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I am at the point where I need to file a restraining order to make this women go away.   The problem is that if I do that,  I  know thatr the most likely outcome will be her going to jail... .  but more likely someone is going to get hurt. 

My other option is to abandon my children and move out of the state. 

Please help.

Why can't you take your children with you?

File for full custody.

If this 'woman worthy of a restraining order' is their mother, then good chances are you will win full custody of the children.

THEN move out of state.

First off... .she would win custody.  Anyway If I took the the children... .or really do anything to show her I really mean business. Here is exactly what will happen-

1- She makes up a fake domestic violence incidenet and I go to jail

2- She goes to my work and tells them things that no employer ever needs to hear.

3-  when none of that works she threatens suicide.

4- Finally She comes after me with a knife.  If this happens I will kill her. 

I am pretty sure I am just ready "punt" this whole thing. F the f-ing children.  This is worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire life. 

I'm sorry you feel so stuck.

Can you take a break... .go on 'vacation' for a couple of weeks w/ no cell reception, no outside communications, so that you can go pray, meditated, journal; whatever it takes to clear your mind, decompress and make solid decisions moving forward?

You need to remove yourself from what sounds like a very angry, and potentially explosive situation.

We all know how incredibly angry pwBPD can make us feel, but there were red flags of serious out of control anger in your post.

You need to make rational decisions if you are the "non" in this situation.  Protect yourself.  Protect your children.  Protect the woman you feel is ruining your life.  Get out before someone gets hurt.

Please.

Surg_Bear

yes I could do that. 

What is NON?  'there were red flags of serious out of control anger in your post."  Last week her mom tried to kill herself cause she doesnt know how to deal with her daughter.  Someone is gonna die.  I am not f-ing joking... .is there like in person support group help for this?  I need help.  I honestly feel like I could be driven to suicide.  I need help.

Here is the deal... .just cause I dont think I have given the full picture.  I have moved to women out of my home.  I pay like 1200 a month to provide her with an apartment.  She is incapable of providing for herself and her parents are NOT a F-ing option. 

From my perspective we are broken up... .she cant see reality... .I am not sure what she thinks.

From time to time she shows up at my house... .she throws herself at me sexually. 

I simply want her to go away.  Forever.  I have so many fears blocking me from taking action... .I am paralyzed. 

Yes there is help. Google "abuse advocate _____" in the blank put your city and state. It will give u the closest advocate to your town. Call them and give them your situation and they will point you in the right direction

Hi jac

I can understand where you are coming from. Its like youve hit rock bottom and have nowhere left to go. Trust me there is always a solution.

Im guessing your not sleeping well. Probably not eating either. This adds to your confussion of what to do. The reason your not sleeping is because you cant find a comfortable solution. They all seem no win.

Firstly I would get a dictaphone to record any interactions with your ex. Comunicate by text and email so you have proof of whats been said.

I personally would file for custody of the kids and a restraining order. You may be able to get an emergency hearing if you fear for the childrens safety. If not get into with child services. Remember the children are innocent victims in this.

You need to get you and the kids away from her.

You can fore warn your boss what is going on. By telling him you are trying to get yourself and the kids away from her and that she may try and cause trouble for you at work he will probably dismis her allegations.

I was left with nothing when I split with my ex wife. She took everything and took me to the cleaners financially. She also took my two boys. I was living in a tent. Im now doing ok and my boys are living with me and not talking to their mum.

Dont give up hope it does get better. And dont let anger take over as it will be your downfall.

Hi,

New here so hope it's okay to chime in.

False dv claims are usually not a problem if you've filed for divorce and custody. Judges see this a lot. It may not be much comfort to you and it's no guarantee but it's something.

Having been through one very ugly break up with NPD spouse involving custody, my advice is:

1. File for divorce and custody - keep your custody requests vague - you can get into detail in court. If you are a good parent, most judges favor joint custody these days. Filing also gives you protection from her wacko claims.

2. Document everything - keep a simply log book of abusive or erratic events.

3. Communicate as much as possible by email as this can be used as evidence in court. Always make sure you appear absolutely even tempered, only interested in welfare of kids and more than willing to co-parent with her. If you seem angry or threatening around kids, etc. it's not helpful to you.

4. You may want to wait until she's incriminated herself via email a bunch before you file the divorce if you think she will have her guard down and you can amass some evidence.

5. Get yourself counseling - the abuse victim can often appear crazier than the perp in court due to the years of abuse.

6. Keep yourself safe even if this means placating her until you have all of your ducks in a row.

7. Finally, I don't know how old your children are but ultimately you have to save yourself to be a resource for them. If you have to step back and they are old enough to maintain a relationship with you via phone or email maybe that's okay - eventually they will be old enough to elect which parent they wish to live with.

My heart goes out to you. Be safe.

Hi jac5073

Welcome to the boards. I'm sorry you're going through all of this with your ex(?). It's understandable given what you've shared so far. Are you married? You mention children, how old are they? You say you live separately, for how long? We'd like to help, can you give us a few more details? What behaviors are you seeing that warrant a restraining order?

Looking forward to hearing more of your story. 

We get that this is serious. Can you tell us the back story?

How old, how long together, marriage, children's ages, prior DV or suicide attempts, etc.

Let's get it out - we can ask questions and then hopefully help with some advice.

Step One in all of this is devising a safety plan.  We can help with that.

Thanks for all your advice... she came to my work yesterday.  I eventually called the police and had her removed from the equation.

So problem solved.  I simply want her to go away.  The police made that possible.  I learned an valuable lesson.

Can we get the backstory, JC?

Just look up Casey Anthony on google... .change the names... and there is your story. 

Just kidding (kind of... lol)

Anyway... I met this girl nine years ago at the public defenders office... she was there getting an attorney for violation of a restraining order, assault with a deadly weapon, possession of a handgun and a sword.  I had just gotten my second DUI.  We started dating and she had this elaborate story that seemed to "explain away" the weapons and other charges.  I vividly remember thinking "this girl is definitely lying... .she is definitely guilty of something. I also was attracted by all of the chaos in her life.  I just liked "crazy". 

Shortly after we started dating I began to notice all of the BPD traits -

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. ... .

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

Textbook BPD.   

So to make a long story short, 8 years later we had 2 kids, a house and she is cheating on me every chance she could get... .keeping me awake every night with her delusional insecurities... totally unpredictable.  In august of last year I pulled the plug on it all and moved her out of my house. 

Since then I have done everything I can possibly do to limit contact with her.  It is like she cannot see that we are broken up... .if you asked her right now... .like a couple hours after her being removed from my house by the police... she would likely say "I thought we were trying to get back together".

So that's the short version.  But this morning was a monumental break through... .I called the police... .finally after nine years of violent confrontation.   

When did you tell her and the children to leave?  Where are they living now? Has she filled for support? Have you filed for divorce or talked to an attorney?

Also, you mentioned that you would not get custody.  Did something happen?

When was the last time you spend a night together?

In august of last year.  The children never left.  They spend 80% of the overnights with me.  If not more.   She attends school full time at nights... so I take the overnights.  she also has a couple of boyfriends so I take every other weekend.  


SHE is living in an apartment five minutes from my house.  I pay for this apartment... utilities... everything.  


No she refuses to... I have asked her to on multiple occasion.  I even tried to file it on her behalf.


We are not married.  I spoke with an attorney.  He said that I should spend money to hire an independent mediator to have a custody agreement drawn up.  

The lawyer told me I could go for this- 50% physical custody (currently it is 80%). Pay $700 per month for now until she gets her nursing degree and RN (currently I pay 1200 to 1400) and then recalc based on combined income.  Attorney indicated that it should work out to $200-300 per month if she gets a job making 50-60k.  

All of this stuff is really nice and everything but at the end of the day my goal is no physical contact with her. Thats it.  


Yes.  I have been arrested multiple times.  I am a recovering alcoholic. She has video tape of me doing incriminating things while drunk.   One arrest was for a domestic assault incident.

On paper... all you have on her is the previous domestic incident nine years ago with the previous boyfriend.  I could file a restraining order and "set her up for failure".  She would violate and I could then get the kids.  But I am having a moral dilemna with that.  


Last night.  She came over uninvited and I screamed at her to leave... .I had no fight left in me.  This morning I had her removed by the police.  

It sounds like there is still a lot of conflict for a couple separated for almost a year.

What is the conflict about? 

Why was she sitting in the parking lot for hours yesterday?

Only asking so we all can get a feel for this before tossing ideas at you.

How is it decided where the kids spend the night? Are they with you 80% of the time by their choice? Yours? If you ended up with 50/50 visitation, is it likely that the kids would end up (unofficially) at 80% with you? This happens -- it's not uncommon.

What kind of relationship do the kids have with their mom? With you?

Where are you in terms of recovery? Are you in AA or working with a counselor? (These are things a court will want to know, if it comes to that).

Hi Suzn-

I gave a lot of the back story already above and answered a a lot of your questions.  I wanted to answer this one directly -

What behaviors are you seeing that warrant a restraining order?

When I cut her off completely.  specifically not answering the phone or turning the phone off, she corners me in a place vulnerability.  There are typically two places this happens: work and while I am sleeping.  All she wants is to talk to me but none of what she says really makes any sense at all.  When I attempt to escape, she follows me and will find some sort of object... .like my keys or phone and holds it hostage until I agree to talk to her or pay attention to her.  If I take it one step up and try to run away... she will stand in front of me... .block a door.  Or get in the car and refuse to leave.  When we lived together she would get the knife and hold up to me chest if I didnt obey an order.  That hasnt happened in over a year though.  Ultimately I do escape... or more often diffuse the situation by caving... .but everytime I get away... I call her and say "dont come over again"... that happens once a week on average.

How is it decided where the kids spend the night? Are they with you 80% of the time by their choice? Yours?

Mostly this is her choice.  When her college classes were going on... I could honestly say that the overnights were dictated by schedule... .she had class until 10 at night on most nights.  But now that it is summer... she can't have the kids for more than a couple of days at a time before she starts to meltdown. 

What kind of relationship do the kids have with their mom? With you?

I would say it is really good on both sides.  When she is with them... she is a really good mom.  I do okay... I am have a problem with disciplining them. I also spoil them a lot.   

Where are you in terms of recovery? Are you in AA or working with a counselor? (These are things a court will want to know, if it comes to that).

I have recovered from alcoholism through the 12 steps of AA.  I currently work with new comers. 

What is the conflict about? 

She can't be alone for more than a couple of hours at a time.  She needs some sort of male attention or else she begins to act out... its like she starts having panic attack. When she tries to get that attention from me... I reject her.  This is what causes the conflict most of the time.  In addition, there is a lot of fighting about money and time... .particularly I have wanted her to get a part time job for a year now and she refuses to do it... I want her to be at her apartment in the mornings when I drop off the kids before work.  Often she is not there... typically she sleeps somewhere else if she doesnt have the kids.  That usually causes me to act out and get angry. 

Why was she sitting in the parking lot for hours yesterday?

Because she wanted me to talk to take her out for movie and dinner.  I told her no... absolutely not.  And she just sat in my vehicle in protest.  She stole my keys and computer and locked them in my car. 

OK. 

So there is still a relationship of sorts going on.  You pay her bills (she has little incentive to sign an agreement), she looks to you for some companionship (I assume that you do spend some time with her).  You co-parent together.

In a more immediate sense, she pursues, you reject, and she pursues harder (natural reaction to rejection), you cave (reward bad behavior).  Not faulting you, just sorta mapping out the human dynamics here.

There seem to be some drama in both your styles - you probably feed off each other in this sense.

Legally, you lawyer is recommending a settlement that is a 50% of what you are paying now, so that is a tough sell. She's not going to be motivated to settle if you keep paying.

It doesn't sound like things are going to change until you get an termination plan in place - and back away from drama that you are partially responsible for and in some ways enabling.

Do you know what child support the state will expect of you?

1400 if she doesnt get a job and has 100 percent custody.  It goes down as her income goes up and my custody percentage increases.   But I am looking to move in to a more volunteer role in life focusing on more service... .Once I do that my income is going to drop significantly... .Also she is getting a job ad an RN soon.  The lawyer and I have come up with a plan to wait until her income surpasses mine and then go to court with me having defacto custody... .In otherwords... .80 percent.  If it about money... .That's how I will do it. But right now it is about removing her from my life as much as possible.  Money is about 6th on my priority list. 

If your income drops, the court may agree with her lawyer to 'impute' your income potential.  So depending on how you handle it, making less may not drop your financial obligations.  Same goes for your stbEx, if she is able to earn more but doesn't for whatever reasons, the court may listen to your lawyer and agree to 'impute' her income potential.

How long have you had the intention to switch careers?  Have she and others known about it for a long time?  Whether you have or not, you don't want to make it easy for the court to conclude your real intent is to avoid or reduce child support obligations.  If this is something contemplated only recently then we here in remote peer support can't be sure which way it might go.

As an example, there was a case in California where a doctor quit his practice and literally started flipping burgers.  The court refused to reduce or set a low child support amount due to his income potential and the conclusion he was trying to avoid CS.

In my case, I was able to get the court to impute my ex's income potential at minimum wage.  She was choosing skills that depended upon customers and she never got enough of them to earn even that much, or so she led us all to believe.

In MD it is just a percentage of income.  Its a calculation.  That's if your not married... .Which we are not. If it is a divorce situation then all of that goes out the window.  But I am not worried about money. I really don't care about the money.  If I wanted to I could file for ssi disability... .Then they can impute that... .  But that's really not the solution I am looking for.  I am simply looking for the best way to make her go away from me... .Once the kids turn 18 then I can focus on supporting them... .For now any money given to her is just flushed down the toilet... .So it doesn't matter... .1400... .700... .Whatever.  As long as she stays away from me I will pay whatever. That's one of the reasons I am thinking about giving her 100% custody... .And I will just move to Hawaii or something.

I am looking at doing some maintainance work at the local mission... .I want to be close to recoverig addicts and alcoholics... .That's what I do in life.

Are you talking about just legal custody or parenting too?  Frankly, walking away won't help the kids.  They need you more than they need the $$$.  And if you don't have a relationship with them while they're young, they may not want one when they're grown.  You have a years-long window of opportunity now.

If you delay parenting until they're 18 and adults, you will have missed out on the joys of parenting and they will have lost the opportunity to have at least some of their childhood live in a stable home.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give them a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that is - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

What you want to do is avoid dealing with her, right?  Well, with some of the skills found here and strong boundaries you can parent effectively while keeping the ex from spoiling your life, keeping her at a safer distance.  That can be accomplished, it isn't easy but it can be done.

Hi jac5073,

Boundaries are a challenge for many members here, it's a learned skill.

She understands your boundaries are negotiable and has learned to escalate her behavior until you cave (letting her spend the night). You have a breaking point and she knows this. What's going on for you when you give in? What other choices could you make when you feel that level of distress?

WORKSHOP: Boundaries: Living our Values

Independent core values determine our decisions and guide our lives. Boundaries are how we define our values to others. A boundary is nothing more than the outer perimeters of our independent core values -  it's like a fence  - anything inside the boundary is consistent with our core values and anything outside the boundary is not. Even when we live our values responsibly, we can still encounter boundary busting. Read more.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Examples of boundaries

This thread talks about examples of our values, our boundaries, and how to defend those boundaries.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

BPD Behaviors: Extinction Burst and Intermittent Reinforcement

What does extinction burst mean and why should I care about this stuff?  Because when you try to implement boundaries you will most likely see an increase in bad behavior because the BPD sufferer isn't getting the response they expect. They become confused and frustrated. You've changed the rules by not giving your typical response. They will increase their bad behavior to try to get the response they are used to.   If we are prepared going in ahead of time... .see how:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

As you can tell by the tone of that last message my level of frustration was almost at a boiling point.  I am not going anywhere... .that's just me taking things to extremes.  I am locked in as a dad.  I do the best I can with what I got and that's not going to change.  

In addition... .I have come to the unfortunate revelation that a complete cut off/ no contact with this women is unrealistic.  So... .I guess now I am left with improving quality of life through changing my behavior using the tools that you all are recommending.

I have instituted a business-only contact rule.  We talk about child care coordination and that's generally it.  Its going to be really hard though cause I need to see her twice a day to exchange children.  How do you all recommend that I enforce this when she pulls out all the stops every time she sees me.  Like for instance right now she is so desperate to talk to me that she is telling g me that she had cancer and is dying.  Just ignore it right?  

BTW... .I want to qualify this by saying that there is no way for me to really know if she has cancer.  If she does not have cancer... .But she is telling me that she does have cancer.  This unequivocally means that she believes that she does in fact have cancer. She believes her own lies. It is actually scary.

Good self-awareness on your part - yeah, you were a bit over the top. Kudos to you.

We have lesson on BIFF communications - brief, informative, friendly, firm.  This is one way to avoid being drawn into drama.

The bigger question is dealing with her desire to just communicate with you - I don't feel well, I won a softball game, my boss sucks, I'm lonely... .Is ignoring this and then caving in the best strategy?

No.  It's the worst.  You are rewarding bad behavior.  Encouraging it, actually.

Controlled contact might work better. Listen (but have a limit) and don't fix - don't get drawn into the exaggeration - just be supportive.

I have cancer.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, its bad

When are you getting treatment

I don't know yet

Let me know when you find out

Who is going to take care of me.

There is a lot to think about. Let me know when you are going to treatment - if I have to keep the kids.

I read your suggestions on boundaries... .Here is  my first attempt... .


Value- I value a peace and spiritually in my life. In my case maintaining this spiritual condition is a matter of life and death... It is vital for my recovery.

Boundary- attempting to emotionally support my ex by spending time with her or talking to her about her feelings jeapordizes my spiritually.

Action- I will limit my communication and contact with this person to scenarios concerning only the welfare of the children

Thats fair.

Where does "peace and spiritually in my life" rank with your value for your children's having a healthy environment to grow up in.

I hear you that you wish she would vanish. I don't question your frustrations with her. I'm not suggesting that you do any of this for her.

It really comes down looking across values and the kids.

Like it or not, she will be in your everyday life until the kids are 18. It looks like she falls back on you when she has needs. How do you transition away from this without creating more drama?


How can you change/reduce the daily physical contact routine? I might start there.

Jac5703 I think I am in a similar situation to you.  You have to stick around and make sure the kids are ok.  I am trying to find a way to have my SO Baker Acted or checked-in to a hospital of some kind then file for divorce and get the kids on a permanent basis. 

If you found this site you are resourceful enough, and can find help here, to find the right solution, save the kids and yourself and move on.  I don't know what moving on looks like yet but I know it can't be much worse than this.

Maintainance of spirituality is #1 on the priority list.  While ensuring the children have a healthy environment to grow up in is #2.   Spiritual growth is a matter of life and death for me... I am a recovered alcoholic. God made that possible. Now I think the next step in my spiritual growth could very well be solving this issue with the ex girlfriend and thereby improving my children's life.  I have so many decisions go make... .Do I continue to support her financially?  Do I file a restraining order? Do I file for custody? I honestly don't want any of that. I just want a normal coparenting experience... .Would taking a stand make things better or worse?

Regarding your suggestions about physical contact... .She is daycare when I go to work and I am daycare when she goes to school.  Does it make sense force her to put school on hold in order to limit the frequency of kid transfers... .

I know it is really hard to be physically in their presence. How old are your kids? What helped me so much is doing our exchange at the police station. Now almost a year later we do exchanges at a store. It limits the antics and baiting.

I've also heard that it is wise to document every good thing that you do.  Be super dad, to the best of your ability, and document that. 

My experience (no kids) was different, so I didn't have to go that route.  Only passing on what I learned from others.

Gomez

It's good that you see you have to put the oxygen mask on you first. You can't provide a healthy environment for your children if you aren't in a healthy place yourself.


It's obvious you have cultivated a relationship with your higher power to help you through which is awesome. I'd just like to say give yourself some credit here, you chose to look to a higher power. You did that. A relationship takes two.


How much of your decision process is you fixing things for her? How much of this is you hiding her behaviors? She's an adult. Are you keeping her from natural consequences, thus enabling her and keeping her from learning life lessons?

From everything you've shared a normal coparenting experience is highly unlikely. What would you do with the kids during the day if she weren't in the picture daily? I know she is right now, however it may help to look at this from a different angle where the responsibility squarely rests on your shoulders.

I would just put them in daycare... .Until the state begins to take money out of my paycheck for child support then I will need to quit working to take care of the kids. 

At least now I have control over where the money goes... .But that's the crux of the  problem.  I have been controling it for nine years and I have made a holy mess out of the whole thing.

If you quit working how will you provide for the kids? Does she work as well as go to school? Do you have any family that could help you with child care? I assume they aren't old enough for school? How are the kids doing dealing with the conflict between you. If you close your eyes and picture the perfect scenario, solution, what do you see? How can you get there?

Is she wanting sole custody, terminal cancer would rule that option out. Not that I sm suggesting ill parents can't be parents, but I would assume she wouldn't be well enough to be the sole parent without a lot of help. Just a suggestion for you to throw out there if she is just trying to get your attention.

Your reality is likely just like ours, that we cannot fix the coparenting issues by 'solving' the issues with the ex.  A solution of that sort may not be possible.  If you can accomplish that, great, but many here have had to put the parenting first and see how the rest worked out - or not.

Generally, setting reasonable but firm boundaries is a necessity.  Yes, it may trigger overreactions, especially at first, but overall it is better than appeasing, dancing around all the issues and triggers or endlessly walking on eggshells.

FYI... .I am on day 5 of the "we only talk about coparenting" boundary.  And the conversation is only via text... .She is still pushing the cancer issue... .Says she has a procedure and I need to come and be there for her.  If I didn't read this workshop on extinction bursts... .I would have caved right there... .But with you all helping I have told her that the most I can do is watch the kids when she has her treatment... .

This is big, jac5073. Changing habits and behaviors is profoundly challenging -- maybe some of the hardest work we can do on ourselves. I am really proud of you! For me, too, the extinction burst workshop was a real game changer. When we understand the behavior, it does help add some clarity to what is otherwise baffling behavior. And that can make it easier to manage our own reactions and responses.

You really made my day with this  |iiii

LnL

With respect to the cancer... .

Let's assume it is true. I suspect that it is.  Cancer procedures can be a wide range of things.

You said that historically you would have "caved".  I take that to mean "rescue".

You're not doing that.  And as long as you have no reciprocal expectations of her should you have a medical condition, that's good.  Don't rescue.

But what is the opposite of rescue? 

I might suggest that it is being supportive - and not rescuing.  You can communicate concern, concern for the kids, hope, compassion - without rescuing and without being manipulated.

This balance my be more effective in establishing that you are detaching and the relationship, as it was, is over.