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Hi All,

I am 43 days LC after a 7 mo relationship with my uBPDexgf which I had to leave. I had mentally and physically wasted away to nothing. We had one recycle 1.5 months prior to the breakup. I cannot go full NC because we work together.

We have had some sporadic contact recently and she has been much more friendly.  Telling me I made the right decision to leave and asking me how I am doing.  Until then she basically ignored me.  And me her.  I have remained professional while she has done some hurtful things here.

I don't know her motives and I'm not trying to say they are bad.  But the contact is pretty stressful for me and I feel myself slipping back to seeing her as a victim.  My T suspects that she is starting to work on a recycling attempt.

Anyway after getting great advice here and at the recommendation of my T, I want to toughen the LC by asking her for no more personal contact.  Only contact would be as co-workers.

I am looking for advice on the best way to tell her.  Here is what I am planning to send to her personal email after working hours:

-----

exgf, thanks for your concerns this week but I ask that we have no more personal contact.  I have had to move on from having any kind of personal relationship with you and I think you should do the same.  Please know that I will definitely be a good co-worker as I always have.

-----

This obviously could be awkward and I worry about what she might tell our co-workers.  I have a great relationship with everyone and I don't that to change.

I don't want to hurt her but I want to give myself the ability to recover.

Thanks so much for any advice you can give.

  Your email message to her sounds completely reasonable and professional. What could she say to your coworkers that would be a problem?

I can relate to your concerns about "slipping back to seeing her as a victim." My ex recently reach out to me after 28 days of n/c and it stirred up a whole lot of feelings that I was just beginning to get over. I think the action you are considering makes a lot of sense. I also have a lot of respect for the difficulty that working with your ex must cause for you emotionally.

Thank you Dunder. I left something out. If she asks the reason my T suggested that I don't answer. So we don't start some hurtful back and forth. I fear she may tell people he won't be friends and won't tell me why.

Hey Simpleman,

Kudos to you for working hard to take such good care of yourself.  Good for you!  

I am just thinking out loud here... .but just wondering... .is this necessary?  Haven't you been doing LC for a while and were not giving her eye contact for some period of time.  Then she started coming around more often.  Can you simply go back to what you were doing?  

I am curious since you work together and you worry about what she might say to co-workers.  :)o you need to tell her this so overtly?   Would it be possible to simply "do" this without "saying" it?  

When my UxBPDbf went into stalking/harrassment mode, I did lots of research.  Many advised me towards the conventional wisdom of getting a restraining order.  This didn't feel right and I was pretty sure it would escalate things to an irrevocable degree.

The alternative line of thinking is do not respond/do not engage.  One wise police Lt said "it is kind of like leaving food out for an animal.  If there is no food (in this case, no response), the animal quits coming around."  Although it took 4 months and 450 contacts, my ex did quit coming around.  It took a lot of diligence and strength on my part.  But it worked.  Nothing escalated.    

I realize your situation is radically different.  But the line of thinking may still apply.  

So, since you think she might not take this well and could talk with co-workers, could you essentially just "put no food out." Without announcing to her that you will no longer be putting the food out.  

Might this work?  Might this accomplish the same thing without saying it?  

Were she to ask,, they you could simply explain that "we've both moved on from a personal relationship, nothing more;  but, of course, remain co-workers."  

Just wondering!

Thanks Reclaiming. This has felt extreme to me too.  I go back and forth. I lean toward the email because I am so mixed up right now it is hard to trust my thinking. My T is great and knows me very well.

When I am at work and I hear her voice or see her I have this "reaction" where I want her to stay the heck away.  It reminds me of the pain that my children and I went through.  I want to send the email.   Then when I'm away I calm down and think "is this justified". She's a human being and shouldn't be ignored.

I guess what it comes down to is I have gotten WAY more depressed and confused since she came and talked to me Tuesday. She asked how I was doing (first time since the bu she has asked). And she told me I did the right thing by leaving. It was so much easier when she was being mean. So then I start having second thoughts.

Aaah I'm so confused!

i wouldnt do that, i would just back away slowly... .

I don't doubt that the email would be justified.  There was much I could have legitimately and justifiably said to my ex.  But I don't think the question is about justification.  It is about effectiveness.  

Will sending that email to her be effective?  Will it make her back off?  Will she abide by it?  

Or... .will it set her off?  Will she talk to co-workers?  Is she more likely to come by now that she knows it upsets you?  After all, this is a woman w BPD.  

While I respect your concern for her as a human being, I, personally, am not worried about hurting her.  Altho I don't know you, my loyalty is with you.  I am worried about protecting you, emotionally and professionally.  

In Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift of Fear, he says "engage and enrage" is an option.  It is the option most people take.  But "waiting and watching" is also a very legitimate option.  Though people tend to think this means you are doing nothing, it is quite the contrary.  You are being thoughtful and making a conscious choice to not engage and enrage.  If we wait and watch we can always ramp up to engage/enrage.  But once we've ramped up, it is very hard, if not impossible, to go back to waiting and watching.  

So, while it is hard on you at present, if you would go back to keeping your head down, not making eye contact, and essentially "quit putting food out" there is a very good chance she'll (eventually) retreat.

What do you think?  I knew in my gut that I did NOT want to escalate my situation.  And not out of protection for him but out of self-preservation for me.  I was very clear that I could not punish him without punishing myself at the same time.  

Additionally, I think the ultimate goal for any of us is indifference.  Such that seeing them/hearing them is fine AND not seeing them/hearing them is fine.  

While LC is the strategy and the way to get to indifference, LC itself is not the goal.  The goal isn't to never see her again.  The goal is to recover such that she no longer affects you.  Once she doesn't affect you and no longer triggers you, I think you will feel more empowered and self-respecting.  You can take her or leave her.  Either way she won't be affecting you or your happiness.  Because YOU will be in charge of YOU.  Not her.

If LC/NC becomes the goal then you are forever at her mercy and still "walking around on eggshells" hoping you won't see her.

Indifference is definitely my goal.   

Well, that and another kick-ass r/s :)

I admire the way you're taking the time, both on these boards and with your T, to really think through your response.  |iiii

The first thought that popped into my head when I read it was, is the second sentence really needed? Might it prompt her to begin asking you more questions?

"exgf, thanks for your concerns this week but I ask that we have no more personal contact.  As always, feel free to contact me with any work-related concerns."

I would give my right arm for that indifference Reclaiming. That's all I want!  To just not be phased by this anymore. My T is sure I will get there. Like we all know its just hard to wait when you are in pain.

In my gut it doesn't feel right to send it. I know it is justified to protect myself but I think it will hurt me too. I guess I have been so up and down and back and forth with the relationship and the bu that I don't know whether or not my gut is a good authority.

Can anyone sell me some of that indifference?  I felt it for about 1/2 a work day on 4/20. It was GREAT.  Even with her coming around my dept a lot I was just ok with everything. 

Its frustrating to have slid back so far.

Yes,  simple man,  indifference is hard won! 

Here is the good news:  you've experienced it already.   Which means you know it IS possible.   AND you know what you were doing to get there.   So just go back to it.   I don't think you need to tell her.   Just do it.   Put your head down.   Don't make eye contact.  I think that is what you said you were doing.   Whatever it was, it was working.   Go back to it!   You do know what to do.   

Maybe you haven't slid back; maybe you're just working through it and on the road towards healing - isn't that a possibility?  :)oing the work and deciding how and where to draw boundaries to keep yourself emotionally safe?

That sounds like healthy progress to me!

Simpleman, I second Jhkbuzz!

I like this sentence as your explanation to her rather than the draft you shared, honestly. It's kinder and more emotionally real.

"I think you should too" in particular I'd stay away from. We make decisions for ourselves. Making a hard choice supposedly for someone else, esp when it's not what they want, can make people feel not heard. Just say why you need it for you. Fine to be honest about why you need it and find to be vulnerable. I never have regretted being honest about these things. I have regretted omitting information or being too abrupt or cryptic or cold.

I agree with you. When pwBPD do stuff like that we think it's terrible and disordered. We are all human beings and should maintain a basic humanity in our dealings with one another. You don't need a long explanation--even a few lines is fine. "I was devastated by our relationship for reasons I am working on understanding better, and I need not to re-enter that dynamic, despite that I care about you." That is not leaving the door open for negotiation, but it tells her why.

I've finished reading the thread now and don't disagree with Reclaiming, IF you think you can manage quite a few probing interactions. I think she may try pretty hard to get through your indifference.

Right - and the problem is that he's not indifferent: he posted, "the contact is pretty stressful for me and I feel myself slipping back to seeing her as a victim." If he's not careful, he'll slip back into the FOG.

Simpleman, since the relationship is over, you are obligated to yourself alone.  I don't say this with any cruelty or malice; your emotional well being is your concern, and she gets to take care of her own emotional needs.  Her emotional state is not your responsibility, although you probably felt like it was in the r/s.  I know I felt like it was mine - and it took me a long time to shake that off.

As a coworker and human being, your only responsibility to her at this point is to communicate what you need clearly. Your obligation to yourself is to safeguard your emotional well being however you see fit.  I understand that you would rather not communicate with her at all, but since she has done so without your invitation it sounds you feel the need to draw a boundary (i.e. I only want to communicate about work matters.) This sounds like a very reasonable boundary to me! It also sounds like a healthy response to her behavior.  After all this is a person who hurt you deeply.

The question you originally had was about the words to use to draw the boundary.  I think going over your response to her with your T would be really helpful!

Sounds like you know what to do! 

Simpleman, sounds to me like you're not at indifference YET.  But it is coming.  You even experienced half a day of it.  I, too, wish is came much quicker!

As for the email, I simply question iits effectiveness.  We couldn't control our pwBPD's behavior while we were in the r/s so chances of controlling it outside the r/s seems even less likely. 

I agree Simpleman has the right to set the boundary to take care of himself.  I just don't know that telling her is the most effective path.  Will she ramp up?  Will she talk to co-workers?  Will she respect his wishes?  Will that make her more likely to come around? 

I think this is more about you stepping back into the mindset that was working, Simpleman.  She came around, you opened the door by responding, and it has messed with your mindset leaving you feeling more depressed as a result.  You didn't backslide.  You just learned that letting her chat you up, esp about the r/s, is NOT helpful to you.  Now you know that boundary for yourself.  So now that you definitively know it you can abide by it. 

Sometimes I think we try to set those boundaries with someone else that we ourselves won't respect/enforce.  So we tell them hoping they will do for us what we won't do for ourselves.  I am not sure this is fair in any r/s, but I think with a pwBPD it is particularly unlikely to work. 

At the end of the day, I think we have to learn what works for us, what doesn't, decide how we want to be, and then control ourselves, our interactions, our reactions accordingly... .instead of trying to control their behavior (Lord knows we tried in the r/s!). 

All of that said, Simpleman, like jhkbuzz said, this is about you taking care of you in the way you need to! 

WOW, such GREAT insights and advice everyone.  Thank you so much.

The struggle for me right now is that I have swung all the way back to:

1. None of what happened was her fault.  She was driven by BPD.  She tried her best.

2. I cannot bear to go on knowing that we will not realize the dreams we had.  They were not super lofty and many included helping others.  Were were not asking for much really.  Why couldn't we have that.  Or at least part of it.  or none of it and still be together.

3. I cannot go on knowing that she will be ok without me.  I want to be the one to show her the love she deserves.  I feel immature about that one.

4. I can't go back and try again. I know that.

I know a lot of this comes down to acceptance.

I have spent quite a bit of time looking at the hurtful things she did.  I was in a place where I felt I could see that there were some significant things that she KNEW were hurtful and did anyway and some that were out of her control (raging).  I was trying to be ok with not being with her.  To think "I wouldn't want to be with this person BPD or no BPD".  Now I am in the mindset that I was demonizing her so I could avoid the pain.  I can't blame her for anything.

I don't understand why this is so HARD.  I am getting sick of hearing myself say these things.  I'm trying so hard to do the right things but am failing.

Last night was a mostly sleepless night with me laying in bed crying uncontrollably and before this bu I was really not a crier.

Lives were destroyed on the relationship side and relationships were GREATLY strained on the side of my kids and ex-wife (we have always worked well together)  I take responsibility in some of that because I allowed to happen.  Anyway now I am alone in between longing to be with each side.  Dang I shouldn't be feeling this way on a Friday.  I guess this could have been it's own post.

Thank you again everybody.

Notice how the longer you interact with her (and hang onto the relationship), the more confusion, pain, etc. occurs? Continuing to step back will help clear your head (and heart) and bring about better focus all around. Then: Go from there. Things will have settled enough for you to make good choices.

This is a painful place to be; I can totally empathize.  It took me some months to get past this epic battle between my heart and my head; intellectually I knew the healthiest path to take; my heart pulled me in an entirely different direction.

Here's the thing: allow yourself to feel what you feel.  If you want to curl up and cry, DO IT.  It's part of your processing and grieving.  What really matters is the actions you take from this point forward - and you are very wise to think them through carefully.

If you decide to send a simple email, it's not so much about trying to dictate her behavior (that doesn't work). It's more about drawing your line in the sand ("discussions about work matters only" because you allowed the line to get fuzzy with her. (Not a big deal, I probably would have too.).  But once you draw that line, it's up to you to enforce it. If she comes to talk to you again on a more personal level, it's up to you to walk away, not answer questions, etc.  Politely, but non-emotionally.

Hi all,

I see a lot of great justifications here on both approaches. Here is my thought. I am thinking of sending:

"Hi ex, I want to thank you for your concern about be this past Tuesday. I also want to ask that we have no more discussion related to the time we spent together. I'm working very hard to move on and heal from the experience and that will really help me. Thanks so much."

The thing that really got to me was her telling me that I did the right thing and then seeing her start to cry. That put me back in rescuer mode fast and I went back to the hope I can help her. As you all know that is a STRONG emotion. I think it's a simple and reasonable request that I would hope would not upset her. It's also a chance to tell her that I have moved on without telling her what she should do. Hopefully that will close the door to any advances in the future.  As far as personal contact in general, I think I can do well with "not putting the food out" as Reclaiming suggested.

Thoughts?

I understand the rescuer mode - it's why I always say that I'm 90% sure I wouldn't recycle.  I'm not so cocky as to think I'm immune to the waif-like behavior that drew me in in the first place.

I want to ask... .

You're not actually asking, are you?  Can you put it a little more concretely?

we have no more discussion

Can you couch that in an "I" rather than a "we"?  Again, all you can do is state and enforce your boundaries - it's not really a "we" thing.  How about "Hi ex, I wanted to thank you for your concern about me this past Tuesday. I also wanted to let you know that I don't want to continue to discuss our past relationship."

I'm working very hard to move on and heal from the experience and that will really help me. Thanks so much.

There's something in that ^ sentence that feels "off" to me... .I don't know if it's the "move on and heal" (that might be tough for anyone to hear from an ex) or the fact that it sounds like you're asking for her help in this ("that will really help me". Or perhaps it's that the tone of it sounds a little guilty (F.O.G.) for having to draw the boundary in the first place.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  Maybe this?

I also wanted to let you know that I don't want to continue to discuss our past relationship because it brings up painful feelings.

Could you make the last sentence about the fact that you're (obviously) willing to discuss work related matters?

Thank you jhkbuzz.

Hi ex, I wanted to thank you for your concern about me this past Tuesday. I also wanted to let you know that I don't want to continue to discuss our past relationship because it brings up painful feelings.  As always, feel free to contact me with any work-related needs.

No need to mention your feelings. It's not personal any more.

"Since our r/s is over, it's best our contact now is business-only."

Stick with it. Don't waver/get caught in FOG. Keep moving on with your life.

Nice! Now you might want to put it away and re-read it in a day or two to make sure you're still comfortable with it.


And I understand what myself is saying - and you certainly could leave out any mention of your feelings - but my sense is that you're trying to both give her a bit of closure by not being abrupt and cold, while drawing a firm boundary (not to mention that you're also trying not to kick up any drama because you have to work with her). If that's what you're aiming for, I think your note is  |iiii

OK I went ahead and sent the email and this was the reply:

"I am sorry if asking how you were doing made you think I was talking about the past. I certainly didn't mean to do that. Thank you for the communication and I understand."

Hopefully that will do it. Thanks again everyone. So helpful.

Excellent work,  Simpleman!   Good job and hope you feel good about it.

Just remember that any conflicting feelings that may emerge now or down the road are normal and do not mean you made the wrong decision.   

CONGRATS again on slogging thru this to do what felt right for you and wasn't mean-spirited towards her.   You might be a self-proclaimed simpleman,  but you also seem to be a good man.  :)

Thanks so much reclaiming. That made me smile big.  :)

You are most welcome, simpleman.  Very well deserved!

Glad it worked out.  How are you feeling?

Hi jhkbuzz.  Well I wasn't sure at first. There is still a part of me that has anger and wants to keep finding justification for not wanting to be with her. I'm still in conflict.  So some kind of negative reaction from her would have helped remind me what I'm not missing. But after seeing that it didn't phase her I actually had this strange sense of peace. Like there is something in me that I'm not quite in touch with that is accepting and feeling some relief.  THEN a few hours later I see that it triggered her and I feel really bad. She changed her gmail profile pic from a picture of herself to a picture of a bible verse that says "It's all good"  She used to do that kind of thing all the time after a rage. I don't want her to hurt but I know it was important to set the boundary for ME.

YES^^^

You accomplished both of those objectives, primarily because you thought through your response and asked for some advice.  You are moving in a good, healing direction.  |iiii

It took me many months post b/u (breakup) to realize that, for the entirely of my relationship with my ex, I felt responsible for her emotional well being. This is partly due to her waif-ish behavior, but it is also due to my own FOO (family of origin) issues.  I spent most of my childhood trying to soothe the emotions of my often raging mother - with the primary goal of keeping out of harms way (e.g. getting hit). It didn't work, but I spent a lot of time and energy trying to make her happy.

Interestingly, my ex was nothing like my mother - no rages, etc. But I also spent a lot of time and energy trying to soothe her emotions and make her happy.  There's something about that "effort" that felt familiar and comfortable to me. I wasn't horrified by this realization (other than the fact that it kept me in a damaging r/s for far too long),  but now that I'm aware of this tendency I need to guard against it in future relationships. It's not a healthy behavior for me to engage in.

In the end, no one can make anyone else happy; we're all responsible for managing ourselves and our emotions.  That includes your ex and mine.