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We've had discussions on this board over ED and sexual issues. Has anyone had experience with men taking testosterone? 

First, I post this with concern for my H. I know he is upset and worried, but after years of ED issues between us, he has found out that he has low testosterone. I don't think ( and certainly hope not) that there are any other problems. It is too low for a man his age ( we are both middle age).  For his health, and his feelings, I am concerned and hope he will feel better.

On the more selfish note, I'm angry too, because the ED issues have added to the emotional stresses, and over the years I was blamed for them, and also because, he was embarrassed about them, he would refuse to talk to me about it. I know this is a huge deal for men, and don't blame him for being upset. However, I've delt with my own self esteem issues from being blamed for it and also too many rages in the bedroom when he was triggered. The emotional impact of this is significant.

I'm also nervous about him being "restored" to his former self. I want him to feel better, and be healthy, but I know that I won't be included in the discussion about the treatment ( he has taken  the blue pill and not told me about it). I know I am letting my imagination go here, but I am concerned it will impact his temper, there will be more rages. We had too many years of me having sex with him so he would not rage at me. That was me being co-dependent then and I don't want to go back to that. One of my crazy fears is that he will take enough to restore himself to his 20's. I don't want to relive our early marriage years. He had painted me black and I don't want to even think about those times.  These questions are the type of questions I might be able to ask his doctor, but I know he won't include me in that.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the doctor might be thinking that he's going to restore us to the honeymoon era and I don't want that "man" back. It was no honeymoon. He has his moments now, but he was a nasty raging person then and I thought he was doing better with his rages now. Now I wonder if the improvement is lack of hormones and that medication will bring his temper back too.  It's a bit of a relief to know I am not to blame for his issues, but that isn't something he will likely make amends for.

Anyone have any experience with this? Did the testosterone make things better ( because if he takes it he will feel better and I want him to). Were there any mood changes?

hi,

could you explain "ED" ?

thank you !

Erectile dysfunction.

To explain further, it isn't non-existent, but the anxiety over it has made our intimate life difficult. I'm also post menopause. My idea of a loving partnership is that two people adjust to hormonal changes over time. It isn't all about quantity, nor is it about one body part.

I get that this is a big deal for a man. I have been sensitive about it. However, I've also had all the emotional stuff over it projected on to me. I've tried to talk about it but talking about difficult topics doesn't work well for us in general.

A while back he managed to get some of those little blue pills, but he didn't tell me. As I said in another post, I did notice. I realized it is an embarrasing topic, but I also felt that after 25+ years of marriage, he could have included me in the discussion, but I didn't understand about BPD at the time. This is why I am anxious about him getting testosterone and taking enough to give him the libido of a 25 year old man ( without telling me) and then getting angry at me for not being constantly available to him.

Also, I have noticed that he doesn't rage as much as he used to. I thought this was improvement. Now, I fear the testosterone will make him rage more.

Please take this into context as I care about his health. I would be happy if he felt better. It's just that our emotional and physical intimacy has not been easy and now this could change.  He is quite upset about finding this out ,undertandably, and I am concerned for him, but he's somewhat dysregulated over it and I am giving him some space emotionally to deal with that.

There are other concerns with testosterone replacement, including some things linking it to heart disease. (I know one man who was using it, was around 60, and I suspect was taking extra doses to deal with ED issues... .and died of a heart attack!)

It is pretty clear that his using medication to deal with ED issues when you and he already have a strained sex life isn't going to be any magic bullet.

Sadly, he sounds unwilling to have the sort of discussions about it that would be needed for you. Have you had much of any luck at asserting your own needs as a sexual person with him before?

My husband was diagnosed with low testosterone levels. I don't think he was given any kind of testosterone treatment as his levels weren't low enough.

Did your husband also have his thyroid checked? My husband has thyroid problems. I think the doctor put him on thyroid meds hoping that might bring up his testosterone levels.

Have you done any kind of research on testosterone treatment? It isn't a cure for ED. It might help. If ED is a result of something psychological, then it won't really matter if he is taking t treatments or not.

Here is an article about the pros and cons of it: www.news.health.com/2014/01/02/low-t-therapy-is-it-for-me/

Even if you don't get to have any input, you can do some reading and research to help you with your concerns.

Hi Notwendy,

hormones are complex. Testosterone is naturally decreasing with age. Levels are also affected by stress. Some hormones e.g. cortisol might be elevated due to stress but has also been found lowered in people with PTSD presumably suffering chronic stress. Hormones also affect each other. Understanding is not yet perfect to say the least... .

It is difficult to predict what will happen. There are concerns wrt. testosterone replacement and over diagnosis. Leaving that aside changes in hormone levels can affect behavior and it is only natural to be worried.

Rage on this board that I've seen is mostly associated with lack of boundaries either because there were never strong one in place or they have been eroded. Rage usually subsides when boundaries are put in place. And you got boundaries in place.

Let's assume he becomes somewhat more aggressive. Maybe more assertive first. You could step up your focus on boundaries. As long as they hold you are safe. It may take a bit more energy and may require playing Alpha Notwendy to counter his Alpha male behavior. He is feeling better and it may balance all out.

HRT should not elevate hormone levels to something that is outside normal human levels. But then sensitivity to hormones varies greatly. The dose may also be adjusted over time. He may need also some time to adjust to any level. Likely he changes behavior somewhat. Possibly he changes a lot and looses control. Would he and his doctor be open to you providing feedback on any changes you perceive?

His unwillingness to talk is, I think, related to his very low self esteem as a man. I don't know where that came from. It plays out in all areas. When we were first married, he acted super macho. Note that he didn't do this a much when we were dating. I was in school with plans for a career. Once we were married, anything that he thought a woman would do he refused: cooking, dishes, helping with the kids. I didn't know about BPD at the time. I kept arguing that doing a "man's job" ( according to him) like taking out the trash didn't turn me into a man, so doing the dishes would not turn him into a woman.

Sex with us has seemed to be partly proving his manhood. Once the ED stepped in, he would force the issue ( try when he couldn't) then rage at me. For me, what is sexy? It starts in the mind, with my emotions. He went through a time of expecting sex while painting me black. It was then I disconnected feelings from the act. I have not been able to reconnect them. Coupled with the ED stuff, it is so overriden with his anxiety and his self image that it isn't what I hoped it would be- a bonding experience. I have no interest in sex just for that.

The levels are low enough that he will need replacement for his well being. He isn't going to take it just to be superman. I assume that the doctor will choose the lowest and safest dose. I have been happier lately since it seems he isn't raging as much. I thought it was improvement. I know I don't know the future, but the old him is something I don't even want to remember.

Thanks for the input. His thyroid is fine. I personally think it is due to stress, or it could be age related, however, it is lower than normal for his age.

For me, I am past menopause and didn't choose to replace hormones. I know this will be between him and his doctor.

I appreciate the input about boundaries. Years ago, I didn't understand about PBD or boundaries. I am a different Notwendy now and so, if there are rages, I will not react the same way.

GK, I think one reason he took the medication was to ease his anxiety. He didn't tell me because he was embarrased. However, you are right that improving the function doesn't repair the emotions involved.

My bf has extremely low-T and ED issues. Unfortunately, he shares every little detail with me about it. The low T gives him fatigue to the point where he feels lethargic, sluggish, tired all the time. This made it difficult for him to get thru each day at work or concentrate on anything. His doctor recently changed his prescription upping the dosage a bit and he has more energy now, which has improved his mood.

The ED is related to side effects caused by Lexapro and Wellbutrin. He went off the Lexapro last summer and his ED vanished almost completely. He was happy. Then his depression came back and he started taking Wellbutrin again. Of course his ED returned, which made him more depressed. Sad irony there.

Jessica, that's tough. Antidepressants really take a toll on sexual ability. It's a shame that something for depression would cause something so depressing.

It's very sad. Men tie so much of their self-esteem to their sexual performance abilities. For men with BPD, low T and ED, it has to be even more devastating. So any improvement in this area has to be a positive, as long as he's taking the meds as prescribed. If it's any consolation I haven't noticed any increase in anger or rages since he's been on the higher dosage. Quite the opposite - increase in energy which seems to be bringing about a mild improvement in his overall mood.

notwendy,

I don't know anything about the medication he's taking, but there are usually side effects to all medicines.  I hope that doesn't happen with your husband.

I used to experience so much anger from my husband when I did not want sex.  Most of the time my reason for not being interested had to do with his nasty, negative behavior outside the bedroom.  For years, I overlooked that, though, and we had a very good sex life.  It was the accumulation and worsening of his behavior, however, that eventually made me want nothing to do with him.  So we have had a completely sexless marriage for five years.  

Like your husband, mine will not communicate with me about this.  I have explained WHY we no longer have sex, but he refuses to accept that his behavior has anything to do with it.  He sees nothing wrong with the way he behaves.  

So I admire you for being able to have a physical relationship at all given your H's attitudes about the issue, painting you black, raging, etc.  For years, I was able to separate in my head the way my H normally behaved  and the way he behaved when he wanted sex (he would suddenly become a different person a few hours before), but I got to the point that I couldn't handle that anymore.  It felt fake and manipulative.  He has no idea what I'm talking about, of course.  

You said that you started disconnecting from sex when your husband expected it even though you were painted black.  I totally understand that.  I experienced the same thing for a number of years.  It feels very much like you're being used. Interestingly, my H told me in a LONG letter he wrote to me four years ago that he always felt like he was being used, that he could have been anyone during sex, that it didn't matter to me that it was him. I tried to discuss this not long ago with him, and he shut me down quickly saying he doesn't know anything about this letter I say he wrote.  It was pages and pages and pages, single spaced, and he drove to my work to put it on my steering wheel.  But he doesn't know what I'm talking about. 

Could you talk to your husband's doctor about your concerns?  :)oes the doctor know about your husband's mental illness?  

Due to privacy laws, I doubt that she will be able to talk to her husband's doctor. Whenever I have wanted to let my husband pick up test results for me, the doctor made me sign a consent form that gave him permission to discuss my medical stuff with my husband. Doctors don't usually talk to the spouse unless express permission is given.

Does his doctor know? No, and I think that would be counterproductive. In the grand scheme of things, my H would be on the level of traits, not fully affected. This is in contrast to my mother who is at the other end of the spectrum. It was hard for me to see the connection as they are different from each other.

Where my H is most affected by dysregulation, projection and raging is at the most intimate level- ie with me. For my mother, she can hold it together much of the time in a social situation, however with her immediate family, it is a different picture all together. My mother also has other self destructive behaviors on the BPD spectrum that my H does not. His is emotional dysregulation and intimacy with the people closest to him. He keeps most people at a safe, emotional distance. He is good to the kids, but I deal with the emotional stuff. So it is exactly sex, love and intimacy that is the problem between us. We get along well as long as we talk about superficial things and I don't get into difficult conversations. If I say anything that he can construe as critical ( real or not) he will be triggered. Saying no to sex triggered a rage, but now I know that my  being codependent was making that worse.

I spent years wondering how two different people could be so alike in some ways. It took some time for me to see where my H's dysregulations and projections on to me were more about him than me. He would seemingly "go off" on me for things I had no clue about. Then I realized it was over his feelings which to him were fact.

"I used to experience so much anger from my husband when I did not want sex.  Most of the time my reason for not being interested had to do with his nasty, negative behavior outside the bedroom.  For years, I overlooked that, though, and we had a very good sex life.  It was the accumulation and worsening of his behavior, however, that eventually made me want nothing to do with him.  So we have had a completely sexless marriage for five years.  "


This is so much the case for me too, except that I was so codependent my own sense of self was not very strong. So I bought into his projections onto me. I was not doing everything he wanted in bed ( some things I had no idea about, but he had seen porn and I hadn't) Not that he told me what he wanted, I was just raged at for not reading his mind and doing it. He works with women and he would tell me that all the women at work would do this, ( not sure it it was true or not, that I wasn't normal, all kinds of strange things. I gave into his demands for many reasons: I know my parents had a sexless marriage thanks to mom's BPD and I was afraid to end up like her. Although I have been faithful to my H, he dug up info on my old boyfriends and freaked out- as if I had cheated on him. I felt so much shame for that. So, because I had a poor sense of self, my emotions and sexual responses are now pretty disconnected.  

If he had an ED event in the bedroom, it was awful. The first time it started to happen, he'd give me the ST or rage, blame me.  Although in a way I am relieved to have proof that it isn't me, I'm also angry for being blamed for it.

Vortex is right about confidentiality laws and they apply to anyone. My parents went to the same doctor. As my father got older, he gave the doctor permission to talk to me in case he could no longer communicate with me himself.  My mother will not give permission for her doctors to talk to me. So my parents' doctor could speak to me about my father, but not my mother.

Permission is needed for the doctor to talk to you, not for the doctor to listen to you.

You can write a letter or email to the doctor, you just won't know what the results are.

GK, I would do that if it was needed. We are also in marital T. He has asked me not to bring up ED issues. If I did, he would walk out. However, I could schedule a private session if I needed to.

I have done that with my mother's doctor. However, that backfired as then both my parents got angry at me for doing that. If one talks to the doctor, the doctor then has to bring up concerns with the patient and that can cause problems too.

I hope this goes OK but also, I am different now. I have the tools and the boundaries. I may need support here too.

How important is it for you to have a sex life with your husband?

It has been five years. If it goes another 20 are you OK with that? Is the battery operated boyfriend good enough for you?

Are you asking me or the other poster. We have not had a sexless gap, as I felt that would make things worse. Let's just say it is more difficult to achieve and not as frequent, but it isn't absent. It's the emotional bagage that has been difficult, but adding no sex would have made things much worse.

It is important to me, and since things have "slowed" down somewhat, it has actually been better than during the "black" years when no matter what I did, it was not enough for him. He does take the "blue pills" now and realizes that having sex is something that requires something different than before. What's also important to me is that we both realize that things can be good but not the same as when we were in our 20's as we are both over 50. What I'm afraid of ( and may not happen, I hope) is him turning into a raging bull with the libido of a 20 year old. lol

Notwendy,

This will most likely help his mood, focus and libido. Have both total and bound test values measured for a baseline starting point. 250 is the cut off for defined low t. He should have a total range around 700-1100 after treatment. If he goes this route, he needs to learn all about this. Most endos are idiots with the protocols they prescribe and clueless with estrogen management and hcg supplementation. Be warned.

Another easy option is off label Clomid. Depending on what area is not working,ie testes or pituitary, this could increase his total by 200-300 numbers and not require the lifelong maintenance of hormone replacement.

You can pm if you need more info.

Thanks, this is good to know. I do hope he feels better after he gets treated.