarded these kinds of behaviors would only take advantage of the father.  She once said to me "What are we buying our kids for tea James"? Then realised what she said and was like im so sorry about that after smiling to herself, imagine her ex husband heard that? so hurtful!           

Jammo,

That explains a lot. She is still very young. She may even have more kids after this one. That is a lot to take on for anyone... .She may never work.

Thats exactly how i percieved it at the time, i really thought about it and it all makes perfect sense.  Here in the UK children start school ful time when they are around 3 and a half, and they start their term around June each year.  All 3 of these children are 3 years apart, the one thats being concieved in June, the 3 year old and the 6 year old.

I have 2 questions i would very much like to ask you, she always used to tell me, i dont want my babies to grow up, and ... . Isnt a baby anymore shes 3. 

Is she scared of being alone in the day, so she may have had another child as a means as an extra source of attention for when the other 2 are in school, or is this solely based on benefits? She even told me when i was being logical, I dont care if we have to live in a 1 bedroom flat, I just want your baby, i dont care if we struggle James, thats why i said no, solely on the basis that her other 2 children would suffer.  Her 2 children have their own rooms right now, my ex wanted to move her 3 and year old into the same room for the sake of the baby, that in my find goes beyond un fair its almost cruel.

My 2nd question, how can she afford to have another child, how does it work? For example, she has 2 children righ now, she has £400 benefits and £300 child support, she has to pay £150 towards her rent and her bills also include sky and a mobile phone bill. My replacment has moved in with her, hes still in college so he has no job and from what ive seen hes hoping to start university which would be 3 years, I also like to point out that now hes living with her she would have to pay the full rent right? I just dont understand how 4 people can live on less than £1000 a month.

Maybe they eat Ramen noodles or he comes from a boatload of $; who knows?  And I have to ask, is it your business?

It's as though you're still in a relationship with her, judging her, only from the outside looking in.

Looking at the 5 stages of Detachment, which stage do you find yourself in right now, today?

For me... .those thoughts never went away. Mine married the replacement. ... .and I am totally NC, but every once in a while she tries to "accidentally" run-in to me.?  I don't allow it.

I will never understand a sick mind and I know that I may have to live with those thoughts forever. I really understand how you feel. Wish I had an answer.

I have to agree with you Phoebe. My ex's relationship with my replacement is absolutely none of my business, (unless "I" want to torture "myself". My ex, during early abandonment, tried to start talking about her relationship (complaining... .yeah, right?), I politely told her that I did not want to hear any of that, please. I worked hard at not being part of the triangle that she wanted to create, and succeeded. Wish that I had known about BPD then. I was definitely wandering in the dark.

Jammo, I think us mothers look at 3 year olds and realize they are talking, walking, potty trained, they can feed themselves and are more independent (happens to be my favorite age) so, in that sense they are no longer babies. I get what she is saying.

I also think she has a lot of bills. She needs a man and/or another child to bring in more money.

I know you love her, I love my ex too BUT, financially and emotionally it would be tough. Also, kids grow up like mine have and they are expensive. She is immature and instead of being able to look at her potential she is looking outside herself (benefits/man). Just my opinion. Hope it helps.

hey Infared, how soon after did she marry the replacment? and yeah your right it is none of my businiess, but im trying to remind myself that i couldnt and would not want to live like that. 

Thank you for a female perspective on the matter, see thats what i thought as well benefits, she seems to go backwards after each relationship.  For example, her husband is in the army making £25,000 a year, she then got with me a guy in his 2nd year of university, then after i graduated shes now with someone whos in college and hope to attends uninversity.  I think your right, she wants the added financial security.  I even told her after the push/pull, i know your trying to trap me, and even my my family told me to be careful because she will trap you, so yewh i know deep down that i dodged a massive bullet.

The irony is that you are living like that today, vicariously, by concerning yourself with her affairs.

I don't know Jammo, I think you are not living through her, just trying to figure out why your not still there and reminding yourself how disordered she is. Sorting out. We all do that. We justify why we are not in the r/s anymore.

To be totally honest with you Phoebe, apart of me doesn't want to forget about her disordered ways towards me, I say this because, I dont want to be contacted in a few months or even years time acting like nothing ever happened, that would just prove that their not taking responsibility behavior works.  Im also saying this because, we were really close back in high school 10 years ago, I spent a lot of time with her, while others would say "Why you hanging out with her for?" She then went into foster care and I didnt hear anything since, then 8 years later, she starts liking all my pictures on Facebook (just broke up with her husband after cheating on him) I didnt know who it was at first, she was all like, its ... . going for a walk now but heres my mobile number text me :D So 8 years later she welcomes me back in her life and within those first 2 weeks she was texting me about 60 times a day and sending me explicit pictures.  I dont want her doing this again AKA coming back into my life years later.   

Jammo,

I'm a strong supporter of doing a postmortem. Its an important part of healing.

But there are two people to "autopsy".  You aren't really even doing one.

A postmortem is about what happened in the relationship. You are trying to analyze her life after the relationship.

Two words come to mind.  :)enial.  Attachment.

Look at this thread.  You dipped your toe (one post) into looking at yourself (more or less) then quickly its back to "analyzing and judging why is she living the life she is living now".

Why are you so disinterested in looking at yourself?  Why so interested in looking at where she is going?


Really?  All this is about teaching her a life lesson?  You are trying to analyze and predict when and how her life will fail and she will realize that you were the best thing for her?


... . and who has walked away and is pregnant with another mans baby (life changed).

Is this a choice you feel you have?  

It sounds like you are trying to decide on whether to get back into the relationship and at what juncture she will be most vulnerable to a rescue.

Not the worst thing, but if that is the case - own it. Go post on the staying board and get advice on how to get back in.  Or post on undecided and debate the merits.

And most importantly, as we do on Staying, start looking at who you are (were) in this relationship. Were you a healthy partner or a not so healthy partner and what needs to change with you?