Print Page - Unravelling already (1)

Today was her first official day of work. This morning, the complaint was that she has no nice clothes or shoes to wear. She went through outfit after outfit. Bear in mind, in two years I have seen her buy and get rid of more clothes than I have owned in my whole life. She kept making comments about her looking like a "homeless person" and blaming things on me. I told her that if she does not like her clothes, to go out and buy new clothes. She said that she has no money (not true). I reminded her that the clothes are for her job, and the job brings her money. She turned it around, that it's not worth having a job if she needs to buy clothes for the job. In other words, she can't work because she has no clothes because she has no money.

Then her issue was that she had no time to make lunch. And then how she was going to carry all her stuff from her car into the building... .

I know it's just nervousness - but her reaction to the nervousness was certainly extreme.

My goal is to stay out of the way as much as possible.

Max, you and I should make a pact to just not react to our partners negativity! My parents still grumble to each other over things, which I always found cute, but the degree of negativity I put up with daily is on a whole other level. Plus, my folks, married 60 some years, didn't always think negatively of EACH OTHER! They are still each others' best friend. I often wonder how I ended up in this situation when I was raised in such a loving, healthy marriage.

When you say you are going to quit responding to the negativity, what do you mean by that? No response at all, or short answers, and change of subject? I usually try to validate, or empathize, but I wonder if that just earns me hearing more of his negativity?

Quote from: waverider on July 30, 2015, 06:03:46 AM

She complains, you try to suggest a logical fix, that provides a spring board for her to dive into all the reasons why her lot is so bad.

These are her issues don't try to suggest a fix. Put away the springboard, there will be less ripples.

Logic man always tries to be a life saver for someone who revels in drowning. Logic man gets exhausted as he can't see that the logical thing is to stop diving in and trying to pull someone out of their comfort zone

Wow! Thanks, waverider! This is a tidy explanation of why my life has been so chaotic living with several pwBPD, starting with my mother. Somehow I got the idea that I was supposed to be of service to the people I love and that meant when they complained, trying to assist them to find a solution to their problems. I guess this would be OK if they didn't have BPD (and if it were reciprocal--though I typically don't complain and when I do, it's because I want someone's advice or help, which I accept gratefully).

Max, my husband is very, very negative so I know how awful it is to deal with the constant complaints. I've been doing it for 33 years. His negativity is one of the primary reasons I have detached from him and keep my contact with him to a minimum. I just can't take it.

I get the impression that your wife's negativity is a very big issue for you. For your own sanitiY, you do need a different strategy for dealing with it.

On another note, I am so surprised teachers are returning to work on July 29. Wow, that is really early. When do the students return?

I agree with FF that if you tell your wife you will not engage in her constant complaining, she will likely explode. But she could explode at any time anyway. When I stopped asking my husband why he was so angry all the time and started shutting down in the face of his incessant b___ing and moaning, his reaction was to talk less. I doubt this will be the case for your wife though.

Yesterday, there was a brief few moments where I honestly questioned whether I was dying. I think this was triggered by me stepping on the scale this morning and despite my best efforts, I had not regained any of the weight that I had lost over the past few months. And then I thought about it, and losing 30 pounds in less than a year is quite a bit for someone who is trying to lose weight, let alone someone who isn't.

My worry was not so much that I have some kind of cancer or disease, but that it is just stress that is behind all of it. But I do have a small worry that there is something else going on.

My self image is really low these days. I feel sickly, defective, and inadequate. I think that is from a few years of having my boundaries trampled. I don't feel like sex, not just with my wife, but just not sexual at all. The new part time job is helping me feel better about myself. So is the group therapy. But all in all, I just feel low.

W stared in on me last night right before bed about how she is ovulating next week This after freaking out about her job and money earlier in the day, after freaking out about my health the night before, and despite that we haven't even had sex in two months or more. So I interpret things like this "Life sucks, I hate everything and everyone, I don't want to work, we have no money, you aren't a good husband, you do everything wrong, let's try to make a baby next week."

So, I replied honestly by saying that I have serious concerns about my own health, that I sometimes feel like I am dying, and that I don't feel sexual right now. And her reaction went from lecturing me about being strong and not telling myself I am dying, to eventually crying hysterically.

FF-

I went to the dr last month because of ringing in my ears. The dr. referred me to an ENT specialist, but also at that time I realized that I had lost 30 lbs probably in the last 6 months. I felt alarmed by that. I left just assuming that the ringing had to do with my wife's screaming, and the weight loss had to do with stress and depression. So, I have tried making an effort to re-gain weight and avoid loud noises. The ENT specialist sent me for a blood test, a hearing test, and an MRI. The hearing test said my hearing was normal for a man my age, but have not yet heard the results of the blood test or MRI.

In the mean time, and acquaintance of mine was having inner ear problems and dizziness, and went to the dr who eventually did an MRI and found a brain tumor. He had surgery, and died in the operating room. He was not much older than me. I think that scared me a bit.

Yesterday morning, I stepped on the scale to learn that I have not regained any weight. I think that freaked me out a little. I know that unexplained weight loss can be the first symptom of many illnesses. But it can also be due to stress or depression, both of which I am experiencing now.

I also was in my Ps office the other day, and discussing my hearing problems and if they could be related to the ADHD medicine I am taking. He said it is possible, but I am on a really low dose. He asked if I had these problems prior to medication, and I said yes, but now they seem worse. He suggested that perhaps the medicine is making me pay more attention to annoying things. I told him it was not unbearable, so I did not want to make any changes to meds until my other test results came back. He also asked if I had ever been diagnosed as autistic, and that sensitivity to hearing is a symptom of autism. I told him "no", and he said that autism is a spectrum disorder, and it is possible that I may be a very high functioning autistic person, but that at age 39, such a diagnosis would be meaningless so it's not really even worth discussing.

My son has adhd. Anxiety issues, also.

He began treatment for the ADHD, taking Adderall.

He is about 6 feet tall and was 245 pounds when he began the meds. Over the course of a year, he lost about 70 pounds. Literally his arms looked like sticks.

I was reading an article about Lindsey Lohan. She had been on Adderall for years. The article said that it was common for people who don't need the meds in Hollywood to take it in order to kill their appetites.

Even if you are on a low dose, your body chemistry may be highly sensitive. It could be effecting you.

I'm not trying to invalidate your experiences with your wife just share my experience with the adhd and the meds.

Max, I hope you get some answers soon on your health issues. I know this is adding to your stress.

Since your wife is still determined to get pregnant, could you put an end to this topic by just speaking the truth as you have here?

Something like "Wife, since you hate everyone and everything, think I am the cause of your problems, believe I have a neurological disorder, feel we have no money, don't want to work, have recently attempted suicide, and have been violent and removed from our home, do you think having a baby is a good idea"?

While it may be true that your heath concerns are an issue for you not wanting to have a baby (and those issues are likely the result of living with her chaos ) the real issues are her mental illness and the behavior resulting from that. This is the truth and she should hear it in my opinion.

Max,

what was your starting... and ending weight? Height?

I'm 6 foot 2. Righ now I'm stuck at 240lbs. I would like to get down to 220 or so. I topped out in the 260 to 270 range. I'm 45 years old... metabolism has slowed waaaay down.

I'm a big frame guy (football lineman in high school)

Most people are shocked when I tell them how much I weigh... .I guess it's proportioned.

Anyway... .I'm trying to put this in context.

I know the reason I 'm not loosing... .I've ease up on being disciplined about eating... but I am still walking and doing light exercises pretty well.

My guess is that you should do nothing until MRI results... .and look at other results.

If it's been a while... .several years... .since a full workup with a GP... .just about every lab you can think of... etc etc... .

might be good idea.

Any family health history issues (colon cancer... that kind of thing?)

I say that because I had buddy with family history. He pestered the flight surgeon to get a colonoscopy when he was in his 30s... .flight surgeon laughed at him... .so did we. Anyway... .he finally got one and found a very small cancer.

That was the first of our group (naval aviators from same class) to fight cancer... .he caught it early... .and won.

Getting older is fun... .huh?

FF

Max, maybe I was a bit harsh earlier. I just felt like your response to your wife when she made the ovulation comment was a major walking on eggshells, something we are not supposed to do with our BPD loved ones--not that I haven't done it myself.

I get that you are not up to dealing with a big dysregulation right now, and I get that your wife's extreme BPD would almost certainly guarantee one if you were to say to her what I suggested.

Sometimes I do feel, though, that we nons needs to speak the truth, especially when serious issues (like making a baby) are at issue. It's not up to us if the pwBPD chooses to accept the truth. It's still true.

Maybe a kinder, gentler version would go something like this:

"Wife, I understand that you want us to have a baby. Do you have any concerns around this happening? I am asking you this because of your comments about how you see me as a husband, our finances, your unhappiness with your life, etc. "

This puts the ball back in her court. If she has a meltdown over being asked these questions, could she then not MAYBE see your point? She has to know she is far too unstable to be a mother.

Quote from: KateCat on August 02, 2015, 04:32:14 PM

max,

Remember last year?

Your wife yelled at some children. Parents became involved. School directed another teacher to mentor your wife. Contention between your wife and the mentor ensued. Your wife was put on administrative leave. Then terminated.

How about not helping her at this stage and instead letting her flame out before children are involved?

Any of us who've been teachers can just see the storm gathering, I think.

My thoughts exactly. It is tough on kids to start the year with a teacher and then get a new one early on. It would be better for them if your wife isn't there when school starts. There is no indication she could possibly make it even for the first six-weeks. I know that sounds terrible to say, but it's just the reality.

Verbena - I understand completely. She's already talking about how she thinks the other teachers don't like her, how much stress she is under, and how much work she has to do. I see a more positive attitude this time, but then again, I've been fooled before. Several times. And you are spot on - the sad reality is, she's had 7 jobs in the 2.5 years I have known her. 2 she never started, 1 she quit before the end of the first week, 4 she never finished out her contract. Realistically, the same will happen again. I see where she has made no significant changes that will ensure success this time. The only differences are that this job is closer to home, we are married now, and she does have a regular T that she has been seeing for awhile. But none of that is really drastic change from the way things were before. Her coping mechanisms are no different.

The only differences are that this job is closer to home, we are married now, and she does have a regular T that she has been seeing for awhile.

Of those three factors that are different, two have made no difference in her behavior at all. Being closer to home could reduce her stress, but she's already getting so wound up that I don't see it making that much difference.

I know you wish she could get and keep a job. She just seems so determined to continue on the same path of destruction. I'm glad you walked out on helping her with her classroom. You do everything you can for her, and she just can't/won't stop herself from treating you like her worst enemy.

You deserve better than this.

Quote from: Verbena on August 02, 2015, 11:51:04 PM

The only differences are that this job is closer to home, we are married now, and she does have a regular T that she has been seeing for awhile.

These things may make your wife more dangerous to herself and others.

Don't these things make it harder for her to see herself as a victim now? Don't they make it harder for others to see her as a victim? And doesn't she need to be seen as a victim to remain in her own particular comfort zone?

It's since you two married that your wife has battered you to the point of injury and openly declared that she wanted to kill you.

Can you take additional personal precautions these next few weeks to ensure your safety?

Sorry to keep harping on this "teacher" theme, but I think it's the element that will ignite the fuse this time.

Max, some elements are coming together that point toward your situation becoming very dangerous.

One, your wife is moving toward another disaster with another job. She's already talking of other teachers not liking her and too much work. If (or more likely WHEN) she quits or is fired, it is going to be your fault.

Two, she is ovulating this week and you've put her off again with making a baby. This has always been your fault.

Three, you are waiting for MRI results. It's not that your wife will be upset and concerned for you if the test results show a problem. She will be upset because it's not about HER.

You can't do anything about her job situation. I would distance myself completely from this one. No more helping her with anything, even at home. It will just blow up in your face if you do.

As far as her getting pregnant, nothing you can say other than "sure, let's get right on that" is what she wants to hear. And you know that would be a terrible idea.

If the MRI results do show a problem, I would not even tell her. You won't get sympathy or support because she's not capable of it, and telling her something could be wrong could be the trigger for another violent episode.

The more time that passes with her not recognizing she is seriously ill and not being accountable for her behavior, the more failures and frustrations she faces, the closer she moves to the point of no return. I know you realize she is very sick, but I'm not sure you have faced the very real possibility that your wife could kill you.

She has said you make her "feel violent." She has physically assaulted you and never apologized for it or expressed remorse for it. In fact, she has rewritten history and said she didn't hit you this last time at all, but only sat on you, and you calling the police was a form of control over her. She has SAID she wants to kill you. How many more red flags do you need?

Prepare for the worst in the coming days. Keep your phone and keys close by, let someone know things could get bad and that you will need to stay with them, don't turn your back on her, lock yourself in the other room again if you sense any meltdown coming.

That Order of Protection you have could be what saves you.

Thanks verbena :) Sometimes I need reminders of how bad it has been and could be again.

I feel better about handling this than I did a few months ago. I credit people on this site, the group therapy, and Alanon. Yes, this has the makings of a bad week. Last night, she was feeling anxious, this morning, the same. I was able to communicate with her about it, rather than just ignore it, by asking her what it felt like, asking her if she could rationalize why, validating that we all feel anxious when starting a new job, and asking her about what the anxiety does to her. I also challenged her to postulate the worst that could happen.

Yes, this is a very pivotal week. But, I think it could be pivotal both directions, and I need not be scared of the potential dysregulation. It could be where she becomes completely unglued and blames me, or it could be the week where she finally recognizes she needs a different kind of help from her P or T. I think I have an opportunity this week to direct her towards her professional support system rather than me. We'll see how it goes.

Max, several of us are very concerned about your safety. It appears that you are minimizing these issues, which I understand, as a former victim of abuse. To have to be on guard constantly with the person who is supposed to love us is not a comfortable place.

However, based upon your wife's lack of remorse, rewriting of history and current stress level, I think you need to be very watchful for her spiraling out of control.

If she loses this job, she doesn't seem like she has much to live for, other than the pipe dream of having a baby.

As they say in the investment market, "Past performance does not guarantee future results," but in the betting market, your wife's previous behavior is a strong indicator that she is likely to respond that way in the future. Please have your safety plan in mind at all times.

Max, I am going to make one final suggestion for your safety and then I'll shut up. YOu may think I'm crazy and maybe everyone else here will too, but here goes.

I think you need to buy a taser. Keep it in your pants pocket at all times when you are home alone with your wife. At night, if you are sleeping in the same room with her, put it under the mattress. Take it out again in the morning and put back in your pants pocket. If you are sleeping in the other room with the door locked for your protection as you have done in the past, keep it close by.

Hopefully you will never have to use it, but what if you need it? What if you had had one the last time she hit you in the head with her phone? What if the next time she grabs a knife from the drawer and comes at you with it? You are living with a person you know to be violent and on a downward spiral. If I were in your shoes, I would want to protect myself as best I could.

Verbena - I don't think you are crazy at all for suggesting that. Actually, when I logically sit down and evaluate my situation, I sometimes wonder how many more red flags are even possible. Personally, I don't fee; wife is capable of serious bodily harm, but given what I have witnessed, I certainly need to consider that a possibility.

Kate - my wife's mother killed herself by smoking herself to death. COPD. I think her mom eventually alienated herself from everyone, including her own daughters, could not keep a job, wound up homeless and living in a shelter, and one day just stopped breathing.

Hi Max,

Quote from: maxsterling on August 03, 2015, 02:18:11 PM

Verbena - I don't think you are crazy at all for suggesting that. Actually, when I logically sit down and evaluate my situation, I sometimes wonder how many more red flags are even possible.

In my opinion, if I'm even considering something along the lines of a taser or pepper spray in order to protect myself from my partner (or a live-in, be it whomever), perhaps it's already gotten to the point that we shouldn't be living together.

What do you think, Max? Under what circumstances would you be willing to use something like this? And then what? What if she were to use a taser or pepper spray on you?

Max, I promise I'm not trying to be difficult here. You say you don't think your wife is capable of serious bodily harm? She's proven to you time and again she is not afraid to physically attack you. You were bruised and had pain from it. That's not serious?

Ok, so she didn't put you in the hospital, but she certainly could the next time. Or she could kill you. You've said you don't keep guns in the house. There are knives in the kitchen? A hammer in the garage? A metal nail file in the bathroom?

To say you don't THINK she's capable but need to consider the possibility

that she IS capable seems contradictory to me. Either she is or she isn't. I realize you can't know exactly what could happen. That's why I suggested what I did.

Please watch your back and keep us posted.

I was in denial that my first husband could have killed me during one of his dysregulations. Like you, Max, I was only left black and blue and once with a black eye, which he didn't intend to inflict but did accidentally. He preferred that my damages weren't visible to the public.

I think about the times he knocked me to the floor and punched me in the stomach. Even though he may have intended to inflict minor damage, he could have killed me on several occasions. He attacked me in the bathroom, where I could have hit my head on the counter or the tub as I fell to the floor. He could have broken a rib when he punched me, which could have punctured a lung. When he grabbed me by the throat, he could have strangled me if he had held on longer.

You have been hit by your wife more than once. She has denied hitting you and has never acknowledged her role nor apologized.

It could very well happen again. I'm sorry to harp on this, but you really seem to be in denial that anything bad could happen. I hope that's true, but given your wife's history, it seems likely that she might physically assault you again and I hope you're not caught unaware.

Quote from: maxsterling on August 03, 2015, 02:18:11 PM

It probably needs to be mentioned that if you taser your wife you will likely make the 6 o'clock news and the DA will incarcerate you and the neighborhood kids will be warned to stay away from you. Any weapon you purchase and use in a domestic conflict will seen as a premeditated assault.

bpdfamily.com does not recommend this. The legal penalties are high. The possibility the weapons will be used on you are high. The possibility that the other party will escalate are high.

Max', if you think there is a reasonable possibility of serious bodily harm, you have to plan your permanent departure.

The idea of a safety plan is deescalate reason but escalated tensions or escape them if that fails. Once your domestic situation moves beyond the control of a safety plan, what do you have left?

If you wife starts to escalate, how to you defuse the situation? What are the signs that you that you are not in a situation that can be defused and how do you do next?

This needs to be clear and drilled. You don't want to wait until emotions rise.

How to you defuse the situation?

What are the signs that you that you are not in a situation that can be defused?

What do you do next?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPRv0hXOVC0

Quote from: Skip on August 03, 2015, 03:42:25 PM

Max', if you think there is a reasonable possibility of serious bodily harm, you have to plan your permanent departure.

The idea of a safety plan is deescalate reason but escalated tensions or escape them if that fails. Once your domestic situation moves beyond the control of a safety plan, what do you have left?

If you wife starts to escalate, how to you defuse the situation? What are the signs that you that you are not in a situation that can be defused and how do you do next?

This needs to be clear and drilled. You don't want to wait until emotions rise.

How to you defuse the situation?

What are the signs that you that you are not in a situation that can be defused?

What do you do next?

We nons take on so much responsibility and we often feel strong enough to cope with anything.

Those who have never experienced domestic violence often wonder why we would continue to endure such a thing or put ourselves in a position where it could happen.

But we think we are able to deal with whatever will happen. What we don't know is how we will react when our survival is at stake and that primitive part of the brain takes over our executive function.

Although I had taken self defense and martial arts classes, I never fought back when my first husband physically attacked me. But the last time he did, something in me snapped and I slept with a knife in my hand. I was ready to defend myself to the death if he came at me in my sleep. That marked the end of my marriage and I could not think of myself as a passive individual any longer. I thank my lucky stars that I didn't have to use that knife and end up on the six o'clock news.

So, please be alert for danger and keep yourself safe. Even if you try to deflect a blow, you could potentially injure your wife and law enforcement tends to side with women.

As a non in a relationship we can over estimate own level of control in stressful situations. This is because our measure of control is bench marked against a pwBPD.

We may be better at retaining control, but that is still only relative. Things can escalate very quickly to a level were our own animal reactions overtake our normal centered state.

Simply pushing someone away who is intent on attacking you can cause a serious accident as adrenaline causes us to push too hard so they fall and hit their head. It happens before you have time to thing.

Repeated assaults can actually escalate quicker as it becomes established as a "go to' action for an abusive person. Hence our ability to nip them in the bud diminishes. Add to this our tolerance to them can cause us to snap quicker.

Last night she said she had so much anxiety. She asked me what she should do. I did my best to step away from answering that. The anxiety was over the same old things - job starting, what to wear, what to eat, etc. She got frustrated and short over laundry. I asked her how the anxiety feels to her, and how it affects her body. She said she tenses up all over and feels like rage. She said she felt like she had too much to do and thought about cancelling P and T. I suggested that those are two people that can help with anxiety, so she should put those at top priority.

This morning was more of the same. Extreme anxiety, did not want to get out of bed, extra needy, didn't feel like doing anything. I validated and said that all people have anxiety when starting a new job. She said hers must be worse than most people's, and asked if I thought there was something wrong with her.

And just now she called, said her day went okay, and that she still feels really anxious, and that she cancelled P tomorrow so that she has more free time. Considering while she was away she was taking her friend's Xanax and narcotics, I am very worried about her cancelling P.

Well, someone predicted it. Last night I wound up helping her with her classroom, mainly because I promised I would a few days ago. I didn't want to back out of a promise. I went with tons of anxiety that she may potentially be critical and blaming again. It went better this time, but not perfect. Afterwards, I was just tired. She complained of being tired and stressed and full of anxiety.

I awoke late to her touching me in a sexual way. Yes, I felt sexually violated, and definitely not in the mood for sex. Half asleep, I told her I was not in the mood and had to get ready for work. Explosion. I wound up enforcing boundaries when the conversation quickly became her screaming and refusing to let me talk. I took a shower, with the door locked. While in the shower, she banged and kicked on the door, I could hear her screaming and throwing things in the bedroom.

When I came out of the shower, I quickly went to put clothes on and leave. She tried to grab at me, insisting that I stay and talk to her. I requested that she not touch me. She then completely broke down, begging me not to leave. I stood firm on boundaries and in not tolerating abuse, accusations, blame. She wound up calming some, and I wound up seeing her off to work.

I agree that you have every right to be afraid of your wife attacking you physically, but I think if you had real fear of her, you'd leave. None of us know the situation as well as Max does. My BPDh has gotten physical in the past, he also showed little remorse later(at the time he did), and later he rewrote history about it. He even sort of wants to blame me. I think he can't, or won't face what he did. Seems like typical BPD to me. He's had moments of clarity, but they are brief, and he seems to not remember them later.

This is a mental illness, and I feel compassion for that. We have to put ourselves first, but if we choose to stay, we certainly need support more than anything. It's a hard choice to stay or leave.

Kate - what children do you mean, her students? My feeling on that right now is that there is no way I can keep her behavior from impacting her students. That's beyond my control. About all I can do is trust a higher power and her co-workers and superiors for that.

One more thing from last night. She knows I spent all day at work, then my evening helping her, plus last weekend working a second job. It was around 8PM when we got home yesterday, we had leftovers for dinner, decided to watch TV and eat blueberries and whipped cream for dessert. She got out the cream and started to make the whipped cream, following a recipe she has made recently. She started mixing it, and it didn't cream up. Turns out she did not follow the recipe exactly. Of course, it was my fault, because I should have read the recipe and told her she was doing it wrong. She broke down, stormed out of the kitchen, said she felt very depressed, and felt like she "wanted to d... ." She caught herself and didn't complete her thought. I asked her what she meant and she said "nevermind". Then she talked about how stressed out she was, how depressed, how lonely, etc... .

Quote from: maxsterling on August 04, 2015, 11:56:49 AM

I guess I'm wondering whether any of your wife's doctors could be informed of what seems to be a crisis state your wife is in, and that she is set to begin classroom teaching next week.

Max, I was one who predicted that if your wife wants a baby, she could seduce you when you are asleep. You are a man, and the equipment can work, even if you are half asleep and not fully aware. I was one who stated that if you do not wish to be a father at the moment, that you need to consider this possibility and protect yourself. I think she is also capable of putting pin holes in your condoms.

Many people have posted their concerns for your well being. I don't want this to come off as a "beware of Ms Sterling" rally. Your posts are sometimes emotional for me to read because in many ways, your relationship reminds me of my parents. I do not think of my mother as a terrible person, but a person who is mentally ill. At times I felt my father was in danger, but no matter what I said, this did not register with him. Either he didn't believe me, or I was wrong, or it didn't matter to him as he chose her comfort ( I say comfort, not always her better good- because enabling doesn't work that way) over everything else.

He chose appeasement instead of facing his and her potential discomfort when upholding boundaries. I recognize this pattern because it is something I did as well, and am working on.

My father could not stand to see my mother upset. Because of this, if she basically wanted something, she got it. If he said no, she persisted in doing whatever it took to get it. My father's role in this is that, even if he said "no", he didn't uphold that boundary. Mom knew she could persist, and would even say " if you don't do this, I will cause a scene"- and those scenes were every bit as difficult as your wife's.

Reading your wedding threads, and your wife's wish to have a baby reminds me of how persistence and disregulation works for my mother. Some of the events during your wedding reminded me of when she was involved in mine. Well, Dad paid for it, which meant it was "her" wedding or else.

I don't know if your wife is a danger to you or not at this time, but what I do think is that, unless you can enforce boundaries now- whatever they are, it will only get harder to do so in the future, for every time you give in to something you are not on board about, you teach her that your boundaries don't mean anything, and also tell yourself that you are not worth standing up for... .

My father could not stand to see my mother upset. Because of this, if she basically wanted something, she got it. If he said no, she persisted in doing whatever it took to get it. My father's role in this is that, even if he said "no", he didn't uphold that boundary. Mom knew she could persist, and would even say " if you don't do this, I will cause a scene"- and those scenes were every bit as difficult as your wife's.

We've all seen toddlers throw fits in public and parent give in just to shut them up and avoid embarrassment. Upholding boundaries with pwBPD is a lot like that. If throwing a fit works for them, they will keep doing it.

Max, she treated you awful when you helped her with her classroom a few days ago, but because you promised you would help her again---and didn't want her to say you broke your promise and potentially throw a fit about it--you agreed to do it again. She treated you a little better the second time because she had some idea that she was pushing your boundaries, but she still go this message: "I can act awful to Max and he will away from me, but it's only temporary. If I play my cards right I can still get him to do what I want."

Verbena, you've got it. To not vilify my mother, ( or Max's wife,) she is a beautiful vivacious woman with the emotional maturity of a toddler. However, a toddler who always gets his or her way will become a behavioral nightmare. Toddlers will try this- it is absolutely normal for them to do this- but parents know that they need to address this kind of behavior right away and not let it get out of hand. They even know when and who to push the boundaries in, such as in public, where parents may not want to deal with a scene but at home parents would let them tantrum.

Now consider this in an adult with the autonomy of an adult in a relationship where this pattern works for them for years. I know that I was not able to understand this until I was much older and a parent myself. I also realized I was creating a similar situation in my own relationship as this is the role model I had. I knew I didn't want to be like mom, but I didn't understand why it wasn't good to be like Dad either. He looked like the "good guy"- and he really was a wonderful man.

Could my mother have matured? Perhaps, if she was allowed to learn to deal with her discomfort, and learn how to handle frustration. However, giving in to her when she got upset didn't give her the opportunity to learn this. I wanted my relationship to be different, and so the first task for me was learning how to say no when I meant no, and being able to withstand others not being happy with me at that moment. That was ( and still is) not easy for me, but I see how important it is.

It is hard to know the distinction between being a genuinely good guy and an enabler. Parents need to learn when it isn't in their children's best interest to give them what they want, even if it isn't easy to see their child angry and upset. As adults, we expect other adults to have gotten past this toddler stage, but some have not, even if they appear to be grown ups physically. Then, we have to address the behavior as it is.

My improved ability to hold on to my boundaries has led to a better relationship with both my mom and my H, as well as others.

BPDFamily.com

Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup => Topic started by: maxsterling on July 29, 2015, 01:53:11 PM