BPDFamily.com

Do you think it's cause they are so different than other people? ( Not in a good way really ) but something like that?

Why?

Because they act like a great partner but at the end they'll reveal their true identity usually this doesn't take long. At this point you're going to see that everything was a lie/act.

A rs with a normal person is way better than a rs with a pwBPD.

Because they mirror us.

For me?

On the surface; he made me laugh. He was silly, full of go go go... .

however, I am finding out, that he is a carbon copy of my mother; and trust me, that's not a good thing.

When I met him, I had not lived at home for 5 years... .

And being with him, because he is a carbon copy of my mom, kicked in the desire to prove I am good enough, worthy enough, for his love.

Oy, what a wacko.

Anyway, I was not healthy, I chose someone very unhealthy, I spent 25 years with someone who was unhealthy and abusive, and now... .by the Grace of God, I can see where the issues are, and I am in the process of working through that, so that I eliminate that issue and never repeat those patterns.

I'm learning (through therapy) that I suffered narcissistic abuse from my father. While I've known he was a narcissist for sometime, I'm only now coming to terms with the serious effect it's had on me my whole life.  One effect is that I in fact show some narcissistic traits and one in particular is fantasies of a perfect relationship mate that will make me whole.  When I met my exgf, I was floored and had never meet someone who was so amazing. It really did seem perfect and also too good to be true. She seemed to have all of the qualities a person needed to have for me to really open up and let them into my life. We were an incredibly good match on paper, physically, politically, you name it. This wasn't just mirroring. She was a person who "vivir la vida" and I felt I was too. I fully gave myself into the relationship from the start.

The flipsilde to this of course is that she, as someone who I believe has BPD, matched me note for note in intensity and fantastical uninhibitedness. It was a drug like I've never been on before and it was a recipe for f'ing disaster. The arguments and dissonances that came up wouldn't sway me from my belief that this relationship was the one -- i just needed to be clearer in my communication. I took her complaints that I wasn't loving her or caring for her as important lessons about how I could be a better person. 

I think about those arguments now and how strange they really were -- how she never said something as simple as  "I can see your point and why you feel like that."

She understood me and appreciated the authentic  me id never had that from any previous r/s

The downside is the devaluation because they understand you when they reject you its incredibly  Painfull


To finally feel like someone has heard your voice and found it beautiful to be told later that voice was "ugly"  

I've never been so devalued in my life never had such a painful bu never been so close to just giving up .

I totally know what you are saying. First I was on a pedestal to the point of being treated like a queen. Then I don't know what happened but within 24 h he transformed into a silent angry guy filled with anxiety and said that he doesn't like some side of me. This is so painful. It has been 10 months but I'm still thinking of him constantly. He abruptly broke up via text and that was it. A few days later he texted again and said sorry I treated you like that just to break up with you. And he also said he felt bad because he knows I cared about him. Then he was gone and never wants to be contacted. Then a few months later I noticed he has been posting on pick up artist forums to find wingman to meet women. So it appears he tried to have a relationship with me but couldn't and now he's back to picking up one night stands to feed his sex drive. It's gross. But WHAT is My problem. ... why can't I just move on. I still want to see him and know how he is doing.

it's just so painful like my arm was ripped off.

For me, it was largely due to the fact that she was different from everyone else at work.  She was new and exciting, and we liked a lot of the same TV shows.  She also spent so much time talking to me, and I found her humorous.  She was edgy and attractive, with a nose ring, a lip ring, and three large tattoos. 

And honestly, when I see pictures of her, I still think, "Wow.  She is so hot." And she was the first person to show any romantic interest in me, so I felt like I was on top of the world because I had this super attractive and sexy woman whom thought I was perfect and whom I thought really wanted to be with me.

I do not believe my attraction to my pwBPD was related to her positive or negative BPD traits.  She was very physically attractive, we had a childhood connection, and we simply had a lot of fun together.  All the BPD stuff was really a blindsiding for me that came later.   

For me it was that she acted really childish and immature. I matured very fast and so this was a piece of myself I was missed and what we miss in ourselves we subconsciously look for in others.

I think the issue lies within when we put up with the behavior that many others would not. That's the difference in my mind. People who are not attracted to pwBPD would most likely say, "see ya" when the 'crazy' begins. I need to read more about co-dependence and caretaker which is where I will probably find my answers.

I fell for her because she is what I am looking for in a woman. She isn't super model attractive, but it is everything else that made it work for me. All that idealization and what not, that wasn't it for me. I'm 38 years old, I've heard all that stuff before, I know that I am well educated, well traveled, smart, good looking, successful, blah blah blah. I don't need or even want a woman to make a big deal out of it, or any deal at all. I don't want a woman who walks behind me, I want somebody who walks beside me, somebody I connect with on the intellectual and other levels. And she was that. I had a dinner with her Saturday night after not seeing her for 8 months and here is a soon to be 27 year old woman telling me how she is working 6-7 days a week in a new place she just moved to 2-3 months ago to work herself up in the company and trying had to get into the corporate headquarters with the goal of becoming the director of compliance in 2-3 years and with the long term goal of being the VP. For a guy who has always been career driven, this is beyond attractive to me. I don't know how many times I told her that at her age she got her $hit together better than a lot of 30+ year old women I know. We have always had this free flowing conversation, we just clicked. I never had to put up with any flat out abuse (verbal or physical) like a lot of people on these boards. It really felt like a hit a jackpot, a once in a life time thing, we even called it "our movie"... .until out of nowhere over night the romantic comedy turned into a horror flick for no reason I can think of.

Exactly.

Thank you. While it took me a while, as soon as I saw the  red-flag  red-flag  I left. It hurts, but I think we give ourselves too little credit for trying to move on

This might explain some cases.  However, it seems like in a lot of the relationships described on these boards (perhaps in the majority of them), the BPD manifestations didn't occur until the Non committed himself/herself to the relationship, at which point the Non tried to work through some of the road bumps (not realizing the existence of an underlying mental illness) before the Non was then blindsided by BPD in all its glory.  Thinking of my relationship, my pwBPD was an acquaintance for more than 10 years and it wasn't until 6 months of full-on dating (after this 10+ years of knowing each other) that the first "off" moment occurred.  This "off" moment was surmountable.  And then the second "off" moment didn't occur until the 1-year mark.  About 1.5 years in, her weekly erratic behavior picked up, but it wasn't until about 2 years in that full-fledged abuse towards me surfaced.  By the 2.5 year mark I blocked her after her display of very heinous behavior, and I haven't communicated with her since.  I think what happened to me could happen to anyone who's not aware of BPD (which seems like the vast majority of people).

That is so true. He read me and was so sensitive to me that he figured out everything about me in a short time and swept me off my feet. Then something triggered him and 5 months later on our first trip nonetheless he shut down.wouldn't talk. Said it was a bad idea to travel with me. Accused me of not trusting him. Ugh... .all this on a vacation. When we got home he dumped me via text and kept my suitcase for a month. He would not let me come over or talk to me anymore. I did not do ANYTHING to provoke this... .he just went silent. Then he taxi'd my bags over to me a month later. He said "I am sorry I treated you like that just to break up with you" and " I am sorry because I know you really care about me" then he went AWOL and I've noticed other weird stuff.  So after the breakup my cousin wanted to cheer me up and took me to hawaii for a week. This was my uBPD ex and I dream place. I sent him some texts that I was there and I'm moving on as per his wishes... .he told me he doesn't want to hear from me anymore. I let some months go by but noticed his website was down for 2 months. (He has his own business ) then it went back up and was crazy. It started out by saying Aloha and welcome to ... .

then instead of discussing his services etc, it broke into how he was ridiculed for not being able to do something and how he conquered it and how determined and dedicated he is to helping people reach their goals... .it was a rant.

About s month ago he updated it to mirror other people's websites in the area. So they can't be themselves. They take characteris tics from who ever they are with to create a personality. ... .they have not sense of self.

Tim... .my situation was similar to yours. Not the exact time frames etc... but in that I did know my pwBPD for a couple of years before dating and lived with her a very long time before she started directing the BPD behavior toward me. I thought that I was immune to that part of her as I saw her display it to others, but not me. I talked to her about it on a few occasions when I saw the behavior directed at other people, but now I actually think those discussions actually may have been stored and used to build up resentment toward me... .because I was finding fault in her... .not sure. I can say, that when she did unleash her BPD traits on me it was like an avalanche of horror. It deeply damaged me.

Some of the things she said and did were so unprovoked, so disturbing and so uncalled for that, like you, I could never engage in any contact with her again for any reason...

I know she is disordered/mentally ill... .but I have this perception of a deep evilness that wants to cause others pain... .and I just cannot put myself in the path of that for any reason ever again.  I miss having the feelings that I had for her. So this reality just saddens my soul... .but it became about my personal dignity and basic survival. I so wish that it had not... .but it is what it is... .at least that is my perception.

I thought she was sweet, smart, attentive and loving. I thought I met this amazing person who thought the world of me and loved everything I did.

Little did I realize she was mirroring me. Her identity is non existent. I actually fell in love with myself.

It's a little over a month since the final breakup and I recently realized in the three years I knew her all I know is she likes collecting rocks and nature. No goals, dreams or interests.

Oh wait... .I know all about her exes. I am beginning to see she really enriched my life (and yes I'm being sarcastic)!

He was very smart and funny, sweet and thoughtful, affectionate and loving, joyful and enthusiastic, always so grateful of every small thing I did for him, he was constantly telling me he admired me, loved this and that about me, we had so much in common, values and tastes... .

Yup... .Too good to be true... .red-flag

www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=7981.0;wap2

Mine did not appear disordered until after we moved in.

He was physically, intellectually, emotionally attractive.  Attentive, understanding, loving. 

I felt very comfortable being me and felt accepted completely with him... .

Then he showed another side after over a year later.

Yes, I'm starting to realize that I basically fell in love with myself.  Like you, now that I've been away from her for three weeks, I realize that I know very little about her.  I know that she likes Doctor Who and Game of Thrones, but so do millions of other people.  I know that she likes Pokemon way more than any 22 year old should.  And I know that one of her favorite Shakespeare plays is Julius Caesar (probably because of all the lies and backstabbing!). 

But other than that, I really don't know what music she likes because she would just sit in my car and scan through all of the satellite radio stations, never really stopping on one for too long.  I really have no idea what she does for fun, even though she told me she likes zoos, museums, and Civil War battlefields (all of my favorite things, so they probably aren't hers).

Mine also seemed to have no goals.  She got her teaching certificate and long-term subbed, but she never asked the principal to write her a letter of recommendation.  She never even attempted to apply to any jobs.  When she was love-bombing me, she said she wanted to marry me and adopt a kitten with me, but she always used to tell me that she never wants to get married.   

Yes, I matured very early and have always been a rule follower.  I rarely drink, and when do, I never drink enough to get drunk.  I've never smoked or done drugs.  I do drive over the speed limit, but not enough for a cop to actually care about giving me a ticket.   

She drinks and gets drunk very often.  She has smoked marijuana and smokes cigarettes.  She frequently drives way over the speed limit and ignores other traffic laws.   

I don't know.

But my T says that we're going to dive in this -- and how I missed the red flags -- starting this week.

I do know that I was in a long distance relationship with a possible uBPD woman before (years and years ago).  She said all the right things, and I think my need for validation myself is a big thing.

The other girl -- from roughly 10 years before I met the stbx uBPDw -- once told me that I was "a good man, and she was proud to know me."  I think at that point I was hooked.

Gomez

My pwBPD traits seemed normal in most ways and I believe is normal in many respects with the exception of a complete inability to trust her inner self and therefore others as well. 

I fell in love with what I liked about her; outgoing, fun, friendly, insightful, pretty, intuitive, educated and we shared similar outlooks on life, politics, religion and family in addition to difficult family of origin issues - which sealed the deal for me.

In hindsight, I can now see that there were signposts, even ones that were not directed at me that I passively addressed with her.  Little did I know that these  red-flag 's would eventually become directed at me.  It took time, but it happened.

I just wanted to add... .

Like Tim, even looking back in hindsight, it is tricky for me to see any red flags that I missed... .when evaluating my partner.

This often confuses me in how I process what has happened.  

I do though, now realize that he was in the process of completing some post divorce items... . I can now see how I participated in a triangulation of sorts... .trying to "rescue" him the "victim" from his abusive uBPDxW "the persecutor."  

However, there were no real waving flags so much.  And he WAS legitimately finishing up divorce things that I had complete compassion for... .anyone would.

I don't know your exact situation, but it seems odd to me to question a Non by asking, "How did you miss the red flags [of BPD]?" when the Non was completely unaware of the concept of BPD.  Nobody can see red flags for something he/she doesn't know exists.  Even in an extreme case where perhaps your pwBPD was already divorced twice, the Non might see red flags that the person was difficult, but the Non still wouldn't magically be able to know about the concept of BPD (with BPD being much, much more complicated than simply dealing with a person who is difficult or noncommittal). 

That's something that I don't get as well. Of course, after the fact, after I read enough literature to write a damn PhD on this topic, I could say - yeah, that was a red flag, that was a red flag. Because I know the rules of the game now. I have been pretty good at distancing myself from women who are trouble. I'd never date a drug addict or a person with obvious mental illness. I'd been watching one of my acquaintances (can't even call her a friend) going through friends like they were some disposable gloves and stayed away from her not only in a romantic sense but also as a friend too because I have no desire to be associated with people like that. And that's all before this whole personality disorder knowledge. There was NOTHING that was so blatant about my ex's behavior that I could say - "Nah, too much, I'm out." If nothing else, because I simply didn't know what I was dealing with.

Summer Storm,

    That's interesting you mention that.

3yrs and I really have no idea if my exBPD even had any interests other than me.  She liked video games. She enjoyed the fantasy ones (ha ha) and liked nature and hiking.

But the latter I just assumed that was normal as she's a lesbian.

lol.

But we never discussed her goals, her loves her dreams.

Because they were all MINE. She will mimic the same with my replacement.  She told me the final time we spoke that she is in love with this person and they are so "deep" she has never had a physical and emotional connection with someone like this before.

Who says that to someone they just dumped? An A-hole with BPD that's who.

I don't believe it.  "words and actions" never match with these people. They are souless.

When I met mine, I was very vulnerable after leaving an abusive first marriage.  He expertly saw what I wanted/needed and became that.  Like others said, it was like falling in love with myself.  I look back and feel totally duped.  Then  the abusive behaviors crept up on me and because I hadn't yet dealt with the baggage from my first marriage, I slowly dropped all boundaries until I started to feel like I lost myself.  Worked hard to get myself back and in the process, began to see the unhealthy nature of my marriage and emotionally detached.  Still, it took a few years to end it because clearly I was still working on myself and had a long way to go. I'm there now, and have finally realized what I will and will not tolerate in a relationship and have learned to love myself enough to care for me first.

Yes, mine loves video games.  When she isn't watching video games, she gets on YouTube and watches videos about video games.  The funny thing is, mine once criticized me for immersing myself in fantasy literature and TV shows because I find reality too difficult to deal with.  This was a few days before she tried to commit suicide.  In reality, I read fantasy literature, but I also read many other genres (I'm an English teacher), and I watch the same fantasy TV shows that pretty much everyone else in America watches.  Generally speaking, I spend about 85% of my time either working, running, or hiking, so I wouldn't say I try to escape life by reading/watching fantasy.  She sure does, though.   

Pretty Woman,

I think this is brilliant!  :light:

I have read many posts re what to look for in a potential partner.  I do not recall coming across this one... .yet it is perfect and needs to be added to my list!

Some people look to eliminate potential partners by looking for red flags.

Now others of us on here will tell you that those flags... .really were not visible, not waving, hidden until a year or more had passed.  (I'm one such person)

However, I believe that any person without a clear sense of self concept and self worth... .will have a very difficult time telling you what their hopes are for their future.

Now that is not to say that every person who cannot tell you where they will be in 10 years from now will be unsuitable as a partner... .they can have other unpredictable elements in their future that they anticipate, or other reasons this is difficult.  However, I do believe the way they answer this fundamental question... .can give a person some good and useful insight... .if we listen well enough.  (The question of... .where do you see yourself in 5-10 yrs?  What are your hopes, dreams?)

Sunflower,

   Yeah that was the weirdest thing. I never really thought about it and when I did I asked one of her exes who I am friends with.

Same thing. She never discussed anything future oriented at all. Probably because deep down she knew there wouldn't be one with us.

I also noticed all her exes are Dr.s or have higher education and she racked up $20k in debt and never finished college. There really aren't career goals or anything to that effect at all when it comes to her.

I wonder if this is less of a premonition... .or forecast...   rather more of self doubt... .and fear of vulnerability?

My ex did this too.  I feel for him he was always afraid to take the lead.  Fear of being responsible for things going wrong.  Fear of being let down and rejected.  He always mentioned how he did not really really feel passionate about marrying his ex... .more like she made him realize that it was the thing to do.  I think he prefers to be led into things... .vs ever making a choice.  That way he can never be wrong, never have guilt.  He is a perpetual victim... .by design.

There's at least a 50% chance here (honest opinion, 99% chance) that the reality is that the pwBPD begged for marriage, and now goes around telling another story.  This was what my ex did and it's consistent with others' experiences here. 

That is a valid point... .  However, with my ex... .it would be entirely consistent with his personality in all things.  He rarely takes the lead... .he never makes life decisions.  He does not choose a path or direction.  He waits for life to happen to him. 

(He is NPD/BPD triats... .exW is full BPD.  Not that it matters... it doesn't)

Gotcha.

Mine used to tell me that she never makes long-term plans.  In fact, this is one of the last things she said to me before she told me she didn't want me in her life anymore.  The funny thing is, the day before, she asked me to go with her to a Pride festival that was almost a week away.  She would make plans for a few days ahead and then either change them or cancel them.  It was exhausting, and it messed up my schedule.  I'm someone who makes plans a month, two months in advance, puts them on my calendar, and follows through.  I once cleared a whole weekend to spend time with her, and a few minutes before she left work that Friday, she texted me and said she was "sick" and going home instead. 

Summer Storm.

  That is common (the cancelling of plans). Mine didn't cancel on me, the SO as much as she did on friends. She always had a headache or wasn't feeling well. Me, she would just pick a horrible fight. Sometimes she would dump me right before the event. Sometimes she would keep me on the phone bickering with her so that I was late to the event, dissapointing the hosts.

I will say this: I am blessed that the friends that rode this out with me stuck by me. They are amazing people. I have a friend taking a train up from the city once a week... .this friend has a demanding job, to attend al-anon with me (I have a lot of alchoholism in my family and neglect which I feel led me to stay in this horrible relationship).

It's a ray of light in all this... .I DO have people I can count on. My ex is not one of those people.

Not to mention this was my first same sex relationship. It really screwed with my head.

PW

Ditto.

My ex- came to me as a sort of a combination of an enthusiastic child, sweet girl who had been hurt and was scared to open up, and dirty old man in one pretty package. Between her actual character traits and her mirroring, she just seemed like an amazing match for me, and provided so much of what I always wanted (though a lot of that was mirroring). She had some problems (like broken finances), but I believed her when she sad it was unfortunate circumstances and life falling apart, and felt that working together with me from a stable base would let her get a handle on them, so it was actually a draw that I could help her without hurting myself.


I don't think this is true - when I started dating her I had no concept of BPD at all, and didn't fundamentally get the idea of how skewed the thoughts of a person with a personality disorder are. But I glossed over a number of worrying things and convinced myself that I could somehow work through completely unacceptable behavior because I was in love and stubborn. While I would associate them with BPD now, I was aware that they indicated a problem before being exposed to BPD.

Some of the things that I should have considered red flags but ignored early on were:

Told me a 'funny' story about raging out at someone over what they did with leftovers from food she made from her grandmother's recipe. It was a huge, disproportionate rage, and in it her SO and roommate were clearly used to these rages and cringed away from the outburst.

We were going to go to a party on my birthday, she got strep throat and had to cancel, but wanted me to go anyway. However, she said that she hoped I would only have a good time, not a great time, because she always wanted me less happy without her.

We hung out with some friends and she got mad afterwards, started an argument on the phone on the way back, then started driving to her house (2 hours away) instead of mine until I 'talked her down'.

Would talk at length about details of her day, but would cut me off from saying 3 sentences about mine.

Got upset at me for talking a second time about things that bothered me (like going to doctor for high blood pressure or a house I liked not working out), but expected me to listen to her complaints over and over.

Accused me of being controlling for telling her that I was cool with whatever worked for her being able to go on a trip I had been excited about, not to worry about me when deciding what to do.

These wouldn't be enough to say 'definitely BPD', but they should have been enough to tell me to hit the brakes on moving in together, and to really examine what was going on and whether she'd be a functional partner for me.

Great line, there was another post floating around asking if our partners really had BPD or not. Does it really matter if they are incompatible with some of the traits?

Neveragain, you make a great point about incompatible with all traits.  For awhile I stayed away from reading about this b/c she did not meet DSM criteria of being suicidal or a drug user and there were a number of others.  Thankfully I got through the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (which even that did not hit me in the first 2 chapters) to read all about the TRAITS of BPD.  I have not looked back since then.  I still argue wiht my marital therapist about the term BPD and now just stick with pw BPD traits.

I saw warning signs before we married.  I attributed them to a women who was in her 40's and never married and having exaggerated responses to certain things.  Love conquers all, right?  At least I thought it would and I was absolutely in love.  Felt it was a God given marriage.  In fact, I still do.  Apparently she doesn't feel the same or is driven by a stronger motivation.

It is all so sad.

I definitely loved how 'unique' my ex was. I always told him that and he being a narcissist loved hearing it. He always kept my interest and whenever I felt pushed to the edge and was fed up he would suddenly come out with some amazing monologue that would just mesmerize me back into being with him. It was absolutely incredible. I am the type of person who feels the need to figure people out and I couldn't figure him out. The end of our relationship was left with so many question marks... .and it all led me here to the realization that he has BPD. Also, he was incredibly sexy and amazing in bed... .it's always hard to let people whom you have fantastic chemistry with go... .

rotiroti, the post asking about whether they really have BPD is on the L2 (Undecided) board, I also commented there :) My opinion is that you have to judge people on their behavior, not on whether they 'really' have BPD, and that trying to figure out if you can REALLY TRULY diagnose it is just an excuse to avoid dealing with bad behavior.


It's amazing how damaging that belief is when you run into someone who can't even see their own issues, isn't it?

I think if somebody doesn't have good reasons to believe that he or she dealt with a personality disorder and still is going down that road to make her or him feel better... .That says A LOT about that person... .


Yet, a whole lot of people stick around because that's the advice they are given by their support group - "Relationships are difficult. Just tough it out! If he/she loves you, he/she will change! Love conquers all! Go fight for it pumpkin!"

By the time I finally gave up, all of my closest support group was more like "finally, what took you so long?"

haha this happened to me as well!

This period of my life also showed me who my true friends were.

The adage "Love conquers all" should be revised and publicly broadcast widely as the following: "Love conquers all except for Borderline Personality Disorder."  The force of love is simply no match for the force of BPD.  This new adage should be taught in schools along with HIV, etc.

I'm a teacher, and I really think that personality disorders should be covered in health classes (taken by every student), or at the very least, covered in psychology classes (electives taken by some students).  Students are taught about drug/alcohol addiction, STDs, and some mental disorders, but they aren't taught about personality disorders.  When my mother was younger, she worked in a mental hospital for three years, and when I told her about BPD, she said she had never heard of it. 

It's simply amazing that BPD is so unheard of, and that personality disorders in general are not common knowledge.  And it's a shame.  This might be because BPD is a relatively recent discovery.  Maybe it takes a major tragic event to capture people's attention.  I understand that Magic Johnson's AIDS diagnose spurred a lot of focus on that syndrome.  I'm not sure what we can do.  I would like to spread awareness about BPD at some point, but for my own personal safety I would like to wait until 10 years of NC has passed.  Anyhow, I do think sharing our stories here, including all of the most tragic details, must be helping some people.

It helps me out! Great thread, thanks.

I can relate to not feeling safe. People w/BPD remind me of a kid that would drop their pet off a roof and watch it die. Then, go running down to it, grieving, in tears. (Which doesn't change the fact that they willingly killed it).

Glad it helps.  That is a great analogy. 

*mod*


This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .