BPDFamily.com

I am still struggling to believe all this. I was with him just about everyday. for 18 months. To find out he was in a full blown 6 month relationship kills me. He would come over after work around 4pm and stay till 7pm and say he had to get to bed by 9 because he had an internship last summer and he needed his sleep. I trusted him. When he was with me he was very affectionate and loving but we would fight almost everyday too because of the way he would interrupt things I said. I should be Thanking GOD which I am that I found out. But I feel like my whole relationship was a scam and he used me and had no regard for me as a person and no respect. I found a website called Psycho Profile and I searched his first name and his mother's last name. That is how he introduced himself to his last girlfriend he dated behind my back. and I found him! It was him to a TEE! It was in 2012 when he was still an active Priest. He said he left the priesthood because he wanted to have kids and get married. I think maybe now they asked him to leave. How could he live like this for so many years without a conscious or moral compass. Do you think he did it to hurt me and that he didn't care anything about me? I treated him to so many nice hotels and trips when he had no money after leaving the priesthood. I got him two jobs and forgave a $1500 loan. I am such a fool. And now I'm still in such pain and he is trying to get back this other girl. I think she is too smart to go back. I never want to see him again . But I feel he owed me some type of answer to why he cheated so much and often on me. Why didn't he just leave me. Do they have sex addictions? He never wanted to receive oral sex. ( sorry I know TMI) but maybe that means he was molested or something. Can they not just stay faithful to one person? I feel so let down and ashamed . I really did all I could to make it work. And I should of left for the way he treated and talked to me months ago or a year ago. He was so verbally abusive when we fought. and now to find out he was cheating on me in one full blown 6 months relationship and I'm sure he dated many other girls maybe not full blown relationships like the last one but I know he was cheating the whole time minus the first 5 months. maybe  :'(  

That is so horrible. This guy is REALLY sick. Know that it wasn't anything you did. You are right to question EVERYTHING he ever told you. You are probably correct on many things. Being faithful is a choice... .like being honest... .or truthful. But such manipulation?... .that is the worst.

You knew there were red flags flying now you look back. Hindsight is often 20/20. 

That man's lies were always going to unravel. It was only a matterof time. It's better that you know the truth. You were never going to be happy with that.

That man is just no good... .although there is good in you... .and that's what he wanted for himself. You already had it... .and you still have it.  :)

I hope you find peace with this. 

My pwBPD is (at the very least) an emotional cheater.  I say at the very least because I have my doubts whether or not she was physically cheating as well.  But, from what Ive read and discussed with others, not all of them cheat.  Many of them don't out of fear/guilt that would arise from that. But, they are people as well (meaning some 'normal' people cheat while others don't).

Really, I think mine does it out of the euphoria she gets from the Halo Effect (aka honeymoon phase; the rush of a new relationship; the fantasy of it all).  Eventually reality catches up to her.  For instance, I was supposed to attend a wedding with her in late June.  I had promised I would be her date in Jan or Feb.  June rolled around and I wasn't able to go.  She was bummed that I let her down and broke my promise.  So, rather than talk to me about it, she started a month long (at the very least) emotional affair on me with another guy.  I found out that they were dating through a mutual friend (who at the time didn't know Jane and I were 'seeing' each other).  When confronted, first she denied, then coldly admitted to it by saying that I was abandoning her (because of the whole June wedding thing) and she was moving on (more or less) for when I left her.  I found it to be a completely asinine chain of events, but that's also a mental disorder for you: you can't apply logic to an illogical act.

We were distant with each other and she seemed to come around to lucidity after that.  She said she felt so much guilt/shame for what she had done and it was uncalled for.  She swore up and down that nothing physical had happened (maybe its true, maybe not, but I operate on the assumption that she did because of history) with the other guy that they had only went out a few times to eat, etc etc.  In hindsight, I should've told her to hit the road then but I chose to stick it out because she was starting DBT.  Like I said, I wish I would've told her to leave then.  DBT, for her, has made it much much worse.  To the point that I am LC with her and will be NC very soon.  We've had a few 'discussions' about distancing and so on, but ultimately I know in my heart of hearts that she's already replaced me.  She can't be alone and if she's not with me (she really hasn't been for almost 6 weeks now), she's with someone else.  The pattern of behavior is the exact way it was when she was seeing the other guy.  This time, though, I'm exiting the scene before I get sucker punched again.

Sorry for the mini-rant, it's just been a long couple of days with her.

It is certainly not universal, but yes, it is very common for pwBPD to cheat and/or carry multiple relationships in parallel. There are many reasons why they do it, with fear of abandonment one of the most common.

It is less likely that your bf cheated out of malicious intent, but more likely out of fear and shame. It is also unlikely that anything you did or didn't do had any effect on his behavior.

That may be a tough concept for non-disordered people to wrap their heads around, but I encourage you to read several of the many, many posts on here that discuss cheating to help gain some insights. It still hurts a lot, especially right now, but for me at least, increasing my knowledge about BPD has helped me greatly with healing.

According to my dBPDxgf, she had cheated on every guy she's ever dated, but doesn't "know how to stop." You could call it "sex addition" if you like, but I personally think it has more to do with "shame addiction" than anything else.

Stay strong. I know it is hard, but if you are looking for answers, you found the right site.

Mine cheated on me multiple times. I once asked her to her face and said to her " Tell me right now that the 3 times you broke up with me you didn't sleep with other guys? " I knew the answer was yes.  You know what her answer was?  she didn't say yes i cheated, her way around it was that if she did was "Out of necessity" . It is unbelievable the crap i put up with. I really loved that girl. I kept thinking that there must be something good in her and kept taking her back.  I was wrong... .so wrong. These type of girls make good guys turn into Aholes. I miss her so much but at the same time I know she is going to keep doing this whoever she is with.

The messed up thing is that when she left this time... .she told me that maybe, just maybe in the future we can date again. I keep thinking about that. All I can think is that she left the door open so she can recycle me again.  Right !

Short answer yes. If not the entire time definately towards the end while finding a replacement. I consider any form of flirting or making new friends with the opposite sex behind your back as cheating. So even if sex with replacement isn't involved, I still consider that cheating. Also emotional relationships often occur. No physical activity just talking to members of the opposite sex behind your back. Mine probably did this one the most.

I'm pretty sure mine didn't cheat on me when we were exclusive. However, he did foster these strange romantic relationships with many women friends - overtly flirtatious, etc. Many of these lady friends have ended their friendship out of frustration with him. When we were together he would totally misrepresent it as "she wanted me and couldn't handle that I didn't want her back" but - after doing some prying - I found out that he was totally kindling and encouraging these women to fall all over him. He's pretty charming.

I am right there with you.  I am relatively certain mine did the same.  I didn't piece it together until after I got discarded, but in retrospect I believe she had several emotional affairs and perhaps even physical to some extent.  I always wondered what her definition of infidelity was, but I have my suspicions the line was penetration and anything else was permissible/justifiable/excusable.  

I am having a hard time trying to understand how someone can rationalize that in their mind, PD or not.

We openly talked about this when she was lucid.  4 years ago we had a 'relationship'.  I use the term loosely as I thought we were exclusive, apparently she forgot to mention to me that we weren't.  I was actually the other guy and it was purely emotional.  She would talk about the future (marriage, kids, etc) with me all the while sleeping with her then bf (that I knew nothing about).  After it all blew up, I found out I was one of about 6 guys she was 'talking' to.  She told me about how much shame and guilt she had (has?) for treating people that way.

So, fast forward 4 years (we were nc for 3, been in another relationship for 1) and with what happened in July I'm just not sure.  I think she probably didn't sleep with him (but only she and him know the truth), because she views sex as something intimate (or so she says) and exclusive.  So, I have a strong feeling that I was the one who "was allowed" to have sex with her, while the other(s) were potentials.  Also throw in the mix of all this that she has a husband (estranged - once again allegedly) and its a nasty mix really.

I was so deep in the FOG that I couldn't really see how messed up the past year has really been.  It hasn't been until the past 6-8 weeks that I've really started coming out of the infatuation haze with her and realized that the past year more likely than not has been an illusion.

Even now as I type this, I see how ridiculous it all sounds.  I've tried this year to make some sort of r/s work with her.  I still care about her deeply (probably always will) but what very very little trust I had in her has evaporated now.  She's almost 30 and refuses to see me outside the confines of work (even though she's the one that approached me yesterday about meeting tonight after work and then ST me right afterward to avoid me).  I'd like to say it was because she felt overwhelmed, but being a friday night, I bet dollars to donuts she had to go do something with my replacement (and its easier to dismiss me than him).  Anything to avoid a conversation with me because I no longer am a source of supply.

In the end, I was hoping to leave things amicably (and even maybe at some point be friends), but it turns out that things are just going to be the way they are.  I'm sad on one side for the loss, but on the other side I'm relieved that I'm getting out of the whirlwind.  I hope she stays in DBT and it works out for her... .but only time will tell that.

My uBPDxgf told me, on the verge of breaking up, that she had found someone else and explicitly asked me if 'I really didnt think I was cheated on?".

When I asked her if it was true, she said that what I had done was the same thing - except I was never with someone else, she's referring to pornography.

When we were on a break too, once, I found out she was hiding something from me and when I confronted her, she said she had kissed a guy she met on the subway. I didnt know how to react, and she said it didnt matter because we were 'not together anyway'.

I wonder how many times this has happened, thinking about how many times we had fought and she would block me for days... .

This has always ran through my mind.  I say that because of her history.  I'll back up and go from the start:

4 years ago she would block me out for days at a time (up to a week or so).  She always told me it was because she was fighting with her mom (or other family member).  She told me that line, a lot.  The final straw was after she told me that then broke down crying because she had had a pregnancy scare (note, we weren't sexual so to my surprise that bombshell was dropped on me).  So theres one instance that I know of.

She admits to cheating on her (then bf, now estranged) husband (Mike) just before they got engaged.  She said she did it because they were "having a rough patch" and she "didn't mean to do it but it happened" (ironically it was with the guy she was sleeping with when I was originally in the picture (his name is Nick)).  She claims her Mike based their divorce on her cheating on him before they were married.  Honestly, I think she slept with Nick after she married Mike and thats what caused the rift.  But, we've had many 'rough patches' over the past year, so who has she fled to during those times?

Her behavior has been more and more secretive over the past few weeks (freaks out when I'm around her phone, leaves it face down in my presence or close to her body when she looks at it, constantly fighting with her mom, etc).  I absolutely 100% believe she's either trying to get back with Mike, is with Nick, or is with someone entirely new.  The end result is that she hasn't changed from 4 years ago, she just did a better job of concealing it.  Don't get me wrong, I think she was somewhat regulated when we started up, but then again, I think I was the 'other guy' back then too.

I say that because she was living with her parents (allegedly) when we started up.  I would go over there (obviously when her parents weren't around - she vehemently wanted to make sure I wasn't introduced to her parents as a lover).  I made note of the fact that her room didn't look lived in and even went as far once as to look in the closet.  Noticing that her clothes weren't there and asked her about it, she claimed her clothes were in another closet because her dad used 'her' closet as a place to store his hunting items (which were in the closet).  She wouldn't show me the closet her clothes were in because we suddenly had to go back to work (we had lunches at her home frequently but I could never get to other closets for some reason... .hmmmm wonder why?).  There was also an issue with her car never being home in the wee early hours (I would drive past on my way into work, which was on the way, just to see if she was there).  When confronted about it, she always had an excuse.  The truth is, she was still with Mike.  She'll never admit it, but I know in my heart that was the case. 

I really sat down the other day and though about how much I actually 'had' her during this past year.  We'll say 12 months.  I say I probably had 3 good months total out of that 12 with her.  Thats on par with the 4 months (which were all pretty good) 4 years ago.  I was separated and started a divorce during all this myself, things really didn't fall apart until she could have me out in the open (then she scurried away like a roach to light after that).  I think she always loved the idea of me, but when she could have me, that was the end of the fantasy.  Reality caught up: it was time to make all she had promised come true and she couldn't do that.

I also further believe with all my conviction that she has slept with Mike (or someone) in the past 6 weeks, which is why she's avoiding me: out of shame because we were in a r/s (I specifically made it a point to make sure she understood that when we worked things out after the incident in July (Brian).

Ugh.  I get upset at myself even typing this, to put up with all I have in the past year.  I saw the signs, I just chose to ignore them.  What was I thinking?

hashtag wrote

There are many reasons why they do it, with fear of abandonment one of the most common.

----I have heard this. Does it mean that they fear one person will abandon them, so they have a back up person they cheat with just in case the other person leaves them?

Lonely_Astro, you could almost be talking about my ex.  She wasn't as bad as yours by a long shot, but she did get more secretive after she went to get "closure" from her ex about a week after she dumped me the first time.  

That night she called me to inform me she was going to his house, but didn't really let me know when.  Turns out she went right after she got off the phone with me and spent 3 hours there, according to her, which put it well past midnight.  She also let me know during that phone call that he had sent her an email weeks earlier expressing a desire to get her back and that she had been considering it but wouldn't because he wasn't me.  She also revealed she had been thinking about cheating on me earlier in the summer and that she had a problem with wanting to cross boundaries.   Funny thing is, that ex was the only who dumped her, according to her,  All her other relationships she was the one who dumped.   red-flag  

Sadly, she talked with him on and off throughout our relationship but she wants nothing to do with me AT ALL even though I treated her way better than he did (according to her).  

To this day I still don't know if she was trying to tell me in her own way she had cheated on me, or was going to.   I will never know the truth, but my gut told me at the time something was up and she wasn't being honest with me about something.

She once told me she would dump me before she cheated on me.  Then she dumped me and literally at the same time was lining up a date with a guy friend, whom she claimed she had no interest in sexually even though he had expressed interest.  They had been out a couple of times prior after we got involved and I didn't really care because I trusted her when she said he was only a friend.  Now I can only wonder if this was really true and I was a fool to trust her.

She also did that thing with the phone later on in our relationship which was very unusual for her.

Basically, yes.  I was once told they 'monkey branch' a lot.  Meaning they won't let go of one branch (you) until they firmly have a hand on another branch (your replacement).

Maybe you and I 'dated' the same girl?  Your account sounds very familiar to mine.  She has been talking a lot recently about how Mike has been sending her text and what not wanting to reconcile the divorce and get back together.  She claims to me that she doesn't want him because he was abusive (mentally and physically) and that she wants to be with me.  In the same breath though she'll talk about how she doesn't need to be with anyone until she fixes herself and so on.  She actually said the other day to me that "hopefully when I'm better, you won't hate me so much."  Total projection, because I never have led her to believe I hated her.  I told her that, too.  Not that it mattered.

Like I said, she's in DBT, but geez it doesn't seem to be helping at all.  I think she's (still) going, the way she talks unless she's read a lot about it to fool me leads me to believe it.  Of course, DBT is not a magic bullet and the success rates are promising, but they aren't a guarantee (one study I read showed that about 60% no longer meet the criteria, but in the same study accounting for various potential "errors", its estimated to be 50% success).  To me, that's what makes her so dangerous... .she knows what the problem is but doesn't really do anything about it (she's literally said to me that she knew being dismissive and STing me hurt me, yet she won't change anything about it).  She actually said to me that I could either ride out the storm with her (allow her to abuse me) or leave.  Now I feel she would only say that if she had a replacement (or two or... .) in hand, because I know her well enough to know that she can't be 'alone' like that.  Overall, her general behavior of late has led me to believe that she's moved on from me, she just doesn't want to shut that door.  Even as I type this, she has went radio silent.  I suspect it'll be like that all weekend and come monday she'll be angry at me for ignoring her all weekend.  I think the only reason I haven't went full NC yet is because I'm struggling for some sense of closure.  I have no idea why I feel like I need it (in the end its always been in my mind that it would end this way). 

Honestly, there was a time I was going to just ride it out for sex.  But, that is a source of anxiety with me because I don't trust her.  I'm just to anxious about what could happen (pregnancy, disease, etc) if I continued.  That's a shame really, she's absolutely gorgeous to see nude.  But, I digress.

In the end, I find myself back to square one.  Skip gave me the suggestion of just telling her I want a clean break and go silent after giving her a brief moment to respond.  I feel like I want to "break some dishes" as he put it and just let her have it because of the bs she's put me through.  I guess really I'm just angry at the whole situation and the players in this drama and it would feel like a great relief for me to just tell her how I really feel about her and walk off.  The human side of me is fighting that though.  She's sick (not an excuse) and I would feel like beating on a cripple after I did it.  But, in that moment, I would feel great to get it all off my chest.  Ugh.

And that REALLY hurts knowing this is the case, especially when you thought they were trustworthy and would never do this to you.

Not the same girl but a lot of similarities, like above.  She said almost exactly the same thing to me the first time she dumped me.

What I am most angry about is how I convinced myself she was someone she was not.  Even though I had gut instincts telling me otherwise, numerous red flags I saw and ignored, that nagging little voice in my head that said BE CAREFUL ... .I ignored them all and gave her the benefit of the doubt.   I did see huge potential in her if she could have gotten these undesirable aspects of her personality under control which makes losing her all the more difficult.  

I never asked her to "change" for me, but I did point these out and lay some boundaries down ... .which I let her cross.  Got to the point where she did it so often that I just gave up trying to get her to stop.   Letting her cross the boundary and eventually ceasing to care when she did was absolutely the wrong thing for me to do.  Our relationship may have been much better if I had enforced and not given up ... .but then maybe it would have gotten worse ... .who knows.  Not going to find out one way or the other.

The betrayal of trust via deception, the almost certain emotional affair(s), the continued threats used to manipulate me, complete lack of empathy for my feelings when she did hurt me ... . These are all things I thought she would never do to me, especially the emotional affair.  It has generated many many conflicting emotions and a great deal of pain.

I'd like to say not all of them do it, others may chime in.  Mine: constantly.  Thats her MO.  I can literally trace back from the time I was first involved with her and at no point has she ever been 'single' (she appears to be to the general public OR has a bf, when in reality she had/has multiple r/s going).  She, however, would never shut the door on someone unless she was busted outright and they leave her (thats how ours unraveled the first time... .the pregnancy scare that she told me about after about 2 weeks of ST).

Now, she claims that the entire time (after that *once time thing* with Nick) she was with Mike she was completely faithful.  She once broke down and cried to me about how she did everything he wanted her to do: she was on a schedule and if she ever varied from it, he would abuse her mentally (verbal abuse like name calling, etc) and sometimes physically (push her, grab her, etc).  I'm not making excuses for what he did, but I do understand why he had her on a short leash.  She always told me about how he never really cared about her but that he just wanted a trophy wife and thats all she was to him.  

The worst thing I had to listen to was about her being pregnant (presumably by Mike, she swears fidelity to him) and how when she told him his response was "well, is it even mine?"  She miscarried and his response was that he was glad because he neither wanted nor could afford a child.  Their 'anniversary' was the other day and she whined to me about that to.  She's been talking a lot about Mike recently, which makes me believe that she's went back to (or is trying to) him.  Part of me is upset because of that thought, the other part of me is indifferent.  Had I known that they actually were just separated and not divorcing (like she claimed) when we started up again, I wouldn't have gotten so invested in her.  But, c'est la vie.

Anyway, I've read that most BPDs monkey branch partners.  It has to do with abandonment issues, the fact they can never be 'alone', and the euphoria they feel with a new paramour.  Once the glow of you has worn off, they start looking for that rush again.

It's like the scene in the Matrix where the Oracle tells Neo to have a cookie.  You know, when she says "Oh, don't worry about it... .As soon as you step outside that door, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember you don't believe in any of this fate crap... .you're in control of your own life... .remember?  Here, take a cookie.  I promise by the time you're done eating it, you'll feel right as rain."

We all have seen the signs and chose to ignore them because we believed (on some level, at some point) that we would be the ones that made it with our pwBPD.  That this time they wouldn't hurt us or betray us.  We want to see all the good in our partners ourselves and explain away the bad because we love them.  Or, at least I did.  I rationalized what she was saying/doing by telling myself it would all be better and calm soon.  Once she fully got away from Mike.  Once she got away from her mom (who she claims is abusive and crazy, though I do have to admit I have been around for some of that, so thats not as far fetched as it seems).  Once she started DBT.  None of that came to pass in the end.  The only thing at the end of one tunnel was another tunnel with her.

Life's just to short man.  It's time for me to put the past to bed and move one with my life.  I could've been happy with her.  If she had been who she pretended to be with me, we could've made it work.  I have so many emotions right now, I can't even begin to explain them.

C stein wrote

Sadly, she talked with him on and off throughout our relationship but she wants nothing to do with me AT ALL even though I treated her way better than he did (according to her). 

-----So she had a back up person to talk to while she was in a relationship with you?  And now she is with someone else, and not talking to you, is that it?

-----WHat it is about your relationship, that she had you as the boyfriend before, and won't have you as the back up person now?  Is it that she would be emotionally involved if she talks to you?

---If not, what is it about you and her, that she could have you as the main person, but won't have you as the secondary person now? Is it all or nothing thinking, or something else?

I never established if my ex monkey branched in past relationships, but I expect she did to some extent.  She did claim she was "single" for a good period of time, like over a year, not sure what that really meant or how true it was.

Have to say, you are certainly more patient than I am, because at this point in my life I don't think I could handle all that nonsense you are dealing with.


Yes, it was the same for me.  I believed in her, gave her the benefit of the doubt because she was going through a difficult time in her life.  I stood by her and tried my best to help her stand on her own two feet without being her cane.  It did seem to stabilize somewhat after a while but I wonder if that is because I had already started to distance myself from her and we reached a "safe" zone between the abandonment/engulfment fears within her. 

Our love making was VERY intimate most of the time.  I could feel my heart opening up to her more and more every time.  Then she would do something that hurt me and I would back away and the wall started getting rebuilt.  This happened on numerous occasions, each time I could feel myself getting a little more numb and a new course of bricks were laid.  Without even realizing what I was doing I started spending less time with her and there was less physical intimacy.   I didn't purposely think I'm going to punish her but in retrospect I can see the somewhat passive-aggressive response (especially this year) to her behavior towards me.  This was wrong and if I had know about BPD and that my response was passive-aggressive I certainly would have acted much differently.   I feel quite ashamed and am having a lot of guilt and remorse for acting in this fashion.

In the beginning I tried and tried again to talk to her about how her behavior was hurting me and our relationship.  During those talks she acted very much like a child, pouting and sulking, playing the victim role like a pro.  When I would ask her why she did certain things she would always have some type of excuse, she just couldn't accept or see that her behaviour was coming from within her.   I can almost hear her now frantically trying to justify/shift blame for the emotional affair.   We were just friends.  You were never around.  Nothing ever happened.  I liked/wanted/needed the attention.  You weren't giving me what I needed.

What she needed from me I couldn't give her any more  ... .a positive mirror to make her feel better about herself.  She had hurt me badly and she never acknowledged that once or showed any empathy towards me.  Instead she just tried to sweep it under the rug and ignore it.   I was broken and the only thing I was mirroring at that point was her own shame and guilt.  I am certain she felt abandon this year, all the while not realizing she she had abandon me first and it was completely within her power to fix it.


You and me both man.  I am going through the whole gambit of emotions right now.  If I could just focus on one I might be able to make some progress addressing them but they are changing to quickly.

I now know that my exBPDg cheated on me all the time during our r/s, she also cheated on previous partners, constantly. No remorse, no apologies, kind of a game to her, justified by some weird 'transcendental logic'. Funny thing is that where we live -a tiny town- everybody ends up knowing all of this stuff. Always. What struck me was the way she would justify it. Absolutely out of any worldly sense. 

I don't think it was like that with her ex.  After she got her "closure" I think she only talked to him when she needed something from him, but now I have to wonder.  With me it is more than not talking with me, I have become like a disease to her.  She has showed zero feelings of any kind towards me since the final discard.


I am still unsure if she ever did the whole backup thing when she was with me other than the time around the first discard.  Perhaps in her distant past she did, we never talked about it in detail.  She told me once that I would never see her "dark side", I wonder just what that side is. 

I believe she is the type that once she devalues & detaches to this extent she never looks back.   I am certain she has heaped all the blame onto me for our relationship failing and for her damaging behaviour.  What she sees in me now is her true self.   By making me her scapegoat and completely turning her back on me without a hint of feelings or remorse she may feel that she is also leaving those bad feelings and parts of herself behind.  I told her on several occasions that she can't run away from herself and I believe that is what she is doing here ... .again. 

She's got a new positive mirror that is reflecting back what she wants to see, which is not her true self.  It is also possible she is doing this because it's not "fair" to the new guy to stay in contact with me, but I think that is more secondary than anything.  I don't necessarily want to stay in contact even though I do miss her friendship more than I care to admit, but it would be damned nice if she could acknowledge we had something together and show some remorse and accountability for her part in our relationship failing. 


Yes, that could be part of it.  She has said she has nothing more to say to me and doesn't want to get in any more discussions, which could be indicative of emotional avoidance.


I think it is both at this point.  The "all" for her is a family ... .none is goodbye to me.  In her second to last text to me she said she was incredibly depressed, couldn't study, was thinking about suicide because she needed to have that "family" to look forward to in her future to give her a reason to live.  While she was most likely being honest with me about that it was also an covert ultimatum.  Without actually saying it, her message was either I agree to give her the family she wanted or stop all contact.  I really believe she "thinks" a family and child will fix her; make her a good person, take away all her pain.  Sadly without doing some work on herself I fear (know) the "family/child" will have the opposite effect on her emotional well being. 

As far as being a secondary person I want nothing to do with that knowing I have been replaced, nor have I given her any reason to think that is an option ... .EVER.  She crossed a boundary with me that cannot be uncrossed regardless of how much I love her.  I will say however at this point in time I am weak and have even tried to convince myself that she just told me she was in a new relationship to get me to leave her alone.  If that is the case it is quite cruel of her to do that because she does know how I feel about her and how much it would hurt me knowing that she had a new guy.

Part of me wants to believe we could have made it work, that she still has the potential for positive self-actualizing change in order to be her best self.  The other part of me sees her as incapable of personal growth and she will never be anything but what she is now and she will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

This is one reason why I am having such a hard time disconnecting myself from her, I see the potential.  I am also having a very difficult time keeping in touch with my own feelings at the time of the final discard.

My ex did.  And I am now confident that I only know a small part of what really went on.  He worked out of town during most of our relationship on a 4 day on/4 day off schedule and when he was on his days on he stayed with his sister so I wouldn't see him for the whole 4 days although we did communicate by text and/or phone almost every day.  When things blew up between him and I last year he admitted to a year long affair during one of the worst years in our relationship.  But looking back, he was always secretive with his phone... .keeping it nearby, upside down and ALWAYS clearing out all of his text messages when he came home (claimed it bogged down his memory... .yeah, right... .).  At one point, I pulled up our phone records and highlighted all the numbers he appeared to repeatedly call when he was out of town but not at home, and questioned him on them.  He couldn't identify them and I was so deep in the FOG I didn't bother calling the numbers myself.  I wish I had... .I would have learned a lot.

During the entire 15 years I was with him, he was always in touch with wives and gf's of his friends, texting, calling and meeting them for lunch and even helping them out.  It appeared that he was trying to look like a hero to everyone else except me which always frustrated me.  I remember listening to him on the phone with the ex wife of one of his friends and giving her all kinds of sympathy because of the abuse she suffered at the hands of his friend, her husband.  When he hung up the phone, I looked at him in horror and asked him how he could give her that sympathy knowing all the emotional abuse he put me through.  The look on his face was priceless and he admitted that it was wrong and that he suddenly understood what I had been through.  And yet, nothing changed... .he just kept his sympathetic conversations with this woman to times I wasn't around.  I now think he may have carried on an affair with her.

When we were dating, I saw an email from a woman across the country talking about how she couldn't wait to meet him.  This came the very week he mentioned having to fly across the country for work... .so it was suspicious.  He then gave me some stupid story about his email getting crossed with his friend's and his friend was in fact the man who was going to meet this woman.  I was so stupid... .I believed it.  

After admitting that he had a year long affair he also admitted that he met a woman for coffee one time and "felt so guilty he cut it off mid coffee".  Yeah sure.  :)uring the time of his year long affair he constantly accused me of cheating on him too, and I wasn't.  I didn't know it then, but I now know that was blatant projection.  I am convinced that he cheated on me for our entire 15 year relationship.  I am so mad at myself for believing the lies and trying to see the good in him despite all the signs to the contrary.  I am digging deep within myself to never let this happen again.

Are you positively sure we weren't seeing the same girl? 

Anyway, I can positively link back to her monkey branching relationships.  She claims she doesn't, but timelines just don't match up.  She always had a paramour of some sort or fashion (confirmed, rumored, or otherwise).  I literally have known of no time since I've known her has she ever not been without a male companion in her life.

Don't beat yourself up over the passive-aggressive behavior you showed during the r/s.  One thing you'll probably come to realize is that you weren't really you in all this.  What I mean by that is you were forced to behave irrationally at times out of FOG or simple frustration.  I look back on the 3 years that I wasn't around her and I realize how much happier and level I was during that time.  Once she came back into my life, I began to change.  I've ended up being angry, confused, compulsive, and paranoid.  All that has stemmed from my own fears of her hurting me again (which she has done, several times).  Yes, some would say I have the patience of a saint to try to work through everything but it hasn't been until the past several weeks that I realized how much of a mirage it all was.

The r/s was real to me.  It may have been partially real to her.  I saw what she wanted me to see and she saw what she wanted to see.  When that mirage began to dissipate and reality closed in, she fled.  That's extremely common for a BPD.  They will only let you so close before they leave or do something to sabotage the r/s.  I went in with the hope that it wouldn't, but secretly always knew it would end like this.  I had hoped that I wouldn't get emotionally attached enough for it to matter, but I did.  I will always look back on the good times we had with a bittersweet filter on it.  There were great times, but the price I paid for those great times was far to high. 

It still hurts to know that I didn't matter really (even though she would swear up and down that I did and still do), that it was all a game to her.  Literally every 'conversation' we have now is about her and how bad she feels.  Everything goes back to her and if it isn't about her, she isn't interested.  All I hear about now is how hard life is for her, etc etc.  Frankly, her life isn't bad.  She's almost 30, no kids, lives at home for free, has a nice car, has a decent paying job with good benefits, always has nice clothes, and has zero responsibilities (other than a car payment and you'd think that was just unmanageably high and it isn't).  But, because her mommy doesn't love her enough or because her grandparents died (almost 15 years ago, btw) or because her last living grandmother has a terminal illness, life is just to to much for her.  If I empathize with her, listen to her, and then start to talk about the struggles I have (just as a sort of sharing thing, not to invalidate), she shuts me off completely (dehumanizes me). 

Honestly, at this point, I want to rage out on her about what a selfish, self-serving, pathetic miscreant she is that makes the world a darker place, even though she has the ability to bring the world up, she chooses to bring it down.  That's what angers me the most.  She knows she does this to people.  She's very self-aware that she uses people.  She literally doesn't care about anyone but herself (though to hear her talk about herself, she makes herself sound like the pillar that people fall on because they know how much she cares.  She even said that she was tired of people crying on her shoulder because she guessed she just "cares to much about people".  Ha!  Right.).  But like I've said in other posts, I may feel good for doing it in the moment but I would feel horrible afterward because I literally just beat on (metaphorically, I would never do so physically) a cripple.

The crazy part is that even though I'm harboring this emotion right now (anger), I know that it's a temporary emotion.  I want to lash out because of how she's treated me (dehumanized/devalued) and no doubt others.  It would serve little point other than to make myself feel good in the moment to rip into her (and I can swear that this is what she wants me to do, I guess to justify to herself that I've always been this monster in the closet waiting to get out and the evil she has done to me was completely justified - basically to get over the guilt and shame she's feeling over treating me / doing things she done).  I mean, that way she's not like "I treated this super nice guy badly and I feel horrible for it" versus "I told you he was crazy and a monster.  He got what he deserved!"

I'm still processing a lot of what's happened and what I've realized whats been going on in the FOG.  It's just going to take time for me to balance back out again.  That will come in time, with introspective inventory.

C Stein wrote---

it would be damned nice if she could acknowledge we had something together and show some remorse and accountability for her part in our relationship failing. 

-----Yes it would. But acknowledgin that you had something together would cause her to feel upset that she no longer has it with you,  which is a loss. ANd loss is a juge trigger for them, so it may be a defense for her to "pretend" you didn't have much of anything together... .that is less painful to lose that acknowledging  she lost a deep relationship.  THey lie to us sometimes, and they lie to themselves about what they lost, and they have defense mechanisms which protect them for acknowledging the loss.

---So she didn't necessarily have a backup when she was with you. ANd you don't want to be the back up now.  SOunds like from what you wrote, you are a trigger for her feelings now. ANd her not wanting to talk about things is emotional avoidance, as you wrote. It is just too painful for her.

Lonely Astro wrote--

But, because her mommy doesn't love her enough or because her grandparents died (almost 15 years ago, btw) or because her last living grandmother has a terminal illness, life is just to to much for her. 

----Even though she has easy parts of her life financially, the above things are very upsetting for a BPD. Even if the grandparents died 25 years ago, BPDs feel a loss very deeply.  And feelings are black or white, and intense and magnified for them.  So to her it probably feels like life is awful, though rationally it's not

---Your anger is understandable. But don't let that lead you into thinking that the relationship was only real to you and not real to her. It is likely that it was a real relationship to her (even though she didn't treat you with respect).

You know, I was very much the same and I have a really hard time convincing myself she didn't feel the same, being real and all that.  


I know she wanted me to be closer to her than I was during a good portion of the relationship.  In the beginning I bent over backwards to spend time with her.  This was also the time when she exhibited the BPD type behavior the most.  I remember asking her on several occasions why she seem to be hell bent on destroying everything good in her life.  She couldn't come up with a good answer for that.


Me too ... still trying to process.  Today the challenge seems to be me trying to determine if she was serious or not about being in a new relationship or she just told me that so I would stop texting her.  It's not like I was doing it all the time, just twice in the past month.  Perhaps she told me that because texting her is just bringing up all the emotions again?  There were a couple of things when I said goodbye to her that might suggest this is the case.  On the other hand there are many things that suggest she was having an emotional affair, so I am left with having to take what she said at face value?  

I have to admit it is really bugging me because I still feel she has much potential and I might consider a reconciliation if she isn't/hasn't been with a new guy.  I just don't know if she can pull herself out of her own mind and fog.  I'm half tempted to contact her housemate to find out if she really does have a new BF, but that is probably stepping across the line and probably wouldn't get a straight answer anyhow.

Regardless, either way I think in her mind I am a dead end and she has wasted enough time on me (she's brought up that wasted time when she broke up with me).   Me and my emotional well being is a waste of time ... .that hurts.

Well, this is certain all possible knowing her, being primarily a waif.  Our last big fight, the day she broke up with me for the second time, I called her a pathological liar in anger.  This "label" really bothered her.  I wonder if somewhere deep down she knows there may be some truth in that "label"?  She did lie and deceive me ... .how much she did it throughout our relationship I don't really know with certainty.  I do have a lot of gut instincts throughout that were telling me she was lying.  She does have a problem with lying but not necessarily pathological.

I apologized for it many times afterwards, but even on the day we said goodbye months later it still bothered her.  It came up when I suggested we start over again.  Her reply was I don't think so in that "never again" tone of voice.  Then she brought up the "label" again but quickly shut herself down saying she didn't want to get into it again.

I believe she thinks I feel that everything she says to me is a lie, so why bother saying anything.  She has decided that I won't believe anything she says, which isn't necessarily true.  So given this she could have lied about the "new relationship" figuring what's one more lie since he already thinks I'm a liar.  

I never thought trust couldn't be rebuilt, all she needed to do was make an effort to help rebuild it but she never did.  I have to admit this is really got me wondering because a part of me wants to reconcile with her.

Perhaps I am just desperately reaching for straws that aren't there.

I understand that it was real to her.  I'm just angry right now and lashing out because of it.  I've read countless books, studies, commentary, and everything else I could consume on BPD to better understand and process it when we came crashing down 4 years ago.  I never suspected that I would fall for her again, not after the train wreck that happened before.  But, it seems, I fell for her to easily and let her overstep various boundaries I had put in place for myself (some she knew of, others she didn't because she was always looking for a loophole). 

In the end, I know I'll heal like I did back then, it just sucks to lose what I thought I had all over again.  She really did (does?) mean the world to me.  I'm reminded of the song by Nelly "Over and Over".  I have  many songs that I listen to right now.  Music has become an escape for me (again), which tells me that I am truly grieving over her.  I'm so torn about what I'm about to say next... .part of me wishes it would've never happened again while the other part of me is so glad that I was able to experience her on a deeper level this time.  That just seems hard to explain to me.

My ex called me a liar right after telling she didnt really cheat on me as she had said, despite wanting to, because I did not respect her and lied to her (I did, yes, but no cheating) - so everything I said to her after that was a lie. Thing is all I wanted to give her was all the affection I could provide, and I wish I had been better at that, I wish I could have made her happy.

Thats made me think that yes, the r/s is real to them and up to what point is she right/am I wrong? To what point is she really BPD or just a regular person and I'm the one who's mistaken?

I suggested her to look into BPD but regretted doing so, and I apologized to her because yeah, that's pretty disrespectful to someone too.

My ex didn't cheat physically on me although she did choose to triangulate me with a male friend and also became very friendly with her ex husband whom she claimed raped her. This happened after she went ballistic at me for relationships I had prior to meeting her or even knowing her

Little oak wrote--

My ex didn't cheat physically on me although she did choose to triangulate me with a male friend

---Can u give details?  WHat is triangulating, if she wasn't dating the other person?

Lonely astro wrote---

I never thought I'd fall for her again after the train wreck before

----So you broke up 4 years ago? 

How long was the break up for?

Was there a triggering reason? 

What was the more recent trigger for the recent break up?

They do fear one person abandoning them, and that one fear (either real or imagined) can certainly trigger defensive behavior, which could include cheating.

Yes to the "monkey branching", especially for those pwBPD that juggle multiple r/s. Their biggest fear is being abandoned by everyone (and therefore forced to finally confront their immense aloneness) so the more branches you grab onto, the greater the chance of always holding onto at least 1 branch.

Triangulating is when the person portrays the victim,you as the persecutor and another person as a rescuer. I read up on it it's called the karpman drama triangle... .probably worth a new topic on its own... .have a read on wiki

Yes, 4 years ago we started a r/s.  At that time neither of us knew she had BPD.  It was purely an emotional (we never slept together) r/s, but it was intense.  It lasted about 4 months or so.  I'm honestly not sure what the triggering reason was for her, but I was the other guy (unknown to me).  She had a bf (though she told me she had broken up with him when our r/s started) but in secret (to me that is, everyone else in her life knew she was still seeing Nick, I just didn't know that because everyone else didn't know about me) she was still seeing/sleeping with him.  We used to constantly argue over her not wanting to see me (have dinner, etc) and she was always unavailable.

The moment it all really fell apart was when she told me that she was "falling more and more in love with me" everyday.  Keep in mind that was a few months in and I was so enamored with her that I had rationalized the previous several weeks by accepting her explanations of her on/off ST with me as fact (she typically used the excuse that she was arguing with her mom/grandma as a reason to ignore me).  In that same conversation I asked her on a picnic, since it was a nice spring day.  She immediately went ST.  Of course, I didn't know what BPD was then or what was going on so I text her several times and called throughout that day with no response.  After several hours she sent me a text of her and a girl I didn't know in bikinis at a pool party.  Of course I was a bit taken aback by it, as it seemed so random.  She didn't reply to my response to that text.  It was a week or two later (of ST from her), she contacted me out of the blue and requested to meet her at a favorite spot of ours.  When I got there, I was totally unprepared for what was about to come from her.  She broke down almost immediately and started crying.  She proceeded to tell me the reason she had been avoiding me was because she had had a pregnancy scare.  Now, keep in mind, we had never been sexual with each other so you can imagine my response.  After that, everything changed and it was never the same.  I went LC with her then that drifted naturally to NC.  I was totally NC with her (sans work related things since we work together and even then it was as a last resort).

Just before NC happened, she had told me she knew something wasn't right with her and she found out she was BPD.  She told me she was going to 'get better', but I was so devastated by the betrayal that I walked away.  NC was there for 3 years.  We both moved on with our lives during that time.  She dated and married a guy, but the marriage only lasted for 6 months or so and I had heard she was separated and getting a divorce from him.  During the time of their courtship (which was roughly about the time I was on the fringes of her life, he comes in by my timeline), she seemed to 'go straight'.  After that, she was no longer involved in rumors and she just seemed more 'put together'.  Secretly I was jealous because I wondered what this guy had that I didn't, the magic formula so to speak.

Anyway, we were forced to ride together (alone) in a company car to a convention for work.  I dreaded it because I didn't know how it was going to go.  She actually openly (and what I felt was honestly) apologized for her behavior and treatment (and the hell she put me through - her words).  She told me how therapy had helped her and she was medicated.  After that trip, we started having conversations again (nonromantic, just friendly).  As time passed, we became closer but I still kept her at arms length.  We would talk about what was happening with her pending divorce and all that, of course, like normal people do.  I would talk about what was going on in my life and so on.  Then that evolved into romantic discussions.  We had several long, involved, and even complex discussions about fears and expectations of going down that path again.  I don't believe she willfully lied to me then, it just didn't play out that way in the end.

At the time, I was separated myself (one of the reasons I was cautious of starting a new r/s, which I was very frank with her about).  I simply didn't like the fact we would have to be a secret because that didn't fair so well for me the last time around plus it could complicate other matters.  But, logic went out the window with the candied hook.  After more long discussions, we ended up being romantic.  But, it was completely different than it was 3 years prior.  She would always text, call, go out with me, come over to my place (I couldn't go to hers because she lived with her parents and she was open that her mom would physically beat her or something if I came around because technically Jane was still married).  Things went fairly well up until February of this year and things started popping up that was odd for me, which I pointed out to her (as per our previous discussions she wanted me to ask questions when I had them).  During that same time, there was a friend of hers wedding happening in late June and she asked me if I would be her date.  I said of course I would, provided that we could (meaning if our divorces were final to prevent any issues - she was constantly worried about her estranged husband harming us if he found out as she claims he was violent).  Well, June rolled around and I couldn't go with her (I had found out a few weeks before that her divorce papers had been 'misfiled' and no divorce filings were on record.  Basically, she wasn't divorcing Mike like she told me was how I saw that, which led to a huge argument).  She became very distant after I missed my 'date' with her.  I found out in late July that she had been 'dating' another guy for that month because I had abandoned her (in her mind) because I didn't fulfill my promise to be her date and I was never going to fully be hers (even though at that point neither of us was officially divorced).  Typing that makes me realize how much of an idiot I've been.

Things were strained after that and I started to walk away then because one of my boundaries was her cheating on me.  She didn't see it as cheating because she hadn't slept with him (which, technically was what I said to her was that if I found out she had slept with someone during my time around her, I would leave), she found the loophole as it was.  Anyway, against my better judgement, I decided to stick around.  August and September were pretty decent months overall.  Jane told me that she felt so horrible about what had happened in July that she was going to start DBT to be better for herself and us.  Keep in mind she told me she had already been in DBT back when we started.  I asked her about that and she told me she thought it was DBT, but it wasn't and that she was going to find someone actually trained in DBT.  "Ok, fair enough," was my thought since DBT is highly specialized.

After a bit of heehawing about starting DBT (she said she was doing it late July or early August but didn't finally go until mid September), DBT seemed to make it all much worse.  At least for me it did.  She has completely reverted back to the way she was 4 years ago (although, as FOG lifts and I see things more clearly it seems that she's been playing me for a long time).  I think she's probably still going to DBT, but I'm not sure.  When October rolled around, she distanced herself from me tremendously.  Literally we would just argue all the time because I wanted to spend time with her (she would agree to dinner or whatever and then ghost me).  We fought for the first couple of weeks of October and I happened to be present when she was served with divorce papers (at work).  She completely unraveled it seems, so I think that was the trigger along with we had planned a weekend getaway together around the same time.  I think the walls fully closed in on her and she has had a 'break' so to speak.

I also believe that she doesn't want to be around me out of shame/guilt of seeing/sleeping with someone.  It's totally her MO to do that in times of crisis on her lovers.  I may have meant something at some point, but now I am nothing to her (though we are still LC, she gets mad because I am not talking to her even though she frequently doesn't respond to a text from me).  I feel that I am going to move fully NC with her soon, for my own sake.  I want some closure, which is the only reason I am still in contact with her at all but I don't think I'll get it.  A part of me wants confirmation that she's betrayed me so it would be easier for me to sever ties with her.  I don't know why I feel like I need the vindication, I just do.

The final straw for me was Friday.  She agreed to meet me so we could talk (she approached me about setting it up and then ST me that night).  I had to go to the office early Saturday morning so I couldn't help myself and I drove by her house, her car wasn't there.  It was just before dawn and I know she sleeps late on Saturdays.  Basically, in my mind, she spent the night with my replacement (and this is where anger/jealousy/a flood of other emotions come in).  I'll stop here for now.

Sorry for the super long book, but hopefully that will bring you up to speed.

I'm certain mine cheated physically and emotionally with more of the triangulation aspect, first was with her best friends husband and I believe this was going on for a few months until we moved cities.

Once I realised this and started to learn about BPD, I started to make my exit plan.

The 2nd time was so obvious once I knew what signs to look for, by this time I was just relieved that the breakup would hopefully be less dramatic if she had someone else to occupy her thoughts.

I honestly believe they all cheat, whether it be emotional or physical.  I've been with two BPDfm and they both have been  in relationships with other men behind my back.  Anytime you hear "I think of him as my brother" or "we are just close friends" beware.  I'm not here to say that women can't have  males as friends, but in my humble opinion when it comes to the BPD mindset they do not draw the line and will cross it  whenever possible. I mean after all isn't this about lack of impulse control when it comes to BPD?  Isn't this about narcissistic supply--and the need to not be abandoned?

If you question them they will make you feel like you are the crazy one for even thinking they would do such a thing.  

It's really strange when I reflect on the past few months and see how much mine was cheating in some way, whether it be emotionally or physically.  What I mean by that is I have suspected/confirmed her of being involved with me, Mike (her 'ex' husband), Nick (the guy she cheated on me with or I cheated on him with her or however one wants to look at that... .also she cheated on Mike with Nick as well - she claims prior to them being engaged/married but I honestly feel now it was during), Brian (the guy in July) and I suspect possibly another one in the course of just this year.  I think they were somehow veiled confessions.  For instance:

She would tell me about how Mike would call her derogatory names and how he's glad she lost their baby and then tell me about how he was trying to woo her back or mention to her that he wanted to sleep with her again since they were 'technically' married. 

Another time, I was having lunch with her in a park and a truck went by and she told me that I would be upset with who that was.  I was confused (I was on a heated rant about work at the moment) about what she meant and she said "that was Nick in that truck and he was looking hard over this way to see who I am with."  Which was even more odd because she had gotten a new car when her and Mike got married, so Nick shouldn't have ever known what she was driving (something I pointed out and she rebuffed it by minimizing it).  This was also a couple of months after I was looking at her phone (I was thinking of upgrading to what she had, so I was messing with it) and Nick called her.  That led to an argument and she had some totally false reason for him to be calling her (she had changed numbers when she started dating Mike, so there was no legitimate reason for Nick to have her number).  There was a very heated argument that ensued over the truck going by incident.  I never fully got over that, honestly.

She told me Brian would still text her (this was a couple of weeks after we agreed to move forward with the r/s) but that she didn't reply to him in hopes he would simply go away. 

The former lover that asked me to compare notes with him sent her a message saying 'hi' shortly after he had talked to me (I don't know his motive), but she felt the need to screenshot it to me.  I inquired to why he had her number and why his was saved in her phone as well... .once again she minimized it.

Really, on reflection, I think the only reason why I stuck it out as long as I did was for hope that it would get better (love) and for the sex.  It certainly wasn't because I trusted her (which explains my anxiety I would feel after sleeping with her).  I tried to respect her (and during the time, I did), but now I don't really because all the pieces line up that I was one (the primary one at some point) of several supply lines.  Thinking about that upsets me, knowing I so willingly stayed in the FOG.  Maybe I'm just angry, but right now, I'd certainly like to rip into her about the past few months.  But, what's the point?

There is no point.  She won't see any of your points because you think logically and she is wired differently than you are.   I'm currently trying to end it slowly with a BPDfm who I was dumb enough to engage at my work place with.  She's currently involved with a guy I've known for 16 years who also works there, but claims they are just "close friends".  I can tell that he's absolutely not familiar with what a BPD is and he takes everything she says at face value and the worst part is she's driven a wedge between us and I'm reasonably certain she has him convinced I'm crazed.  He definitely doesn't know that she and I are involved. The sad thing is she still wants to keep me around despite the fact that I told her there was no reason for it.  Why? Because they need backups, they don't want to be abandoned, etc.  I hear you about the anxiety, mine has been off the charts lately because I know I'm not the only guy she's involved with sexually or emotionally.   As funny as it sounds it would have been far easier to have her tell me in the beginning that she just wanted to be friends with benefits rather than have me convinced I was the only guy in her life that she was being intimate with on several levels.  Honesty is something you rarely if ever get from them. They have gone their entire lives embellishing the truth or just flat out lying.

They are pathological liars and are so polished at it 85% of the people out there believe everything they say.  If you pay attention there are holes in most of their stories, but who in normal every day life pays attention to every detail to a story, its just maddening really.  The problem is if you call them out on anything they will never admit it and that's what ends up driving you crazy.   The hardest part I think is to walk away from the mess and not have the ability to tell anyone who will believe all of the chaos and drama.  It's all bottled up inside so it's a very long process to let go.

Funny side note: She told me today that she thinks I deliberately try and catch her in a lie because I'll ask about something again two days later to see if I get a different answer... .Um yeah, because I don't trust her as far as I can toss her.  

What really bothers me is how I choose to ignore all the signs, even the ones I saw clearly.

I wasn't sticking around for the sex, it had stopped.   I was sticking around because I had hope that she might step up and be the person I fell in love with after she had broken me with a month long deception (not an affair).  Instead she just let me drown in my pain and ran to another man.  That is what love means to her ... .abandon the person you love and go have an affair when your partner needs you the most.  

I feel sorry for the guy who she can quickly push into marriage because she needs some serious internal work before she is ever ready for a marriage, let alone a family.  Who knows, my replacement might be the "lucky" one.  Sigh ... .and I had wanted to be the "lucky" one.  At least I listened to my internal warning bells with regard to being pushed into a marriage.

But where would she get all the drama, pain, triangulation, self-loathing, sympathy from others, guilt, scapegoat, ego boost, fairy-tale fantasies, and narcissistic supply if she was just straight-up and honest with you? :D

It's hard to tell now, but trust me, you are the lucky one! She is out of your life and you have the power to ensure she never returns.

It might be a rough landing at first, but getting ejected from BPDland is the best thing for your health long-term.

The anxiety was the worse and she could tell I was having it.  I could never openly admit to her (that would've guaranteed an argument for sure) why I had the anxiety.  She always felt like I was persecuting her for her past if I brought up any issues of infidelity, even though we had discussed it at length when I agreed to start seeing her romantically.  Really, she was so different in the beginning.  I'm 99% certain that how she was then was a mask to snare me back into feeding her supply.  Things were different then, she was much closer to normal than she is today. 

Sex, for us, increased in frequency until it stopped around July (when she started seeing Brian).  She claims that she stopped having sex with me 'out of respect' (she still swears she never slept with him, but I highly doubt that), which is why she emotionally pulled away too.  In reality, she pushed me away because she found fresh supply and I think only 'came back' because he said/did something that made her mad.  He has no idea of BPD and I know him too, theres no way he'd put up with her crap very long. 

I say the best time that our sex life experienced was right before the big push away.  It was literally a week long sexcapade.  Then, she was gone.  As strange as it sounds, Aunt Flo showed up (she would never be sexual when the cramps started and it all had to be over before she would resume) and we never recovered after that.  At first, I didn't push the subject until we were in the midst of an argument and I brought it up.  I told her that it was a big deal to me that she didn't want to be intimate because of what had happened with Brian.  The response I got was "you can either let that go or not.  It's your call."  So let me get this right... .you cheat on me for a month and not two months later, you're telling me that I need to just let it go because you're behaving the exact same way you did when you were cheating on me then?  Got it.  And yes, that was my response.  Needless to say, blow up ensued.

Basically, I'm a good two months out of our r/s and am just now accepting that it's over.  I'm not sure why I wanted it to work out, I think I was holding onto the hope that DBT would be the magic bullet that fixed it all and I would be able to have my cake and eat it too.  DBT made things much much worse, or at least she's using it as an excuse.  I think she's lied a lot about that, to.  One moment she'll tell me that her therapist has told her that Jane and I don't need to be together because we're bad for each other.  A few days later she told me that she has written about how much I mean to her (etc etc) in her journal and the therapist has told her I need to read the entries.  So which is it?  I'm bad for her or I'm good for her?  It was confusing.

The whole thing has really taken me for more of a whirlwind than I had expected.  I didn't realize how enmeshed I have become with her during this past year.  In retrospect, I should've left at the first whiff of something not being right and I certainly should've told her to go pound sand when she pulled that stunt in July.

C.Stein,

This is exactly what has happened to me in my relationship with her. I feel so betrayed. After how many times she told me that she loved me and she was glad she was with me. It's going to take a very long time to believe a girl loves me. Or I will be very hesitant.  It seems that they can leave you and be with some other guy 2-3 weeks later.  This has open a a whole new world to me for sure.

I think most of us do until we are slapped in the face with indisputable evidence.  It is almost sad to read post from those on this site who have not yet caught their spouse in an affair, talking of how it does not occur with all BPDs because, as far as they know, it has not occurred in theirs.  They describe the same signs and red flags some of us now know all too well, yet chalk them up to something else.  People have a natural tendency to believe their spouse is not capable of doing such a thing.  They forget that if it can happen in normal marriages, odds are it is happening far more frequently in marriages where personality disorders exist.  Funny how our spouses can rage, cut themselves, and even call police on us... .but we can continue to tell ourselves our BPD spouse is not cheating on us... .they would not do that.

You know, it's not the first time (or second, or third, or fourth) that I have been cheated on.  You would think by now I would be well versed in the signs.   I really wanted to believe the best in this woman and she let me down in a BIG way.   I thought she was better than this, what a huge disappointment.

That how I feel. However, you have to look at this in the long run we are better off. Eventually you would be in this same situation in 4... .5 or 10 years and possible with kids with her. Then, you would be deeper into this. We are hurting right now, but really... .we were let go easy. Some other guy won't be as lucky as us. I've read some guys here that the ex call the police on them or they have been charged and whoever know what else. So yeah, I feel lucky to a degree.

When I first met my ex the first thing she ever told me is how she cheated on her fiancee who she had been with for 5.5 years with a married man and had been doing it behind his back for a year.  She qualified that by saying how her fiancee had been cold and hadn't fulfilled her needs but she felt guilty and would never cheat again.

But she always had these satellite guys she admitted to sleeping with in the past - she hated to say she had been seeing them but they were ex-sexual partners and they were  always texting her and she couldn't see why I was annoyed and paranoid that she thought it was acceptable to keep in contact with them.  She met for lunch dates with guys when she was in a different city on work but, now in my opinion, always tried to over justify her actions and the things they text her. These guys were always far too friendly and my guy went off each time.  She eventually did admit to me that she cheated on me with a guy from her work (who was one of the satellites I had a problem with).  This was after her telling me that she didn't see him that way any more.

She craved male attention and I told her once and she became infuriated, probably because she knew it was true and I had touched a nerve.  On a 2 week all-inclusive holiday for couples the DJ took a shine to her and I told her to watch out for him as he was hitting on her.  Towards the end of the holiday we had had a massive fight but partially made up.  She had been at the pool and I had gone back to the room.  She text me saying she was going to have a drink at the bar to celebrate it being a year of us buying our flats.  When I said I'd come back and join her she told me not to bother as she would be back at the room soon.  My gut told me something was wrong and so I went back to the pool and there she was, changed seat in the corner with the DJ having a drink with him.  On the last night  I caught her in the bathroom Facebooking the DJ who I later found out asked her back to his room for a drink.  I suspect the only reason she didn't go was because I was in the room as well and things were already on tenterhooks with us.

Looking back on it now, she only admitted to cheating once but there are tens of times where I now realise there is a massive possibility she slept with someone.

People naturally choose to believe what they want to believe. That's one reason why it is so hard to treat BPD. For instance:

Nons: "My SO could never cheat! Can't you see how he/she is so in love with me?"

pwBPD: "I may have cheated on every boyfriend I've ever had, but this time is different. He might be "the one!" I'm so in love with him I would never, ever cheat on him!"

(or after cheating on him) "Well, he was probably going to leave me anyway, so this is really his fault."

Deep down, they know.


Ohhhhh... .yes! "Massive possibility" is certainly an understatement.

I've so been there. Your situation sounds exactly like mine really. That is why I dumped her. I could not trust her at all. Every time she went out with her girlfriends (supposedly) my mind would start to wonder. I've been kicked out of bars because of her. She used to flirt with guys and then they would not leave her alone. I had to get rid of them nicely and if they would not leave I had to be violent towards these people. I felt disrespected by her and them. To a degree I don't blame these guys, she was giving them the "green light" so they thought they could get some.

Holidays was the same. There were times she wanted to stay at the bar after us arguing. She would not make it to our room until 2am or 3am.  Who knows what happened then.

Thinking back... she loved this. She felt wanted and attractive because there were guys fighting for her. It is really messed up. The thing is that her Self-steam was so low and she always said she was fat which she wasn't at all. She slept with all these guys and cheated all the time to "Prove" to herself that she is good looking and men want her. Really sad ! Believe me she will be contacting me in 3-4 months. I have already blocked her from everything.

My ex also craved attention from males.  I told her I didn't really care how she dressed but I asked her to consider what her real motives were when "she dressed to kill".   Honestly, what is the reason to dress like that if not to advertise availability and to get men to strip you naked with their eyes?   Girls?

I thought she was beautiful in a t-shirt and jeans with no make-up, and I told her that.  I also thought she was beautiful when she "dressed to kill" for me, but I didn't need her to do that in order for me to be attracted to her or think she was beautiful.

*mod*

The topic of discussion has reached it's post limit and is now locked. You are welcome with starting a new or similar topic of discussion. Thanks.