BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

I wanted to start a discussion about an issue I have been thinking through for some time. I have been involved with quite a few BPD women but in all most cases they would leave before the relationship could really turn into marriage or anything long term.

So, basically things would be great and there would be connection and romance and chemistry and talk of kids and marriage but then invariably they would disappear.

However, I see quite a few people here are married to BPD women and have been married for some time.

I was curious... .how did they demonstrate this level of commitment to you (something that they have never done with me)? What are the characteristics that one needs to have for a BPD woman to marry you (and not get scared off)?

For you personally?

Some of my exes are married, I know one married a guy who rescued her invariably... .which is something I never did. But she lied to him, he forgave her. She was bulimic, he took her to the hospital. She cheated on him, he forgave her. He put up with soo much stuff from her.

Another one married a very different guy, that one was very distant emotionally and somewhat abusive but he allowed her to do her own thing so she could do whatever she wanted including affairs without much suspicion from him because he was emotionally withdrawn.

So is that what it is? They basically are looking for this type that will forgive them everything and keep helping them no matter what? Is that correct?

But then the other one and the withdrawn person doesn't fit into this? I realize it's more complicated than just one theory, this is why I wanted to ask.

What has been your experience with marrying a BPD woman or being in a long term relationship with one and WHY they chose you?

Mine burn out within months... .

Please share... .

i was abused and used to being abused and i thought it was normal, she projected on me and i took the blame for 25 years, then i realised i had done nothing but love and support her

then we went to couples councilling then a year after i realised she lied all the time.

this destroyed me i picked myself up and she is starting therapy but i will never be that wonderful guy again that gave without thought to myself for her happiness

I tend to have the following traits:

* Somewhat of a people-pleaser;

* Codependent/rescuer;

* Stubborn;

* Follow through with my commitments no matter what.

Have been married to uBPDw for nearly 18 years now... .much of it difficult.

This is interesting. I'm a woman who has been married to two men with BPD. I have all these qualities that you've enumerated, but I'm definitely less of a people pleaser and codependent/rescuer the second time around.

The first husband cheated, was financially irresponsible, used drugs and had a shaky relationship with the truth.

The second abuses alcohol and is a "poor me" type and I'm learning not to rescue but to ignore his pleas for sympathy since my rescuing is not appreciated.

Hi Zeus -nice to see you posting on an appropriate board!  :)

I can only talk about my ex and who she married and why. Judging by her description he was a narcissist with a strong sense of 'self'. This would be very attractive to a borderline with no real sense of who she is.

As to why they married, my theory is that she considered that a house, husband and kids would make her happy and he seemed the perfect candidate. She inflated his sense of superiority and they ran to the altar.

After the kids were born, she still felt 'empty' and blamed him. No more boxes left to tick so it was obviously his fault.

So in conclusion I would say it is an issue of timing as much as personality type if a borderline is gonna go all the way with you. 

I have been married roughly 17 years.  No pun intended.  Our story was crazy.  I fell for her when we were teens.  She was my first love.  I had never experienced love before, and she was just as in love with me as I was with her.  Then she broke up with me twice!  I was definitely heartbroken.  But, I am totally a pleaser and so when she came back a third time, I welcomed her back again for fear of telling her no (it did help that she was cute and I liked a lot about her).  But, the third time around she was no longer on the pedestal in my view.  That is when we got married.  Our first year was horrible.  I felt like she would over-react to everything and I didn't know why or how to handle it. 

So I fought back. 

We had knock down drag outs like every other day.  She threatened to leave like 7 times that first year.  Every sensitive issue that normal couples need to discuss and work through together became a serious attack on the other person, which would make that person dig in deeper.  It was just bad. 

Then I stopped fighting. 

I knew I did not want to get divorced (major religious convictions).  So, I had to figure out how to make things work.  And I basically became a pleaser. 

Now, I find that as long as I am in pleaser mode, we get along a good 95% of the time.  However, when I disagree, we have some minor problems.  But, when I disagree when she is already stressed, watch out. Like seriously get out of the way (my wife is all verbal, volume, and tone - never physical). 

So I try not to disagree when she is stressed.  That requires some major tongue biting.  It can be very difficult when she has just snapped at me for something.  (Yes, I do annoying things, but I think non-BPD's just tell you that vs getting super stressed, angry, and snippy about it.  Maybe all spouses do that?  Bpd or not?)  I still can't help myself sometimes, and call her on being mean or nasty in the moment.  This almost never works as she either says she didn't say that, or she didn't say it like that, or I am just being too sensitive etc.  If I try to talk about it later after we have calmed down, it is usually a similar story. So for me at least, I have learned that trying to all her on her stuff (especially in the stressful moment) has little to no effect and often it just makes things worse.  So again, I try to just avoid that scenario.  Maybe that makes me a pleaser or a push-over. 

But again, my goal is not to be right, or be the healthy one, or to get treated fairly right now.  My goal is to stay married to someone who handles stress really pretty awful.     

What is funny is that my wife would swear on everything holy that she works every bit as hard to please me as I do to please her.  It can be pretty confusing and infuriating when you try to tell someone you are feeling mistreated in a relationship, and they sincerely believe it is they who are working so hard and being mistreated in the relationship.  Maybe she is right and I just can't see my own stuff?  I wish I could say that is specific to a BPD relationship, but I think most couples feel this when they are fighting.  Bpd couples just get really ugly when trying to resolve it.           

Right. Why didn't she marry you? What do you think?


I think you're right. One wanted to get more serious but I was a young punk with no money so she went to her ex who was like 13 years older and had money.

In case of your ex though, was it obvious she had BPD traits before she got married? Did you know about BPD when dating her? Do you think her husband knew about BPD, were there signs?

I see. Would you say you're happy in your marriage?

I assume there haven't been any extreme cycles of devaluation (especially involving cheating) that caused irreparable harm?

I share some of the same qualities but once they start breaking up with me for no reason and I realize they don't know what they are doing I usually disengage... .

I guess I'd be open to it overall but due to my particular circumstances it was not an option.

I don't think she married me because she's looking for the ideal partner and not looking for money etc. As I have a kid she realised that I couldn't put her first every time she needed me to and this frustrated her.

Based on what I've been told, she always had borderline traits - but to a narcissist this would be perfection during a prolonged honeymoon period where they were placed on the highest pedestal imaginable. He fell a long, long way back to earth.   He's consumed with hatred for her now as he assumes she was a gold-digger. This suggests he is oblivious to BPD and its many machinations!

No nothing that would cause irreparable harm.  Lots of fights, lots of laughs.  As full of anger as my wife can be, she can be just as full of laughter and life.  Its a roller coaster.  But hey, some people like roller coasters :)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Some people's BPD can be a lot more manageable than others'... .

Haven't come across it yet personally but hopefully it's out there somewhere... .

Otherwise, I usually disappear after the honeymoon phase is over... .

Curious, would you have married her if she wanted to marry you? Knowing what you know now that is... .

During idealization - yes. We seemed made for each other. Believe me, the idea of marriage makes my blood run cold, but she was so lovely for 6 months that I would have done it. Knowing what I know now? No way! You can't have a stable relationship with an unstable person IMO. 

Yeah, I mean I can handle SOME instability and I will put up with a lot... .already have in the past.

But not the cheating part and if it's so unstable I'm miserable all the time... .then no.

Problem is, mine always run off no matter what you do... .eventually... .don't know if it's always like this or not.

Is there a BPD version out there that I connect with but stable enough not to cheat or leave?

Don't know the answer to that... .

Zeus,

I am going to ask you the unasked question in all of this, why do you think you keep entering into relationships with BPD women?

The two relationships that I have had in my life were both with women who had personality disorders. I am trying to do a lot of internal work to know myself better, why these relationships attract me, and how I can can heal to avoid making similar mistakes. I am still married to my uBPDw, but if not for kids, I would like to think that I could possibly find another partner that has a better ability to meet me as a partner and not as a need, to not put me on a pedestal (I can stand on my own) but appreciate the good in me and accept the flaws and encourage mutual growth and understanding. None of this is likely or probable with my BPD wife. Why do you want to find a stable RS with a BPD? I am not trying to judge you. It's just an interesting notion ... .

pwBPD are drawn to things that are pleasing but unhealthy

Rescuers and enablers are pleasing but ultimately detrimental

People with strong values and boundaries are like a course of distasteful medicine which they refuse to complete.

A lot of this is based in neediness and immediate gratification traits

I think it has to do with mutual chemistry. I can be very intense and into storybook romances (now less so than before but still) and the BPD intensity and propensity for larger than life feelings works well with mine.

So, I have not consciously picked these women, quite on the contrary. The first one I got involved with, I didn't even know what BPD was at the time.

Later I started to screen for them. I see BPD every week in my life and these women usually approach me first. They usually sense me instinctually I think.

I screen out a LOT of them, my first one was bulimic and cut too so for the ones that are very obvious, I disengage and don't enter.

The trouble is, as my defenses against them had gone up, the techniques and sophistication of the ones I got involved with grew as well.

Last two I was in relationships with were VERY good at appearing normal for a while.

But due to the fact that I have been in long term relationships with quite a few BPD women and dated dozens of others (some left, others I screened out) I know that I just happen to have chemistry with those types of women for some reason.

There are non BPD women who like me but I usually don't like them. Or I like them and they don't like me.

But in my case, if that intense like for each other happens to be mutual, I can be certain they are on the BPD spectrum. So I can't say that I pick them out, but if I get approached by a woman and I like her and she likes me too... .99.9% certain she has BPD.


Yeah, I hear you. Well, I have developed a system as of lately.

I am usually single for some time but when I meet the right person... .she is perfect, too good to be true, we fall in love, plan to have kids, family, marriage, etc etc.

Then things go south and I see it's BPD. Then I disengage and breakup with her. I ONLY get involved if I happen to think there is no chance of BPD initially. But of course I'm willing to lie to myself if she is beautiful enough, I have subconsciously deceived myself like that a few times.

Then I just disengage and end the relationship.

I was broken the first few times, now I just broke up with the love of my life (another one) a month ago and I wasn't upset at all. It was a good time and I believed in it but once it became obvious that it was BPD, I had to let her go.

So, yes, I have started to stick around for the honeymoon phase and once things get ugly, I head for the hills.

But I only head for the hills if I see there is no chance of them getting better in any kind of healthy way. If I thought I could help them manage it, I would stick around I think... .

And the reason I am thinking about them is because I have great chemistry and they make me happy.

Every one of my exes made me happy. Forget about the sex or whatever. I enjoyed being around them, enjoyed talking to them and just their presence made me feel good.

Granted, I have never lived with any of them, never married one, so obviously not qualified to comment there.

But based on the relationship aspect of it, I was really happy.

I have been thinking about same thing as you too and I don't think there is a big secret to me personally other than that there is some magic, some allure about these women that I find irresistible.

I'm smart enough to disengage if they are too unstable or whatever but my chemistry with them cannot be denied.

So what's the alternative? Settle down with some woman I have no chemistry with? But that eliminates the purpose, I tried it, makes me very unhappy.

The other alternative is keep having those escape flings when they come along but just know when to fold... .that's an option. After all this drama in my last r/s I want peace for about a year or two. As long as there are no kids or marriages or financial ties, it's all good.

Finally, it would be to find someone I have chemistry with still (so she will probably be on BPD spectrum) but stable enough where I BELIEVE we have a chance.

But this is risky. I have known some men who married BPD women, then it all came crashing down years later. Now they are raising kids alone. I definitely don't want that.

So maybe the best strategy is to remain a bachelor my whole life, playing the BPD field so to speak? I don't get hurt by breakups with them at all anymore so that's an option.

That could work, even though ideally I would like a stable partner, as stable as possible.

But the main thing is I don't want to screw up my life, I have a pretty good life and I'm happy. I don't want to mess it up with bad marriage or kids with the wrong partner.

Feel free to message me privately any time if you want to discuss BPD stuff, I am sure we could learn from each other.

I think some men just have chemistry with BPD women and for me (as well as you it seems) that's just the case. Could I find chemistry with someone without BPD? Statistically speaking, very unlikely, based on my track record. Even though I have moved from low functioning ones to more stealthy/high functioning ones so I am progressing (I screen out the really obvious ones now) but I have encountered some sociopath/pathological liars lately so I don't know if I'm getting better or worse, haha

So, yeah, we'll see how it goes. Are you thinking of leaving your marriage? How long have you been married? You can message me privately if you don't want to share here, whatever works.

takingandsending, also if you have any advice for me about BPD long term relationships and marriage... .please share.

If you were me, knowing what you know now about your marriage to a BPD woman... .what would you do going forward?

I'm very curious... .

Well, you can certainly read my posts. I have no great advice for you, other than to hint to work with your own feelings as much as you can. I have been married for 16 years in August, and we lived together for 3 years prior.

I am pretty smart, and spent a lot of time on my own after ending my first relationship with a girl diagnosed as schizotypal, trying to get myself right enough to not enter a relationship with another wounded person who needed rescuing. My wife seemed to fit the bill when I first met her, but it all changed after about 6 months together. The sex and the being painted white definitely filled my cup. We were both spiritual seekers, so that worked for us as well. We were hanging in there okay, me with no notion of BPD at all - I just attributed her mood swings and unending hurt to sexual abuse she suffered as a child. Eventually, once we had a child of our own, the full spectrum of BPD began to manifest. After a second child, I was on the verge of leaving the marriage when our MC let me know that my wife suffers from BPD. This site and some reading have helped me understand and improve the dynamics. It's a whole lot harder when your children are negotiating that terrain with a BPD parent because you have to consider what's best for them.

What I am hopefully, finally learning about myself is that I had a pretty poor self image deep inside. Externally, I seemed pretty solid, pretty assured, confident and happy. Internally, I don't think I ever really believed that anyone who didn't need my help would find me attractive or interesting. I think that's what waverider is getting at in his post. Yes, pwBPD find me attractive because I am a rescuer, and I have built my sense of identity on helping people. It's not wrong, it's not terrible, but it is limited. And I came into it from ideas I formulated growing up as a kid with my FOO. I just wonder how you feel in your own skin. Are you happy with yourself? Are you insecure in ways that you don't like to let show? The more I allow these types of feelings within me to come to surface, the better understanding I have of why I am in the RS I am in right now, how it has served me, how I serve it. I'd like to believe that I can grow and maybe, someday, have a better relationship with someone who is able to like themselves without desperately needing to get it from somebody else. But to attract that, I have to be that. Does that resonate?

And, yeah. I always wistfully wanted the romantic ideal thing as a kid and then as a young adult. Now, all that seems to make sense to me is finding empathy and understanding. Without connection of that sort, sustaining a relationship seems like unrewarded effort.

Zeus

You sound like you're in perpetual pursuit of the (un)holy grail - a BPD woman who can give you the emotional intensity you crave, yet has the stability to go long term!  :) That is an extremely rare commodity because the good things that the disorder gives us nons (intensity, passion etc) are inevitably offset by the crappy parts (devaluation & discard). 

I like the fact that you know who you are and what you want - and that you're not hurt any more by your dalliances with women with BPD. There is no behavioural prototype that we should be forced to correspond to. You are a free spirit - and good luck to you in chasing your dreams. 

What's The Type That BPD Women Marry?

It's a good question and one that I've been asking myself lately.

There have been some terrible times and behaviours in the earlier stages of my relationship.  Of course we each blamed each other for those, but it's now clear to me that most people would not tolerate a relationship to continue in these kind of circumstances.

So I must accept there are unhealthy aspects to my self that allowed me to be a part of such a thing.

Here are some that might (or might not) be relevant:

I don't feel I have a strong sense of agency, of knowing what I want and allowing myself to do it.

I was bullied at school during my early teens, then later rejected by several childhood friends. I entered adulthood feeling socially inadequate.

I was from a somewhat wealthier background than my partner, but more careful with money. When we met I was a poor student, but since then have tended to be decently employed. It's allowed her to lean on me financially several times.

I can be emotionally withdrawn / I sometimes find it hard to deal with my emotions. Emotions were not much acknowledged or discussed in my birth family.

From somewhere I got a sense that I'm not really entitled to end a relationship. (not too sure where from).

I was not confident at approaching other people. My partner first approached me.

Although I don't consider myself to be a hero or a rescuer, I have from somewhere the belief that I will  'do this job because I can, and because I don't think anyone else will'.

I'm more cautious than impulsive

Do these traits 'ring any bells' with anyone else? 

Some more that I 'forgot':

I could be quite self-centred, maybe even narcissistic

I tend to avoid interpersonal problems - head in sand.

I was afraid of commitment with my partner - not sure if that was all my stuff or just felt she wasn't the right one

Not proud of these, but there you go.

All of these... .also and stressing:

1. A drive to always do the "right" thing... .(whatever that means... .)

2. Never shying away from a challenge. (Trying to prove to myself "I CAN DO IT"... .)

Weird to think about because it was so long ago (26 + years)... .  I was always the one to end relationships with previous girlfriends. Thinking about it now I realize it had more to do with them not really "needing" me so I felt unfulfilled. Strange who we end up with because of who we are as a people.

Here is my list. This is based on my own observations. These men seem to work the best with BPD's

- Guys who are Type A narcissistic (law enforcement, military, pilots)

- Guys who are emotionally unavailable (provide the challenge)

- Adrenaline Junkies (extreme hobbies)

- Strong narcissistic traits

Makes sense, thanks.

Yeah, pretty much. And thanks, I'll take whatever I can get.  :)

The one about being approached first does. Most of mine usually approach me first... .

Yes, this certainly matches the profile of some of them.

But what about the white knights/rescuers? You don't think BPD women marry those?

My T says BPDs and narcissists are a common match. I certainly have some narcissistic traits (my self-absorbtion which I think stems from being an only child with a BPD mother), but I don't totally fit the narcissism profile, thank goodness.

However, that said, I find that I really need to disengage emotionally from my husband when he's in the throes of full-on BPD. Previously I fit the co-dependent profile, but not any more. I'm getting where I think he's welcome to his pity party and I want nothing to do with it.

Therefore I can see how narcissists could tolerate BPDs, especially when they're being painted white and disregard them at other times.

Zeus has a point there with "chemistry"

I think the reason for feeling chemistry is not something we are fully aware of.

Men who like women with BPD have no attraction to me, really, and it isn't about appearance. They may notice me, but there is no spark at all. I just don't have what they like.


I have an acquaintance who is attracted to younger, "hot" women- who seem unstable to me. His marriages don't last. I think he is somewhat narcissistic. I don't see him often, but when I do, he seems glad to see me, and then talks about himself, his relationships, his kids but doesn't show much interest in me, my kids. I think he does like me as a friend, in his own way, but this is him. He is very appearance conscious, good looking, wealthy. I think he likes the intensity of the relationships he has.

Although I am married- so no interest at all, I know that there isn't one ounce of chemistry between us. I am not his type.

The men who are attracted to my mother with BPD ( not just a romantic relationship but my also relatives and friends) are not like this guy though. They seem to be decent, hard working, stable men with strong caretaker qualities. These types of guys are also not attracted to me. I think we have the same tendencies. Maybe it is true that opposites attract.

Yeah, a lot of the time I find someone attractive just looks wise but there is no spark, no chemistry.

And it just so happens that this spark is there when they have BPD normally.

And I loove the intensity, yes I do.  :)

Is this the escapism from your own "normality"

Well, I'm not entirely what you'd call "normal" either so I guess what goes around comes around.  :)

I am not sure that my wife has BPD, but she certainly has BPD behaviors.  So here is a profile of myself:

shy around women

Someone who was easily painted white (Christian man on elder board of church)

I would never abandon her

financially stable

rescued her from a difficult financial situation plus her dad had abandoned her and her mom

emotionally distant

Even so she was having a lot of second thoughts about getting married.  She felt obligated due to the help I had given her before marriage, plus her mom was pushing her to marry me.  I don't think she would marry me again knowing what she knows now (and has hinted as such throughout our marriage).

Zeus, in your case, I think BPD women leave you because you give off a "player" vibe.  You appear to be looking for what you can get out of a relationship, and once that isn't there, you leave.  BPD have a strong fear of abandonment, and if they think their SO will abandon them, they abandon them first.

I think there can be mutual attractions between people, but a stable configuration happens between certain people.

There can certainly be sparks between players and pwBPD, but it may be hot at first and go down in flames. There may also be sparks between pw BPD and other people, but if the other person isn't going to be the person who can at least attempt to meet the huge needs of the pwBPD or just doesn't tolerate the behavior that relationship isn't stable.

Zeus, you may just not be a stable match for a pwBPD for the long term, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Despite the fact that caretakers ( co-dependents) wish someone would care for them, I don't think that caretaker-caretaker combination has the sparks in it that some people seek. I believe that a co-dependent- BPD relationship is stable at first ( causes issues eventually) because the co will make so much effort to keep the pwBPD happy and also tolerates their behavior.

My friend who I mentioned. He's handsome and so attracts all women, but the ones he picks are hot and unstable. He knows that too, and he chooses to go from relationship to relationship and moves on when they combust. He loves the intensity, but in all relationships, intensity isn't usually the main aspect. Marriage, kids, this is more about regular life, and some passion if you are fortunate, but loyalty and security are needed for the long run.

And my dear daddy- the kindest most loving and giving man on the planet. He was devoted to my mother, but from how I saw it, he was a giver, and also didn't ask for much in return. He was a secure partner for her.

Yeah, that makes sense.


Well, yeah, I think you're on to something. But I'd just like to clarify that I'm certainly not taking advantage of anyone. I get in those relationships because I genuinely believe they will work.

But I tell them that certain behaviors are unacceptable to me and if they start happening, I will fold. So often they hide those things from me.

But once the abuse starts, I'm usually out (lately I've been leaving them). So, yeah, I guess I just won't put up with enough stuff to get to the point of marriage... .and they feel that or I see it's really bad and decide to disengage.

Thanks for your insight... .

Yes, I identify with your friend a lot.

But I do know that BPD varies in severity and manifestation. And there has been progress on my end. For example, the cutters and the bulimic people and ones that put you up on the pedestal right away, I screen those out pretty fast.

But I have found there are quite a few more subtle strains, which are much more difficult to identify until you get really deep. Basically, women who are really good at hiding it... .and I'm willing to look away of course.

But do you think there is such a thing as a woman with SOME BPD traits that would make it exciting enough but also one that would be trustworthy (no cheating or manipulation)?

Or you can't be a little bit pregnant? Once you have BPD (even if it's high functioning), you get the whole nine? What do you think?

I know it seems like I'm very much a fair weather BPD boyfriend here but I actually can put up with a lot of stuff (and have in the past). But I draw the line at lying/manipulation and cheating. If I see that's the way it's headed and in general this person doesn't know what they are doing and won't get treatment, I'm done... .

Zeus, I think what you have defined about yourself is stronger, healthier boundaries. It is possible for anyone to get into a relationship with a pwBPD and be "blinded by the light" so to speak of the person on their best behavior. They also are good at hiding behind a great image for a while- from everyone- not just you. Sooner or later, there are cracks in this image. I think they let it out in increments- test the water so to speak- cause a rift and then they are wonderful again and they make up.  A person with strong boundaries is likely to not get sucked into this- either call them on it or leave.

But someone who has abandonment fears is less likely to stand up to the pw BPD or walk away. Eventually after testing this, the pwBPD has enough security to let it all out. The shocked non, then is compliant and tries to get the relationship back to where it was in the beginning, and so the dance begins... .

I say this as a non. Raised by a BPD mom and co-dependent dad, this is the only relationship model I know. It is familiar to me. I was exactly the person who would tolerate being treated poorly as I didn't know anything else. It is probably the non who is pushed to their limit. I think then we realize that we have to face our own abandonment fears to be able to set boundaries in out relationships. This, I think is what enables us to make changes in the relationship by changing ourselves.

Zeus, you may enjoy your BPD relationships in the beginning- really, who wouldn't? But you are not a stable match for someone with BPD. That isn't a bad thing.

You would like my wife (sorry, she is not available (:  ).  She is high functioning and can do some behaviors that most BPD cannot like apologize.  However, the constant victim mode does get tiring... .

WOW... .  This almost made me cry.

Very insightful !

Zeus,

I think it could have to do with the fact that you know who/what you are dealing with.

I was with my BPD wife for 18 years, but did not even know what BPD was. She always made me look like there was something wrong with me. After years of verbal abuse, it built up to a point where I would ignore her and give her the silent treatment. To cut a long story short, I found out from a relative of hers, that she was BPD, this is when she went into divorce mode, and started planning an exit with an exit affair as well.

So as long as you are their people pleasing trophy husband, I think they will hang on to you, until they get tired of you, find someone new, or you discover what they are all about... .

Zeus, there may actually be two questions to your topic? What kind of guy do BPD women date and what type do they marry? Dating someone with BPD and then ending the relationship may be very different from a marriage. It is also like this for most marriages.

Years ago, people married according to compatibility and economics and this is still true for some cultures. In some cultures people actually date with the purpose of marriage. In the US we can also date for the fun of it. Cultures that date for marriage tend to match the couple up according to factors like religion/values/life plans. I think there is chemistry in the beginning for the couple, but over time, a growing can evolve. In our modern times, hotness can be a big factor. Hotness is fun, but it may not be enough for the long haul. For most couples the hotness wanes over time- this is when many people leave a marriage as they think the spark is gone, but they might have a deeper love over time if they work at it.

A woman with BPD might give you the intensity you seek in the short run, but if you look at many of the relationships here, that thrill is gone. Why? A book called Passionate Marriage discusses why co-dependency leads to loss of passion. The good news is that long term marriages can also potentially be passionate if couples are willing to work at it. The work involves becoming less codependent, or more differentiated- the term used in the book. Naturally this will vary as marriages, and severity of issues can vary. This book is probably not applicable where there is abuse and serious mental health issues.

Zeus, dating for fun is fine. However, when you decide to marry, consider that this is for keeps. This could be the mother of your children. What kind of person would you like that to be? Who do you want to grow old with?

Yes, I do have a bit of a hero complex but I suppose I have more boundaries than some of my exes would have liked. Very insightful post, thank you.

And they DO test for that stuff... .BIG time. At first I put up with it but once they throw the kitchen sink at me... .at that point I call it quits. So I'm guessing they are looking for someone that will literally let them get away with anything, right?

Has this been your experience personally? The amount of stuff you need to put up with gets amplified more and more and more?

Haha, good for you! Well, I have been moving to higher and higher functioning ones over the last few years, maybe there is someone there who is BPD enough to have chemistry with me but enough to at least not be a sociopath/cheater/manipulator regarding big things.

Good to know this has been your experience.

I can put up with the victim thing... .

This is why someone on the rebound from a failed RS is vulnerable. Especially if rebounding from an invalidating relationship with a pwBPD. hence the cycle of repeat relationships with pwBPD. If the non knows nothing about BPD they won't even see it and will convince themselves they are just failures, as it always happens.

Yeah, I didn't know at first, of course. But lately, if I like anyone and they really like me, 99.99% chance they are on BPD spectrum so that's the first thing on my mind... .find out how functional they are and whether this is something that is worth even considering getting into.

But, yeah, that's the worrisome thing, due to the nature of their disorder, almost all of them eventually get bored/tired and need something new?

not easy to do given that they do not remain constant and pass through different evolutions

How a Borderline Relationship Evolves (https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves)

Yes, that's probably right. I have very little experience with that. I will check out the book, thanks.


Yes, I tried to go the rational route. Met a nice girl, we were good friends, she'd be great for a family and she wanted things to develop. But I just wasn't into it, there was no chemistry.

So I let her go and now she is with someone else. And I felt relieved when she started seeing someone else because then I felt like I could stop forcing myself to go after her. It's like my mind realized that she would be a TERRIFIC partner and great mother and all that.

But if I'm just not feeling it, what am I gonna do? Should I lie and tell her I feel something I don't? Ugh. Just the thought of that makes me sick. The other guy seems into her, she should go with him, it's the right thing to do.

It would be a nightmare to spend the rest of your life with someone you're not attracted to.

But as for me... .the thing is when I'm in the BPD honeymoon phase, we plan it all. The marriage, the kids, picking out kids names.

I have already done that like 4 times haha.

Of course, it's crazy to do that a month after you have met, I do realize that. But they keep finding new ways to seduce me with that fantasy and it's getting harder and harder to do as I gain more experience... .

Then she runs off or I realize it's BPD and break it off... .the good thing though is it doesn't make me upset anymore. I enjoy it and then it's just gone like the fog.

It's like the plot of Pretty Woman over and over again... .

But, just like the movie... .I think I got used to you know the director saying "Okay, cut. The movie is over. Everyone can go home now."

And yeah, then basically both me and the BPD person can stop pretending the whole thing was real, we go NC, never to hear from each other again.

But if I had to pick between great chemistry and great mother/partner, I'd always pick chemistry. I'm not even sure I want a family, pretty happy with my life. If I wanted a family more than great chemistry I could have had it by now with other women who wanted that (and did not have BPD as far as I could tell) so I guess that says something.

I mean 40/60 chemistry/partner divide would be good but all good partner and no chemistry, that wouldn't work I don't think.

Of course, I do have a list of qualities that I admire in people. Trouble is I know a few people that have those qualities but no chemistry. The ones I do have chemistry with SEEM to have those qualities so much that I'm ready to marry them. However, then I realize the whole thing was a BPD fantasy and is not real basically. So, that's it. It is what it is.

Yeah, great article, thank you, that perfectly mirrors my experience as well except I don't stick around for the long term or they disappear.

Those of you who had been married and started with initial chemistry, do you feel like the chemistry in your case went away throughout the years?

Surely some of it must remain, right?

Some of the chemistry for me is still there. Just depends on the moment and time - I think it fluctuates. I think a lot of chemistry depends on your sexual relationship. The better the sexual relationship, the better the emotional connection, well, especially for me, not sure about the BPD wife. The more toxic the relationship - emotional and sexual, the less the chemistry connection.

I haven't tested this, but personally I think chemistry is overrated.  Too many cultures have arranged marriages that are far more successful than Western "pick your own spouse" approaches.  If you are committed to the marriage, I think the passion is found later, and it isn't based on "chemistry" but mutual respect.

Respect needs to be earned, it wont happen if one person doesn't earn it. Take away the choice factor and it is much harder to apply yourself to making anything work

Fian, I agree with you. I have read a lot about marriage to try to make some sense of mine, and I think common values, respect, common goals can be important glue. The initial chemistry is known not to last, but couples in a healthy relationships can keep chemistry in their marriage. I also think "hot" can be defined in different ways. It can be a man with a 6 pack in a magazine, or a man playing with his child, or helping an elderly parent. Beauty is within and on the outside, but the within is better over the long run.

As to the question does the chemistry last? If one considers the topics on sex in this forum, then I would say that it gets complicated. Initially, I think sex is easy in the beginning, but the emotional issues can get complicated and this impacts sexuality. I think these things happen in many marriages- considering the divorce rate, and they happen in marriages with pwBPD.

Zeus, I think it is good that you are honest with yourself, and if you don't want a family, then the bachelor lifestyle may be for you for now. I don't know what happens when guys like this get older- unless one is Hugh Hefner- at some point maybe the women aren't flocking to you? However, I have heard that things can get pretty wild in senior living communities so maybe there are always other people wanting that chemistry too.

*mod*


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