BPDFamily.com

ME: Married 15yrs, kids 12/9/6, uBPDw, known about BPD for 3yrs.

So my BPDw and I talked a few days ago about "what we wanted" in the marriage. My list had "I want to do things with you, enjoy life with you, date you!"

She's trying to get her head around what that means. She's basically said that she dosn't want to go OUT with me to do anything - because that's all "Manufactured". Instead, we should be able to stay home, have a nice dinner together (maybe on the deck), watch a movie... .And that i should value those times. I said I certainly did value those times, but those things were "normal" - we did those every night.

I want to experience FUN - and I told her I want to experience fun WITH HER. When we first started dating (15yrs ago) we went out a lot more. Even after kids (10yrs ago) we still went on date nights every few weeks. But even then I noticed she wasn't interested in anything except going out to dinner. I know she's not super active, so walking, bike riding, anything fitness ish is out for her. But no matter what else I tried, she wasn't interested in anything.

    - dinner at a pub that had an indoor golf driving range. No, that made her self-conscious

    - dinner at a hotel that I arranged we could use the spa/pool either before/after dinner. No. 

    - dinner with a window seat, timed so we could watch a zombie parade go by (that may have been OK!)

    - dinner at a winery, double dated with her best friend and husband, with live jazz music? I think she was OK with that, but she said no the second time

    - a long drive ending in a chocolate tasting at a winery - was OK

    - comedy show? Sure - so long as it doesn't mention anything to do with marriage, sex, drugs - which leaves... .?

    - going to hear a speaker talk about current trents in her industry? no

    - mini golf? no

    - arcade games? no

    - learn to dance at home? no

And the last 3 years, she hasn't been interested in going out AT ALL. Even the things that I've tried to organise AT HOME - she's still not interested. Her best friend and family were at our home, and an in-propmtu basket ball game started just with her best friend, me and our son. Wife sat on the side - unwilling to join.

She always has reasons for not being able to do anything, which revolved around kids, timings, logistics, heat... .For a long time I believed what she was saying and tried to make the next date fit her criteria. But I always failed. Now that I know about BPD, I realise that she just doesn't want to do anything. And that fits with her mindset - she's a workaholic martyr - unable to make time to enjoy "fun" because she's SOO busy and fun is selfish (even though she spends about 90mins each day on candy crush - but that's her "calming her mind".

When we look back on our lives in 10yrs, we're not going to remember that lovely dinner we cooked at home - we're going to remember the time we we playing mini-golf in the rain! Even my 12yr old still talks about the time a few years back when dad tried the super-hot chilli at the fair. THAT is a memory! THAT is being "out there" living life. And although *I* would like to be "out there" rock climbing, mountain biking, mud running - I understand that those aren't her thing. But what *IS* her thing? I've been searching for years trying to find it - and I can't.

She is boring.

So where to from here? I don't want to stop having fun. I don't want to lead her life. So I'm going to start planning these things with the kids. We'll go to mini -golf. We'll go to fairs. We'll start having fun. If she wants to come - she can. If not, she can stay home. But I need to prepare myself - she will NOT want to come ever, but she'll never say that - she'll say some 'other' excuse that isn't about her ("the kids have had too big a week already and need down time" is a common one). So I either lose out, or if I do take them all, wife's mood sets off the kids so I am then a prick for taking them when she's just told me that the kids are too tired.


I think I'm in the process of "deciding staying/leaving". I talked with my psych the other day - she reflected to me that it sounded like I'd already made my decision. The last hope of "one day things will get better" is now obviously a lie. I was at the park with my kids last week (without mum), and was watching a couple kick a footy together. There was also another couple exercising (she was riding, he was running beside her), and a third couple running around with their kids playing. Am i wrong to be envious? Am I wrong to want a relationship that has "active fun"? Wife is asking me to explain why I can't value "dinner at home". How do you explain it?

I'm sorry that you've had to miss out on so much living and so many unmade memories. I think it's totally normal to do things outside of the house with other people.

My uBPDh has started doing the same. We recently spent a week in Chicago where I had planned out all kinds of little fun things for us to do. We went to the first one and had to wait in line so he threw a fit. We left and argued until I was done. We spent the rest of our trip at the hotel watching TV.

Same thing happened this last weekend. We went to KC for our anniversary. I made plans that he was ok with but then at breakfast there were issues with the breakfast bar. I tried to give him a different perspective on the situation and I became the enemy. We fought and drove home. He sulked for 2 hours then raged for the last hour home.

I don't want to go on anymore trips with him despite my love for travel. He makes it a miserable time and I'm tired of being miserable. I just want to be able to enjoy myself without wondering what will ruin the moment.

Sounds like you did explain it. What's holding you back?

I have not posted in a long time but felt the need to after reading this. I am in the same situation with my wife of 18 years. The kids and I invite her to everything but she always has an excuse not to go. The last time she actually came with us was to the movies.  That was probably a mistake because we have our own agenda and way we do things. She didn't know and ended up chastising the kids because of the popcorn. I had to spend the next hour after the movie explaining to my boys that mom didn't understand our routine and that is ok to change things up sometimes.  We will keep inviting her but hope she declines the invitation.  She kind of sucked the fun out of the whole thing. 

I have been turned down so many times for a date night that I stopped asking.  I tried to explain how humiliating it is to get shot down asking for a date by my own wife but it doesn't make a dent.  Instead she throws up how we went shopping for a new microwave but I don't consider that as quality time together. 

I'm in the same boat as you.  I'm wavering back and forth between this and the leaving board. I have given up so much of my self already that I don't have much left.  I am begging for her to be my wife and not my roommate. Not sure how much longer she will be either.

As per BPDw's request for emails rather than conversations, I emailed her a letter trying to explain my desire to enjoy life.

I thought i did a good job. Talked about all the positives her and I currently have. How I DO value quiet nights with her, how having 'fun' is a different bucket to quiet nights. Talked about the good memories I have of us having fun together.

But in the letter I wrote "... .having fun times creates memories". Of course she twisted this to be "so if we're not having fun times then we aren't creating memories" and queue the arguement.

She talked for ages about how:

    - we go away for holidays 2wks each year, and wasn't that enough fun?

    - she can't trust anyone to baby sit the kids

    - there are too many responsibilities in her life to have time to go out and have fun

    - I should be able to go and have fun without her (and why aren't I)?

    - how could I possibly say that we've NEVER had any fun times together

I listened - realising that this conversation was not about me at all. Bit my tongue most of the time. Empathised with her feelings (eg "I can hear you feel frustrated with all the things you need to balance", "I also love going on holidays with you". And when she'd run out of things to say - we were no better off. I certainly didn't feel heard!

I've read before that the BPD will "not see" things - even those written down - that disagree with her emotion. It's incredible. My letter was so accepting ("this is a desire of mine for me - i understand that you may want different things. It's OK for us to want different things" but she doesn't see that. She just picks up one sentance, twists it, and bases an entire arguement around that.

As I fight it less and less, I am able to sit with it more and more. We don't go backwards, but we certainyl aren't going forwards.

My wife used some of these same arguments for years and still does to an extent. Our vacations were almost exclusively going to visit our family in another state.

She would say that I need to do things for myself more. She even admitted in our first MC that I don't do anything for myself, it's always for her and our kids.  She doesn't seem to understand that every time I tried to do things I enjoyed, she would guilt trip me for it.  I work out of town a lot so when I'm home, I try to spend it with her and the kids.  When I would try to do something for me, she would bring up that it's always what I want. How she stays home with the kids for my career. How she never gets any time off, so when I am home and off, that's her time to take a break.

If you hear it enough, you start to believe it.  You begin to think you are being selfish. It's very difficult. 

HMCbart said: If you hear it enough, you start to believe it.  You begin to think you are being selfish. It's very difficult.

Agreed. After 10years of hearing it, I doubt my own intentions now.

     BPDw: A marriage is about teamwork. Helping me finish my work assignment that's due tomorrow is a loving supportive thing a husband would do.

        ME: I agree - but how often is loving? Spending one night to help is loving. But when you ask for my help EVERY NIGHT - isn't that too much... .?

     BPDw: I guess we both have different levels of committment. (Of course if you asked ME to help YOU each night that'd be too demanding of you... .   )

After begging for a few scraps of love and affection and maybe just a few minutes of sex, I get nada, nothing, zilch, zero... .I'm being selfish, it's all about me.

Tonight she needs me to help her with something and I'm not in the mood to be there for her... .childish I know. First she locked herself in the bathroom and said I'm being mean. Then after the kids are in bed, she walks out the door gets in her car and leaves.

Oh, and my family is visiting and staying with us also... .I was worried about her raging in front of my grandmother but I guess she was nice enough to leave instead.

If I didn't have to get up early with the kids I would be drinking right now.

I got in this rut, my wife used to do those things (that was the attraction), she still talks about doing them, but never does and always backs out. I was wasting my life experience by association.

Part of my turn around was I bought a kayak and now go out fishing a coupe of times a week catching up and interacting with mu fishing forum buddies. When i come home i talk about it with my wife who seems to like to live life through others, as though she is watching it on TV. Then we get to share the feed i caught.

My default in life is to do something, she can either join in or not. I no longer pressure or criticize her about participation and everything is a lot better.

You mention she likes TV, this is most likely because she likes to live life out through others, it is safer, she can't fail. TV evokes emotions without putting them to the test.

Wow I read that and chuckled. I get that type of black/white line multiple times a day. It is so unrealistic you cant help but give a sarcastic chuckle in disbelief when you hear something like that. (yes that is invalidation, I am working on it)