BPDFamily.com

When responding to a thread yesterday I mused that a BPD relationship might be ideal for someone looking for excitement but not a LTR - and that got me thinking.  There's an old saying that suggests that to avoid a bad hangover, another shot of the drink that made you feel bad is a potential remedy (hence the title of this thread).

My question is, if 6 months or more on you're still suffering from the 'hangover' of your failed BPD relationship, might a potential cure be another relationship with a pwBPD?   The reason why we are so devastated in the aftermath of the relationship is that we fully bought into the vision of the future they were selling us. If we had another relationship with a different pwBPD, might that not dislodge our current SO from our thoughts whilst we are free to enjoy the new idealization phase, protected by the knowledge that 'we won't get fooled again'?

Apologies if I'm offending anyone with this - that's not my intention. But for some people, maybe a controlled blast of BPD might provide the stimulus to remove the shackles of the past and finally move forward. A sort of 'shock therapy' treatment if you like. 

Thoughts guys?

Possible, but only if you could dump them before devaluation started.

That's exactly my point Beach_Babe. We'd recognise the red flags from the off, but at the first sign of real toxicity we could exit the relationship at that juncture. It might actually be empowering as that's what we really should have done first time around but we didn't know what we were dealing with then. 

My first thought was "hell no"... .the thought of getting tangled up with another pwBPD be it as a friendship or romantic relationship makes me shudder lol

Second thought is I'm wondering if you are onto something.  I would love nothing more for the thoughts of my exBPD BFF to be gone from my mind at the moment.  

The only thing I would be concerned about with another pwBPD is getting sucked completely in again lol  

Maybe a relationship with a pwBPD online would be safer?  

Isnt that just as bad behaviour as what hurt us?

Some believe Bpd's do indeed fall deeply in 'love' or their version of it from the start would we not be damaging them even more?

Just a thought 

Hadlee - there are 2 preconditions to this concept:

1) You're in a bad place and have nothing to lose

2) You get what BPD is all about and have defence mechanisms in place.

Even then it would be tricky as most people who post on here are almost too nice for their own good.  :)

Mitatsu

I don't think it would be bad behaviour on a nons part. Isn't it just enforcing boundaries from the off? Sure, the pwBPD couldn't play out their full cycle as we'd leave at the start of devaluing and not get as far as them discarding us - but might this not help them learn some much needed lessons too? 

Just to reiterate, I am not trolling with this thread - this is just an idea that I find worthy of debate!  *)

3 months after my relationship ended, I had 2 short relationship with 2 pwBPD girls. The first one was 3 months after my break up and the second one was 10 months after the break up. Both relationship last only 2 months. I seen all the red flags from the begining till the end. I ended the relationship during the idolization stage, both of them. A lot of push and pull right off the start, a lot of fear of abandonment and things got off very fast.

After all that, both the relationship reminded me of my ex. It doesnt feel good and everything seems and feel so familiar. What I have learn from my experiment is that i knew what is coming next, every red flag was anticipated before it happens. I have also learn that after the end of the relationship (experiment r/s), they will come back and stalk or contact you that is unlike my ex.

If you are to start a r/s with pwBPD as a rebound, it cannot work. If it is for experimental purpose, don't get attached and you are able to see how things unfold very fast.

Exactly!  

Thanks FannyB - your post has really made me think about things.  And do you know what?  For the first time this weekend I'm thinking about my own behavior rather than my pwBPD, thanks to you :)

I'm actually thinking about how I would handle another pwBPD now I know what I know.  Could I walk away in the middle of idealization or would the addiction to that take hold?  I'm just not sure.  Plus, I'm a softy and a sucker for a hard luck sob story - that's what got me to when I am now :)  So with a waif... .I'd be buggered!

Oh and as a side note... .the movie 'Stalker' has just started on the telly!  Yeah, that could be a sign for me not to play with the devil again lol

Hadlee

Glad to be of assistance.   I'm an inquisitive bugger and exploring these concepts really helps me as I consider whether I want to date again. I've had (what I suspect now to be) BPD gfs in the past and whilst it was tough, it was nowhere near as traumatic as with the last one as she's the only one I fully committed to.  On the flip side, I've noted several posters say that 'vanilla' relationships don't cut it for them after getting off the BPD rollercoaster of love.  Still plenty of learning for all of us to do methinks!  :)

Sirius

Thanks for sharing this. Did you meet these borderlines online?  Forgot that stalking is a potential by-product of leaving a BPD relationship prematurely! 

No.  I can't see how this creates anything positive.  Our refusal to look at ourselves and resolve our own internal issues are not going to be solved by anyone else.  I also detest the idea of using and even profiting from the profound suffering of another human being.  The way out is to focus on ourselves.  There is a reason we are stuck.  We need to find it.  Jumping into another relationship (BPD or not) is only putting off doing the work of healing.   |iiii

I also suspect that my most significant romantic relationship was with a BPD who displayed very strong narc traits.  My goodness... .he totally did a number on me.  

One thing I do have to thank my exBPD BFF for is opening my eyes to personality disorders.  Without her I would not have found the missing piece of the puzzle as to what on earth happened in my relationship all those years ago.  

I must say though, the experience with my exBPD BFF has caused much more pain than that of my (suspected) exBPD boyfriend.  Even after being head over heels in love with the exbf and even losing a baby, I've suffered more at the hands of the BFF.  Perhaps that's due to time - I was with him for a year, however had been best friends with her for 4 years.  It also could have to do with the fact I still see the ex friend as we work for the same company whereas I left the country where my exbf lives and went complete NC.  


Yeah I think that's true.  The guys I dated after the suspected BPD were lovely enough, however the relationships felt boring in comparison.  I now realize there is A LOT to be said for a 'boring' relationship :)


 

Isn't there also potential for stalking during the devaluation stage?  Especially, if they start idealizing again?

Hadlee

I think it's a timing issue too. The longer you spend with them, the farther they worm themselves into your psyche. If you took drugs for 4 years it would obviously be harder to recover from than if you only took them for a year. Same principle really! 

Cosmonaut

Thanks for your reply. I am sure this would be view of the majority of posters on this database - the establishment view, if you like. I am not saying you're wrong at all, but I am thinking of those that simply won't heal however hard they try.  Surely there's got to be some hope for them other than 'more of the same'?   We are all different and I am just trying to explore whether there are any 'alternative remedies' out there. 

I was suffering from depression many years ago and it took a shock event to 'blast' me out of it. Was just thinking along the same lines here.

Fanny

LOL Hell no!

I have never experienced anything like this before. I have had breakups but nothing like this. Prior to my Colorado ex, I had experienced what I thought was the worst breakup of all time. It was the anger I experienced of that ex that catapulted me into my relationship with the pwBPD/NPD.

A bit of advice for all of you. The first month or so at times was magical. It was like I finally met the right person. The explosion and months of fall out have not been worth it.

The only way I believe you can truly heal is go through the fall out and slowly rebuild. Yes, that is the hard way. It has been extremely hard. I think you need to have the ability to recognize your codependant traits and see the people with PD's.

No, I did not meet them online. I met my ex online tho. I stayed away from online dating sites. I met them both in a bar i use to go. And after that, I went on to meet women that was healthy too as well as BPD traits type, I can see the obvious on the first meet. It also seems that they are attracted to me  like they are seeking a caretaker. A lot of sob stories that they are the victim and immediately want to latch on and the next thing is demanding to be taken care of after a week or less. The texting is almost every hour or so. The same kind of dance, the same kind of stories and everything is so familiar.

At 6 months post b/u I was still "suffering from the hangover" of my (8 year) BPD r/s. I was feeling better at times, but surprised at how the pain could still creep up on me.

About 3 months post b/u I tried to start dating - I met someone, dated for close to two months, and realized that I was emotionally exhausted and in no way ready for a new r/s.  I decided to take a year off of dating, continue to see my T and work on understanding myself.

I'm now 10 months post b/u and those four additional months have made ALL the difference.  I feel good, I'm enjoying my life, I'm ready to date, and when I think of my ex it's more with a sadness that belongs to my past.

Rather than the "quick fix" of another r/s (especially with a pwBPD, which brings a boatload of hellish pain), do the work on yourself - try to determine what kept you in a r/s with someone who couldn't reciprocate so you don't unintentionally repeat your last r/s.

I can't imagine wanting to repeat it intentionally.

There's nothing inherently wrong with trying to think outside the box.  The reason that most members won't heal, however, is that they refuse to let go and address their own core wound.  I see this over and over again on the forum.   And I understand why.  I went through it myself.  It's hard to let go of someone we not only love, but also someone who was providing tremendous soothing to a deep core wound inside of us.  This may not be universally true, but in my experience here it is an overwhelming theme.  The truth is that for most of us, we are not so very different from our ex.  We also needed their soothing.  We are raging at the loss of our idealization and mirroring.  We are seeking to put off the agony of being returned to the state prior to the relationship when we did not have this, and were all alone with the pain.  This is why the bond is so loaded.  This is why it hurts so much.  Going back to the well is not going to fix this anymore than a pwBPD finding the next partner will fix things for them.  That's what is so important to realize, and why we have to focus on ourselves.  I have seen this with my own eyes in my own self.  This is not just theory for me.  I've lived it, and the reason I am here is to try and help others in that process as the senior members helped me in my own journey.

|iiii

There's a lot wisdom here, cosmonaut.

Cosmonaut

I know it's not just theory - there's plenty of evidence to show it works in practice on these very boards. However, it's extremely unlikely that it will work for everyone. If you're one of the few it won't work for, then I still think you deserve an alternative shot at redemption - whatever form that may take.

Fanny

Yes, absolutely (as far as excitement). I know this has been true for me.

However, it's not easy to find a BPD that ticks the right boxes... .for me, anyway. Takes some time cause she also have to be smart, etc etc. So in my experience it just takes some time for the right one to come along.


You're absolutely right. I actually delete all old pictures after my last BPD ex once they are replaced by a NEW BPD ex... .

And yes, the first disappointment was the worst for me simply because I thought the whole thing was real. The next ones I HOPED were real but I also knew my taste in women so I knew that there was a high likelihood of the whole thing coming crashing down.

So, when it happened, I wasn't upset.

I think I was in love not with a particular person but with a dream. And that first time of course is the most memorable one.

But let me tell you, first cut is the deepest. I have had fun with other BPD people but none of them came close to the excitement of the very first one.

In part it's because I was so young, in part because I really believed the whole thing was real.

Don't get me wrong, every BPD fantasy is beautiful and unforgettable in its own way.

But the first time was... .wow. As far as feelings for a woman go, that was the absolute peak.

I think BPD women like me so much because I match their emotional intensity and vice versa.

This is the trick. If you at least SUSPECT this is not real... .then even when the devaluation starts, you are ready for it, you have been through this before.

I just lost the "love of my life" (another one) and I'm not suffering... .I've been through it before.

I agree with that too.

I certainly don't want to use or hurt anyone and I would never do that.

For me personally, I need to BELIEVE on some level that the relationship has long term potential.

So, I would never consciously say "I know this isn't going to work but I will just have some fun with her and tell her I love her etc etc".

I'd never do that.

But what if she's smart? She's beautiful? And we have this amazing chemistry with her both emotional and intellectual? Would I mislead myself too so I'd look away?

The answer is "yes".

I was completely genuine and I believed in every relationship I was in, I never wanted to hurt them or use them in any way. But I always came in after the premise that "maybe they don't have BPD" or "they are on the spectrum but perhaps the relationship can work".

Then once the craziness would start, I would confirm my fears and end it there.

It's just a coincidence that we enjoy the good parts while getting out on time before the bad parts start. Because I feel like this is what they are good at, the initial romance/connection. And it just happens to be my favorite part as well.

Yes, I just prefer BPD women, they match my intensity and we connect really really well.

I don't know if it's any kind of a core wound with me at this point. It used to be.

But I suffer very little now, I enjoy the ride and when it's over, it's over.

And the BPD person is happy too, I know how to make them happy (if only for a few months) so I think it works out well for everyone.

That's the thing. Not everyone is meant for marriage. Not everyone is meant for a long term relationship.

Some people prefer emotional intensity/fantasy to reality.

That person happens to be me and that desire is matched by all the amazing BPD women out there... .

You just need to know when to fold.

Zeus

My thoughts exactly. Not willing to tolerate BS and hurting another purposefully are two very different things.

Besides, I would guess you're far more likely to be a good fit for a pwBPD than a clueless non (who would get hurt), a player (who would hurt them) or a narc/sociopath.  Or is the correct attitude to adopt that a pwBPD should be deemed undatable unless they are in treatment? 

Yeah, exactly. Most of mine usually appear more or less normal initially. At that point I get involved to see what comes of it. But once I can't be in denial about it anymore, I get out.


As far as undateable, I don't know if therapy helps much. One of mine was in it and while it stopped some downright criminal activities like stealing... .she was still utterly incapable of any kind of long term relationship... .

As far as undateable... .it depends what the goals are, you know?

If someone is WILLING to go through hell with them and put up with lying, cheating, raging, etc etc... .if that is worth it to them... .then okay and if BPD person is willing to get treatment, that's a big plus. I will not put up with lying/cheating/raging so once that starts and I've confirmed my suspicions, I'm usually out.

But I really enjoy the romance/chemistry part of it in the beginning (and so do they). Like any relationship! But when the time comes you just have to be honest and say "this was too good to be true, it's not healthy so I'm folding".

As far as the experience, I think that's a very insightful point. A BPD woman could break a guy who has zero experience with that kind of stuff. But BPD women cannot hurt me. And I don't hurt them. I obviously have some kind of connection with them but I just disengage when I know it's no longer healthy to stay in it... .or sometimes they do it for me, which I don't mind.

Because I know... .their feelings were real but now it's no to something else. And I don't get mad, don't get resentful, don't take it personally, this is what they do.

The dream is over... .until the next time.

Perhaps it's not a coincidence.  Perhaps you share the same level of emotional maturity, so you are drawn to one another and the connection works for the both of you.

:light:

That's very similar to what gamblers and drug addicts think, getting out before the odds catch up with them, and that's where they/we miserably fail.

Not so suprising, given the facts that addictive drugs and gambling and romantic relationships rewire neural circuits in similar ways.

We definitely share something, there is no doubt about that. Emotional intensity and an affinity for this overwhelming, self consuming, too good to be true passion is one for sure.

And the connection does work for both of us short term, absolutely.

I'll give you my take after being 18 months out of a 3+ year r/s with a uBPD/NPD ex gf.  I had a couple short r/s experiences within the first 6 or months of the b/u.  One person (non PD), with whom I still friends with just happened at a time I wasn't ready for a r/s and she was.  I was totally straight with her and she was totally cool about it.  The second r/s (2 or 3 months) was with a "wild child" BPD (she admitted at the end) and I ignored many red flags!  She raged on me one day and I ran for the hills saying to myself "What the heck are you doing, dude?"  Things changed radically r/s wise for me at that point.  

Ok, so there are some things at play that many here may agree with:

1. It sounds like it would be an easy solution to missing someone, especially a BPDx, by replacing them with another pwBPD or short lived BPD r/s.  It also sounds like what my ex gf has been doing the last year and half with attempting to replace me with another non PD and co-dependent person.  What is the difference?

2. Whether it's a drug, work, exercise, r/s or other type of addiction, if you keep going back to something even though there is trauma and it adversely affects your life, then you are addicted.  Purposely choosing BPD dates is like a drug addict saying "if I just get one more hit or just some small hits I'll feel better and then get clean".  Good luck on that one... .

3. What are the risks with intentionally seeking BPD dates to help you lesson your hangover from your previous BPD r/s?  You may find out your co-dependent, white knight personality can't resist diving back in deep.  Another may be that you "f up" and end up with a lifetime tie to this intended short lived BPD r/s (pregnancy, STD, etc.).  Even more so, you just keep spinning while you choose to be with dates or partners that can't function in a healthy, reciprocating love r/s.  

That may all sound "preachy", but I think I would be fooling myself and anyone here on this board would be fooling themselves by thinking it would be wise or ok to go back to the "hair of the dog that bit you".  I can't go there... .

If everything is going so well with your system, then what brings you here, Zeus?

As far as wise or okay, people are different and have different goals and I think what doesnt work for one person could work for another... .

I think the point Fanny was trying to make is... .What if there is no trauma anymore?

Tha applies to me.

I just lost the love of my life, Im not even upset, much less traumatized. My last relationship was good for a few months and I wasnt left broken in the end so even though it didnt work out... .Im happy. It was worth it for me personally.

Hi Madison - thanks for sharing your experience. Did the BPD wild child relationship help you to face the facts in some way though i.e. was it of some use in the healing process?

Cheers


Fanny

Hi FannyB,

Are you flirting with the idea of finding another pwBPD for healing or otherwise?

Yeah... .I don't know if I could switch this fast when I was obsessed with my first one... .

But on the other hand, once I met another woman and things were very similar... .I realized the first one was not "the love of my life".

There are plenty of "loves of my life" walking around out there. And I think realizing that was healing for me.

Hi Mutt

No, I've got my issues but I'm generally fine! :) There is an inquisitive side of me though that wonders how I'd interact in a borderline relationship armed with the knowledge I have now.   Also, as I referenced earlier, sometimes a shock to the system can jolt us out of a mental malaise and I just wondered whether there was any merit in this theory.

Cheers

Fanny

If there is no trauma anymore, then why are you here?  I came here for help deal with the pain and trauma of a very confusing r/s.  I also came here to help with my recovery and detachment, and further to keep my awareness of co-dependent and potential r/s addiction issues that contributed to me getting into a r/s and staying in a r/s with someone w/ strong BPD and NPD traits.  I made mistakes during my recovery like jumping into a short r/s with another pw/PD.  I didn't intend to do this and it wasn't a conscious choice in order to stop the lingering pain of my previous r/s.  It did IMO, however, interrupt the work I was doing on myself and slowed my recover/detachment.  It was too risky and looking back, I wouldn't repeat it.  When I got back to looking inward, I was able to move forward.  Again, I see it as a mistake that I've forgiven myself for rather than a needed step to recover and detach.

I agree it helps to gain knowledge and learn the traits and behaviors to depersonalize. To make sense of the experience that we went through and to ease our suffering.

You may be looking for a shock to the system to jolt you out of malaise.

I'm asking if you are simply curious or if you are rationalizing?

With the knowledge that you have gained and where you are in your scale for your healing process, you're not worried you may fall down the rabbit hole again and repeat the same patterns?

If you don't want a haircut, you don't hang out at the barber shop  *)

That's great.

As far as me, my motivations are:

1. Learn more about this complex, fascinating and contradictory disorder

2. Gain better insight into myself and my own actions

3. Meet people who have gone through/are going through the things I went through

4. Support others who are going through what I went through years ago (when it was still traumatic for me)

As far as jumping into a rebound with another PD disordered person... .yeah, I mean I think in many cases rebounds are not a good idea in general. And as far as personality disordered people, I agree, ideally it's something anyone would want to avoid.

And if you keep getting hurt by them then of course it's better to avoid them.

It's just that my experience is I have the best chemistry with BPD women... .don't know why that is. I certainly don't consciously seek them out but it just works out that way.

So what do you do? Settle for someone you have no chemistry with? Remain celibate for the rest of your life?

It's definitely a catch 22 but I don't think either celibacy nor settling are options for me at least for now... .

Will never lower my guard like that again Mutt - though I can't guarantee that I won't traverse the BPD path again! Like Zeus, I've got history. 

Just over a year out and not doing badly. For me I can give a resounding no to your question. I have become hyper aware to the point of shunning even friends and acquaintances who give off what I deem to be red flags. I'm beginning to suspect that my creativity has been closely linked with my interaction with disordered people which in the aftermath of this last failed relationship has hampered my ability to make music. Music was always my biggest passion but I have no creative spark anymore. The vague point I'm trying to make is that if my health and happiness pivots on the choice between creativity or no creativity I'm leaning towards accepting no creativity. It's not a small decision for someone with a semi professional career, band members and a record deal to make but I'd rather suffer the emptiness of not having music in my life than go through the pain of the last few years again. It's terrifying but I've been burned enough to where I've started to suspect I may not really have any other choice.

"My question is, if 6 months or more on you're still suffering from the 'hangover' of your failed BPD relationship, might a potential cure be another relationship with a pwBPD? "

fanny, i think youre really onto something, but speaking for me personally, my answer is a resounding no. none of my prior relationships had been healthy or ideal; possible pds at play, i really dont know. but when i decided id recovered from that, i decided "its time to date, even if shes crazy". that wasnt learning from my mistakes. it was repeating them. after my exuBPDgf i sought out two more unhealthy/wrong relationships.

so no. i frankly dont care if "normal seems boring". it will be different than what ive experienced. why not move my focus to "even if shes crazy" to "even if shes boring"?  |iiii

Have we considered the risks?

I heard someone mention stalking.

Another post around here on another board is going to court for false allegations.

Sounds like inviting bad karma.

What are the other risks?

"Have we considered the risks?"

sometimes i feel im being hypersensitive or extreme about this, but at the end of the day, i dont think so. i literally consider death as a possibility, of ignoring my gut, when it comes to a person i dont trust. if thats what it takes, and i dont go applying it to everyone i meet, i dont see a lot wrong with it.

the risks are real with boundary busters, BPD or not.

edit: for example, i was never subject to physical abuse with my uBPDex, and its really, really difficult for me to imagine her engaging in it. on the other hand, she mentioned that shed struck the guy before me, in a story void of detail. i heard that she was violent toward a long time, female close friend of my replacement. so consider what age and more unstable relationships could do to an otherwise impulsive person prone to escalating, and you have a bad recipe.

I agree once removed,  there are risks when dealing with persons who lack respect for boundaries... .BPD or no BPD.

You also bring up a good risk... .

The risk of self inflicted damage one may sustain by intentionally avoiding listening to their instincts.  Especially when that is a main area that many of us are trying to repair.  I'm not talking about "what could" occur, however, the actual act of ignoring your instinct for whatever cause/purpose... .what that does to your mind.

" I'm not talking about "what could" occur, however, the actual act of ignoring your instinct for whatever cause/purpose... .what that does to your mind."

thats probably a more practical and realistic risk than i was talking about. it certainly can cause fantasies and magical thinking, either about yourself and your abilities, or projected on a partner, or even friend.

even worse if youre not conscious of it. you may project the failure and surreality of repeated mistakes onto the opposite sex or people in general.

Sunflower & Once removed

Thank you for your contributions.  :)

Before the thread is locked, I'd like to give my final thoughts:

1) Engaging with any high conflict individual is a high risk strategy, which could come back and 'bite you on the fanny' as you Americans like to say!

2) In extreme situations (as articulated by Zeus) it could work

3) It should only really be considered if all else fails and if the person in question has a sound knowledge of BPD and can establish firm boundaries from the off

If I find myself in this situation again, I will share my experiences with forum members.

Meanwhile, thanks for indulging my curiosity and contributing to a very illuminating discussion!  :)


Fanny

Ive been following this thread and a couple of thoughts spring to mind. Firstly did any of us know our exs where BPD. My exgf didnt start showing red flags until months into the relationship. With this being the case I find it hard to believe you can go out and just find a BPD for a quick fling.

Secondly do any of you think you are strong enough to risk this involvement?

Thirdly if your coming off heroine you dont get another hit from a different drug dealer and hope it wont get you addicted again.

I personally couldnt knowingly do it. I may have had one night stands when I was younger with a pwBPD but now I think my fight or flight reflex would kick in and I would run a mile.

jumping into another relationship, esp with another dysfunctional individual, only prolongs your internal psychological recovery

the problem with alcoholics isn't the alcohol -- its the underlying self-loathing, depression, anger etc... .alcohol is simply the manifestation of their unhappiness

you are ATTRACTED to this 'damsel in distress' prototype... .spend your time figuring out why

Um, yes, it would be like an alcoholic saying "hey, let's just stop in for one or two." Good luck with that.

Where the hell do you all specifically find all these BPD women ?

Is there some sort of pool they all drink at ?  :)

Hi Dobie

I hadn't gone so far in developing this theory as to outline how you might catch one, but here goes:

Register with PoF, and state in your profile how you are looking for your soul-mate to live happily ever after with. Also add that you like caring for sick animals.

Then wait for replies. That should do the trick!  :)

*mod*

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