BPDFamily.com

BPDh and I are going to have to have a serious talk tomorrow. He lost his cool tonight, and I think he almost hit me. It was the most scared I've ever been of him physically, even more so than the times he actually did grab me, and I'd end up with bruises.

Now, I wonder if this was why he was saying not long ago that he is scared of this. I think he is scared HE will hurt me. I think he just said he was afraid of me, because of projection? I don't think he thinks I'd hurt him, as I never have, and I don't even really defend myself. He does know I'm not the type to just forgive and let it go. He knows I'd press charges. In a sick way, it would almost assure he gets more serious help? I don't want it to happen, of course, but his DBT does not seem to be helping with his fast onset rage. Overall anger, yes, but he's been escalating lately.

He also mentioned that I should "just move out". More threats. I spent three years being threatened to divorce, move out, be done, but the threats have mostly stopped after we reconciled, until just recently. I don't want to move out, but I also am starting to be a little scared of him. Plus, I don't feel he has any need of me, or wants me. He just views me as someone who complains, when all I'm really trying to do is tell him how I feel(using I statements), and make things better. I'm trying to be a team, but he doesn't want to be.

We went to a family reunion of his today, and there were a lot of people I hadn't met, and he didn't introduce me once. We've addressed this in MC, so I know it's deliberate. He used to introduce me, but I think it's a power/control/disrespect thing. I'll just be standing there, next to him, and he acts as if I don't exist. I'll usually end up presenting my hand to the person, and giving my name, after he's had ample time, and it becomes obvious, and awkward that he doesn't.

How do I address this issue with him regarding that I fear he was going to hit me? I don't want to say or do the wrong thing... .and it feels to me like he's pushing me away.

Oh, and when I say "team", I mean I'd like a little common courtesy. So not even your normal marriage team effort. What I mean is that I'd like to be informed when he makes plans, or maybe ask me first before he goes and makes plans that also involve ME. He acts like he's single, and he seems to have no manners anymore when it comes to me. He's just inconsiderate towards me. I'm always out of the loop, and half the time it's other family members of his who tell me what's going on. I find that very weird.

Oh that is so scary.

He almost hit you. What happened?

Sounds like he is provoking you into a decision to walk away. The anger maybe a frustration out of you not being provoked by his not so subtle exclusions from his life.

Maybe he wants to give up T, and he resents you for wanting him to continue

What would happen if you called his bluff?

If you don't action a serious boundary and continue to hope and wait, things stand a good chance or serious escalations. There are plenty of  red-flag  about

I'm not sure that he wants to discontinue therapy, as he seems almost addicted to the attention he gets in therapy. He seems to LOVE therapy. He's going to three different therapists, after all, only one of which is our MC.

I think what he wants is for me to never "complain", as he calls it. How do you never address things your partner does that hurt or bother you? I'm careful how I present it, and I use "I" statements, and am always just looking for a way to make things better, but to him, it's "complaining" about things he does.

I do think he's pushing me away, and ignoring me for some reason. I'm not sure what that reason is though. He treats me like I'm invisible(unless he wants sex, or someone to do one of HIS activities with), yet he doesn't want to hear how this makes me feel.

I do need a serious boundary around his recent anger, but I'm just not sure how to do that? He has DBT tomorrow, and we also have MC, so maybe he can address it in DBT, and I can bring it up in MC? I'm getting a rather strong male bias though from our MC, even though I really, really like our T.

How do I set a boundary around his increasing anger? The last thing I want is to be hit. He seems to be teetering on the edge of controlling his aggressive anger.

Oh, and another weird thing. He has always said to me, and did so again last night: "I don't know how to fix things". What does that mean? I always have a plan of action, or am using the tools I've learned here, or something I've read, to try to make a change in our relationship, yet HE seems to think his actions make no difference.

I'll tell him exactly what could make things better: him controlling his anger, introducing me to people(how hard is that?, plus we've addressed it in MC), try to "connect" more and zone out less.

Now, I realize he has some form of PD, almost certainly BPD or APD, and definitely he's NP, but COME ON. I'm not one of those women who make you guess what they want. I don't play games. I'm respectful to HIM, even when I'm upset at him. I can always be calm, and I've only lost my cool a few times total. So why can't he just understand that when you treat someone like crap so often, it RUINS things? What you think, you create. What you do, you live with the consequences of that!

I'll outright tell him what HE can do that will make me feel loved, because he always tells me he WANTS me to feel loved, but then he's too stubborn, defiant, or it just makes him feel controlled to do them. Now, it's even just being mannerly and "normal". He can't introduce me, and he leaves me to fend for myself at a huge event and I end up sitting alone, feeling awkward. Now, I know I could go strike up a conversation with someone, but I'm sick of having to do that. All I ask is that he doesn't totally ignore me at functions, and act like I'm even there!

I don't know. I don't know how this can change. If he told me things that he needed, I'd do it, if it wasn't a major boundary issue. Heck, I already do that! I work hard on meeting his needs, and they are many.

I have very few needs that he meets, because I get my needs met elsewhere by either myself or friends, but come on, now he's even acting like I'm invisible? He also did this at MY family reunion. He chose to sit elsewhere when we ate, he didn't come check in with me(I did him though), and my family who'd never met him, I'm sure didn't know he was my husband. When we first got there, I was introducing him to people, then he just took off.

I don't know what his issue is, but he's taken a real turn for WEIRD. Plus, his anger is back.

If he has NPD traits, he is probably punishing you for "making" him feel less than who he is "supposed" to be being.

Beyond that, it may be that you need to back off for a while, with the intent of allowing things to calm. Not that you are giving up on the marriage and him, but that you are taking a break to let him ponder things, and you are giving your own self a break from feeling like you have to do something to fix things. Because by trying to talk to him, even though you feel you are doing what YOU need to be doing, you trying to talk to him could be triggering him to feel enmeshed and overwhelmed. Hence his distancing himself from you, though he knows you find his actions hurtful.

It's a dishonest way of him communicating to you. As a BPD/ maybe ASP or NPD, it's the way he is choosing to handle things.

Sorry this is so tough. I am right there with you. It's so hard to just let go and accept sometimes for a period of time. It's hard. 

I have been working on my co dependent issues and abandonment issues to try and build up emotional stability. It is helping some. Have you also looked at your own abandonment issues in this situation? You say you are getting needs met elsewhere, but you also express a lot that he has left you on your own or is ignoring you. It's a really painful place to be and can trigger off a lot of effort ( non productive effort) to "fix" things so it doesn't happen.

Remember, you left your child for this man. That is a primary relationship that you set aside to be with someone who had abandoned you and came back. You yielded to his condition to leave your son behind for him. You say he insisted, but I don't see a lot of expression from you why you would take such an action. ie, the anxiety and fear of losing him overwhelmed your anxiety and fear of losing your son.

Just my own thoughts, but I really do see a ton of abandonment issues that you are dancing around. It's a serious thing, and you are exposing yourself to some very real danger in order to try and connect with this person who is clearly abusing you in some extreme ways.

Maybe it's time to turn your investigations and thoughts to yourself again and consider why?

No offense intended, truly I mean well to you. 

I definitely have some fears of abandonment, and really wanted this marriage to work. I think my fear of abandonment mostly came about though due to his constant threats to leave. And now, he's actually left once, so I know he's capable of doing it again if triggered enough. He does lots of things impulsively.

I did choose my marriage, and my son seems happy living with my folks, but I still see this as a huge sacrifice that BPDh made me make. Had my son been younger, I'd have had no choice but to leave BPDh, and it was actually my son who told me to save my marriage. Even my son is more mature than BPDh, sadly.

I realize that trying to communicate with his doesn't work, but how are things to ever get any better if I can't communicate with him at all? His workers under him gave him poor ratings for failure to communicate, and it effected his yearly bonus. This is a huge issue with him. If it was up to him, he'd almost never talk to me. He'll talk a ton to everyone else, but he definitely ignores me on purpose.

I'm doing good getting most of my needs met, but yeah, it STINKS that my spouse doesn't meet ANY of them. Why am I with him then? What do I get out of this? I'm struggling to see why I essentially chose this man over my son? I thought things might continue to be good, but they've deescalated, and now I feel really alone. I feel he chose to isolate me from my family.

I'm trying very, very hard to not be codependent, or enmeshed, and so now, it just feels like we are living separate lives. He does his thing, I do mine. I realize this isn't something I can fix, as I'm only half the equation, but I need to get to a place where I don't feel badly for being ignored, neglected, and verbally abused? I don't know if I'll ever get to that place, and I'm pretty sure I shouldn't... .

He promised we'd talk today, but he's made no attempt, and he's clearly angry.

I, too, am wondering why you're with him.

I guess like a lot of us, I live for the good times. There are good times, but they are getting fewer and fewer between again. For a time, we had lots of good times, and I thought we had a much more normal marriage for a while. It's like ever since he dropped the what I think of as the "negative bomb" on me in MC, he's been on a negative bent.

I feel he's seeing just how far he can push me away. Now he's saying he doesn't get enough free time. Right on the heels of me saying I feel we are disconnected. He wants to pursue more of his hobbies, which I'm all for, but I have to admit, I feel neglected. His last wife had all the same complaints. When we were dating, it was easy to discount her complaints, because he was the exact opposite with me. I was being wooed, and I was getting the false front. Once we married, I got ignored, and verbally abused. I knew something just wasn't right in the erratic ways he was behaving.

When it's good, it's good, but when it's bad it's horrid. Just like the nursery rhyme. If he didn't say or do such damaging things when it's bad, and if when things were good, it involved more than doing just when he wants. Marriage is supposed to involve compromise, and negotiation, but ours involves none of that. I told him that, and he actually said I get my way, so I calmly asked for ONE example, and seriously, he couldn't even list ONE. Why? Because I always give him his way, yet he's still a miserable sun of a gun.

Now, he's robbed me of any security I did have with him. He enjoys taking away any hope I had. He says he wants to meet my needs, and for us to be happy, but he's clearly not willing to do ANYTHING that entails. F bombing me when mad is something he says he can't control? Really? It's not like he has turrets, he doesn't. He can control it, and when I calmly remind him he promised not to F bomb me, he'll do it twice more in short order. It's like twisting the knife.

He says he doesn't want me to move out, like he ordered me to do last night, but he is also "out of ideas". Yeah, MY ideas are discounted obviously. If he would make suggestions, I'd try them. Not him. He just wants to create drama and misery, and have my enjoy it.

I thought I/We were cut out to make it because I'm pretty calm and have learned to let a lot of this roll off. But it just feels like he keeps upping the ante.  Maybe I'm not, after all.

Maybe the more you take control of your life, the more he tries to assert control by being uncooperative. Witholding can often be used as a tool to "show you who's in charge"

And how do you counteract their willingness to up the ante? The only way I found to is to completely disengage for a few days... or weeks. Is there any other way not to play that game, because the non seems to end up the loser.

For now, I'm giving him his own way on everything. It galls me to do that, but it seems to be the only thing that makes him happy. I have a friend who has pointed out that BPDh just wants a robot or puppet, with no feelings. He wants to do what he wants, when he wants, with zero accountability. My fear is that what happened last time will occur again: Him saying he's unhappy and wanting to be with other women. Gross, just gross. He told me not long ago that he has regrets over marrying his first wife so young, and not sowing his oats. At 48, I'd have thought he'd have come to terms with that.

I definitely have a few boundaries now, but I can't say I've taken control of my life. I'm working on it, but it's small steps. Even those seem to threaten his sense of control I think, as Waverider stated. I think that could be it. He definitely withholds, but he won't call it that. He has admitted to "stonewalling" or ignoring, which to me, is part of withholding. He does that A LOT. Doesn't answer me. He just flat out ignores me.

I mentioned my going alone to the cabin I'd rented for us. It's at a resort type place, sort of a rustic cabin, and I'd thought my going alone would give us both a break. He didn't like that idea at all.

Any ideas of how I can disengage while he's around? I've been telling him to "veg out"(his term for watching tv, or other solitary pursuits he likes), but while he complained about needing more "veg out" time, he won't do it if I suggest it! It's like if I suggest it, he resents it, then wants to do something with me, of his choosing of course. Yeah, I'm starting to see this is ALL about power/control due to his BPD... .

CB,

Focus on this... .and the "thinking" that it represents... .

Working on "telling yourself" more things to do to disengage... .focus less on "telling him". 

In fact... .what would life be like if you took a week off from "telling him" to do anything.  If he asks... .let him figure it out.

You solve your problems... .

He solves his problems... .

I think you are right... .if you "suggest" something... .that is triggering... .it doesn't seem to matter what the subject matter is.

Next issue:

Hey... .can you elaborate on what happened that led you to believe you were going to be hit... .just curious how that dynamic evolved... .

FF

Oh, I thought he might hit me because he got upset over my asking him to stop f bombing me. I made the mistake of reminding him that he'd promised not to do it anymore, so he then did it twice more, in a hateful voice. I approached his side of the bed to tell him that wasn't okay(because he likes to talk to me with his back turned, and he won't look at me when he's talking), and he jumped up and got aggressive. It was so sudden that it startled me. Looking back, I should have left the room. We'd been having a calm discussion prior to that though, then as soon as I took exception to being f bombed, he exploded.

He didn't hit me, but I got the strong feeling he wanted to. He dumped water on my bed(Boo Hoo, whoopee big deal, it's water), then stomped off and slept on the couch. I slept in his huge king size bed I got for him(he dumped the little bit of water on the bed in the room I'd been sleeping in). Today he swears he didn't even think of hitting me, but he did admit to hitting his ex once, but he downplays it. He says she was hysterical, and he slapped her. Still, that is so not okay.

Today he was being his version of "nice", which is still nothing like the normal man I dated and knew when we were dating. It's just weird how different that man was. It's like he could portray himself as a totally different personality.

I guess what scares me is that we can be having a civil conversation, and he'll just get instantly irate and super angry, all out of proportion to anything that is said. He'll twist or misinterpret my words, almost deliberately, just so he can be mad. It makes me feel like talking to him at all is just something I shouldn't even attempt... .

Hi CB,

Waverider has pointed out that there are lots of  red-flag around, and there are!

You state that you were having a 'civil conversation' and he got 'instantly irate, and super angry.'

I understand that being outside something is different to being in it, and I understand how difficult things are for you at the moment. That said you are triggering your husband through JADE and the interactions you are choosing to continue using which are escalating his behaviours and putting you both at risk.

Things like 'cornering' him whilst he is dysregulated is dangerous.

Deleting your number from his phone, throwing cat litter, taking the keys to the car is provocative behaviour. It is like throwing down the gauntlet for a fight.

Your husband is sending out warning signs that he is scared and worried about how things are between you both, to the point where he is talking about the relationship not working. He is letting you know that things are not ok between you.

Your posts chart a slow but steady escalation of  red-flag behaviours from you both.

What is it that prevents you from withdrawing from these episodes of dysregulated behaviours given that you realise the current way of doing things is not working?

It sounds like everyone here is being very supportive and helping you sort this out.

I just wanted to chime in about the one thing that stood out to me:


Your attitude here sounds like you are mocking him for not escalating in an aggressive enough manner to actually get you to fear and back down.

It sounds like you are putting out vibes for an invitation for a "real" aggressive match with him.  (Not just kitty litter and water)

This worries me.

I realize that these are not words you expressed towards him, however, our language can be very telling and others can respond to this.

If this is a vibe that you are giving off... .

Nothing good will result.

Please be careful, not just with your behaviors, and words... .with your thoughts as well.

CB,

Please... .take big... .deep breath... .

You have shown the ability to grow and learn from the lessons on here... .that is/has changed some of the dynamics in your r/s... .which made your hubby uncomfortable... .so he "upped" his behavior to try and get you "back in line" with what he perceives as normal. 

At first look... .it seems he has succeeded in sucking you back in... .but at a higher level of conflict.   red-flag  

If there is nothing else you remember from this post... .please remember that you are the non and the more emotionally mature... .and will need to be the one to de-escalate a situation.

He does not possess the tools to de-escalate...

Please take a walk... .think of ways to "walk away" from conflict.  You don't need to "win"... .

 

FF

 

Ceruleanblue,

You might benefit from reading through a recent interaction I had with my wife... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281275.msg12657790#msg12657790

I'm not detecting much paranoia from your hubby... .honestly... still trying to figure him out a bit.

But... .what I hope you can see... is to not take "slights" personally... .and use the not taking personally approach to reduce conflict... .  My wife "suggested" or "hinted" she was not in love with me... .I had another woman on side... .probably several other things in there...

I don't acknowledge such things... .just let them drift by... .try to find emotions underneath to empathize with.

I used to "light it off... " very much like you seem to do now... .with similar results... .

 

Hang in there.

FF

Cerulean,

You have mentioned that your husband is Mexican and that you didn't know that there would be very frequent family gatherings that you were expected to attend.

Something else you might not be giving much attention to is the cultural significance of a woman disrespecting her husband's pride. As Sweetheart has said, ":)eleting your number from his phone, throwing cat litter, taking the keys to the car is provocative behaviour."

Now I think I'd personally have difficulty as a spouse of a traditional Mexican man. That said, I think you might be provoking him in ways you're not aware of. 

Hi CB.

I think you have the full support of this board that your relationship has elements of DV and that there is the potential for violence.

There seems to be a lot of focus right now on interactions involving your H... .(when space is probably needed)  that seem to be coming from a place in you that thinks it will be helpful or potentially corrective to engage with him over and over again ... .and you give reasonable examples of things that might be normal points of discussion or reasonable requests one might find being discussed in a normal range couple where pathology is NOT present.  

But, yours is not a normal range relationship.  Pathology is present.

I think maybe you keep forgetting this.  

And then you seem surprised angry over and over again when your bids to talk with your H aren't going over well.   ?

This continues even after you posted a reasonable concern that your husband's expressed fear of violence may have to do with his own growing rage or a projection of his own build-up of aggression. You received support and validation from this board for that possibility, we all said yes, that could very well be the case!  Be careful!

Perhaps right now would NOT be such a good time to keep going after your H about relationship issues.  We all agree there is a potential for violence, so does it make sense to engage in triggering material right now?  :)oes it make sense to increase time spent with him that is edgy and potentially explosive?

You are getting triggered. He is getting triggered.  

Perhaps right now would be a good time to give him some space and leave him alone, and to focus on doing things with other people.  Now might be a good time for both of you to take space, instead, and not about hashing through everything you don't like, taking trips, planning trips, attending family functions, who introduces whom, more togetherness, behavior change requests... .why now? Also, I want to warn you that venting is not a good idea.  To 'vent' over and over again about stuff that is upsetting, leads to more feelings of upset, not less... .that includes venting on this board.  It is good to participate on the board for sure, but venting can be counterproductive.  They have studied this in couples... .venting is not helpful.   It's okay to just stop and do your own thing for a while.  Stop.  Take a break from this.  Quit swimming in shark infested waters, it's okay to get out of the water and do other stuff for a while on dry land.    

I remember being "scared" to give space... .to have space.

People pushed me to do this... (have space)... .and it felt weird... .but I did it.  And now... .looking back... .it is part of what helped me "find myself" again.

Not at all saying I'm done and have arrived... .but space is no longer scary. 

Honestly... there was a while where the conflict was not as scary as the space.  I suspect that is where CB is right now... .

Then I would take space... .and make excuses... apologize  etc etc...

Now I take space... .and I let her have space... .

FF

I have been withdrawing from these situations? I also wasn't JADE-ing when he went off. It was a civil conversation, then whammo, he erupted, because I reminded him of my boundary that involves being f bombed. I walked out of the room after he went off. Not sure what I could have done differently.

Also, I DID NOT take the keys to the car, I simply set a boundary that I want my car to drive and not be stranded at home, he can drive his motorcycle.

Since I dumped kitty litter on the bed(and hear this, please, that was a one time incident after four years of physical incidents I received from this man), and that only happened due to his grabbing me. I WILL NOT be physically manhandled by this man any more: Hence me walking away. I'll take full responsibility for the kitty litter incident, but I only flung some at him because he grabbed me. I realized that incident is on ME, but I'm not going to beat myself up over ONE incident, after all I've been subjected to for years. I refuse to take blame that isn't mine anymore, from him, from anyone on here, anyone, period. 

I'm not the only one he "goes off" on, by any means. There was a time when I feared going out in public with him, due to him going off on random strangers. He hasn't done that lately, but that is the sort of thing I'm dealing with. Odd, random outbursts of anger, set off by things that most people would overlook... .

I am the non, but how do you live with someone you can't talk to AT ALL? The advice I seem to be getting is to just not trigger him? He has so many triggers, so how am I supposed to do that, and why is the responsibility all on ME to not trigger him, especially if I don't know what will trigger him? Of course I know certain things that will: talking about his girls, certain subjects I know to avoid. But so many, many times, it's just things I had no idea are an issue, like on our mini vacation. I'll think things are fine, only to find out they are not.

I don't feel things are escalating as much as everyone on here does, and I'm in the situation. Maybe that's because I've been with him in the past when things were much, much worse? I feel I could be dealing with extinction bursts, or even him acclimating to me being stronger. I'm also definitely not mocking him, as I hate when he does that to me. I was just making light of what he did because he's done so much worse to me, and he did it just to be crappy. I have to make light of all this chaos, or I'd go crazy.

 

Instead of living your life trying not to trigger him... .

Possibly focus on once he is triggered... .to give him a wide berth... .let him sooth himself.

It's a spectrum... .

On the one side... trying not to trigger... .and on the other side... living your life without "worrying" about him.

Right now... .for the sake of reduction in conflict... I recommend that you focus more on not triggering...

For now...

Reduce conflict... .get more communication going... .and then... .make decisions from there...

FF

the title of your thread sounds an alarm. it's about escalating anger and almost getting hit... .fear of violence has been a recent theme in several posts

the advice you are getting from me is to stay safe. it doesn't mean you never talk to your partner ever again... .that would be an exaggeration.    it means maybe take some space if you feel things are especially tense right now ... .your posts seem to indicate things are especially tense right now, but nothing stays the same forever... .

are we misunderstanding your posts?

my apologies if that is the case... .

Well, I definitely feel there was a misunderstanding about the car keys. I only set a boundary around my car because I was being isolated, and I got sick of not having my car to drive. I definitely did not take the keys, I just informed him he could drive his motorcycle, because I needed the car. He doesn't like it, but he's been respecting that boundary.

I agree that things are way more tense lately, but I feel it's because I'm stronger. I tell him all the time how much I want this to work out, and that I'm using tools I've learned, and I feel I could be getting some blow back because he liked things the way they were before. He liked when he felt totally dominant, and when I was so off balance that I'd give him his way, just out of fear.

I do feel the only way to ensure no dysreguation or sudden eruption of anger from him is to just not communicate. That's not an exaggeration, I just have fear of any communication with him at this time, because it seems to head south so fast sometimes. I feel like I'm beating a hasty retreat pretty often. I'm not withholding(that's his schtick), but I do feel like I need to occupy my time, and stay away from him, let him have his own time, just so he doesn't get triggered by ME. I seem to trigger him just by being around. I personally think he is back to resenting/hating/blaming me for the loss of his three adult daughters. It was what he did last time he left me. He says it isn't, but what he does is he starts missing them, wanting them back, he blames me(although I've done all I can to "fix" that situation), and then he starts creating drama, looking for reasons to be discontent, and then he left. He moved in with one of said daughters, and as soon as he left me, they all welcomed him back with open arms. I'd take four of his son any day, but his daughters are just mean, controlling, personality disordered, meanies.

I'm at a total loss as to what to do NOW. I'm not sure how we got here, as this started when things were going so well. And I'd like to take a break, but that seems to trigger him too. I suggested I take our coming vacation alone, and he wouldn't hear of it.

For now, I'd practice the art of doing nothing, except getting to intimately know yourself

I think this is not helping... .

Drop relationship talk... ."do" the relationship more.

So... .be nice to him.  Take him a glass of ice water... .pick something up special for him (and you)... .if he doesn't want to eat it... you go ahead and enjoy your treat.

Only talk about r/s stuff in counseling or under guidance of a counselor... .

My overarching reaction to your situation is that your husband is most likely on "stimulus overload" from you and can't figure it out... .so he is acting out... .

Try to pick a way you are going to behave... sleep... .drive... .text... .clean the litter box... .etc etc etc... .and stick with it  NO MATTER WHAT... .for 30 days... .no changes... .and see what happens.

This couple with dropping relationship talk... .will most likely calm things... .a lot...

Thoughts... .?

Is it possible you are trying too hard?  Can you focus the energy back on you that you are focusing on him?

FF

It may seem like I'm focusing on him, but I feel I'm really focusing on not setting him off, thereby making MY life better. lol

I was probably JADE-ing when I told him I'm using tools I've learned from T, and reading up over the years(not just from this site). I told him because I wanted him to know I'm doing the best I can, and I'm being very conscious of choosing my words, so he doesn't feel attacked, or need to be defensive. At this point, I don't feel I can say anything to him, no matter what it's about, never mind it being about US.

We've only been talking about our relationship in regards to when he acts out. So what you are saying, is if he tries to initiate a talk of "why he did or said that", to just tell him I don't want to talk about it? Heck, at this point I even fear when he later apologizes(which he sometimes does), because I'm afraid I'll look wrong, or accept his apology wrong.

Ceruleanblue, what are your interests other than anything to do with your H?

:) :) :) :)

Hey... .I've been mixed up before... .being in a r/s with a pwBPD traits will do that... .

But... .take a couple deep breaths... .drink some cold water... .and read your post... .

You are assuring us that you are not focusing on him... .because you are focusing on him... .thereby making your life better... .

Now... .keep enjoying the cool water... .and chuckle to yourself... .

Please don't focus on someone else... .to help yourself... .focus on yourself to help yourself... .your hubby will sort his own issues out.

There is a difference in avoiding inflammatory things... .that "nons" think are inflammatory... .and most on this site think are inflammatory.

Sometimes you need to live your life... .in a healthy way... .and let them be inflamed... .

If they are upset by your healthy decisions... .that is their issue... .

FF

That did give me a chuckle. I think I do focus on him, and a means to protect myself. I'm always gauging which way the wind is blowing, then adjust my sails accordingly. You are basically saying, stop doing that? Do what is right for me, and if he has issue with it, that's HIS issue?

I guess I'm just worried about the inflamed part. There have been times I've done what I want, like once I didn't attend a family get together of his, although he went. It was awful after, and he never lets me live it down. I feel I either pay the price up front, or I pay it for years. I guess I just have to learn to ignore his upset? Don't JADE when he starts mentioning it, and just go on about my business.

I have been living my life, but I have also been spending a lot of time worrying about why things went off the rails in the last month or so. I'm going to give myself permission to just stop worrying.

If he gets upset by me being more independent, or me making choices that honor me, that is his issue. I'd love to think he'd "sort out his own issues" as you stated. I know it's only on him to do so. I can support him and validate him, but I can't keep giving him his own way out of fear all the time. I agree, I have to live my own life, on my terms, not just his.

Our MC tonight really addressed with BPDh that my feelings matter too, and that marriage is about two people being allowed their feelings. We went over how to deal with conflicts, and got some good ideas. I didn't say it in MC, but I'm just not going to address any issues with BPDh. I'm going to let things cool down, and enjoy the next couple weeks, one of which will be spend on vacation.

You are putting all of your pennies in his jar.  He is controlling everything.

You may

think that you are standing up for yourself, but you are really reacted to him.

I don't have any suggestions, perhaps you used all of them.

His ex wife tried for 23 years, and she didn't succeed. 

I remember once after my ex threw a cup at me that left a scar on my face and a big dent in the wall, (yes, that is how hard he threw it), he said to me, are you going to use this to make me stay with you. 

You are in a toxic relationship. 

In no way am I telling you what to do.  Reading your other post though, I think you H is trying to have sex with your daughter, and he already got rid of your son. 

Sorry, but those are my thoughts. 

May be totally off. 

It is your life, and it is your decision.

Jynx

Well, I can agree it is toxic at times. I try to remember thought that I'm dealing with someone who has a mental illness, and he didn't ask to have it. That doesn't excuse it, and I definitely have moments of feeling duped, but I can have compassion for him too. I guess I feel to blame for not getting totally to the point of "stop making it worse", although I'm definitely trying to get there.

I'm so sorry you had things thrown at you. I've never had that happen to me, but BPDh also has a noticeable scar from something his ex threw at him. He also has knife scars on his body, and she hit him with a hammer in his sleep. All awful things, but knowing him now as I do, I'm sure she was provoked. I'd leave before I was tempted to hit someone with a hammer. Geesh, I value my own freedom more than that, and she's lucky he never filed charges. She once asked him why he didn't. If he can be believed.

I'd love to be able to talk to her, but I tried that once, and she flipped out on me. I can't even imagine how two such volatile people ever lived so long together. Their kids tell horror stories, but mostly about her, oddly enough. They admit their Dad can get scary angry though. Wish I'd known that prior to marriage.

I'm truly working on being less reactive. I used to be much, much better at it. It's a hard line to find between being a doormat, and standing up for yourself via boundaries. And it's a mixed bag because there have been a couple times(rare times) where I yelled at him, or got indignant, and he backed off, or started briefly showing more respect. When he thinks I'm weak, he pounces, and it feels like he comes in for the kill.

I'm pretty sure he knows he has zero chance of having sex with my daughter. She hasn't ever even had sex with any of her boyfriends, and a few tried to pressure her. She treats BPDh like a father figure/best guy friend thing, but he does act weird around her, but I've heard he was the same with his own girls. I KNOW if there'd ever been a hint of impropriety, his ex would have had his arrested, and his kids would have shouted it from the rooftops. I'm not sure what his angle is, whether it's fantasies, wanting admiration, or what, I just know it's weird.

At this point, I do feel like I've tried an awful lot of different approaches. Now, I'm thinking less might be more. Focus on ME, my kids, and what I want, just might be in order. I'll still do nice things for him, keep it light, but I'm done doing much more than that.

The more times you do this and uphold boundaries about your choices, the less individual issues can be held up as "examples of being difficult", as it becomes the norm.

The problem is not the individual issues, but the precedent of not upholding your needs and right to choose.

If you want changes to stick then they have to become the new norm. One offs don't amount to much

My life principle now is I am not obliged to meet anyones perceived need, I am free to CHOOSE to meet people requests and wishes. It stops you being taken for granted. Knowing that you have chosen your action makes it easier to live with.

I sense that you are often backed into justifying pressurized reactions, as your own chosen actions after the event.

If you feel pressured then, then that should stack the odds towards non compliance. It becomes an instinctive red flag. It gives your gut feeling a say. Do not underestimate gut feelings, it is your conscience shouting to be heard

Yes... .so... .he lets out a rant... .talks for 3 minutes solid... .tosses out lots of "bait" to fight... .but it's not really abusive... .so you listen.

You very calmly say... .thank you for sharing... .I'll have to consider this new information... .(you are slowing it down)...

You give him a light pat on the shoulder and continue on to the next room to do what you had planned...

Less is more... .


FF

 Hi,after reading your thread,i thought of the time a few months ago when my therapist gave a me an assignment,to say "No" three times in the next week,and to my supprise three things came up that i was able to use the word "No",best wishes to you.

Yes, I am realizing that I do a lot of things because he wants or expects me to. I end up resenting it. I don't think I would resent it if we had a more normal relationship, but things are so off balance, that I do. I don't feel as if he's willing to do anything he doesn't want, no matter what, so why does he expect it of me? Once, in the history of four years, I asked him to scoop the litter box, because I wasn't feeling well, and the answer was an absolute "no".

I often get "no". Now, everyone has the right to say no, but he does not seem to believe in compromise, yet he expects total compliance. My friends say he wants a puppet, and that's funny because our MC said something about that when he was explaining to BPDh that I too have a right to my feelings. Something about no one should want their partner to just be a puppet, but actually, BPDh would love that!

I'm going to start working on saying "no", because lately I've been too afraid to listen to what I want. I've been too scared by his "move out" threats, and him starting to say all the things he said before he left last time. I can't let my fear of him leaving paralyze me.

Today was a great day. I spent it with my son, and had most of the day with him. I didn't even get home until midnight, and BPDh barely woke up. He did ask me where I'd been, but went right back to sleep. I just hate that I can have such a great day on my own, or with one of my kids, but it's so hard to have a great day with BPDh. There is always put downs, criticism, sarcasm, anger or something that sort of ruins the day for me. Maybe I just have to rethink it "ruining" my day?

:thought: |iiii

Yes, it's putting a whole lot of emphasis on him being the keeper of your happiness.  


I'm going to ask a serious question or two... . :)o you sincerely believe in your heart of hearts that H made you kick out your son?  :)o you sincerely believe in your heart of hearts that he'd like to make the moves on your daughter?

These two topics have come up more than once, is why I ask, and they're both pretty provocative.

How else could you end up not resenting it?

Resentment is a poison that "colors" everything... .it's in your power to get rid of it... .

FF

Resentment is a consequence of serial frustrations which are rarely countered by any positives. So they compound, each one priming you for the next. This leads to escalating triggers until something snaps.

This is why resentment MUST be addressed as it is ultimately a relationship killer, causing you to do something destructive and outside of your normal values. This leads to disappointment in yourself. ie it backfires on you.

Yes, I get that, resentment is a relationship killer. I watch/read a lot of John Gottman, and he did lots of research on what kills a relationship. The issue for me though is, how do I address issues with someone who resents a simple question? Any time I try to address anything, no matter how soft my approach, or soft language used, he still gets mad, feels accused, and it just goes south.

How do you not have resentment, when the reason for resentment can't be addressed? When you don't have a working partnership where an issue comes up, and you address it together?

Oh, and I didn't kick my son out, BPDh kicked both my son and daughter out one week prior to our move. Our last week together as a family. Plus, BPDh would only allow my daughter to come back home for that week, not my son, although I did ask him. Therefore, I did not allow my daughter back either, that would have been unfair. At first my son was allowed the choice of switching schools and moving with us. After BPDh threw my kids out though, he said he refused to live with my son. Plus, BPDh broke our agreement to say in my hometown until my son graduated. I waited for his son to graduate, before BPDh came to live with ME, but he wouldn't do the same.

So, YES, I do feel that BPDh put me in a position to make a choice, and even our T pretty much agrees with this, I feel. BPDh admits in MC that he refused to live with my son any longer, and that he did kick both my kids out. He also tells me he is not sorry about it. My daughter is living with us now, of course. For quite a few months I had serious hurt and anger over this, but I think I've mostly worked through it, but I have to say it changed how I regard BPDh. I've always thought he did impetuous things due to his BPD, but I think this wasn't impetuous. Even after he calmed down, he refused to talk about it, and he just told me "how it was going to be". No compassion. No compromise. His way, or no way. HE put me in a position to choose, and neither was an ideal option.

I actually don't think BPDh would ever do anything inappropriate with my 19 year old daughter. I wonder about what he could be thinking, but I feel if he'd been going to do more than think, he'd have done it by now. Plus, he acted in this same manner with his girls. It's like he wants attention from young girls, and he sort of puts them in the "wife" role, in all regards other than sex. He's nice to her, he gives her her own way all the time, he teases and plays with her, he gives her his undivided attention. If we are out together, he'll choose to sit or walk with him, and I mostly get ignored. His family has commented, and so has my family. It's just odd, to say the least. He has a clean record, and I fully trust my daughter, but it is weird. I play second fiddle, for sure.

I don't even think THIS weird issue has anything to do with BPD, per se.

Can you consider that your issue of feelings of resentment needs to be addressed independent of him, or independent of anyone else? 

Which leads to FF Q:  How else can you end up not resenting?

This would be great thing to chat about with a T... .and work on... .

It's not an easy fix... .resentment can hopefully be downgraded to frustration... .then irritation... .then... .it's not your problem.

This will take a lot of work... .consistency... .and CHOICES on your part.

Step 1:  You have a choice to deal with the situation as it is... .or not.  Don't resent that... .feel empowered by that... .feel freed by the choices you have... .focus on what you have... .not what you don't... .

Step 2:  Once you feel less trapped... .more empowered... .use this strength to make more deliberate choices... .be less reactive... .

Eventually you and your r/s will be "spiraling up" to a better place... .

Right now the vibe I am getting is that it is spiraling down and that you feel somewhat trapped... .

Consistent exercising of your power over you (NOT YOUR HUSBAND) will help you be free... .

FF

Language matters... .it drives the way you think.

The issue of your husband having the power over your kids and their living seems like a core issue... .I feel the resentment through the computer... .it's palpable... .  YOU need to do something with that... .

You had just as much power as he did... .You had choices

Your kids had choices... .

Your husband had choices... .

This is hard stuff... . Blame is toxic 

Blame is a cousin of resentment... .

Blame is many times used to avoid responsibility.

This dynamic of decision making about kids needs to be changed.

It seems he is acknowledging his errors in counseling... .what action will be taken to take a step in the right direction

Just a step... .

FF