BPDFamily.com

Hello, new to this board.

Long story short, my stbxh was arrested, 40 days in jail, grand jury no billed him, had visitation with son in 2009-2010. My son lived with me throughout. We moved in together after year of court proceedings and that's when he was most violent. Never hit me or son but destroyed stuff next to my head, constant screaming, yelling trying to fight me. We all moved in with my parents after about four months due to his horrible lack of managing money. He calmed down but could not trust him so he has not been alone with my son since then, unless I use the restroom. An incident a couple weeks ago made me stop that too.

Husband has agreed to separation and first on list is no contact alone with son in or out of the house per our current safety plan. We will notarize it this Friday and he has read and agreed to every item. I am looking to get divorced asap after he signs the agreement. I have read a ton of info and most judges try to keep child with both parents. I LITERALLY do all care for my son. He has no idea how to. I don't think he will fight for him, only if he is pressured to by his family to not APPEAR the bad guy. I also have recorded FB conversations that say he isn't worried about son just wanted to get back to Florida last year. Same time he also signed an un notarized paper sent in to Job and Family Services stating he wanted to divorce me and give up all rights to my son.

What do you think my chances are? It terrifies me to think he could ever be alone with him. My son has limited ability to explain things due to autism. He likes his dad but is also afraid of him. All interaction with my son and him is fake because stbxh doesn't know how to interact with him. It's pretty obvious too. Rare for interaction to even occur in the first place.

Please advise. This is the reason I held on to marriage so long but can't do it anymore. He is uBPD.

Here are some quick points that will help, I'm sure others will respond as well.

• Agreements signed outside of court or a court order may not be enforceable, especially if he changes his mind and tells the judge he's changed his mind.  We're remote anonymous peer support, so seek legal advice for your own specific circumstances.  If so, then you might need a Guardian ad Litem (GAL - lawyer for the child) or a custody evaluator (CE).  But if he's agreed not to be alone with your child then that makes a good case to seek supervised contact at the very least.



• There are various level of legal status (depending on the state, local court and your specific circumstances) which is not necessarily directly linked to a specific parenting schedule.  As an overview of general legal categories that your state/court may consider, in descending order for you... .
  
     Full/Sole legal custody and he has no parental rights
  
     Full/Sole legal custody and he has some parental contact
  
     Joint legal custody, you have Decision Making and he has some parental contact
  
     Joint legal custody, you have Tie Breaker and he has some parental contact
  
     Joint legal custody, must seek mediation or court for major legal issues if not in agreement and he has some parental contact



• Courts generally prefer joint custody unless there is substantive child abuse, endangerment or neglect.  Of course, you know your situation best and if you have concerns then by all means present as good a case to the professionals for what you consider best for you and especially your child.



• Courts often give less attention to the adult behaviors (between the parents) and focus the most attention on the parenting behaviors (impacting the child's welfare).  So give priority of time, energy and strategy to what most affects the child.



• Courts often limit scrutiny of individual incidents to the prior 6 months before the case was filed.  However, older incidents can be used to demonstrate a pattern of behaviors.



• Documentation is very important if the other parent is in Denial mode.  Vague claims such as "he always... ." or "she always... ." may be heard and discounted as too vague, expansive and effectively 'hearsay'.  So keep a log or journal of incidents, dates, locations, witnesses, and other details.



• Have a strategy for success.  Have backup plans and a variety of strategies for whichever direction the case takes.



• Lawyer should be experienced, proactive and more than the standard forms filer and hand holder.  Interview several lawyers if you need to in order to find a good one that you're comfortable with.  Most lawyers expect a case to settle because most parents are reasonably normal.  Our cases are much more difficult and though they often do end in settlements (eventually) the path to get there is arduous, tortured and difficult.



• Your case might not be as hard as others described here since you are already the clear primary parent, he's already living as a supervised parent and he seems to recognize his parenting limitations.

ForeverDad,

Thank you for responding, although your answers are pretty much what I feared... .This is why I've held off separating/divorcing him for so long, I'm terrified of the possible consequences for my son. At least now, there is no judge to discount my legitimate concerns and I can keep my son safe by being here all the time. However, I don't want to do this song and dance with my stbxh anymore. And even though life is a hell of it's own with him here, or separated, at least I can control his contact with his dad. I mean, I'm all for joint parenting if both parents want time with their kids and just can't be with each other. I don't and won't bash him in front of him and still wonder HOW in the world I'm going to tell him about the things that have already transpired when he's old enough without making stbxh look like a monster to him... .But, in my particular case, he should NEVER have contact alone with my son. He gets frustrated and angry whenever he does spend the rare five minutes with him.

Yeah, unfortunately I figured out what the courts are looking for almost six years ago... =(

Thing is, can't pay a lawyer, neither one of us can. I guess I should be happy in that fact. That he can't try to one up me in that way. When I kicked him out last July he painted me black to his family and he was the victim. I have NO IDEA what he has told the church he goes to, but they are SYMPATHIZING with him about the whole thing! They believe I'm the problem and wonder if they could help him any in court? They haven't seen him with his son, except for like twice, and I had him the whole time. He's good at talking himself up and saying how much he loves his son, (even since he was an infant he did this) BUT he never spent any time with him, still doesn't. The children services case worker even commented in one of her evaluations of his visit with my son that he talked almost exclusively about himself and had grandiose ideas of his abilities. Almost any time anyone has asked him a question about my son he either can't think of an answer or gives misinformation that I then have to correct because he wanted to APPEAR like he cared, which is rare.

Recently, he showed up once or twice to a therapy visit of my son's, (Occupational, Speech, Physical) and the therapist commented TWICE about how he "wasn't his usual self", "what's wrong with you buddy, this isn't like you?". My son has a totally different personality when his dad is around as opposed to when he's not.

Because of my past experience with all this in the first place, I hesitate to contact anyone for legal advice. GAL's opinion of what's best for him can differ immensely between what I KNOW is best for him as his mother. They may have legal experience, but they don't know him and he can't explain himself. Some of his actions can be interpreted differently if you don't know him, and all this keeps me up at night.  :'(

I'm starting to think I should just put up with whatever I have to so that I can make sure my son stays safely away from his dad until he has the ability to explain how he feels and what's going on himself. I can't bear to think of dragging him through anything like this after all he's been through already. You just have no idea the hell my boy has already endured in such a short time. He's only five years old, six next month.  :'(  I just don't know what to do.

Let me clarify the difference between legal custody and physical custody.  One does not necessarily dictate to the other.  Legal custody is for major decisions such as major medical decisions, school decisions (you must be Residential Parent), religious decisions, etc.  Physical custody gets into the details of the actual contact with the children.

Yes, courts generally prefer joint legal custody.  This is not to say you shouldn't try your best to seek sole legal custody.  What I meant was that even if you had some form of joint legal custody, then the physical parenting, parenting time and parenting schedule are largely a separate issue.  For example, you could have joint legal custody and still have him limited to supervised visitation.

And if neither of you can afford an expensive contested divorce case and he has already agreed to step into the background, then you may not face a lengthy, expensive struggle as many have experienced here.  A court will not stop him from gifting you sole custody and restricting himself to supervised contact but it may quiz him to be sure he's aware of what that means.  It sounds like you can work out a reasonable settlement.  Stand firm for what you know is best for you and your child.  However, it is important that you get the legalese right so the court won't nix any portions of your settlement.  So you need to run the terms past a family law attorney.  A lawyer will tell you if any clauses are invalid, worded incorrectly or expose you to parenting risks or hassles in the years to come.  Perhaps you can find a pro bono lawyer or one with sliding-scale fees at the local Bar Association or at avvo.com?

Hi purekalm,

My situation was not nearly as distressing as yours and I now have full legal and physical custody. Visitation was terminated. It's possible to get full custody.

Can you afford to consult with a lawyer? It can run from $100 to a few hundred dollars for one hour, depending on where you live. I think this will give you great peace of mind -- it's different than retaining a lawyer, which can cost you thousands. You go into the meeting with a long list of questions and come away with information gold. We can help you come up with questions to ask if you'd like.

Your ex has a history with the courts. That's a strong mark against him. You have documentation that he is not interested in being a dad, and you have documentation and people to vouch for you that your son does not have a good relationship with his dad. PLUS! And this is important, courts tend to go with status quo. So what you have in place now is likely how the courts will rule, especially if that's what your stbxh signs in his separation agreement.

One of the most important things I learned from my experience is this: don't negotiate with yourself. Especially without talking to a lawyer who will interpret the mountain of information out there about how your case stacks up against all others. Law is essentially an interpretive profession and they also understand technicalities of our cases that we can't possibly understand just from researching things online.

Seek out as many experts as possible and find someone who can help you achieve your goal. You have a good one. Learn what you can from the clerk of court, or from the website, or from a kind, caring lawyer willing to work with you pro bono (if you contact a DV shelter, they can give you a list of people to call).

I never thought in a million years I would get full custody -- I was told it was all but impossible in my state. It took me a long time and it was stressful, but I did it with the help of a team of angels who showed up along the way, including and especially people here.

Also, you can ask for full custody and then suggest supervised visitation. Courts like that kind of compromise -- it shows you're a concerned mama who wants her son to have a relationship, but your concerns are also substantial.

For my husband, he fought very much like someone with BPD. He was disorganized and impulsive, and seemed to do everything and anything to justify his role as the victim in all this. He could not for the life of him focus on what was best for S14, so every time the court gave him a chance to turn things around, he dug a deeper hole. I think deep down he did not have the ability to parent S14, and knew it, and worked hard to get himself fired from the most important job in his life.

Last -- how likely is it that your stbx will move to Florida?

ForeverDad,

Thank you. I know the difference because I've been looking up tons of info for a long time. At first I didn't though and your explanation would have been incredibly helpful. I will check with what sources I can to make sure about the legalese because it is confusing sometimes for sure.  :)


livednlearned,

Thank you also for replying. I am unfortunately what you would call poor, lol I have no extra money to speak of and struggle to pay the norm. But, I can try the free resources or maybe get enough money saved to have that question session with one. I would appreciate it because it would answer a ton of questions I worry about.

Please do, I would appreciate a list because I'm sure there are many things I would forget or not think about. I have overthought this so much I'm sure I've missed something that would be important.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Part of the agreement he's willing to sign and I've talked over with him is that he can't have contact with my son without me, alone or otherwise. He knows he has anger issues and he knows he's got marks against him because of our history. Apparently, he was told all his rights were already revoked when they arrested him, but they never took his rights during the case. I honestly don't mind if he gets to see him when he's not living with us because he treats him better since he doesn't see him and isn't aggravated. He may not be a great dad, but I think, unless there was a real and dangerous threat from him even with me there it would hurt my son to just all the sudden have no dad. He tries so hard to earn his attention and stuff and it really upsets me, because it should be given naturally.

I can sympathize because the first time he just wanted the option where he "didn't have to pay anything" and then said he wanted some type of contact with him... .I said it doesn't work like that. Now, he's saying he wants to still "see both of us". For me, it's already over. But for my son, it will take time.

Right now not sure. He was trying to escape last time and everything is completely different this time and he knows it. I still wanted to work things out before and now I've come to the conclusion that he just isn't going to get better because he won't even really admit he has a serious problem. I think it's about 50/50 currently, but could change at his whims of course.

Hi purekalm,

You're a strong, protective mama -- that can go a long way even when you don't have the financial means to lawyer up.

I'm wondering, too, if you would feel comfortable talking to a DV shelter? I'm not the classic DV victim (my ex, like yours, would throw things, punch walls, what I've heard called "abuse by environment", but I was surprised how many women like me seek out DV support. A controlling, angry, abuser does not have to make direct contact with his or her fist in order for abuse to be considered DV.

Depending on your county, there may be DV services that connect to pro bono legal aid. At the very least, you could get some important questions answered. Trying to make sense of how things work in the legal system is really hard! Even with the Internet. Also, the clerks of court can be really helpful -- they can't give legal advice, but they can explain (patiently) what the process is like, what forms need to be filled out, etc.

Meanwhile, document everything. Being in an abusive relationship takes a real toll and the stress makes it hard to remember things clearly. Document what happens each day. I used Google calendar and would enter things that happened, mostly to help me remember, but also in case I needed to remember dates. Then, when it came time to needing a document of everything that happened, I changed Google calendar to the agenda view and out came this beautiful, chronologically ordered stream of dates and events.

What are some of the questions you have that you'd like a lawyer to answer? Maybe we can start there and build on that.

A lot depends on your state.  While there is a lot of consistency between states, there are still differences that may help or hinder your needs.  For example, he wanted to go to Florida.  Well, a member wrote here one that there's no 'custody' word in Florida, it's all some form of 'time-sharing'.  So you probably wouldn't want to divorce in their courts.

Our experience with getting custody of our gd5 was based upon behaviors, not a diagnosis. We kept meticulous records of every interaction, screenshots of FB status posts and text messages. Our daughter said she wanted to give us custody, but then denied ever saying that on the stand. She lied about many things in court, but we had enough evidence that we were awarded custody. As others have said, it is ALL about the child. Evidence of neglect, poor interactions, cruel and abusive words, not seeing her for weeks at a time, FB posts about all the fun things she was doing with the new bf, while never mentioning her child. All these things demonstrated a pattern that the judge couldn't ignore. Even though we didn't ask her to, she ordered that visitation be supervised, as well as parenting classes and home studies for both parents.

It is important to remember that the courts want to keep both parents in the child's life, so it must be shown that there are "extreme circumstances" making it unsafe for the child. FB posts are admissible in court, which is amazing because people post the dumbest, most revealing stuff on there! We had pictures of drug use, etc from FB.

BPD's change their minds at the drop of a dime, so be prepared for the worst and pray for the best.

Really good advice.

I found that my ex's behavior added up to "extreme circumstances," though in a way that might not seem like it to people outside our court.

Many of us here think our cases are normal -- they aren't. Our circumstances are often extreme. The challenge is to document things so that you can eliminate "he said, she said," and make a good case.

Bill Eddy (who wrote Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse) says that 80 percent of all cases are settled out of court, only 20 go to court. Of those, he suspects that one or both parents in those cases has a PD.

When you walk into a court that deals with disordered or immature, reckless (not to mention traumatic) behavior on a daily basis, and you are a breath of fresh air with your reasonable proposal and a solutions-minded approach, a lot can happen. It's good to keep that in mind when reading online because most information is directed toward the population not dealing with a disordered individual.

Thank you again everyone for your replies!

See, I didn't think that if I wrote something it could be held up in court because anybody just make up anything? Like, for the past two weeks he's come straight home and sat on xboxlive with his clan for anywhere from 5-8 hours, completely ignoring his son and when my son tries to get his attention he gets pissed off.

No, I didn't think about DV but I may look into it. I've been so stressed out lately I can't even think of any questions besides the obvious.

Yeah, my ex mentioned something about that just the other night. See, he wants to look the good parent, doesn't want to be one. He doesn't want to pay. He said that this state is stupid because in Florida there is no child support. I will not be moving to Florida, no way. My son has all the services he needs already in place here.

Yes, I learned the first time that "he said she said" doesn't go anywhere in court. So, I have a little experience, but this is different as I want to get away from him now, not go to him. I tried talking to him to see what was going through his mind, dangerous I know. lol He said he "still wants to see both of us". I don't want to be with him anymore, but he's always been like that. He doesn't want our son, only me, and I don't want him anymore I'm done.

Yes, see I can be rational and reasonable where he can't keep it together at all anymore and is flipping around everyone. He isn't too active on FB now because he's got his clan. That's just about literally where he spends the majority of his time when he isn't working. He even said "church can go to hell" the other night because I think he's having too hard a time keeping up appearances. They wanted to make him a trustee. Obviously, these people need help if they are being fooled by him. But, maybe it just seems so obvious to me because I know the devil behind the smile... .

He flips his switch at the drop of a hat too, mainly if he feels he's being looked at in a negative light. So, I've been trying to dance around issues the best I can to make sure my son gets protected. I mean, he has NO natural instinct as a parent, at all. It would be obvious for them to see if he got to interact around someone taking notes on the subject. As soon as my son does an undesired behavior he has a extremely difficult time restraining his negative feelings about it.

We currently share the computer so I always have to delete history and stuff, I would have to write down the instances at first and keep them where he wouldn't think to look. Should I just start from most recent? Like two weeks? And, what exactly is considered evidence for court if he just ignores him? Neglect? I'm trying to figure out what is considered abnormal because that's been the norm for so long now I'm starting to forget.

Thank you all again so much for your help! This place is invaluable to a lot of people, definitely has been for me. (I mean the whole website.)  :)

Keep being careful and cautious, that's wise! I do think pwBPD are very tuned to slight changes in our behavior, moods, etc., and can sense small shifts in how we feel. It's good to be extra careful around times when you're making plans they won't like... .

My documentation, over the course of the case included:

voicemails

voice recorded conversations (this is legal in my state)

text messages

emails (thousands upon thousands... .)

my ex's own testimony (deposition)

third-party professionals (especially the Parent Coordinator working with us)

I also kept a log of my ex's substance abuse and prescription pill use. Just having this seemed to be meaningful, although it was never used in court. Instead, my L used it to wave at the opposing L. "LnL has six months recording every drop of alcohol and every pill he consumed."

Nothing on its own was significant, it was the nature of what was recorded (my judge in particular was deeply offended by the nasty language N/BPDx used to address me), including N/BPDx's own difficulties with the parent coordinator and then the judge himself.

If I could, I would place a copy of Splitting in your hands -- it's worth every penny, it really is. I know you're broke and may not have the money to download a copy (you can get an electronic version downloaded to an Amazon account for $10.49). If you can't afford it, try to read everything you can at Bill Eddy's website: www.highconflictinstitute.com to read as much as you can about how things work with BPD and court.

You may want to also comb through the lessons on this board, especially the one about dealing with legal conflict: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239547.msg1331847#msg1331847

This article is written by lawyers for lawyers, and is based on Bill Eddy's work -- it will help you think like a lawyer as you prepare for your own case:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270440.msg12566140#msg12566140 (I recommend reading the original article too, which you can access from the link at the top of the article).

Most courts don't consider behavior that is older than 6 months. Some have said that courts don't care about abuse between adults, but my judge did seem to take those behaviors into account. They weren't the most important items, but my lawyer worked them in to great effect (like name-calling in its various forms). In general, focus on the best interests of the child, so any incidents where you cannot leave your son alone, any interactions with third-party professionals (they can testify).

It sounds like your ex is guilty of more than neglect -- not going to the bathroom if it means leaving your son alone because of what your ex will do... .that's not neglect, that's abuse. It's extreme behavior to have to protect your child like that.

There does seem to be a stereotype here with BPD fathers that they want to have legal authority over the child, but not do any of the hands-on parenting. That stereotype is unfortunate for the good dads here, but for you, it makes your work a little easier. Court is used to seeing dads like this, and your ex will have a hard time staying emotionally regulated in court. In many ways, this is the best documentation, but it puts the responsibility on you to show up well-prepared, centered, reasonable, with a good compromise or solution that the court thinks is fair.

Last -- I know what you mean about the stress making it hard to focus on bigger questions. I imagine everyone here can identify with that feeling. You're a single mama with a child who has special needs, struggling to make ends meet, meanwhile living with a man who is mentally ill. That is some serious stress, and that's not even taking into consideration the legal stuff.

We're here for you, and understand what this is like. Glad you are sharing what you're going through and seeking support   It really made a difference to me, and I hope it will for you too.

Thank you for being so specific.

That is a lot of good information to sort through, and I am currently doing that to learn what I can.

Yes, even though he may not be hurting him physically, I think verbally/emotionally/mentally is just as bad. It hurts to know he just can't tell me... .

I know I don't have the most stress for sure, but I can agree that the majority of people here are dealing with enough crazy to cause stress.

I worry about how much can actually be documented and or proved by a third party. I don't even remember the exact day he went last to his therapy. I hadn't written anything down because I didn't think that it mattered at the time. I don't remember the exact day when the last incident happened for me to not be able to leave him alone with him at all.

And don't worry livednlearned, I've been poor my whole life. We get resourceful, no matter how much that sucks to admit... .I checked my local library and they have an audio copy that I can connect to online so I don't have to worry about him seeing that I checked it out.    :) It also seemed like they had that walking on eggshells book I keep hearing everyone mentioning.

That's the other thing, he doesn't do drugs, only takes ibuprofen and isn't an alcoholic  and although he's been talking about wanting to drink, I couldn't say if he has. A couple years ago he admitted to a previous pastor in a therapy session that he was in his right mind when he flipped out and never blacked out or lost consciousness. Even though it's so long ago, I wish I would have had that recorded.

I will keep reading/listening and learning as much as I can. I really do appreciate your help.  :)

Bill Eddy has an assortment of books and other materials at his site HighConflictInstitute.com, Amazon too.  He's a social worker, lawyer, mediator, lecturer and author, invaluable to the community.  He has had regular seminars for fellow professionals in the mental health, social services, lawyers and court officials.

Randi Kreger co-wrote Stop Walking on Eggshells.  It was her main book for many years and was updated in 2010, she also wrote The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder and The ABC's of BPD, all found at BPDCentral.com and elsewhere.

As for your electronic activities, are you sure he hasn't and isn't tracking your computer use?  And frankly, if things are heading into a legal struggle, it would probably be smart to consider any electronic device that he has either physical or electronic access to as potentially compromised.  If you have even the least suspicions, then try to use a library computer or a trusted friend or family member's computer for sensitive research and communication.  Here's a thread on that topic:

FREQUENTLY ASKED TECHNICAL QUESTIONS (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=58954.0)

From there look for the link to Information: Could I be found out? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=59369.0)

ForeverDad,

Yes, I'm 100% sure. He isn't tech savvy at all. I've made all his accounts online, buy his stuff online, get access to whatever he needs, applications, he gets frustrated in 2 seconds when something doesn't work right. (Which is usually his fault.) I always delete my history after I use the computer or even my own phone just in case, but I'm not really worried on that front. I use the computer at night after my son is in bed and he's usually sleeping or playing a game. I keep multiple tabs up if he happens to walk by and "wonder" what I'm doing. Thank you for the advice though, because otherwise it would have been extremely helpful and may still be to anyone who has got this far on this thread.  :)