BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone.

I'm feeling really stuck on some thoughts and I'd really appreciate it if anyone could help me reframe things so I can stop ruminating?

I've said before that my uBPDex has been seeing a therapist for more than a year now and in fact that has made things much much worse for she and I, although I do have to say that the T has helped her a lot with some of her childhood stuff.

The main reason things got worse is because, as I've also mentioned, my ex constantly (several times a day sometimes) accuses me of affairs, lying, deceit or something else that isn't true. And she's been going to the T and telling her of my crimes and of course the T has said, "Mel's talking with her ex ex behind your back? Of course that's terrible. Mel's lying to you about where she was again? No wonder you want out... ." But none of the things is true!

The two things that I'm struggling with:

My ex started, in T speak, saying, "it's my truth!" But it isn't THE ACTUAL TRUTH! How can I get my head round being ok with the fact that her truth says I slept with the lollipop man (and I'm a lesbian!) and therefore it's valid? It isn't!

Also, her reason for the final discard is that she finally has the good self esteem to let me go and realise that she's worth more than staying with someone who treats her as appallingly as I do with all my lies and cheating... .But I've never lied or cheated! That is not only my truth, it is the actual factual truth! I've bent over backwards to do exactly what she wanted me to do and be how she needed me to be, and to understand and understand and let things go... And to hear that she's telling people that she's finally got enough self esteem to leave evil lying me and wait for someone who will treat her better is absolutely doing my head in.

Any thoughts, suggestions appreciated, thank you!

Feel better about yourself. Her actions should tell you she isn't doing better. No amount of love or good deeds will change that, unless she starts getting better and honest about herself. Feel good about the good things you have done for her and the love you feel, don't expect anything back. You know what happened and if people choose to believe lies, so be it. They are masters at the game they play, but they can't play with someone who left their game. Feel good about yourself.  :)on't forget about her, but be good to and for yourself first. Hang in

Thank you. I know that what you say makes sense.

I find it difficult to know that she believes the lies she tells and she believes she is getting better, and that's what's caused a lot of the problems. In the past she would disregulate and then afterwards she'd talk about it and acknowledge her part in things and vow to work on her stuff, and really try. This is what got her into therapy, this desire to conquer her demons. Unfortunately she now believes she is better, her demons are conquered and she doesn't have to try because it's all me!

But like you say, I know it isn't, so I guess that has to be enough... .

hey mel1968  

i can understand how frustrating this is. its like, if youve gotta be the bad guy, you at least want it to be based on something you did  . i once heard "i get that, but i FEEL this way."

this took me a long time to grasp: a persons truth is their truth and there is usually nothing i can do to change it, nor should i necessarily try. thats not t speak; we all have our own version of the truth. her therapist is likely validating that. whether she is deliberately piling on may not be an accurate picture.

none of that is to say her truth is fact based or that your frustration isnt valid, far from it. its not an argument about whether the sky is blue or green (although in some ways it is, as ill explain), but about your character. it hurts, and as you say, isnt true, so it feels unfair. you may want to defend your character, and find that it seems to only reinforce her attitude and narrative.

so how do you accept her truth as her truth and detach from the pain of it? not easily, thats for sure. and with practice. you start with accepting that this person is mentally ill. truth is often distorted and not fact, but feelings based. BPD is a persecution complex. believing that you are "evil lying you" is not personal, though it feels very personal; it is survival. for her, it is essentially necessary. this dynamic long predates you, it goes back to very early childhood. youre caught in the middle of it, and it sucks, i know. one of the most valuable lessons i learned, and one of the most useful things to me at the time, was the concept of "radical acceptance". we have an article about it hear and id encourage you to read it: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

i should also mention you refer to this person as your ex. when a relationship has ended, its pointless to get into blame and who is at fault for what. id encourage you to refrain from getting involved in such discussions even if the tendency to defend yourself is overwhelming. it will not change her truth, it will likely reinforce it.

hope this helps. hang in there mel1968, i know its frustrating, this is a safe place to vent :)

Thanks very much once removed.

I've been aware of radical acceptance, but that transcript/thread really clarified things for me.

You said

BPD is a persecution complex. believing that you are "evil lying you" is not personal, though it feels very personal; it is survival. for her, it is essentially necessary.

Please can you explain WHY it's essentially necessary? I do accept that she has a mental illness, and knowing her past I understand exactly where that has come from. But Im struggling to understand why she has to see me as evil when  I'm not. How is that necessary for her survival?


i should also mention you refer to this person as your ex. when a relationship has ended, its pointless to get into blame and who is at fault for what. id encourage you to refrain from getting involved in such discussions even if the tendency to defend yourself is overwhelming. it will not change her truth, it will likely reinforce it.

I guess the absolute honest truth is that while my head knows she's my ex and every fibre of my rational self knows that she is no good for me and I need to stay away, my heart's nowhere near that yet and any kind of communication is better than none at all, it still means there's a connection, even if it is a truly terrible one. But you are completely right, thank you for the reminder. I think in all these things I need to be working far more with my head and reality and less with my heart and feelings...

Thank you for the continued support!

Mel

The true definition of non BPD people should be that we have a disconnect from our heart to our brains at times... What you are feeling, this doesn't make it easier, is normal. I would write things down and when I would have these disconnects, I could read what I wrote. It never helped. It's time+patience+ self discovery. That's the equation for getting through this. It hurts. It hurts like hell at times but you just can't apply rational thinking  to a person that is not able to be rational. Come here and vent and let people guide you with wisdom gained through the same experience. Lots of tears and tissues went into some of the advice here.

For pwBPD, Feelings = Facts. 'I feel hurt, so therefore SOMEONE MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING TO HURT ME'. The 'something' could be as simple as you smiled at a waitress in a restaurant.

Also, given their tendency to see most things as black or white, they often take things very literally. Perhaps while in therapy, her Therapist validated her feelings. That is, told her it is okay to feel how she does or to have the feelings that she does. My ex would say 'you can't tell me how I should feel', which was true.

If you said you are cold for example, then who am I to say you are not cold, right?

Trouble comes when you literally take the 'my feelings are valid and therefore must be real', and then look to assign blame for them to someone or something, and interpret those feelings as facts. 'I feel cheated on' becomes 'because I feel like this, I therefore must have been cheated on'. Feelings become facts for them even though there may not be any logical or reasonable nor factual basis for that feeling. So whilst she is saying it is her 'truth', I suspect she is talking about her feelings and simply validating them. Of course feeling like she has been cheated on does not equate to actually having been cheated on, but I suspect that's where she is coming from.

Also the Therapist validating her stories of being 'lied to and cheated on' is something the Therapist will do of course, because she does not know what is the truth or not, but is there to build trust in the relationship with your ex. The Therapist is likely to aware that there potentially will be lying, but it is not her role to play judge, merely to validate her feelings and build a trusting relationship so they can continue to work together.

It makes no sense to us because feelings are not facts for us, but for a pwBPD, that's what happens for them.

It hurts when they blame us and lie about what happened, especially when we are good people who would never do the things they accuse us of. I have just come out of my second BPD r/s (clearly didn't learn the first time!) and my last ex exhibited pathological lying. In the end I did not know what was false and what was the truth, and have no doubt she is undertaking a smear campaign (BPD's are known for this also). At first I was horrified by the thought, but gradually I told myself I just have to let it go. In the end people will make their own minds up as the common denominator through all their drama is them.

Thanks guys.

Todd, I'm going through tissues aplenty this weekend... .I'm going to try and remember your equation though, it does make sense - and I'm certainly discovering stuff about myself, although not necc all stuff I like...

Parisien, I hadn't thought for a while about her tendency to take things literally, and the black and white thinking. I'm going to apply this carefully to what she's been saying to try and make sense of it, although I am also  aware that in some ways that's a bit of a pointless exercise, it is as it is, whether I understand or not, the key is to accept it and move forward with me... .

As for the smear campaign, yes, i hate that. It's having a terrible impact on my work and daily life. We live in a small community and I have the most fixed smile in the UK at the moment, having to deal with people in work who I know are thinking all kinds of things about me, and feeling like people I say hello to in the street know what a cheating liar I am too, YEUGH!

Its tough when we see ourselves and that part we have that caused us to cling to our exwpbd. I always knew I had some self esteem issues and insecurities. I always thought I would just get over it some day. Well that day is now and its because of this. I never want to put myself into a position so compromising of who I am at my core. I now put myself first where I used to put everyone else first. I listen to my heart but I follow my gut. It sucks when you get to the place where you can't blame them for everything that happened. Its incredibly eye opening and I felt like I betrayed myself at times with my ex. You will get through this and it will shape the rest of your life. In a good way.

Don't know if this will help or that I have any right to say anything considering I have just been sh*t on again from a huge height, I believe the general term is recycled briefly. Anyway. I read this somewhere.

" Never allow anyone to become your priority, whilst letting yourself become their option"

I say it to myself a lot because it reminds me that it is exactly what I did and that sure didn't turn out well. xx

Todd, you sound like you're in a really positive place, good for you, well done! Sounds like you've worked hard to get there, thank you for sharing/inspiring... .

Sadly, I'm sorry to hear that you don't sound in such a good place, thanks for taking the time to reply. I have absolutely been her option while she was my priority, although to hear her tell it, all she's ever done is prioritise me, love me, hope that I'd provide her with a secure base and be let down by my constant rejection and going off with others... .Sigh!

If you want to share your recycling story, I'll be glad to listen. 

Ah, Sadly, I see you've posted elsewhere, sorry. 

Hey Mel, no problem. It is a good saying isn't it. I guess my co dependency issues didn't help but you do tend to forget about yourself in the need to give  them love and care. I was alone for many years before I met my ex, by choice and for historical reasons. I was happy enough but do recognise I had issues. Since he exploded into my life I never ever cried apart from cruelty to children, old people animals etc, nothing personal. I was like a cactus, water on the inside and my thorns on the outside protecting me. I never let my guard down, not for a moment, and then he came along and exploded my emotions, intense beautiful amazing love soon followed by the horror it all finally became. I have cried more in the past few months than in my entire life and have never been hurt so badly. Please no-one tell me this crying is cathartic cos it bloody well isn't. I read what you said:

I guess the absolute honest truth is that while my head knows she's my ex and every fibre of my rational self knows that she is no good for me and I need to stay away, my heart's nowhere near that yet and any kind of communication is better than none at all, it still means there's a connection, even if it is a truly terrible one.

My heart isn't there either and I know exactly what you are saying. Even that terrible connection is better than none but thinking and feeling like that led me exactly backwards to where I am today. Ridiculous, but even after this awful weekend and the pure nastiness there is a little part of me that thinks, "please come knock at my door, hold me in your arms, tell me you love me and you are sorry". All the actions of a normal person and not one that is ever going to happen and for my own sake shouldn't happen. So why crave it? I don't know. I like to think I wouldn't open the door but couldn't swear to it. I guess that is why I feel no respect for myself right now. I can only say to you what others say to me. Be strong, ain't easy is it  :'(.   xx

it would be more accurate for me to say "psychologically necessary" for "psychological survival", because it of course is not ever truly necessary to make someone else out to be evil. its a coping mechanism. in her case, a deeply ingrained one.

i think this thread very well explains what im trying to say. scroll down a bit and you will see an expansive breakdown of these relationships from a senior member, from a psychological perspective. it also touches on radical acceptance: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.0



that is very honest of you mel1968, and i can understand where youre coming from. we detach in our own unique way, in our own unique time. i discovered my ex invading my email while she was with her new partner. i waited a long time to change my password; if im honest, a primary reason is because it was the only way i knew that she was thinking of me, on some level, even if it meant nothing positive for me and was a total invasion of my privacy and disrespectful to me. i did not mean to suggest you must cut this person off, only that there may be constructive ways to communicate if you choose to communicate. have you checked out the communication strategies like SET (support empathy truth)?

Thanks for the link, once removed. I have read the thread before, but got a lot more out of it a second time, although there are still many bits I still don't quite get, I think I'll read it again in a week, I hope I'll be in a different place then, and will take on even more of it.  I identify very strongly with the lonely child.

Unfortunately I'm also a lonely adult, and  mainly ensure that I stay on the edge of things, not getting involved, and then feeling isolated and alone. One of the things that attracted and repulsed me in equal measure about ex was her involvement in every group going. It was good for me in that she encouraged me to join in with things, but if course, it's so much more difficult now with the smear campaign, and the fact that they're all her friends and groups and I find myself even more isolated than before. Before I was isolated but not really bothered, now I'm isolated, but have had a taste of being with others, but feel like most of my avenues for joining with others have now been cut off by her involvement and what she's said. Like I say, we live in a small community. Anyway, that was just an aside, not sure there's anything to be done about it.

You asked about SET and communication but actually I know that I need to not be in contact with her, her views of me are so extreme and so horrible just now that I need not to engage, I need to protect myself and I don't believe that any techniques would be enough to do that at the moment, even if I could do them successfully, and let's face it, I've read all the lessons on the Staying board and tried, and clearly failed utterly miserably!

Thanks for the ongoing support everyone, I really do appreciate it

Mel

youve done a lot of good reading mel1968. it will serve you extremely well, but this all, understandably, takes its time to process.

im sorry you feel lonely  . i can imagine none of this situation helps. it probably contributed to the bond that she was very involved and encouraged your participation; introverts and extroverts often attract, for example. i was attracted to my ex for that reason, although thats not really how things played out (her being involved in much) but i think its natural that youd feel more isolated than before. i can relate to a lot of this; ive had bouts of social anxiety, isolation, etc, and there are many things that can be done about it. ive never been great at coming up with many let alone following through, but a popular suggestion is sites like meetup. there are such numerous ways of meeting people, that even a picky person like me can find a couple that im comfortable with. have you ever seen anyone (therapist or a counselor) about it? that would be what id recommend. loneliness is just so debilitating that one doesnt easily just decide and change lifestyles. for what its worth, you have us here, and many members can relate to all of this too, and share with you what has worked for them.

protecting yourself is always an idea i can get behind, and though you have decided disengaging is best, its obviously not easily done. has she been contacting you? there are still communication techniques for detaching, although they are more "detachment techniques". they primarily entail being boring. being detached. being "busy", distracted. if she is contacting you making allegations, something along the lines of "im sorry you feel that way". there is also of course not responding, or cutting off; this is your path and unique situation, but there are ways that will aid you in whatever approach you take.