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She ended our r/s coming up 2 years mid August so why am I still posting my own stuff here. She had a replacment by about July 2013... .

She moved out a year ago last Feb.

My phone died two weeks ago. I didn't back up my contacts. I charged my old phone to retrieve some. I just looked at the texts. Only 5 months before she started actively cheating, she sent me a text (the others were normal stuff, kids, dinner plans, etc). It was a selfie, "hey hot stuff, how are you doing?".

In retrospect, I can't believe it started going to hell less than 5 months later. The good thing for detachment, I guess, is that I didn't break down into a sobbing mess like I may have done a year ago while had to deal with her other r/s while she was living with me and then D1 and S3. So that's good.

I'm still angry, though, especially after yesterday when she chose to not see her kids on Mother's Day even though I offered to take her out to lunch with the kids yesterday.

I think I got more angry at that... .I had lunch with our children on MD as a father by myself. We get along (with boundaries on my side). We hang out with the kids on her Sundays for about half an hour after church, where she still brings them, and I always thank her, because she doesn't have to bring them.

I think where I'm stuck is the anger stage, despite my T telling me a year ago, "she is who she is. I sense a lot of your anger stems from expecting her to be who she is not."

Maybe this is more PI stuff, but I'm struggling as to why I'm so angry still.

Hi Turkish

I can understand the anger. I think with me what triggers it still is the injustice and double standards. My anger is fleeting when I deconstruct their behaviour that triggers me.

Both my exs potray themselves aa loving parents but they both have dropped the kids at one time or another to pursue their own needs. At first I just saw it as selfish and uncaring. I now realise it is selfish but doesnt mean they dont care about the children they just have to feed their habit.

one lesson I have learnt through this is that we cant hold people to our own values and standards. Whether they have BPD or nothing wrong we are all different. We have all had different upbringing and experiences.

I think we will always have anger triggers with our exs as their behaviour is irratic.

Hey Turkish, sorry that you're still feeling the hurt on this one.

I think that it is normal and makes quite a bit of sense.

From my perspective, and this may benefit you or not, it still seems that you're engaged in the push/pull, your children being the lever by which this mechanism continues to operate. Do you think that maybe you haven't yet fully accepted her behavior regarding this one issue?

That's ironic.

I told my ex ALL THE TIME "your dad is who he is, he is never going to change. Do not expect him to do the right thing, because he never will... .don't try to have a conversation with him where your expectation is that he will hear and understand you. He won't".

My healing really started when I accepted the fact that:

1. The ex, is who he is, and he never was nor will he ever be, what he PRETENDED to be.

It was all a show; because who he really is (behind closed doors) is WHO he REALLY is; and no one NO ONE deserves to live with such a person.

What I wanted him to be (a loving husband and father) is not who he is, who he was, or who he will ever be.

2. This was not my fault. There is nothing in heaven or on earth I could have done differently and the outcome not be the same.

3. He is not worth the energy. I have TOO MUCH living to do, to spend precious energy being mad.

I have been going thru a HUGE box of baby tapes. 20+ year old tapes.

Of course he's in them.

No 'trigger', no anger, no racing thoughts... .

I do fast forward the parts of the tape where he's talking to the camera; but I do not get angry.

He's simply not worth wasting my precious energy on... .

I spent A LOT of time being angry at ME.

How could I be so stupid, how could he trick me for so long, etc.

THEN

I spent A LOT of time being angry at him.

How could he ruin the kids lives.

How could he ruin our lives.

How could he ruin my life, the dreams, goals, future... .

THEN

I reminded myself what I THOUGHT was 'our lives, dreams, future, etc' WAS A LIE... .

So then I would go back to angry with me.

Rinse Repeat.

Enough was enough.

I am pulling up stakes, moving 5 states away, and starting from scratch.

I'm gonna drop the past like a hot potato.

I'm gonna be fine, heck, more than fine.

I will succeed!

I got this around midnight last night. The reference is to the Mother's Day card:


I don't even know how to respond to that. "You're welcome." ?  

Incredible! Is she still with the replacement?

Man, that's some wild triangulation she's pulling there if she's still with your replacement.

Your response depends on the amount of clarity that you have about it, I guess.

What do you think Turkish?

Wow

That must of been some mother's day card and gift card  :)

It sounds like the messages are mixed?

I think she just married him or any week now. I sent the message to a buddy, and he said. "pre-marriage recycle?"

Of all of my friends, he knows the most about BPD from what I referred him to here (his sister is dBPD).

You see it as triangulation? Maybe... .My instinct is to "rescue" her since she's going so far the other way that she may put up with abuse from her new H by being too hard on herself.

My gut is no response is the best. My cynical response would be "of course... .because she still needs me as a father to our children."

I think some of it is sincere. Guilt, shame, regret (she told me she wished things "could have been different" once months ago). The triangulation angle gives me something to think about. I don't need to be rude, but I am also not responsible for assuaging her guilt. I can forgive her by detaching. I do want to forgive; I don't like being angry. I just don't think I can do that by engaging in a conversation, which might involve some crying and even some hugging if it were in person. Not while she's with her affair partner. This is the life she chose (and choosing to give up her kids for literally seven years of their childhood lives). I wash my hands of it.

The card was all right, Mutt. S5 got triggered (I may not have handled it well, and he is very sensitive) and he scribbled on it in anger at me--- nothing to do with Mom. I warned her over the phone though and told her what happened when we called her Sunday. Then we talked for a bit about the kids' behaviors.

Edit: she may have also felt guilty by choosing to not meet us as I offered.

Wow.  How are you feeling about that?  I can only imagine the rush of emotions I'd feel to receive a message like that from my ex.  Is this the first time she has apologized to you?

Yeah, the reason that I say it could be triangulation is that it seems to me that she has fears about re-marrying, and needs some kind of emotional support (from you makes sense, of course, sense you are the father of her children and have what I imagine to be a deep, shared history of some kind).

This is definitely about you. It has to be in some sense, but to which degree? That's going to be impossible to say.

Again, if you feel that you haven't forgiven her yet, the decision becomes much more difficult (or much easier, depending on how you see it).

Other than the fact that it's slightly over the top, I'm not sure what's wrong with it, especially in light of the fact that it was sent in response to the card/gift. If it were me (and it's not, but if it were) I would consider a "thank you for the kind words" response and leave it at that.

Cosmo, a couple of times were passive apologies, the most invalidating one being when we were living together and she was doing what she was doing. Typically, "It happened... ." etc.

'buzz, I like the BIFF response. I was trying to think of one and was drawing a blank. Sometimes the Firm can just be implicit. A response like that will probably settle her a bit. It was over the top, as I would have responded, "Thanks for the card," and I will if she does the same on FD.

Thinking back, I made a better card, with pics of the kids in it. I didn't get any response then, which is another reason this surprised me. With unfinished business, it's practical (and right in most cases) to take a peace offering... .with boundaries, of course.

I'm not sure what BIFF or "the Firm" means!  *)


That's ^ what I was thinking - keeping things detached but pleasant, primarily for the sake of the kids.

Brief Informative, Friendly, Firm (occasionally I skip the first F). Most useful in legal situations or in communication with an emotionally charged family member. This works:

TOOLS: Responding to hostile email (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=133835.0#top)

Turkish

I am about 17 months since my 3 yr relationship ended. Unlike you I have been 100% NC.  I still have days where my anger returns. Sometimes it will last a couple of days. Even after this much time has passed it is still impossible to comprehend some of the bizarre behavior and actions shifting from complete admiration to baffling indifference daily or even hourly up to the last time I ever spoke with her. I do believe as you say that it is not right to be angry with someone that can't give you what you want from them, but it can be difficult when you see that person as completely "normal" at times.

It is all very confusing to the mind and I am very surprised that I still take time out of my life to think about this woman who could never meet my needs. I believe some of the anger I feel is pointing inward at the shame I feel for allowing myself to get in a situation where I lost respect for myself and never put myself first. This feelings have generally faded but it has been a long process that forced me to look inward to find and just as importantly face my deficiencies.  I am forever changed by the relationship and it is up to me to keep building on the good that has come from it.

I have over the last year met and dated more women than I have at any other times in my life combined yet I still find myself judging my feelings for these women based on the overpowering, intoxicating feeling I had with my ex. It's powerful stuff Turkish, especially when you are forced to keep the sort of attachment that you must when coparenting. She will likely do whatever she must to keep her bond with you and I am sure she still has moments of confusion about her feelings for you. She cannot help it. It's how she is programmed. it is up to you to come up with that elusive forgiveness that will set you free from her trauma bond once and for all. 

Thanks Waifed. What you wrote sums up what we need to do in order to detach. Radical acceptance, taught here,.told to me by my T, is still something I struggle with. "She is who she is" and "personalities typically don't change."

You write, "she cannot help it." She is who she is.

I read something today: "complacency is the demise of momentum."

It seems obvious, but that struck me. It spoke to me to not be stuck,.because I've gone Hermit over the last year, and everybody knows that you never go Full Hermit. Unless you need to for a while  :)

In a perfect universe she could, but that's not the way it is. I could have helped choosing differently, not choosing to ignore the red flags on our first date (and before), but I didn't.

Every time I say that the toughest part may be validating ourselves, I'm also telling myself this.

I'm glad you are dating... .I feel like it, but I'm not there yet. I hesitated to give a woman my number the other week, because despite being attracted to her, I felt a gut response. The  my-issues  may be hard to get rid of, but nothing is lost on trying.

What part of radical acceptance are you struggling with Turkish?

I picked up my kids today, and felt despondent. I almost resented the kids after two days of hermitude. Not because of them (I felt fine once we got home and settled into the routine), but because  of returning to the empty house I bought for my family.

Coming up on two years since she ended it, and 16 months since she moved out, one would think I would have accepted things. So my radical acceptance thing is her missing from our lives.

Edit: S5 just awoke. Peed his bed, crying. I was calm, despite California water rationing and an extra lad of laundry. This is the hardest: that their mom isn't here to help. It isn't a big deal to me to validate his crying (shame), nor to do an extra load of laundry. Just that his mom is missing what we should be sharing.

I let him go to sleep in my bed. He was happy. His sister is sleeping on the trundle in their room. She'll likely wander in at 5am as she usually does. This is how our family is now. Radical acceptance.

There is a difference between acceptance and radical acceptance.  With acceptance you acknowledge or recognize the facts are true. Conversely, radically acceptance is accepting all the way with your mind, body, heart and soul.

I understand the anger  towards your ex and it does take time to work through those feelings. I understand how it can feel having an empty house.

You have mentioned that you have gone full hermit. What are the reasons you have become a hermit?



 

Thanks for the insight. I may be resisting RA by the definition.

I've spent many years breaking out of being a hermit, and shedding a lot of social anxiety. It's not anxiety anymore, but more a desire to be alone. I'm also a compulsive reader. Being a hermit may just be who I am. My mom noticed such behavior when she adopted me at 2.4 yrs, with she being my final parent and caregiver, having been in three different homes by that age. The Hermitness people bug me is probably something I should throw out on PI at some point... .

I can understand the hermit thing. I can also understand the pick up feeling.

I too am a bit of a hermit. I enjoy my own company. I find other people can be draining. I dont know whether I find people draining because I feel I need to live up to their expectations or whether I find some people dull and shallow. Something I will have to think more about.

I think with the children it is mentally draining with the pick ups. I never sleep well the night before pick ups.

I think you mean you're introverted and re-energize by being alone?

A person that is extroverted gets energized by being around people. I'm introverted and need alone time to re-energize.

Thunking about it Mutt I probably am an introver. Not something ive thought about really.

I had a friend read her email. He's 11 years older, has 4 step kids and 2 with his wife, so way more life experience. He said that he thought I still cared about her. I said that I was doing my duty by having the kids respect their mom. He said, "it sounds like you still care about her, because you didn't have to give her the card. I wouldn't have."  

We probably all still care about them in some way. We also probably still care about what they think of us.

Caring isnt a bad thing. Its what makes us better than our exs because we can show it. I find cards a dificult situation as one it triggers me and two trying to find the right balance. Ive now opted for the bare minimum. I will buy my exgf a card from our son but it wont be over the top gushy or funny. When he's older im sure he will want to make his mum a card which I will obviously help with but I wont go over board on it.

You're still angry because she did you wrong, by cheating and so on.

Still triggered because you're still interacting with her too much?

Not much you can do about the first part. Time will help.

Letting go seems more important than forgiving.

The second part: Are you doing what's really best for You?

Or still trying to make it OK for everybody else?

I agree.  It's ok to still care, Turkish.  I don't see that as a negative at all.  I actually think it's a noble quality.  You don't have to take the high road, but you are.  You aren't turning the kids against your ex.  You want them to have a good relationship with their mother.  That is a wonderful quality.  I firmly believe we can detach with love.

I may still be too much of that mindset.

Last night, D3 pointed at me and said, "I like you, I don't like mommy." 

As far as I could tell, since she just turned 3, it may he's been related to when their mom yelled at her brother for barfing in the car two weekends ago. I can't imagine our D would say that based upon one incident. I'm not going to share that with their mom. It's not up to me to fix things. I'll just monitor. I will say that I felt very sad that our daughter feels like that.

I just got a call, almost 10pm my time, 1.5 hrs after I put the kids to bed at my house... .D3 wanted to call me. I was on speakerphone. I couldn't quite figure out why talking to both of them.  I was needed to rescue? Or D3 wanted to just talk to me?

I know I'm not supposed to be an object to "make everything better." Their mom at the end thanked me for answering rescuing. I assured D3 that I'd see her tomorrow at the event (their godmother's graduation party) . She seemed satisfied, even if she was sad when I dropped her off this morning. I wept for a few mintutes, thinking, "why can't she handle this?"

As you said in a way, myself, do I have to make everything better?

I went to a graduation party tonight. My exBIL's girlfriend's congratulatory dinner. He proposed to her there. It was better than my proposal, where my Ex started raging at me over getting her the large box of chow-mein when I was supposed to get her the smaller box. My gut then told me to show her the ring, then throw it in the lake. Instead, I thought, "screw her," and I dropped to one knee... .and here I am.

I guess my response to her email had a desired affect for her. When they arrived, she gave me a one armed hug in greeting, something she's never done. I returned it half-heartedly. OM shook my hand, probably called me "sir" as he does. I don't really remember.

It was good food  |iiii  I picked out a place near the end of the table. S5 naturally sat with me, two uncles, with his grandparents trailing down the table until his mom and OM.

Due to S5's choice, perhaps, their mom grabbed D2. After a while,.she kind f wanted to sit with us, wandering over. She went back. I then noticed that she had fallen asleep. Grandma was holding her most of the time. OM was buried in his cell phone a lot. Maybe it's a generational thing. He's 18 years younger than me. At one point, he brought crayons over to our son, so he's trying to be a good step dad. I made sure S5 thanked him. I didn't think of that, preferring to keep my son entertained, but there was nothing wrong with that.

At one point, an uncle suggested that S5 go sit with his mom, but S5 preferred to remain with us. This was the one uncle in whom I confided some of his sister's outlandish behaviors when she was still living with us. I felt a sting, but blood is blood,.and the family works by supressing their feelings a lot (cheating dad). It is what it is.

It was a bit grating to see them pressing flesh with the OM, especially when he was congratulating them on their engagement. Again, it is what it is.

I got S5 upset when I was trying to be helpful cutting one of his crayons. He likes everything "just so." He started crying. I went to get him replacement crayons. His mom observed it from her side and came over. I was trying to validate him and apologize, but he threw the crayons across the table a short distance. This upset her, and she started focusing on the behavior, rather than the emotion first. I said, "Ex, you're invalidating him, telling him how to feel." She replied, "but I don't like when he throws things," then she turned to him and said, "throwing things isn't acceptable." I said, "no it isn't, but he's upset that I cut his crayon, but I got new ones. He's still upset, let him be upset rather than ['going straight to T rather than skipping S&E' I wanted to say] telling him how to feel. I resisted saying, "how did you feel when I used to invaldate you over getting mad over 'stupid little stuff?'" That is a conversation I might have with her another time.

I left early, after appropriately dismissing myself from the parents, and the graduate. Said goodbye to S5. He was fine. D2 was still asleep. My ex-in-laws were looking at me expectantly, as they wanted to leave on my heels. I said, "I don't mind being the bad guy, I'll leave first." My ex looked at me from the far end of the table and I waved goodbye. I didn't feel obligated to go over nor shake OM's hand, which I know he would have offered. All in all, I think I was appropriate... .with boundaries... .

The next event is ex-BIL's college graduation next month out of town. He invited me. I've known him through his and college,.and he said he looks up to me as a mentor,so I'm respecting him by going, and driving him back from University. After that, I foresee no events where I'll have to see my Ex and the OM until S5's bd next January. I'm not doing Thanksgiving and Christmas with them, even though I know my ex-in-laws will invite me.  

It's gonna be a long 15 years