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A test of my insecurities again tonight. Messaged my Ex asking if she was ok. (Was angry after a recent Therapy session). Just a simple conversation about how she was and what she had been up to. She then pokes at me by saying "Been seeing an old friend a lot lately. Been mostly hanging out at his place". Now out of all the things she could have said about her day, she has to pull out another guy and throw him in my face.


I acted like I was not fazed by this and just said "I hope he treats you right". Inside my heart has taken a sink. But I'm doing my best to keep my head held up.


Update: I had stated that I had made a new friend and was doing a few things in my life. She asked me "So who is your new friend? smiley" The red flag came up immediately and I said "Is that something you really want to hear?" and "Why do I have a feeling this is going to take a bad turn?" (Should have listened to my gut) but she said "Try me smiley" so I told her that my new friend was a girl and we had just met recently.

Instantly she turned into Mrs. Hyde and told me she was never going to talk to me again and was out of my life forever. That she regrets ever meeting me and I was the biggest mistake of her life. To  please read               | off and never speak to her again.

Did your news to her come before hers to you, or after?

Her throwing the person in your face seems like she wanted to bait you into jealousy. When you replied "Hope he treats you right"  she probably  took this to mean you are okay with her new person and not jealous... .she may have wanted you to be jealous.

    I have heard of BPs telling the ex to go out with new people, encouraging it, and then when it happens the BP gets jealous and rages.

I've been through this enough but never did it back, sounds like you two are still enmeshed and headed to recycle! 

Recycling is only good if it helps the environment!

Thank you for all the replies. My news came after hers. I did try and deter her from the subject and didn't reveal my new friend was a girl. She said "Try me" and I just sighed and let her have what she wanted. She wanted me to go pick up my life, said she wouldn't care if I talked to other women, said there was no way we'd get back together after a vicious push/pull cycle that left me destroyed.


I don't regret telling her this. I love this girl. But if she can't handle the honesty and answers given, then she shouldn't ask the questions. I'm not the type to hide things from people.

Woke up this morning after being told she was "out of my life" and I was "the biggest mistake of her life". She has initiated some contact saying "It's funny because I've been missing you a lot lately. I guess you haven't felt the same about me"


What am I expecting going forward. A Chase? Gritty details about what she's up to with her old "friend"?

I was expecting a cold shoulder for some time. But she hasn't been out of my life for about half a day.

 

Mistomaple,

You are on the staying board... .so I'm making an assumption here that you want to continue a relationship with this person.

The key is to communicate with her in healthy ways... .even if she is not doing the same to you. 

She may say things to get you to "react" or act out... .as an odd way of seeing if you care.  Please let those things pass by.

Can you invite her to coffee... .just a quick get together?  I am not a fan of trying to sort things out via text... .or even phone.  So much "feeling" gets lost.

Best to meet in person... .but don't "chase" her... .enjoy being with her.  Instead of talking about the r/s... ."do" it... .share an enjoyable conversation... .leave it at that.

Repeat a few days later.

Thoughts?

I'm a bit new to your story... so my advice is very general.  However... .getting a "friend" thrown in your face is about a reaction... .an invitation to fight... .or some kind of drama.    Don't bit on it...

I would keep your friends private... .hiding and privacy are very different things.

FF

Trust me. I'd love to meet up with her and spend some time together. Probably should have mentioned that our relationship was Long Distance, so meeting isn't really an option. I'm going on a trip to her home at the end of next month, but her wanting to see me is another question.


I can see the fear of abandonment coming through and the nasty reaction it brings with it. Now she tells me that she despises me and that her and her family hate me. That she never loved me and was only using me this entire time to make her feel better. She also said she burned all the gifts I gave her, deleted all of our photos from FB etc and said she's sleeping with another man.


I've not taken any of this personally. It's just left me with a migraine.

Just hit home today what she has done. The woman I have all the love in the world for has tried to verbally destroy me, thrown her sex life in my face and burned the gifts I gave her then went on Facebook to gloat about it and how she feels liberated and renewed. I don't take it personally, but to see her friends and even an old Ex of hers encouraging this act is awful.

I have forgiveness in my heart, but right now the shock of it all has angered me. One of those gifts had a great sentimental value to me and to know that it was treated with such disrespect while I cherish everything she has ever given me.

Misto wrote

thrown her sex life in my face and burned the gifts I gave her then went on Facebook to gloat about it and how she feels liberated and renewed. I don't take it personally, but to see her friends and even an old Ex of hers encouraging this act is awful.

---I can understand your feelings. 

----Why is she throwing her sex life in your face?  To try to make you jealous?

---Does she think that by being with someone else you wouldn't return? Or would you still be with her in the future despite this?

---Their reactions are extreme---publicly she is gloating, but eventually she may privately want you back

---How do you know her friends are encouraging her? Have they written on facebook? 

---If they truly encourage her, it is possible she gave them a distorted version of the breakup, favoring her and devaluing you? 

Mistomaple I totally understand your need to make them feel your pain by giving a taste of their own medicine because I've done it to a smaller degree. It back fires in numerous ways, 1 being that they then up the anti and 2 and the most important is that your giving her more reason to feel your untrustworthy. I think I have a few BPD traits(not nearly to my BPD ex's extreme) but with my other ex partner the only thing that helped me was when he remained exactly the same about his feelings about me, no games, no mixed signals ect. Your making a rod for your own back their and causing yourself additional heartache down the road. BPD is a serious mental illness not an ability to control reaction like you are possibly able to.

My intentions were never to add any more logs to the fire.

shatra. I believe she threw it in my face in the heat of the moment. Usually when we talk there will be subtle hints of a "friend" she's hanging around with. She keeps it very secretive and sometimes mentions that it's a male for good measure. I don't know why she feels the need to do this. I'd ask her how her day is and she will automatically go straight to "Oh. I'm hanging out with an old friend or I'm just taking to a friend on Skype or just hanging with a friend at "his" house. I'd still find it in my heart to forgive her in the future. My emotions are just heated right now. It is possible she gave her friends a distorted version, but that doesn't stop their replies to her post being hurtful, like setting peoples things on fire is a big joke.


Lou. I was baited into this. I didn't go looking for trouble. She mentioned her friend and I acted like I didn't care (Even though I did). Then she insisted on knowing who I'd been talking to. I'm an honest person and I'd rather warn her for her own good and then be honest instead of hiding it and sounding like I'm up to something.

Is there any way to remedy this or is it the old saying "Time is a healer"?

Oh absolutely Mistomaple from my experience it makes not much odds what you do until they seek help.

Personally I feel your best stance when faced with situations like that is to simply say 'I love you so why would you think it's acceptable that I would want to hear this, your hurting my feelings and I wish for you to have more respect for me'. You have got to remember this person is disordered, they love the pain you throw at them because it's all they know, like a kind of familiarity and what they subconsciously feel worthy of but long term if your relationship ever has a chance of working then I say be honest. More importantly be true to yourself and set yourself up for the fact that this person could be gone at anytime . But yes just ignore her for a bit, act happy etc and pretend your moving on and that usually makes them return sooner but she'll be back in my opinion x please gain as much info about BPD as possible so your mentally strong, it has the ability to seriously ruin your life

Thank you Lou. I appreciate your insight and guidance. She is seeking help and I wish all the best for her journey. It's very hard to ignore someone that you'd give your life for if you had to. I'll use my friends, this support community, my family and every piece of knowledge and coping tool I can to help me through this time. I feel the rage inside me starting to calm and turn into sadness. Not sadness for what she did to me, but sadness for the pain she goes through, that she feels actions like this are the only way.


There is an amazing girl in there and I want her to blossom and shine one day so the world can see her beauty as a person.

I know you do Mistomaple, sadly it's what we all want but chances of them/you achieving this outcome without intensive therapy is sadly near on impossible. I can only recommend you work on yourself. Please believe me when I say if she is BPD your not going to fix her infact you'd have more chance of fixing her by letting her go. You will never understand what is in her head because she doesn't.

Sending you love x

I've been doing more reading and research, trying to find out why my Ex keeps things inside and refuses to talk about them and why she gets so defensive when I point things out. The conclusion I came to was "Shame". She doesn't like talking about the past and avoids me because she's supressing and trying to get rid of it because she is unable to feel guilt and take responsibility. I do believe that the things she said and how she handled he situation has been another blow to her sense of self.


So if I'm right and this Shame can cause a pwBPD to do everything they can to avoid and bury. What is it that makes them want to come back and reach out to you? Is it simply the fear of being abandoned? Do they bury the shame first and then come looking?

Hey Mistomaple, obvs I can't speak for every BPD this is only what I made of my own... .

Due to the BPDs inability to internalise bad aspects of themselves (anger, jealousy, etc etc) they project whatever it is they feel onto another, for example... BPD is angry he can't internalise this as his fault so he projects it on to 'Lou'! He says 'Lou is this that and the other and she is why I am angry'! 'Lou needs to be punished/discarded because she is the reason I feel this way'! This worked the same way when it was also something nice. Lou says to BPD 'I love you' BPD feels scared, nervous, angry etc so BPD thinks 'I feel bad/angry because of Lou, Lou is trouble, she's untrustworthy, Lou has to be discarded'. 'Lou is the reason for all these emotions I can't handle'.

BPDs fear engulfment as well as abandonment.

All of this was never actually about what Lou done but how the BPD felt.

You are no longer what they really want because look at what you have just made them feel! To a non we can see how abandonment can make him react but to a BPD he's not actually thinking I don't want to be abandoned at this point, he's thinking 'get the f@ck away from me your trouble'. So all the while I think, I need to reassure him I won't abandon him but that is not even in his psychy even though it's the underlying cause.

However, the recycle... .In my experience a BPD will only ever return if they have something they want from you. (Emotionally, physically, financially, sexually, kids etc) If they get a better offer then they are off, no exception  (well until they devalue the next person for the same thing and you might be an option again).

During a recycle... his emotions settle, they lose sight of the way you made them feel and remember the nice way you made them feel. They haven't really buried the shame because it was never really their fault anyway and anyways enough time has passed for you to hopefully forget what they did. Or the other guy has upset the BPD now so they need you. But my overall guess with my BPD is that he still wants something from me and until he gets it from someone else who he deems better than me he will always return to me so therefor he has to split me white again.

When they return, don't be overly affectionate, don't ask them why they left, don't mention BPD just act like the BPD did nothing wrong! Yes that's right... .coz in my experience you try to hold them accountable and they'll just disappear again. You are their human punch bag.

The good thing is they'll thank you for all this by discarding you again soon! And all the while your burying your emotions because you don't want to 'set them off' and leave again and before you know it your mental health is fooked and they leave you anyway because you can't give them what they want now, your weak and pathetic!

Do not let that happen to you! If you stay then read read read! Never personalise anything they do and be hyper vigilant for them abandoning you. Then ask yourself why you want her? X

Sorry I'm rambling and of course this is not directed at every BPD. Hope I answered your question? I could be in my BPDs mind most times I swear but it's hard to write it all down it becomes second nature... you begin to think like them

Yes. It did answer my question. So even if I did get a recycle and walked the line perfectly while using the tools and knowledge to take care of myself. I'd still get discarded again and be right back here where I am no matter what?


I guess what I've learned from the boards when it comes to sticking around is that the second time around you're carrying the additional weight of everything that went wrong the first time on top of new things that arise. Read, validate, depersonalize etc. Then when they do distance themselves during devalue/engulfment, you don't ask questions, don't pursue and disconnect. You simply look after you and detach emotionally from anything they could be doing during that time, no matter how wrong you would perceive it.


Is that a fair outlook when it comes to staying?

Maybe someone else can jump in and help out here as I think you have to follow your own path but... .With my BPD I tried being totally 'perfect' according to the literature I read and guess what it never worked! Why because it's impossible to do and I mean impossible!

I always imagine my BPD as a ruler, 0 is engulfment and 100 is abandonment. He has to stay at 50 on this ruler or he triggers but sometimes it's not always you who triggers them yet you can get the blame for that trigger in their mind.

With regard to your question about 'second time around' to me it makes no odds what you do they will find away to devalue you anyway once the feel engulfed or perceive abandonment so it's a pointless task thinking that you should of prevented it first time.

None of it makes sense to the non and guess what it's not supposed to! I have yet to come across a person involved with a BPD who doesn't have to be a doormat most of the time myself included!

Remember it's not about you, therefor it's not under your control. You DO NOT have the ability to prevent their BPD behaviour.

I think you'll get a recycle because she is still acting out her BPD with you. If she had something better she wouldn't play ball she'd just drop you.

But yes misto your on the right track on attempting to keep her if she's like my BPD. Please don't internalise it as you though if it doesn't work!

Lou wrote--

enough time has passed for you to hopefully forget what they did. Or the other guy has upset the BPD now so they need you. But my overall guess with my BPD is that he still wants something from me and until he gets it from someone else who he deems better than me he will always return to me so therefor he has to split me white again.

----Yes, and I would add enought time has passed for them to do a 180 degree shift, and split you as all white.  Sometimes they split you white and then return---otherr times they need to return and thus as you described, will then split you white.  Also, they might not even deem the replacement as "better than" you---they might even be aware the replacement is not as good as you. It's just that they haent split the replacement black -----yet!

Yes what I meant Shatra is that 'they perceive the replacement is better than you' not that they actually are therefor that person would still be white! X

It's not about the partner doing everything right, until a pwBPD gets better he/she is doomed to repeat the cycle over and over again.

Now the non could adapt and make it "work". As a non has the capacity to adapt and change, they will be responsible for adjusting to BPD situations 100% of the time. A r/s with a pwBPD is truly a lifestyle.

I had some other questions that I needed answers to and you have all been excellent at helping me and I appreciate every bit of it.


As I stated previously, my relationship with my Ex was Long Distance. I feel that this was good and bad. Good in the sense that we did have separation time to cool off and weren't constantly around each other (minus playing online games together and messaging, Skype etc.) and the Bad was the unknown and insecurities that came with it (Her asking what I was up to all the time and imaginary triggers)


My Ex's disorder came through a lot more when I wasn't physically present. Almost 99% of the dysfunction happened when we were apart and were the hardest times for me. However, whenever I travelled over to see her, it was like there was nothing wrong with her at all. There was a time when she came over to stay with me for 2 weeks and left 1 week early because she didn't want to be around anyone and another she didn't want me to come over after I had already taken time off and bought the ticket (It caused a huge prolonged battle) but in the end she finally let me come see her. As soon as I had arrived she looked perfectly normal and was smiling and chatting to me like any other time. She was a little more quiet and distant at times, but generally she was happy I was there and said that she was happy I came and cried when I had to leave again. Even her mother commented that when we are together that she changes from how she usually is.


I'm still piecing together what caused these shifts when really I'm no better than anyone else and certainly not stronger than her feelings?

1. pwBPD have trouble with object constancy - it's like a severe case of out-of-sight-out-of-mind. It's difficult to imagine the person exists when not physically in front of them, therefore they might call constantly, need reassuring texts, etc

2. Long distance is an ideal situation - it let's them assert some control and it will not trigger a fear of engulfment. Or rather, it is less likely to trigger that fear.

3. Fear of engulfment - they fear that whatever identity they hold will be annihilated if they get too close. They will PUSH you away. As they push more the fear of abandonment kicks in. They start to pull you in.

4. Mirroring  - during the idealization phase they copy what they like about us. It can feel like we've met our soulmates and have everything in common. Once they see we've got flaws like everyone else in the world, they will quickly devalue us. Did you have a chance to see your ex with a different group of friends? They will act differently with everyone, I can see why her mom would say something like that.

5. Idealization - the pwBPD is looking for that perfect partner to make their lives better. This is an impossible quest and at one point the idealization will start to crack and soon we'll be devalued. Hard.

6. Intense emotions - pwBPD feel emotions to the extreme. Or rather they feel one extreme emotion at a time, only to have it swept away by the next set of them. That's why when they're raging, there's no soothing them. It could be swept away a few minutes later and it could be as if nothing happened.

I am the same in that I have a long distance relationship. In my experience it has not yet worked to my favour. Initially it worked for him because it meant that we stayed in the idealisation stage for a longer period. This was due to him not really feeling secure enough with me or knowing me well enough to devalue me. His BPD triggering was not as bad at this point just odd little BPD red flags,

Once he started to develop feelings (I gauged this by how bad his BPD started playing up) he started devaluing me because I wasn't able to give him what he needed. Examples are... .he couldn't have control over me, I wasn't able to sooth his emotions, I wasn't able to be accessed for sex etc.

These things triggered his BPD more and he desperately wanted not to need me. Needing me made him feel like he was defected and made his BPD worse. Consequently he was on a mission to split me for anything he could find.

However I will say that it's been harder for him to split me because he's not constantly around me so I know he's been less abusive to me than he would be if he had permeate access. This could potentially mean that he would have discarded me a good while ago had he lived closer or it could of meant that his BPD might have settled because I was physically there to reassure him. This I can't yet answer.

I do know though that when we were together he was obsessed with me even after the initial devaluation but as soon as I'd leave him he'd trigger again.

Sad thing is I would have moved to be closer to him but his engulfment fears prevented that. The minute I spoke about being closer to each other that triggered him to.

Soo over all I'd say better to be in closer proximity with my BPD but I would have got more abuse and maybe an earlier final discard!

Each person is different even though a lot of BPD behaviour is the same so in your case it's hard to say. They actually seem to have their own pattern so watch for it.

The mood swings are mostly stemmed from abandonment although I do think they have normal moodiness to which I guess leaves us guessing yet again if it's BPD triggered.

I read a great post, I will put it up. I believe it to be insightful.

Thank you both. I've been reflecting over the past day or so about exactly where I am at this moment and adding in your insights and stories into the mix to make more sense of it. I know I'm interested and want to stay and try again, but then I ask myself "What exactly is "staying" in my situation?


If improving a relationship with someone with BPD, the recycling process and inevitable second discard is pretty much their terms and there isn't really much tactic to getting painted white again and getting back in for another round, then what is the definition of "staying?" when you're already out?


If the cycle is idealize, devalue, split and discard on and endless loop, then what exactly is "stay?"


I know my own reasons for wanting to stay put and wait. But if I have pretty much no control or say in the present then staying isn't really much choice either.

Ironically Mistomaple you and I are pretty much at the same cross roads. Unfortunately I have been at this crossroads a few times already but previously I was of the mind set... .'next cycle I'll try this and see if it works'! Nothing worked and believe me I tried every which way.

So here I am now, I'm not sure if I'm in a normal BPD relationship or I'm not in one at all? Maybe someone else could answer this for us both? Is this just what it is to be in a long distance r/s with a BPD?

I would give anything to be with my BPD as I truly adore him but I have resided myself to the fact that I have no control over it, either I accept the scraps he throws me or I get out! X

I agree with you 100% Lou. It feels like you're playing a game of Chess and have no moves to make. I'm different because I have an opportunity coming up myself. I'm actually travelling to her home country on a short vacation with my friend for a few days. I was planning to go to her house and see if she wanted to go for a Coffee or bite to eat and maybe ease things over and for myself just to "feel her out". My problem right now is that our last conversation left on a really bad note of rage and I'm unsure if it was just that or it was genuine. So here I am again hoping for a message, even though the only time we have spoke recently is when I have made the first move.


My fear is that I reach out and get blamed and hurt again. My other fear is that I do nothing and wait, then maybe she thinks it really is over and then when I see her face to face, I get a cold welcome. Scary stuff

My bet for you to get the best outcome is by triggering her abandonment by appearing to move on. Then call her when your in her town being nice and asking to hook up, with my BPD it always eased his BPD hearing my voice as opposed to text. That's the best I would hope to obtain with mine. Good luck, regardless of what anyone tells you your going to have to follow your own journey x

Yeah. I think that was going to be my plan of action anyway. I don't think there is any real downside of doing nothing for the time being. She is in Therapy and has told me she doesn't want to engage in any relationship until she can manage herself better, so I don't see any replacement coming anytime soon if she sticks to this commitment. (Not that it helps me much either).


This bad "what if" stuff keeps coming into my mind. But then again all those "what ifs" could still happen even if we were "talking"

Replacement or not, I think listening to her wishes is a good choice... .BPD or not

I know Mistomaple I feel you dilemma and pain! Follow your instinct...

The horrible thing is Neveragainthanks is that they don't always mean what they. My BPD used to say 'it's over, I don't want you, I want to move on' the next conversation was 'why don't you fight for me harder'! All head recking stuff that never ends!

Yes, it's very complicated.

"I hate you -- don't leave me"

"Keep your distance a little closer"

etc

Don't you love it how BPDs want to have their cake and eat it too... .its like its ok for them to find a replacement, but as soon you begin to move on or talk to other people... .they rage at you. Especially if you are their primary source, one who has been in their life, in a dysfunctional relationship with them for years... .It has happened to me recently.

I mean, they are carrying on in this triangle with you, them and whoever... .circling back to you... .like a vulture... .trying to throw themselves in front of you as you move forward... .but they swear up and down they do not even care about you... .so funny. Its really abusive to us as non BPD ex spouses or significant others... .its like we care about them and have this emotional attachment to them that they could never reciprocate. Leaving a BPD, even if it is them who left you in the first place, is like pulling yourself out of the jaws of life.

Just a little update.


Unexpectedly I came home tonight to find a message from my Ex on my phone after several days of NC. She said "Will stay a strange idea that the last time in the airport was the last time. That we wouldn't see each other again after that, and at that point we didn't know"


I replied "Thoughts are only true if you believe them"


She then said "I had some bad news at the doctor today. An answer I've been looking for for years. All I thought about is how I wanted to tell you"


I said "You're free to tell me if you wish to"


She said "It doesn't matter... ." and I said "Ok"


At that point I left well enough alone and mentioned nothing of what had happened, her raging, burning my things, what she's been up to. None of that. After some silence she said "Right. I'll leave you alone."


It's not much, but that feels like a little personal victory. Simple and clean conversation with no expectation and no drama. :)

Yay that's fab news Misto!

How do you feel?

Honestly, I would be tempted to reach out a little here? Maybe something along the lines of 'I'm here for you anytime you wish to talk, you know I care'. I think her last message is saying to you... .'you don't care about me'. Obviously up to you and I would hate for her to just be seeking some validation and then go again so your shout but good luck x

Actually she just messaged me again with "I guess you found someone else and have no feelings for me anymore and don't feel the need to talk to me"

I said "I'm still here. Just getting ready for bed"

She said "That doesn't answer my question"

I said "The answer is Nope"

She said "Nope, as in you don't have feelings for me anymore?"


I simply replied "No"



Then she finally wanted to tell me what the news from the Doctor. Apparently her Thyroid doesn't work. So piece by piece her body has started to not do what it's supposed to and it's made her change into a person she's not. Made her cold and angry. Apparently they did a bunch of tests that show she has a chronic illness and needs lifelong treatment.


I pass no judgment. But I think there is some fabrication there. (I'll just smile and nod) 

Ha your a smooth operator, keep up the good work :) happy for you x

Nice! Hypothyroidism is completely treatable, granted you have to take replacement hormones (thyroid) for the rest of your life.

I like your responses. I wouldn't even have said nope and just changed the subject or not replied for awhile.

I wanted to point out -- sure hypothyroidism could effect behavior, but see how she shifts her blame to it?

I do see how she has shifted blame onto this (Better that than me). She sent me another message in the middle of the night that said "Sorry. I didn't want to wake you. I just wanted you to know that I love you so much. I love you as much as the first time we met"


It made me smile, but I didn't let my feelings get carried away. Like my Ex said to me once before "I'm like a Wild horse and get scared when I feel cornered. Approach me with a carrot"


On the point that you said you wouldn't have said nope and changed the subject or not replied. I tried both of these things before and just kept being bombarded with messages "You still haven't answered my question", "Why won't you just answer the question" and "I answer all of your questions and you can't answer mine?"


That question she asked wasn't that tough and my statement was true and consistent. But I'll use other methods for more difficult ones.

At this point in my 8 or 9 days of no contact, I would probably kill to hear those words from my ex in the middle of the night. Sometimes I wake up from a nightmare in the middle of the night, or wake up just feeling lonely and pain in my heart and I flip my phone over hoping against hope that there's a message, any message from her. But it's just silence.

Yes Lost. I totally understand what you are saying and I'm sorry you're going through this. I also had and still have horrible nights when I can't sleep and my mind is still engaged. It's an unwanted feeling and sometimes you just want your mind to be at peace so you can at least get some rest. It can be a very difficult thing to do, but it's all about depersonalising this behaviour, learning all you can about BPD and yourself (I attend Therapy and use this site for information and as a support group). I do not know your circumstances and story, so I don't want to assume anything and give you false advice.


One thing that helped me personally is a series of Youtube videos by Noah Elkrief. They helped me understand how to live and be at peace in the present and to love myself a bit more. It's been said over and over, but these periods of NC should be about "YOU" and building your knowledge and strength. That way if you get that contact you want, you'll be in a much better position to handle it.


I'm here for you if you ever need someone to talk to. 

Thanks mistomaple, I appreciate it.

I've been through this once before and built up myself and my knowledge and she came back. The cycle repeated even using SET and validation. It was better this time around for a while or so I thought. I guess I'm feeling right now like what's the point? Build myself up again, expand my BPD knowledge even more, only to have it happen again? I want the cycle to stop, but I don't want to walk away from her forever. Wait for her to contact me and come back or leave her behind forever... .both options inevitably result in some kind of pain. I'm hoping for a third chance. Once more into the fray, one final test of who I am to her. If I fail so be it, I'll know I'm just not the one. But all I can do right now is wait and hope for her to reach out. Day 9 of no contact. I think I have a lot more to go before she remembers me.

I don't think anybody can ever be "the one" until the pwBPD seeks help. My position is kinda odd in the sense that my Ex is in Therapy and isn't seeking out relationships. So at least for the time being there is no "New supply" coming in and I have been the one pushed, pulled, painted black and then painted white. Without some form of therapy the cycle would continue. If you're certain on staying then you need to prepare to be whatever it is your pwBPD needs you to be, whether it's good or bad while at the same time, taking good care of yourself.

Just another update of what's been going on. It's been a pretty positive day talking to my Ex. It feels like more familiar ground. She started the day asking questions like ":)o you still think of me?" and I'd say yes. "Everyday?" I'd say yes. This turned into a light hearted conversation of us laughing over pictures of herself from the age of 13 all the way to 24.

Then she said "I just have to tell you something... .I like talking to you. But if you have feelings for that girl then I don't think it's a good idea. The pain is still very fresh and I don't want anything to do with that"

I simply said "I enjoy talking to you too" which got the response "Are you saying you have feelings for her?"


I tried to shift the conversation away to something else, simply because of the pushy nature of it and the fact that the answer really didn't matter (her feelings would make the facts if she wanted to). I tried to turn the convo over to one of our friends who is having trouble with his own girlfriend over FB jealousy. But it didn't work, my Ex just said "Just answer the question please" I just gave in and said "No" just to keep her happy. Funny part is that our friends girlfriend was getting mad because my Ex liked one of his posts and my Ex had to remove it, saying "His dysfunctional, overly insecure, psycho girlfriend needs to calm the ___ down"  lol (Pot calling the kettle black)


We started talking about how insecurity and trust issues are not healthy for a relationship and it's something that has to be worked on. She found that kinda funny and said "Lol. That's ironic XD sorry"


I was using my friends relationship to draw attention to ours without actually talking about our relationship. I said "They still try and make it work at least. There is love there. It can become healthy if they work on themselves" to which she replied "Should I be offended now?  " (She's very wise to my antics)


This is when the conversation took an interesting turn. She said "There's a possibility we could be together again. But it would mean we have to talk a lot of things out some day. Like, a lot"

I said that that was a conversation for another time. She then asked me "Would you even want that?" and I said yes, but it's not up to me.


She then said "Well I meant what I said. I'm not with anyone, I'm not growing feelings for anyone nor will I. We took a break so we could work some things out. For me that meant exactly that, and not hooking up with other people" she then went on to say what her progress had been day to day and that she didn't sleep with anyone and is trying to make the best of her illness (Dunno if she meant the BPD or Thyroid) and then the conversation just went back to casual talk and joking around.


It's really odd. I sighed and felt like "Yeah. This is what I know. This is the position I can put my knowledge, tools and my stronger self into practice". For the first time In a long time, it's felt like I have my girlfriend back. But I still tread carefully and take everything with a grain of salt.

If this is what you want I'm truly happy for you mistomaple. I'd give just about anything to be having that kind of exchange with my ex. In fact we were having that kind of exchange while we were having a week long "break". And every sign and indication was there that we were going to be getting back together. And then she flipped, out of nowhere. Suddenly I was nothing. I can only assume somebody messaged her or showed an interest in her and I've been replaced in every way.

No contact is hard. I know it's supposed to be a time for working on ourselves and healing. But it feels like an alternate reality... .how is it normal to be with someone for years, all the memories, all the laughter, all of the shared experiences, the tears, the joy, the dreams, the deep intimate conversations... .to nothing? Silence. It's the worst kind of pain.

First time we broke up last year I pursued hard and made a fool of myself. I know better this time around. I "think" from everything I read that going no contact is the best way to get gem to reach out to you again down the road. I hope it to be true this time around.

You're doing very well with your communication with her. I was doing the same during my break from her. I just don't understand why she flipped that last day. We were so close to reconciling.

One of the last things I said to her was I thought for sure it looked like she wanted us to get back together, and she said "yeah I was thinking about it, but not now, not after this fight. Now we will never get back together". Followed by "but I think we'd make great friends". I told her I can't be just her friend.

Nothing since. Is it really over?



Good luck mistomaple, I hope your story has a better ending than mine.

Aghh LostGhost it's really horrible I know to have no control when you want something so bad!

Does she have a pattern to her behaviour that may help you to gage if she'll be back? I mean try and remove all logic like you were advising a friend and what would your instinct tell you?

I'm in the same situation and fear he's gone for good! It's killing me but their is sweet FA I can do!

Diagnosed BPD ex wife is crazily passive aggressively jealous of new girlfriend.  It shows in the most pathetic ways, too.  Makes me realize what a weak, limited person she has always been. She also rages if the kids don't call her when she wants to be called, etc.  Everyone has to toe her emotional line.  What a garbage human being.

Yes Lou it's a lot of pain and rough nights wondering who she's with now or if she'll be back. She does have a pattern of recycling her exes but only once and then she usually moves on as far as I can tell (or they do). I've already been recycled once... .so now I'm fearing the worst that she's done for good. But maybe I'll set a new precedent, it's hard to say.

I hope you get what you want Lou.

My ex husband had thyroid cancer before I met him. He had the thing out by the time we were married.

The side effects of being hypothyroid were weight gain, physical sluggishness, depression, being tired, mentally slow. He took synthroid and livened back up to be his usual annoying ADHD self.

Now if she also has ADHD, it could explain why she is showing a few other tricks like hyper obsessing, not being focused, being jumpy, irritable, bouncing 5 checks a week stuff.

My Ex does have ADHD. I did wonder why I never really saw that much Hyperactivity in her. She had problems with focus at times, but that was about it. The rest was sluggish and tired as you said.

I just sat and read all 6 pages of this thread.

I have just gone through my second major recycle and at this stage, after 10 days of no contact, the abusive texts and emails started. The rage went for days and has just started to calm a little. What I found was when I was non-commital and detached in my responses, the rage became stronger and the abuse more cruel.

At this point I am still the blackest of black and all of the latest set of problems are caused by me.

There is no acceptance of any responsibility or contribution to the problem by carrying on a "relationship" with her supposed ex after I had proposed to her. We have a relationship going back more than 4 years with my BPD.

What is so sad and depressing to read threads like this is that it is hard not to believe that 95% of BPD relationships are terminal. No human can live their life on the back foot just waiting for the next cycle of abuse and then having to swallow it without defending oneself. I would almost say 99.9% of RS are doomed but I have some level of optimism.

The other sad thing here is that every action and comment that has been brought up in this thread is identical to every comment and action that I have experienced over my more than 4 years. Even the last separation where she was with another guy, the mere thought of the BPD knowing that I may have had coffee with another person would cause all the same accusations that have been stated here. It is almost like this issue is a behavioural virus that imprints its code on every one it touches and they just become behavioural clones of each other.

But, the final and most depressing scenario with these BPD behaviours if that their family seem to condone it and just accept it by saying "Oh, that's just the way she/he is. He/she is just emotional and passionate about what they think." They just don't see the problem and there is no way that anyone can intervene to help these people in some way.

That is the thing that I find the saddest. That there is really no way to help them and that the only way to help yourself is to try and use the tools until you reach your final point of compromise and walk away, carrying the pain of all the hurt that has been cast upon you for the duration of the relationship.

BPD in a person that you love more than anything is the ultimate lose/lose tragedy.

Yes Next. It seems like the worst punishment one could endure and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have come to realise the truth of it all and my options. Faith is the only thing pulling me forward, my Ex is in therapy and is working on herself bit by bit. Every ounce of me wants her to grow and develop healthy coping mechanisms and perhaps understand that things aren't always black and white, at least to the point we can hold together some sort of relationship together. The other reality is that I'm willing to let her go if at some point she strays from her path and abandons hope herself. It saddens me, but my boundary is that if she loses sight of herself and picks up a new replacement, then that's when I've decided to do the honourable thing for myself.


She hasn't done this yet and I have no idea if she will or will not. Until then I'm willing to be whatever it is she needs me to be, positive or negative, caretaker or punching bag. I'll watch over her until she pulls herself up or until she falls.

Update for today


Had a very intense interrogation from my Ex (Which I handled amazingly well)



At the end I was cornered into an Ultimatum about the other girl I had made friends with



My Ex said "As long as you're friends with her there's no chance of getting back together. You say you want to get back together. But from the moment we start talking and are supposed to repair the trust that we broke, you start with keeping secrets about a girl who you have used against me. Maybe you don't see it yourself that you did that, but you did. So you can stay friends with her, that's fine, but that will be my exit"


I replied back "I can tell that it may seem like I'm choosing someone else over you. That would be very painful to be around when you still love someone and try your best for them every day. I love you and want this to work out and I mean exactly that"


She wrote back "I'm not gonna change my mind on this. Sorry"


So it looks like it's standoff time

Hey Mistomsple, maybe someone could advise you better but I would be the same as your BPD ex if I loved someone and I thought another girl was a threat to me! So if a non feels this way I expect it would be even more upsetting to a BPD! Just a thought for you to bear in mind. Every girls wants to be the centre girl in their partners eyes BPD or not...

X

Nextinline... great post and unfortunately very true!

X

That's all well and good Lou. But the fact is she's not my partner right now. She's my Ex and there is still no guarantee she'll be my partner again. She's still talking chances and maybes.

Tbh, I would feel the same way as your ex. You are saying you want to get back together with her, but you are making friends with another woman to the degree that you have lied by omission to your ex about her. Then you say it's none of her business what you are doing.

Huge red flag. This is the type of shady behavior my boyfriend gets up to and why we are not talking. As soon as I see that behavior in him, I am instantly done with trying to fix anything, and he really does need to remove that girl from his life.

I am not saying that you can't have women friends. But you are playing a game here with keeping your options open while trying to get your ex to re-engage.

She isn't the only one talking maybes.

So if that's the case Mistomaple what exactly are you trying to achieve? If you want the girl and she is giving you straight (and very valid) reasons why she thinks you can't be together then eliminate the reason. Now if she was asking you to choose against her and your mother then I would understand.

Remember your up now emotionally, don't forget how you felt when you were down.

Honestly if I stipulated that condition to my ex boyfriend and he even took more than a second to think about it when he's known that person 2 minutes then I would not be happy.

Your shout...

X

Guys. I get what you're saying. I had no problem removing the other girl from FB. I did it to show my Ex I cared. (Even though the reverse situation with adding her Ex caused opened the door for our split)


Anyway. Something unexpected happened when I did that.


I said "You're the one I care about. I want to be with you again"



Shockingly she replied "... .bahh no. That's not the way to go. That doesn't make me feel better at all. Just say you were cleaning out your friendslist and you accidentally deleted her and add her back... .Dick move from me. I thought that would make me feel better but it doesn't. You should be able to be friends with whoever you want otherwise I'm not better than Johns girlfriend" (My friends gf with insecurities)


I am speechless

Ok. I am guessing your ex doesn't know actually how she really feels and is still upset over this. Not to invalidate your experiences of her being upset over a lot.

I guess if I were you, I would let the status quo ride and not make any moves for a few days while you try and do some other stuff to replenish yourself and get some enjoyment from your weekend.

Gives her time to think, too.

Hard to disengage, but sometimes if I go clear my head a bit, I feel better and can think of my next step.

What in the world. I was really rooting for you mistomaple. It seemed like from the messages she was sending you a few days ago she was all about you, missing you and wanting to get back together. This seems like a control thing maybe. She asked you to do something that she knew you would not like and when you did it, she probably sat back and relaxed for the first time in weeks knowing that she still owns your heart basically. I'm really not sure what to make of it. I would keep that friend off facebook a while and just go back to no contact for a few days maybe, focus on yourself and see what happens?

Mistomaple... .all perfectly normal! Pls see my previous post where I say... Coming back can result in them cold shouldering you further. This is the nature of the beast. You will deal with thus better always knowing you done the right thing. I'm telling you and I'm mean it you have to be a door mat. Sorry but true. You won't win but you do have a result with a your BPD and these my friend are the best results you'll get x

Lots of great insights shared by Nextinline, but I wanted to add something to this segment:


After I was put through the hate-wringer, I genuinely started feeling sorry for her family. It was the only way they knew to control her rage - somehow they learned along the way that not engaging (no contact to some degree) was a way to cope with the rage attacks. It truly is a sad situation for everyone involved, including the pwBPD

---

Sorry to read that update Mistomaple,

it really is a lose-lose situation when dealing with a pwBPD. On one hand we would like to show them we care, but that sort of compliance can seem like weakness and can play into being painted black. It certainly happened to me and you can't be blamed for having trust and love for another.

roti wrote

On one hand we would like to show them we care, but that sort of compliance can seem like weakness and can play into being painted black.

---True. Sometimes the more we show love to them, the sooner they paint us black

Having to take another moment of emotional detachment for myself. My Ex and I have been communicating pretty well and have talked about our feelings and our relationship break. I currently seem to be receiving the lesser of the attention as she has taken to spending time with her old LDR boyfriend. Playing online games, exchanging casual messages and posting pictures of back when they were together and how good a memory it was (Nothing flirty or sexual). But then again it does make me feel played with and it is pretty harmless I guess (She says she has no feelings or interest in hooking up with other people). Just taking it at face value and reducing contact for the time being. Not gonna try and fight for attention and look like a control freak.

Mistomsple I've had this before and quite honestly I told him firmly 'this is a boundary that has been crossed' I refuse to speak to or give you attention whilst this other girl is on the scene. It worked because he stopped trying to triangulate me with girls. It was an absolute no no for me.

Was wondering how your getting on?

Mine back, just yesterday the recycle began but I have decided to ignore all indirect contact at present and see if I get something more direct in the near future! Problem with that though is my instincts tell me he'll split me blacker more so this time because I've made him directly reach out and that will make him feel anger and shame! We'll see!

X

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