BPDFamily.com

Short timeline

She reaches out

Wants to rekindle

Things go well

Find out she had casual sex (possibly after reaching out)

She lies about it

Eventually admits

I try to break it off

She begs me not to

I give one more chance

She distances and starts to devalue me

Arguments

Over

So here I am again. First 5 days are done and I'm starting to feel better. I realize that I made some mistakes but the bottom line is due to her BPD (which she won't get treated) she cannot communicate like an adult. And I'm tired of being devalued for getting angry at things SHE has done wrong.

Honestly I already feel less stressed.

I remember you from a while back because I commented in the thread where you said you could handle a recycle. Which number was that one? I also remember you coming back some time later after being discarded or more like ghosted if I recollect correctly. You seemed bitter and full of self contempt back then. Then I believe you recycled again and I lost interest because frankly I thought it was a sad state of affairs. I may be unfair and callous to your plight but it appears to me you aren't even trying. So, which number is this last one? Have you had enough or will you keep prolonging your pain?

Thanks, Infern0. I know this sucks, but I really appreciate you sharing your story on here. That could very well be me, but it won't because I've spent many, many hours on this site and now know my ex better than she knows herself. 

Through the suffering of others, I have been fortunate to receive the insight and strength to never fall for a recycle attempt.

I think its easy to point fingers and say you aren't trying but without being in the situation its not fair to judge

I think that is a fair comment Infern0, walk a mile in my shoes. Although you must appreciate how easy it is to become jaded by these relationships... .or even the stories of.

No one here should be judging anyone... .but I feel the short and sharp post by Mr Hollande also contains merit. You, yourself can see the unhealthy cycle. I think we all want you to try something different. It is very sad that your partner cannot be a true partner. It seems the only one she is true to is herself. This is not your fault.

The fourth one on your short timeline is a deal breaker for me. Once a partner has physically cheated. There is no unringing that bell. I can see why some people would persist, stuff happens, I have persisted myself in the past for all sorts of reasons but it only served to reinforce my belief that the relationship wasn't working.

Your part about you being blamed for your reaction to HER unhealthy actions is just plain ol' BPD behaviour. Sad.

And it has gotten old. I'm glad you feel less stressed now, and I hope it stays that way for you... .but wait for it.

Fair point Infern0. I have no right to point fingers, no one has, but at the same token I see you declare painful recycle/discard after painful recycle/discard time and time again. So putting my finger back where it belongs, do you believe you've had enough this time? Do you think you can resist another attempt from her? If not, do you have a plan for how to avoid being put in such a precarious situation again?

One of my best and oldest friends is an alcoholic and because he knows he can't resist the booze when he's on the road he has stopped touring with his band. It doesn't keep him from falling off the wagon from time to time but he has at least removed one major threat to his temperance from his life. My point is if there is something similar you could do with your ex to avoid recycling again?

Forgive me if this seems patronising. It's not meant that way.

The tricky thing is these recycles seem to creep up on me.

When in nc I tend to recover or make progress pretty quickly, I also realize that I made some mistakes myself. Generally I reach a place where I am OK and moving on.

Then she comes back and before you know it heading back down that road again and thinking "this time it'll be different"

The problem with me is both my strong codependency which I need therapy to sort out which I can't afford right now, and also that I'm just a forgiving person and don't want animosity.

With her we are either lovers or mortal enemies, with no inbetween

Oh yes, that one rings louder than the bells of Notre Dame. I believed that because I wanted it to be true. I wanted it so much I kept closing my eyes to the evidence from past failures and I paid dearly for it. It took a really nasty discard to slap me into conscience in the end. By your posts I'd say you have more evidence of failure than I had.

I will be very bold and say it'll never get better for you. At some point it will end and it'll be either you or her who ends it. If it's her then expect it to be cruel.


Instead of animosity, could you view her like junk food? While it's convenient you know it's a let down from past experience. The nutrition is poor and it'll give you bad guts. Keep eating it for long enough and it'll kill you.  


That one I identify with. I decided she'd be my mortal enemy. The decision was made easy by how she discarded me. For as painful as it was maybe I was lucky.

Inferno, I'm so happy to see your post! Not happy that you are in distress of course, but glad to be in your good company. I've also been in and out of things with my ex. Right now we are out but she keeps contacting me-- I think she wants our intimacy until she can find someone new and it is hard for me to resist that intimacy. Although the recycles have all ended super painfully, I do think I'm learning lessons I needed to learn (or beginning to learn/practice them), in particular these two:

1) codependency-- willing to let go of myself for the relationship, compromise my own projects/goals, etc

and related to the first 2) a willingness to be less than truthful to avoid her anger ("walking on eggshells". Ultimately, she broke up with me because of #2 and though it was too harsh (painting me black), she did have a point.

Right now, she wants to be friends with benefits. At times I think it is too painful, and at times I think we could practice being the selves we want to be with each other (me more truthful, her more gentle/constructive in her anger) without worry about breaking the relationship (since it is already broke).

What do you all think?

I for one don't believe in getting back with an ex for an "open relationship" thing. I am not discouraging it, it's just not for me. The problem with the BPD relationship is we enter some kind of addiction or trauma bond. I feel that could never be broken as long as contact and intimacy is involved. It would be much like a recovering addict taking just one more hit to see if it affects him. We are here because of what happened in our relationships and how they ended. Going back to her in any way would bring it all back up again. It may feel good in the moment but it would hurt all over again. Not to mention I never would go back to her. I don't know maybe it would work for others. 

I could never, ever do this. For all I would know, she could be telling another guy how much she loves him, and how she'll never cheat on him, etc. I would never, ever enable her cheating.

(And this is coming from someone that had been a FWB for an ex for a month after I dumped her, but that ex was not BPD, so she ended things immediately upon finding another guy.)

Adding to what Confused said, I believe that every time we go back/patch things up/recycle/try again, or whatever one chooses to call it, we give up a little more of ourselves. For every recycle there is less left of us.

It's strange how evident that was to me at what may have been my first recycle in 2012. She told me she was thinking of leaving me because she'd met this other guy who was allegedly more considerate while I had apparently been mostly cruel and cold. I told her to make a choice and fast. Me or him. She said I was the one she wanted but it was up to me to change my "cruel and cold ways" and I asked her that if I accepted this and just carried on with her, what would be left of me? What remains of a person who compromises their integrity to that degree? I think that while she was doing a good job at playing me my question also made it clear that I was not going to wait around all meek and puppy eyed so she made a quick decision to hang on to me. For the time being anyway.

But the important point is that I answered my own question by asking it. What remains of a person who compromises his value on himself like I did? The answer is less and the longer we carry on like that the more we diminish. I know that now but back then I still had some distance to travel before truly acknowledging it. Fascinating how it was right there in front of me and I didn't see it.

Does this ring any bells, Infern0?

It makes sense to a degree.

I will say though you sound like you went into things a lot more confident than me and had a healthy self esteem

My interaction with her started when I was at a real low and I had bad codependency.

The upshot for me is that I have learned... .Slowly through this whole process a lot about myself and as unbelievable as it sounds I am probably in a better place now than I was at the beginning. I have done a lot of self work and I'm acutely aware of my own issues and weaknesses which I wasn't before all this.

Don't get me wrong I've learned harsh lessons, but they have been lessons, I believe in the future I'd be better at relationships, but with "normal" people, not someone with BPD

You've gone NC so you have the control now. That's a good thing.

I've been reading and following this thread and I can relate to most of it. I,myself have had numerous recycles,hoping each time it could work out and we could live happily ever after as we all dreamed of. As has been stated each and every time we go back we seem to give a little more of ourselves away and bend over just that little bit more to make things work. Whether we go back once,twice or ten times we eventually reach the point where it sinks in that no matter what we do,what we say,or how we try to communicate it just doesn't work. Some people reach that point quicker than others and being honest I'm not sure I could resist should the opportunity arise. I will however point out in my experience in each recycle I've been through that the level of respect becomes less and less,both for myself and that given to me by my ex. When we are able to say no we don't accept this anymore and feel we are beginning to move on and get ourselves together they miraculously pop up out of nowhere and we throw a wobbly,when we can reach a point where they don't matter anymore we become more desirable to them,and then when we can say no we then take back our power

Mr Hollande, are you from Netherland?

Stay strong my friend!  I know it hurts so bad--- but you are doing the right thing whether it feels like it or not.

 it gets better, i promise 

Sometimes you have to keep going back to the cookie jar and eating cookies, until you can't eat anymore.

I hope for your sake you have had enough cookies.

had the first little twinges of temptation today

"just send a text to say you don't hate her and hope one day you can be friends again"

don't do it bro, don't do it

Silence is a source of great strength.

Lao Tzu

Oh lord i hope you didnt do it!

Make a list of 10 things you have to do before you text her.

My list:

Exercize for at lease an hour

Take a shower

Call a friend

Post here

Eat/drink something

Take a nap or go to bed (works every time)

Write in my journal

Call my therapist

Etc.

I have found that once i get thru most of those... .i no longer want to text him... .at least not so urgently. reading thru other people crazy posts helps. Also reminding myself of that emotion of being in the recycle and wanting out so badly has been very powerful.

Nc is so important to your recovery. I am the worst of the worst ... .i am one of those people who speaks their mind. So not being able to say what i want to say is very nerve wracking. But... .its the only way to get off the yo-yo. My life is so peaceful now.

If I can do it... .anyone can do it. I promise.

I find myself missing the affection and the great sex. That is it. However, I am still tempted to reach out. It has been over 2 weeks and I haven't but think of it often. This board has made me think of the aftermath of that event as well. So I have been able to remain NC.

I am in NC for more than a 120 days , she reached out to me out twice , I remained NC .

What works  for me now is the hope of finding someone I really like or perhaps she reaches out for one recycle ,we never recycled before .

If I initiate the call to reunite , i know what the rejection would cause me  (take me back to square one )

I AM not going back to hurt again .

For those who started NC or in the middle of it ,

It would do you no good contacting her , let her wonder and perhaps do the first move ,in the mean time work on regaining your control and self respect and keep going .

Every time we reach out there is loss of dignity and a huge risk of setting back the recovery process by months. Our feet are weapons in the war for our own survival. We must use them to walk in the opposite direction.

I agree... .we lose our dignity and self respect and it sets us back. Until we say no more and eventually begin to heal that's when they usually pop right back up

Eheh, this is SO true... .

What a great list-- thank you Cloudten!

Experience is a difficult teacher. First she gives you the tests. Afterwards the lessons. Sometimes we just have to go through the experience more than once. A pwBPD can teach you with where you need work to have healthier relationships. If that is your frame of thought Infern0, you're heading the right direction.

Yeah absolutely. I need to learn to make relationships one part of my life and not the be all and end all

I need to take better care of myself and have self respect

I need to do a lot of different things.

For certain she has issues, but so do I and the combination doesn't fit together

Relationships are important because what we put out is reflected back at us and we can get feedback with how we act. I think connecting with people and relationships can be in all parts of your life with family, friends, romantic partners. She has issues but I think that many people have emotional baggage going into the relationship. You might be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't have emotional baggage.


What can you learn here?

Specifically why does she reach out? Why do you rekindle?

Let's have everyone chip in and help.

This is profoundly insightful.  I've realized the same thing.  Sometimes two people can love one another and just not be able to make it work.  Sometimes love isn't enough.  I don't know why.  Life's just very imperfect like that.

Who knows? Could be any number of reasons.

She needs something?

She's bored?

I start to physically improve so she becomes attracted again?

Triggers stop flaring and time heals?

She actually does want to try?

She does miss me?

Its all a sick game to her?

I think the only person who really knows is her, and maybe not even her

That's right.

Now the next step is to shift the focus back to you.

... .can't get to the third point without it.

You are right that it's hard to speculate and that she might not even know. A pwBPD may not be aware that they want rescue from a family member, a romantic partner or a non-disordered person. You are her savior, how is that going? A lesson that can be learned from this that you can take with you is don't rescue.

Where I'd the line between rescue and simply being kind?

Boundaries. Boundaries protect you and take care of you. It is self compassion and self love. You can have compassion for her with boundaries. You're currently in no contact. Don't be friends for now because it will keep an emotional attachment and it will take longer for your wounds to heal. You can be kind but you need to self protect and take care of yourself first.

I have boundaries with my ex wife. I am kind to her because I understand that she like many people have personal battles that they face.

*mod*

I split off the discussion about how we should treat each other.  It is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286464.0

Let's talk about it.

Inferno,

I think you need to stop blaming these troubles on her. It's not really her any more.  

She is who she is. How she acts and treats you is consistent and repetitive. For you to be happy, she has to be someone else.

The same is true on your end. She's not completely happy with you. Neither of you are willing to make the change that the other is seeking. Its just not a good match.

This is a prototypical "too good to leave, too bad to stay" relationship.

Going back is not working for you. Going no-contact is not working for you.

Can you think of something different?

Well for right now I will remain nc. I have no problem holding to it on my end but if\when she contacts me... .I don't know

I realize I need to change myself for the better. And that is my goal now.

As for all or nothing relationship with her I don't know.

I do think our relationship could be improved somewhat if I was happy with myself, more confident, worried less etc.

I don't know skip what advice do you have?

I think you have to face the facts that she does not want to be in a committed relationship with you - date you, yes - commit to you, no.

You keep trying to change who she is, which is probably making matters worse, engulfing her, being clingy. I hate that word (clingy) but it gets the point across - no man wants to be that.

Why are you "no contact" right now? To show her you don't approve? She knows that if she calls you, today, next week, a month, you'll will be right back. She owns you. She knows it. No man wants to hear that either. These are harsh realities.

If you change who you are, effect better boundaries, she might actually might not be interested at all. More hard reality.

This is some work from our editorial group that appears on Wikipedia:

Risks of reestablishing values and boundaries

In Families and How to Survive Them, Robin Skinner MD explains methods for how family therapists can effectively help family members to develop clearer values and boundaries by when treating them, drawing lines, and treating different generations in different compartment[17] – something especially pertinent in families where unhealthy enmeshment overrides normal personal values.[18] However, the establishment of personal values and boundaries in such instances may produce a negative fall-out,[18] if the pathological state of enmeshment had been a central attraction or element of the relationship.[19] This is especially true if the establishment of healthy boundaries results in unilateral limit setting which did not occur previously. It is important to distinguish between unilateral limits and collaborative solutions in these settings.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setting_boundaries#Risks_of_reestablishing_values_and_boundaries

Can you accept her for who she is?

Can you find a place for yourself in this relationship that you are proud of?

I'm not being critical of you. You love her. That's and innocent and honest emotion.

But it has become corrupted between the two you.  It's not all her. You are a equal part of it too. You have to unravel this.

I think the first step is to stop telling yourself that you are no contact. You're not, really. You're just mad and withdrawing. When the extinction is over, you will tee up for another recycle. You have to start being more honest with yourself.

We have a new board - saving a relationship in crisis - do you want to post there?

Inferno, we're family, we're all pulling for you.

Look skip i hear exactly what you are saying, and yes I do admit to being clingy, due mostly to worry that she is going to repeat past things she's done which hurt me.

As for if i'm no contact etc, i don't know depends on the definition of it.

I'm using this time to improve myself so that I have options, if i can be in a better place if/when she comes back maybe i can make a better decision about any potential future

If any relationship is going to work there needs to be respect, do you understand that?

i'm never going to go down as a cuckolded husband, and if i stayed around and didn't establish some "dominance" for want of a better word, that's what would happen

I can accept her for who she is, as long as she doesn't cheat if we get together as a couple again

Sure. Do you respect her?  :)oes she respect you?


Were you in a committed relationship with her when she was with this last guy. If she sleeps with someone while you are currently "broken up/no contact" is that cheating?

I'm not giving you are hard time, I'm just asking the hard questions, trying to get you to see this as an outsider (your inner critic if yo will).  

I think it would help to inventory what the reality of what a relationship is for you. And then what a relationship for you.

No we were not together when she got with the last guy

and no i dont consider it cheating if she does that stuff when we are broken up

i don't like that it happens, but cheating is only when in a commited, defined relationship imo

The only possible way this relationship could even potentially work, Infern0, is for you to be able to accept her as she is.  You will have to stop fixing.  You will have to stop hoping she will be someone else.  You have to even accept that she may never be able to overcome her disorder.  She is not her disorder, but her disorder is part of her.  You can't have one without the other.  Time isn't going to resolve this.  Working on yourself isn't going to change who she is.  This is hard to hear.  I understand.  These are very hard relationships.  In my opinion this is the only real question that matters at this point when considering if you can continue to attempt a relationship with her.

Edit:  I say this from personal experience.  I can say with certainty that my inability to be able to just accept my ex as she was more than anything ruined the relationship.  I kept trying to fix her, and you can't do that.  That's not loving.  We can support, but we can't fix.  She tried many, many times to tell me this and I was just too thick headed to hear it.  You have to just be cool with it, man.

Yes people keep saying this

So what you are saying is I have a choice to accept that she's going to cheat on me and just let it happen or cut her out of my life completely?

There's no hope of her being honest and remaining faithful

Yes, sadly it's a possibility that she may continue to cheat.  I know that's hard to hear, but you can't fix her.  Only she can do that.  That doesn't mean you have to tolerate the cheating, however.  Not at all.

I don't think it has to be black or white.  I think it's possible to have a shade of gray, but you will have to first figure out what you want.  Everything will flow from that.

Well, given all the knowledge you have, as far as I can see you have three choices:

1) You keep wanting a relationship with her; you have to accept all her defects, at least until she doesn't enter therapy. This will be, most likely, an "emotional Vietnam".

2) You try for a friendship: we know this is risky due to boundary busting from BPDs side; moreover, if you keep having sex with her, you will continue to mess with your emotional stability as well.

3) You go full NC; very, VERY hard to do in the short term, but in the long run it greatly pays off, since it gives you clarity, detachment and emotional stability. Moreover, it will allow you to move on with your life and towards more sane relationships from an emotional point of view.

We cannot blame you, since we were probably all tempted by options 1 and 2.

However, keepi in mind that you cannot save her, nor you cannot force her to be someone she can't be... .

In fairness to her, the "cheating" that brought us to this no contact was not cheating at all - you were broken up at the time - let's say this accurately.

I know this doesn't lessen the hurt, and I know it would hurt me, but when we are "no contact" or broken up, the other party is free to engage in other adult relationships. I say this because, it will help to stay a close to reality as possible. You are broken up now - your call - know what that means.


If I may, I'd rephrase this to read:

So what you are saying is I have a choice to accept that she doesn't want to commit to Inferno's idea of her role in the relationship and I need to either find a balance where she can be herself and you can be comfortable or you can endlessly spar with make-up / break - up cycles, or you can call it a mismatch, and seek a different partner?

We all understand how hurtful it is that she slept with someone else when you were broken up. I can also empathize with her not wanting (or feeling she needed) to tell you about it.

Inferno, if you want to get on another path, you have to speak honestly with yourself and you are not doing that. Look, you started this thread with the title "Failed recycle, into day 5 nc" and at the same time, in post #23 you say you get upset at possible suggestions of real "no contact" "So what you are saying is I have a choice to accept that she's going to cheat on me and just let it happen or cut her out of my life completely? There's no hope of her being honest and remaining faithful"


Get on the same page with yourself.  

1. She did not cheat. She dated when you broke up.

2. You are hurt, and dealing with that by starting silent treatment to express your disapproval

3. She tried to reach out and you rejected her

4. You have just created another "faux break-up" and situation where she may reach out to others - its tends to be how she responds to this.

5. You are not no contact  - you are awaiting her call, and if she doesn't, you will call her

6. You are not working on your clingy-ness (or on Saving or Staying or Personal Inventory), you are on Leaving and struggling with people telling you to Leave.

You have to be strong to be in a relationship with a person who is inherently weak.  You have to be big in a relationship with a person who is inherently small. You have to be consistent in a relationship with a person who needs structure. You have to have good coping skills with a person with weal coping skills. And lastly, you have to accept people for who they are and how much they they are willing to love you, share with you, commit to you - you can't force them to do it on your terms.

We all know this because we all did it to some level or another... .so its not a criticism. And clearly, she has her own issues.

You have to face the facts. Its the first step to getting on a better pathway.

Inferno, I think we all have fallen into the ' maybe this time will be different' trap. I know I have and we become as sick as they are. But, my friend, we want you to live a long healthy life. If she has had multiple partners you are at great risk for deadly diseases. Bpd behavior is one thing but unprotected sex is quite another. Mine strayed his first time ( I hope to god) and he admitted to using no protection the hiv antibodies can lay dormant for 6 months... Please view it in this light, I want to see you more on this forum.