BPDFamily.com

Hello, everyone! Quick recap for those not familiar with my story. My dBPDh (age 48) for the past 5 years since about a year into our relationship has been fading his parents/siblings phone calls for months at a time. He will eventually answer them, then fade back off again. The reasons kept changing every time I talked to him... .so I am not sure of the behaviors.

My husband has not talked to his parents since we helped them move out of state in April. They call me, ask me if he's ok, if I know why he's doing this... .and I am honest. I tell them I do not know, but he has issues. They are aware of his BPD, and have a better understanding of it, but not much of one.

My husband has been slightly dysregulated this past week. He wasn't too excited about going to his son's house this weekend for the holiday (H last year was reunited with estranged S28 w/ BPD traits) He isn't liking some of the lifestyle choices and parenting techniques (or lack thereof in this case). He felt badly about that... .about not liking who his son is, about not liking his grandbaby's behaviors, etc.

When he was telling me that... .he exclaimed he doesn't want to call his parents. All he wants to do is stay home with me. He said his social anxiety is getting worse. Tonight, we are supposed to go to a concert that his brother and niece will be at, and the first thing he says to me is "great more stress."

There have been times in the past that his anxiety was so bad that we bought tickets but when the day came around he couldn't do it. I told him today that we will do whatever he wants. If he doesn't want to go, that's ok. If he does but he wants to hang around the back or something... .we can do that. No pressure from me.

I should add that at no time does anyone in his family give him a hard time about his erratic behavior. When he does come around, no one mentions it and everyone talks like they just saw each other a week ago. His family is loving and supportive. His mother said this avoidance behavior didn't start until we were dating (she didn't say it accusatory at all).

We have talked about starting counseling, but he will only go if I go with him. I agreed thinking some counseling is better than none, and maybe if he gets comfortable enough he will talk to someone alone down the line.

I am wondering if... .for some reason... .I have replaced his family. He has repeatedly said all he wants to be with me. He doesn't want friends, he doesn't want to go out, he doesn't want to talk to his family. I don't know what I can do to help him not do this... .or if my personality is making it easy for him to do this? I don't know.

Hmm. My husband says similar stuff about how he doesn't need anyone else, only me. I always disagree with him. lol I say, "we are eachother's closest friends, but it is also important to have others you can turn to as well. What if you need to vent about me? What if I am ill and cannot be there for you? What about sports? I hate sports, and you like them, so it would be good to have some friends to play sports with, yes?"

My uBPDh also doesn't want to go to a therapist on his own. I don't think marriage counselling is what this relationship needs, but like you I figure it's a good first step. I am planning to see if my DBT therapist has experience with pwBPD, and if so if he would be willing to see my husband and I together. Do you think that might be a possibility for you as well? Getting counselling through a BPD therapist? I do not expect a regular marriage counsellor would be able to cope with trying to help my husband, honeslty.

About the concert, if you want you go, I think you should go without him if he does not want to go. Do not become a slave to his anxiety. That only would only strengthen his dependancy on you, and his expectation that his anxiety will be catered to. I know that anxiety is a legitimate struggle (I have OCD and two other anxiety disorders--they're not easy to deal with, but I've improved through exposure and response prevention), but that doesn't mean life stops for others just because anxiety is a part of my reality.

Well, I have anxiety issues myself. I honestly would prefer not to go if he isn't going. If I really wanted to, I would. I have been learning not to cater my life around him anymore.

I asked him if he would be willing to do DBT, and he said he was if I brought home self-help books and such, so it's a start. I just don't know where this alienation of his family is coming from, or why

He may not know why either.

I used to think that my husband's family was pretty great and wonderful. My husband's brother is kind of like you describe your husband. He will go for long periods of time without talking to my husband or their mother. Mother in law used to get on my husband's case for not talking to his brother or reaching out to him more often. My husband talks to his mother all of the time and is a momma's boy.

It took quite a while for me to identify the dysfunction in my husband's family. For that matter, it took a long time for my husband to see it. In his eyes, he grew up in a normal family. They went on family vacations every summer. They were members of the church, well known in the community, and were the perfect all American family. It wasn't until we lived with his parents for 4 months that everything became more clear. On the outside, they looked wonderful. On the inside, it wasn't such a pretty picture. His mom is very critical. His dad was largely disconnected from everything, didn't have much to say, and was quiet for the most part.

When my husband's father passed away, that was the beginning of a long period of craziness. As we are coming out of the craziness, my husband is starting to open up and talk about more stuff. It is odd because some of this is stuff that I am hearing for the first time in 17 years. For example, I smacked him on the behind in the kitchen one day being kind of playful. He got all serious and said, ":)on't do that. My mom used to give us spankings in the kitchen when we were kids." He had never really talked about that before.

And something else to think about is whether or not there was a parenting mismatch. I don't remember if it is a specific thread or if it was an article but I remember reading somewhere on this site that a family can be "normal" but if there is a mismatch between the personality of the child and the parent, it can create all kinds of havoc for the child. In my husband's case, he is very sensitive and needs to be coddled quite a bit. That isn't how his mother or anybody in his family operates. My husband is the more artsy sensitive type but he ended up playing sports and doing a lot of "normal" manly stuff like play football in an effort to gain approval and be normal.

I figured I would share because I remember having similar thoughts about my husband and his brother and his family.

VoC, thank you for sharing that. This in particular stuck out at me because in the last 6 months since he's been trying to open up and talk more, I'm finding out things I didn't know for 5 years, and some things he embellished/glossed over he's filling in more honest details.

I know when he's has been angry, he has talked about how he felt as a child with his mother trying to force him into her cultish church, and his dad's drinking habits and choosing to spend his time with his older cousins... .perhaps these are just things he never processed until now? I suppose I'm questioning the timing, and I'm afraid he might be trying to just go full recluse and only have contact with me.

Last night went really well, then really badly. We ended up making the concert... .he was a bit wound up when I got home. He went to the store (the only thing he did that day) and the person in front of him took a long time to find their money, had to go out to their car to find change. That was enough to kick some dirt up. Halfway to the concert, I realized I forgot my wallet and we had to turn back... .surprisingly there was no dysregulation on that one he stayed calm and cool.

The concert was a ton of fun... .really great time. When we got out, it was raining. We planned on going to grab a bite after the show before heading home, and on the way to the restaurant he starts throwing a fit about how dirty the windows are and how much he can't see (common complaint I usually smile and nod this one). Well this time he just kept going and going... .reaaaalllly freaking out. I kept my voice even and calm the whole time. I told him I could see just fine and I would be more than willing to drive. He starts ranting the windows are dirty because I smoke in the car and I drive the cars 80 times more than he does (I haven't smoked a cigarette in either of our cars in years, I use a vape. He, however, does smoke)

Then it jumps to how I never check the oil, and some other random things he could muster.

Then the fun part starts. I can't recall the exact dialogue, but at this point my nerves were shot and we were going back and forth about smoking in the car and he starts yelling ":)O YOU WANT ME TO GO 130 MILES PER HOUR ON THE WAY HOME?" I said I wasn't answering that it's a ridiculous question... .he yells it again... .I try to say something and he yells it again. I told him if he chose to drive that way, I would call the police. He slams his foot on the gas, and I pulled out my phone and hit 911. He instantly slowed down, pulled over into a neighborhood, throws his glasses out of the window, and starts yelling that he demanded and answer and I was refusing to give it to him. Again, I just kept saying I understood his frustration with not being able to see as well as he would like, but no words I do or do not say have an impact on what he chooses to do with his foot.

He kept sputtering to come up with something... .trying to get me to bite. I did not bite. Even when he drove for a few seconds like a mad man, I did not bite. I stayed calm. He gets back on the road... .gets to the restaurant. He complains again about dirty windows, and I again tell him I can drive home. He spins out of the parking lot, goes to a gas station, washes the windows, and drives us home.

At home, he strips and turns the light off in the bedroom. I get my pjs on and I'm kind of fumbling around using my phone as a light. He gets pissed turns it on and says something about hurrying the F up. I told him I wasn't going to bed yet because I'm hungry and I'm going to make something. He spits out a "enjoy your meal". I make myself a lovely half of a bologna sandwich and come back. He's got the light on, telling me this anger is going to last for weeks!

The flood gate opens and he starts ranting about 20 different things that bothered him lately. I listened as I ate, using SET. The bottom line is when he has too many things in too many days in a row to do, it throws him off. We had the weekend at his sons, the concert, 2 doc appointments and a kiddo sleepover this week. I offered to reschedule one of the doctor appointments, and do the drop off of the kiddo if he could handle the pick up. So far he keeps saying not to bother, but we shall see.

He also went off... .again... .about how he starves all day because "every time he goes to the kitchen your brother is in there" this complaint has been going on for years. Here's how it goes... .he doesn't want to cook anything for himself, because he feels obligated to cook for everyone, even though they feeds themselves and no one asks him to. He doesn't want any of the food I have bought, but doesn't have any ideas of what he wants me to buy him. He doesn't want to go out to have a lunch somewhere now that we have 2 cars because it makes him uncomfortable.

So, there's not a whole lot I can do about that one. For whatever reason if he tries to go into the kitchen and someone else is already there... .he turns around and refuses to go back in there. Part of him expects them to... .I dunno mind read when he might want to eat and stay clear of the kitchen? In the past, however, he has admitted that this problem is his and it's not their fault he feels the way he does.

The last thing he mumbled as he fell asleep was that it wasn't supposed to rain today.

 

Does your brother live with you? I bring that up because my grandmother lived with us for a while. My husband found that to be very difficult. It is one thing to share a house with his wife and kids but having my grandmother here made him feel like a visitor in his own home. My husband is a very private and very territorial type person. He likes having his spaces just so and doesn't really like things to change.

Another thought that I have is based on how things sometimes go down in my house. My husband and a couple of the kids get really overwhelmed rather easily. The only thing to do is to stay calm.

When he asked you about going fast, why didn't you answer him? I know the question was absolutely ridiculous. Do you think he would have had a different response if you had said something like, "I want you to go the speed limit."

I am not trying to pick on you about the window thing. As I read your description of how it went down, it reminded me of something that I have tried to communicate with my husband. If I say that something is dirty, he will try to counter what I say with things like, "I don't see the dirt." That feels horribly invalidating. Driving at night in the rain can be a pain in the butt. Somebody with more sensitive eyes might have a problem seeing through the windshield even if you don't see the problem. I wonder if a possible response to this in the future could be something like, "Yeah, smoking in the car does leave a haze that makes it difficult to see through the windshield." You aren't taking responsibility and you aren't getting into an argument about who is doing the smoking. It is an acknowledgement that smoking leaves a haze on the window. My husband has glasses that are now bifocals. He has a lot more sensitivity to stuff on the windows than I do.

It sounds like all of the stuff lately was a recipe for the perfect storm.

I do want to comment on the stuff with his FOO. If his mother tried to force him into church and his dad drank, that doesn't sound like a "normal" family. It sounds like he has good reason to avoid his FOO. When we were first married, I would try to manage my husband's relationship with his family. I didn't quite get it. I don't manage anything now and he talks to his mom all the time on his own without any input from me.

I think he got to the point of talking to her on his own more often because I had it out with his mom because she was so critical of him. It wasn't the in your face kind of criticism either. It was more of the concerned/pushy mom thing. She would worry about his weight and when was the last time he went to church and little stuff like that. She treated him like he was still a little kid. There was no way he could verbalize some of that though. When he talked to his mom in our earlier marriage, it would send him back to the place of being an incapable little kid. My husband has told me that he tends to stick with me because I give him strength and make him feel like he can do things whereas his mom has this way about her that is so invalidating at times.

My brother has lived with me for 16 years since he was 14. He was in my home when my H and I started dating then married. I bet he feels the same way as your H does in this regard, but my brother is paranoid schizophrenic and cannot care for himself at this time. We are trying to get him into assisted living but it takes forever to get wheels in motion.


Do not worry... .I do not feel picked on. I post because I want input from people who have a different angle to look at, and might point out something I didn't see :) Initially, I said nothing at all about the smoking comment, I just agreed with him about the film but he kept hammering me with how much it was all my fault. I know I shouldn't have said I don't smoke in the car... .but the man knows I haven't smoked cigarettes for years in the car. My H DOES need new glasses and bifocals, so I'm sure he couldn't see. But,he also refuses to go get them.

Perhaps my offering to drive felt invalidating, like I was saying he couldn't drive, or I could obviously see much better than him, so the windows are not as dirty as he thought.


He was screaming and being hysterical. His asking me that question was an attempt to direct the entire argument back unto me. If I said no or "I want you to drive the speed limit" his next line would have been that if I wanted that I should have washes the windows that were so dirty he couldn't see out of them, or how I shouldn't have "argued" with him about smoking in the car, or any number of things. It's his way of changing the subject, changing gears to boomerang the thing right back into my lap.

If he's screaming at me, I will not answer his questions. I will not be bullied. I  have made that clear to him that that's boundary of mine. I don't mind discussing any issue at all, but the moment it crosses that line, I will not engage in the conversation.


His family wasn't "normal". I think he has good reason, but I am questioning the timing. Why was he able to speak to his parents before me but not now? I am not going to get involved with his parents over this stuff anymore. I asked him to help me understand what he would like me to say when his mother calls me... .he said tell her I have problems. And that's what I will do. I don't want to ignore his mom when she calls (she only has my number now. H got a new phone but didn't give number to anyone but me) but I'm stuck about what to say other than the truth. The truth is I don't know why exactly, but I know he's trying to pull away from everyone but me.

Before you, they were all he had. He may not have realized how bad he felt with them until he got out of the fire so to speak. When you are in the midst of an uncomfortable situation, it is often difficult to recognize just how uncomfortable it is until you get out of it. Once out of it, it leaves you reeling and you get to try too heal. While in the situation, it is about survival and making it through another day. Your husband probably has a lot of wounds that he doesn't even realize or notice. After 17 years, my husband is finally starting to talk about some of this stuff. Now that he has you and feels safe with you, he can ignore them. Not sure if that is the case or not but it seems like a possibility.

I had that thought as well. His previous relationships were all chaotic, I'm sure he never felt safe with them, either. If that's the case, I'm wondering what I can do about it. When we start counseling, maybe that's something that can be addressed down the road... .but he might not have that kind of time before his parents are gone. This is so sad to see  He sabotages himself at every turn... .all over shadows and demons that are not really there but are inside his head.

I'll add my two cents to this conversation. My husband also has had a pattern of ignoring his family, but at the same time, wanting to be a part of it, but feeling like he is unwanted.

His parents are deceased and his two sisters and their adult children live on the opposite coast, so there's not much opportunity for socializing.

A quick snapshot: father was brilliant but mean and kicked my husband out of the family when he was in his teens, after he graduated from an elite prep school. Husband went on to college on his own dime (with help from grandmother). I have no understanding why his father hated him so much--and I wouldn't have believed it, had I not seen how his father behaved toward him. My only guess is that he saw my husband as competition for the most intelligent family member role and that he had a mental illness, likely NPD.

Mother was passive and loving, but didn't at all stand up for her son while her husband abused him. All three children were high achievers, but rather worthless in their father's opinion because they didn't achieve at the highest echelons of their chosen professions.

Now the youngest sister mirrors the father's unkindness, while the other sister is warm, loving and passive like the mother.

My husband dreads seeing them, possibly because they have too many memories of his previous acting out episodes--this is my guess. He would love to be included and "a part of the family" but he thinks his sisters are solely focused upon their children and don't care about him.

Over time, they've invited us to participate in group trips, to be at their homes for holidays, to visit us here, but he doesn't want any part of that.

I think that there are too many "anchors" that bring back unpleasant memories with them and as much as he wishes to be included, there's a part of him that prefers to be the outsider.

I see two things here... .

One is what your H dysregulated about, and what you could do to avoid it, like better validation. Other posters have that area well.

The other is that your H dysregulated while driving, and you had to dial 911... .followed by a more raging at home.

Seriously consider protecting yourself with boundaries.

One: do not get in a car when he is driving again. Period. You cannot control the situation once it gets started.

At the gas station I would have told him that I wasnt going to get back in the car if he was driving. Honestly I would walk home first.

It is kinda draconian, but I'd think of it. Seriously.

I would also tell him that the way he drove was absolutely unacceptable if you are in the car.

I'm not sure I would have listened to as much of the rant while you were eating and going to sleep as you did or not. You say you don't stick around when he is yelling. There are other destructive things he can say in a lower voice.,.you can step that boundary up a notch too.

When we were home, he had quit yelling. He quit yelling when I dialed 911 and he stopping driving like that. He was still angry, but no longer yelling or cursing at me. I apologize if that wasn't clear. I wasn't going to go to sleep any time soon, so talking it out was fine with me.

I considered walking home, we were about 5 miles away. At that point, I just wanted to get home quickly. If I refused to get back in the car, it would have caused a bigger scene, and he might have driven angrily then.

I will address the driving issue. It was a little scary, but it was 2-3 seconds. I had the phone in my hand ready to go if he did it. The sad thing is my ex had done similar with me in the car for 10-15 seconds, blowing stops signs. It sounds like I'm just to justify his actions, and I'm not meaning to, just trying to demonstrate he did straighten up rather quickly.

Update: I just talked to his mom. I told her exactly what he said, that's he's got problems. I also told her I really have no idea why he's doing this.

She said she wished she would have done something when he was younger. Before any of the abuse or anything, she said he had a terrible time at school with anything new. She said he would always just bomb it until he gave it an actual go then he would ace it. She said he has always had this anxiety/black and white sort of thinking, even when he was in elementary school.

At any rate, I'm not going to try to protect my H from his choices. When she calls me, I will tell her truth, whatever that happens to be at the time. But yeah... .he's always gotten himself worked up, he's always been hard on himself and full of anxiety.