BPDFamily.com

This post might be a bit TMI. If I say anything inappropriate, please just tell me :)

A short recap for those who do not know my story. I am 36 my H is 49. The past few years we have had a lot of sexual issues. We have sex once every few months or so. My H is convinced he has ED, but until recently refused to go to a doctor.

My H and I spoke for a long time about our sex life. It was really really great to just be able to talk about it with him. Last night, at first he tried to say the things he said before about I need to be 'more aggressive', and when I said I understood that, it was difficult for me, and I asked him to help me understand why this was not an issue the first 2 years we were together.

Finally, he said that he was just trying to come up with a reason. The truth is that he isn't aggressive either, and sex has ALWAYS been odd and uncomfortable for him. He said when he started having the ED issues (when this all first started... .it was just an issue of not being able to stay hard the whole time. Sometimes he wouldn't be able to finish... .1 out of 5 times is my guess)

Well once that started happening, he said his confidence went down. He started overthinking things... .comparing me to past lovers... .knowing logically everyone is different, but trying to find something to "pin it on". He said he started to get obsessed with the fact that I do not orgasm with straight vaginal penetration. I do need clitoral stimulation.

Now, back when we first got together, he mentioned it a few times with the assumption most women DO cum with vaginal penetration only. I looked it up and no. The opposite is true. He knows that now... .but for the longest time he had it in his head, so he started questioning himself... .feeling like he wasn't a good lover if he couldn't get me there. He said he started overthinking everything... .putting pressure on himself, etc etc even now that he knows, he still has that thought in his head.

I spoke to him about how it feels for me... .how much I like and miss it. He understood this but couldn't get past his own mental issues over it. He said he doesn't think anyone is sexually compatible with him because of the way he overthinks it.

We talked about different things to try, like he could get me off orally first, then go into penetration. The biggest weird thing he asked from me is if I could 'fake it' during sex. He literally asked me to fake an orgasm during vaginal penetration. I told him we could make a game out of it. One of the next 3 times we have sex will be a fake orgasm and he has to tell me which time it was.

To be honest, though... .if that's all it takes... .if that's what he needs... .I'll fake the F*&^( out of it.

I am so so glad he talked to me. At the end of the conversation, he told me part of him was glad we talked, and part of him was like "oh my god what have I said", and I told him I loved talking to him about it and I'm glad he felt comfortable enough to do so. :) He also said he does think dirty thoughts of me, finds me attractive... .but he freezes up when it comes to initiating anything because he's afraid of messing up.

We are still going to the doctor, and still getting that pill. Even if it's mental ED... .I'd like to get that fear off of the table for him. After talking to everyone here, I knew it was probably his BPD and issues from childhood that made him weird about sex, but it was good to find out. And, I think it was good for him to trust me enough to say it. Also, the whole thing about me needing to be aggressive seems to have been a bit of gas lighting on his part.

Poor guy. I forget how much his own brain must talk him down and yell at him on a daily basis... .the parts he doesn't share with me or talk about.

Woohoo! Yay for good conversations.

My husband has struggled with ED for years. There is no rhyme or reason why it works so intermittently. He goes to the doctor regularly but has never been able to find out why.

Do they give him Vicodin or anything like that?

No, he isn't on any pain meds. He is on meds for thyroid, diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, and depression. I think that covers it. Even when he wasn't on any medications for anything his ability to function was touch and go. Heck, when he was in his 20's after we first got married, his equipment wouldn't work a lot of the time. There was a period of time where he was on some meds where ED was a possibly side effect. He has been pretty good about trying to stay away from meds that have that as a side effect.

Hmm ok. My H has a reaction to Vicodin, and in general is sensitive to medications. Has your H tried any ED meds like Viagra?

Nope, hubby has never tried Viagra or anything else. His preference seems to be to whine about it and feel bad about it. For years, things didn't work because he had already taken care of himself with porn.

And then it was the diabetes.

There have been all sorts of excuses over the years. I have to be very, very careful not to take it personally. I would think that if he was really interested in having sex with me that he would do something other than make excuses. I don't know if drugs would really help anyway. A lot of times, I can, um, play him like a fiddle and get things to work. The only problem is that things have to be uber focused on him and my needs get pushed aside. God forbid I say anything either. Most of the time, sex with my husband is like doing the dishes. I get dirty and wet and everybody else benefits. lol

Last night, we had a successful interlude for the first time in a long time. I took complete control of everything. When he would go to do something, I would tell him to stop and lay back and relax. I put his hands where I wanted them and told him what to do with them.

I know another part of the problem is that my husband is too fat and out of shape to be on top or even try doggy style. He can't keep anything going in any position but laying on his back with me doing all of the work.

Aww VoC sorry to hear that  Mine was quite content with whining and feeling bad about it, but I told him he IS going to the doctor. I hope the meds work... .I'm afraid he will come up with some reason why he shouldn't take them anymore but I guess that's a battle for another day.

"The only problem is that things have to be uber focused on him and my needs get pushed aside. God forbid I say anything either" Ok... .the last attempt at sex he lost his erection and told me it was my fault for 'being too loud' and 'moving too much'. The next time... .I'll just lay there and shut up... .except when it's time for me to fake the orgasm, of course.

Trying to have sex with my husband is like a game of Twister but not in the fun way one would think. Right hand red... .Left foot blue... .no NONO I SAID BLUE. That's it... .moment's gone and it's ruined now.  

LOL! oh ColdEthyl I'm so sorry... .

I can relate to your Twister analogy with the circus act I have to perform with my ED/BPD older man - and still can't get the job done. I end up sitting in a little French maid outfit... .checking emails... .(sigh)

I'll try to give some of the male response... .although I don't claim I'm drawing from anything but myself... .

1. Watch the booze.  As I got older even a couple drinks could kill my longevity... .which sucks, because there's a medium area where a couple drinks my help start my engine, but affects my capabilities of finishing the race... .

(No comments about helping to start my engine... .2 drinks does wonders to get past a lot of BPD behaviors... .)

2. Watch the comments... .BPD can kill someone's self esteem.  However, we went through a period when, if I took longer than average, I'd get a 30 minute lecture on how I don't find her attractive.  Yes, you should be able to share your feelings, but just know the next time I get the smallest sense I'm taking longer than average the only thing going through my mind is "crap... .hurry up so I can avoid the 'talk'".  Not exactly the scenario for intimacy.

Watching the comments is a bit of a double edged sword. There for a while, I couldn't even say anything if he was accidentally pinching me. Anything that I said to help me finish the race was taken as criticism. I stopped talking at all for a period of time and took whatever I could get even if that meant that I didn't really get to cross the finish line.

And, I will admit that there was a period of time when I was completely convinced that my husband didn't find me attractive. I tried to ask him what I could do to make things better/easier for him. I tried to suggest different things and no matter what I said he would dismiss me. In my logical mind, the only conclusion seemed to be that he didn't find me attractive or that there was something wrong with me. Heck, his equipment would work when he was taking care of himself and looking at porn. His equipment seemed to work if I would fulfill his cuckold fantasies. He equipment would work if he was sexting other woman. But, it wouldn't work for him to have "normal" sex with his wife. During that period, he flat out told me that I just don't trip his trigger any more. He has since changed his mind. His behavior has been such that it is really easy for me to go down the rabbit hole of feeling like he doesn't find me attractive enough to be able to perform with me.

I went through that, too VoC when all of this started. Since then, I've come to realize that sex, just like everything else, has to get pushed through that BPD filter, which means it will come out distorted and usually leaves negative imprints on the pwBPD.

I still doubt and question whether it's me or not from time to time but I am human. The comments he made when this first started were very hurtful. I did explain that to him... .why I quit trying. He seemed to understand, at least at the time. He has said it's not me it's the way he thinks and sabotages himself.

@isitherorisitme I have thought about that, too. My H is a drinker but there is no way he would even attempt without drinking a little. It's about finding that balance, and I can cap that.

"2. Watch the comments... .BPD can kill someone's self esteem.  However, we went through a period when, if I took longer than average, I'd get a 30 minute lecture on how I don't find her attractive.  Yes, you should be able to share your feelings, but just know the next time I get the smallest sense I'm taking longer than average the only thing going through my mind is "crap... .hurry up so I can avoid the 'talk'".  Not exactly the scenario for intimacy."

I wish someone would tell them that rofl when someone tells you to stop moving because "this is all about them" it's gonna cause a problem lol

My fault here, I introduced the reaction of sex as a M with a w wBPD... .Most the talk is a w with a m wBPD.

I don't think my comments directly correlate with VoC, except in the defined subset of my experience... .

Leaving aside looking at porn or sexting other women (both wrong IMO and again, I'm attempting to address them)... .I'm so old-fashioned I had to look up the word cuckold... .but the way you used it I assume some sort of role playing where he's pretending you're not his spouse and he's hooking up with you... .

So, I guess my advice would be to either:

   1. Put a stop to it if that's outside your boundaries (it's something my w would never participate in)... .

   2. Embrace it as part of your sex life together... .so you participate in the role play, and never say anything negative about it.  So embracing it means maybe dressing up and "picking him up" at a bar, or whatever you two decide as long as you're not in any mental or physical danger. 

If half the time (or even 2% of the time) you role play you interject "You don't find me attractive unless I pretend I'm someone else" then go with #1.  In the long term you'll be shooting yourself in the foot.

A guy that is being cuckolded is being cheated on. There for a while he could only get excited if I went and saw another guy and then came home and told him about it.


It's not quite that easy. He did put me in mental and physical danger. I tried to say no but he badgered me until I gave in. I know that it is my fault for not setting and keeping proper boundaries. I try to keep in mind that it was my fault. I sometimes have a difficult time calling my husband by another man's name. My husband doesn't want it to be pretend role playing. It only works if it is real. Role playing that he is a repair guy and stuff like that doesn't work.

One year, I sent him off to take the kids to grandma's house. We set up the scenario so that when he got back he would knock on the door like he was there to fix something. I greeted him dressed all sexy and did the whole propositioning thing. My attempts fell flat and nothing worked. Like Jessica84 said earlier in the thread, you end up sitting there checking emails in a sexy outfit. I don't feel like it is lack of effort on my part. If anybody is not taking things seriously, it is my husband.

I don't want to hijack ColdEthyl's thread here. I can totally understand why getting her husband to go to the doctor and get the blue pill. I wonder if the blue pill works on mental ED.

If half the time (or even 2% of the time) you role play you interject "You don't find me attractive unless I pretend I'm someone else" then go with #1.  In the long term you'll be shooting yourself in the foot.[/quote]

When my wife and I first got married I was having problems.  So we grabbed some Viagra.  Viagra takes about an hour to work, but I would take the pill and the problem was immediately solved.  So yes, it can help with mental ED.   

Not to try to steer the course of flow in another direction but really scanning over the horizons of any issue helps to identify the obstacles that are dangerously laying in the water ahead and might just damage the hull if you don’t steer clear of them. It’s about woman’s awareness as compared to  men’s.

Men are ‘stump dumb’. Its neither intentional nor uncaring. It’s misconceptions and total ignorance.

For the most part we come up thought the years of false-awareness with one main use of educational tools and that’s porn. Hey we see superman performing often exaggerated feats of contortionist masochism  pounding a woman with vaginal sex and a result she writhes with sheer ecstasy on the bed in final respond. Whoa, job well done by Tarzan the woman’s man. Beat on the chest a bit in the perceived triumph, still pounding his chest while his woman lies in her own frustration.

It’s taken a long time before my woman really closely defined specific needs to come to orgasms. I’ll get a bit into my case; for so many years I had no idea that vaginal stimulation wasn’t her preferred source of seeking enlightenment. I did the other but she didn’t seem to really respond so much to it either. Vaginal  actually does nothing for her. She has a rigidly intense routine of clitoral stipulation and it’s so specific and so intricate in placement, timing, pressures and meeting them to something successful - well it’s a job, Good job I guess, if you can get the work. I’m contemplating a training manual though because it’s so complex and seems that little area likes to play hide and sneak and move from day to day.

Point being, again, men really are stump dump when it comes to these workings of their woman, All too often these things are left unsaid for a multitude of personal reasons. Women have to sometime grab a guy by the ears and lead him through your wants so he knows how to achieve them in the way you need him to. Right down to slower, no, more to the left corner.Higher - right therre - A bit lighter and faster…no the spot is right there (slight readjustment of the head) There…there …there. "When I start to feel it do it really quickly and lightly."

For whatever dysfunctional reason my wife thought I know how to make her happy, but just couldn’t be bothered and it lead as well to the ‘selfish’ statement put on her by someone else. I asked her how in the heck I would have any idea that’s what she preferred if she didn’t tell ? Answer “All men know how to please a woman.! Beeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppp – Nope, they don’t if you don’t tell them. Anyone here would be startled at the exact precision required to do the task and probably the difficulty and time frames it takes  takes to reach that, particularly with her meds intervening. Good work if you can find it and a tough job but you know what they say “When the going gets tough……….”

So honestly, maybe we should know in some other spectral owrld of non verbal communication, but until then ; with so many personally different methods for woman it’s just impractical to assume a man :Should know that.”

I think every man basically want to please but is just too dumb to know how to do that without really good assistance and learning.

Just food for thought so tackling the idea of better sex for you has to be you who takes the lead and defines that.

Hey cold ethyl your idea of him stepping up to your needs first is great but teach him how to do that well. The better he gets and the more he can please you the more stimulating it is going to be and give him time to feel that excitement and driving force affecting his performance. That’s a good plan for the problem at hand and I hope it works for you.

Yup, might be an emotional inhibition but even if a pill works as a placebo it still works so if there are no conflicting side-effects, why not? Just don’t kid him about his tongue being blue, or maybe you should.

Wish you luck when the day comes ColdEthyl. Got the duct tape handy by the door?

Hmm... .DW is always making suggestions we go to Vegas, hire a hooker and have a threesome, and makes a hobby out of selecting women from town, mothers of classmates of our kids, etc, that I could "do". I've always taken this as somewhat bad-taste humor from her, but your post makes me wonder... .

Anyway, as a 50-ish male, I have to say that your H should absolutely NOT be taking care of his needs himself. Even though he may not realize, this will totally screw up how his brain processes arousal and condition him to be aroused from Internet sources rather than his spouse. One way or another he needs to stop that activity. One suggestion might be that you make an agreement that you participate in that side of his romantic life, initially, then transition over time to ultimately the external stimuli are removed? Don't know enough about your situation to know if this is practical (his issues do seem to be all mental in nature if the "master of his own domain" thing is working for him).

How does a woman communicate with a man that takes any kind of leading as criticisms? Telling him to move to the left or the right results in him getting frustrated and losing interest. 


That is how I feel about my husband. When I asked other guys for ideas, I was told stuff like, "Tell him what you want." ---wrong answer. That requires him to actually listen to what I want.

Show up naked with beer---wrong answer

Indulge in his fantasies and don't complain---wrong answer

Turn yourself upside down and backwards and whistle Dixie out of your butthole. . .


I completely disagree with this statement. I can honestly say that my husband does not have the desire to please. Most of the time, he doesn't even try. No matter how much learning or assistance I have tried to give him, it isn't there. It isn't about being dumb. It is about him wanting and needing his release. I can't even have my period without him getting upset. I can be doubled over with cramps and he will be grumpy. I found out that the reason is that he is busy worried about getting his needs met.

I can dig the uber focus being on you partner's pleasures. I can't even have music on because it's too distracting. My solution to that, and ColdEthyl is going along those lines, and that to take on the routine of him meeting your needs before he works, or you work on meeting his. I can dig Ethyl's needs only too well and that would probably work well for them. A bit routine from time to time but it works.

I meet my wife's needs first becase that works for us and have to watch sensitivities for her later in what we do though.

A bit difficult to orchestrate and leading gently with gestures an reations can easily take the place of " alittle to the left" if that's the case.

No doubt in my mind though if he's healthy enough to take Viagara or one of the other enhancers he should try it. You have what to lose and everything to possibly gain? If he doesn't want to get it they also precrible it to women as an ehancer as long as you know it's safe for him to take.

I really feel for the weight thing and his limited restrictions. There is some pretty good infor on the web on different positions that would allow him to step up to taking the control action better if he's up to you printing them out and him trying them though.


I'm a bit perplexed though. How could "Show up naked with beer---wrong answer" be a bad answer?  :)

And, in my albeit fairly limited experience, different women are typically quite different in their preferences (the user manual is model-specific). So even if a man did know innately how to please one women, there's zero chance his approach would be successful with a second.

"Hey cold ethyl your idea of him stepping up to your needs first is great but teach him how to do that well. The better he gets and the more he can please you the more stimulating it is going to be and give him time to feel that excitement and driving force affecting his performance. That’s a good plan for the problem at hand and I hope it works for you.

Yup, might be an emotional inhibition but even if a pill works as a placebo it still works so if there are no conflicting side-effects, why not? Just don’t kid him about his tongue being blue, or maybe you should."

He's really good at sex and oral. That's not the problem. When he does give me oral, he does get hard and excited. He just is afraid to do anything after that because he's afraid of failure.


VoC... .exactly. There's good suggestions here, guys but I think you guys are forgetting one simple que. Our men have BPD. So for us, communicating what we want=invalidation. They will claim to want this or that... .but when given this or that the results are the same.

That's the problem VoC and I share. It's trying to get past the BPD.

Until you have put yourself out there... .doing anything to get your spouse to pay attention... .to do exactly what they said they needs from you to get interested... .only to have them feign tiredness and roll over and put their back to you... .no. I would say no, you have no idea how that turns into a bad answer.

I'm sorry if I'm being snarky... .it's not my intent. But this is painful for us... .for me and VoC. I know what she has gone through also. You do everything they say they want... .and it's not enough. It's never enough.

Hey ColdEthyl:

I probably shouldn't have responded with the quip included. It was intended to be complimentary, I guess it was poorly thought out.

I, like you, have all the best laid out plans totally ignored or put down as well for every reason imaginable. I do know the hurt and frustration of it.

I know and I'm sorry. It feels like every man out there would love of all of this attention... .except the man I want to have it. My case in point. We talked about sex the other day, we agreed to give it a go this evening. So, like he said before... .I have tried to do some sexting before I get home to get the mood going.

Me: I sent a pic with the caption "Can you help me? My p***** is aching."

Him: I may have a solution for that. Does it require my attention?

Me: It really really does. Are ou going to kiss it and make it feel better?

Him:There's an app for that, its free btw (uhhh... .ok... .)

I try to salvage

Me: Ya it's called iHusbandc***

Him: Curious... .I thought it was called #b****makemeasandwich (seriously?)

Again... .I try to salvage

Me: That's the app for after. Usually the user are hungry after using the iHusband app. If the iHusband app was uses properly, #B*****makemeasandwich will work without any flaws. However, trying to use that app before the other will make the system crash... .and pissed.

Him: And that's why I married you. I get where you are coming from.

I tried again. He's sidestepping me.

Me: Oh, you know exactly where I'm coming from. I want you bad. I want to feel your tongue flicking across my clit, I want to fell your d*** fill my P*****. My P***** is throbbing thinking about it.

Him: Craig Ferguson says that's dirty.

... .

... .

... .

I give up. I sit her... .feeling like an idiot. Again. Feeling rejected. Again.

Ignore the craig ferguson thing, and come up with your next text/come on.  Don't give up, because he will give up if you do too.  Get that beotch where you want him!

Oh my goodness, ColdEthyl... .

I can relate to feeling inadequate during the time my H was uninterested in me. He was very critical of me sexually. It took a toll on my self esteem.

I too did a lot to get his attention. Victoria Secrets, and such, only to feel demoralized. I really gave up. Not sure if that's a good idea either.

It's my H who has tried to bring the spice into the marriage, but having lost my confidence it is difficult to get it back.

How about you don't react in a negative way to the texts? That would have been my first response, to feel hurt and rejected but believe you are an awesome sexy woman no matter what... .

At this point you have nothing to loose but keep it going- his negativity will not work!

yes, honey, I'm a dirty dirty girl and I want what I want... ... .. What do you want?

He'll probably side step this, but it would be interesting to not let up.

Cross posted with Dyinglove-and we came to the same conclusion.  Don't let him throw you off course here. He's just probably terrified he won't live up to your wishes.

Amen. We are not exactly dealing with the typical man eager to please, if only he knew how. Any time I've given "instructions" it has led to him feeling criticized, a failure, a lousy lover, humiliated, ashamed, angry, demeaned... .ColdEthyl is right. Even talking about (or during) sex has to be run thru the BPD filter.

Oh gosh, I have done that too. Asked for something I want and it is a criticism, or an order.

I won't tell him at all how I feel. Doing so will only cause a dysregulation and I'd much rather just go home, talk about our days and watch TV rather than try to force him to have sex with me.

After that Craig Ferguson remark, I said "I am more interested in how you feel about it" And he replied with "Craig Ferguson said I should hit it. I CONCUR." Then I said "Are you going to make me moan, baby?" He said "I have never had a problem doing that." Then right after "the ambulance is at the neighbors house. Looks bad."

And it went off topic from there. SQUIRREL!

As I read the details of your sexting with him, I laughed, I cried, and I wanted to give you the biggest hug possible.    I soo know what you have gone through.

When I was at my lowest point a couple of years ago, I talked to some guys online. They would give me ideas. I know they must have thought that I was lying or exaggerating or something because I had tried everything that they suggested and then some. I will never forget some of the guys' responses. One or two of them were, "I'd give a left nut to have a wife like you." I don't know how many guys said that my husband must be gay to get the attention that I give him and STILL not act interested or be able to perform.

One time, we went to a friend's house. They know that we have 4 kids and never get out. They offered to give us some alone time for you know what. He declined. I was irritated. Even if his equipment isn't working, he can still pay attention to me. I don't think his equipment has ever had a problem working when given a BJ or hand job. lol I feel like I am disgusting or something because it seems to work as long as I don't want to have penetrative sex.

This sounds to me like your H has a problem with direct requests and also expressing his sexual feelings- like he has some shame associated with them. His avoiding the topic to me is because he is feeling uncomfortable- but that is his issue not about you.

I think my H did a lot of expecting me to know what he wanted, but not saying it, so I was clueless. If I was direct about it he took it as an insult. As I posted before, he got that blue pill without telling me because he was embarrassed, but I was angry about being left clueless. As I posted before, I knew something was up, when something was up.  lol  But since I had been painted black before for not meeting his expectations, this raised my anxiety up a notch.

I also felt that if we are to be physically intimate, then discussing this is part of the emotional intimacy. We are both middle age, not teenagers, and this isn't an unusual topic for people our age.

VoC,


Yep I know it. I've heard the same things before also.


When we talked he said sex has always been weird and awkward for him. He talked about how his ex-wife was aggressive and he liked it because he isn't aggressive. I think... .though... .he's not thinking about the fact he was married to his first wife in his 20s. So, perhaps now... .that aggressiveness is just making him nervous.

And that's what I told him. I try to be aggressive... .I try sexting... .I try things he says but this is how he reacts. With fear. I mean it... .in person he sometimes looks like I'm going to hurt him.

Just to help me better to understand here


That you are trying to be aggressive or you validated that he is anxious?

When we had our big talk, I told him when I try to be aggressive/sext/whatever he tells me he needs me to do, he reacts anxiously. He said he never has done that, give him an example. I provided one, then that's when he said sex has always been weird for him.

Hmm,

fear is a big thing for pwBPD and also for ED. He got that problem squared. Have you tried validating insecurity and sharing your own insecurities?

Yep for years. This last talk was the first time he expressed his fears, which is a good step in the right direction, though.

Glad to have seen this thread. My BPDh has had low testosterone for years, and when we first met he told me about his ED. It's funny, he told me all about his ED, but he hid his anger and crazy mood swings, go figure. Now that he's diagnosed, I'm thinking there is a correlation between the ED and his BPD? Everything is seen through the BPD filter it seems.

When we were separated, but working on getting back together, he dropped the bomb that he wanted to get into BDSM, have sex with an Asian woman, and have a threesome. I researched and we did some BDSM together, but he quickly lost interest. He confessed that while we were separated, he sought out the girl he'd dated before me(he'd never told me she was a dominatrix), and he slept with her several times. I will not do a threesome, and he says he's over his Asian fetish, but who knows. One thing I do know is that he gets off by hurting me during sex, so I was not shocked about the BDSM as much as the other stuff. I always knew he could get off when he hurt me, so I stopped letting him know when he was hurting me.

His ED has never been a huge problem, but I think his mindset sure is. I don't enjoy being hurt during sex, and he with holds sex because he's angry. He's also regularly pretty sexually selfish. I'd never encountered that before. As soon as we started having sex, I noticed it, and addressed it with him. He went on and on about how much he'd wanted to pleasure his ex, and he had books and CD's still in his bedroom, so I was baffled as to why he didn't care like that with me? I've come to the conclusion that he's just sexually selfish at times, as he's pretty narcissistic, and he's probably resentful that I won't let him hurt me during sex(or let on that he sometimes still does)... .

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one dealing with BPD, and ED.

Wow blue, you sure have had a lot to deal with  I'm glad mine isn't out of anger... .but it is fear.

I came home to him have drank a pint of whiskey, and still had a little. He talked about everything under the sun for about an hour, and passed out. I am eating s'mores pop tarts and watching scrubs on Netflix.

I need to figure out how to handle his amount of anxiety and fear.

Is your husband taking any medications that could cause ED as a side effect?  This could be part of the problem, his age could be a factor, alcohol can be a factor... .I guess what I'm trying to say is be sure to have possible physical issues/causes also checked don't just assume that his issue is just psychological it could be something else or it could be a combination of things.

Viagra works very nicely for my SO... .he has a vision side effect everything takes on a pink cast for a little while. 

Cold Ethyl. I am so sorry this is what you came home to. 

I know this would feel hurtful, but it isn't about you, but his fears.

I have a question. I don't know if you or anybody else will have an answer. Viagra makes their equipment work without fail. Does that somehow impact the ability for the partner to get more pleasure?

The equipment working isn't going to remove the selfishness and lack of attention to me. I am speaking from experience as when we first experimented with opening up our marriage, his equipment started working again. Almost out of the blue. We did it 7 times one day and almost every time was pretty much wham, bam, without the thank you ma'am. I won't lie. It was a lot of fun. The problem was that I didn't get any release any of those times because every time was so quick. I am wondering if I should start a new thread about that. Not sure how to even broach the topic.

There are studies that have shown that Viagra helps with premature ejaculation, but I don't know how much the mental/emotional/motivation factors in the men made a difference. Viagra doesn't change emotions and personality traits. Someone only focusing on himself is going to do that with or without Viagra.

As we all know, it isn't just about equipment, otherwise we would all be happy with something mechanical: works all the time, any time. Sexual satisfaction is also emotional. I think a loving healthy mutual physical relationship would remain that way, even during times of equipment malfunction. Viagra can help the equipment, and it can also restore confidence/reduce anxiety, but I don't think it changes personality traits.

Doesn't this statement assume that vaginal penetration is the ONLY sexual behavior "permissible" for a man to have an orgasm?

If most women can't have an orgasm with vaginal penetration, they aren't considered broken.  Why is a man?

Masturbation is THE sex a man has been doing since his awakening.

Masturbation is the sex a man has been doing since his awakening.

Actually, masturbation starts in very young childhood- years before the awakening- in most human beings.

I find advice that suggests this activity be stopped in favor of another activity is short sighted.  A person's masturbation is that person's PRIMARY sexual behavior.  Sexual maturity and health comes when other activities, involving another human being are added, and the sex acts are shared.

Can you be present during his masturbation?

Can you share in his masturbation?

Could you consider that intimate enough to be "sex" ? 

If you could truly be present in his masturbation, and he yours, and there was no vaginal penetration, would that be sex?

A person with BPD is emotionally immature, and so therefore, MANY with BPD are sexually immature.  The most immature sexual behavior is masturbation- we all do it even before there is the capacity to orgasm (The awakening).  We are kidding ourselves if we think we will EVER have an emotionally mature relationship with our SO wBPD, right?  It is not going to happen.  We get what we get.  Maybe it is the same with sex?

Maybe, mutual masturbation is the best we get?

I don't know, but I do know that it is normal and healthy to masturbate.  To say that a man being unable to function within the definition of sex being vaginal penetration until orgasm because he masturbates, seems to miss the fact that healthy sex is BOTH.  Vaginal penetration cannot and should not be viewed as the mature "replacement" for masturbation in a sexual healthy adult.  Vaginal penetration can and should be viewed as one of many mature "additions" to masturbation in a sexual healthy adult.

I think that most of us believe, mistakenly, that vaginal penetration is the ONLY healthy sexual activity for adults.  That is just not true.

Can we do more to share in our partner's whole spectrum of sexual activity?  What would that look like?  Could we consider it "sex"?  Physical intimacy? Rewarding / Fulfilling?

I do not live in a sexually healthy relationship.  I am trying to stay in a monogamous heterosexual relationship that views sex as forbidden.  Talking about sex is forbidden.  My masturbation, even, is forbidden.  I would welcome company in my masturbation activity, and would easily consider that more sexually rewarding and intimate than doing it alone.

What we see as "withholding" may not be withholding at all- that behavior we wish would be shared- may not be a comfortable activity that our partner is even capable of.  Sex (vaginal penetration until male orgasm) is not part of a 3 year old's experience, and emotionally, our BPD's internal emotional lives seem to be fixated at toddlers level.  They may just not be capable of enjoying and fully participating in this activity, as a emotionally mature, giving / considerate / thoughtful adult.

When a person with BPD does engage in mature sexual activity (vaginal penetration until male orgasm), they are still emotionally stunted and not experiencing the behavior as we "non's" experience it.  It is a behavior being used by an emotional 3 year old, to get something an emotional 3 year old wants (avoid abandonment, to control the partner, etc).  We cannot expect that the BPD turns off during sex.  It just can't.

I don't know... .

I just wish I was married to some of the women who are posting here, I guess.

Take care of yourself today-

Surg_Bear

Surg- bear brings up an interesting point- emotional maturity and sex. If an adult was to have sex with a young child, it would be considered abuse. I think we all know that when children are sexually abused, they have emotional trauma, shame,guilt, and other issues. Some pwBPD may have been abused sexually as children.

If someone with BPD has arrested development, is their experience of sex somewhat traumatic to them? They may like the physical aspect, but where are they emotionally? They may understand that sex is something that can attract a partner, but once in a relationship, how do the emotions play in? I can recall when my parents told me the facts of life when I was a kid. My girl friends and I thought that was the grossest thing ever. Boys were gross! Do our partners feel that way sometimes- yet they also are in adult bodies with mature sex drives- which may lead to a lot of ambivalent and confusing emotions.

In my 12 step group, we discuss the concept of religious abuse ( as separate from religion) and members have been subjected to this. It is when abusive families use religion abusively. Many religions have something to say about sex and masturbation. Many consider sex to be desirable in a marriage, but still can have different ideas about it. In religious abuse, children could be subjected to twisted interpretations of this and shamed for their sexual desires, masturbation, their bodies, told sex is dirty or bad. Many of us, and also our partners, can carry these issues into relationships.

Although ED can be an issue on it's own, in a healthy relationship it may not have as much of an impact as it does when there are problems in the relationship.

Let me throw in another angle while we are talking about emotional maturity and boundaries.

We get very deeply involved in our partners - more than it is healthy. Our relationship is enmeshed with few boundaries. Some of us are even pushed into the role of real care-takers and parents.

How can there be sexual tension and spark if there are no boundaries? If there is no respect?

I remember sexuality in my relationship shifted a lot when boundaries came back.

Confidence too.

With boundaries I am less affected by other's opinions and feelings. I can tell when they are not about me, and so I do not take them as personally. With better boundaries, my H feels more comfortable around me too.

Sex could also bring up fear of engulfment. My H's family ( and mine ) are pretty enmeshed and I think dysfunctional couples are too. The push pull dynamics can be at play with both desire for, and repulsion, with sex.

Caretaking affects desire. My H wanted a lot of caretaking- cooking for him, doing the things his mother did for him, but when I did, he tended to be mean to me. He may like what his mother did for him, but he doesn't want to have sex with his mother. I also didn't feel attraction to someone who I was treating like a kid. Co-dependency helped me see the distinction between caretaking and simply doing nice things for someone. They can even be the same action- like cooking dinner, but where before I was doing it so he would not be angry ( co-dependency) I can do it without that fear. I can also say if I don't want to cook if I don't and we can order in or go out. ( as budget allows) Before I would fear saying that.

Boundaries have made a difference in our overall relationship, so hopefully it will make a difference in intimacy as well. This has been some recent progress and so it needs more time to tell.

I am not sure what statement it is that is being referenced. In my situation, I have tried all sorts of different situations and scenarios. I can pleasure my husband to orgasm in a lot of different ways. It isn't about what is or isn't permissible. I want to have a shared sexual experience with my husband where my needs are given as much consideration as his needs. I have tried all sorts of things.


I am not sure how this is relevant. If a woman couldn't get excited by her husband no matter what he did, then there is a problem. It isn't about penetration or not. It is about the sum total of a situation where a wife has tried all sorts of things to help her husband. In the process, her needs have been ignored. I understand that it is ultimately her fault because she didn't speak up correctly or didn't have proper boundaries or didn't do something correctly.


And if a man has spent his entire life being told that masturbation is evil and sinful, then he is going to feel a lot of guilt and shame. If a man is routinely told that he must confess when he masturbates, that isn't going to lead to good things when he is an adult. No matter how natural and normal I think masturbation is, that isn't going to take away the shame that my husband feels about masturbation. My husband cannot participate in mutual masturbation. We tried it a few times and he was horrified. I could tell by the look on his face that he was completely disgusted by it.


Nope, it isn't short sighted in my opinion. If masturbation is a person's primary sexual behavior, then why get in a relationship at all. Why not just go f**k yourself regularly and forget that anybody else exists? I never asked my husband to stop masturbating all together. All I asked was for him to slow down or knock it off long enough for the two of us to have sex that is mutually satisfying. He couldn't/wouldn't have sex with me because he had already taken care of things for himself. Is it selfish to occasionally want to have enjoyable sex with your spouse?


How would you view masturbating in the bathroom at work because you can't control your urges? How would you view masturbating every chance you got? How would you view choosing to masturbate instead of being sexual with a spouse. I am not talking about JUST penetrative sex either. I am talking about sexual situations where my husband realizes that I exist and seems to have some level of concern/care/interest in my level of satisfaction.


I am not sure that I could do any more to share in his spectrum of sexual activity/interests. We tried an open marriage. He said he was bisexual and wanted to try things with a man but was afraid. Guess what, I arranged a threesome for him so he could try things out with another guy with me there. He was too afraid to do it otherwise. I get really, really exhausted with the claim that somehow I am not doing something right. After all, if a woman has done everything "right", surely the man will respond.

Vortex, I think you have done as much as anyone could do to have a good physical relationship with your H. I think at some level he has to know this, and appreciate the effort. I hope this gets better for you.

I think it is tragic for young people to be shamed for what happens physiologically with their bodies at puberty. Puberty prepares them for reproduction long before they are able to be functioning adults in society. We all know that sex isn't just for that, but biology dictates their hormones exactly for that. As much as I value religion for giving us an ethical basis for life- we aren't animals and we should hopefully not behave like animals in heat- going too far and making kids feel that the normal function of their bodies is evil and sinful is setting them up for a lot of self shame.

There is a place for shame- we could feel shame if we hurt someone or stole something, but the deep shameful self hatred that is learned in some dysfunctional families is a serious issue.

I'm sorry I have only read the first two pages and most recent two posts, but they're all fascinating.

I'm one of the 20-25% of women who climax regularly from intercourse alone. Not that it is a great thing—it has made me more likely to become obsessed and/or bonded with partners who aren't good for me.

My uBPDh still doesn't reach orgasm more than half the time. It doesn't make me feel unattractive because he usually has no problem with initial arousal. The train gets lost in the tunnel. Taking some Viagra (he chews off the edge of a pill because it's so expensive) increases his chances of finishing but it's not a guarantee.

I tell him to "surrender" as a joke, because the inability to climax is like his refusal to give in to me totally. He denies me that extra intimacy of seeing him lose control. Often he tells me that it is not so important that he finish each time, but when he doesn't, it means that he will want to try again the very next time we are alone. If I'm satisfied, I feel like "I'm good" for another day or two. So it becomes a way of both prolonging and postponing intimacy.

Until recently, my husband didn't even realize that there was dysfunctional stuff going on in his family. He grew up going to private schools and his family was well respected in the community. His parents went to all of his games and, from the outside, looked perfectly normal.

I was sexually abused as a child and my husband wasn't. The difference is that I was never shamed about sex and he was. He was beat over the head with the idea that masturbation is a sin. He was beat over the head with the idea that every sperm is sacred. A man receiving a BJ is considered an mortal sin in his religion. In his religion, the only place that a man's seed belongs is inside his wife's nether regions. I have done extensive reading about his religion's views on sex. When he wanted to strictly follow his religion, I respected that and did not encourage him to do anything that would violate that. When he decided to abandon his religion and wanted to experiment more, I supported that as well. I have know for a long time that nothing that I do will erase that deep seated shame and self hatred that he has for himself.

I brought up the idea of the blue pill and he isn't interested in it. He doesn't think that it would help because it won't address the underlying psychological issues that he says he has. It would probably give him more reasons to feel bad/guilty/shame/etc.

I never bring up the blue pill. It scares me. His father died at a young age of a heart attack, and he is already past that age of when his father passed. I've heard of the effects these can have on the heart and worry he is already one cheeseburger away from one himself. I'd rather deal with a sexually-frustrated man... .than bury a satisfied one. :'(

Another issue at play could be fear that the Viagra won't work.

@Surg_Bear

You bring up really good points... .points I did not consider until after my H opened up to me. He is emotionally immature and traumatized by his childhood. For me, the first few years of our sex life had no issues at all, it wasn't until things got 'serious' for us, that's when the issues arose.

Taking that into consideration, for awhile I thought it was me. He lost interest... .the excitement for him was gone, but it wasn't for me. I missed my husband, I still do.

Now, I can see it's fear and anxiety. He's afraid of not living up to some standard he set for himself. In his mind... .like everything else in his life... .he expects things to go A... .B... .C. If they don't, it's chaos for him. Simple things like not finding a certain frying pan in the cupboard where he expects it to be will throw him off... .how could I expect something like this not to affect him poorly?

In reference to the masturbation reference... .that's the part that has bothered him the most. He cannot finish by himself, either. Now... .the same stuff is still going through his head IE he's thinking wow... .I better finish... .it's not going to happen etc etc So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy... .something our pwBPD are really really good at.

What I am hoping is with the pill, we can take the fear of not finishing/staying hard off of the table. If we can do that... .maybe we can work on the rest of it together.

My husband is not a selfish lover. I am lucky in that aspect. I am sorry, VoC that it is like that for you. If I ask, my H will take care of me sexually. But I miss the intimacy from before. Maybe it was never real... .maybe it will not come back. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. If we try everything and he can't do it... .well then he can't do it. I won't expect him to do something he physically can't do, but I do expect him to try to work on things with me. So far, he's doing that.

He apologized last night about Friday. He said my sexting made him nervous... .he thought he would like it but he doesn't. He put pressure on himself to perform, and it just spiraled. I told him he never has to do anything that makes him uncomfortable. We will work on things slowly together, and let's not worry about it until after the doctor's visit.

The fact he's talking to me about this makes me feel 1,000 times better.

Correct, Panda. His anxiety and fear are the biggest players in this, and those guys will tell you anything to freak you out.

Quick update... .we have an appointment this Thursday. It's probably just going to be an intake appointment, and it will take them 6-8 weeks or so after that to get the auths from Indian Health and get his testing and such done, but it's a start. I hope like hell he doesn't try to flake out.

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .