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Hi, I'm new to the forum.  This is my story.

I met this great guy earlier this year.  We had everything in common to the point that we seemed like twins.  We began dating two months after we first met, and it seemed like a match made in heaven.  However, BF seemed to be really stuck on his ex, in a bad way.  He claimed that she was a diagnosed sociopath and had raped him by deceit and stolen his money before disappearing on him.  Even into our new relationship, he posted things on Facebook "warning" people about things related to his ex, whom he had completely blocked and erased from his life, despite having been engaged to her.  He described his relationship with her as a "whirlwind romance" -- they had gotten engaged after only ten days of online dating, and the relationship lasted about five months.

We did everything together for the months that we had a relationship.  We had a lot of common interests, so we virtually never disagreed on anything.  Working out how much time to spend together or what to do never, ever resulted in disagreement.  BF seemed so incredibly head over heels in love with me -- he continually talked about how I was amazing, how lucky he was to have met me, how our relationship was better than his wildest fantasy. 

I have my own set of issues -- abandonment fears, mostly -- from a previous long-term relationship ending.  I also have a mild anxiety disorder.  I have been evaluated by two psychologists and I have been told that my control over my disorder is incredibly enviable.  I am not a candidate for being medicated.  However, I do have my weak moments.

At any rate, as the relationship continued, red flags appeared.  My BF, who had virtually no living family left, was estranged from his aunt, whom he always describes as "pure evil."  He wrote off his own dad, who died early in our relationship, as a selfish man who didn't care about him at all, and I never saw him visibly mourn for him at all.  He continued to post things about his ex on Facebook despite our apparent happiness.  And there was something really freaky about the way he felt about me.

Despite his constant gushing about how amazing I was, I would try to tell him about my flaws and struggles, and he would virtually ignore them, or paper them over with something like, "But you're so amazing!" or something to that effect.  I found it disturbing because I could tell that he was not evaluating the relationship the way he should be in the early stages, e.g. "She's nice but I'm not sure about this one thing."  Nope.  I was perfect in every way.  I made valiant efforts to describe my anxiety disorder and abandonment fears to him, to no avail.  The night before we broke up, we had a discussion about it, where he promised he would always be there for me through all of it, and that he promised not to break up with me -- I was "stuck" with him no matter what.  I had never had a man feel this way about me before, but something about it just did not feel right.  He seemed interested in my emotional needs only on a very superficial level, as if he took more pride in doing what a "good boyfriend" would do on paper, rather than being responsive to what I was actually saying.

I was scared to share my opinions with him.  People who differed from him were "stupid."  He would talk to me on the assumption that I would agree with him, forcing me into confrontation with him if I wanted to share my own opinion.  He rarely saw grey areas on issues.  One time he went on a rant about a service employee who had offended him more than 20 years ago and how she should be fired.  Anyone who criticized him was the enemy, though criticism seemed to cut him really deep in private.

As the relationship went on, I learned that he was like a slot machine as far as meeting my needs.  On a good day, I would ask for what I needed, and he would be very compassionate and responsive.  He described himself as being very patient and tolerant, especially with people he cared about.  However, once I asked him to do something to help me with my abandonment anxiety, and he outright said no.  It was like he had no idea that meeting my needs was part of the relationship.  Another time he turned the discussion on me and told me that I was being "childish."  Needless to say, I felt like I was walking on eggshells.  I didn't dare ask him to do anything for me, for fear he would end the relationship.

Our physical chemistry was absolutely amazing.  Being alone together was electric.  However, he got most of the attention.  As far as bedroom activities went, he got satisfied on at least a 2:1 ratio to me.  Sometimes he would ask for sexual favors early in the morning while I was half asleep, then depart for work afterwards without paying any attention to me at all, as if that was his right.  I did not dare discuss this with him.

We went on a short vacation together and stayed in a nice hotel.  After going out on the town and seeing a show, I came back and expected a romantic evening, but instead he rolled over and went to sleep.  I was so mortally offended that I went and slept in the other bed in the hotel room.  He woke up absolutely angry at me, saying that his abandonment fears had been triggered so badly that he had had nightmares from me not being next to him in bed, and that I could never do that to him again.  I explained it away by saying that he had kicked a lot in his sleep, and he was fine with that.

When it came to sharing, he always took his slice out of the middle.  The last appetizer on the plate, the window seat, etc. was always his.  He was like a bottomless pit of need.

His opinions on important issues seemed to change and evolve depending on his mood.  Things like having children were tricky subjects, because I would think I knew how he felt about it, but then he'd blurt out something else randomly.  His feelings on his sexual relationship with his ex seemed to also change and evolve, ranging from horror at what she had done to sort of enjoying it.  Even food preferences could change in a heartbeat.

One time I dared criticize how he was treating me.  He got so anxious and upset that you could see his heart beating through his chest.  I backed off and learned to blame all my issues on my anxiety disorder.  I could present any issue to him as long as I made it clear it was MY problem -- if I acted like he had caused it, all bets were off.

Throughout the relationship I was terrified to ask for anything I needed.  Then he planned a vacation with some of his friends for six days.  I was really upset about him leaving, but of course did not dare voice my concerns.  He was staying in close quarters with a bunch of other women, and made no attempt to invite me along despite space opening on the trip.  He later told me it was my job to invite myself.  Asking him about this felt like an impending explosion, so I said nothing.  He essentially silenced my voice on the entire matter.  He was going to a destination he knew I wanted to visit, and justified it by saying that he "deserved' to go somewhere I hadn't been.  When he actually left, my anxiety reached a massive peak.  He was good about calling me for the first couple days, but on the last day it went 3 hours later than I expected before he called me, and I texted him.  He replied and said that he just hadn't had time to contact me at all, and wouldn't have time for a while.  I texted back that I felt like he was being very rude and ignoring me, and he should have at least sent me a text.  He turned off his phone and never turned it back on again.

Realizing that I was being dumped, I frantically tried to call and text him and apologize (even though I didn't think I had done anything wrong) and try to patch things up.  But it was too late.  He had made his decision.  I sent him a bunch of stuff about how much work I was putting into the relationship and how I didn't feel appreciated.  He just shut off his phone, said he would talk to me when he got home, and ignored me for two days.  When he got home, he dumped me via Facebook in the middle of the night, blocked me on every bit of social media we ever interacted on, and told me that I needed psychiatric help.  When I tried to contact a mutual friend for help understanding what happened, he poisoned the mutual friend against me, probably by telling him that I'm an insane stalker, and now the friend has me blocked too.  I know that I'm now getting the "smear" treatment that his ex-fiancee got.

I feel so incredibly violated.  I couldn't have been a better girlfriend to this man up to that moment.  We were so bonded and happy with each other, it seemed.  I think I am the victim of BPD . . .

I am concerned now that he is going to pop back into my life later, as seems to happen with these people.  Right now I am just reeling from the whole experience and trying to get on my feet.  Any words of support or encouragement are very much appreciated.

Hello GreenEyedMonster,

It certainly does sound like you gave it your all with him. The emotional dysregulations and push-pull behaviors are confusing and hurtful. Being dumped via social media is cruel, but not unsirprising given the history you describe.

Your own abandonment issues aside, its additionally cruel to have his issues projected onto you. I was abandned to couples' thereapy after one joint session by my Ex (not to mention being driven to another type of therapy in year 1 of 6, and similarly abandoned). Its so hurtful to be the people we are, and to try so hard to be the person they may want, only to be abandoned.

What's going on now? Are you worried about fallout from your social circle? Would you reengage with him if he reached out?

Turkish

Hi GreenEyedMonster, sorry to hear you were put through the wringer by a person with BPD. While we can't officially diagnose him as BPD, it sure sounds like he showed a lot of the behaviors and traits of a BPDer. Black and white thinking, selfishness, shallowness, and a host of other things detrimental to a healthy relationship.

How long ago was the breakup? How are you feeling and what things are you doing to cope? Best wishes and hugs to you! 

Thanks.  The breakup was just this Tuesday, though the fight and abandonment took place a week ago. 

I consider myself fortunate that I had had a 12-year relationship prior to this with someone who generally made me feel safe and loved.  I have had 2 amicable breakups, too, so I am pretty good at finding closure with people and patching things up, even if the romantic relationship doesn't work.  I am good friends with my other exes and talk to them regularly.  This means that I saw a lot of the warning signs early. 

I'm not 100% sure this guy had BPD either, but I never felt safe in the relationship.  He told me that he felt so incredibly safe with me that he would "trust me with his life" (way too early), and started saying I was The One and talking about our wedding just a few weeks in.  The idealization actually frightened me enough that I never settled in, because I was so high up on a pedestal I couldn't help but fall.  And given his attitude toward people who had wronged/disappointed him in the past, I knew that it would not end well.  My friends and family knew that I had serious doubts about the relationship.  The earliest red flags were his selfishness and sense of entitlement.  I kept telling my mom that I was deathly afraid to fight with him.

He labeled me an unstable stalker for having the gall to try to save our relationship and panicking after he stonewalled me and turned off his phone -- but in my opinion, my reaction was very human.  What else are you supposed to do when your life falls apart and you are confused?  I think anyone in my situation would have called and texted him like crazy trying to get some response, because the change was so shockingly abrupt and complete.  Also, I had a bunch of little spats like this with my exes and always got through them by talking through them when people cooled down.  This guy just never cooled down.

He had a near total lack of relationship experience, so the idealization part of the relationship left a lot to be desired.  He was reluctant to pay for me until he realized that I was paying for him a lot and he probably should.  He didn't hold doors for me or ask to go to events with me as a couple.  I never went to his house for the whole duration of the relationship -- everything was always at my house.  He met my entire extended family and came to events with us long before I even met his brother.  I guess I consider myself fortunate that I wasn't very taken in by the idealization.

I did a pretty good job of claiming our social circle in between when he stonewalled me and the official breakup because I was proactive and saw what was coming.  He was "addicted" to me last week but apparently thought he could have dinner with me this week and ignore me.  I contacted a mutual friend to try to gain closure or help and "proved" that I was a stalker, and then he removed himself from the event so I don't have to see him.  I think that is for the best.  I really do not care to see him again.

It's funny, even little things now are making my head spin.  Like how he said he hated sweets -- except pie, cakes, cookies, gummy worms, etc.  And how he absolutely hated peanuts in desserts.  But Snickers was his favorite candy bar.  And how I went to great lengths to get him to see me for one day of my vacation, but he said that if I didn't do it the way he wanted, he didn't think it was worth it.

Right now I am still feeling really confused and wondering if he was really a good boyfriend and I am the one who screwed up.

Hi GreenEyedMonster,

*welcome*

I'm sorry you had to go through this. It has to feel awful with your anxiety and your break-up  

Don't be hard on yourself, it sounds like he couldn't give you emotional intimacy.



I can see how he's selfish, shows little interest with your needs, you can't have an opinion, puts down others by calling them stupid, a sense of entitlement and he was humiliated by your criticism. It sounds like he has narcissistic traits:

DIFFERENCES|COMORBIDITY: Borderline and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90388.0)

I'm glad that you have joined us. It helps to talk.


----Mutt

I think he had some compensatory narcissism going on, yeah.  He had shockingly low self-esteem and would ask me sometimes to list the things I liked about him, especially after I had brought up any issues in our relationship.  He said he used to cry a lot when he was a kid and somebody got mad at him, but he "lost" the ability to cry.  I think he filled up that hole with narcissism and anger.

His dad was an alcoholic and his mom was physically ill and emotionally abusive through most of his life.  In a lot of ways, our relationship seemed to mirror the way that a mother-son relationship should have been for him.  He made sacrifices for his mom, not the other way around.  So in our relationship, he got taken care of like a little boy.  When we would go on vacation, he would choose almost all the things we would see, and maybe I'd get to pick one or two.  I was much more experienced and worldly than he was despite him being 10 years older than me, so it had the feel of me "showing him the world."  Our relationship had the same dynamic it would have when a parent would give up what she wanted to do or take joy simply in giving to her child.  He would occasionally offer to do something similar for me, because he knew that he had to to preserve the relationship, I think, but his mask really wasn't that good.  I actually do enjoy giving to people this way, but I expect a lot in return as well, and he wasn't holding up his end, and he wasn't capable of doing that and being happy.  The bottom line is that he bailed on me when I had needs he didn't want to meet.  He wanted to go on this vacation without me and be off the hook for contacting me except at his leisure, and so that's what he did.  I could take it or leave it.

He also lacked a full-time job despite two degrees.  He had quit two jobs on a whim because they were "just not worth it" and had failed to get a job in his chosen career, which he had also come to question.  He would take days off just to stay home and goof around despite an hourly paycheck.  I have a 10-year career using my bachelor's degree and I'm working on getting a job in my masters field.  I earn more than twice what he did.  I could see where that was going, too.

I am concerned about the "recycle" thing.  Clearly he has never recycled anyone before because he labeled his other ex as a psychopath and cut all ties with her.  She lives several states away.  However, I share some friends with him and he does have limited access to me at social events, if he chooses.  (Right now I am "evil" so he can't go to social events with me or I will "stalk" him.)  I understand that BPD people recycle but narcissists don't.  I honestly think that he will fail to find another "supply" at all, let alone one of my caliber.  He is not that good-looking, charming, or well-mannered to attract women, and he does not hide his selfishness even from day 1 of the relationship.  I can see myself getting painted "white" somewhere along the line here, because I blamed everything on my anxiety disorder.  What are the chances of that, do you think?  Do people get "white" again even after such a concentrated campaign based on the fact that they are the crazy one?

Hi GreenEyedAnxiety,

I can understand how that would hurt when he didn't meet your needs with abandonment anxiety.

From our members stories that I have read here, it can take weeks, months, years or decades when we're split back to white. From my experience, I had a campaign 2 1/2 years ago and was called an emotionally, physically and financially abusive husband. I didn't think that I would be split white again because of how intense my ex was, I am slowly getting split white though in the last few months.

He had a very high level of cognitive empathy.  He could figure out how I was feeling in almost any situation, if he was trying.  But he reacted to need with revulsion rather than compassion.  In particular, he really disliked children and had a very unflattering and profane nickname for them.  Neediness in any form was the biggest turn-off for him.  I think the way he dumped me was in part a sort of punishment for being needy, and therefore disgusting.

It sounds like he may be an empath? It sounds like he rejected you. I'm sorry

He told me he was an empath.  Is this common with BPD?

I don't think it's synonymous with cluster B personality disorders. It's sad to hear that he's selfish and was an empath.

He suffered from intense loneliness earlier in his life because of not having a girlfriend until he was almost 40.  Now having had a girlfriend who cared for him so much and was so unselfish, I wonder how easy it will be for him to "go back" to being a loner.  He told me that he would rather be alone than be in a "bad" relationship, and he has now painted our relationship black, basically, and written it off as bad, because I was needy for two days.  I wonder, though, as time goes on and he sits at home alone with no companion and no sex and nothing to do (since he alienated himself from our social circle) if he is going to have second thoughts about how "needy" I really was.  If his memories focus on the good things we did together, will I be painted white again because he misses me?  Not sure I want this to happen, just mentally preparing for eventualities here.

I'm not sure that it's about memories. I think your thinking he may pause and reflect?  :)oes he have push / pull behavior?

No, our relationship was very much in the honeymoon stage.  He had not expressed any disillusion with me at all literally up until the moment he painted me black.  I was perfect.  It was really a shocking degree of emotional purity toward me, very child-like.  We only ever had that one fight.  A few days before the fight he was so attached to me that he would not leave my house, and described himself as being "addicted" to me.

Though in hindsight, I wonder if his going on vacation without me was a "push."  He acted like it was sort of revenge for me going somewhere without him (which was for work, and unavoidable) earlier in the month. 

I'm thinking he may pause and reflect, or realize after another attempted relationship that I put up with way more from him than anyone else ever will.

A person with BPD may have a "clingy manner" if the person is fearing abandonment; if the other person in the r/s gets too close they may feel engulfed. I think that your thinking that it's a final "split black" Its hard to tell, I can say when my ex was engulfed she acted out and I was "all bad" and she would push me away and a few days later we'd get back together.

What does "engulfment" mean? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281066.msg12655920#msg12655920)

I'm very familiar with the concept of engulfment because I've dealt with that fear myself as well.  My abandonment/engulfment fears are manageable, though, and usually my partner isn't even aware of them unless I'm put in a very stressful or unusual situation.  I had discussed this openly with my BF long before our fight.

I absolutely agree with you that I made him feel engulfed.

The reason I see myself as "split black" is because of the total stonewalling on social media and the fact that he had convinced mutual friends to do likewise.  He told me when he left me that he thinks I'm a nice person, but I think the split black bit has more to do with being "dangerous" and "triggering" than anything else.  This is because I never engaged in open conflict with him, and always took responsibility for any disagreement so that he didn't have to.  I even wrote him a letter after the breakup sort of softening the blow and saying I wanted to be friends.

Since I know how engulfment feels, I know that it can result in temporary feelings of hate/revulsion toward the other person.  I imagine this is why he thought he could see me in person and feel nothing for me.  I also know from personal experience that this tends to wear off.  It seems like in the near future, he could be feeling a deep sense of abandonment or missing me.

Is this more of a push/pull move than splitting black?  Since we are part of the same social circle, it will be possible for him to resume contact with me on a very casual basis without apology or discussion.  Right now he certainly sees my neediness as a threat, though, and is clearly very upset by it.  It's been a week.

So, are you thinking this thing might cycle back?

One other interesting thing I remembered while I was resting today.

He determined that his ex-girlfriend was crazy and developed a one-month long plan to "escape" her.  He was convinced that she was going to turn him into her sex slave and then kill him. 

After going through with his detailed plan, he told me that his feelings for her returned with a vengeance and he had to read his journals about their fights in order to keep from wanting to go back to her.

Sounds like when your partner dysregulates he gets paranoid? Part of it may have to do with emotional amnesia/object constancy as well. My ex did not remember much from 16-24. She actually had to go back and talk to the people she was involved with to find out, along with her journals

For sure he is paranoid.  The interesting thing is that he hasn't actually seen me since the breakup, and the breakup happened entirely over text and the Internet.  So the "object constancy" thing is huge here.  I wonder what would happen if he actually saw me in person again.

Object constancy was just brought up, and I thought I'd chime in with some information from a video I watched last night.  The video is from a female BPD who is in therapy, and she discussed object constancy.  It was very enlightening to me to hear her talk about it because I only ever thought of it in very simplistic terms.  What she said is that this concept also bleeds into past events.  So, when she thinks about previous relationships and friendships that have ended, she basically just remembers the last thing that happened.  She has a hard time seeing the relationship as a whole entity.  So, that's why she finds it so easy to discard people.  She doesn't think about the ways the person tried to support her or the ways in which she hurt the person. 

As rotiroti mentioned, his ex didn't remember anything from ages 16-24.  In another video I watched today, a different female BPD mentioned that she doesn't remember her childhood.  She doesn't think anything extremely traumatic happened, but she just doesn't remember anything from it.  Obviously, we don't remember everything from childhood, but I would imagine most of us remember important events, family vacations, etc.  I have a very clear memory of my mom and I driving upstate, visiting a family friend, and listening to Neil Diamond's "America" while we drove.  I remember that friend's dalmatian (it wasn't a nice dog) and, for some reason, her bathroom. 

GreenEyedMonster, this definitely seems to be what's going on with your ex and his feelings for his ex.  This may be part of the reason why pwBPD often come back to us.  They have a hard time seeing the whole picture.   

Okay. I am trying to sort out what this all means.

If the last interaction we had was a fight and me frantically trying to save the relationship and engulfing him, why doesn't it just stay that way?  Why aren't I permanently split black?

How long will it take for things to change, if ever?

Does emotional amnesia block out the good part of the relationship, and then later the bad?  What are the implications?

If he sees me in person again, will that change things?

Do you think it is even likely that he will come back?

I really feel like I need to tackle this from a position of strength.

I think that is wise to want to take on the situation when you have more strength. I get what you are saying though, it sucks to think that you treated them with so much patience right up until the end when anxiety got the better of you and now thats all they think of. My relationship ended in similar a fashion. 

I am concerned because he can access a lot of information about where I am and who I am with, giving him the upper hand as far as where or when we meet next -- if ever.  For my part, I'm quite content to not see him for the rest of the month at least, to give myself time to get my bearings and find the pieces of myself I cut off during this relationship and glue them back on.

Unlike many of the people discussed on here, my ex actually IS in therapy, though he didn't mention BPD as one of his diagnoses.  That least gives me a little shred of hope.

Right now I just want information, lots of information.

Hello GEM,

From what you've been saying, it sounds like you are hopeful of some kind of connection here. That may be possible, given learning more about BPD, how to communicate in non triggering ways, and learning to assert healthy boundaries. Take a look at these lessons for more:

Lessons for Members who are uncertain about their relationships or are in transition (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.0)

Whether or not he reconnects, the ball is in his court now, it seems, but you can gain clarity by going through the info above.

Turkish

The majority of the time I am not hoping for him to come back.  But like any normal human tossed in the midst of such a confusing situation, I am not 100% sure yet.  I am just trying to be honest with myself about my feelings on the situation at any given moment and let my emotions run their course.  By being a "psycho stalker" I managed to discourage him from coming to dinner with me on the 15th, so I suppose I bought myself a little more NC to think things through.

I can't imagine him coming back to me after all this, but I am beginning to realize that I am in a universe with different rules.

I am beginning to think that I am ripe for recycling, based on a few reasons:

-I took the fall in almost every fight, including most of the blame in the final one

-He knows I'm still interested

-He is the one who cut me out of his life so he has the ability to unblock me

-We share mutual friends

-He has the ability to show up where I am and "feel me out" without any sort of risk of rejection

-I was insanely kind to him during the relationship, and probably met his needs better than anyone in his entire life

-I am the only ex he has that he can go back to

-He has a very hard time picking up women, and thus will not easily find a replacement

-He's clingy, and women don't like that in a man, thus he will get rejected a lot.  He is unlikely to get another relationship to last long.

-He's older and not very physically attractive

-We only ever fought once, so the majority of our relationship is happy memories

-He lives 5 miles away from me

-He nearly recycled his LDR ex even though he was frightened of her

-I could probably think of more reasons . . .

The only strike against it is that he has a lot of anxiety/shame and some narcissistic tendencies.  He'd have to own up to what he did.  But frankly, I don't think he thinks he did anything wrong at all, so that might not be a sticking point.  Since I basically owned the cause of the fight, he could come back into the situation and be the "good guy" who decides to put up with my problems.

Therefore I think it is in my best interest to fully understand what getting back together with him would mean, and make an educated rather than an emotional decision about it.

Thing is, it was not just the idealization that drew me in.  He and I are objectively very similar and compatible and have very similar backgrounds.  So there is that to consider as well.

So if anyone can answer any of the questions I posted above with quality information, I'd really appreciate it.

It is understandable that right now you're confused and in an information gathering mode. Read as much as you can about the disorder, you can click on the "Articles" button at the top of the webpage to start.

Remember that for a BPD, feelings are facts. And feelings are temporary. You may be happy right now, but you could easily switch to angry if somebody cuts you off on traffic or sad if you hear that your best friend died. His feelings for you are a complicated interaction of his current mindset, what is happening to him now, and a whole host of other factors. And these things can change. An emotionally mature person can weather these changes without radically changing what they think of you. Somebody who has an unstable sense of self cannot be relied upon to have a stable sense of others around them.

Can you sustain a healthy relationship with a BPD person? It depends. Are you interested in getting back together? Why?

First I think we can all agree the sex is amazing! The best I've ever had. I guess it's a thing.

Second in the beginning they're always your soulmate and agreeable. It changes don't worry.

Third. Be glad he dumped you this is only the beginning of the cycle of abuse. Get off the roller coaster ride now. He did you a favor.

Believe there is someone out there who will greet you better. Unless you want to play psychologist for life always waking on eggshells and perhaps your kids having the same disorder. Leave and move forward!

The best book "stop walking on eggshells" or I hate you don't leave me

Yep, the sex thing is totally true.  That was pretty mind-blowing.  I still think about that a lot, actually, and that surprises me.

I'm reading like crazy.  (And just woke up from nightmares about the breakup.  One where I went through every cell phone I had, trying to call him, trying anything to get a hold of him . . . and he wouldn't answer . . .)  I am really most worried right now about these questions.  Also, is my assessment of my recycling potential anywhere near correct?  Not many articles speak to issues like this, so this is where I can use the most help.  I am trying to understand how and why his feelings about me may change so that I am ready.  Like I said, it is mind blowing that he could come back after this, but I guess his view of things is probably very different . . .

I am not sure what I want to do yet.  I am really still just digesting everything.  I feel like trying to force myself into a mindset right now where I decide not to take him back will backfire on me and make me miss him more.  For my own sake, I'm taking this decision as slowly as I can.  Thing is, he can show up in my life at any given moment, and from what you all tell me, he might.

Yes it shuts one off like all good and all bad and forgets the other. I see it as they only have enough room to focus on one column in their head.

My h BPD focuses all of feelings and ignored fact. To him feelings are more valid than the actual facts and therefore become reality. It's very hard very confusing and may last for one day to a week, and will flip again. Some times it's mere moments but it can last up to two weeks. The good periods last about 2-3 months. 60-90 days before he needs to explode again... .

And it can be over anything a tone of my voice, a look on my face, or something I'd did or said that he didn't like.

There are no perfect reasons. It really can be anything, this the "walking on eggshells"

My ex has cut off all contact with me both on social media and in person, but like I said, we share a social circle.

I understand that I might get "painted white" again, though, for no particular reason, even without seeing him again.  Is this true?  How does this happen?

And if that does happen, what happens to all of his supposedly great reasons for ending the relationship?  Is he likely to explain them or make excuses or just ignore them?

Will I get re-idealized?

GEM, you're asking questions to where the answers are mostly maybe. A person with BPD is very immature emotionally, perhaps on the the level of about a two to four year old. When you refuse to buy them the latest toy they've seen, you're the devil until it's lunchtime because you're the source of all good food.  lol

Nobody can predict how and why he'll paint you white. I thought you were angry at him, so in an analogous manner, how and why would you change your mind and take him back? Also the way he dumped you, how would you explain to yourself why you would take him back?

I have felt about every emotion in the book toward this guy since he left me (eight days ago).  Even more so since I found out it's probably BPD.   He is following the BPD script like clockwork, too, which is fascinating to me.

I am asking these questions precisely because I know I have a weakness for this guy, so I need to be ready if/when he does come back.  I am writing my game plan.  I am trying to figure out what it is realistic to expect from him.   I will probably end up at least having to try to be friends with him, and possibly with my replacement, so I have to understand what I'm dealing with.

The other reason I'm asking these questions is just sheer bewilderment.  I had never really read about BPD until a few days ago, and being so affected by it so quickly has my head spinning.  I keep saying, "That explains a lot," but like I said, I am really most bewildered by how he will justify (or not) taking me back, or ignore the past, or something like that.  I process things very verbally/intellectually so for me, knowing some of these things is helping me get through it.  I am grateful for all the information everyone has shared.

I was actually happy at first when I believed that painting black might be permanent, because at least then I could move on in the hopes that I wouldn't see him again and I could work on coping with being hated.  The more I learn, the more I realize that I am unlikely to even find closure this way, so I am working on building my own closure, no matter what he does.

The really annoying thing, like I said, is that I actually do like him as a person.

When we were on vacation together, he said something really nasty and dismissive to me out of stress.  Hours later when I tried to talk to him about it, he didn't remember saying and denied that he had said it at all.  I think that he has some serious dissociative tendencies, so I imagine I could get anything in the future.

Good for you for trying to understand as well as prepping a "game plan". Remember to prep yourself for surprises as well. Things can easily go off track when real life deviates from the plan.

Memory is a very fluid and changing thing even in people who are not mentally ill. Each time we remember something it's actually our memory of the last time we remembered it. If you've ever played the childhood game "telephone" -- kids sit in a circle and one kid whispers a message into the next kid's ear, that kid whispers it to the next kid, and so on until it returns totally mutated to the original kid -- then you can realize how easily the memory can change.

People also have the need to deny those things that may conflict with their sense of self and what they're feeling. If I feel I'm a nice person, then I won't say that I cut another driver off, it was the other driver who wouldn't give me space to change lanes.

How do you think you'll react if he wants to get back together? What if he's with somebody else?

I guess this is the million dollar question.  If I'm totally honest with myself right at this moment, I do not know.  I am trying to get to that place before I see him again.

You mean if he's with somebody else at the same time he wants to get back together with me?  Well, that does throw a wrench into things.  Sheesh, what a mess.

To be honest, I'd be shocked if he found someone else so quickly.  He tends to go on a lot of dates but not form relationships for whatever reason.  He is a bit of an odd one from the word "go" and isn't to many women's tastes, not to mention the fact that he completely lacks any sort of pick up skills or first date etiquette.  (I paid for my own coffee on our first several dates.)   He had a bit of a Goldilocks complex about women, in that his BPD preference for someone with a "just right" amount of interest in him determines who he will see again.  If anyone appears to be engulfing or abandoning him right away, they're history.  He is more likely to be spinning his wheels and alone.

Right now I am still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that he might come back at all.  For any "normal" person, they'd know that they had burned every single bridge.  But like I said, I think in his mind he sees me at fault for everything, so maybe he'd just think he was a great guy for taking back such a pathetic person.  I really don't know.  This felt like a totally permanent falling out to me, complete with a forever goodbye (with a PS that he'd see me again).  

Based on what people here have been telling me, the last event in the relationship (in our case, the fight) is what defines it.  So how could I get painted white if that's still the last event?  Memory?  Reflection?  Total random caprice?

We can't control being split white or black.

The pwBPD doesn't have control with splitting.

It happens on its own.

It's OK not to know, that's life... .And even if you make a decision, it's your right to change your mind.  Relationships are complicated, even more so when you throw mental illness into the mix!

Re: splitting, it's like Mutt said. That's why it's part of a mental illness. Schizophrenics that talk crazy to themselves show their illness on the outside. BPDers have a lot hidden on the inside. And if they could control it, they wouldn't be ill.

One of the best things about this community is the amount of collective knowledge. Yet it's like the weather, meteorologists have all these sophisticated computers and scientific models, yet they still manage to get it wrong half the time.

Keep exploring, keep asking questions both about the illness and to yourself about what you want. 

I am torn between the two things I know about him right now --

1) He says he'd rather be alone than be in a "bad" relationship -- I assume this means one that is engulfing or comes with a risk of abandonment.  He is extremely risk-averse in this regard, and rarely makes it past a first date.  (Then again, he said this in the most comfortable stretch of our relationship, so being alone wasn't feeling threatening at that moment.)

2) I am the only person on earth who has come close to providing a "good" relationship for him.  I mean, heck, he even got tempted to recycle the girl he thought might kill him, so certainly I'd be a candidate.

Part of me thinks he's so fussy that he will never take me back now that I am flawed.  The other part of me thinks his desperate loneliness will creep up on him and he'll remember what were probably the most amazing four months of his life, possibly forgetting the two days I was clingy.  I don't have enough understanding of his illness, however, to make even an educated guess at this, and that's just leaving me feeling disoriented.

Another random thing I remembered.

He hated his ex with a fiery passion.  But if I dared criticize her . . . he would defend her.

Incidentally, his take on his relationship with her was that she "discarded" him, but from what he said, he's the one who backed out of the relationship first.

Green Eyed wrote

This felt like a totally permanent falling out to me, complete with a forever goodbye (with a PS that he'd see me again). 

---Can you share details? Why does it seem like a permanent one? What was the "forever goodbye"?

Shatra

I should say that I have no idea what a "forever goodbye" from a BPD person looks like.

Basically, he lost all romantic feeling -- and empathy I might add -- for me in a matter of about ten minutes.  He sent me a goodbye letter in the middle of the night telling me that I was "sweet and attractive" but that I needed mental health help.  He ended it by literally saying goodbye to me.  Then he proceeded to block me on every single bit of social media we ever interacted on, and induced the one mutual friend I talked to to do the same.  (The mutual friend heard my side of the story first, promised that he believed me, and then was taken over to the dark side by the smear campaign.)  He was going to have dinner with me and a group of friends on the 15th -- proof in my mind that he really feels absolutely nothing for me, because who can just face their ex like that two weeks after a breakup? -- but after I contacted the mutual friend he dropped out of that too.  I don't see any way back from this.

My interpretation of this is that he didn't like being responsible for my feelings.  It made him feel engulfed.  So rather than responding to me empathetically and being there for me as a friend even though he didn't want to date me, he distanced himself from me so much that he doesn't have to feel anything at all about me.  The instant I asked something from him, it was basically a giant, "You and your feelings are not my problem."

The frequency and intensity of the nightmares me ex caused me is really unreal.

I think that is probably the hardest part for nons, well at least for me, is the sometimes utter lack of a final goodbye. From my experience and what others have said on this forum, it seems like most goodbyes are ambiguous at best.

This is the part I'm really struggling with right now.  Do you mean that they're ambiguous in terms of the person coming back and regretting it later?  I am worried that this will happen when I'm at a particularly vulnerable point in life and I will make a bad choice.  It's all too easy for this guy to know where I am and show up when he starts feeling lonely and purposeless.

I mean its ambiguous as to the nature of the goodbye. normal relationships usually end with a clear: this is why things are over and this is how much contact we might have later, whereas BPD relationships are usually both unclear as to why things ended and if they will try to connect later. The best thing is to not let that ambiguity lull you into a state where you think "well maybe we can get back together and it will be ok?". Id say just do what youve been doing, regain your strength so that if he does try to contact you, you will be able to stand your ground.

Shockingly, he did give me a reason that the relationship ended (because of my alleged mental illness, which he claimed he could not handle) and it seems pretty unambiguous that he doesn't want to get back together, ever.  It also seems like he instantly assumed we could be friends, because within hours, he was signing up to go to events with me. 

But in truth, all of this came about two days after he cut me off with the silent treatment while he was on vacation.  I think he knew that if he didn't give me some kind of explanation, he couldn't come to events with our friends anymore.  So he did it on IM in the middle of the night and then cut me off.

Hmm that is interesting that he gave you such a concrete reason. The second bit however seems pretty typical though. I don't know about you but i have always felt the way pw BPD end relationships is kinda chicken sht. The last time i saw my ex in person was really terrible because we were at a music fest and she just walked away with friends when i went to the restroom. I kinda figured that was the end but i didnt even get answers from her until weeks later over text. Sorry for that tangent, anyway i guess long story short i know how you feel. 

Thanks.

I think he gave me an explanation because we share a mutual group of friends that he doesn't want to lose, and he knows that the next time I saw him in person, I'd demand an explanation.  So yeah, he gave me one that was total chickensh*t.

I just e-mailed the guy who hosts our parties that I promise never to speak to my ex again unless he speaks to me first, so that he can at least have his pathetic social life and not sit on his butt at home all the time.  I'm accepting that I will never get any kind of apology or explanation after this, so the least I can do is not strain our group of friends.  Besides, I'd like to just get over with seeing him in person again.  Maybe I'll get lucky and at least have some control and foresight on how he comes back into my life.

I might add that this guy is clearly a waif.

Yeah the fallout from mutual friend groups can be tricky. It sounds like you handled it in a mature way though.

It's not as if I'll ever get closure, so I may as well not torment anyone else in its pursuit.

It's very telling of what I've been dealing with that I think that agreeing not to talk to him so that he can come might make him even angrier.

Yeah thats probably the wisest thing to do.


- i know that feel. But yeah defiantly stand your ground on this one. If you maintain NC it will build YOUR emotional strength and allow you to handle the situation in  the best way possible.

Hello GEM

I might not be much help but so many of the things you have mentioned I can relate to. My ex says horrible hurtful things to me but if I reply he goes off the wall ballistic and point blank refuses to listen to me. Sometimes but not often he will say he understands and is sorry but they are few and far between. Unfortunately I am a seriously messed up human being because of all this, struggle with my emotions and although I can't nderstand why I still love him and stand back as if I am on the outside looking on and being  horrified as he humiliates and hurts me. This weekend after he had a punishing go at me and I got upset he told me it sickened him to see tearfilled eyes and shaking hands and if I was going to carry on like that everytime he talkedto me then there was no point in going on. When I agreed he shut up. Please, if you are not seriously emotionally involved then stop now. It breaks my heart to think of others suffering like I am even though there are so many. Please think very carefully before you go back to him if he initiates it. I would give anything to be able to deal as rationally as you are doing with his and your own issues. You should be very proud of yourself. Yourself is the key word! I haven't got myself at the moment, I have lost me, please hang on to you. Love  and strength, Sadly. xx

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