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i suspect we have all struggled with this: many members have been on the receiving end of some behavior that feels intensely personal. the person we have loved and cared for lashes out at us in extremely hurtful ways, sometimes repeatedly, and sometimes even to extended lengths with a smear campaign. our best friend seems to become our worst enemy. how can it not feel personal? some of us struggle with accepting mental illness as an explanation. we want "justice". sometimes we want revenge. we have our own ideas of right and wrong and we feel strongly about them. we tend to feel outrage that it appears as if our partners have forgotten and moved on so quickly. sometimes we say "mental illness aside... .".

in my opinion, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of mental illness. the point is not to excuse or condone behavior. it is to see it for what it is.

it sometimes seems that we are quick to diagnose our partners, but we struggle with accepting and understanding their mental illness. its understandable. many of us arrive here when the hurt has just begun, or is very recent. we want to know more about BPD, and share our stories, but the last thing we want to hear is that we played a role or that the behavior we experienced was not "personal". hopefully, we arrive at this conclusion in our own time, when we are ready (if not with some gentle help) where we do not overly blame ourselves or our partners, but accept responsibility, our partners mental illness, and the overall unhealthy nature of the relationship.

how do you feel? is it "personal" to you or is it not?

It Did feel personal at first but after having her in my life for two years I've witnessed her idealise and devalue other exes, parents, friends, bosses.  So I know it's not just me. She can't maintain emotional composure with anyone

I was very fortunate that my ex told me about her disorder upon meeting her. She even gave me a list of the DSM symptoms for the disorder and told me to tell her if I thought she was exhibiting any symptoms. I, however, was unable to comply with this wish of hers due to my own flimsy boundaries and my fear of hurting her feelings, I take responsibility for that. I take responsibility for allowing her to rage at me and demean me without speaking up for myself. I take responsibility for having such weak, permeable boundaries.

When we first started dating she showed me her latest book, "New hope for people with borderline personality disorder." After her first breakdown, in which she hurled insults at me, etc. I bought the book and began to educate myself. This section was extremely illuminating.

"HOW DOES BPD behavior appear to a family member or spouse? Imagine walking down the street alongside someone you love. Suddenly he starts acting as if you had stomped on his foot, deliberately causing him injury. The change in his behavior toward you would be understandable as a reaction had you deliberately injured his foot; however, you did no such thing. Perhaps you bumped into him while walking along, a bump so minor you didn’t even notice it. You are therefore clueless when there is a sudden, quixotic behavioral shift and you are now the recipient of hurtful behavior and insults.

Families, friends, and loved ones are in the unique position of bearing the brunt of erratic behaviors that they neither cause nor comprehend. To make matters worse, they generally have little or no information available to help them decipher the actions that wreak havoc upon their lives."

Understanding the disorder gave me a new "Lens" through which to view her behavior. Coupling this with mindfulness and compassion (though a lack of healthy boundaries and a strong white knight complex) , I stuck it out for sometime.

In the end, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that I don't take her actions personally. I refuse to allow my self worth to be contingent upon her.

I've been reading a book called the wisdom of a broken heart. In it, the reader is asked to reflect on the primary emotions felt in post break up. I wrote: Sorrow, Nostalgia, Anger, and perhaps surprisingly to many members here, Gratitude.

I feel incredibly grateful for the amazing moments we shared together. I felt fully alive in those moments. And I only have one life! I am also grateful because this relationship has pointed me towards my own work. It has shown me where my problems areas lie. Those things about myself that made me attracted and prone to engage in such a disordered relationship. Now that I have been made so acutley aware of them, I can correct them so that I can create a healthier relationship in the future. I have learned so much. I believe I have become a much more spiritually mature person. And despite all of the hurt, I do not regret anything.

In a way, this is black and white thinking, with the set up being if you choose 'personal' you're getting it wrong. In reality it was a mix of both in my relationship, and in many of the relationships I've read of here, with much of it in the middle gray area. Not just one extreme or the other. Intimacy being perhaps the main trigger of the various push and pull behaviors with BPD, and the closer the more personal. Are the roots in mental illness? I haven't found another way to make more sense of it, sifting through the facts. Was some of what happened done intentionally? Definitely. So I'd say both. 'Acceptance' means the whole picture.

i want to congratulate you all on some really keen self awareness and progress in your healing.

i think myself makes a great point. i think that it would be dehumanizing of pwBPD to suggest they are incapable of acting without spite or acting intentionally. i think a great deal of it can be chalked up to impulsive behavior, and the push/pull nature of the mental illness, but we never want to forget that pwBPD are all human, and that they all vary a great deal.

the question isnt intended to find right or wrong answers, especially given how personal it feels; only how we process it with the knowledge of BPD.

so lets explore the subject further: which behaviors felt/feel personal to you and which dont?

After a few years, I started to feel like I was a stand-in for her father. An older wise friend commented after that it seemed like a father-daughter r/s. She was 11 years younger. In the end, she said it in a way: the way I acted "felt just like my father!" 

Later, I reali zed that I felt just like my mother, the constant splitting.

I really can't fathom what was personal and how much of it was me being a Father avatar. She's split me white as a co-parent father. She likes me now a lot better than I like her. The cynical part of me says, "that's because she needs me still." I still feel she used me merely to get kids with a stable guy. Impersonal+personal. I think she loved me for a time... .then not. How to make sense of that? I never meant to hurt her, though I did by withdrawing. I don't know how much of that was personal, and how much of that was  my-issues  from my dBPD mom.

Bottom line: two people with issues.

I don't really take it personally because i know she's sick so in a way i am more mad at life itself, not her. It is odd because normally when people hurt me, my feelings for them quickly turn very negative, regardless of who they are, but not her. I don't know if this is a testament to how special she is/was to me or maybe i have a better control on my emotions. Perhaps a bit of both.

Its hard not to take it personally when it is directed at you.

At first I took it personally. Then after finding out about BPD I found it was hurtful but not my fault. I then learnt more and realised I was triggering her so it was my fault even though what I was being accused of wasn't the real problem. Then I saw it as her condition not allowing her to communicate her true feelings. Then I saw it as my fault for not picking up on her feelings.

Now I realise it is what it is. I am both blameless for not having the tools to deal with it and at fault for not trying harder to understand. Its a bit like going to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and trying to order food. Sometimes you get what you want and other times you don't. Its not your fault that your not fluent and its not the waiters fault they didn't understand you.

My ex went further than that: she always compared me to her beloved grandmother.

Turkish,

  I can relate with your comment. I was three years younger yet I felt like her mother figure. It was not a romantic relationship. It was this sick role playing thing where I was her mom wiping her nose, feeding and clothing her... .doing things to make her feel special and needed.  I was giving, giving, giving... .and receiving nothing. Putting all my needs and desires aside for someone who was taking, using and not appreciative... .at all.

I always wanted children and I am pushing forty. A year into this relationship I knew there was no way in hell I would subject a child to this. That should have been one of many, many red flags yet I stayed. I stayed through several discards. I trusted her less and less until I didn't trust her at all.

She had a key to my house... .once. After she caused some issues she never had a key again... .yet I stayed. 

I don't think what they do is personal. I think it's survival. We are not the only persons they've treated poorly. We personalize it because we want to see the good in them. The thing is this... .

what they show us is who they REALLY are. I found this quote today. I am not sure whose it is... .it's not mine but I want to share it as it's appropriate to this post:


"It takes time to grieve the loss of a significant relationship. No matter how awful your ex is, you still need to mourn the loss. This may be confusing because ending a relationship with an abuser should ultimately feel like an act of liberation, but for many, it’s also experienced as a loss. Not the loss of the “monster” she is in reality, but the loss of the ideal, fantasy image you constructed in your head and the relationship you wished you could’ve had with her. This fantasy image of the great sex and fleeting moments of sanity is not her true self; the abusive bully is her true self. The woman and the relationship you love and miss exist solely in the Land of If Only."

PW

great feedback. i was "just like" my exes father too, except that i wasnt.

heres an example: after the relationship ended i had the displeasure of realizing i had been cheated on during the relationship, probably multiple times, with multiple partners. it was deeply shocking, dont get me wrong, but id done a fair amount of processing, and had the knowledge of BPD at that point. it was a betrayal, but it wasnt my fault. i had some anger because of the constant worries and accusations that i was cheating/would cheat/had cheated. ive seen enough of that behavior in my life to know that its frequently projection. after the anger, it was sort of like "well, it figures".

thing is, i have reason to believe that my ex never cheated on anyone before me. you would think that would make it personal, and about me. perhaps i did play a role. im not talking about victim blaming. im talking about the fact that i spent at least two long periods during the relationship avoiding her, and neglecting the relationship. thats not cause for cheating, its cause for a breakup on either end. and that was part of my lesson. who stays in a relationship where they dont want to spend any amount of time with the other person? i did. what did i expect?

I knew mne would end as soon as I felt that I wouldn't have peace retiring with this woman. At least a year before it really broke down, I encouraged her to start an  individual Roth retirement account. In a sense, I started breaking up with her in a passive (aggressive?) way long before she cheated. I think it's important to own what we own, as well as not taking the blame for the actions of another. That's balanced. It's tough, however, to see this when the break up is fresh. Time doesn't necessarily heal by itself (that's our job), but it can give perspective.

the answer to the question "is it personal" is a lot less important than the lessons we learn. learning about BPD behavior does help depersonalize the actions. we see the pattern and a certain amount of inevitability. we forgive ourselves for the mistakes we have been torturing ourselves over. over time, when we are able to remove a little bit of the sting from our mistakes, and our partners behavior, we can examine the relationship for what it was: an unhealthy relationship that two people played a role in. we can start to see our own maladaptive patterns. we can start to examine them and learn from them. hopefully we can grow and experience more fulfilling relationships as a result.

at this point, i can be brutally honest with myself. i can see the double standards on both ends. i can see the element of newtons law, where for each of mine and my partners actions, there was a reaction, and another reaction, and another reaction. its difficult to make personal of as much when i can see we were two unhealthy people in an unhealthy dynamic interacting with each other unhealthily.


i think thats exactly right. no one should expect a balanced perspective on our relationships over night. the psyche needs to come to terms with processing a very surreal and traumatic experience. the notion that we played a role, or the notion that "it wasnt personal", when we psychologically are not prepared to hear it, usually doesnt help with balance, we perceive it as "its your fault", and often times thats our greatest fear at the time. time certainly gives perspective. it allows our psyche to process the relationship, to experience the ruminations, to satisfy itself. i think with time we are more receptive to examining ourselves and a balanced perspective of the relationship.

In the beginning it felt INCREDIBLY personal, how could it not? We promised one another we would spend the rest of our lives together, we raised a child together, we knew one another intimately; our hopes and dreams were entwined with one another... .the subsequent severing and detachment was almost too much to bear.

It took much time, and much help from the people on these boards, to come to the understanding that it was never personal. She is disordered; her internal landscape is chaotic; she has little idea of what she wants or needs because it changes with such regularity. It makes me sad; she has much to offer and is wonderful in many ways, but the way she copes with her internal chaos causes devastating pain to her romantic partners. This was the truth before she met me, it was the truth in her relationship with me, and it will be the truth with her partners in the future.

It doesn't feel personal to me any more.

My focus now is on me, and how I wound up as a caretaker to a disordered person. My family history, my patterns, my blind spots, my wounds that need to be healed. It feels good to be focused on what I need.

It's like an existential conundrum in some ways.

Accepting that it was not personal really helped me - I needed to get there to truly begin to detach, heal, learn, and grow.

However, in the tumultuous aftermath of the devastation, I equated my exBPDbf's behaviors and words 'not being personal' to 'you didn't matter to him as the unique individual that you are.' Other people might equate 'it's not personal' with something else.

The feelings are certainly personal. and there were two unique humans involved who had very real and personal feelings. There was love there for each other as individuals, and that was personal. But someone else's patterns and behavior are solely their own - just as ours are solely ours - and that is what is meant by 'it's not personal.'

One thing I've learned in life - cliches are often cliches for a reason. Especially when it comes to 'cliches' for self-discovery, healing, and building a happy and healthy life. There's a reason why the teachings of people like Marcus Aurelius and the Dalai Lama (and so many others) basically say the same things. Because they are basic and well-established truths.

In the end, I feel that the gentle repetition of the message (while grating at times) along with validation of my feelings helped nudge me into understanding and believing it. When I did get to that point, it was sort of a facepalm moment for me - Oh, now I see what these people meant, and why they wanted to help me get there.

I do feel it was very personal towards me. He didn't do these things to others, not in this terrible way, cheating, lying on for two years and then on and on with no any consideration that I was about giving up my job for him(to move up to him)... .but I guess I was very different from others, very calm compared to previous partners. I think he treated others better because they were all like him... .and it very much hurts me.

Hi 2357,

*welcome*

I'm sorry to hear that. I completely understand how cheating and lying hurts very much and how personal that feels  Thank you for joining the discussion

this is a particularly tough part.

i ultimately, for myself, had to conclude "i was special, but i wasnt that special" as the surviving a breakup article suggests. thats not to say my relationship wasnt real, or that it was an illusion, or any of that hype. it meant, for example, that i had to let go of "the words that were said". thats not a message i would have been receptive to in my aftermath either. i already felt "not special" and it didnt feel good.

we know that pwBPD have a tendency to place their partners on a pedestal, that they can be fickle, that they are dreamers; they want the relationship to fulfill them every bit as much as we do and sometimes more. i think most of us have been in relationships where we expressed some over the top sentiments to partners that we certainly meant at the time, but that we have long since abandoned. do i think a given ex is the most beautiful girl in the world? no. am i still committed to whatever promises i might have made any given ex? no. did i mean it at the time? definitely. these words often have a strong effect on us when we meet our BPD partners not only because we are so receptive, but the whirlwind nature of the honeymoon phase, and because we feel as if we have met our soulmate. its often the nature of the discard that feels the most personal, as if something is profoundly wrong with us.

if we look closely, actions have frequently not matched words.


exactly  |iiii

Aren't we, in a way, placing our Exes on a pedastal when some of us may think, "wasn't I good enough?"

yep :). i know i did. it took writing out "the list" to drag her off, and while i recommend doing so as an exercise, painting our exes, or borderlines, or potential dating partners that reject us, as black, is not the healthiest way to cope.

i do think placing our exes on a pedestal is a common reaction to the breakup.

It certainly feels personal right now. I do feel that is why I am waiting for the relationship with the replacement to fail... .then it will be confirmed that it wasn't me and that she does have a mental illness.

In the last few months of the relationship it was definitely personal. She knew exactly what she was doing. Keeping me around to pay the bills while she hooked the replacement behind my back.  She is a master manipulator and  liar. The majority of what she told me during our six years together were lies... .mental illness or not... .You don't do that to people. It's just evil... .pure evil.

Wow/ I feel the same way you do! Mine even called himself evil! It does feel personal- I'm tired of tip toeing around him- I let my anger out and I don't care anymore. You just don't treat people that way and if they are toddlers then they need to learn!

Though my Ex has clinical depression, I am also stuck waiting for the marriage to her affair partner to implode. It's understandable to seek... .justice... .but it's still a focus on another, rather than ourselves.


I was used similarly, and still am sometimes to an emotional extent because her boy-toy husband doesn't really know her, nor has the wisdom of experience to offer sage advice with regard to the kids. I think like that, too: you don't do that to people,.and you don't do that to kids. She only picks up on how she is hurting the kids when they hurt her. Like when S5 told her the other week that he wished she would die. Only then, and it took a few days, did she realize she had been neglecting him. I could have told her that she's been dong that for the past 2+ years.

It's who she is, emotionally limited. My T told me a year ago that he sensed that a lot of my anger stemmed from expecting her to be who she is not. I wasn't "singled out" as a target for her pain. I saw it with her family, some of her friends, me, aand S5 and D3 on occasion, which may become worse as they grow.

I used to be quietly mad that her parents never taught her proper morals. Even though she admitted to me the other week that it was very hard to break out of the shadow of her mother's projected anxiety, she's still an adult, and it's her responsibilty to follow her own path.

Our Exes are who they are. Regaining who we are is a huge step in detachment, and ultimately, freedom.

why are you basing your recovery on whether she succeeds or fails? in what way does that relationship reflect on you?

my replacement lasted longer than i did. what bearing does that have on my exes mental illness?

I am not basing my recovery on her success or failure. But I would be lying if I denied that I have moments that I want her life to crash. My therapist says  That is normal. Sometimes the thought sneaks in that maybe I was the one with the problem and not her. I know it's not true but still the thought is there. And when it pops in my head it really eats at me.

Is it personal? Yes it is. Anyone claiming it isn't is denying their own feelings and the events that brought them here. Everyone on BPD Family, from old timers with 20.000 plus posts to the newly arrived wouldn't be here if it wasn't personal. It's deeply personal!

its very common. i wouldnt even begin to tell you otherwise, i felt similarly.

i think it helps to accept that its not about blame or one person having the problems. in all of our relationships, both partners were part of the problem. its perfectly understandable that the thought eats at you too. that fear is trying to tell you something. i think it will continue to do so until you (are able to) face this fear, which takes time. we all have problems. its okay, we are human. again, its not about blame, and its not about you being the one with the problem, or being solely responsible for the breakup. its about realizing we are the only ones that we can change or control. its a scary notion, until it becomes freeing, and we grow as a result. it no longer eats at us.

consider how a person with BPD deals (or doesnt) with these kinds of fears.

Thank you for this. I do believe it is personal to an extent ... .mental illness or not. There was a point in the relationship she knew exactly what she was doing. She was stringing me along to pay her bills while she was screwing someone else behind my back.

And not to mention the Times she was telling me she was going to th  lawyer to finalize her divorce ... .which ends up was for a marriage  That never happened. She was screwing someone else again behind my back. That is deliberate not because  of mental illness... .You make a choice to cheat and lie and deceive. So yes I take it personally.

And at first I bought into the fairy tale but as the relationship progressed and I went to therapy I understood she had problems. For the last two years together I figured she had BPD. Why did I stay?  Not because of a childhood trauma or fairy tale... .I stayed because I loved her and her kids. Simple as that. So yes it is personal because mental illness or not this person lied deceived  and cheated on me. That is a choice they make. And it is very hard for me to just say oh she is mentally ill so it is ok. I am sorry but being mentally ill doesn't give her a free pass to hurt me. And destroy my self worth and life.

So once removed, I get what you are saying but I got to tell you it would make me feel so much better if just once, just once I saw her hurt as much as she hurt me.

I agree... .I think I stayed so long because I felt bad for him because of the mental illness.They seem to use it to put themselves in the victim mode. They have a choice to get help and change. They know right from wrong. Mine grew up going to Catholic church and have very good parents with very strong morals. He knows what normal is! That's what gets me. He got caught up in watching these other people where he works, cheat and lie and seem to get away with it I guess. I still hope that he feels the consequences and see's that maybe all this lying and cheating isn't worth it. Because he has put great distance between his family and now his wife. His own father whom was always  there for him as I was, even when his mother who loves him, but didn't believe him for anything he says... .his father now told him that he loves him, but can no longer deal with the drama that comes with the alcohol and drug abuse. His sister barely wants anything to do with him and feels like an only child. He is doing all of this to himself and then doesn't want to make things right. It's one thing to have problems and get dis-regulated at times and I can understand some of it... .but to purposely use people for your own pleasure or to get things  from being with them is just wrong. I believe mine knows the difference and chooses to live in the filthy side of the world. Land of lies, cheating, porn, and addiction. He has been to therapy all of his life, but won't stick with it and he has been taught right from wrong. He must be having more fun on the wrong side. I just watched a wonderful sermon on sin. I kept wondering when he would pay the consequences for his actions. The minister said the higher the power, the bigger the consequences. For instance... .they sin against us and we may accept an apology. They sin against the law and they may go to jail... .they sin against God and they will suffer in bigger ways than we will ever know. We do need to stop focusing on the past and try and look forward to our new futures where we will make better choices and have happier lives. That was our mistake in the relationships- we chose to stay with people that showed us the red flags and we ignored them due to wanting a relationship so badly. We need to work on our self esteem, know that we are really good people who deserve to be with people that treat us with respect. It's tough when we have allowed ourselves to be use and abused, but we need to make a pact that we will never allow this to happen again. I am so aware now of what people say about themselves. They will tell you! Yesterday I met a guy who literally told me his wife cheated on him over and over... .he then admitted to being bi-polar, broke and drinks until 1am at night playing angry birds! He said at least he knows that as long as he is not in a r/s he doesn't have to please anyone else. He is 63... .My first thought was... .I hope he doesn't ask for my number!  So opposite of the way I was before! I am getting stronger- we all can!

WTH and BH, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about us. At the end of the day they, who and whatever they are, don't matter. What matters is what was done and the effect it had on us. That, regardless of what any "self exploring" clever clog here claims, is extremely and painfully personal.

Like I said before, if it wasn't personal none of us would be here talking about it.

Hi MrHollande

Yes it is personal but like everything to do with us its how personally we take it. This might sound like new age BS and I can understand that.

I can understand your anger and bitterness. I have been there. Anger is an important part of the healing process but at some point you have to let it go.

I realised that a lot of my anger was actually at myself. I had allowed myself to be treated like I had. I had dismissed the red flags and talked myself out of them. I wasn't without blame. Im not saying my ex was blameless. Far from it but I could have walked away at any time and nearly did on numerous occasions. I chose to stay. I chose to put up with the abuse. I made a lot of bad choices not that this excuses my exs behaviour but I have to see my part in it.

I think early on it feels very personal. It can stay feeling very personal for quite awhile even with educating oneself on the disorder. As one gets closer to RA it gets less and less personal especially if one has started the detachment process.

I got stuck for years thinking it was personal.  I stumbled onto the existence of BPD 5 years ago when I was trying to make sense of his behaviors and my confusion. I remember reading about looking at my own part in the dysfunction and dismissing it, aside from working on validating him more and walking away more often and sooner when he raged.  But I still felt like a victim and put a lot of energy into wishing for and pushing for him to get help to be "fixed" so our relationship could work again.  I would say that the past year was when things finally fell into place for me when the pain and confusion, anger and resentments got to me too much so that I put myself into therapy.  So much was put into place for me as far as my own part in allowing the relationship to continue as long as it did. I take responsibility for that and am working hard to make the changes I need to so that I never again end up in such a dysfunctional relationship.  I know now that if I don't make the changes I need to in myself (and I'm well on my way) it's no one else's fault if I allow myself to be treated badly other than my own.  

Enlighten Me,

I've asked this question before. The person closest to you in the world, perhaps ever, betrays you in the most cold and sadistic way, how is that not personal?

Yes we learn, we detach, we establish boundaries, we let go and eventually go on stronger, better and happier. Doesn't change the fact that what we've been through is personal. One reason this is so brutally painful is because of how personal it is but the eternal catch phrase "it's nothing personal" remains. There needs to be a rethink regarding that in my opinion.

Michelle, I'm so glad you've found a good therapist and are taking care of and discovering yourself. 


Taking ownership of ourselves is the most important thing we can do to help us build a happy, healthy life.  |iiii

I agree with michel - the closer one gets to radical acceptance, the less personal it feels.

That process takes a while. The wounds have to get less raw. But RA is something to strive for, or else it's easy to get stuck.

I do understand my part and I take full responsibility for it. I am in therapy and have been for a while. Therapy made me stronger and gave me the tools I needed to walk away from my ex and the tools I needed to work on myself. It still hurts and I have been told it take  time to heal... .well it's been a year and I still have moments. I would like to not have any moments anymore. I would not like to have her cross my mind at all.

I agree with hollande.  It's hard not to take it personally. I told this person everything my deepest fears secrets etc and then she used them to crush me.  That's personal. And I just have a I had  to me saying it  ok you are mentally ill. No you don't do that to people.

After her first breakdown in which she insulted me profusely, I told my ex I thought she was malicious. She, sort of surprised, asked what she said that was malicious. I mentioned that she had devalued me by harping on the fact that i couldn't orgasm inside her. She said that her rationale behind this was that her self-esteem was tied to whether she could get a man to orgasm... .Yah kindof twisted, I know. Another thing she had told me was that I should just go out and have sex with somebody, that I just need to get laid. This was also conveyed as a devaluation of me. She said that she suggested that I do that so that she could get over me, or have an excuse to be done with me.

So i find it interesting that both of those very personal devaluations were driven by her symptoms: her low self-esteem/shame issues, and her fear of abandonment. They were motivated by her disordered personality. Personality being the characteristic and unique way in which one interfaces with reality.

How can one simply say, "Oh its just because she has a personality disorder that she berated me in such a personal way." Hmmm. bear with me here. Could you use that excuse/explanation for someone who didn't have a personality disorder and berated you? "Oh its just because of his personality that he berated me in such a personal way."

I think you could. At bottom it is the structure of one's personality that, in large part, dictates these things, personality disorder or not. This does not of course negate free will.


I recently heard a very profound definition of forgiveness: To forgive is to acknowledge that the recipient of forgiveness is an imperfect human; an imperfect human, like all humans, who is very susceptible for error.

Error: the state or condition of being wrong in conduct or judgment.

Just some thoughts from a clever clog.

Hi MrHollande

Like Ive said I agree it is personal. What we need to bear in mind is there are different levels of personal.

If someone crashes into your car its personal but its not a malicious act. If someone targets you, stalks you and systematically ruins your life that is personal and malicious.

The problem with BPD relationships is that in the beginning they've not actively targeted you to ruin your life. They want what we all want. The happy ever after. The walking of into the sunset life. By the end their actions may seem malicious and sometimes they are.

I suppose what Im getting at is when the person we love more than anyone else betrays us it cuts deep. By believing they did it on purpose and it was always their intention helps at first but you eventually have to let go of that.

Ooo,

Heres another question: Does one's personality limit their free will? I would suggest that it does. Jean Paul Sarte would likely disagree.

Hi Darsha

I think personality does affect how we behave. You only have to look at any school class and you will see it. The quiet shy guy or girl who is cautious of everything. The cocky one who doesn't care about consequences. The flirt who uses this to get what they want.

In suicide land there is the following catch phrase: Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Sounds clever, doesn't it? One of my best friends recently took his own life and it was his solution to a lifetime of depression. To apply the above cliché to him is an insult to his life, his achievements and to everyone he knew and loved. His problems weren't temporary, they were for life and he'd had enough. I am devastated by him leaving us so soon but I understand why and I am at peace with it. But anyone who applies the above catch phrase to him has clearly not understood the complexities that lead to his drastic action.

I think the application of "it's nothing personal" to us is as oversimplified, incorrect and on some occasions as tasteless as "it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem" is to victims of suicide.

Lets leave the black and white, all or nothing thinking to our BPDexs. ay?

All fair points and I agree mostly but there is still an over use of that catch phrase. When it's said to me I understand because, although still angry and not ready to forgive, I am a year out and detached enough to know the not personal aspect. Someone new here often won't which can make it a very callous thing to say. There is a time and a place for it.

And regardless how detached we become, it will remain personal. Why else would so many chose to stay and help others here year after year? Because it's affected them personally.

Speaking of myself I'm ready to accept the not deliberate up until the very last thing she did and said to me. It had all the intentions of a child pulling the wings off an insect with total glee. There's a difference when an executioner chops your head off because it pays the bills or because he enjoys it. I have a hard time getting passed the deliberate part.

I agree the blanket statement of its nothing personal isn't helpful. Its not a magic statement where people say "oh that's ok then" and miraculously move on with their life.

A statement of its not as personal as your taking it is also not helpful as it casts judgement on the non.

Whats needed is an understanding of how the disorder affects the pwBPD and more importantly for us our part in it and the consequences of our actions. All too often people arrive here and believe they are at fault for everything. They believe they deserved what happened to them. They ruminate and ask what could I have done differently. We all have done things whether we know it or not that have triggered our exs. Whether its their fear of engulfment because weve done everything for them or their fear of abandonment because we have given them their own space it doesn't matter. What matters is we weren't properly equipped.

I suppose this is the crux of the its not personal statement because their disorder made them retaliate to our misunderstanding of their needs triggering their disordered behaviour.

I suppose "their behaviour is not personal but their reaction is" would be more fitting.

Owning our part is one thing, and healthy. Denying some facts to favor others, not so much. Does it really "keep us stuck" to take some of it personally, if some of it was personal? Every relationship was different here, but in many of them many of the actions were done intentionally. The person was out of control but not so much that they didn't know what they were doing, or seeing it was another time in their lives when they were painfully acting out that way. On both sides. I'm sure my ex took some of what I said and did personally, too, because it was. We were two humans in a dance of love and push and pull. I wasn't just a codependent victim putting myself in harm's way by choice, and she wasn't just a disordered jumble of helpless contradictions. Is it a mental illness with a person, or a person with a mental illness? Oh, a person first? Not such a stretch to get to 'personal' then. Especially when the person acts out and aims it at whoever's closest, instead of at themselves. On purpose. To 'survive'. It's usually not at strangers, it's who they know/can hurt the most. Their mirror.

to reiterate: there are no right or wrong answers here. the question "is it personal" is intended to provoke thought and discussion and what the question means to you.

radical acceptance has been mentioned a few times; it is the basis of the lesson of this thread.

here is the article on the concept of radical acceptance, written by marsha linehan: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

how does radical acceptance inform your opinion?

Radical Acceptance was a tough one for me to work through.  While I was separated from my stbxh in what we thought was a therapeutic separation until I realized nothing was going to change and ended things, my therapist wanted me to think about accepting my h the way he was.  There was no way I could accept that at all... .which is why we were separated. 

When I was finally able to wrap my head around this and take ownership of my own "stuff" and realize that there was no way I could live my life hoping for things to get better any longer.  I needed to move on.  That's when I truly realized the difference between accepting the status quo and sort of accepting but hoping things change.  Huge difference.

RA is hard for me, even though my T pointed to me to it as well: "she is who she is, so why get angry about that?" I struggled with it today when she, during a lunch with the kids and ex-in-laws, accused me of putting stuff in our son's head based upon some angry things he said to her. Shifting blame is what she does.

That has to be hard. 

I'm reminded of a story about the Dalai Lama. I can't remember the details because I have a terrible memory, but I remember the gist. Anyway, the DL visited a monastery that featured a bakery. Their specialties were cookies and bread. To welcome the DL, they gave him some bread, and he graciously accepted it. Later, he told the story and confessed, "But what I really wanted was a cookie!"

In other words - even someone as self-aware, centered, and enlightened as the Dalai Lama has moments when it's hard for him. The rest of us poor souls don't stand a chance. :)

These things take work. The important thing is that you try. That we all try.  |iiii