BPDFamily.com

Hi and thank you for taking time to read this.

I am almost four month NC with my exBPD and NDbf and have been working very serious on myself ever since the bu - to understand better what happened in our rs and first and for most what all of this had to do with me. I have stopped to make sense out of his behavior quite a while ago but there are still some situations that won't get out of my head and I was wondering what the "state of the art" - understanding of them is. Still given the fact that every person has its individual reasons and sources for certain behavior.

So here it is:

around half a year ago, we were in a complete indifferent phase (from his side), but in touch. He invited me to come to a dinner after a university conference that he had organized parts of it (I was at the conference myself, since we work in close fields - but wouldn't have been going to the dinner party, since I didn't actively participate) - so it was purely initiated by him. I was kinda surprised that he wanted me to go and that he even made an effort to get an extra reservation.

At the conference itself he took a joke I did very personally. It was about people asking me where to put more chairs, which made me laugh... .but he obviously felt insulted by it because this happened at his conference and they where supposed to ask him and he then accused me of not wanting him at the conference - I was stunned.

At the point that we got to the dinner he completely ignored me, spoke to everyone else, but me. But it wasn't the regular kind of ignoring it was very active and aggressive in the sense that he did not even let me sit on my chair when I have asked him to move a bit so I could sit down. Afterwards he made it seem as if he was doing me a big favor to take me home (we live on the same street )

I can't forget the humiliation that he put me through at the dinner and I am still in shock about it.

It would really help to read about your experiences and thoughts on that particular mechanism... .

Think primary school age child. The arrested emotional development leaves them using mechanisms a child would. My children used to do this when they were upset. Hide in bed and pull the covers up. When you went to speak to them they would ignore you and roll away so they werent facing you.

Fortunately for me I could talk to them and explain why their behaviour had been upsetting and why their reaction wasnt appropriate. Try doing this with a pwBPD and you dont get the grown up response.

Thank you enlighten me,

I guess it is still difficult for me to accept how massive the defense was, that he had put up against me in the end.   And it is equally difficult for me to accept, that nothing would have changed the situation, no matter what I would have done differently. In the end, I had so little left of myself because I always tried to be a person that he would want in his life... .even though I am generally a very confident person.

Partly this process of falling apart happened because I could hardly get a reflective or empathic response to anything he did in retrospective. most of the time it wasn't even possible to talk about things he did at all and only bringing something up as in "what happened?" used to be to much. He then would tell me how selfish I was to ask him what happened, while nothing had happened in the first place and that I would only do this in order to understand myself better, to clarify things for myself and that it anyways wasn't connected to him and I wasn't interested in him at all etc. etc.

 

its, I guess, what you meant here: "Try doing this with a pwBPD and you dont get the grown up response." true - you won't get one... .and it is hard to comprehend.

Yes I can totally relate. I lost myself during the relationahip.

Hey SS-

I don't see borderline traits in your description specifically, but I haven't read your other posts.  What jumps out in this one is lots of people communicate poorly disordered or not, myself included more than once, and there are functional and dysfunctional ways to deal with relationship upsets.  Something was obviously going on for him with you at that event, and instead of take you aside and addressing it directly, he pulled the sht he did.  Very hurtful, and I've made mistakes like that too, usually because I didn't have the courage in the moment to address the issue head-on, so I used whiny little bullsht.  But there's the aftermath too: something like that can be fixed if the two people sit down and talk it out later, folks who need to apologize do so, things get resolved, and life goes on; it's impossible to be in a relationship without both partners getting upset once in a while, and the ability to resolve stuff like that is a make-or-break for the relationship.  I could never get anything resolved with my ex, and stopped trying because she would blame me for everything, since she's perfect you see, just ask her, so that relationship was doomed.  Sounds like you can relate?

fromheeltoheal, Hey,

what makes you think that it is not typical BPD?

Well, traits of the disorder include fear of abandonment, unstable interpersonal relationships, impulsivity and chaos, an unstable sense of self, splitting, and intense emotional reactivity, among others.  Then again, the traits are on a continuum and we all exhibit some of them at least some of the time, and the info in your post could be described as moody, being an asshle, manipulative, things most people are capable of some of the time.  I'm not saying it isn't borderline behavior, there just isn't enough info in your post that screams it.  What other behaviors have you witnessed that led you here, in a nutshell since you've probably posted it in other posts already?

I'm sorry you had to go through that humiliating experience Susan Sunday.

My ex partner often gave me the silent treatment with family members witnessing it.

Do you mean he was giving you the silent treatment ?

Nothing abnormal that they do makes any sense, not to us, not even to them. Not taking their behaviors personally is very hard to do, but there is nothing you can do about it. We can't fix it and they can't fix it.

I just took a weekend trip with a BPD friend, and it reminded me not to spend that much time with them again. Very reminiscent of my exBPD, only without the raging that he would do.

Take a look at this discussion. It certainly helped me understand why some adults act out the way they do. We expect them to be someone they are not:

Emotional Immaturity (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=60935.0;all)

My ex would often put herself in bed crying, pull the sheets over her head for hours and roll away if I tried to speak to her and scream and shout. It's very tiring to get this behaviour from an adult. I'd forgotten about this until you mentioned it as a child's behaviour. There was never a sense of shame or embarrassment about it later either. It was my fault i forced her to behave that way of course.

Thank you very much for all your thoughts on that.

I think it took me so long to get back to this, because it is still very difficult for me to confront myself with particularly this situation and ever since I've written about it here, it was part of almost all of my dreams that I have had about him... .

the link about Emotional Immaturity, from you Turkish, helped a lot and I could relate to a lot of the things that were mentioned there from my own experiences with my exbf.

Trog, I know exactly what you are talking about, everything was also always my fault, my simple existence could be to much for him. For all the other occasions that he didn't speak to me,  there was always something that I did wrong in the first place - that was usually about not seeing his needs or sensitivity about a specific matter and interestingly would never put into consideration that he himself behaved in a certain way- that could have hurt me and caused the allegedly insensitive respond... .

As to your question Mutt: I thing he gave me the silent treatment that day - very classical - showed me how he was fine with everyone else at the conference and the dinner - I have hardly seen him so relaxed in a highly intense social situation - but he was perfectly fine with everyone but me - after he had approached me many times for help in the week before the conference and I have been there each time - when we left the dinner together he even flirted with our waitress, me standing next to them - I had to laugh about it, cause it was so obvious and cheep, that didn't hurt me so much in the end ... .but how he had put me on the spot by ignoring me in a quasi professional setting - puh! and only here, through the conversations and help of the people I could understand that the silent treatment and acting as if you aren't existing is a very violent form of abusive behavior. I didn't have a clear concept about this before and now I am a bit more oriented.

Fromheeltoheal, hey, I understand where your question is coming from and I have asked myself many times before, if he was just a regular jerk or what exactly was going on with him. I am, even to that day not always sure how to judge what happened - but I guess the disorder (that I am very sure about), him acting like a jerk or a very sweet person goes together in one. But he, for sure, presents a lot of very typical BPD behavior with ND mixed in and shockingly, psychotic episodes in which he slightly, never completely looses touch to reality and for example has his cat talk to him about me. He presents compulsive, verbally abusive behavior - has pulled me in and pushed me away sometimes within a couple of days or even hours. His moods are absolutely unpredictable and he can be the sweetest and most supportive person I have ever met in one moment - planning trips with me - then, next moment telling me that he can't be with me, that he doesn't want to marry me and starts insulting me, very often with exactly the same things that the day before he told me that he liked them about me. For example: he tells me that I am very good in making him feel comfortable - next day: I am not looking for a person to fell comfortable around. I am sure each time, its what he feels and I am as well sure, that this is not a stable emotional reality.

Now, after reading a bit more, I can relate to the theory of "arrested development" a lot, because I have never seen him deal with a conflict (not with me, not at work and not with his family) in a grown up and mature way. It's always the others and they always want to stab him in the back, or use him... .again, I am sure this is what he feels and it needs to be taken serious, but it also hurts me and I need to take care of myself  - and it is much easier to do so with you guys together! Thanks again

id look at three things. emotional immaturity, as you already have, the over the top anger, and even the unstable sense of self.

often times a pwBPD may keep you at bay to an extent to help them mitigate the fear of engulfment vs abandonment. and often times its the exact opposite. it sounds like you feel more a part of the former with going without speaking for ten days and the like, or being surprised he invited you to this event.

having an unstable sense of self may manifest in a pwBPD appearing radically different depending on who they are around. we can all appear different depending on who we are around (as an introvert, some people bring me out more than others, some make me laugh more than others, some people even make me laugh at things i might not normally laugh at) but as is often the case, this can be more complex for a pwBPD.

i liked my ex a lot more when it was the two of us behind closed doors. i often couldnt stand her around her friends/loved ones or mine. she was a completely different person, and in addition to being uncomfortable with that, it was hard to know how to behave.

a job can give a pwBPD a sense of identity to try to cling to. you, as a trigger, can at times threaten that. im guessing he took your joke as not just criticism of his job, but of the identity he was trying to create. a thin skinned guy might feel emasculated. a pwBPD might feel a threat to their very identity, accompanied with indescribable shame. this may or may not even be realized by them, it may simply trigger defense mechanisms against the trigger, you. im splitting hairs, but since i mentioned a thin skinned guy might feel emasculated, so might a male with BPD. if you struggle with an unstable sense of self, it stands to reason a perceived slight on your masculinity would cause even greater shame. pwBPD can be especially sensitive to criticism to the point that they perceive it whether its there or not. it feels more or less like rejection. feelings = fact so joke or not, he was reacting to his feelings. him carrying on with other people was just him keeping up his image. acknowledging you after a perceived slight doesnt much fit into that.

after reading your posts im also curious if you think there may be some NPD comorbidity going on? do you know much about it?

"a pwBPD might feel a threat to their very identity, accompanied with indescribable shame."

this is how it felt,but i am still not sure where the indescribable shame is coming from - or does it come from the same feeling of emasculation?

"acknowledging you after a perceived slight doesnt much fit into that"

makes sense and is a helpful explanation

"after reading your posts im also curious if you think there may be some NPD comorbidity going on? do you know much about it?"

i dont know much about it but have certainly had the same thought. his lack of empathy, his constant feeling of being misunderstood and the anger that comes with that feeling, an over romanticized idea of the perfect relationship (that one is just naturally understood in and doesn't have to work on once self), his self-perception as a genius that other people envy for his intellect and therefor aren't friends with him, his complete intolerance for criticism, or his total ignorance to other people if it is not about him (sometimes he would just look out of the window when i was talking to him), him being jealous of his siblings if they receive attention from their parents and the devaluation of people in general - of for example not being worth it for having a nice view - would all speak for it, i guess. once he has told me that he thinks of himself to be the last good person on the planet (kinda alarming?). another time he told me that i was thinking of myself to be better at domestic thing than he was and that in fact, that wasn't true and that i shouldn't believe that - i have never ever before felt like that nor have we ever had a conflict about it, even the opposite we agreed a lot on how to do stuff in the house - which showed me that his attacks were always waiting around the corner.

what, specifically, made you notice?

"but i am still not sure where the indescribable shame is coming from - or does it come from the same feeling of emasculation?"

most likely, it comes from his childhood and is at least as old.

"what, specifically, made you notice?"

mostly a hunch, as i dont know as much as i oughta about npd. if im not mistaken, i think ive read that males with BPD have a higher npd comorbidity rate than women with BPD. it seems like the silent treatment is pretty common with npd, at least on these boards. the way he chose to react to (perceived) criticism. pwBPD are highly sensitive to it too, but they kinda react from a different place.

"his constant feeling of being misunderstood and the anger that comes with that feeling" anger directed at the person(s) misunderstanding him?

"his self-perception as a genius that other people envy for his intellect and therefor aren't friends with him, his complete intolerance for criticism, or his total ignorance to other people if it is not about him (sometimes he would just look out of the window when i was talking to him), him being jealous of his siblings if they receive attention from their parents and the devaluation of people in general" and his behavior toward you all may point to npd.

"i think ive read that males with BPD have a higher npd comorbidity rate than women with BPD"

i've read a bit more now and have worked with gender theories before - so, i would agree on that - it fits into the whole picture of him including his gender and it makes a great deal of sense that gender differences are as well reflecting intrinsic dispositions. empirical research actually suggests that men display higher narcissism than women (but i guess it is more complicated and might say more about different patterns in npd) - but it seems to me that the way he is presenting the disorder is particularly masculine and for him as an academic who is over the average intelligent i can see how he is being enabled by his surrounding - a women that would display this kind of narcissist behavior would most probably be socially sanctioned and not supported.


"anger directed at the person(s) misunderstanding him?" - a lot of different behavior makes him angry and he usually directs it at the person that made him angry, but on a different level i guess he also directs it at himself but found coping strategies for that, for example going to the gym for some hours every day. if i (and i think this also goes for his parents) would not understand some of his very deep feelings or what he would explain as a very deep thought (sometimes very twisted, morbid, nihilistic or absurd thoughts about demons or G-d) then he got angry at me or over the top disappointed, plus: tried to make me feel like an idiot for not being able to understand this very deep thought. if for example a friend of his parents would not understand what he is writing about in his phd then he would get angry too, manly because he perceived it as criticism.

but, he could also get aggressive or angry at me for being perceptive or understanding - then he could say stuff like: "don't try to read me" and completely cut me off. 

so, either case can generate the feeling of being misunderstood, which usually drives him to verbally abuse the not understanding person (idiot)- at least this is what he mostly did to me.

you might find this useful. dsm iv criteria for npd is included in the first page if you havent yet seen them.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90388.0

based on your description and words it sounds like he may tick off a majority of the criteria.

Thank you! i haven't seen it before, but have found it very helpful. i remember how i felt, when i for the first time read more about BPD after i thought that he was showing very specific patters of destructive and self-destructive unstable and contradictory behavior, but wasn't sure whether it was more BPD or if he was rather bipolar - now it's easier because i have already accepted it, plus i am reading for myself and for the sake of comprehending what happened to me.

reading = creating distance!