BPDFamily.com

My previous thread is https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274703.0.

    Well, after several days without posting, wanted to give an update since my wife has returned from her business trip.  Things have been going great.  There have been some moments that I could have gotten upset, but chose not to and show some grace.  

    It started when my wife returned from her business trip when we were on her way back to her house from picking her up from the airport on Thursday.  She seemed kind of short at times with me, and at the same time, talking with the kids a bunch.  I didn't show that it bothered me and just stayed quiet.  We got on the subject of Facebook and I asked if she had seen something on there that was pretty funny.  She said, "I thought you got rid of your Facebook."  I said, "No, I have been back on there for months and I wouldn't be able to have started a team page for softball without one."  She said, "Oh."  I knew she knew that but again, just let it go.     

   

    When we got home she had gotten the kids some gifts while away and gave the gifts to them.  It was a bit awkward when she didn't get me anything, but I just acted like it was no big deal and didn't even mention anything.  I think the kids noticed definitely noticed as they looked as if they were waiting to see what she got me, but when they realized she didn't, they didn't say anything either.  I think my wife noticed it from them because she said, "I want to take you out for your birthday to celebrate in the next few days and to show appreciation for staying here and taking care of everything."  I said that was very nice and to just let me know when she could do it.  She asked me to stay the night and I did and everything was great.

    Friday went great as well and we did something we haven't done in a long time.  We went to lunch and then went back to her place.  We spent some quality time together that afternoon and relaxed.  That night, we went to dinner as a family and had a phenomenal time.  My son wanted to spend the night so I took him back to my place.  

    We got up Saturday and were supposed to go to my son's baseball game but it was rained out.  We spent the afternoon with my wife and then had to drop our daughter and my son at my ex-wife's house to spend the night for my daughter's birthday party.  My wife invited me to my son's ROTC awards ceremony right after dropping them off and we went.  It was great to go as I haven't been to much of their stuff this year because of all the stuff that has gone on.  We talked about him going to college in a little over a year and her having to fill out financial aid forms in a couple of months.  SOmething hit me that her getting a divorce is a way to drop her income possibly to help with that, but not sure (just a thought).  I validated how big of a deal that was.  She then asked if I wanted to stay with her and us ride across town to the softball tournament together and I said that would be great.  We went to her house and went to bed.  

    We had a softball tournament yesterday morning starting at 8:00AM and had to be there at 7:00AM so I could get all the girls warmed up.  Everything went great and our team finished second out of our entire city and the 12 teams that were entered!  It was awesome!  After that, we went home and discussed how awesome it was that our 3 daughters made All-Stars and were looking forward to it and then me starting up a select softball team of my own and how good it's going to be for them to continue playing together.  We laid on her bed for a while last night with our oldest daughter between su and held hands.

    This morning she was telling me how proud she was of me and that she was looking forward to seeing me coach a select team.  Then a bit later, she texted and said her lawyer contacted her regarding the divorce and there are some things we needed to discuss.  I just said, "Ok."  I wonder if this even really happened.  It seems to me like it's definitely part of her push/pull game, especially after things that bring us closer together and to see if I will get triggered.  Then a bit later I texted about dinner and other things.

    This is where I still have trouble sometimes.  I still don't understand going forward with a divorce (if she even is)when there is obviously so much between us.  To me, this is so much more difficult.  I am so much better now than I used to be and don't get frustrated anymore with it, but still try and process it (which I can't).  For several months now, everything has been going extremely well for the most part between us with no dysregulations.  Things have actually improved since she filed (which to me is backwards).  We hold hands, are intimate, loving to one another.  She calls me "dad" or "papa" in front of her kids, tells me she loves me.  Now the kids are telling me they love me again, and honestly, I don't think they know she filed.  It is weird at times, but I like where my relationship is with them right now.  They see that I am stable, loving to them, take care of them and I think they are questioning quite a bit in their minds.  They probably question why I am still here!    lol  Anyway, I'm still taking it day by day.  I have people giving me unsolicited advice on several fronts at times about how to handle her and that gets frustrating.  People always think they know better.  

   

So my wife invited me over for dinner last night and at first, I was a little gunshy because of some of the divorce stuff she brought up that we "needed to discuss" and I agreed to discuss it by saying, "OK".  Regardless of me being gunshy, I went.  She didn't bring it up and obviously neither did I (I would have discussed it if she would have brought it up).  Whatever was going through her mind yesterday when asking me to talk about those things, those are her thoughts and I won't get wrapped up in them.  Last night was another great night as we went to the bookstore with the kids and went back to her place and spent some quality time together.  One day at a time.  

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

It is great to hear how things are going with the kids. 

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.     I feel like we play "house" (not in a fake way though), we haven't stopped calling each other pet names (honey, babe, etc.), we are intimate regularly, her kids tell me they love me, we get along better than we have in ages, but yet we can't admit this is a relationship or talk about commitment?   :) I don't get how they justify these things that don't make sense in their mind... .

Maroon, is it possible that by filing for divorce, she feels like she doesn't have to worry about abandonment (since she is doing the abandoning) and is therefore in a less stressed space? My H emotionally separated from me a while back, and I said nothing, just kept moving along with my life. He finally started accusing me of things I hadn't done to get a rise out of me, and when I did argue with him, he then said we should be room mates for the sake of our son, and he moved out of the bedroom. As soon as he did that, he stopped picking fights. He did everything I ever asked him to do, but would absolutely NOT do previously. Started doing things that nonBPDs just do as a matter of course. (like common courtesy). It almost felt like having been relieved of the responsibility of required emotional involvement, he could manage the rest of his life.

I've thought about this and think that is exactly what it could be.  It's still weird to me that it is "emotionally easier" to be in the middle of a filed divorce... .Someone I trust made the comment, "It's almost like she feels she has to blow everything up to fix it when healthy people try and fix it before it blows up."  It made complete sense in a nonsensical way. 


So how has it been going or how did it end up?

Gawd, this makes so much sense, in the way that nothing really makes logical sense in a pwBPD relationship. I would swear that my H used to pick fights so he could just blow off steam and then make everything OK. (Not realizing, of course, that each time he did that, I'd move further away emotionally)


Still working on it. He is still in the spare room (been about three months-that's when I found this site, thank goodness), still emotionally distant, but being nicer to me most days than he's ever been in his life EVER. (I suspect there might be some mid life crisis added in). He has started eating the food I cook again, yesterday even cleaned the pan from what I cooked because he was late coming home and the last one to eat; cooks me food sometimes (to the point of asking me if I'm hungry before he decides what he is going to make for himself); sits and talks with me or watches TV and only occasionally disappears without warning; takes the trash out without being asked; asks if someone else wants anything if he is going to get a soda; has stopped farting and laughing about it while we are all together watching TV; calls to say when he is leaving work; more that I can't remember right now. 

But I didn't play into his separation, either. There was nothing I could do, as what caused the initial outburst on his part was in his imagination and I have no idea what emotion it was coming from. So I just kept moving forward, being polite, validating, avoiding arguments (with the help of some great suggestions from here).

He has also finally realized that the job he is in is a dead end and is looking for another one (this job has been the bane of our existence, but he could not see it).  Getting a job where he is appreciated can only be better.

I remember thinking, it's like he needs to be cruel to be kind... .


Not me man, I was drawn like a moth to a flame lol   Gimme more, feels so right.  I gotta figure this out.

'Cuz it IS that strange and dysfunctional and bizarre!

The system/logic behind it, as Offroad and 123Phoebe are finding with you... .doesn't make it any less strange!

That's why it's called a disorder.

I can totally relate to this comment.


Still working on it. He is still in the spare room (been about three months-that's when I found this site, thank goodness), still emotionally distant, but being nicer to me most days than he's ever been in his life EVER. (I suspect there might be some mid life crisis added in). He has started eating the food I cook again, yesterday even cleaned the pan from what I cooked because he was late coming home and the last one to eat; cooks me food sometimes (to the point of asking me if I'm hungry before he decides what he is going to make for himself); sits and talks with me or watches TV and only occasionally disappears without warning; takes the trash out without being asked; asks if someone else wants anything if he is going to get a soda; has stopped farting and laughing about it while we are all together watching TV; calls to say when he is leaving work; more that I can't remember right now.  [/quote]
Yeah, my wife has in the last few months gone back to acting like a wife (majority of the time) and there is a lot more emotional closeness when we are together.  We talk regularly on the phone and on text, and the physical intimacy has resumed as it used to (2-4 times a week).  She now wants to take me out for my birthday.  I noticed the other day that when we saw a mutual friend at a shoe store, she tagged my wife and I both in a post on Facebook (my wife still has me blocked), and when that happened, my wife kind of backed off emotionally a tad.  I didn't let it bother me.  She can be standoffish in public at times and again, don't make a big deal about it or say anything.  What GK said earlier in this thread is basically what it is... .


Still not sure how long this can last realistically but will take it day by day.  She said we needed to discuss things regarding the divorce, but we haven't.  I think that was bait to try and get my triggered.  if that's the case, she failed.



I can relate to this too.  It's almost like they need us to build their self esteem.

The other day I talked about getting unwanted relationship advice and find myself getting triggered by mo own mother.  She is either BPD or NPD.  She really pisses me off.  She tells me I need to bring up the divorce all the time  to my wife and/orleave her alone until she gets help.  Tells me to divorce her and move on with my life.  I tell her all the time to leave me alone about it, stop talking about it, yet she pushes me to outright hate filled rage or just angry sometimes.  I hate it.  She did it to me today, and even though I didn't rage or get angry, I feel myself get triggered.  Everytime she pushes me to that point, she hangs up on me and makes everything out to be my fault.  Sometimes I want to cut her out of my life... .I am at the point where now I am in a "manageable" place with my wife and not wanting to have anything to do with my mom.   SHe triggers me more by telling me that my anger is all misplaced and should be directed at my wife... .My FOO sucks most of the time... .:)


Yeah... .it is bizarre.  What was that song about a decade ago called, I think, "How Bizarre"?   :)  


Yep.

I think failing to trigger nons helps balance the pwBPD. It's like they can feel more stable if we are more stable.


Got to love those FOO members with the disorder that caused us to end up with someone else of a similar disorder, eh? It's been weird for me, though. As soon as I found this site, my mother cannot trigger me anymore. When she asks about H being bizarre, I just throw up my hands and say, "It is what it is". and move on to some other topic. My favorite recent anecdote with my mother:

I took her to get a blood test and to pick up some medication. She spewed garbage at the person who took her blood (that woman had so much patience, and still almost lost it). She spewed garbage at me on the way to get the prescription. I didn't react. I started to get out of the car to get the prescription, and she was going to stay in it. I said : "Wait, let me roll down the windows so you can b!tch at the passersby." and went in to get the prescription.

And yet I don't feel like a terrible person... .

I can agree with this.  It's almost like she got triggered and was looking to me for stability in that moment.


Right?


I try and do that.  Now, I find myself where the conflict with my wife has been traded out for conflict with my mom.

During the day yesterday, I noticed my wife was pulling back on text and didn't dwell on it.  I asked her if she wanted to have lunch Friday.  We agreed last Friday when we were having lunch that we missed our Friday lunches together and the time we spend and wanted to start doing it again.  She responded that she was having a lunch with a friend from church.  I validated that I was glad she was doing that and glad that she had a friend she could do that with as that was always a desire of her heart.  Later, she had said that she was going to choir practice at church last night and hasn't been there in almost a month after joining like a month and a half ago.  I started to get the feeling that she was splitting because she had to be that "other persona" in front of these people she painted me black to for so long, but again, not worried about the why.  It's hard not to be though at times.  So yesterday afternoon, I stopped by to replace a swiffer wet jet and broom that broke while my wife was out of town.  When I got there, I noticed my wife "changed" a bit toward me.  She gave me one of those "friend" hugs where she pat me on the back and turned her face when I went to give her a kiss.  Again, acted nonchalant about it and she made the statement that she was leaving with our daughter to go run an errand.  She asked me to go and just said to take my car since it was halfway to my house.  I walked around a store with them for about 30 minutes while they looked at make-up.  Everything went ok and I was putting my arm around her in the store.  After they spent $400 dollars (yes, you read that right  .  I was shocked.  Is that normal for women?) on make-up, we left the store.  We got to her car and she asked what I was going to do and I told her, "Not much except relax."  She said ok and gave me that "friend" hug again.  We drove off separately and I called her to ask her if she wanted to watch a movie when she got home from choir.  She said that she would see how she feels and call me after choir practice.  I said, "OK, no problem."  She didn't. 

     This morning, I texted to say good morning and she was pretty standoffish.  I could definitely tell there was some splitting going on.  She texted asking about our divorce and I responded at first and asked, "Can you help me to understand why you continue on with the divorce?  Things are going well for us, the kids are happy and we can build from here together."  Notice I never mentioned counseling.  Her response was, "We've been through this several times, ML.  If you don't want to be involved in this process then I will do the best I can myself."  I responded with, "We agreed that we would split our tax liability 50-50 like two weeks ago.  As far as the other thing, I will need to think about it and get back to you."

     I'm a little down (not upset, not crying, just down) as it breaks my heart that she has to create chaos where there is none.  It's almost like she thrives on chaos and can't function without it.  She made the statement when we first got together, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I've learned that more often than not she creates the "shoe" and drops it.  She can't be happy for very long. 

     My mom and I had another difficult conversation.  She tells me that I'm handling things wrong (of course she does) and that I should tell her to finish the divorce and leave me the hell alone.  She said, "Watch how fast she comes running.  She thinks you'll put up with anything."  That isn't true, as I have held much firmer boundaries over the last few months.  My mom is so generous with the advice... .       

Sorry to be hard on you when you are down, ML... .but you took the cues from your wife the wrong way here.


Your first 'push' cue was the not texting.

Your next 'push' cue was that she tried politely to get out of lunch with you, without making an issue of it.


This was a stronger 'push' cue.


Another push cue when she politely said she would 'see how she feels'

And a stronger cue when she didn't call.


Yep, she's still pushing you away, and you still are chasing after her even now. Time for her to bring up the big guns and talk about divorce.


 Sorry man, it is tough that she has to create conflict to push you away. But you are part of the problem here. Look at it this way:

She is feeling something (purely inside herself, has nothing to do with you!), and her solution is to take space, push you away. She's mentally ill, and cannot ask for it in a straightforward, kind, and productive way. She plays games instead.

What do you think would have happened if you had simply noticed that she was holding back on texting you... .and decided that this was about her, and not pursued her, waiting for her to come around on her own?

What if you had not even reminded her about the Friday lunch thing?

What if you hadn't tried to kiss her when she'd already given you a 'friend' hug?

What if you hadn't invited her to watch a movie?

Do you think she would have needed to bring up the divorce issue with you again?

You kept coming back at her, so she kept beating you off with successively bigger sticks.


   

How about enforcing boundaries with your mom?

I'm thinking "I won't discuss my marriage with you" would be a good one. It is real simple, if not easy... .


If she changes the topic back to unwanted advice, politely come up with a reason you have to go right now, and say goodbye.

She'll figure it out.

No apology necessary.  Already thought about it.  I did at first, but felt rejected a little.  Don't know why I went back to that.  Obviously I still have some growing to do in not taking it personally.  Beating myself up about it... .Feel like a failure somewhat.  Still hard to not take it personally when the push away the person that loves them.


 

Yep... .Feels like two steps backward... .Even though there is no dysregulation involved... .

Hey Maroon, don't beat yourself up over it--what she is doing is f***'ed up, and the best ways to deal with it are unnatural and uncomfortable. You're kinda stuck in a really difficult situation now, with no clean ways to a good, normal, healthy relationship, without abandoning kids that are very important to you, and a woman you care about a great deal.

BTW, when I said sorry, I wasn't apologizing for pointing out your part--I was saying that I'm sorry you're stuck dealing with her part. 

|iiii Take a moment to pat yourself on the back for how much better you are doing than you were before.

Even this time, you kinda knew you were backsliding a little... .and that kind of awareness will help you do better tomorrow.

It is really hard to not take it personally. And you just can't manage it all the time.

Maroon, did she know you were coming over with the swiffer, or did you drop by unannounced?

 

Maroon,

 

I think you may feel better if you find a part of your life to improve.  It seems you have figured out that you will have a "non-r/s" r/s with your wife.

I think you are getting the hang of patterns... .hopefully you can notice things a bit earlier. 

I was struck about the mom situation... .

I'm a guy with a "difficult" mom as well.  Mine trys to play really nice... .put a nice face on it... .but she is high maintenance.  So... .I've got to a place where I spend the time I can stand around her... .(we live in same small town)... .and I don't worry about the rest. 

One thing that did me a lot of good (before I even knew what boundaries were... .years ago)... .is I stopped accepting advice from my mom. 


I still ask and accept advice from my Dad... .it is rare he brings something up without me asking.

So... .I've got a lot of kids... .so there are lots of things for grandparents to think about and give advice on.  My tagline was "I appreciate your input... .I'll consider it as I make a decision... ."   Maybe not the best thing... .but I was consistent... .and I think she figured it out... .because I can't remember the last time I got any advice from my mom.

Here is the thing... .I would recommend that your response not be about the "issue"... .but about unsolicited advice in general.

Any thoughts on how you could word that? 

Reasons why I bring this up:  Formflier's law of energy... .  You only have so much... .your primary r/s is consuming a lot of it... .and that r/s is important to you.  So... ."reserve" a bunch of energy for your primary r/s.

So... .that means you are going to have to "take" that energy from your r/s with your mom... .and give it to another place in your life.

I would be a big fan of giving it back to you... .I'm a bit concerned about putting more energy into your primary r/s... .that it would look like chasing.

FF

Yes, she knew as we talked about it earlier yesterday and told her I was bringing it by after work.

Tonight at softball, everything was fine.  My wife bought me some dinner that I ate right before the game.  After the game, as I was walking back to my car and my wife was telling me that my 6YO son got the first unassisted double play ever in his division tonight while I was warming the girls up for their game.  We were done talking and my wife started to walk to her car in another parking lot and my car was really close.  I was putting my stuff in the car and she walked up to me and I said, ":)o you need a ride to your car?"  She said, "No, but we need to sit down and talk about some things and get them resolved.  You didn't call me back after lunch."  I responded with, "Yeah, sorry about that.  I was really busy at work trying to get some projects done.  I'll be glad to sit down with you and get that done."  I said it very calmly, honestly and without any tone.  I guess that wasn't good enough for her because she walked off without saying another word.  I don't understand why she feels the need to try and start something after softball.  I didn't bite on her crap.
I don't give myself enough time, energy or self-love.  I struggle at times.  I struggle in times like this because I question is this worth it.  I love my wife and feel her and my kids are, but it's hard.

 

This is a struggle I can have as well... .

Only advice I can give you... .is there is something that works along these lines.  "If you aren't loving and respecting yourself... .somehow... .others pick up on that... .and won't love you either... ."

Or.

Others will follow your lead on how to treat you.


I'm assuming that your mom's input and advice is unsolicited... .correct?

FF

Good point... .


I don't ask her for her input, I was just telling her what was going on.  She would "freely" give it... .

     So, a few minutes ago, my wife calls me here at work and starts in on me.  Because of our tax liability, the IRS is changing our withholding.  They changed mine a few weeks ago and I told them what was going on with us.  She didn't get notified and they changed hers and she is getting 600 dollars less a paycheck.  She asked me if I gave them her new address and told her yes.  She asked me, "Why are you negotiating with the IRS on my behalf?"  I told her I wasn't and that I was doing it on my behalf.  I told her I was at work and would call her back. 

     I can tell she is pissed.  OH FREAKING WELL!  I'm going to tell her that she wanted our bills split and therefore I'm not responsible for her.  Now, if she goes through with the divorce, she will also be hit for $600 dollars in medical a paycheck plus expenses up to $4500 for deductible for her family.  It's amazing that she made all these decisions for 10 months and tried to cut me out,and she is having to live with them.  Yet she is trying to blame me... .I won't let her.  She will just use this to try and further paint me black.

Not good enough? I don't that as the issue here... .

It seems to me that she is looking for an excuse to blame you, paint you black, push you away, and throw the divorce in your face.

You aren't giving her an easy opening to really launch into you. (Good for you!)

You aren't giving her an answer which is 'good enough' to convince her that her feelings/needs are messed up, and she should reconcile with you because you are a wonderful person, and she's ready to stop screwing up a good thing she had with you. (And it isn't possible for you to say anything which will do this!)

Whups, didn't see the stuff 'bout the IRS. Don't see anything for you to do, except prepare to end conversations which become abusive... .and stop trying to reach out on any personal level 'till this current triggering financial problem for her settles down.

It seems that money is very triggering for her.

  Hang in there, and don't let her take you for too much of a ride.

   

Hang in there!

She was angry because you didn't call her back, and she was anxious about the money, so she had to try to start something. Good for you for not biting, but it wasn't very considerate not to call her back. (This is a sticking point in ANY marriage) Go ahead and keep agreeing to getting things "resolved", but leave it to her to actually set it up and get it done. Since you don't care about it, you don't have to worry about the logistics of anything.

Offroad... .I agree she was probably upset that I didn't call her back.  I couldn't help it.  How many times has she not called me when she said she would.

I just got off the phone with my wife trying to discuss the tax situation and a 401k loan she took out a couple of years ago for a business we got involved in.  She started yelling at me and I told her, "Wife, I won't be yelled at.  If you yell at me I will hang up."  She mocked me and cussed at me so I hung up.  She called back and I calmly answered and said, "I will gladly discuss this with you if you are calm."  She said, "I'm trying to discuss this and work this out."  I said, "OK, and that is my goal too."  I told her we agreed together to split the tax debt 50-50.  She said with a tone, "We didn't agree to anything!"  I said, "We sat in your office at your house and we came to that agreement."  She said, "No, we talked about it."  I responded with, "I took that as we came to an agreement on that."  We started to talk about the 401k loan and she was accusing me of sticking her with the whole thing.  I told her, "Wife, we were paid back for that business when we sold it, therefore, I don't feel I owe anything."  She said, "We spent it."  I said, "Yes we did, but that doesn't change the fact we were paid back for it."  She started to dysregulate and threatening to stick me with the whole tax debt.  I calmly responded with, "Wife, I won't stay on the phone with you if you are going to threaten me.  You and I both know that we are equally responsible for the tax debt and you admitted to an error on your part the first year or two.  I won't stay on the phone if you continue to threaten me"  She hung up on me.  I stood strong.  I was proud of myself.  Afterwards, she tried to say I wasn't a man of character and use the Bible against me on text.  I didn't respond.  She then had our daughter (or my wife from her phone which is more likely) text and say she wasn't feeling good and wouldn't be at practice tonight.  Funny how when you use truth and facts against them they get pissed and fold.  I didn't back down one bit and more importantly I stayed calm, firm and loving in the conversation!  I responded to my daughter and said, "Sorry to hear that.  See you in the morning.  Love you and feel better.

 

Dealing with factual business decisions... .where facts outweigh feelings... .seems to be tough/impossible for pwBPD.

Similar things are happening in my r/s... .I've made peace with it... .and I'm extricating myself from business relationships with my wife and her foo. 

I'm glad you stayed calm... .

Oh yeah... .the discussion versus agreement bites me all the time.  Unless it can go in writing... .not much can be done about it.

Hang tough... .FF

Your poor daughter. Have you thought to actually CALL your daughter and hear from her own lips that she isn't feeling well or going to practice?  Make sure she really doesn't feel like going or want to go and isn't sitting there wondering why she isn't going to practice. Yes, I am paranoid when it comes to kids.

She will not answer the phone.  I've been through this many times.  This is my wife's MO.  She never did this to their bio-father.  She has done it to me though who is actually there for them.  It's sad.  My wife thinks she is hurting me when she is actually hurting our daughter who needs the reps and is hurting our team.  We have a tournament in the morning.

So yesterday morning, my wife brought our daughter to the tournament.  We were at this thing from 7:00AM yesterday until midnight last night.  Anyway, my wife acted like the conversations on the phone from the day before never happened.   . She was nice, flirting at times, came and sat on my lap, and even invited us to lunch between one of our games.  It still boggles my mind their behavior sometimes from one moment to the next.  I guess when they are dysregulating or feeling out of control, they look to us to be even keel and in control.  Whatever triggered her from the day before and by me holding my ground, it must have subsided.  No matter how many times you go through it, it doesn't get any less weird!   :)

Adding to what happened yesterday, our daughters wanted to get together and swim today.  My wife texted and asked if it was ok.  I said of course and that our daughter was welcome anytime.  She brought our daughter over and for the first time in 10 months of living here, my wife came in!  It was weird at first.  She asked about my new TV  :), and was surprised she didn't say much about it.  She looked around my apartment since she had never seen it.  She had a few minutes and went out by the pool with me to watch the girls swim.  We sat out and talked and enjoyed the breeze.  After a bit she had to leave and we agreed to have dinner tonight. 

    Dinner last night was great.  We laughed and had a great time as a family.  On our way back to her house, she was telling me about the "Solo-Parenting" class at church she went to for the first time earlier in the day.  She was telling me a story about one of the ladies that spoke and I validated her story and how heartbreaking it was.  I'll be honest, when I think about her going to this "class", it almost ticks me off, almost.  I know I'm not the kids biological father, but they call me dad and tell me they love me.  I feel like she is living a lie to these people and they validate those lies because they don't know any different, and to be honest, it hurts a little.  She can go to this big church here in town and have this huge support system, join the choir, and bottom line, it's all based on a lie.  It's obvious they haven't done their homework on her because do you allow someone whose life is currently in dissarray to be involved in ministry?  Please understand, I'm not jealous.  It's just hard to understand how a woman passes herself off as "single", or whatever it is she tells them (Not sure  ), and then comes home, tells me she loves me, calls me "dad" in front of the kids and we continue to be physically intimate with one another.  I ascribe to the scripture that says, "What is done in secret will always be brought into the light." and why I don't do much about it.  Kind of like us seeing that lady we both know at the shoestore about 8-9 days ago.  She is friend of both of us on Facebook so I'm sure she had questions and posted on there that she saw us together.  It was the next day she started pulling away. 

    Anyway, we went back to her house and together we folded some clothes and did the dishes.  When I started helping her fold clothes, she said, "You don't have to do that."  I responded with, "I know I don't have to, I want to." I have said this multiple times to her (we always would take and communicate while doing chores together).  While folding clothes, my television came up.  She said, "Why didn't you put that toward the washer and dryer, or taxes?"  I didn't respond and our daughter walked in and asked a question and that totally went away.  You gotta love kids!   :)  My first thought when she said that was, "Your going to ask why I didn't put that toward taxes or the w/d, yet you've been on a cruise, another vacation, and last week spent $400 dollars on make-up and not put anything toward them either?  Seriously?"     It never ceases to amaze me the double standard in their mind sometimes.    

    Moving on, our son needed to be picked up and while she was doing the dishes, I offered to go pick our son up from work.  I got back and she asked if I wanted to watch a movie in the living room (our daughter asked if she could sleep in her bed with her last night) and I said, "Sure".  We sat together, watched a little bit of it and she fell asleep.  I woke her up a bit later and told her I needed to head home.  We hugged, I kissed her on the forehead and left.  

Well, had a rough conversation with my wife and lost it.  I didn't fly off the handle or anything, but JADE'd, and JADE'd and JADE'd.  I found myself chasing my wife and feel ridiculous... .I feel pathetic.  My wife was trying to bait me today with the divorce.  I was doing well with it all morning.  I was standing strong and never backed down from saying I wouldn't be responsible for her 401k loan.  Several times, I didn't answer her texts right away (was in a meeting the first time and took time to think about how to answer after that) and could tell she was going through an extinction burst with a few minutes later when I didn't answer she would text with "?".  The third time I didn't answer her right away she called me and I was at lunch and called her back.  She said, "You are ignoring my texts for long periods and not answering me and we have some important things to discuss."  I said, "I'm at lunch.  I know that it is important to you to discuss these things and will call you when I get back to work.  I'm not ignoring you, just have been putting out fires this morning."  Her response was classic, "I never said you were ignoring me."   lol :)   How do they not hear themselves?  She said, "Who are you at lunch with?"  I said a friend.  She said, "Who?"  I was thinking to myself, "What the heck does it matter?", but responded with their name (A guy I always go to lunch with).  She had this tone and said, "Well, when you get back, and if you aren't putting out any fires and if you have time, call me."  I said, "I will."

    I got back to work and called her from my car.  She said she wanted to discuss the rest of the items to get them resolved.  I said, "Can I ask you a question?"  She said, "Sure."  I said, "Why are you now in such a hurry to get a divorce?"     Can't believe I went there.  She was trying to trigger me all day and I bit.  She said, "Why should I do something different?  We lead separate lives, you don't come to my kids things, I don't go to your kids things and all you think about is yourself."  I said, "We lead separate lives because you chose that, I don't go to the kids things because you don't invite me, and I invite you to my kids things and you decide at the last minute to not show up, and of course I think of myself first now.  Since you got a house behind my back and I then had to live on my own, if I don't who will?"  She said, "I moved out because you pushed me against a wall."  I said, "You know as well as I do that I did that to keep you from continuing to punch me."  She said, "I was defending myself."  I said, "Whatever!"  She said, "I have asked for counseling for years, and you are untrustworthy by keeping the taxes from me... ."  I interrupted and said, "But yet, when I make the appointments, you didn't show up."  She said, ":)id you?"  I said, "I sure did and had to pay the co-pay on them also.  As far as the taxes, we were both aware of where we stood, but now that can be a convenient excuse for you can't it?"  She said, "So if I'm abusive and I won't show up to counseling appointments, why do you want to stay married to me?  I'm obviously a horrible person!"  I responded, "No, you're a good person and I'm sorry you feel that way about yourself.  I love you and want to be here for you and the kids.  I've always felt that way and that has not changed."  She said, "No, I'm a paycheck and someone you can have sex with.  (Projecting much?)  For years I was the only one that was here for you and loved you and was a good wife to you.  Well, not once in a year have you asked me what you could do to make our marriage work."  I said, "Ok.  What can I do to make our marriage work?"     Can't believe I went here either!  I feel disgusted.  She said, "Nothing, it's over!"  I said, "You know what?  When you separated from me, you told me you just needed some time to get things straight so that we could work on our marriage.  (I started crying here) That was obviously a lie.  You never intended to get back with me.  You lied."  She said, ":)on't tell me what I did or didn't do.  You don't know how I felt... ."  I said, "No, I know by your actions.  My actions have been a man who wanted to work things out with his wife and bent over backwards at times to be there for her.  You just don't like that I'm not a pushover anymore."  She said, "Look, I just wanted to see if we can work this out amicably, and do what is best for our kids and be friends.  But since we can't, we will have to go to mediation.  Best of luck to you ML."  She then hung up on me.  

    I realized I walked into a trap.  I'm so tired of the up and down.  I'm not even mad.  I don't know where her problem is coming from and don't really care.  I'm tired of the one that's being dumped on, and on some level, I guess I'm allowing it... .I don't know.  Not beating myself up, and actually forgiving myself for taking a step back today (again!).  I am proud of myself for saying I will not be responsible for her loan.  I'm not backing down and it drives her nuts I think.  SHe was even trying to lay it on thick about how my ex wife took me to the cleaners in our divorce.  Another thing, I see all these threads pop up of their loved ones getting itno therapy and my wife won't go anywhere near it.  It's frustrating as hell!  It's almost like she wants to be mentally ill. The truth is she probably thinks everyone else is mentally ill.  Thoughts?

 

Hang tough! 

Tonight is a new night... .tomorrow a new day.

 

I've bitten on a few things lately that I shouldn't... .didn't control myself very well.  It happens.

We're human.

FF

I am definitely hanging tough and at times, I don't know how I survived this long!  It still seems to me she is trying to get me to bend by talking about the divorce.  It just gets old at times... .I have a really difficult time with the part of her mental illness that keeps her in turmoil and unhappy to the point of throwing her life away.  it is very sad... .Last night, she was complaining about our daughter's friend's mom who is getting remarried and ripped her to shreds because the guy she is marrying is telling her daughter that she has to give up her dog because it has bladder problems and also she ahs to change schools two years before graduation.  She basically said, "I would tell him that he would have to wait until my daughter left for college before I would marry him.  WTH would give him the right to tell my daughter she can't keep her dog and have to switch schools?"  I thought to myself, "The man whose house they are moving into and I applaud her for being a submissive and supportive wife!"   :)  I obviously kept my mouth shut.  I validated how hard it would be on the daughter to give up the dog, but I'm not going to bash the mom or the step-dad for that.  That right there tells me it is always about control with my wife.  She can't stand not being in control.

  Sorry you got such a triggering fight about divorce/money/etc.

May I suggest a boundary to enforce next time your wife tries to bait you? Come up with your party line, put it in your words... .and state it once, and then hang up to get out of a circular argument.

1. Having separate finances from you is working better for me. I'm will keep my finances independent of yours.

2. I love you and enjoy your company.

3. I love (her kids, by name) and care for them, and want to be involved in raising them. My kids love you want to spend time with you and your kids.

Just have these sort of statements ready. So if she asks you why you bought a TV instead of paying for the W/D, you can say "I'm not responsible for the w/d. I chose to spend my money on a TV." (Conversation ended)

You don't have to explain WHY (as in JADE all over the place), simply state that it isn't your responsibility, and you chose otherwise.

Thank you.  I'm still in awe at times how they refuse to take any responsibility.  NONE!  I still have trouble with the black one minute and white the next.  She can't stand when I stand up for myself.


I do tell her those things, I just get pulled into a circular argument even though I know I'm in it and it is so hard to stop.  The "divorce" talk is triggering for me as I am a good husband/father.  I feel like it was another extinction burst because I won't back down and take responsibility.  When she said, "You have not once in a year asked what you could do to work on our marriage... .", truthfully, I almost couldn't handle that one... .She's done everything in the book to make sure repairing didn't happen... .

Another thing I really struggle with is how I go from being "dad" one day to a divorce in the next breath at times.  It boggles my mind how they decipher that code into something that makes sense... .last night at the girls first all star practice, my wife and I never spoke.  She actively ignored me and I acted like she didn't exist or that I didn't see her.  It worked for me. 

Maybe some RA needed... .it will not make sense.

What makes more sense is to look at longer term patterns... .trying to make a single event or conversation "make sense"... .probably not a good plan.

FF

Maroon, I think one of Grey Kitty's suggested "statements to have ready" at all times is one that you might get great benefit from:


Now that financial issues are ebbing as a flashpoint in your relationship with your (STBX?) wife, the battleground seems to shift to the children and your love for them and your strong motivation to be a family that includes all children hers and yours. In an unhealthy game like this one, this is your "weakness." (In normal circumstances, of course, it is a strength, a value, a virtue.)

What if you step away from battling this issue too? I mean, exactly as GC has proposed above. If you do an experiment and decide to call her children only by their names, rather than appearing to hold any ownership over them.

It's tragic that your wife cannot seem to see the real you and the genuine nature of your love for both her and her kids. But there it is, I think. She seems to feel some threat from you, still.

I just noticed something I'd missed or glossed over in reading your posts:


There's a lot going on here that's out of your control, and you might need to be really careful for your own safety at this time.

I agree with his assessment here.


It's extremely sad and it breaks my heart in two.  I love her unconditionally.  it's sad that she can't receive it or doesn't understand it.


Explan what you mean here... .

My wife just texted me (after not speaking since the deal late yesterday) and is trying to bait me again with divorce and decree talk.  Good God... ... ..Can she give it a rest already?  I haven't reponded... .I feel very triggered right now and just sitting here with it.  I hate this feeling... .

 

Double up your efforts to not take the bait... .!



FF

I'm worried that whatever is going on with your wife might be coming to a climax of some kind. That anything you do now can be misinterpreted as aggression or a plot of some sort. And, if somewhere in her mind, you are already guilty of domestic violence against her, then if you two are alone together as a couple again amidst all of this tension, something could snap in her and she could have you arrested. . . . I mean just out of a pure mental meltdown (whether one might call it "dissociation" or "psychotic episode" or something else.)

Hope I'm wrong, but you are so committed to a family relationship with her that you do not yet want to step back and take real distance, and so I fear something worse yet could still happen to you. Especially if she feels you are invading her space in some way. Especially just now.

A surprising thing one can learn from this forum is that men who are beaten by their wives are at increased risk of arrest for domestic violence.

ADDED: This is my long-winded version of saying "double your efforts to not take the bait."  

I agree. Double your efforts not to take the bait. Keep a recorder on you at all times (Yes, I am paranoid, but this has saved my hash a few times in various circumstances). Talk to her only if absolutely necessary. It's up to you, of course, but I wouldn't get into any divorce or decree talks. I'd only do it in front of lawyers or a mediator at this point.

You need to find some way to detach with love to help keep you from being triggered.

I don't know how old your wife is, but she could be heading into some kind of mid life crisis. If she is, NOTHING you can do will help.

I'm trying.  I just want to lash out.  I hate that she keeps doing this.  I didn't speak to her last night at softball because I didn't want any conflict.  This feeling of being triggered, and a feeling of "Is this even worth it/working" sucks!  I'm just trying to do the right thing and I feel like it's making it worse at times... .Or at least it seems that way.  And if I don't answer, I feel guilty.  Her text was basically about "finalizing the decree" and "dropping the 401k deal also"... .    ... .I want to respond and say, "Half of the crap you have in your house belongs to me because you basically have control of everything."  Just trying to let it sit for now.  She knows I will never agree to it the way it is... .I'm pretty angry and hurt right now and I can't figure out why.  I wasn't this way yesterday until during the phone call.


I have already thought of this.  She is 49 and I just turned 38 about a week ago when my wife was out of town and I was keeping the kids... .She is supposed to take me out for my birthday this weekend... .red-flag... .That was before all this blew up... .

 

Do you have a recorder app on your phone?

I'm assuming that you keep your phone locked... .correct?

FF

Yes, I do on both counts... .What do you think is going on?

I have believed this is the case for a while now... .


She uses this as a defense mechanism to not have to confront her own demons in this area, but she probably believes I did in some twisted BPD way.  It absolves her of any responsibility.


I can see your point here... .She has threatened to call the cops several times over the years... .

My "party line" statements had a recommended usage model, which perhaps I didn't make clear:

If she brings up finance/divorce/other crap, and projects crap onto you. (you don't see her kids events... .because she doesn't tell you, and she leaves that out.)... .here is the program:

Tell your truth. ONCE. Then stop talking about it. Hang up or go home if you have to; you probably will at first. (That is how you don't take the bait!)

Your goal is NOT to convince her of anything... .other than that you won't get into an argument over it with her, and that you don't buy her stated positions. If you try to convince her any of these things... .you lose... .badly.

The more consistent you are, the sooner she will give up on picking these fights with you--she will realize that it is the same as hanging up on you when she turns this into a fight, and it doesn't get her anything she wants.

What Grey Kitty says^^^ State your position once and only once. (This does not apply if she is already off the rails. There is no point in stating your opinion at all if that happens.)

Do NOT allow yourself to get sidelined onto another topic. This is the hardest thing to do. In the heat of the moment, you don't notice they just shifted gears because you get busy defending yourself. They KNOW this. The best thing you can do is just detach yourself from  what they say. If you can pretend they are speaking about some third party, not you, then you can weigh the validity of what they are saying and respond accordingly.  Basically, don't take it personally. It feels personal, but it really isn't. It's about them and their problems, not you. You have to decide what is best for you, and if you don't want to talk divorce with her, don't. Your life, your choice.