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I'm STILL not good at validating. I can do it when I'm relaxed, and I see more and more that I respond to her feelings, rather than her words.

I was really impressed the other night, she asked me to email her my thoughts about something to do with MY feelings. Then she discussed the email with me, but after 10secs I realised the conversation was all about HER, and HER reaction to what I wrote - she didn't want to explore how *I* felt at all - but I was able to hear here, and validate her, and it felt good.

But yesterday morning... .On thursdays I normally leave for work late, and take the kids to school on my way. (Every other day i leave early and the wife takes the kids). Wife woke up and decided she was taking the day off. So I thought I'd leave earlier for work, and let her take the kids (the school is 1min drive away). But I neglected to negotiate this with her. So I hopped up and said "I'm going to go to work early". Well... .She was then triggered. How DARE I assume that she coudl take the kids. How DARE I not negotiate this with her!  I apologised straight away, said I was sorry that I didn't ask her about it - that I had just assumed. I said that if it was an issue I was quite willing to stay home and take them later as normal.  But that was a LOGICAL apology and solution. Probably quite appropriate for anyone else, but not a BPD.

I didn't validate at all about her feeling whatever. So down the arguement path she went. I'm selfish. I don't communicate. I don't care for her. She's sick (which is why she's taking the day off apparently - even though she'd just told me she was going to mow the lawns that day)... .yada yada yada.

And once she starts accusing me of all those things, I get annoyed. I'm still able to stay silent, but I don't validate. I don't see things from her point of view at all. I just feel pissed that everything coming out her mouth is one-sided, vindictive and wrong. Eventually though, she wants me to talk. And I'm polite, but certainly NOT validating, which means she gets that annoyed, unresolved, unheard feeling.

I am a very logical person, and I often can't see it from her side. At a VERY LONG stretch I can see that in this situation, she may have felt 'taken for granted', or possibly not respected. But I can't understand how that translates into her behaviour. I try to remind myself that her feelings are not her choice, and that they are SOO strong that this is the outcome, and I can remember the rare moment when *I* am so emotional that I can't really control what comes out my mouth, but this is ALL THE TIME for her - and I have a very hard time accepting it.

How I wish she could identify that the emotion she feels is true, but NOT caused by me. For her to react with "That statement makes me feel so X right now. (I know it's not your fault). Help me work through it" - how different that would be. But instead she rages, blames me, abuses me, pushes me away, then is annoyed that I don't support her and we aren't close.

Still trying... .hoping it'll get better.

Validation is very difficult. you may think you are validating, but you are not. the WAY you phrase your "validation statements" may come across as critical, condesending, unapproving, etc. And leave it to the BPD to recognize it, they surely will. I have not mastered it, but I try to follow SET when I validate.

S. Support statements

E. Empathy Statements

T. Truth Statements

you need to hit ALL of these statemetns in conversation, otherwise you will be "leaving one out" and the pwBPD will feel unvalidated. (of course you can do all of them to perfection and it still will not work depending on the state of the pwBPD).

I suggest doing research on this, search SET BPD Examples or something, and read the differences in the statements.

I struggle with validation for un diagnosed wife. The MOST awful is her raging about not supporting her and trying to find validation in that? It becomes me defending the fact that I was there but she pushed me away.  SHe had some issues over the course of 8 years, including child birth. Unfortunately, her recollection of the periods were that I didn't support her. Wasn't there.  NOw, as you might know, that isn't the truth.  But, usually she acts out in some manner, starts a fight and then begins devaluing and abusing. I'm usually standing outside some door she's locked behind trying to talk her down. I have really noticed this when she goes through hard times. she will push me away and lock herself in the room.  Is that normal? How do you validate further than reiterating my love and dedication to the relationship? I mean, this happens equally for any event, birthday ,trip, etc.

Where does that leave someone that is trying to help? for her, it's ammunition for the next round of "you've never been there for me!" Also,

I also struggle with validation for un diagnosed wife because the way she sees things in a way that invalidates and devalues me.  I try to validate the small piece of truth out of her feelings but then get accused of minimizing what I supposedly did and refusing to see myself for who I am, a petty, mean, annoying, heartless, (plenty of other adjectives) person.  Just the other day, I left work early to drive her to a doctor's appt.  I wrecked my car last week so it's drivable but I have to get in from the passenger side.  She has a brand new car that we've had about a month.  We walk outside to leave while our daughter (technically my step daughter) and grandchild also walked out to leave and go somewhere.  I thought we were driving her car but our daughter apparently was taking the new car.  We also have a truck so I asked what we were driving.  She seemed annoyed that I suggested taking the new car since our daughter was taking it; "why can't we take my car?"  I reminded her about the door and she said that doesn't affect her because I am the one who has to drive.  I said fine, it doesn't matter.  Once we leave, she expresses being upset that I was acting like that and felt that maybe it's not a good day to go to the appointment.  I apologized and told her I didn't mean anything; I don't care what car we take.  I just thought she wouldn't want to take my car.  She accused me of trying to be difficult and messing up her mood.  Eventually she let that go.

Next, we were sitting at a light.  The cars ahead of me moved up so I did as well.  she got upset, accusing me of being right up on the bumper of the car ahead.  She said they moved ahead because I was too close.  I was not too close; they moved up because other cars moved up ahead.  She told me that someone was going to get mad one day and kick my @##.  I blew if off.  I had printed out MapQuest directions for the hospital as we were going out of town.  Me, thinking she would have a problem with me constantly looking down at the directions and flipping pages while driving, asked if she would read off the directions.  She got mad and accused me of acting funny and being annoying because of the incident at the light.  I told her she was wrong.  She went on, asking me why do I have these ways blah blah blah; I'm always messing things up.  She said I always use mapquest directions and she's never complained but now I'm acting brand new.  I asked for the directions back and apologized.  Again, she felt we should cancel the appointment and started crying.  I convinced her to keep the appointment.

The directions had me going south on the tollway but it should have been north.  I turned around and pulled up the directions again on the phone and got on the right track.  I guess she felt I was going the wrong way on purpose or something because again, she's annoyed.  She didn't say much this time but there was tension.  We got to the hospital and I was trying to decide where we should park and go in at because I didn't want her walking far.  We found the main entrance and I let her off at the door.  Apparently, I was a couple steps off because she then accused me of acting mean for not stopping directly in front of the door.  I was right there.  She was going on about that for a minute and then she walked in the building while I parked the car.  These are the types of things that happen all the time which makes me dread driving her anywhere or doing anything.  She complains about everything and gets emotional thinking about why I'm such a "mean" person.  Later on that night, she asked me to rub her back.  While rubbing, she asked me to move up a little.  Apparently I moved to the wrong spot so she went on for about 20-30 minutes about how I'm always doing things wrong and not trying to get better.  It makes her look down on me and I should take notice and improve. 

Sometimes I just want to leave and never come back... .

Well, I can validate pretty easily, but it's never been super effective with BPDh. Like you though, I run into the issue of logic. I tend to look at things logically, and for BPDh, logic does not enter into it at all. Which is weird considering his job. I think he must be able to be somewhat logical there, but maybe not when it comes to relationships or normal negotiation that relationships take?

I have had a history of trying to get him to see logic, and I have to remind myself that doesn't work. The other day, BPDh's son was going to drop on to BPDh's work the xbox he's borrowed. BPDh argued with me that that would be fine. Now, BPDh drives a motorcycle to work, and would have no way to get the xbox home!  Logic told me that it made much more sense for BPDh's son to just drop in off here, at home. It DOES make more sense, but he argued and argued. He'll argue even when I think he knows he's wrong. I think it's about feeling controlled, or not coming up with the idea himself.

If things he decides or does didn't end up effecting me, or inconveniencing me, I wouldn't care. It's hard, but I guess it's a matter of deciding what is worth standing up for.

I don't see what you could have done a lot differently in the situation you faced that morning. She was going to feel the way she did regardless of what you said, and you did apologize. Her choice to stay upset is her choice. You are probably right that she felt taken advantage of, or wanted asked(rather than you assuming), but her choice to make a huge deal of it, is on her. I think you handled it okay.

dacoming: I'm not sure how much you tried validating. I'm starting to get good at ignoring what she says, and trying to see what emotion is under it all. For your partner, was she nervous about the doctors? Would a statement of "You seem tense this morning, are you worried about the appointment?" may have opened a line of communictioan that would help her feel heard. perhaps her nitpicking was just her feeling unsettled.

She was nervous about the appointment so I'm sure that played a part.  I actually understood that.  But to keep picking at me for nothing really upset me.  I tried to ignore it and move on but she does this all the time.  Every little thing I do that she doesn't like, she turns it into some type of malicious thing or me trying to annoy her because I can't help myself thing.  It's constantly walking on landmines where you cannot avoid the wrath.  The other night, she blew up at me because she was trying to say something and used the wrong word.  I wasn't sure what she was trying to say so she raged at me for being with her 19 years and not knowing her well enough to know she was trying to say something else.  Then the next morning, she makes a comment about me being mean the previous night (referring to that incident).  Why does everything have to be that way?

Hi ArleighBurke,

here are some validation excercises:

- have you tried watching a TV show and figuring out all the emotions. Seeing where people validate or invalidate and what the reaction on the other side is. Feeling within yourself whether you sense the happening on the screen as natural or artificial.

- have you tried to validate new members posting here or on the undecided board?

- have you tried validating your boss or a parent? It may be less scary than validating your partner but it is not completely stress free so you can work your way up   :)

Thanks. I'm not sure validating is the problem... .the problem is me getting annoyed by the abuse and losing my cool.

I also find it very hard to validate when he is completely wrong or misunderstood what I have said. Or has the least inkling I am trying to be passive aggressive and I'm thinking " what the heck?" It usually goes now hill from there and everything becomes annoying to him that I do and I finally blow my cool. I don't deserve this and I'm tired of trying to be understanding and say ' it's the disease, not the person!" I know I need to work on myself to do SET to survive.

I also have flashbacks of him raging at his mother and her cowtowing and saying " yes , you're right, I'm so sorry, you're right, what's wrong with me, I'm sorry". That's just not me and will NEVER be me! I told him when I first saw this and said ' do not ever talk to me like that! And of course he promised never, ever to do that. Oh well!

Validation is certainly not a skill I was born with... .But I've been able to get a little better. 

My uBPDw has adjusted her tactics slightly because of my validation and trying to not let her bait me.

Last Sunday she was getting agitated getting dressed for church (repetitions deleted  :))

her - I just don't think you find me attractive.

me - I'm not going to argue with you about what I think

her - I'm sad because I feel you don't find me attractive.

me - I understand you're sad, I'd be sad too if I thought you didn't find me attractive.  But you look great (easy... .because she does)

her - Clothes just don't fit me like other women... .how can I compete with them?

me - I chose you, you're not competing with anyone in my mind and I'm not going to argue with you like you are.

her - But why aren't you concerned I feel this way?

This part is relatively new... .we used to end these types of discussions with her stating she doesn't feel "resolved" because I didn't validate her feelings, my stating I understand and validated her feeling (sad) but am not going to validate her judgements (that I don't find her attractive).

I haven't figured out how to avoid this rabbit hole.  She flips between referencing her feelings and judgements, often with pretty vague language.   It's exhausting to constantly ask her what she's referring to, and squashing the detours where she wants to prove to me I don't think she's hot... .