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Please remind me this behavior is just terrible and not normal for a grandparent... .

Parents came over yesterday. My mom gets very offended if my 3 year doesn't come running to her. She needs his attention... .Whether the child is grumpy, tired, etc. She constantly does the "I am leaving if you dont hug me!" or "I'm leaving if you don't play with me!" My dad follows her footsteps and says yesterday... .(my son JUST woke from a nap and was very grumpy and doesnt like being coddled and touched right after. Wants a little while to be left alone.) So he didnt go running to hug my dad and dad says to him "Go away! You are nothing to me. I don't want to talk to you." Says to a 3 year old only because he was tired and not jumping like a puppet to entertain them... .Such emotional manipulation. That is not LOVE. That is needing HIM for their entertainment... .Keeps confirming my doubts of why Im moving across the country!

Nope. Not normal. Not good. You are not the crazy one!

Hi MiserableDaughter,

Witholding love... .conditional love... .guilty love... .is NOT LOVE!  What your parents are doing is blowing that old FOG Machine (Fear Obiligation and Guilt) right at a 3 year old little boy.  Glad to hear your putting some distance between them and your son.

(By the way I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area you will love it out there... .lots to do and explore.)

Panda39

Good.  Focus on this and it will help you combat the FOG and confusion you have been feeling (though it seems to have lessened a bit?).

Another thing to think about is that you are getting a great view of the kind of emotional manipulation they used on you as a little kid.  MD, it is truly heart breaking.  As hard as it is to see them doing this to your son, it will help you to understand the struggles you have had with them and can be a great tool for you to work on healing you.  It is also an opportunity for you to help Little MD (your inner child) by seeing and hearing you speak up and set limits with them as you protect your son and yourself.     

I must say that I am very very pleased for you.  You have fought long and hard to get to this point of actually moving and doing what you have wanted to do for so long.  Good work MD.  Keep it up.

Oh, I agree with Panda.  San Francisco is a great place.  

Yes, I'm dealing with the FOG better cause I keep reminding myself that they have never been happy when I've lived closeby so what's the difference? To me the words "grandma will leave if you don't hug grandma" are very triggering... .It's like "be my puppet or I don't love u." That's what I hear... .Because that is how I've felt forever with my mom... ."Smile when I want you to smile and laugh like I want you to and keep hugging me. Don't show me your needs, or else I will leave." My life story. Which is why I hate it so much with my son. I never behave like that with him. I give him emotional freedom. It he's angry, it's ok! If he's not in a mood to hug, it's fine! He's a human, not a toy! So seeing it over and over is validating in that I know I'm doing the right thing protecting him... .

Hi MiserableDaughter


It's very unfortunate that your parents behave the way they do, but it is what it is. This kind of behavior requires the setting and defending of firm boundaries. Protecting your son and yourself is definitely the right thing to do.


If your parents weren't disordered, this indeed wouldn't be 'normal' behavior. The harsh reality is that they are disordered, mom is BPD and dad like you say follows in her footsteps. For a non-BPD grandparent this isn't normal, yet for a BPD grandparent this unfortunately often is normal and what can be expected. As hard and unpleasant as this reality is, one's we accept it, we can use what we know of our parents to have realistic expectations of them and prepare ourselves for interactions with them based on those expectations. We can use our parents' predictability, while changing our own responses and strategy.

This made me think of the photos I've seen of my SO's daughters and their uBPDmom.  Their mother has them in what I describe as the BPD death grip... .she clings to them, really clutches them, as if to say see how much my daughter loves me... .we are just so close... .everything is perfect... .see everything is normal.  But when you look at the daughters they look like they are being held captive, they look like they can't wait to get away the second the picture is taken and they sometimes look embarrassed. 

It's a false image that their mom wants to control, to create and show to the outside world.  I always feel sorry for the little girls in those pictures... .I just wanted that woman to let them go so they could escape!

I hope you love San Francisco.  I do.

Do you think they will try to visit you?

Yes, they will of course... .I'm ok with that... .I think it's a different dynamic and new environment so may make visits more tolerable... And I'd visit Boston too. My reason for leaving is not so I have no relationship with them. It's so I CAN tolerate a relationship with them from a distance. Closeby it would have ended in nC which is not what I wanted... .I'd rather be distant and maintain some respect, but we will see how that works out! All I know is after so many years of being beaten and verbally gut punched I deserve this breathing space and "clean" air... .I need to heal.

Think now about your boundaries before they visit, and have that courageous conversation with them before the first visit.

How does your son react when your dad says something like that?

It's good that you are gaining the distance boundary. It's not good for a kid to hear that, perhaps internalizing it if he hears it enough.

My mom wasn't blatantly abusive like that, but she'd make waifish comments in front of the kids if they weren't gushing with joy when she saw them. Drove me nuts.