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I'm just over 2 months out of the relationship now. Her and I talk pretty much every day by text. We've gone out to dinner probably once a week. The relationship is over and what has taken its place is some type of quasi friendship. We've been a little physical too, with some massages and things you wouldn't do with friends. This type of physical contact has recently stopped. The communication has become more sporadic now and I suspect a replacement as per usual. There are several men who have appeared out of nowhere on her facebook and from the comments they make, they seem to be love struck in much the same manner I was.

Some of these guys are twice her age which just makes me vomit with disgust.

My pain isn't coming from thinking of her now, it's from thinking of these possible replacements. I look at them and I'm just baffled. Some of them know who I am so it's not like they're oblivious to my existence or innocent in this process. I feel justified in my anger towards them. I have fantasies of violence towards them which surprises me because anger and violence are not a part of my character. What dark recesses of my mind are these thoughts and feelings being conjured up from? These thoughts of vengeance seem to numb my pain temporarily.

I am constantly plagued by thoughts of her having a great time with these men and I feel a crushing weight in my chest. It's exhausting and I feel paralyzed at times. Am I experiencing jealousy, insecurity, anxiety? What is happening? I had hoped to reconcile the relationship and based on how things were going I thought that moment was close at hand but now I feel I have been cast aside.

I know I cannot sustain a friendship with her like this, not one of quality or substance. I feel disheartened when I receive a text from her because every fibre of my being says to ignore it and yet I feel compelled to reply. I have no real reason to give her the silent treatment or disappear from her life other than the fact I'm losing my sanity.

On the flip side if I don't receive a text from her, a panic begins to rise in me, some unstable and unreasonable fear that invades my core and causes intense emotional suffering and worry. This is what I am experiencing at this moment as I haven't heard from her.

I thought I was beyond this. Just what the hell am I doing?

How do I stop thinking about her, about these replacements? I just want it all to end. I sincerely wish I never met this woman. It was intense and the complexity was great but knowing that it's all an illusion, a construct of her mind, an apparatus used to lure men like me in only to discard them when they no longer serve a purpose... .why would I want that? It all feels real to my heart and my mind just can't convince it otherwise. All the logical reasons I have to let her go can't stand up against the emotional tsunami that batters down my defenses and screams at me that this was beautiful, one of a kind, soulmate, best friend relationship material, that I'll never experience this again with anyone else and if I let her go!

But I am defeated. I fall to my knees in surrender and cry out for mercy. Yet, I know if I received a little one line text from her right this instant, all my pleas to escape this disappear into a thin veil of smoke.

Is this the definition of obsession? Is this what it feels like? I have loved someone before, my ex-wife. But this feels more powerful than love. It also feels profoundly unhealthy and detrimental.

I come back to this community daily because it's the only sanctuary of safety I feel I have. Feeling surrounded by people who are suffering like me, or healing from their wounds, it gives me a fragile strength, just enough to sustain me a little longer before I make my next move.

I've met several women while out and about who have seemed interested in me... .and yet I quickly extricate myself from those situations. I'm not ready, I tell myself.

I think even though I have this deep connection with her, this remarkable friendship, I feel I need to say goodbye to her, forever. How do I do this without hurting her? I just can't go on like this any more. I never wanted to give up on her, but I can no longer standby and watch her run off with these replacements while I'm in the friend zone/ex partner. It's too hurtful. Just the word "replacement" causes me pain. Nobody "replaces" me.

Thank you again for listening to me. Everything I know and have read and yet I am still as lost as ever. Hopeless

Finally reduced to tears for the first time in a long while. I certainly hope for a better tomorrow.

I think by just being honest to her.

Tell her. I still have strong feelings for you but realise we will never have what we once had. I cant stand by and watch you get on with your life with another man as it would hurt so much. I think what is best for us is if we just get on with our lives separately.

Or something like that.

Its hard and I feel for you. Im not in the friend zone with my exs but have children with them and even though my exgf never mentioned her boyfriend directly just knowing that she was off to see him tore me apart. The lat thing I think I could have taken is her being friends with me and talking about her plans with him.

It does get easier. Its not a quick journey though.

Hi Lost Ghost, I am very sorry for your suffering. Would it be possible to unfriend her on Facebook? Do you think that would lessen some of your suffering?

Oh boy!... .this thread should have come with a trigger warning... .at least for me.  :)

I have had those exact same feelings although I will add that those feelings of out of controlness (if that's a word) and that detrimental and unhealthy description is also what feels so amazing and so right when the relationship is seemingly working perfectly for both partners.

The weight on my chest made it feel like I couldn't breather properly or that it took too much effort or was painful or something. When that weight finally lifted through gaining not just clarity but insight and then letting go, it felt like the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders and I could breath FREELY. It was an amazing relief. I was astounded just how "restricted" and impaired my breathing was.

I wish that for you too, LostGhost.

I have had a realisation tonight. This site really needs a medical professional or counsellor with a focus on BPD and specifically their relationships with the other party to help guide the weakened or weary in a very knowledgeable way.

I'm not saying that the contributors on here don't do a fantastic job already but there are too many similarities and peculiararities to these stories that warrants someone with considerable expertise and qualification to chime in once in a while and provide some universal guidance to those suffering this most distressing human condition.

Why doesn't it, already?... .that is my question.

Lost Ghost:


The fact that you text each other and have dinner once a week, tells me CLEARLY that you did not let the rs be OVER. All you do is to change the label from BF/GF to friends, but your action say otherwise.

Your attaching heart is saying "I cannot be happy until I have this person and only this person". In the mean time, it clouds your logical mind. Your heart focuses on the good times and let you forget about why  you had left in the first place. You are thinking if I come back this time, everything will be perfect - She will be the perfect person for the rest of my life and I will be in nirvana. THINK AGAIN, MY FRIEND. That is why many of us SUFFER because of this attaching heart, only to go back and then contrary to our belief, the whole ugliness/craziness recurs .

If you left the r.s because of some misunderstandings then I can see the success of the r.s or the marriage, when you both come back. But because BPD is not a misunderstanding, it is a flaw in the characters - BPD's inability to control their emotions. Imagine if you have to change your characters (something imbedded inside your psyche), how long do you think it takes and how hard?.

Here is how you combat your attaching heart.

1. write down on 2 sheets of paper, a list of all the positives and negatives about the r.s that you have experienced and saw. Be honest. Go through your memory , perhaps in a chronological order so that you can bring all of those into your consciousness. (I did just that and I discovered so many negative things that I had forgotten or ignored).

2. Give each of those some kind of grading from 1 to 5, indicating your level of acceptance, w 1 being you can live with and 5 being you cannot absolutely live with it. Give them also a grading of potential change by the other person.

3. The lists will clear out in your mind as to whether this r.s can be salvaged and what need to be done by  not only you but her as well. So if one day before you get back, you can see or ask her whether she is willing to change to meet you half way.

4. When the thought of jealousy comes up, ask yourself is this healthy? Do I really love her? Because if I really love her UNCONDITIONALLY then I would be happy for her to find happiness be it with me or  with someone else. Obviously, you love is not unconditionally.

5. Check out the book the five love language by dr gary chapman. There are 2 kinds of love. First, the Falling in love is the feeling we have in our gut (the butterfly ... ), this is all about US. Then after 2 years, this feeling will die out and the EMOTIONAL LOVE comes in. The emotional love is the one about the other.   it is what we do for the other. For a r/s to last, the each partner has to do things to the other person to keep this emotional love engine running, otherwise it will run dry.

In many of our cases here, the emotional love cannot be sustained because BPD is strictly about themselves, and thus the non's love engine runs dry after awhile. That is perhaps why you left because your emotional love engine is NOT fed with the right love languages. Now you want to come back not because of your emotional love being fulfilled but just only because of your attachment.

Can your BPD change her characters and behaviors to feed your emotional love ?

Can you change your characters and behaviors to feed her emotional love?

Based on what you have experienced, good and bad, can you see living with her for the next 5, 10, 15,20 years and be happy? If  you cannot see a happy r.s where you find new highs , instead of new lows then ask yourself, why Am I wanting to come back?

Yes, thinking about what your ex-SO is doing or not doing is a mental struggle that cannot be overcome easily. What OnceConfused said and suggested are valid things to consider doing. I would suggest also that your ex-SO is stringing you along, wanting to have her cake and eat it too, which is very selfish and frankly doesn't do you any good whatsoever! For your consideration, perhaps, you need to explore more of your own interests that much more so in order to have that much more of a fulfilling time of it along with seeking guidance with a T, if you are not doing so already. I understand your wanting to reconnect in a genuine way, but your ex-SO obviously is again very selfish and frankly using you as another person to have a quasi-relationship.

Thank you as always for your thought provoking replies.

I had a good long look in the mirror last night and had a conversation with myself. I tried explaining that I wasn't happy in the relationship, the intimacy was gone for almost seven months, her constant flirting back and forth with other men, constantly walking on eggshells, that feeling described above of tightness in the chest and difficulty breathing, the ridiculous arguments, the constant validation and SET, the complete lack of empathy. The list of negatives far exceeds the list of positives. I have no reason to go back or to entertain the notion, yet here I am. As they say the heart wants what it wants. My heart is clearly disturbed.

Are thoughts of jealousy healthy? I'm not sure? But I don't think unconditional love where I force myself to be happy for her happiness, even if she's attracting extremely creepy men, is healthy either. If she found a great partner who I know for certain isn't just satisfying creepy desires, great, I could respect that. Someone who is willing to take the time to truly know and understand her, love her, care for her, I can get behind that idea.

Funny thing about the love languages book is it was one of her favourite reads. Her love language was touch and words of affirmation, as was mine. I tried to give a litte of every I've language, with an extra serving of touch and words of affirmation. In return I received nothing. I guess it was supposed to be satisfying enough to now she was mine, or something like that. Can she change to be capable of emotional love? Of fulfilling my wants and needs? This is a difficult question because she definitely did in both the times I went through idealization. But I don't imagine I will be returning there any time soon, nor is it sustainable. The actual relationship exists somewhere between idealization and devaluation and although it was pleasant, it was mediocre by comparison.

Also sorry for triggering you JohnLove! So many of our stories are similar

Considering this - I don't know why I want her back, or more specifically, the relationship. There's plenty I find appealing about her. She is my illicit drug of choice I suppose. I am suspended somewhere between addiction and detox. I know what I must do for me which is absolute NC and yet, she isn't a drug is she? She's a human being with very real fears. I do not want to abandon her, or cause her emotional pain or suffering. I don't want to exacerbate her BPD or the symptoms. I enjoy her as an individual, our friendship (?) is a strong connection. I cannot go on like this though.

Unfriending her on Facebook could be a step but I fear the repercussions, the aftermath of how she would respond to that. I can't get rid of Facebook entirely either because I rely on it for my business. I've considered doing these things anyway. My health has to be more important.

I think you are correct Samuel. Stringing me along, having her cake and eating it too. How do I make her realize she can't ave it both ways? That it's them or me, a sacrifice has to be made? I've read that with BPD absence does not make the heart grow fonder, just the opposite. What choice do I have. I think I have to make the hardest decision and cut all ties and never look back. Is there no other way?

How and what kind of creepy men she attracts to herself, is her own business. Are you implying that she had impaired judgment when she also chose you ?.  You are trying to make excuses for her own decisions and actions.

Like anything else, you can read 1,000 books but if you don't apply them , then you are only a book worm or at best a librarian. BUt, if you take what you read even only 100 books and then apply them to your life, your actions then you are a president, a nobel prize winner, a CEO. Exactly what happened here, she read the 5 love languages, but did she apply them to make you happy and to sustain the emotional love. NOPE. Back to the previous paragraph, life is all about our decisions and actions , isn't it?

I am glad you have already start the analytical process to convince your attaching heart. Note that you are 3/4 the way there by not being with her now, it is time to fight not with her but with you and your attaching heart.

Is there another way, you asked. Unfortunately, I think NOT. Like trying to quit alcohol, you have to quite it cold turkey and cannot be "oh, let me go from 12 packs to 10, 8 to 4 ... .". YOur body chemistry dependents on the alcohol for the high, or in your case, her presence to give you that endorphine. You have to walk away, and let the recovery process starts. You have to go through the pain of detachment, and guess what you will be a much stronger person at the other end.

I can tell you, personally that after BPD, I have become a much stronger person (mentally), a much more determined individual in search of nirvana, a better husband now and a better lover. I took what I learned from the time w BPD to make me a more loving person and yet more resolved in my destiny.

LostGhost,

I kind of got the chills reading through your posts, as I am in exactly the same boat as you, and also don't know what to do. It's been a almost 3 months since she ended things between us, but we have also spoken every day and seen each other for what has felt like dates on a regular basis. About two weeks ago, she told me (after I asked) that she has been sleeping with her ex, someone I know she doesn't like. She told me she's been sleeping with him for the "cheap" male attention, and that she didn't want to spend those nights with me because she didn't want to confuse things between us -- that she loves me, but is committed to being "single."

I put "single" in quotes because that is how she ended things -- she wanted to have time to herself to figure out her life, and since then has been in a complicated and close emotional relationship with me, and a casual sexual relationship with him.

I haven't heard anything from her for almost 24 hours now, and I'm feeling the same anxiety as you -- should I send her a text to check in? What will I do if I get one from her? Everyone who is close to me (family and friends) have said that I need to do my best to keep my distance -- that the most important thing for me is to protect myself, and to not let myself get any more deeply involved in her and what I have imagined my relationship with her to be in the future.

I guess I don't have any good advice for you, mostly just replying to let you know I'm right there with you. I want to go cold turkey, I want to just run in the other direction, but I find myself getting caught up in the same thoughts as you -- I don't want to hurt her, and I don't want her to think she's a bad person. She has treated me unfairly, and broken my heart, and I can't bring myself to do the same to her. She certainly wants to have her cake and eat it too with me, and I'm stuck. We had a talk, and then I wrote her a letter, the contents of which make it very clear where I stand -- that I'm in love with her, that I'm heartbroken, and that I don't know what to do. I do think it's up to me now to decide -- can I live with this heartbreak, and stick around for a while, in the hope that maybe she'll come back? Do I even want her back? Can I tell her that I have to cut off all contact with her? I don't know.

Lost Ghost wrote


What kind of repercussions? You and she are no longer in a r/s, she is seeing other men. What difference does it make how she would respond to that? You are trying to protect yourself. Do you see that you were thinking about getting rid of Facebook entirely because she is such a problem for you? From my perspective that is more like a borderline behavior then a non. I know you are posting on undecided but it sounds like she already left the r/s. What is there left to decide? Are you going to hang around waiting for her to come back or do you want to get on with your life?

Unicorn, I'm posting here because although she's left the relationship, I know they often reengage and recycle. I've done that once before. She never fully "left", nor did I. And from what I've read, they don't ever leave to a one permanent. So I'm keeping my options open. When her relationships blow up as they undoubtedly will, I have two options which are to close the door right now permanently or keep it open for future possibilities. People on the staying board are there because they've had to deal with their partners leaving them, cheating on them, multiple times. Yet the relationship still continues in some fashion.

Why are any of us here? Some of us aren't ready to ER go, even if we've been let to of. Some are looking for answers, or healing. If this was any other relationship, I'd put it to rest. But I know how she operates. I know she recycles her partners, and I'm deciding if I want to prepare myself for round three or if I want out for good. Being out for good ask means terminating out friendship, which I'm not sure I'm prepared to do.

When I speak of repercussions I talk primarily about having to fee guilt. We work together, so cutting contact entirely doesn't work. Singling her out on Facebook and blocking her seems pretty obvious, hence why I would consider getting rid of Facebook entrey, to avoid a burden of guilt, not because I am BPD.

I don't think she would understand us going from daily interactions that are positive to suddenly being expelled from my life. Even with an explanation, I fear how much it would hurt her to be "abandoned" by yet another person that was supposed to offer love and compassion. Then again she might not care at all. Who knows!

  Lost Ghost,

based on your last two posts you sound like you have a fairly good understanding of the disorder, how it affects you, and your part in the relationship. I hope you are able to come up with a solution that works for you.

Thanks unicorn 

Deep down I know what I must do... .I'm just having tremendous difficulty doing it. For example, here's what my typical scenario will look like:

I wake up to a few texts from her. They're usually friendly, or asking how my day is, or something funny, or one of countless inside jokes of ours. I feel compelled to reply and so I do. We go back and forth all day like this, maybe 20 texts each. It can be pretty sporadic though, usually with me waiting for replies for quite a while. Sometimes I'll ask if she's free or wants to do something. Sometimes she is, sometimes she isn't. Usually isn't recently.

I don't know 100% if I've been replaced. I assume because of the random guys that have shown up on her Facebook comments flirting with her. I only call them creepy because some of them are old enough to be her grandfather. But she hasn't told me outright that she's seeing anyone. There are strong indications she is. And also this is BPD so I think it's a safe assumption?

Sometimes I'll flirt with her and she'll laugh or say "you're so bad" but she doesn't reciprocate, She never has though so that's nothing new. If I do it in person, sometimes her body language is enough to know she's not offended and she likes the attention.

I offer support here and there as I've always done, and she seems appreciative for the most part but also very distant at times.

I have a decent grasp of BPD. I understand some of it but there are mysteries that still perplex me. Like object constancy. I really don't exist unless I'm face to face? She must think of me or I must cross her mind, or she wouldn't text me. I understand the push/pull. But I'm neither in push or pull right now. I guess push if it's one or the other.

I know I deserve better. To be treated better. I deserve real love and companionship. I desire it with her but I don't think I'll ever achieve it.

Sometimes I feel like saying "I know what you're doing. You're telling this guy he's your soulmate. He probably has low sf esteem and being older age, the attention and love bombing he's receiving from someone half his age who is sexy and alluring probably feels amazing, like he hit the jackpot. He's probably thinking you're his soulmate too. Chances are he feels like he's rescuing you from your psychotic ex, look at him go that white knight! But you and I both know what happens in a few months down the road, that's right! Suddenly he's no good any more! He's done something or said something to upset you and now he's devalued. He has no idea what's going on! You were his soulmate! And then you disappear from his life!"

I feel like if she heard me say this, maybe it would break the cycle, motivate her to do everything to prove me wrong. Why are they incapable of seeing the pattern? How many psychotic, abusive sob story ex boyfriends/girlfriends need to be left in a trail behind them before they realize the problem is actually how they behave?

The other poster suggested telling the truth. Telling her it's too painful for me and so I must end this and say goodbye for good. I'm just trying to find the courage to do so. Maybe there's a middle ground where I keep my communication succinct. She asks how I am, I say "ok". And nothing more. She asks what I'm doing and I say "not much". Until I'm nothing but a memory in the background but haven't actually said "goodbye". Thoughts? Would that be a good way to proceed. I love her. And I miss her. And I don't want to say goodbye unless I have no other choice.

Thanks for listening to my nonsensical ramblings. I apologize for spelling (hard to type on phone!)

Hi Lost Ghost,

I guess the question is, with your knowledge of Bpd, and the fact she sounds like she's not in treatment, is she capable of giving you the kind of r/s you want? Based on what you've said I would have to say no. If you think otherwise then that would be a reason to stay in the r/s and work on it. We have a right to want the kind of r/s that is good for us, but we can not compel the other person to behave accordingly so they will fit in with our version of reality. Generally for a r/s to work it has to have two people who want the same thing. I hope you are able to come to some peace and understanding with this very difficult issue. You are not alone. 

Hi unicorn,

You're absolutely correct. Without treatment, there is no hope to achieve the kind of relationship either of us are looking for. If she came back looking to recycle, I would be inclined to suggest I would consider it only if she was wiling to seek help and I would stand by her side through that process. I am prepared to sacrifice for her and have been sometime. I haven't shut off the connection I have or the love I feel even if she has.

Some of her long time contacts have grown frustrated with her too. They told her that she's had a history of awful relationships and finally along comes me, they've met me, they know me, and they see I'm the best she's ever had, and she still discarded me. All she could say to them was "we didn't fit". Huh?

I had a realization about a week ago. I always misinterpreted being painted white as they are looking to reengage and recycle you. But then I read posts saying that they don't love you or  miss you, they value the "attachment". So it doesn't matter what form I come in I guess, as long as I'm present in her life, she's happy with that? I got my hopes up thinking oh good, she's painting me white so a recycle is coming just like before, only this time we can work on this through therapy. But it didn't come. I'm always learning more every day, and this seems like something I should have known long ago!

I will consider my options, but feel I will struggle with this for some time. The longer I stay attached, the harder it becomes.

So here's something that caught me off guard... .she updated her profile pic and I liked it and commented on it. There were about 30 other likes and half a dozen comments. When I checked back a few hours later my comment was gone. I texted her and asked did you delete my comment or did I forget to hit submit? And she said "I deleted it lol sorry! I got a lot of messages about it. I'm sorry xxxx!"

I apologized to her for commenting on her photo and said I thought it was funny, she said "It was! It just got people asking me a lot of questions!"

What is that supposed to mean?  

I realize I shouldn't bother analyzing these little events as it's pointless, but I'm curious I guess... .

FYI, my xBPDgf continued to be in contact with her Xs (plurals) even while she was in with me heavily. I guess that would give her a sense of control, of being very important , of being wanted by all these men. In a way, I think your x's continuance of texting with you and yet keeping a distance, is her way of being important, of being in control . That certainly  feeds their ego.

I guess her deleting your fb post is that she wants to keep the appearance that she is available.

I agree with the last post. The deletion of your comment sucks. She's cultivating the impression that she is not taken or maintaining a picture consistent with drawing closer to someone else. Yuck.

It was that kind of stuff that caused me to bring a very similar "intimate friends" scenario with my ex to an end. It was indeed very harsh and painful for us both that I did that. It was also essential because it was draining my life force to be used in that way by someone I'd loved very purely and who had (mis-)led me to believe I was terribly special and unique.

Thank you both for your replies and your input. I texted her asking who it was that had a problem with my comment that she felt the need to remove it but she hasn't replied so far. She apologized to me, using her nickname for me but that's about it. As you say, she's projecting some kind of appearance to someone out there but still trying to maintain some kind of stability with me. I went on there later on and saw more comments etc but she hasn't liked anything now even though she's been signed in and out.

I think I am ready to let her go. More importantly, that I must. I don't like feeling like I've been swept under the rug like I'm invisible or like she's ashamed of me in front of her contacts. This suggests to me I mean less to her than the opinions of random people.

I feel I will say something like: xxxx, I understand if you are unable to speak with me any more. I see how conflicting and confusing it must be for you to try and maintain a friendship with me, and the questions you get from your social circle about our interactions no doubt put you in a strange spot. I know how much you care about our friendship and how difficult it is to say what you need to right now because you are a kind person and don't want to hurt me. I think anyone would feel this way. So I will make this easier for you by being the one to say goodbye. This isn't an easy decision for me but I feel it has become necessary to prevent any further suffering for either of us. I valued you as a partner and as my best friend these last two years and it pains me to do this but the time has now come for us to part ways. Thank you for everything we shared together, for all the memories and experiences I will take with me. I won't forget you and I wish you all the best in your future. Love, xxxx"

I guess I have no choice?

Maybe she's not even BPD. She seemed very lucid and understanding. Didn't seem to care or mind at all... .not the reaction I expected. We had a two way conversation. I deactivated my Facebook. She said I didn't have to do that. I told her it was easier to detach for now, I might get it back later. She said she understood. I told her no more gifts, no more flirting, no more dinners, no more massages, no more singing, no more dancing, no more romantic gestures. She's just very calm and accepting of it. I guess now I start the recovery process. I'll retire any notion of being recycled. I don't sense any interest from her whatsoever.

What a sad day it has come to this.

Hi Lostghost

Im sorry you had to go through this. Her reaction was very cold and Im sure felt very invalidating.

Its a hard road ahead but your better equipped than I ever was and I made it ok.

Whether or not she has BPD doesn't matter in the long run. Her behaviour speaks for itself. Do you really want to be strung along by someone that it would appears to have only used you to meet their needs and not reciprocated it?

I wish you luck and we are here for you when you need us.

EM

Thank you for your support EM!

It definitely does seem like I was used and then discarded.

There's a finality to it this time around. She speaks very calmly and clearly in ways I haven't heard her speak before. She doesn't appear to be ruled by emotions which is surprising to me. She even gave me closure today. I asked what I did wrong, what she's looking for in a partner. And she said "I need someone who understands I want to be friends with every guy, not in a sexual way. I need someone who isn't jealous about that." Being friends with every guy as I witnessed it meant having a dozen or more orbiters she'd text, email, snapchat throughout the day and night, almost 24/7. She'd take her phone in the bathroom with her or pull the covers over her head and call me crazy/jealous if I questioned the behaviour.

I didn't jade when she gave me this reason for breaking up, though I wanted to. I wished her luck and told her I hope she finds that kind of partner.

Last time around I believed in my heart she would return. This time around, I don't feel it. Is it rare for a pwBPD to act this way post breakup? She seems very clear.

L.G.

I've read through this thread more then a couple of times & you're story seems so very much like mine. I went/am going through the same thought process, second guessing you have done & continue to do. In one post you mentioned, "eep down I know what I must do... .I'm just having tremendous difficulty doing it.  then in another post you say,  Considering this - I don't know why I want her back, or more specifically, the relationship. There's plenty I find appealing about her. She is my illicit drug of choice I suppose. I am suspended somewhere between addiction and detox. I know what I must do for me which is absolute NC and yet, she isn't a drug is she? She's a human being with very real fears. I do not want to abandon her, or cause her emotional pain or suffering. I don't want to exacerbate her BPD or the symptoms. I enjoy her as an individual, our friendship (?) is a strong connection. I cannot go on like this though.

In the last sentence, you leave & come back all in once sentence more then once. I've done the same thing ... .time & time again. I read post from all categories & compare them to my own experiences. Like you I've come to learn that nothing is going to change even though she's going through continued therapy. Like you I know that I must go completely NC & THAT INCLUDES ANY SOCIAL MEDIA CRAP LIKE FACEBOOK!  Like you in the beginning she was like a drug for me, the passion, the intimacy amazing ... .like you that was 2 yrs ago. Like a roman candle it faded & fell to the ground.  Like you I'm a "friend" & she has a bf ... .and I will admit there have been more then one night we've been together ... .but also like you the intimacy has faded ... .getting a kiss from her was like I had ebola.  She would text like yours does & like you I want to resist but hey I'm a nice guy and replay to quickly. She would call just to say hi so she said, but in reality she was checking to see if I had someone with me, I was out on a date or if I was at someone else's house. Like others have said ... .this is a control thing for her, to keep me around when the others have been painted black. Like you I want the very best for her, she more than anyone else I know deserves to be happy with the horrors she has had to endure. But I can't change that & they've damaged her very being ... .maybe with more therapy, (she's had 25 yrs so far) she'll have a semi normal life ... .maybe. I'm not responsible for her ... .and I deserve to be happy as well.

I would encourage you to watch Gone Girl ... .the female exhibits BPD behavior & I realized that I was Patrick Harris ... .the man who would ALWAYS take her back with open arms and comfort her, protect her no matter what was going on in her life. We have been recycled, reengaged far to many times because the emotion they triggered in the beginning we're trying disparately to get it back. It's like a heroin addict ... .always needing a fix to get back to the nirvana they had with the first hit ... .but there will never be anything like that first high with them ... .or with us ... .ever.

You mentioned you looked yourself in the mirror ... .I did that recently ... .I asked myself the following questions. DO I want to continue down this path of mayhem, drama, raging, accusations, the triangles, the constant non stop crazy train roller coaster ride? Now in addition to that you have to ask yourself the following ... .Would she be a good mother to my children? Would she show your children what a good, mutually respectful, loving, caring relationship is suppose to be like? Or will  your children see you 10-15 years from now a broken soul, trying to hold on to reality? Will they see how she treats you & realize that is how women do treat men? Or vise versa if your a female reading this post ... .God knows I don't want to offend anyone & be PC.      

You said you know what you have to do ... .you know you don't want to live the life you're currently living any longer. You know you want a loving, mutually respectful relationship that you deserve. I came to the realization I too ... .you have to reach that point where you know it's time to get off the crazy train. YOU are responsible for YOU & YOUR happiness!  Remember the 3 C's of BPD ... .YOU didn't Cause it!  YOU can't Control it! YOU sure as hell can't Cure it!  This happen long before you came along ... .it's not fair to her or anyone who has BPD. Yes they've had some really traumatic Sh!t happen to them ... .that's not your fault ... .that's not my fault.  You can get up & look in the mirror with the knowledge you tried hard to make it work. You learned all that you could about BPD and what caused it, what they do, and what the future holds for them. You have decided that you need to live your life for you ... .we all need to live our life for ourselves ... .not for anyone else. You only get one life ... .it can end at any time ... .L.G. you deserve to be happy ... .laughing, enjoying the weekends with someone, movies, bowling, weekend getaways.  You need to respect yourself, you need to love yourself before you can love anyone else.

there has to be a finality to it ... .my first exBPDgf from 20 years ago still stalks me, interjects herself into my BPD mother & sisters lives to keep a tab on me. I'm full NC with my sister now and ignore my mothers calls when I don't want to talk to her.  Doing the same to her isn't any different. You can't comment on her FB page anymore, you can't text her back, you can't call her anymore or all the bad feelings, the emotions, the anxiety, the chest tighten, shortness of breath, feelings of dread will all come back. I won't lie to you ... .it's hard & it's going to suck in the beginning. But in the military we're taught if you do something for 30 days you form a habit ... .after 30 days of FULL NC ... .it'll get easier ... .trust me. In the mean time, reconnect with all your friends you've lost along the way ... .reach out to old friends you haven't talked to in along time & get caught up with them. Call them up & go to a guy movie ... .go for a burger & a beer. Get out & do something physical ... .this is VERY IMPORTANT!  You'll release all that stress & anxiety that is building up in your body & you'll feel much better afterwards. Even a mile walk ... .a bike ride ... .a hike ... .do something to get the heck out of the house & keep doing it. Ramp it up after a week ... .but keep doing it. It'll help more then you can possibly imagine.

I like what you have said you're going to say her ... .but make sure you say there will be no more of us ... I won't reach out to you any more ... .there can't be anymore contact between the two of us. And before you know it ... .you're eyeballing someone you want to go out with and you'll enjoy it. 

I wish you strength for what you are going through & what you will be going through. I wish you peace for your soul ... I wish for you to heal quickly ... .

J

JQ,

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out to me. I've tried to digest everything you've said and agree with what you've said. Your situation did/does sound very similar to mine. I watched Gone Girl a while back and it was a little terrifying how much it reminded me of her. I too felt like Neil Patrick  

You mention that she wouldn't kiss you like you had Ebola. I went through the same thing. Prior to that she'd have her tongue as far in my throat as it could go, grinding her body on me like a crazy lust machine. Fast forward a few months and she'd give me a peck if I was lucky. I thought I had bad breath, bad teeth, that I was an awful kisser. I didn't (and still don't 100%) understand what happened. But it kills me to think she's love bombing someone else right now. The rejection really takes a toll on your self esteem and confidence.

You're right, I'm chasing that initial high that's there in the first 3 months. It was the same in the recycle. I didn't think it would be because I've read the recycles don't last as long and you don't get idealization again, but I actually did in my case. About 6 months of idealization and then poof!

I do go back and forth a lot in my thought process don't I? I float between all three boards trying to gather as much information as I can. Every thread feels useful to me, every story similar to mine divides my pain.

To answer your questions... .I don't think she'd be a good mother if I had to be honest. And I'd probably be a terrible father if I was paired with her because I'd be a codependent doormat.

I do workout a lot and I have my hobbies and they do help.

I think I'm just chasing the high of idealization. When both partners are in that mode, it's pure ecstasy. Also chasing the period between idealization and devaluation where you kind of feel like a normal, happy couple. You share moments together, laugh, play, cuddle, dance. Those times were great. I ever dealt with rages or violence as she was a quiet waif. The abuse came in other forms, like withdrawal of affection, sex, intimacy. She even claimed to be asexual. Oh? After 15+ years of sexual escapades? Hmmm... .I guess anything is possible, but I can't help but feel she's not telling her new partner that she's asexual.

I talked to her briefly today. I think she's almost fully detached from me. She seems very unaffected by my departure or anything I've said, just a "meh" attitude, which hurts. Used to be her "soulmate", now she talks to me less than facebook acquaintances or strangers.

When I'm out and about, I smile at every one and make eye contact. I see all the eye candy out there and I try to chat with girls if they give me a look or a smile. I know I could have another partner. But... .I'm not ready. I want to be able to offer the best version of myself. I have much work ahead. And like Neil Patrick Harris in the movie, if she called me up and said she was coming over... .I don't yet have the strength to say no. That is my first goal, to be able to say NO!

She seems super detached this time though. Which makes me ask, do pwBPD actually give up on you eventually? Like one recycle and now they think you're worthless, no use keeping you any more? Or is it likely she will second guess her emotions in the future? Spectrum disorder and they're all different I guess.

LOngghost:

I think you will feel much better being the one that pulls the trigger. Your mind and your conscience will be clear as the r.s is finalized. There will times for whatifs, coulds, shoulds, but you have to keep moving on.

Trust me, there are so much more good & normal people out there. They might not be as pretty or as sexy, but one thing you will notice is a sense of peace, of calmness, of trusting.  You can feel good that one day when you are old, and sick, that person will be there for you. If you are a fan of DOWNTON ABBEY, then I will quote a line from Mr. Bates to his wife, when she cries and refuses his help:

Mr. Bates: When you are married , you are not supposed to cry alone.

YEs, we are not supposed to cry alone but with BPD , I can assure you that we will cry alone.

Good luck, my friend and MAY you have all the green lights.

Good Morning L.G.!

It's a new day ... .Which reminds me of a song that Nina Simone sang ... .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Y11hwjMNs

"Feeling Good"

Birds flyin' high, you know how I feel

Sun in the sky, you know how I feel

Breeze driftin' on by, you know how I feel

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me.

Yeah, it's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me, ooh... .

And I'm feelin' good.

Fish in the sea, you know how I feel

River runnin' free, you know how I feel

Blossom on the tree, you know how I feel

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me,

And I'm feelin' good

Dragonfly out in the sun, you know what I mean, don't you know,

Butterflies all havin' fun, you know what I mean.

Sleep in peace when day is done: that's what I mean,

And this old world is a new world and a bold world for me... .

Stars when you shine, you know how I feel

Scent of the pine, you know how I feel

Yeah, freedom is mine, and I know how I feel...

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me

[scat]

And I'm feel in'... .good.

________________________________________________

It's a new dawn ... .it's a new day for the both of us ... .and we're feeling good !   I actually do. I had been getting calls late in night or more like it very early in the morning or a text in crazy hours in the morning ... .again ... .i believe it was a way for her to continue to exert her control over me, contacting me at her schedule & seeing if I had "company". Knowing I would answer either her call or text. I haven't been sleeping well so I thought instead of waiting for her call/text from her I would turn the volume down on my phone so I would never hear it & I did sleep better.  Now with my first cup of coffee 1/2 gone, reading your's & Onceconfused post I know that it's time to poop or get off the pot, fish or cut bait, "insert your analogy here",   lol   Once Confused speaks the truth ... .you can only stair down the rifle scope so long ... .before pulling the trigger. I'm sending the round down range     How about you?  

I'm in the devaluation stage with her, like you it's "meh" ... .for to long I've been in a reactive mode vise a proactive mode. I've been reacting to her rages, I've been jumping through hoops like a circus animal to somehow try to improve our relationship, to show her how much I do care, love her, etc. & today that stops. I've gotten to the point where no matter what I do, this crazy train is never going to stop ... .it's perpetual. No matter what I say, do it'll never be enough. The rages will still continue the triangles will still continue, the mistrust will still continue ... .everything will still continue. It's time to go proactive ... .being retired military it feels good to get back to the proactive side of things ... .I control what I do or say not her or anyone else. It's time ... .its been a long time coming. Like Once Confused points out, I know there will be what ifs, should of, could of, but i know there is nothing more I could do or say to change her mind ... .she has, like your's has a mental disorder and will always have it. I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR MYSELF & MY OWN HAPPINESS! NO ONE ELSE IS!    

You asked, " Which makes me ask, do pwBPD actually give up on you eventually? Like one recycle and now they think you're worthless, no use keeping you any more? Or is it likely she will second guess her emotions in the future?"   The simple truth is, no they won't give up on you. My first exBPDgf is proof positive of that 20 years later. And from recent experience of being in the same room with her for a period of time, she is still the lead engineer on her crazy train. Evidence suggest that no matter what or how much treatment or therapy she'll get she'll always have the behavioral illness. No matter how much you love her, or I love mine, it's never going to cure them ... .let me say that again ... .NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOVER HER OR I LOVE MINE IT'S NEVER GOING TO CURE THEM!  All our good intentions, love, caring is never going to be enough ... .that my friend is the plain simple truth. Remember the 3rd C? We can't CURE it!. I knew I never could, but thought somehow I could help her improve just a little bit. That was an illusion on my part ... .a hangover effect from the nirvana high from the beginning. Well brother I'm sober ... .that was a damn strong cup of coffee I had this morning.     SHE WILL NEVER "SECOND GUESS" her emotions anytime in the future ... .so stop thinking she will. Put out the lit candle you have for her. She will recycle you just as she has with others. I was looking back at some of the things she told me over the last 2 yrs & realized that she has been recycling 1 military professional for 30 plus years & he allows it. He is truly a codependent, not the best looking guy, short ... .but she continues to text/sext him in stay in touch with him via FB in addition to others she maintains contact with via FB. I've mentioned it, she tells me it's a sign of insecurity on my part, well not really, so I've unfriended her on FB & I'm ok with it, REALLY! I know she didn't ask for her behavioral illness ... .I know that she's experienced horrors that no child should ever have to. I know that she will always have this behavioral issue ... .I only wish for her that she'll find some peace on some level ... .but my thinking is ... .she never will. Her demons are to strong to ever be slain ... .she will forever be at war with them ... .

By unfriended your exBPDgf you do 2 important things. YOU show her that YOU are in control of YOUR life & not her. YOU show her that YOU are moving on in your life & she's not part of it. You've taken your life back and you're feeling good!    

You're a smart guy ... .you already know that you can go out & interact with other women & they with you. BUT, you also know that you have some more work to do on yourself to get to a better place ... .as do I. We all do. Since you said you, "on't have the strength to say no yet", might I suggest that you go full NC. This means blocking her number so you get no more text or calls ... .for me not getting woke up in the middle of the night is going to be a good thing.  UNFRIEND HER ON FB  And lock down your account to only friends. If you share mutual friends she can still see what you post or vise versa.  This does 2 things as well, you won't go out & snipe her & it prevents her from sniping you ... .this helps you heal yourself, helps you get to that better place so that you can have the mutual respectful, loving & caring relationship that you want.  FULL NC!

Then continue to come here ... .continue doing what your doing here ... .reach out for a friend ... .we've all been there, we all know how hard it is. And I'll put the offer out there for you , you can contact me via email this website & we can have a beer telling each other what our exBPDgf are doing to try & paint us white and we can assist & resist the temptation ... .falling off the wagon. Deal?  In the meantime keep working out, burn off that extra energy, frustration, anxiety ... .go get a beer & burger with a buddy.

Like Nancy Reagan use to say to kids about drugs you say the same thing about your exBPDgf ... ."JUST SAY NO"!   lol

It's a new dawn ... .it's a new day ... .it's a new life for me !

J

OnceConfused, JQ,

Thank you both for your replies and encouragement! We're all in this together! Everything you say makes resounding sense. It's going to sink in, I have to believe it. The best revenge is to live a good life.

I had a moment of weakness last night, pulling out my credit card to join her favourite dating website to see if she was on it. I stopped halfway through entering my credit card and said "No, what the heck are you doing?".

I think I'm curious who she's attracting, or attracted to. I'm also desperate to find out who she's with. Trying to verify if I was even her type. Why is this important to me? No idea, but I'm glad I didn't go through with it. I know I'm still physically/emotionally attached because I scrolled through literally hundreds (maybe a thousand) of profiles on free dating sites and I didn't even see one that caught my eye. I hope that changes in time because I have a lot to offer and someone out there has a lot to offer me!

You are correct, I can't cure her. This next guy won't either unless he has mystical powers. The only way they'll last if he's an even bigger doormat than I was.

I'm sipping my coffee now too and I think I feel ok today. We will see what happens by night. It's now been near 24 hours NC which doesn't seem a lot but it's a start! No longer have facebook. I'd have to go out of my way to look her up and I intend on staying away. Haven't blocked her phone number yet so she can still text but she hasn't tried. All signs point to... .I've been replaced! Which makes me feel sad and sick. But it also has me questioning why would I take her back now if she wanted back? What is the sob story going to be? "Oh I missed you so much and being with this other guy made me realize how great we were together!" Oh? I would be skeptical of such words this time around! I really can't see her coming back around this time though, just a gut feeling but I could be wrong. I feel like she burned too many bridges. If she came back again, her friends and family would all be scratching their heads in total confusion and I don't think she wants that awkwardness.

I actually feel her fading from me. Thinking of her with a replacement, touching him like she touched me, telling him the words that used to be mine, it kind of repulses me on every level. That's forcing me to let go. The first time around I took a lot of blame because I acknowledged I could have done better if I had the tools. The second time around I did everything I could, gave everything I could, remained calm and level at all times. Supported her in her darkest hour. Still not enough. She consumed me like a black hole and reduced me to a shell.

I admire those on the staying board. Either they're better at this than I am or their BPD partners are more reasonable or willing to work on their relationships. To still be discarded after everything I did, that's a low blow and the ultimate disrespect! The longer it's gone on like this being completely one sided, being friend zoned and her treating me like I am invisible and don't have feelings... .the more my beautiful memories of her are turning to dust and ash, leaving a bitterness in my heart.

I anticipate she won't text at all today. We shall see!  Thank you for your support. Strength be with us all!

L.G.,

You are certainly welcome for the support ... .we've all been there and some will be there again ... .just pay it forward with your experiences.  From your last post I see that you've made a step forward ... .but at the same time I can see some doubt as admitted. It's ok ... .we all take a step backward every once in awhile ... .the real INNER strength comes when you regain your balance, lean forward and take the next step to a better place. That's what this place is for ... .we'll even put out a helping hand to pull you up and along when needed.

I got to say L.G., you've taken the right approach ... .taken down your Facebook account. I'm actually in the process myself ... .I'm reaching out to a couple of military brothers & sisters to get phone numbers and once I have those, my FB profile is going dark. I figure those who actually want to stay in touch with me either have or will have my number. FB has become fill with to much daily drama & with the presidential election 16 months away it's becoming more of a political too and I don't really want or need that crap. SO GOOD JOB ON YOU BROTHER!

Take your time ... .you have to heal & find out why you were attracted to her in the first place? Therapy really helped me find out who I was at the core & I found out I was a product of a mother who was BPD & an absent alcoholic father. I learned that I was a care giver / a codependent & knowing where I come from I can now go forward. I would encourage you to do the same brother.

I commend you on the great restraint you showed with not joining the dating website ... .that took a lot of strength. Just take a deep breath and let things go ... .you really shouldn't care who she is or isn't attracting. Even if you found out would it really matter? Would it change anything? Remember, that NOTHING DOES OR EVER WILL MAKE SENSE WITH BPD!       Here's another question ... .You've only gone partial NC ... .again I commend you on the FB thing ... .but you haven't blocked her number so she can still call you ... .she can still text you and you know what?  YOU WILL ANSWER HER CALL ASAP! YOU WILL TEXT HER BACK ASAP!   How do I know? Because I've done it ... .I'm sure most of us in here have done it.  Mine texted me ... ."HI" ... .within seconds I texted back "HI there how are you? ... .crickets ... .no response for at least a week. It was her way of telling me she was in control of the relationship and i will talk to you or text you when I want & you will answer me ... .MUAHHAHAHA  >:-)    So, I started not answering her text ASAP ... .then within an 30-60 minutes she would text again. Then when I still wouldn't respond with in the same time period or sooner she would call & I would let it go to voice mail ... .she wouldn't leave a VM ... .she wanted to show me that she was still in control.  When I did answer her call she would say "oh I ... .jus wanted to say hi".  I'm thinking no you didn't, then she said, "It sounds like your busy ... .so i'll let you go" and I would say, "ok, talk to you later". OORRR ... .she would say, "Hi ... .jus called to say hi ... .oh I'm sorry ... .I didn't know you had company." my response, "What makes you think I have any company",  she would respond, "Oh I thought I heard a female voice in the back ground saying thank you." when in reality I shut the tv off before I answered her call ... .you could hear a mouse walk across the carpet. SO you tell me what was she really doing? Finding out if I was alone and had replaced her yet?  TRUST ME SHE WILL DO THE SAME!   

Question is, what are you going to do when she text or calls you? Will you let it go to VM or will you answer it ... .letting her know she's still in control & that you will come running like a puppy when she whistles. You're on the right track of thinking ... .would you take her back? You can't see her coming back at this point  in time but Once Confused & I along with many other stories you've read have told you they will be back ... .they will recycle ... .they will call, text, knock on your door, Facebook you ... .have you forgotten about Neil Patrick Harris in Gone Girl already? Here's a couple of hints that will help you through the transition of getting to the other side.

Put your phone on silent ... .NOT vibrate, then put it face down across the room and leave it. that way you won't jump up the microsecond she calls or text. Don't keep checking it either ... .it serves no purpose to do it but torture you. If a buddy calls just explain to them that you had the phone on silent to catch some sleep or something.  AND DON'T TORTURE YOURSELF BY THINKING OF HER WITH THE REPLACEMENT!!   This serves no purpose but to torture you so why do it?

It's not about revenge ... .but to live a good healthy life with a partner in life if you choose. Remember that they have been damaged to the core of their very being by events that you, me or others can't begin to comprehend. You have to accept the fact that no matter what you say, do to prove you love her it won't matter ... .even with years of therapy.  They were developmentally damaged years before you ever came into the picture and even the best therapist & physiologist have a very difficult time trying to help them. Do NOT take it personal ... .it isn't. It's how they see things in the world ... .it's not logical ... .but then again we've learned that nothing in a BPD life makes sense or is logical.  A friend was helping get through the tough times ... .and they told me ... .just walk away ... .don't walk away mad ... .just walk away. And you know ... .few words have been so helpful. I learned in the military 30 days makes a habit ... .so you are in your first day of NC ... .29 more to go. YOU CAN DO IT!  BLOCK HER NUMBER!  It'll be easier on you. Those who choose to stay have their own reasons it doesn't make them any stronger then you or better then you.

Do yourself a favor right now ... .turn your phone down or even off if you're not expecting someone to call. Get something to eat ... .I'm having a glass of Cabernet and chilling ... .reflecting as I write this and knowing that I took the right path. I'm not stressing, wondering who's she with, wondering what she's doing with them ... .I like you did that ... .yeah nothing good came after that. SOO DON'T FREAKING DO IT!    Just take a deep breath ... .grab a glass of wine & relax ... .go see a guy movie ... .I'm thinking I'm in for a damn good burger tonight ... .I haven't decided yet ... .it's good to have choices. 

If for some reason you find yourself in a week moment and want to text or call her ... .jump on here and reach out ... .someone will be here for you ... .if you find she has text you because you picked up your darn phone that you weren't suppose to and you didn't block her numbers YET   ... .then jump on here and start writing and reach out instead of texting her ... .

we got your back ... .you'll get through this ... .you'll be stronger for it ... .you'll be better for it ... .

J

JQ,

As always you pose the big questions and offer sound guidance! I appreciate it! You seem to have a good grasp of my story and what I need to do.

I went to a restaurant and had a beer and burger just for you haha. It feels strange to sit alone doing that but I'll get used to it.

I like how you put the   when you talk about me possibly not blocking her number, as though you just know I won't yet. And you're right lol. I still haven't! I really have to convince myself. And you know exactly what I'm doing too (checking my phone every 20 minutes for a text). I've spaced that out to every few hours now by taking your advice. Maybe tomorrow it will be every four hours and the day after every 6 hours. Slow and steady!

This is an odd question but as I was sitting at the restaurant I was planning for my future but I kept coming up with excuses to hesitate. For instance... ."Maybe in a month or two I'll start dating again. No... .first I need to go to the gym, get more money, get a better car, get a house, get a bigger penis, get whiter teeth, change careers... .but wait to do that I'll need to do X, Y, Z in order for A, B, C to come true. Maybe I'll expand my business... .but first I'll have to do this!" And I've done this all my life sad to say. Can anyone else relate or at least point me in the direction of an illness or disorder or label that I might have going on? Why do I have these kind of circular conversations in my head? Is it normal or is there something deeper going on here that I should be concerned about?

I can only think I must have a bit of PTSD... .I "think" I need whiter teeth, because she stopped kissing me, so that must be it! But that all seems a little ludicrous. Learning a little bit more every day :) maybe it's just as simple as being afraid of rejection.

Hi Lostghost

Do you feel you need to be perfect to have the chance at a relationship?

Or are you just insecure about who you are?

L.G.,

Thank you for the words ... .but like you I've learned through experience ... .some good ... .some bad ... .but i the end I pay it forward to those who might benefit from it.  Thanks BTW for having that burger & beer ... .it's a good first step!  I know it might seem strange at first to do it by yourself ... .but actually it helped me in part to become a stronger person, know myself better. The same will happen to you ... .and if you do it on certain nights you never know who will be there doing the same thing ... .I've had a date or two just from the encounter having dinner. We shared small talk, then a beverage, a couple of laughs and then numbers.

You have to become more confident in who you are ... .it sounds like your put together pretty well ... .your own business ... .all these plans ... .you work out ... .now you have to add the self confidence. Think about it for a moment. Are women attracted to men who are shy, unsure of themselves, unknowing where they're going or what they want in the future? Or are woman attracted to men who are confident, "NOT" cocky with themselves, men who have goals, who want something better ... .remember women ... .ok ... .most women are looking for someone who would be a good provider, a good father, a good partner ... .someone who is going to protect them & the kids. You're not there yet ... .but you've taken some important steps towards getting there. Keep up the good work ... .

I see you were here when I checked online ... .then disappeared ... .I hope the hell you didn't answer a text or call from her. Remain strong brother!  I put the rolling eyes in there because I knew you didn't block her yet ... .I know your checking your phone every 20 minutes like maybe you missed the loud noise it makes along with the vibration? Really L.G.?  Turn the sound off, put the phone across the room so you actually have to get up, walk across the room & pick up the phone to check it. Then put it back down if you can't block her number yet. At least if you're getting up every 20 minutes to check for her text ... ."arf art  ... .arf art" ... .that's one of my dog impressions. SO anyway if you're getting up off the couch every 20 minutes to check for her text at least you'll be getting some exercise out of it.   lol   Then you'll get tired of that ... .so just do yourself a favor & block her number.    "bow wow ... .bow wow ... .that's my other dog impression"  

As far as the odd question ... .what you're describing isn't any different then what I've done ... .I am ... .or I am a recovering perfectionist. I planned everything out ... .I had a 5 year plan before I retired from the military & followed it to the letter. So I would say you're a perfectionist to some degree putting in order the things you need to do in order to get xyz ... .abc needs to be done first then mnop ... .your thoughts?  If you're a perfectionist ... .and the incident with your BPD ... .you're not much different then us. Because I'm not a doctor even thought I play one on the weekend   lol  jus kidding ... .or am I?    lol  But you like a lot of us here are probably codependent ... .but only going to a therapist and working things out will you find that out. Thats why I'm a recovering perfectionist ... .not everything has to be done in a certain way or to a certain degree. I wouldn't be concerned ... .but some self evaluation under the guidance of a therapist isn't a bad thing.  I've learned that I had to learn why I was the way I was in order to make a positive change within myself and because I can make a positive change within myself ... .I can move forward to a better self ... .and to a better future and I can see the warning flags ... . red-flag  of someone with BPD & walk very quickly in the other direction being careful & avoiding direct eye contact ... .  lol

Oh and your PTSD ... .whiter teeth because she stopped kissing you ... .yeah not so much brother.  Your exBPDgf probably stopped kissing you for the same reason my exBPDgf stopped kissing me. We actually had a conversation about it ... .she saw kissing me was a form of intimacy that she didn't want to share with me just yet when i spent the last time with her. I pointed out that I could & did do other intimate things to her but you're not READY to kiss me? Really?  What I come to learn is it had nothing to do with me and everything to do with her. Not kissing your s/o with BPD is common I learned ... .they see it as a form or intimacy  ... .and if they feel intimacy they start to feel "engulfment". Now when they start to feel "engulfed" in the relationship they start to paint you black ... .they start to become distant to avoid the intimacy. It's a defense mechanism built into their personality from the traumatic event they experienced. Because a parent was absent or didn't protect them when they needed it most they felt abandon ... .this lead to over whelming feelings of hurt, shame ... .imagine how you feel right now of how your exBPDgf left you ... .you feel abandon ... .you have an ginormous amount of hurt. NOW multiply that by 10,000 times and that is what someone with BPD feels ... .so in order to avoid those over whelming feelings, to avoid the anxiety of being abandon, they avoid getting close ... .they avoid being intimate.  So see it has nothing to do with you ... .so cheer up ... .you don't need to spend a lot of money on getting your teeth bleached or have vaneers put on    I can't speak to the bigger penis ... .BTW ... .I watched a show the other day & they say the average is 5 1/ 2inchs so take that for what it is.    

Now take a deep breath ... .let it out slowly ... .relax ... .you're on a good path right now ... .have you blocked her number yet?

J

EM,

I think a little from column A and B. When I look at myself, I feel confident about who I want to be and what I want out of life. But I am starting to develop a fear of rejection and failure due to my failed relationships. I start to question... .is it me? I think I know it isn't, because she's left a trail of broken men behind her as she's gone through life, one of them dead now from suicide.

Do I feel insecure? Only due to my current life circumstances. When my circumstances change, that insecurity will go away. I realize my answers sound like excuses. I probably sound unconfident and insecure.  lol

JQ,

I think you and EM hit the nail on the head: perfectionist. I think I might have those traits for sure! I enjoy writing in my free time but many times when I begin the process, I stop and say... .no, first my desk needs to be organized. Well let's not stop there, may as well clean the whole room. Well I need a cup of coffee first, better go to Starbucks. Now I need the right kind of music while I write, better spend some time on youtube. Ok, everything in order? Now I can write! It's kind of exhausting  it would be nice to just be able to do something without having to satisfy a bunch of imaginary requirements

I went to therapy after my marriage ended with my ex wife. I didn't learn much about myself  other than I was devastated, depressed, lost my self worth. I was in there for a year to deal with the trauma and when I ended it I had just met my pwBPD. I remember thinking, "All this time the only thing I needed to fix me... .was to find an even greater love." Whoops! Wrong answer. I remember my therapist told me, "That kind of love isn't real. That kind of love is a disease." I obviously didn't believe him when I was getting love bombed with all the soulmate stuff, "your ex wife is nuts, you're perfect, I can't believe I finally found you! Let's have sex 5 times a day! We'll be together forever! We're the couple from the notebook!"

And yes I am definitely a guy with codependency, white knight syndrome where much of my self worth comes from what I can do for others. I have honestly no idea why. Therapist tried to dig deep but found nothing. I think he explained some people are a product of their environment while others just ARE.

Parents are great, loving people. Siblings great. Few close friendships, many acquaintances. No abuse or trauma in my past. I was bullied in school sometimes but not nearly as bad as most kids. Most definitely have codependent traits though.

I remember reading some article about 16 signs you're in an unhealthy relationship. I had all 16 signs. And it talked about codependency vs interdependence and I felt almost insulted. I felt this is how I choose to love! What's wrong with making my relationship my #1 priority?

If I was to blame anything, maybe it's because I'm a product of Disney. Too many Disney movies as a young boy. Boy rescues princess, they fall in love, live happily ever after. Also, both sets of grandparents married for 60+ years, parents just had their 50th. I really believed in all the soulmate stuff, star crossed lovers. Which is why I fell hard for my expwBPD. I believed every word she said. Maybe she picked up on my Disney ways somehow.

Don't worry! I didn't text her haha. Haven't blocked yet though. She hasn't texted me either. Not sure if I'm surprised or not... .a little I guess? Maybe a little hurt. She hasn't thought of me once today? Sad. I don't know what I'm waiting for when it comes to blocking... .I'm afraid of the unknown, of closing that door forever, making her think I hate her or am angry with her. Apprehensive too about the awkwardness because we work together in the same office (I'm not currently at work but returning soon, so I don't know how that will be this time around).

Gone through the work situation once before. For about a month she ignored me completely and I didn't exist. Had her nose up in the air and wiggled her ass everywhere she went like she was the goddess of the earth. Then one day we bumped into each other alone in a hallway. I just walked past her and then she stopped and I heard "Hi... ." over my shoulder. I turned to face her and she looked afraid, sad, dejected? We chatted... .and chatted... .for days and days, which eventually turned into the 11 month recycle that I've posted about.

You're all good people. Wise and experienced too! I know if you've survived your situations - some infinitely more destructive and heartbreaking than what I've gone through - I should be able to survive and thrive after this.

I had a life before her (I was in a bit of a personal hell though until she "rescued" me). I've heard the phrase "trauma bonding". Maybe that's what it is. We've gone through some awful things together her and I, like her ex's suicide, it's unique to us.

I remember when I got back with her, I had to put on a facade of brain damage. I had to force myself to ignore all the terrible stuff in the first relationship, pretend it never happened, to believe this was a Disney sequel. I try to imagine a third time with her, a fourth time. It must reach a point when it's just impossible to bury the past. Eventually there will be so many skeletons in the closet that there is nothing but skeletons.    

Also thank you for your last couple paragraphs explaining once again the mechanics of a BPD relationship. I should have this memorized by now but somehow it's always enlightening to hear it again from a different person in different words! I didn't do anything that caused her to stop kissing me!

Funny story... .I asked her once why we don't kiss passionately like we used to? And she couldn't give a coherent answer. About a week later she crawled into bed and started giving me tongue like a maniac (after 7 months of pecks and no sex... .we still didn't have sex though, but kissing was good enough) and I was like WHOA! There's my girl! Where you been? What did I do to deserve that so I remember for next time. Her answer, "I saw you give the cat water, that was sweet of you!"

Huh?   it was probably the hundredth time I'd given the cat water  lol Cooking dinners, taking her to the opera, music festivals, romantic walks, massages for hours, spa dates... .no kisses for that! Any insight here?

P.S. Still no text.  

Tomorrow is the beginning of day 2!

Hi lostghost

I can understand wanting to be a perfectionist as I am the same. I see it now as my insecurity causing it. People wont like me if Im not really good at things and have flaws. I think this bleeds into my other interactions as I judge people by my own standards and can hold them accountable for having flaws.

Its a hard thing to balance. While being a perfectionist at work or on a project can be a good thing it can also go to far. If I don't think someone is capable of producing something to my standards I will normally do it myself.

The question is how do we let go of this comfortably?

Enlighten me,

You've said a couple of things that I learned ... .as a perfectionist I judge others on how I would complete the tasking or mission or job. As I've become more self aware of my actions & behavior I've come to learn that it's ok if it gets done ... .as long as it works or the job gets done or the mission is complete ... .it doesn't need to be to the standard I would have done it at. I think in some small way I felt the same way, if I didn't do something good enough people would see it as a flaw ... .for me it comes from trying to obtain approval from my father who was always absent. Whatever I did, it was never good enough ... .so I would try harder & do better ... .it still wasn't good enough. So after many hours with a therapist I learned where mine came from ... .

L.G.

Do NOT look at your past relationships as failed but look at them as experienced gained as to what you don't want. Thomas Edison was asked what he thought of failing 5,000 times to make a lightbulb to finally have success. His response, "I haven't failed, I found 5,000 ways it didn't work". So as good as you might be ... .I'm pretty confident that you haven't dated 5,000 women ... .so keep trying!    lol  

You've also learned a valuable lesson that you probably don't realize ... .NEVER ... .let me repeat this ... .NEVER date anyone that you work with!  Nothing good comes from this ... .we've all done it ... .and I'm sure it worked for someone somewhere ... .but normally it never does. I tried it not once ... .but twice after I forgot how the first one failed on a EPIC SCALE!

Oh the cat story ... .the answer didn't make sense ... .but my young Jedi ... .forgotten lesson you have ... .mmmm ... .BPD NEVER EVER WILL MAKE SENSE!  

Hey by the time you read this post it'll be time to check that phone that is turned up full volume  to check it again for her text like you missed hearing the noise & vibration      It's the weekend ... .relax ... .go work out ... .make plans to go to a buddies house & watch football & do guy stuff, drink a beer dude ... .and don't ... .DON'T ANSWER HER CALL OR TEXT!


Oh and tomorrow is day 3 ... .

lostghost

Something that helped me with the phone was to change my ringtone for my ex wife. That way I didn't panic every time it went off. I don't know if you can do this with texts from your ex as well.

It was childish but I changed her ringtone to gold digga. When it went off it made me giggle and changed my mood.

Enlighten me !

MAN THAT WAS FUNNY! I spit my coffee out when I read that you changed it to gold digga ... .to freaking funny! 

L.G.

Enlighten makes does make a point ... .UNTIL YOU BLOCK HER ... .changing the ring tone will help ID who is calling from across the room so you can fall over the ottoman getting to the phone to answer her call ... .     

EM,

I think maybe I have a bit of a combo of perfectionism and OCD? I didn't do these things when I was with her though. I was much more spontaneous and open to just go with the flow! But now it seems I follow a sequential order. I did this before she was in my life so I guess I'm falling back to old habits because they're comfortable.

I need to try and take the best of who I was before her, who I was with her and who I want to be in the future and combine them to make a whole. Learning from all of my experiences and shaping them to benefit me would be of some use I think.

Good advice about the ringtone by the way! I'd probably change it to any Taylor Swift song. I swear that girl is the poster child for BPD!

JQ,

Back to day 0 of no contact. I forgot I had some artwork I made for her (that she was expecting). I texted her to make plans to exchange. Just going to bring it into the office to give her. But still a little disappointed in myself. I figured better to get this done now than day 20 of NC! But in hindsight I should have asked for advice here like you said and weighed my options.

You know me too well my friend lol you seem to be able to anticipate my every move!

You're right, it's the weekend... .I should treat myself to a movie.

As for going out with buddies, my buddies are the kind of buddies that are married, kids, full time careers. I see them once in a very blue moon. It gets worse as the years go by. I actually have no single friends. My pwBPD was my constant companion/best friend. But if I've been replaced I guess I lose that part of us too. I was hoping by now I'd be right there with them, married, kids, family. But nope! So gym, hobbies, coming here, my business and soon work. That'll be my life for the foreseeable future! I'm planning on signing up for some activities like dance, rock climbing, martial arts, etc. but in order to that I need X, Y, Z  

I don't have any more reasons to contact or see her that I can think of. So I can't avoid her at work but outside of work, I don't think she'll be bothering with me at all. She's not seeming interested in me romantically or platonically. I've been reduced to an acquaintance or memory.  |iiii

I'm sorry for failing master yoda! Train harder, I must!

L.G.

And so the clock starts at zero       Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.

Clear your mind must be, if you are to discover the real you ... .Why wish you become Jedi? ... .Only a Dark Lord of the BPD knows of our weakness ... .mmm ... .The dark side clouds everything ... .Joined the Dark Side BPD she has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are her ways now.   A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack ... .For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is ... .You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes ... .Try not. Do... .or do not. There is no try!  

Ok, that's enough of Master Yoda for now ... .

As far as going out with single buddies ... .umm dude ... .do you think that all your buddies wifes girlfriends are married off yet? UMMM ... .NOO !   Go watch a game over at their house ... .set up a bar b q ... .Halloween is coming ... .they'll need an escort ... .go with your buddy ... .the wife sees what a nice guy you are ... .maybe sets you up with a friend of hers ... .if that doesn't work ... .take one of their kids to the grocery store ... .yeah I've used that one ... .took my nephew to the grocery store ... .   If that doesn't work ... .dogs at dog parks are always a conversation starter ... .BUUUUT ... .before yo do ANY of that ... .you need to heal yourself ... .take some time ... .do the football thing with a buddy at their house, maybe even grill burgers ... .take something with you ... .

Your are not ready young Jedi ... .

J

LOL JQ, gave me a good late night laugh, thank you my friend!

No, ready I am not. There is much work to do to master the ways of the force!

I went through my computer/phone today and put all the photographs of the relationship onto a USB and stored it in the basement. Makes it so there's a few less triggers/reminders around.

I was surprised she even replied to my texts today. She seemed excited at first but then as the day went on it was more distant/cold as per usual. 4-5 texts compared to 20-30 we used to have just after post breakup. I MUST let go. Addicted to the power and pull of the dark side I am!

The clock has started over so we shall see what happens now!

I'll keep you posted as the situation unfolds!

Thanks again for your help and everyone else's too!

My ally is this community and the force is strong with it!

L.G.

you are welcome ... .laughter is the the best medicine they say.  I've got to give you some respect on taking the photo's off the phone, computer and putting them in the basement. Your right ... .less of a trigger or a reminder. Good on you ... .it really is a good first step.

The lesson to be learned with the texting ... .excited at first ... .she still has her hooks in you & your'e squirming trying to get her attention ... .she knows she still has the power over you ... .

Stay busy with other things ... .that's the key ... .whatever your hobbies are ... .some good music of choice ... .take in a football game ... .stop by a friends house you haven't see in awhile ... .call an old friend you haven't seen in a while ... .stay busy ... .occupy your mind with other things but thoughts of you're cell phone not making that "beep" from a text from her or the ring tone "gold digga"  ... . 

J

Hey JQ,

Thanks again my friend!

I didn't wake up feeling great today. I was reading another thread on here that led me to a depression test and after answering the questions honestly, it indicated that I was severely depressed. I may not have even realized this but I should have assumed.

I'm thinking perhaps therapy might be useful again after all, or psychiatric meds like SSRI. I don't feel hopeless yet though I don't find myself enjoying a lot of my days or activities. Life is starting to lose its colour and becoming a bit too monotone for my liking. I don't know if I need to treat this proactively or just give it time. I think what I'm experiencing is pretty normal given what happened. Fairly certain I'm not the only person on here who feels this way.

It's harder when I have to know she's just running around having fun, doing whatever she wants without any sadness or second thoughts. Need a fast forward button to skip the next few months of my life. I should view this as a learning experience and opportunity for growth but all I see it as is another crap experience. I know there will come a day when I barely think of this. My ex wife rarely crosses my mind any more and that was 13 years! So let's hurry up and get to that point already, please and thank you, brain/heart!

L.G.

Hey!  You are welcome ... .GET OUTSIDE & GO FOR A FREAKING RUN  BIKE RIDE  GET OUT & ENJOY THE WEATHER & SUN!   Depending on where you are in the world, winter is around the corner & you might be up to your knees in snow soon ... .so take advantage of it while you can!  You'll be surprised how much it'll do for you both physical, mentally!  As soon as I jumped on my bicycle & riding again it put me in a better mood! Working out the stress ... .frustrations ... .& getting the tonins in the blood stream!  

As far as the being in the dumps ... .you know we've all been there!  I would agree with the therapy ... .but I'm not much into the meds thing ... .when i was going through PTSD EMDR methodology & therapy in the military the doc wanted to put me on some heavy meds ... .thanks but no thanks doc. He said it would be beneficial for me ... .I said NO THANK YOU SIR!  He told me I"ll write you the script anyway ... .I said you can doc ... .but doesn't mean I'll take them!  You should of seen the look on his face ... .an officer being told NO from a Senior Enlisted ... .then I told him ... ."tell you what doc ... .lets try the EMDR ... .& the weekly therapy and see how that works ... .then we can readdress the med issue if we need to ... .agreed?"  He agreed to it.  I've seen to many of my military buddies in a zombie like status not to mention the weight they gained from the meds ... .sure in the hell didn't need the added weight gain adding to my issues.

Young Jedi ... .DO NOT ! REPEAT DO NOT THINK ABOUT WHAT THE HELL SHE IS OR ISN'T DOING OR WHO SHE IS DOING IT WITH OR NOT DOING IT WITH!   THIS SERVES NO PURPOSE BUT TO DRIVE YOU DEEPER INTO THE DIRT!  

Seriously ... .get out of the apartment / house / trailer / your cardboard box today and enjoy the weather!  Enjoy the small things ... .the leaves changing ... .the nip in the air ... .Google what is happening in your town today and pick one !   Go see a movie ... .Like "The Martian" , "Bridge of Spies", "Sicario", "Maze Runner, scorch trials"  OO IT!  Let me know which one you went to ... .then I want a 500 word report on it & ... .just kidding   lol   But I'm thinking I have Bridge of Spies or The Martian or Sicario on my radar ... .

Have you even taken a damn shower yet today?  GET YOUR BUTT MOVING! GET OUT  ! GET OUT  !

let me know what movie you see ... .let me know if it's good enough to spend my afternoon matinee ... .

J

 :sign_attn:

Ok man! Haha I'm getting out of my cardboard box today! I texted every friend I have to see if they want to go to the movies. If nobody does I'll just go on my own :)

I have showered don't worry haha! I still take care of my daily hygiene! :)

I'll stay off the meds for now! I'll wait another month or two and see what my status is like then. This NC isn't easy!

Ahhh ... .I knew that smell wasn't me ... .so you know ... .jus saying   lol   

NC isn't easy in the beginning ... .but remember ... .30 DAYS MAKES A HABIT!  You can do this!   

JQ, go see... .the Martian!  |iiii

Put my headphones on, listened to some chill music and went for a 10K run in the park, smiled and waved at every attractive female I saw and they all waved and smiled back. It did help me feel better today. Thoughts of ex, her replacement, what they're doing on their first dates, are they doing all the things we did, experiencing that magical idealization together... .those are drifting in and out of my mind throughout the day. I'm trying to just banish those thoughts, because they're not welcome. Day 1 almost down.