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This just occurred to me... .if pwBPD fear engulfment and will go to great lengths to push the non away to avoid it, why would they ever agree to marriage?

This strikes me as odd, given that the non would clearly have expressed his/her love and deep commitment. Wouldn't the engagement alone be enough to trigger the engulfment fear/loss of self in the pwBPD?  I have read many times how even the act of moving in together can trigger rages and a Jekyl/Hyde dynamic.  

Perhaps there is a stronger force at play that overrides this fear - namely desperate fear of being alone?  If so, then one might imagine that this fear would develop only after a string of failed r/ss and be most acute in older pwBPD, who presumably struggle with their own mortality like all of us do.

I ask to shed some light on my own situation.

Thank you in advance.

Hey,

I have some personal theories on this, but have read some books on BPD as well. I can probably best give my opinion based on my personal experience. I was never married to a pwBPD. I was with my BPDex for 2.5 years. During this time, around a year or so in, we discussed the idea of marriage. She seemed receptive to it. Into year two we were using the word marriage more and more often, and the idea was becoming more of a reality. One day she told me that she told her mother that I am a "factor" in her plans.

Since we were both grad students, we tacitly agreed that once we graduate we would become engaged. No one ever proposed over the course of the relationship since it ended before we could both graduate. In any case, looking back on the topic of marriage and how it played into this relationship I think she really enjoyed the idea of having someone around. Around in the sense that marriage would presumably tie me to her more permanently, thus abating fears of abandonment.

And yet, she always said that from her previous relationships she never wanted to get married. I was her longest relationship for sure, so maybe that was a factor. The thing is that the longer we were together, the worse things became. It was like the inverse of what a "normal" relationship should be like - trust is built over time. With my BPDex, it felt that trust was eroded over time. We had reached some apex and then it slipped away. We both voiced this observation. But hearing the words "you are the love of my life" and knowing that we had spoken about marriage made things painful and difficult. I don't know if it was used to manipulate me from leaving. I'm guessing probably to some extent. I think we both idealized the notion and it was comforting to us both that we would someday just do it. And I think we would have, had I not finally stopped being in denial about how much in pain I was.

Hi Search

My ex has had multiple relationships, but has only made it up the aisle on one occasion. I've often pondered why that was, and here is my theory. She had a strong attraction to him as he sounds NPD from the various accounts I've heard. At that time of her life, she believed a husband, big house and 2 kids would make her happy and all her anxieties would disappear i.e. he objectified the things she felt would make her complete and this overrode any engulfment fears. Since she left him no-one else has offered anything she can really buy into that would override her natural engulfment fears as she knows that none of the aforementioned things succeeded in making her complete. She hates her current job, so a new bf offering a fiscal solution to that issue could make marriage a viable option again.

Fanny

I would guess fear of abandonment, it offers the illusion of security and commitment that I suppose pwBPD yearns for.

My pwBPD actually brought up getting married first and everything was going well. Once we got engaged however, that's when the fear of engulfment took over the relationship.

I would guess that it is something that mainly occurs during the idealization phase. Further rumination and poor coping mechanisms lead to devaluation afterwards.

engagement is the trophy of success of the lovebombing/honeymoon phase... .

marriage, like many of their actions, is an impulsive, desperate decision

Agree?  Mine basically wouldn't stop talking about getting married and asked me constantly... .I said how bout we try not arguing for a week and we will talk about it LOL... .she would look at me bewildered and needless to say she could never stop... .she even was planning our wedding a week before she kicked me out and threatned to file false abuse claims on me... .im guessing she asked alot of people to marry her but only one sucker so far agreed.

Exactly the same situation as I had. I was her longest relationship and she kept saying that she never wanted to marry any of her ex boyfriends. She kept saying that I am the love of her life, something that is given just once in a lifetime. We married. But just some weeks after she were saying how wonderful our marriage will grow stronger more and more she just decided to leave. We married in the autumn. When she was leaving she told me she lost her interest,feelings towards me in June (we had some conflict when I told her that I will buy a ticket back to my hometown, I think that triggered a lot of things, she understood that it is not so stable to be with me, that I can leave, and it was not smart from me, but I didn't know a lot about BPD back then). So in June she told she lost her feelings. But we married in the Fall. When I asked her how that happened? I was asking her a lot of times - are you seriously wanting to be with me all your life, she kept saying that I am the love of her life. As I said, later she said she lost her feelings some time prior to the wedding. I asked her - but why you married me then? She replied - I wanted experiment, I wanted to know how it is to be married.

Bare in mind that there is honeymoon phase and the reason why a lot of us are so crushed after BPD is because they are very intense in the beginning, we feel that no one ever loved us so much. But then you are falling in their eyes.

I think BPD are just like adult women with emotional maturity and mindset of a small girl. Like kids are playing doctors and husband and wife, they don't understand how serious it is, so BPD are acting similar - they don't see that marriage is not just fun experiment, it is promise to other person and also it makes your life path go in a different way.

My ex left me some time ago, I was blaming myself, then I was trying to advocate myself in my eyes, then again blaming and even more blaming but recently I just realized that I must be happy that we didn't have kids with her, we can easily divorce and never ever meet or see each other (she flew back to her homecountry). After she flew back, she tried to make a suicide. She was blaming me, her job here in this country and city and everything - she tried to think it is the reason why she feels bad. But once she departed this land, we didn't contact and she still felt bad, I think that triggered her, she exploded, her reasons why she feels bad are inside her.

Before she left, she created online dating profile in front of me and told me that she wants to meet new guys when she will be back home in her country. I acted without any jealousy, I told her that I hope she is doing the best for her. I am just laughing now about one line in her dating profile - I want to find the right person. There is no right person for BPD, you are the right and only one for some time and then it disappears. She also states that she don't want dating, just to know new people and she will not go for casuals etc, she will engage into something only if she will feel it is the right person. Be happy that BPD left you and never look back!

I think they agree to marry for the same reasons the rest of us do---love, security, intimacy, etc. It's only when the emotional intimacy becomes a proximity issue (the pwBPD is in constant contact with the intimate partner) that the engulfment issue kicks in. By moving in together, whether married or not, the physical barrier is now removed. Now, to relieve the engulfment problem, a pwBPD must generate distance artificially. This is one of the saddest facets of the disorder, they desperately want what their disorder will never allow them to have.

Thank you for the insightful feedback.

I get the sense that those who do marry, tend to do so impulsively, during the honeymoon phase of the r/s, and/or very early in the r/s.  This makes sense given that the engulfment fears seem to take more time to develop.

In any case, my own belief is that their primary motivations are security, support, and stability... .not so sure about intimacy, unless they are motivated by the promise of it, since true intimacy is not available to them.

Like so much else with this disorder, it's everything and nothing.

It's deeply felt, and also a game. Very desperate, yet also loving.

A hook used to grab a life preserver that was and could have been.

A way to bring the other person to their level. For good and bad.

The key so they can be free until they feel again that they're trapped.

But mostly just a dream as they don't really seem to live it well.

Thank you for asking this question. It strikes me as odd as well. It seems to contradict so much.

I just found out my ex got married 10 months after our very serious and committed relationship.  Was it because after 44 years he found the one so quickly and suddenly? 

Someone mentioned they probably can go through with it during the honeymoon period, while still idealizing, and that is exactly what my therapist said about my ex getting married.

I am wondering if he moved on so quickly and completely in an effort to not experience the pain of our relationship ending.  We were headed towards marriage and I think that triggered engulfment.  So how did he bypass those fears the next go around?  I think maybe doing it during the honeymoon phase bypasses what they know will come if they wait.  Just my opinion. 

I agree with the first half completely as a pwBPD feels extremely strong emotions. As such I doubt they ever think about future consequences. They're usually swept off their feet by emotions only to have that swept aside by another (engulfment fears for one). He probably believes this marriage is truly going to be 'the one' but we all know what's going to happen after the honeymoon phase is over.

He might try to recycle with you at that point so be wary!

Mine used to go around telling everyone how she never wants to get married and how she hates kids and never wants to have them.

Fast forward a few months, and I receive a text that says, "I thought about you a lot today.  I pictured you proposing to me.  I pictured you pregnant with our child.  I pictured us adopting a kitten."  This was while she was still in a relationship with someone else and had probably said the same things to him.

Now, she's getting ready to move across the country with her boyfriend, and he's on Facebook talking about how she's wife material.  I told my mom this, and her reply was, "Yeah, well, they haven't actually moved yet."   lol

This guy is absolutely bonkers for her and has put up with a lot more than I ever had to, so maybe it will actually work out.  Her fear of engulfment first showed up the night before she moved in with him back in April, less than three months into their relationship.  I can only imagine what moving 3,000 miles away with him will do.  She says she's going to get treatment and that she wants to be a better person, but that doesn't happen overnight.  I definitely wouldn't want to be in his position: 3,000 miles from home, no family or friends to lean on, a brand new job, and a BPD girlfriend.   

Hmmm Neveragain... I get what you are saying about not thinking into the future and I agree. i doubt he was thinking this will crash and burn. I appreciate being reminded that it WILL happen with my replacement because I am doubting that and it hurts. 

Also, you are the second person who mentioned he may come back (yikes)! There was a time, before knowing he had moved on so quickly, i was so jealous  of those who heard from the ex's again.  Now I would Never want that!