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First contact from ex in nearly 4 months.  Stomach Churning, feel dizzy, adrenaline flowing... .don't like this.

It was an email.

A bill that didn't get paid when I was with her.

The email:

I need to talk to you about the business getting sent to collections, by xxx.  Please, let me know how to contact you. Thank you.

That's it.  I feel horrible!  I didn't answer, but I am taking care of the payment.

My son recommends I write back  "taken care of, thanks."

What do you think... .I'm getting very anxious here.

It's good advice.

This is a functional communication.  It came without any attitude or emotion.

Respond in kind.

Thanks.  I'll take care of it.

Its mature.  It will be appreciated. You'll look back and be OK with it to.

Thanks Skip.   I know that doing nothing is better than rushing into anything.  I'm gonna do it.  Thank you and thanks for fixing up my post, I'm a bit of a wreck at the moment.  Thank you.

Done.   "Taken care of. Thanks."  I even had my son hit send.  Feels better that I didn't hit send.  Call me a coward... .but I still feel NC. (kinda)

You're highly attached.  Attachment leads to suffering (read the banner ---->

At four months of no contact, its really time to kick NC to the curb and think entirely about detachment.  You fell apart today over a routine communication. There is something there that is going to take mind power to beat.

Think in terms of CBT. We change ourselves to break free from our nonconstructive feelings. CBT is based on the idea that if we wait until we feel better, it will take a long time and we might adopt and make habitual various twisted forms of thinking.  CBT is about forcing ourselfs (within reason) to push out - break it down - break free from what haunts us.

Let's starts working on the mind.   :)

Think of NC as crutches.  OK, you are way past the six weeks and you still can't walk.  Time to look for another treatment plan.

Nice job Dying Love... .Great to ask for help. Great to follow-thru on good advice.   Great that you have your son there for support. That is a beautiful thing!

Dyinglove, you have an awesome son!

Thank you Everyone.  Skip, I guess I gotta get rid of those crutches.  Yes, I do feel attached to her still.  I don't want her and I do want her at the same time.  A lot of stuff, maybe I thought I was getting over it, but maybe I've just been covering it with a blanket so that I wouldn't have to face it.  I feel like I went to pieces, but I feel like with just a little change of attitude, I could have been ok.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not going to contact her at all.  But in a sense I feel that If I saw her and she was like when we first met, well, I really don't know what I'd do.  I'd have to stop and think so I didn't make an impulsive decision.  It's almost like I was catapulted back to Florida, sitting out in the sun and enjoying the weather before I start cooking dinner.

Obviously I am very verbose and descriptive about this stuff. I also feel that I could easily eliminate all this from my conciousness if the criteria on my end were promising.  I'll say it again, if I had money, I'd be out of here, I'd start traveling and enjoying some new sights.

Recieved another reply from her:  Just to find out if there are any other vendors that she needs to worry about on her credit.  I just responded with "none".

Someone replied that they bet she responds to that.  I really think it's over, but if not, I can see that she is trying to open a door here.  But I seriously doubt it.

I even hit SEND myself this time.  I'm better than her and why should I let this get me down?  It's done and I gotta move on.  But I can understand even further right now the importance of NC!

WOW!  I just looked and she DID respond again!

Instead of bits and pieces, I will wait till later in case more happens.

This is exactly how my recycles happened in the past... .a business purpose that she brought to my attention... .then emails... .then phone calls... .then a face to face... .then back together... .

... .I hope that you this does not set you terribly back

#1

HER:

I need to talk to you about the business getting sent to collections, by DFS.  Please, let me know how to contact you

Thank you.

ME:

Taken care of. Thanks.

#2

HER:

Should I worry about any other vendors on my credit?

ME:

none

#3

HER:

Why do I have a hard time believing that. I hope you aren't still using my information.  Otherwise, I hope all is well.

ME:

(no response to this message sent)


Yes it was all very utility. At least it seems that way.

I'm not over reacting, I've taken control, I even sent the second response all by myself (sounds funny).  I will overcome this.

I wrote this to a friend about this incident:

"I'm almost flattered. Almost excited. Definitely upset. Definitely confused.  If I had a gf, I would not even waste a breath on any of this."

And it's so true!

Nice! Great work DyingLove, and I can see why hitting the send button is huge. It's tough!


What's with her attitude? Followed by I hope all is well.

Dying Love... .PLEASE notice that she is taking this opportunity to talk down to you.  You do not need to respond to the insinuation.  Let her sit with that. Not responding allows her to sit with her dished crap. You are taking the high road. Stay close to your son and consult him on all of your moves.  I love that you have his support! Count your blessings! You two have me smiling.   :)

I have NO CLUE.  Plus I'm "in the box" and can't see clearly.

I am NOT responding.  It's dead at this point, and I'm going to just assume that I've reading too much into this.

I didn't realize that she was insinuating anything.  In the box I can't see what everyone else can.  Thank you and everyone for holding my hand today, you know I need it.  This big kid is just that.

This is comical. Let me imply that you are doing something crappy... .otherwise, nice talking to you :)

Excellent translation!  (ick!)    

These are perfectly normal questions between ex-lovers.

And if the roles were reversed - her debt hit Dying Loves credit - how would we feel about the exchange?

We're here to center each other right? Not fan the emotional flames. That's a huge benefit of a support group. :)

This is just normal stuff guys.  No pathology.

DL - your obligation hit her credit.  The normal thing to do is fix it, apologize, assure that that is the end of it.

This is a normal healthy response.

It's not cool. Sorry. I'll text you when this is settled and send you proof of payment to use if you are contacted again.

Mail her a photocopy of the check and the invoice.

This is EXACTLY what makes a person PRONE to be with a person like my ex.  I did NOT read as much into this as everyone else did.  I guess I take crap that maybe I shouldn't?  But after you all bringing this to my attention, I realize what a "dig" she is throwing at me.

I'm not stupid, I realize that she is thinking that I did or might do something underhanded (which I am not and I would not) but I guess I'm not being a critical as a "normal" individual should be?

#1 and #2 are normal questions which were answered in a very normal manner. #3 is an unnecessary cheap shot which doesn't warrant a reply.

AND I'm sure her gut isn't twisted today! (or maybe it is)

I agree with skip, keep it professional but also polite and respectful. If quite reasonable to show proof/reassurance  or a transaction... .And then move on.

Well done Dying love, so far so cool  *)

Just the way he did. He sought out support, took advice, was responsible and kept it simple.  He's moving forward.

I think did a great job. He also protected himself by keeping it super minimal... .which usually is appropriate in these situations.

I really feel this whole thing was about getting contact with him. If the invoice was such a big issue she could have simple advised whatever company ihow to reach him. Instead she contacted him and when she didn't get the reaction she was looking for resorted to child like behavior and figured if she insulted him in a nice way she would get attention negative or positive. It seem to me like either way she was looking to start a conversation.

Thank you Skip.  You always provide great professionally-based resources for us to review and read.

I never considered that I was getting my needs met with "the" drama. But I was, else why else would I do it.

Using this angle of understanding to address the question about the last text.  I would say the correct thing to do is the thing that does not perpetuate the situation.  There are likely a few alternatives to choose from which should be tested against DL's honest assessment of what he is looking for or possibly secretly hoping for.

If you respond, you take this back to the transaction which is supposed to be the point of this whole thing, away from where she is taking this which is baseless personal insults. You are not responsible for what she believes in or not. You are not responsible for what she thinks you did or did not do with her information. So, stone cold, emotionless - "I appreciate your concern but to the best of my knowledge this was the only missed transaction." would do. Then brace yourself since you didn't give the response you she baiting you into. I highly doubt it will be "thank you" you will receive in return.

My ex, in a sense is being a bully.  You cannot dispute that regardless of her motive.

I did what I did.  It was right for me and my situation.  I'm always open to learning more and being a "better me"!.  So every word uttered here today is important.

When we fight a bully on their own turf they have the advantage, the know the lay of the land and where to hide and where to run and where to FIND YOU when you hide.  Texting and emails and phone calls and letters that are nasty, hurtful and other unspeakable things:  -->This is the bully's/exes/BPD's turf.  They know their way around their turf better than anyone.  Anyone = US, the non's.  So, my ex wanted to fight me on her turf today.  No one is better at manipulating me and devaluing me than she is. WHY? because those things are HER TURF, and not mine. She'll win every time.  So what could I do? I can fight her on my turf. My turf is minimal talk and even silence. I know she HATES silence, she's told me during our RS.  She had the last lousy word in this whole email ordeal. I decided not to fight on her turf, she would naturally win.  I kept quiet, and answered her with the same attitude that she asked me with.  There was NO HELLO, NO PLEASE, NO THANK YOU, NO GOOD BYE. 

I was very apprehensive about the NC thing and exes contacting back.  It scared me, I didn't know exactly what to do.  So I decided to take advice and at least NOT to do anything wrong.

I am thankful for all those that supported my actions. I feel I did the right thing.

Four months later and she is worried about this.

I have to agree with the other posters on this. ESP with the snide comments that it's baiting.  If I hadn't lived through this I would have completely agreed with Skip however I've lived this and the ways we have ended right back up in the toxic dance have been through LC like this. 

My suggestion is now what's happened has happened and no more contact. If she contacts you again about this just do not respond.

Exactly!  It's done.  I'm certainly NOT flattered like I thought I might have been.  It all almost took me right back to those last days that were nothing short of the end of the world for me.  I woke with confusion (a little) this morning, but I went out quick last night due to all the stress. Slept from about 11:30 thru til 2am.

It's done. I'm going to take it STILL as an isolated incident and not think that it will be repeated. This will help me thru my day.

She didn't bother ex's #1 or #2 when not necessary during our RS.  Most of the correspondences to ex #2 was because of the child. Understandable even though her way of doing it all was at time weird.

It's done.  I'm thankful once again for all my friends here. Without you all, I would have been so alone in this "new episode" of my BPD adventure. Now I can say that I've honestly been there. It was only one day and just simple stuff, but nonetheless.  Thank you all and wishing you a wonderful day!

What would have / could have flattered you?

Probably the "typical" behavior that you hear about. How they are right on top of you after a BU (sometimes). That lack of contact almost made me feel like even after getting discarded, I wasn't even worth the attention that an exBPD might exhibit.

Everything is so jumbled and confused within a BPD BU, or should I say in MY BU that I used the NC behavior stereotype as a way of not taking everything as much "to heart".  That kind of thinking has it's consequences too.  There is a saying I always used: You don't have to know how to build a car to drive one. Even though some knowledge is good, you don't have to know.  Well, I don't wanna have to become a therapist or life coach to get over all this either.  Until 4 years ago, it was all unknown to me. So for 55 years of my life, I didn't know anything about this. I don't feel that I've missed anything either for all that matters.

Are you hoping she would reach out?  Maybe even try to mend some of what happened? Do you want there to be some mending?

When you moved out they way you did - what message were you trying to send?

Do you think yesterday was about her "fighting you on her turf" and "bullying"?

What message do you think you sent yesterday?

I'd be a liar if I said that I didn't want her back under the right circumstances.  I loved this woman and was IN LOVE with her from the very beginning.  This part was traumatic. Yes I did lose someone I loved and it might as well be death, but add insult to it via BPD.  I would love her to reach and and say, "look at me, I'm getting help, I'm doing better, I'm sorry for what happened, I still love you, I've been with no one since we broke up. etc".  I could possibly see a continuance. The way it is now, that would and could never happen.

They are always fighting on their turf. What they do "IS" their turf. That's why you can't win, you can only run for cover.

I don't think I was consciously sending a message, but hopefully the fact that I will not be abused nor be receptive to the things that she used to do to me.  Maybe the fact that I've changed since I've been away from her, more like I used to be before meeting her.  It seems in what she said, that she hasn't changed very much.  There is so much and so little to be deciphered from the limited communication we had yesterday.  I also see how I could have given her the response that she wanted, had I not thought things out carefully as well as ask for suggestions and help.

What response do you think she wanted?

Well, I gave her exactly what she asked for.  When we were a couple, things were more pleasant for the most part. She was never a master of the written word, but her tone was with some emotion and feeling. When she painted me black, I was a stranger, discarded, worthless to her. So her emotionless questions/responses are perfectly following her demeanor.  I think she wanted me to be more "talkative", but not that it would become pleasant.  I think my brief-ness pissed her off. I can be wrong though.

I don't know if you can easily see this, a lot of conflicting things in the things that you say and do.

This is not fault finding - its intended to be fix focusing.  If you can see yourself in this, you can then start to move out of it.

I don't know if you've studied the 4 horsemen (Gottman) or the Karpman Triangle - we have articles for both here (use the Google box below the moderators names) - but there are learned behaviors that we can fall into in difficult relationships that are self defeating.

We want to shed these.  To do that, we have to see them and we have to be committed to end them. They become second nature - a habit to break.

4 Horsemen Gottman shows four stage of communication breakdown that occur when a relationship fails. One point he makes is that when you reach stage 4, it is totally self defeating. In stage 4 we become conditioned to failure, and so we become overly defensive and make often matters worse (or at least not better).

I think you have the hallmarks of communicating in the stage 4 style. It most likely started months before you left.  The way you left was very stage 4.  Yesterday was stage 4.

It likely a byproduct of the relationship, but it shapes (distorts) how we see things and it will take some focus to shed it.

For example, you really desire that she reach out - even if its just to be cordial - but you are communicating back to her in what can only be perceived as angry, and bitter (the way you left, the NC, the texts yesterday). You even call it "fighting back".

We could argue that there is only a 50% chance (or 20%) that she will become cordial with you (she did with her other exs) - but if you're are putting up an angry and bitter front - its 0% chance.

No matter how justified - moving out the way that you did, and responding the way you have is not consistent with leaving the door open for fence mending. I think it will feel better to you if you can balance the hopes and the fears and rise out of stage 4. It takes a lot of mental energy to be out of balance like this.

I'm not suggesting you reach out (or not reach out), I am saying that it will help to get out of stage 4 and it will help to align what you want with how you act.  It doesn't make sense to want her to open up while you are shutting her down. Pick one.

Karpmen triangleThe other learned behavior is a Karpmen triangle victim. We can get into a mindset that we are helpless and take on a not-so-great way of dealing with things. We gravitate to what Karpman calls the ulterior game. Fjedstadt explains this well in her book, Stop CareTaking the Borderline or Narcissist.  We have a good article here too.

If you look at how things escalated yesterday, step by step (post by post) its follows a classic a Karpman pattern and it ends here:

(https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/karpman_triangle.png)

From Karpman

The victim  sincerely feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in... .

From you (yesterday)


I know you love her.  I know that this was a huge loss.  I know it seems senseless and irrational.  I know it really did a number on you.

I think this is all too deep. In my opinion.


She asks a question and I answer it. She asks another question and I answer it. She takes a "shot" at me and I don't respond.

Am I supposed to, excuse how I put this, kiss her butt so that she can possibly shoot me down with some more lousy comments or remarks?

Yeah, this is the woman that I loved for 4+ years. But it's also the woman that told me to take a bus when I couldn't walk, the woman that sleeps in a real bed while I sleep on a blow up mattress. The woman that helped turn me into a pile of goo.

I may feel that I want her back at times. Sometimes McDonalds sounds good until it's in our face too.  I am not going to turn around and go back now. Not after all I've been thru.  I'm sure that a lot of people go thru this exact same thing, but maybe I just talk about it more, maybe I'm more in the limelight because I choose to post.  No one is gonna guarantee me a good response from her. Period. I'm just trying to get over this stuff and I don't wanna become a therapist like I said earlier. I've never had any problems in the prior years of my life, none like this.  I know a BPD relationship is tougher to get over, but, tell me, what the heck happened in this post!  I just needed advice about what to write back, and the consensus was fairly unanimous about what I wrote.  

In a sense, my responses to this post are kinda similar to my response to my ex. I kept it simple in the email. But I got into depth with this post and it kinda went, I don't know where!  All the advice is appreciated as well as the technical theory, but I think I need two aleve now.

DyingLove, you may not be in a space to hear what Skip is saying to you right now - and that's okay. I went through (and through and through) many stages of anger, feeling like a solid block of pain, feeling the need to self-protect, feeling heart-rending sadness, etc. - so I understand.

However, when you're in a better, clearer space, go back and re-read what he's trying to share with you - they're very wise words, and will help with your healing.