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Hello everyone I thought I'd give ya'll an update on how our appointment went this morning. Quick recap for those unfamiliar with my story... .my H has needed to go to the doctors for almost a year now regarding ED, and I finally got him in this morning.

He didn't put up any fuss... .went to the doctor's. They did a brief history and he was very honest with them about his drinking, which I was surprised about. He told them about depression... .did not mention BPD at all (I'm happy with him expressing depression), and he told them he was having shortness of breath after physical activity sometimes. This one surprised me... .he had an episode after mowing the lawn a few months ago where he came in saying he couldn't breathe but honestly he embellishes things so much, I didn't take it seriously.

He didn't bring up his ED issues at all but I did.  All I said at the doc's office was "he's been having some ED issues for the past few years" and he pulled his script book out and wrote one up for Viagra. It was that quick and easy.

He went through a full workup testing, blood, xrays, ekg... .the whole 9. He's got a few more tests the doctor would like to do just to establish care and he says he will do it. We had talked last night and he said he was fighting with himself not to flake out. He was feeling very nervous and anxious but he said he kept telling himself he owes it to me and his family to get looked at. I had a bit of an anxiety moment yesterday due to some work issues... .probably also fed about this appointment this morning. He was very kind to me when I got home last night, talked to me and helped me calm down.

After I was calm, I told him what GAS feels like for me. I told him that's why I could understand how he feels sometimes... .how you might logically know something, but the feelings take over and sometimes you can't stop it. We both felt a lot better talking about it. He said he wanted to start therapy... .therapy for himself and therapy for us together to work on our intimacy issues.

I'm not sure what's for us down the road, but today was a big victory. I hope he can stay committed to doing these things. Today was a great start though :)

 |iiii

I am so glad to hear all this!

This is really a big step forward with him facing so many embarrassing and scary topics. He can be proud. It is usually getting to the stepping up that is the hardest. Once going a pwBPD is often surprising everyone in how well they handle the crisis that had them paralyzed for ages.

Good support job  |iiii

Good work Ethyl!  |iiii  

 |iiii YAY!

I missed your other thread on this topic before it was closed and had $.02 to add for it.

He asked you to be aggressive.

You did what he asked--sending him flirtatious texts all day. [FYI good job!]

He started responding in ways that were diverting you / reacting badly.

:light: Perhaps this was a time for you take the cue that it wasn't going as planned. And reevaluate what you were doing. I was very impressed with how you tried to keep things on track... .and think that *might* have worked some of the time... .but as you later discovered (double-yay, he opened up about it!) he was getting nervious/anxious.

My suggestion is to think about what else you could do in that sort of situation... .and what you can validate at those times, or what other courses of action are possible.

Remember that he isn't very good at either figuring out what he wants or asking for it.

Thank you, everyone!

@GK I know what you mean. The first time I did the sexting thing like he wanted he did the same thing and I just dropped it. After he brought it up again, I tried again and this time I tried to keep steering him in the right direction. It didn't go well, but it did springboard our conversation about how sex has always been uncomfortable and weird for him. He thought it would like it but he didn't.

He still says he wants me to initiate. Now that we got the script, he joked on the way home that I should just come home one day, tell him he's taking that pill and jump on him. I'll give it a shot but I'm shaky on the results. He keeps saying he wants me to be aggressive, but every time I have it's ended badly. I think he's projecting a bit... .like he wishes he was the aggressor.

But hey... .we will work on it :)

  |iiii


 

Yay!  Big step... .  a great payoff for lots of hard work from you!

Way to go!

FF

Thank you, FF!

Well, after calling around with the script today... .looks like we are screwed. Or rather, we are not. His Indian insurance doesn't cover the cost of Viagra, and so far pharmacies are quoting me at $845 for 20 pills, and that's about 42 dollars per hard on.

So, I guess we can't afford to have sex. I might opt to spend a little in the adult toy department and be happy with that.

Good God... .42 dollars a pill... .

Really, really happy for you about the blue pill but I am inspired and excited for him deciding on his own to go forward and look into this.

ColdEthyl you are so courageous and such a wonderful person and wife.

Great, great job -  |iiii  

Thank you, he surprised me too :) Right now he's really committed. I know that can and probably will change, and we will still have bumpy roads but as long and he's trying... .I'm trying.

Does anyone here by chance know a good source to buy these pills from? I've been looking online but there's a ton of junk pharmacy websites :/

I was afraid of that... .the Navy and other "government" insurances can be a bit funny about that.

Sometimes a doctors letter or something like that might work to override it.

Or... .possibly to get a couple to try.

Even if you have to pay full price... .might be worth it to get a couple... .just to see.

$42 per hard on... .hmmm... .wow... .

FF

 

Have you been to the Viagra website... .they seem to have some 50% off stuff... .it looks legit.

I did with his prescription it was 700 and something with 3 free pills. I can't justify spending that much money

*I did just find a site where the company offers to help pay costs of pill to lower income people who cannot afford the drug. With him being on disability, this might be the ticket.

Ethyl those are insane prices. I don't really understand that. Most insurance policies including mine at work which is really good and convers full costs don't cover viagara either. I hear guys complaining about it all the time but holy crap why is it so expensive there. At a normal pharmacy here they are about $12.00 Canadian.

Maybe try our web sites and see if they ship to the states. They are apparently a lot cheaper in Mexico and in some part prescriptions aren't even required. I'd look out of state if they're that expensive there. I have to run now by I'll try and do some digging latter tonight to see what I can come up with.

In the meantime don't lose heart something will come up. No pun intended.

@Stalwart I'm looking at all possible avenues. I wonder how much these things are on the street rofl

This weekend was full of dysregulation, which I really didn't find surprising. He was snarky when he wasn't quiet, yelling at his video games,  complaining about being hungry, but wouldn't go make anything for himself to eat... .he decided to grill for dinner then complained about the smoke going into his eye. Why... .you would think the smoke was purposefully trying to blind the man.

At one point I sat outside while he was cooking holding one of the bbq forks and wondered if I rammed it into my forehead if it would be any more unpleasant than the constant whining   :)... .but I made myself remember why he was dysregulating.

He went to the doctor which was very difficult for him. He's feeling guilty about the the cost of Viagra although he doesn't control that. He feels guilty for needing it to begin with. He's been anxious about the doctor's calling about his blood results. He's anxious about having to make a lot of life changes for his health and our marriage.

I tried to initiate sex. He was lying in bed watching TV and I crawled up on him, said some dirty things, made some dirty promises and I saw the fear in his eyes. I winked and kissed him, and did not bring it back up. It wasn't the right time for him to deal with it.

God, that's the worst part for me... .seeing that naked fear. It's really difficult to keep trying to work on intimacy with someone who looks at me like I'm victimizing him. Perhaps I should quit trying for a bit and book that counseling.

Hi ColdEthyl,

this is not easy on you  . You saw his fear and you respected it. Nothing wrong with that.

What did you to to validate it?

I didn't. I let sleeping dogs lie. My intent is to gauge his behavior when I get home today, and discuss it then. He will have a nice quiet day alone with no responsibilities today, so he hopefully will be better equipped. The attempt at intimacy was Saturday night. Last night, I asked him how he was feeling. He said it was OK, a bit anxious about waiting for results and such. He seemed to be holding back still. I told him then that I understand why he was worried, and I was a bit worried, too. I said it seemed like he was still bothered by something he didn't want to discuss at that time. I told that's ok... .I am here for him when he's ready to talk, and I dropped it.

Hey ColdEthyl;

"@Stalwart I'm looking at all possible avenues. I wonder how much these things are on the street rofl"

Honestly, you wouldn't be the first of millions that buy it under the table rather than pay the prices over the counter.

I was wondering about that as well. 

First... .I think you are right to just try it... .rather than plan it.  He'll have too much time to think.

Validating... .might help

I wonder if there is a place for SET here... .with the truth being... ."its ok"

FF

I fully understand that you want to let dogs lie. And at times this is the best you can do - trust your instincts but do reflect on them.

The way I see it is that we are always communicating - we say something which is a verbal signal with often a stronger voice tone signal - we say nothing that is a strong behavioral signal.

Communication may be the difference between respecting his fears and walking on eggshells.

And I know it is not easy changing established behavior - sheepishly admitting sitting in a similar boat  

*Nods* I spoke to him at lunch and he's in better spirits today. He even wants to get out and take the dogs for a walk. Very good signs. I will bring it up VIA SET

"I know you have been very nervous about our sex life and I understand. It has made me nervous, too. But, it's OK. I love you, and you love me. We are OK, and we can do this, cuz we are bad@ss."

That's the line I'm opening with. For my next trick... .I'm going to try to initiate sex after he has fallen asleep. He might not have a chance to overthink everything that way   *rubs hands together, cackling manically*

|iiii

WOW, I laughed out loud when I read this.

Fair warning, don't expect too much. I have done that and had mixed results.

Also, be careful that you don't trigger any thing. If he has a history of sexual abuse, waking up to you trying to initiate might freak him out.

Personally, I don't think the aggressor approach is the way to go.  Tell him that you will initiate the first touch, but if he isn't ready to take the next step, then you can just cuddle.  That way he can cuddle with you without additional expectations, and if things aren't happening he isn't feeling pressured to perform.  If you surprise him and are aggressive, I can see how that could make him nervous.  (My body parts work fine, and I know that it would make me nervous too).  Also, I suspect that the reason why he isn't responding to new things, is that it isn't you.  You are the one that he wants to make love to, not you trying to be somebody else.  Do what has worked before (even if it was 10 years ago).

He said he needed me to be aggressive, which is the only reason why I'm trying it.

You know... .I did not think of that angle. I might want to rethink this... .I certainly don't want to bring up anything like that for him.

@Fian also what worked before was he initiated sex and responded to my overtures. He no longer does so, it causes fear and anxiety.

Listen to what he says... .but understand that he probably doesn't really know what he wants himself, or cannot articulate it very well, and is figuring it out as he goes along. So if his actions and non-verbal responses or even words when you try it don't match the earlier request... .time to re-think things, at least for the current time.

Last I checked, continuing being aggressive when he responds badly hasn't allowed you to "power through" the rough spot and get to something that works. Try other approaches.


My suggestion on that is to ask for permission in advance... ."Hmmm... .the next time I see you playing with yourself in your sleep, would you mind if I helped out? I wouldn't want to surprise you in a bad way."

If he sounds willing, try it some night and see what happens.

(Side note: Perhaps I've been separated/alone too long. I think I'd enjoy waking up like that, but I'm not your husband, and severely lacking in such opportunities!   )

@GK I think you are right. He has said over and over for me to be aggressive, and once used his exwife as an example (not that I wanted to hear about his ex, but you know BPD and their ideas of acceptable topics) and said she would sometimes just 'attack' him and tell him what's going to happen and he liked it. But, that was some 25 years ago so... .what worked then might not now for him. I don't think he considers that. Also, I think he really wishes he was more aggressive, and this probably is a bit of gaslighting.

I will ask him how he feels about being woke up first to avoid any triggering. I don't want him uncomfortable... .I just want my lover back

Just a suggestion and a little reminisce of days gone by but who knows – I’ll throw it at you anyway.

This was with my first wife of 30 years not my current wife but now that I think about it …   hhhhmmmm might make this one happen with her too.

Don’t know what you have for nature there but you’ll be able to figure it out with what you have to work with – I live North and it’s beautiful lakes and hills, tree – just awesome outdoors.

We went out in a boat fishing with some other people. There was a boat problem so they dropped us off on the shore and went back for an hour. Out of the blue my wife attacked me. It was great and even better because it was different – out there and away from everything else in life.

Put it this way we did some pretty funky stuff when we were younger but that really stuck out with me as one of the best.

Maybe getting away from everything and out there somewhere secluded and alone would be a good thing. Go fishing together, or canoeing together,  or take the camera for some nature shots or just a picnic out…... .whatever works best for you to get out there with him.

Just sayin”……….Oh a blankets kind of good but not really a prerequisite  *)

From my viewpoint, you initiating the sexual contact is aggressive.  You don't have to "attack" him to be the aggressor.  I would think with his fear response, attacking is the wrong approach.

When I talk about what works in the past, I meant more along the lines of type of conduct.  Is sexting wasn't your thing, it may not be best to do it now.  Comfortable is probably what he needs.

@Stalwart that might work if we can find a secluded spot. We live in the South and there's a lot of lakes, forests, etc here and we happen to love the outdoors. He's talked about some outside stuff before.

@Fian "attack" is the word he used. He said he wanted to be "attacked" like his exwife used to. What worked in the past was... .nothing. Basic 'conduct'. There were no special hoops I had to jump through, no decoder rings. He would initiate... .I would respond and vice versa. What changed was once he started having ED issues, he catastrophized the problem IE being worried it's going to happen, fear of ''failure" on his part. I have told him over and over I did not think ill of him from a physical issue. We could try and if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen.

I'm not the one putting pressure on him. He is putting it on himself.

I don’t know. I think there’s really something to be said for change and change of environment when you’re trying to move forward from a stuck position.


Funny how different people think given the same scenario. There is no disrespect intended to your post Fian but:


The way I look at it is you’ve got lots of time and years for “comfortable” and maybe not so many for shaking it up and doing a little more ‘Waaaaahhhoo” to life together.


Honestly, my wife has this timidity of being aggressive which wasn’t the case in the beginning before she started to doubt us and herself. I really dislike having to always be the aggressor. I would roll over if she jumped into the lead (like really quick  .)  Come to think of it – what guy doesn’t want to be “taken”?


I just really kind of feel that getting out of the bedroom and the same stuck rut would be key to having a lot more fun with it. Whatever the environment or situation though I wouldn’t even make it a plan to ‘do it’ with him – I’d just make the plan for it to come together and hey, just do it.


Anyway, best of luck with it ColdEthyl and all the way through I’ve seen your success being a result of you taking the lead. Why spoil a good run?

@Stalwart

A few times we got a hotel room and gave it a try, but when it came to that time he waved me off with headache or tiredness and nothing happened. That's been the MO for the past 2 and a half years. He wants to... .get scared. He wants to... .starts overthinking.

I'm trying to get the groundhog to quit seeing his shadow.

Hmmm. . .are you living my life?

Seriously, we have done the hotel room thing too. The groundhog saw his shadow and it was a no go. I even got a little weird and was like, "Oh hey, if that isn't working, you can use this on me." (Not going to say what it was.) It was an attempt to take the emphasis off of him. He was so, meh about the groundhog, that he couldn't even focus on giving me pleasure.

One time, our friends offered us a new place to do the deed. He declined because he was tired and afraid. Heck, one time, we went out without the kids. It was at night so I stripped down in the front seat and started doing stuff while he was driving to get him interested and try to shake things up. If my memory is correct, we got home and not much happened.

We have pulled off into dark spots. He wanted a BJ to get things going but would then make excuses about not enough room in the car, scared, whatever so he would get his BJ in the woods and I would get nothing.

VoC... .I think so.

We left a concert one night and we were just driving around enjoying the crisp fall air, and I put my hand on his leg and said "You know, if you can find a nice quiet place to park I'll give you a BJ" His eyes got wide... .then he got that scared looks on his face and he was like "Oh really?" but that was the end of it. A few minutes later, he said "Oh hey I was thinking of what you said it sounds great but there's really nowhere to go here... ." That was BS.

I've offered to use things on myself, also. That way hey... .I can kinda get something. Hasn't happened yet. The very last time I tried to initiate anything, I started to masturbate and he watched... .and only watched. He got a hard on but was afraid to use it.

He's talked how hot and sexy it was several times since then, but doesn't DO anything.

Wow... .frustrating... .

My gut says give her more opportunities like this.  Look for any... .and I mean any little thing he does... .that is in the right direction... .and validate... .praise... .etc etc.

But... .this could be so intertwined with his sexual history... .that it could take lots of careful therapy to unwind.

I think you are right to not "really" be aggressive... .and respect the fear in his eyes.

FF

Your H has some physical ED issues... .and some mental stress/fear/etc. issues.

One solution/help on the mental side is pot. Smoking or eating might help him relax past the mental part.

I know that addiction is an issue for some pwBPD, and there are lots of potential reasons NOT to do this... .if your H doesn't have any such issues, and especially if he does use it occasionally anyway, it seems worth trying.

Hey VOC and Ethyl:

@ Vortex

I think we all live in some types of similarities when it comes to sexual disfunction in our relationships not meeting our own needs.

Yes, when it does come to sexual relations I do live partially in your lives. I don't know how many times we've not only planned but done impromptu outings, gotten rooms and I have laid the best laid plans, only to have them crumble because of her intensity of deregulation in totally unrelated situations to the one we are immediately immersed in... .

We're going away tomorrow for a week of travelling together and site-seeing. Booked really good places to stay, great things to see and do all day she really wants to see because she hasn't before. Even spend a day and night in her old stomping grounds to walk all those old memories from her past. I have in my mind what would be really good to happen particularly with closeness and intimacy but that doesn't mean those same want's fit into hers.

It's a real dysfunctional dance sometimes that mostly meet our own hopes for them because of their issues. I know how disappointing it is to spend the day on a romantic train ride through the wilderness runs to enjoy the changing of the colour and the entire is wasted on the inescapable problems for her workplace and you might as well just pull the curtain on the train window. Everyone on the train removing themselves farther and farther way because they don't want to have to listen to that and have it interfere with their trips. I know the embarrassment of being a part of that but having to see it through. When she finally arrives back at the room collapses out of anxiety and stress to sleep for the night to escaper herself , while I'm left sitting on the bottom of the bed wondering how all of this could possibly take place.

I so do live in the same challenges as most when it comes to sex or intimacy being fragmented and subject to their immediate other situational needs or lack of them and for the best laid plans have them fall to pieces again. I know for certain the rejection when so much of my own thoughts were envisioned into expectations.

Time has changed this interaction and dance a bit, but it's still a place where we haven't yet been able to really take ahold of each other and dance until the interaction of dancing is smooth, congruent and a pleasure to experience doing it so well.  She adamantly feels like we have sex once a week. That’s the magic number that people in her mind should do for a healthy relationship after years (in fact that's really good.). A week goes by and she doesn’t even realize she asks night after night after night for extension for various reason and the one week sex requirements constantly morphs into three weeks. She doesn’t see it.

I know how the outright rejection in the times of encouragement feels.

I know the inward powers that restrict her abilities and wants. From consumption of other issues to self-loathing of her self and feeling unwanted - to morphing her own appearance to “No one would want this !” It’s those times of her twisted mirror altering her own perceptions when there is much much paranioa, self-loathing and condemnation  that she looks at a perfect and really attractive person and morphs it into a perceived ogre of ugliness no one would go near or should have to. Age only emplifies that.

Yes I do live in a similar life Vortex when it comes to sexual relations.

Main part rather than give up hope or criticize is to share our stories and look for the opportunities to come together in the discussions and interaction to find solutions and hopes that can bring it forward. Real difficult challenge and I appreciate the ideas I read in for possibilities to that – probabilities of making them happen – well that's another thing.

.