BPDFamily.com

Hi all.

This is my absolute first time ever posting on any forum, though I've been a silent stalker of many for years (most recently this one, which I've been frequenting all too often the last few weeks).

Bare with me on this story - I'm trying to find some clarity and hoping you guys/gals can help.

From here on out, the ex will be referred to as K.  K and I dated from mid Sept 2014 until our initial breakup in late Sept 2015, with reconciliation multiple times until early Nov 2015 - about 14 months in total.

Background:

To start, I met my ex BPD GF on Tinder.  We both live in NYC.  At the time, I had been two years removed from a long, not so bad but also not so amazing long distance relationship that had petered out.  She had been living in NYC for almost two years, where she'd moved just after breaking up with her ex, getting into the fashion industry.  She had been casually dating (note - now I realize basically juggling) three different dudes at the same time, including one 45 year old man with a kid (we were 26 and 25 respectively, at the time).

I come from a family of divorce (when I was 8) with an extremely loving and caring mother, and a very successful, emotionally stern/abusive father, who often made me feel as though I was not good enough for him.  A bit more background about me - I work in the music industry in NYC and am very involved in the arts within NYC - I sit on multiple young donor boards for big NPOs and live a very active lifestyle.  I also enjoy craft beer thoroughly.  I'm an attractive guy, but tend to come on strong to women.

She comes from a family with a successful, quiet, loving father and a constantly relapsing alcoholic mother who attempted suicide multiple times during K's childhood (age 8 and up - before then they lived in the Middle East), with K walking in and finding her mother attempting to kill herself once when she was about 10.  K's mother had been sober for the majority of our 14 months, but has recently succumbed to her alcoholism again.

After we met once, we quickly fell in love, or so I thought - within the first 3 weeks we were both saying I love you and shocked at how quickly it felt comfortable.  We went on many dates, and within the first few weeks she was staying over 1-2 times a week.  Still, she seemed to NEED to spend long amounts of time with her friends, who enjoyed drinking heavily on the weekends.  This included skipping a concert with me in Central Park after about two weeks dating, to see a band I loved, so she could watch a football game at a bar with her friends and get drunk.

Friends of mine noted how strange it was that she needed her group of friends so badly so quickly, but I wrote it off thinking maybe I would integrate them into my group (I am very friendly and tend to integrate groups fast).

As the relationship went on, K and I spent a ton of time together, with a lot of bickering about me wanting her to stay over at my apartment/skip things with her friends, and her wanting me to stay at her apartment (she didn't have a bedroom and slept in a half-walled area in a living room with two other girls) or wanting to be with her friends out late.

It was then that I begun to inquire about K's past.  Major points: up until we started dating, literally the weekend before, K would stay out until 4AM drinking with her group of friends (all young professionals, I should add, and all from her home state of Texas).  She juggled multiple guys at the same time (a drugged up dude, a 45 year old, and a "pretty boy" and even the Friday after we met, but were not dating exclusively, showed up at the pretty boy's house at 4AM, had unprotected sex, and left, all blackout drunk.  Unprotected sex happened about 50% of the time with these guys, none of whom she was dating exclusively.  Before she had moved to NYC, she was dating a man in Houston with whom she, at the end of the relationship, often did cocaine with, usually on the weekends, every weekend for about 10 straight weeks.  She had been a casual user for about 3 years up until then.  She was also a smoker.

I'm a pretty clean cut guy - I've never done a drug or smoked anything in my life, and drink because I love the taste of craft beer.  Needless to say this was a lot for me to comprehend.  Furthermore, anytime I would inquire about ANY of her past - the guys, the drinking, the cocaine - she'd tell me that she did it because she felt like it/was biding time, and that I needed to let go of her past.  I would often bring up her past in the future.

Time wore on and she calmed down quite a bit - our two first major MAJOR fights were big - she had lost her job due to her company shutting down on the day of a major meeting/date/dinner I had planned between my client and his GF and myself and my GF.  She cancelled and said she couldn't bare the agony of being out with people, pretending to be nice.  I asked her to stop by my office so I could console her, but she rebuffed.  I started a fight with her because I wanted her badly to come to this meeting, that had a lot of money riding on it, but she said she absolutely would not.  She ended up going out with her roommate and drinking 4+ glasses of wine.  Furious at me, she told me to leave her alone.  I instead went to her apartment (a good 8 miles away) and begged her to forgive me.

The second major fight was NYE 2014.  She had decided to go home to Houston while I remained in NYC (I had special access to Times Square so we could be in a private area, in doors, until 5 minutes before the ball dropped.  She said she didn't want to and, when I said I was going, said she was going to go home).  She had told me she was going to stay in with her parents, but ended up at a HUGE party with her closest friends, whom she calls her soulmates.  I tried to call her at 1AM NYC time (midnight her time) but she didn't return my call until 20+ minutes later.  I was very hurt, and told her she had to decide how serious she was, or I would break up.  She called me, finally sober, the next day, crying and saying she didn't want to break up.

Fast forward to Feb - she's at my apt (still fighting to get her to stay over!) and asks if we have plans Weds.  I say no.  She says she's making plans with "the girls" from her old job.  I asked if the 45 year old ex, with whom she worked, will be there.  She says maybe.  After a bit more prying I find out that the plans were, in fact, with him, and she had "planned" on inviting the girls too.  I asked her to delete his number (saved under a different name - an inside joke) on the spot.

Again, fast forward, she's on a trip to Europe with her girlfriends.  I was hurt that she didn't wait to go with me to Europe (I could not afford at the time) but she refused to wait.  I pretty much ruined that trip.  Calling constantly, accusing her of everything under the sun.  Crying, making her feel bad.  this is one of my biggest regrets.  When she returned, I had to beg her to stay with me rather than go home to her apt.  I had another huge "do you want this relationship?" conversation and she said yes.

After that, things sailed well, with a few bumps.  I was pretty mean when her mom came to visit - another big regret, and she and I moved in together in May 2015.

After that, we begun to fight a LOT.  Explosive, huge fights, shouting, mean words.  I honestly can't even remember what the fights were about - probably her wanting to go out with her friends.

After we moved in, she would constantly go out not for a few drinks, but for 5+ hours with friends. This started maybe once or twice a month, but ended up being more frequent at the end.  I was NEVER invited to these outings.

Finally, in Sept, we went to my friend's wedding, and when we returned, my uncle, who was very much  like a father to me, slipped into a coma.  He died a week later, and she and I travelled to Ohio to be with my family.  She was very kind and loving to me, though my mother noted she seemed distant.  The moment we left my mother's, it was back to fighting.

Four days later, she kept picking on me/snapping at me.  In a text, a few minutes after I left her when we got off the subway, she said she couldn't date me any longer.

I was destroyed.  She went to live with her friend and her friend's mom in NJ.  I stayed at the APT.  I convinced her to move back in, and the following week she went to visit family in Houston. We fought again, and she broke up.

Finally, I convinced her after a few days again to move back in.  A day after she moved back in she told me she had planned a trip with her girlfriends from Houston and her to Rhode Island for her birthday.  I was not invited and she was not budging. PERIOD.

After that, it was much of this same attitude.  "I am doing XYZ tonight, you're not invited, don't ask when I'll get home.  Period".  She took a day trip to pick apples that ended up being 12+ hours.  She went to dinner with a friend in town, and ended up coming home WASTED at 3AM.  

On Nov 3rd, 6 days before my birthday, she dumped me and left.  We've had sex a few times since, but that's it.

After the second breakup, I decided to pursue therapy because I knew I did have control and dependency issues.  It was at this time that my therapist, who knew all the stories, suggested that K had BPD.  The more I read, the more it sounded true.

I used this knowledge to approach K saying I couldn't date her, but wanted to be her friend.  She ended up staying over last Friday.  The next Tuesday (last week) she sent me the below email.  We have not spoken since, and she has slowly moved her stuff out.  She has blocked my number and most of my emails, and I suspect she's started seeing the 45 year old, who she started talking to a few weeks ago to gain some "insight" into her previous relationships.  He, like me, pointed out that she was often very tough to get close to, and ran.


"M,

This is my final word regarding our relationship, in any form.

I am not running away, as you like to tell me I'm doing- which is just another form of manipulation, which you are so good at. I am not taking an easy route by breaking up with you or because I'm confused. I am leaving you because I can't stand to be involved with this relationship or you any longer. I never should have let it get this far. I absolutely should not have talked to you after that Tuesday, because it's hard for me not to give in to what you say and ask of me. That was where the back and forth fell into place. I knew while I was talking to you (or you telling me how I feel or think based on your own opinion) or hanging out with you that it was wrong and the absolute worst thing I could do for myself. I had strong anxiety about it because I knew I was being stupid, and that pushed even more insecurities and wrong reactions out of me. It was hard for me not to give in out of guilt and dangling hope for what was once a nice relationship. Now I realize even more that I need to get out permanently and remove you from my life.

Don't fight this or try to manipulate me again. Shame on me for ever listening to you. Also know that I have blocked your number. You can reach me by e-mail if you have anything else to say.

I will let you know when I can move my things out of the apartment in the next couple of weeks and we can discuss by email what we can do to with the apartment. I will pay my part for December, but I need you to start planning to cover rent, or I will talk to the building about having someone take over our lease. Obviously we both want to avoid ruining our credit, so we can figure out the best option.

-K"

In addition, she claims she's seeking therapy, but always seems to have an excuse.  We tried couples therapy, at my behest, once, and she seemed to enjoy it.  But two days later said she couldn't.


Please help me make sense of this.  How much of this is me?  How much is her?  Is this behavior typical?  

Most BPD stories are much more dramatic.  K never hit me, just a lot of yelling.  She accused me of infidelity because i begun online dating after the second dump, but I explained (truthfully) I had no real desire to date - just that I felt insecure.

Projection?  

Please help!

Wow---- I feel for you with the turbulent relationship 

You certainly had a lot of red flags going on with her.  The most disturbing to me is the lack of invites out with people... .big time red flags to me. It wasn't like a girls weekend once or twice a year- it was constant.  The times my BPDx did that to me- he had a whole, actual, real live girlfriend that I didn't know about- which is why I wasn't allowed around his friends- because they knew.

I don't know enough from your story, though, to say she sure sounds like a pwBPD.

What other symptoms would you say she has from DSM to consider her BPD? Self-harm? Suicidal? Empty inside? It sounds like you can check "turbulent relationships" off the list. It certainly sounds like her mother had serious issues... .so could some of her behavior be a result of that? Possibly.

Sounds like you took her to do (or tried to take her to) lots of interesting things that any decent girlfriend would have jumped at the opportunity to do.

Her last communication to you does sound pretty full of projections... .but in a way- I hear myself in my own letter to my pwBPD (I am a non, however a daughter of a narcissist- which I am figuring out is the root of my own issues and why I kept going back to my xbf. If I may say so, your dad sounds rather narcissistic himself). 

I hope you are able to maintain NC while you sort yourself out and heal. 

I know it doesn't feel like it- but you probably dodged a bullet.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

Thanks for the reply, Cloudten!

No self harm or suicide, but she did constantly tell me that she had lost who she was in the relationship, and that she felt like she didn't know herself anymore.

I also noticed EXTREME disassociation at times.  We would be sitting on the couch and she would suddenly zone out big time.  I'd ask her what was up/wave my hand in front of her face, and she would shake her head out of it after a few seconds.  I, at the time, assumed she was thinking about her Houston friends.

In the beginning she DID invite me out, but her friends completely rejected me because I wasn't a huge partier.  Her group of friends was also 10-15 people, all from Texas, and not the easiest for me to break into.  Every time I would invite one or two of her friends out, they would say no.  It was all or nothing.  I did try, though, to befriend them all.

A really great example of her mindset was around last Christmas - I had tickets to see a famous choral choir sing christmas hymns at a famous church in NYC.  A BIG client of mine was in the choir.  It was a Friday night from 7-8:30.  She refused to come because it was her roommate's birthday and she "had made plans [she] wasn't going to break."  I pointed out that we would be done WELL before any real partying started, and that I would go to the bday with her, but she told me she had to pregame at their apartment. So I ended up taking my intern, while my girlfriend pre-gamed.

After the show, I called her and she was still at her apartment.  It was pouring out, but I told her I'd walk slowly to the bar to meet them.  5 blocks away, they still hadn't left.  So I went home.

Her 27 year old roommate ended up puking in the bar bathroom so much that the bar threw her out at 2AM.  K took the subway home, WASTED.

The next morning we had another "is this relationship really what you want?" convo, she said yes, and we went to a brunch with other friends of hers.  I asked if we could go home after instead of continuing to drink, and it took me begging for her to agree.

The more I think about this, the more I realize how insane it was that I put up with it so long.

I am, however, afraid that I'm ignoring MY OWN part in this.  I see what I did wrong in many ways, and am working on my control/insecurity issues.  But I don't want to place all the blame on her if some of it is my fault.

Well--- I really can't speak to the BPD or not... .but it almost doesn't matter, does it?

What I mean is- it doesn't sound like you two were compatible on a very fundamental level. You had very different lifestyle preferences.  Franky- I'd kill to have a guy who WANTS to do those things (I'm a classical musician... .so I make that an important part of who I [were to] choose). But it sounds like she is still young and dumb. She still wants to live the party life. I think most girls, in these times, are pretty immature until they are at least 28. lol

The question really is- "Is that relationship really what YOU want?"

It might be a case of "she's not that into you." It doesn't sound like your emotional needs were being met. 

Okay- so after all of that being said... .what I do think is really important here is the questions you are asking about yourself... .Take BPD out of the equation. You can't change that mess. You can't change her and if you sit here thinking you can go back and change it, you will be stuck in your recovery. You cannot change it. You CAN change YOU... .if you want to.

Yes, we all make a lot of mistakes in these relationships. I made A LOT before I knew about BPD... .and afterward I made even MORE. lol queen of mistakes over here. I did just about all of them.

Give yourself some credit, because I can see the gears turning in your head... .you are not ignoring your own part in this. You are actually engaged in figuring out why you stayed, what went wrong, and how you can be a better/healed person in the future.

When you can figure out why you stayed... .when you can figure out what is "broken" in you and fix it... .you will be well on your way to never repeating this disaster again.

Keep up the good work!

PS- online dating and social media, IMO, are chalk full of people with personality disorders.

Sidenote* when my dBPDx dissociated, he seemed to be fully aware/awake/coherent. We would have whole conversations and arguments and rages, and he wouldn't remember them later... .at all.  It could be as simple as ordering a sandwich to threatening to stab me in the face. There was plenty he didn't remember when he seemed as if he should have remembered.

It's interesting - I actually read an article about how much of the emotion behind people who pursue a relationship with a known BPD is based around the fact that they never got the approval of a parent and so are seeking to try and gain acceptance from another person who will never accept them.  This really did awaken some horrible memories of my father.  My therapist also saw the connection between K and my dad.

K contacted me today about the apartment and we spoke for a while via gchat.  I really need her to pay her portion of the rent, at least for a while, and I am currently sleeping on her mattress and bed frame, as she made me throw mine out when we moved in.

I finally had the courage to unfollow her on Instagram - her and her friends' accounts are all private, so I will not see anything she does from now on. She does not have Facebook, and I am unfollowing her on snapchat.

All of these is extremely painful.  Returning home to see her things packed up hurts. 

Logically I know I should not want this person - that she's more content sleeping around, not using protection, drinking heavily, and taking for granted all the nice things I tried to incorporate her into within my life. 

And yet I can't stop crying when I'm home, and the thought of having to continue with this amount of pain is nearly unbearable.

I am seeing my psychiatrist tonight (not my therapist) and have considered asking for medication.  What are the thoughts here?  He's a little more disconnected from the whole situation, but has been medicating my ADD since 1997 or 1998.

I am running a major event tomorrow, and I know I will be a mess.  I can't focus at work, I can't eat, I haven't slept in days without having nightmarish dreams about what K is doing.

Help!

Malfii- nothing wrong with meds if they help you.  Before my uBPDexw left last year I rarely had to take anything, but once she left I lost 15 pounds in six weeks and I wasn't sleeping.  A light anti-depressant/sleep aid helped me to sleep at night and to regain some of my appetite.  I still have to take it, but at least I can sleep now and I no longer have night terrors/anxiety attacks.  I hope I can ween myself off soon, but for now it is a lifesaver.  I take the generic of Remeron.

Sorry you are having such a rough time.  It will be good to see a psychiatrist.  I think most of them undestand BPD far more than most therapists.  At least you will have someone to talk to that understands your situation.

i still have a long road to recovery, but besides therapy and my medication, I find that physical exhaustion helps me to sleep and to reduce my anxiety.  I would suggest joining a gym to help wear you out.  Also, having a second job, preferably one that is physical (i.e. retail), might wear you out too.  I don't need the money from a second job, but dead hours are when I struggle.  I try to keep myself as busy as possible.

Good luck. 

Thank you,  ABQ - I'm going to request a sleep aid.  I was thinking of joining a gym - it would probably help with my self-esteem too.  I'm in good shape, but not muscular.  I bike a ton, although it's about to be too cold to do so.

I have another question - I get extremely depressed with I think about the sex.  We had the most incredible sexual chemistry - our kisses we perfect, the sex was deep and loving, and all accompanying (TMI here, sorry.  We're all adults) smells, tastes, etc. were perfect.  I had never experienced anything like that in my life.  She would, according to her, orgasm nearly every time.

It's been so hard to think about losing that from my life.  I know that sounds shallow and superficial, but I felt a DEEP connection with her when we were doing it, which was nearly daily.  How can she not miss that, too?

I'm terrified at the prospect of having to date and experiment with other people.  Though I've had a my fair share of partners (way, way more than I'd prefer to have been with) I always loved the idea of monogamy.

I realize this is still very early for me in the stages of the breakup, but separating how much I miss the sex and intimacy associated with it, plus how strong the chemistry was, and thinking about a future without that and with someone where those things might not be as strong, scared the crap out of me.

I am a cyclist too.  I think the membership at the gym will be good for you.  The gym is great place to meet new people who share a similar interest with you.  Maybe you will meet a fellow cyclist there?  Plus, the added muscle will help you dominate KOM on Strava  :)

My pwBPD was very intimate as well.  Not necessarily in the same way you describe, but she was very needy emotionally and physically.  When we were together she often showed a LOT of PDA when we would go out, especially in front of her family.  At times it seemed like we were a teenage couple that just started dating.  I went along with the PDA because any time that I did not, I was chastised and she would question my love for her.  For example, if we were watching tv, she would want me on the couch next to her.  Most of the time I would comply because I wanted to, but if I was tired and just needed my own space, that was an unacceptable answer to her.  I would be in the doghouse the rest of the night.

My guess is that your ex does miss that connection a LOT.  Lots of posters here talk about shame and I believe my ex has a lot of it for how she handled the divorce and it's possible your ex has shame for her role in your relationship.  My ex blames me for the divorce, but I believe she is projecting.  I want the best for her, but I don't think she will ever get better without therapy. 

If you are scared at the prospect of dating right now, just take a break from it for awhile.  Nobody says you have to date right away, even if she is.  I have only gone out with two women since my divorce this year and after the dates I could tell I wasn't ready.  I know there is a good part of me that still hopes for reconcillation with my ex.  Until I no longer feel that way, it will be difficult for me to give my full attention to another woman.  I know I am a good person who will one day find a smart, attractive, and mentally healthy woman.  You will too.

Haha, i cycle too. Its a great way to get the stress out. I have been considering boxing.

Trying to make this short. Medication helped me for a month to refocus again. I took it until the physical affects were so great i couldn't stand it anymore. I have been off of it for 3 months and my head still hurts. But- the things it did for me emotionally... .improving my mood and especially my sleep and focus helped so much and have carried over. I needed it to just get out of my funk. Its not for everyone but i certainly wouldn't dismiss it, especially if you are having a hard time focusing at work. All you have right now is work to keep you going... .so don't neglect it. You don'twant to be unemployed too.

On the sex... .my sex life was much as you describe. I know i'll never find someone else just so d*mn perfect for me. It was mind blowing... .even 3 years later. *sigh*

2 things have helped to curb me on this though.

I stopped idealizing it so much when reading about people who were in these relationships much longer than me... .who were cut off cold. Now, before my BPDx, i was married to a narcissistic non... .and let me tell you there is absolutely nothing more miserable than being trapped in a loveless, sexless marriage. I have never been so lonely in my life. So when i started to read about those people who were 10 years with a BPD without sex... .cut off cold... .it made me realize i just simply cannot have that risk in my life. I would rather be alone than trapped and cut off cold as sex is a very important part of what i need.

Secondly, someone on here said somethimg that made a lot of sense to me... .and made me sort of rethink what made the sex good: they were mirroring.  Maybe it is an excuse... .but maybe it is the truth. The big reason s/he were amazing was because they mirrored your passion, enthusiasm, love, excitement, etc... .add that to good looks and being in love with them and you have a cocktail for great sex.

Honestly... .i know it is the part i mourn the most... .but i know that it will be even better when i find just the right person who is capable of mutual respectand love.

She cheated on most likely, and knew she didn't love you, but who would pass up a great guy.  You sound like a great catch.  So she used you and had her fun.  You offered her love, her actions are honestly saying thanks, but no thanks.  Let it go. 

K has been emailing me about the apartment situation since  yesterday.  I did a good job of instilling the boundaries (she had to pay for Jan and Feb for sure, after that it's up in the air).  She pushed that it was still her apartment, with all of her things there.  I said she could stay, because I (genuinely) could not afford the rent.  Her response was that she would stay sometimes.  That was last night.

I emailed her back saying that was fine, but we had to hold to boundaries of privacy and space, meaning she couldn't just barge in whenever she wanted (which would be uncomfortable for me.  I'm not dating, but I still don't want to constantly be wondering if/when she's coming).

She responded that she would not come this month, other than the 10 days I'll be out of town for the holidays.

That's real resolution, and it makes me incredibly sad.  I was sort of terrified at the prospect of having to share the house, and had deep anxiety about it last night.  But this resolution also scares me, because it's a sign of the end.

Again, logically I KNOW it has to be over.  She isn't healthy, regardless of whether or not she has BPD.  And, in truth, I dislike a lot of the things I did to her and can see the error of my ways.  I'd like to have some time to really work on myself.

But emotionally, the prospect of losing her is so fresh.  Which, I guess, is the reason I started this thread - to find some sense in this.  Her emails last night and this morning weren't cold, per se - they were very well written and reasoned, which actually made me miss her more, because, even though I think she's very emotionally stunted and simple, she can, at times, prove to be very smart and well spoken.

Sleeping at the apartment for the first time since Nov 18th was tough.  She's taken a lot of her things down/put them away.  It's been a slow process, since she's sleeping on couches.  For some reason she wont just pile her things into her closet so I can have out of sight/out of mind clarity.  Is that an attempt to keep one foot in the door, or just a sign of laziness and/or her own personal pain over the end of the relationship?

I'm not responding to her email from this morning - I think going full NC is certainly the correct move right now.  It pains me to write that, but I suppose after the new year, she and I can make a plan for January.  I'm simply terrified this is really the end, despite the fact that I logically want it to be.

Does me not replying send the message that I'm angry that she's not staying?  Because I genuinely do not feel that way, and do not want to convey mixed messages.  I want her to know I am resolved to move on, too.

Another question - how do those who remain in the apartment/house contend with the rumination of the lost potential within the dwelling?  Meaning, how do you cope with the idea of what could've been.  I find myself feel immense sadness thinking about when we moved in, just 6 months ago, and how much lost potential there is.  The good memories flood back, and always seem to override the bad ones (which there were a ton of - I mean, 2 months ago we were literally screaming on a subway platform at 1AM on a Thursday.  We ended up screaming on the sidewalk on a 30 block walk home).

Sorry for the frantic posts - I'm just trying to find some solace, which seems totally unattainable.

I feel for you man.  I also have the same trouble ... .letting go of the lost potential ... convincing myself that it is really over.   It has been extremely difficult for me to let go of my ex, not really sure why.  I am in a constant state of conflicting emotions, anger and sadness being the predominant conflict. 

I want to see her for who she really is but I can't help but believe somewhere inside of that stranger that is now my ex resides that person whom I fell so deeply and completely in love with.  I want to believe she didn't have an affair or move on so quickly.  I want to believe she still loves me and there is a chance that our love can be resurrected from the ashes.

Unfortunately I don't think any of those are true.  I have been deleted and by all appearances forgotten and it has been exceeding difficult to accept.

I believe NC will send the message that you are resolved to move on.  I will say though it appears that perhaps you need NC more to convince yourself that you are done rather than her.

Thanks for the reply C.Stein -

She hasn't deleted me from her life, but has blocked my number and unfollowed me on instagram and snapchat.  I unfollowed her from instagram (and her account is blocked, so I can't even stalk, which is good) and deleted snapchat, so most of that temptation is gone.

NC is definitely for me, not her.  I, frankly, don't really care how her emotional state is, other than that, emotionally for me, I want her to want me.  It's such a confusing, conflicting emotional mess. 

The hardest part about all of this is I can see distinct moments where I truly was WRONG.  I don't mean subjectively wrong - I mean objectively, absolutely, wrong.  In seeing that, I can see where maybe I pushed things.  It's hard to reconcile, for sure.

I can't enjoy anything in my life right now, and it's really having a toll on my mental and emotional state.  How do I get through this?

I'm in a similar situation.  Lived together seven months. Dated a year and a half. I did things I shouldn't have. Said things too in anger. I don't know if she is BPD or not. But at least very emotionally insecure and such. But I love her.  I am trying to maintain contact. She said it's ok as long as it's light.  I don't know if I can do that so i am trying as of today to go no contact.  It sucks. 

Scop -

I have been trying to go NC and she basically wont let me, since most of her things are still at our apartment.  She keeps telling me that, since the bed is hers (she made me throw mine our when we moved in together) I should not have "guests" sleeping in it with me.  I reply that, when she's staying at the apartment, I expect the same respect.

It's confusing and hurtful and disheartening but also hopeful all at the same time.  I hate this.  Always a game.

You and I are riding in the same boat.  Eventually you will find a way to accept and let go.  I also have regrets and a lot of guilt and remorse.   Knowing there were points in the last 6 months of my relationship where I should have turned left instead of right ... .or I should have said something vs. not saying anything or saying something in anger that I shouldn't have.  I could have handled my particular situation better ... .I know that, but the knowledge of BPD and how I might do that came too late (post discard).  

My problem is I am unsure even if I had done things different if it would have made a difference.  

The whirlwind of emotions and rumination will die down to a level where it will be more manageable.  I'm not saying it will entirely go away, that takes time, but you will likely find yourself ruminating and feeling specific things rather than the gut wrenching storm that you are probably feeling now.  

In the end you may never be able to logically explain anything and that is something both you and I will need to accept.  Work towards acceptance right now and once you are there then you can find the strength to examine your own role and mistakes you made so that you can take something positive from this experience and grow.

I prefer to think that anything I could have done differently wouldn't have made a lick of difference. After I found out about BPD and worked really hard to respond differently to him, things really only got worse. He got worse. Believing you have the ability to go back and change something or be different will get you stuck. You have to accept the r/s for what it was... .in my case, a failure and abusive disaster.

Can you move? I know you don't want to sit there with all of her stuff... .can you just move and leave her with the mess? I have a big time feeling that she will NEVER get her stuff out of there and that you will forever have that crap. I read stories on here all the time of people who never come back for their stuff. In real life, I have a friend whose wife had an ENORMOUS jewelry box... .and she never came back for a single piece of really nice, expensive jewelry. He finally told her if she didn't come and get it that he would give it away. She never came... .and he gave it away.

Her leaving her things there is one more way to control and manipulate you. They are strings to you. Right now you have to sever absolutely every string you have tied to her. Clean cut. 

For me, through one of our breakups, he and I played a words with friends game. We both came to use that one tiny strand as a way to communicate that we were thinking of other person. But you can't have that if you want to detach. One tiny thread, even mutual friends, could keep you trapped.

The sooner you can resolve the apartment situation, the better. maybe you should sublet your half, and she can deal with the roommate.  You are the only one capable of getting all of your stuff out of there... .so maybe you should carve your own path to emotional freedom... .

and trust me... .freedom is out there.

Cloud - I think you're completely right on all accounts.

The problem is, I realistically can't move out.  NYC is extremely expensive, and the leasing structure is insane.  Basically, once you sign a lease, you're locked.  I don't have the capital to move out.  I don't want roommates (I'm 28 - starting anew with roomies sounds awful, especially since I lived alone directly after college.  I haven't had a roommates since 2009!), I have a cat, and the stress of moving is horrendous, especially since I have a ton of stuff.

If I found a studio for $1700 (a cheap studio) I would have to have at least $3400, to pay the deposit and first month, at LEAST, and that's if I can find an apartment without a broker (easily another $1700 - $2000).  Plus renting a moving van ($1000), you're talking $4000 at minimum and likely closer to $7000.

When K and I moved in, I had to borrow $4000 from my mom, and that was with me and K splitting rent!  It's insane because that was literally 6 months ago - it just seems unfathomable.

I wish I could cover her half of the rent and cut her out, but I just don't have the money right now - I work on partial commission and I'm at the whim of clients.  I want to have a nice amount of money saved so I don't have to borrow money, in case of an emergency.  I've been paying my mother back on the loan since we moved in.

I agree 100% that K is leaving her stuff at the apartment, in part, to keep her foot in the door.  She and I just chatted again on gchat about the apartment, and again she emphisized that I shouldn't be bringing anyone over to stay in her bed.  I've told her numerous times I have NO interest in dating, even though I did join dating apps, because I'm just not ready.  I asked her to do the same when she stayed over - not have any guests.

Is this her projecting?  Is she telling me this because she wants to control, or because she's guilty?  I can't decide if she's cheating or not, and, really, it's none of my business or concern.  We are not together, and she can do as she pleases.

I feel like maybe I'm subconsciously keeping her in by making her leave her stuff - I hope I'm not, but I can't tell.  I'm so emotionally confused that I can't find clarity on my own actions.  I just know that it doesn't seem like she's resolved anything, other than that right now she hates me.  None of this feels healthy.

She sounds like she has a problem with alcohol?

I always thought she did.  Her mother is a serious alcoholic, and K (who is 5'3 and about 115lbs, MAX) drinks 3-4 drinks at least 3 or 4 days a week.

Basically, it's either 0 or 1 drink, or 3 or 4 or (usually) more.

After re-engaging today I'm crazy anxious.  Any advice on ridding myself of it?

So the girl who K is staying with met up with HER ex last night (who I am friends with, unbeknownst to K or the girl with whom she is staying).  She told her ex that K is so much happier now, and that all of K's friends from Houston are encouraging her to keep this going.  Also, that i'm manipulating her with the rent.  And that they all blocked me on social media except the girl with whom K is staying - she didn't block me so K could stalk me!

Intentionally stalking after she dumped me - is this normal?

I also was on Venmo this morning, sending money, and noticed that K's new roommate Venmo-ed K money at 4:30 in the morning today!  That means they were out late, apparently.

Sounds like she's back to the boozing and partying.

Malfii- I know I have a hard time remembering this- "It's an illusion."  She may appear happy, but that is the front that she must put on for her friends and coworkers.  My ex was great at putting her game face on at parties or social gatherings, only to come unglued at home less than an hour later.  My ex spends most of her energy in her day worried about what others think of her. 

It is still early.  Maybe she is happy, but it's all about appearances for pwBPD.  Most people can fake it in the short term.  I do want my ex to be happy, but I know that will never be the case if she doesn't seek treatment.  I recently saw pictures of my ex on social media with a new guy.  She does appear to be happy, but I know the real her and I know that the smile that's on her face is as fake as the plastic surgery she's had done.

@ABQ -

It's amazing, because K does the SAME THING.  At my Uncle's funeral, she was so loving and nice (although my family always felt she was sort of distant).  The MOMENT we got to the airport she was screaming at me.

This happened after weddings, events I threw, after leaving bars, after hanging out with friends... .It was constant!  Even if she appeared incredibly happy, she'd immediately melt down.

The craziest thing about the 4:30 AM Venmo is that as recently as last week, she told me she had no interest in going back to her former uncontrolled party life.  In the past she'd frequently stay out late, drink a lot, get black out, etc.  It always made me a little insecure in our relationship because I knew she missed hanging out with those friends (she could never go for a drink or two and then leave.  it was all or nothing).  But she always told me not to worry and that she was happy.

The question is, which is the real her?

Malfii- I hid most of my ex's meltdowns from my friends and even my family until after she left me.  Looking back there were so many times that she would hold it together until we were alone and then BAM! Epic meltdown, where I was almost always the one to blame.  It was confusing then, and it still confuses me now.  I once asked her if she could treat me like her friends.  She didn't yell at them and they certainly were not treated as her punching bag.  They certainly would not have tolerated that behavior.  I am not sure why I did.

We were together four and a half years and I should have listened to my gut.  There was a reason we had the following lyrics from Brandi Carlile at our wedding:

"You see the smile that's on my mouth

It's hiding the words that don't come out

And all of my friends who think that I'm blessed

They don't know my head is a mess

No, they don't know who I really am

And they don't know what

I've been through like you do

And I was made for you"

ABQ - AMAZING you used Brandi lyrics.  K loves her and we saw her twice this summer, thanks to my job.  Once at Newport Folk Fest, once in Des Moines, Iowa.

It's raining in NYC today, and making me very sad and longing for her.  I'm still so split - I know K has done everything in her power to disconnect me, and I'm ignoring that.  I guess I need to realize she absolutely does not want me back.

And logically, again, I don't either.  I know she just wants to party and have a good time, and part of me knows she's probably not even thinking about me.  But I can't understand how.

Malfi wrote

Intentionally stalking after she dumped me - is this normal?


----I have heard of this. It may be the push=pull... .dumping you and then "keeping tabs" on you.  Not letting go of you totally.  Many people write that they are stalked after the BPD leaves----does anyone know any other reason?

hey Malfii,

I've been following your thread and i have to say piecing pieces of your story together that your gf's FOO is the possible issue! Her mother is an alcoholic! Your gf sounds like she has that gene too. Do you know if her mother's family has a mother or father or any other relatives that were alcoholic? If so then you know most likely that this is a contributing factor into her behavior and history now and into the future.

That being said; you're trying to control a gene, and our gene's are our make-up, we can only change our own outcomes with a course of action. She is the only one to change herself if she has this family history.

brandi carlile... .The Story! love that song too!

In my case, stalking was normal. I can't even number the times we broke up, he stalked me, and we got back together.  I now have a restraining order... .and he is still trying to find ways around it.  I have emails with him telling me he was going to stalk me. He told me in person he would stalk me at least half-a-dozen times. Yes, stalking happens. They will enlist other people to do it to.  You might as well face the fact that you have been painted black. All of her friends have likely been turned against you even though it is probably not your fault. No it isn't fair.  It happens to all of us.

She is pushing you away and will pull back... .what you have to decide on is how you are going to handle it when she tries to pull you back (imo and experience, she will try... .she will probably throw you breadcrumbs to see if you are still there and attached). I know it is incredibly hard to resist... .there were a hundred times I didn't resist the pull back in. But I can tell you... .I am so so so so so so happy to have that push/pull out of my life.

Cloudten wrote---

He told me in person he would stalk me at least half-a-dozen times. Yes, stalking happens. They will enlist other people to do it to.  You might as well face the fact that you have been painted black. All of her friends have likely been turned against you even though it is probably not your fault.

----Turned against you?  Are u talking about the "smear campaign"?  Is that because they paint us all black and want to convince others we are all black?

-----Do u know the reason'cause for the stalking? Is it their fearof  letting you go? Or tHe push pull (dump you and then keep tabs on you)?

She is pushing you away and will pull back... .what you have to decide on is how you are going to handle it when she tries to pull you back (imo and experience, she will try... .she will probably throw you breadcrumbs to see if you are still there and attached)

---Yes this is common. Does it happen even if the BPD is with someone else for the time being? I have heard after that one ends they try to return to us or throw breadcrumbs, as you wrote, even years later

The Breadcrumbs thing is interesting - yesterday, I messaged K on gchat trying to be cordial (saying something reminded me of her, but staying very brief and quick) and she had a meltdown about how we couldn't be friends and she didn't want to talk to me and wanted to separate her life from me (all fair points, if not a bit confusing because a week earlier she told me she loved me and missed me).

I made the point that I was still her best friend, and probably the person she trusted most, and she acted as if she didn't care.

I then asked what her ultimate goal was here - to never speak to me again?  To rid me from her life?

All of this felt and sounded totally desperate - I hated myself for doing it.  But she's the person who could never have a plan, and that's still largely the case.

Interestingly enough, today she messaged me asking if I was excited for Jerry Seinfeld's performances at the Beacon Theater in NYC.  

Exact wording:

"OK. I know I said yesterday we shouldn't chat but I have to know if you are geeking out over the Seinfeld comedy shows hah"

I responded "Excited"  that was it.

For months, K was invisible or didn't sign into gchat.  Literally the last 9 months of this relationship.  Now, suddenly, she's green and available always.  I'm curious what happened.

Thoughts?  Why did she message me?  Why is she suddenly available to chat (green)?

Circling back here!  Anyone?

Breadcrumbs... .my ex and i did the same thing. He found the one thread he knew he could get me on... .gchat, or email, or words with friends, or i.g., or his employee... .he always found the one thread he still had connecting to me, and would abuse it. She is on gchat for you imo. There's really no question in my mind.

I mean, what do you want out of this?

Update:  I'm still ruminating too much.

the exBPDgf rejoined Facebook, which she deactivated and swore off in June, and changed her picture.  40 minutes later (literally a MINUTE after I saw it) she unfriended me.  She's still FB friends with my mom and my best friend.

As far as she knows, I didn't see her picture - I had literally been online for a minute, if not less. 

Should I assume she rejoined and changed her picture because she's doing Tinder/Bumble/etc?

Ok- one of the big turning points for me in my recovery was realizing that I was taking ruminating as a negative thing.

Ruminating, in and of itself, is not necessarily negative. Turning your relationship over and over in your head is actually part of processing the breakup and is completely normal. It does get better... .it takes WEEKS... .but it does get better. But allowing yourself to ruminate, allowing yourself to process it... .is definitely part of the healing process.  Don't feel bad for ruminating... .ruminating is part of the normal process.  You are normal for what you have been through.

Secondly- you know what they say about assume... .Assume makes an A$$ out of U and ME. Don't ever assume anything. STOP looking at her stuff. It is hurting you. Why are you doing something that hurts? Don't do it man. If you broke up, then what does tinder and bumble and all that crap matter? It doesn't matter.

Don't do stuff that hurts. You know looking at her stuff hurts. Don't do it.

What is the status of the apartment?

Interesting situation about the apartment.

She came over yesterday to grab stuff - I had agreed to be gone while she was there (I was).

Saturday night I threw a Christmas party with about 12 of my closest friends - we decorated a Christmas tree and had a blast - honestly, it was the best night I've had since the breakup.  Everyone was very loving and supportive.

The next day I cleaned the place SPOTLESS - I didn't want it to seem like I was a mess without her.  The tree looked great, etc.

She rejoined FB RIGHT after leaving the apartment.  My guess is she must've been feeling down?  Apartment looked cute and clean, and I was gone, and had a tree up.

I'm on the dating apps, too, and when we tried to get back together she attacked me for having joined them, despite the fact that I told her, with all honesty, that I was basically on them to boost my self esteem and feel like someone else out there could ACTUALLY like me.  She didn't buy that, though it was the truth.

Beyond that, nothing new on the apartment front.  I have a feeling I'll get a "I'm not paying rent" email from her this week - I'll be shocked if she doesn't try to contact me and start some fight, despite the fact that absolutely nothing has changed.

I met a girl, on a date, who just went through a breakup exactly like mine with a BPD.  It's incredible how similar the contact is ("leave me alone, I have NO feelings for you, best of luck! etc.".  This girl has been super helpful this weekend in talking me through problems since she was just in my shoes.

Malfi wrote--the exBPDgf rejoined Facebook 40 minutes later (literally a MINUTE after I saw it) she unfriended me.  She's still FB friends with my mom and my best friend.As far as she knows, I didn't see her picture - I had literally been online for a minute, if not less. 

----How do u know about the timeframe? You logged on, checked her profile pic, and then she unfriended you? 

----Would she know if you looked at her pic/profile?

----Her keeping your mom and friend as friends sounds like she wants to keep a connection to you

Should I assume she rejoined and changed her picture because she's doing Tinder/Bumble/etc?

---What would the connection be between fb pic and Tinder?  Is it that those she talks to on TInder may see her facebook page, so she changed the fb pic?

Malfi wrote---

I met a girl, on a date, who just went through a breakup exactly like mine with a BPD.  It's incredible how similar the contact is ("leave me alone, I have NO feelings for you, best of luck! etc.".

-----I heard the "best of luck" speech too.  Has yours (or the girl you met's ex) tried to reconnect since saying that?  If a non says "I have no feelings for you, by, best of luck" it would sound like a definite end, but with a BPD it might not be, since they do the push pull

@Shatra -

On FB you can't see if people are viewing your profile.  But it said that she had updated her picture 40 minutes ago, and then moments later I was unable to view her complete profile.

In order to join most dating apps, like Tinder and Bumble, you HAVE to have a Facebook profile - it is a requirement of the apps, as it uses pictures from Facebook.

The supportive girl---- keep her as a friend... .seriously. Having someone in real life you can talk about this stuff with is invaluable.  But don't be surprised if it means you can only have a friendship and not a romance... .but keep her as a friend... .for now... .it will do you a lot of good.

I'm a total idiot.

After VERY little contact for a full week, I messaged my exBPDgf to let her know a couple of things.

I know for a fact that she's continuing to talk to a girl from my office who she had been loosely friends with.  This girl is basically the biggest gossip in the world, and will absolutely try to get details so she can talk about me behind my back. 

I asked K if she'd please not hang out with the girl and she argued with me that she wouldn't talk about me (total BS).  Eventually she relented and said she'd respect me.  Lets hope she does.

I had a few other minor questions that I wanted to clear by her about friends of mine staying over (she asked me to clear with her, and as she pays rent, I have to, I suppose).

The conversation got friendly, and I started getting more emotional than I needed to be.  I restrained myself, but asked if she missed me.  She admitted to missing certain things, and told me she'd unblock my number.  We caught up about trivial stuff a bit, and I pretended to demand $15 from her for electricity/gas.  She called me a goon jokingly, and we said bye.

I feel like even though I initiated contact, she was giving me false hope again.  Is this how I should few a conversation that went well?

She went out of her way to say:

"I don't hold all of that resentment towards you anymore. I'm really at peace and calm now. it's odd."

That was totally unprompted.

Is this the beginning of a recycle?

It will only be a recycle if you let it be a recycle.

All I see in this is  red-flag  

And if you can hear it, I hear that submarine warning siren going off too that you are going down... .

Abort! abort!

Of course the conversation went well, you showed her your emotions and she is gathering all of them up to use against you... .manipulation. Plus, it went well because she mirrored you. She let you talk first to get your vibe, then mirrored it. Because you were kind and emotional, she was kind and emotional.

If I may be honest, it sounds like you are looking for excuses to contact her. Really... .none of those are excuses, IMO.

I would not believe her one second about the resentment... .and I would not believe that she is actually at peace and calm. or IF she is at peace and calm NOW... .what will it be in 3 minutes? 3 hours? 3 days? 3 weeks? The fact she admitted "its odd"... .IS ODD! Its concerning that she finds peace and calm ODD! For me in my BPD-FREE life now... .peace and calm is all I have!

Like I said at the top- it will only be a recycle if you let it be a recycle. It can only be one way or the other. Either she is in, or she's in the way. It's up to you to decide. You know what it is like to be "in" with her. Is that a place you want to be?

One more thing to add---- something I realized in my T session this week... .

One reason we feel so connected to these people is that they actually listen to us... .they listen very intently. I was always amazed at the things he remembered that I said... .

They listen... .they are very cunning. don't be fooled.

She makes you feel good because she listens to you... .

because she is looking for any little golden nugget she can use against you later... .any little golden nugget that she can use to sway you or manipulate you.

Brief example: I once told my BPDx that "i feared making a mistake in our relationship, like what if someday i cheated on him."  THAT was totally the wrong thing to say... .later on he goes "well you already told me you are going to cheat on me." no, that wasn't exactly what i said... .but he didn't hear it that way. He missed the whole point of what I was actually trying to say is that I was scared of him. Or maybe he did hear it- and just twisted it (probably more accurate).

You're definitely right, that I was looking for an excuse to talk to her.  I don't know why, but I wanted to make contact, even though it had been a full week.

I guess I was (am?) afraid she's moved on.  And I don't want to be left behind.  Which is a totally stupid reason.  I know I've gotten better than I've been the last few weeks, but I still ache a lot.  And I haven't been sleeping at all.

The dumb thing is I have another date tonight, with a beautiful girl who seems very nice and interesting.  And I was excited about it until this.

It's interesting that you say BPDs listen intently, because, while that's true, I never felt like she EVER got what I was saying.  Case-in-point, she'd always hear the literal of what I was saying, and never the overarching idea behind it.

Example: She went on a trip to Europe with her two friends for 10 days, and I told her I was hurt because I would've liked to have gone, if she could've waited a couple of months.  She said she'd never do it again.  And she probably wont go on a trip to Europe for 10 days by herself.  Instead, it'll be to South America, or something. 

The point is, she understood that this SPECIFIC instance was hurtful, but not WHY it was hurtful. 

I've redug myself into this hole.  It's awful.  Are the relapses as bad as the initial detach?

I don't think it's stupid that you don't want to be left behind. I think its actually really normal... .it was for me anyway. It is kind of what made me fight for the relationship for a while- because I didn't want him going out with other girls.

I think you'll need to accept and expect that she is moving on- just as you are. It is a hard pill to swallow.

Hope you had a good date!

You'll have good days and bad days... .good weeks and bad weeks. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Are you asking about recycles? Each of my recycles got progressively worse. Each of my recycles ended worse than the one before. And after each recycle, my detachment has gotten harder and harder to heal from. If I could live the last 3 years over again, I would have left at month 3 and stayed gone. Heck, if I would have stayed gone after my first big breakup at year 1, I would be in a much better place than I am now... .

But flip side... .I still wouldn't be dealing with my own issues as I am now (codependent daughter of a narc mom... .is actually the trauma that caused me to stay with narc BPDx). Because I am now dealing those issues, I will be able to have the life, with or without a romantic relationship, that I always wanted for myself.

I actually agree with you that I never really felt like he understood what I was saying, but he was definitely listening intently.

Actually, I have to completely correct myself... .

If I was as strong 3 years ago as I am today, I never would have entered into the relationship in the first place.

The day I met him, he was raging- all out yelling in his father's face. I knew at that time that my universe shifted... .not like love at first sight, but I knew instantly that this person was going to be something to me. And so he became someone significant to me. I completely ignored every red flag. 

Now, would I ever entertain the idea of seeing someone whom I met raging in his father's face? NO. NO WAY IN HELL.