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I'm curious to know if BPD people every truly move on from you. Or do they simply put you off to the side to add to their pool? What if somebody treated them horribly during the relationship versus someone who treated them well?

Are there any notable differences between men and women BPD here?

My ex partner's motives seem determined by what I understand as his narcissistic traits in this regard. If he thinks he will get some narcissistic supply from you, he puts you on the side (this one is very easy to spot). If he feels that you see through his manipulations or there isn't any potential narcissistic supply, or if you have good boundaries that you protect, he will move on (very easy to spot again). Also, if you give him a narcissistic wound by cheating on him, he will do everything to get you back or at least keep you in his life because he cannot accept being rejected like that (maybe there are other factors at work here, I don't know). If you then give no response, he still tries once in a while -doesn't give up, this happens kind of impulsively I think) but also really smears you from your back but may keep a blog about how much he still adores you. 

With me, I think he is a bit afraid of me because he saw my boundaries as walls even though they were negotiable and we designed them together. This happens to me with narcs. They just disappear from my life and never bother me - because of fear of exposure I think. When I ended our relationship - he was violent towards me- he had a 180 degree turn and was very polite and loving, but also very testing. (No reference to things that happened though) I didn't respond and I bet he will move on. I'm closed to him in every way, he senses this but doesn't accept it at the moment, but I don't think it will be that long before he moves on.

PwBPD tend to run from their feelings, rather than processing them. They struggle to "move on" from relationships because they would rather distract from, instead of process the grief from a failed r/s.

In addition, pwBPD have extreme abandonment fears. They are reluctant to remove anyone from their lives completely, even people they are unable to or no longer wish to date.

Very accurate description.  When my BPDex would have a blowup and say she's done with the relationship, if I calmly asked if she means our relationship is permanently over and that I need to move on with my life, she typically wouldn't give an answer.  One time she responded and claimed she never said it was over and then changed her tone to say she just needed some time.  Also she kept in contact with some of her ex's just so she could have an option to go back if her current relationship failed. 

They put you to the side sort of like "currently not NEEDED".

My ex liked to keep a hook with every ex - leaving items at their places, just something so that she could return at her convenience i.e. when all avenues have been explored and she needs a recycle from someone somewhere.

It would seem that her exes were happy to be there as a second, or third or fourth option once the current shiny new toy had lost its shine or usefulness.

Knowing this I made sure that when I removed her from my house wth all her belongings that she would not have a teeny tiny hook left, so she could not reel me again, and I would not be able to be lied, manipulated or cheated on again.

If you give your ex the opportunity by leaving the door open even one millimetre they will try t force it open again and restart the cycle

So many similar stories of them keeping their ex's as an option, maybe leaving things behind or keeping things to have a reason for contact or sometimes just contacting out of the blue.

What I often wondered was if they consciously think about what they are doing, and if so what are they thinking? 

Are they thinking, "I'm going to break off my current relationship and pursue another but I'll leave hooks and not give them a good reason so they can't get over me or get any resolution so I can have them as an option to go back to when I'm finished with my next."   

or

"I may be abandoned soon so I will start another relationship so I don't have to be alone and then if the next relationship fails I will have someone to go back to or meet my immediate needs so I won't have to be alone."

or

Do they not even think but just react on random thoughts that cross their minds and not even know why? 

I'm thinking they aren't calculating as that would be pretty evil and hard to live with yourself.  Also when my BPDex would say or do some things, sometimes she would completely deny it even if I had proof. And if something they did can be considered bad, it was never they're fault or responsibility, it was due to others. 

What do you think?

My ex is a classic Waif and also high functioning with a good job etc.

I thinks is also pretty calculating with all the lies and cheating she did, juggling all the women with a great facade.

Does she find it hard to live with herself - in my exes case yes, she had a lot of shame, guilt, regrets, was forever running away, constantly moving, and never her fault always everybody else's.

the amount of times I provided her with black and white proof of lies, her reaction was always priceless as she denied everything.

All in all a pretty sad life/existence and I can imagine life must be pure hell - again all of her making as she burns bridges all along the way

The leave behind... .that's precisely what scares me about my ex because she did that with me. I have a whole apartment's worth of her things.

In my opinion, I think that they believe they're justified in their actions and don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I also think that they're scared. They genuinely don't want to lose you from their life, but it's the love/hate conflict. Eventually they flee, but out of confusion.

Keeping them on the hook is juvenile teenager behavior. In my case, a 28 year old woman would not do this. I broached this subject with two random women yesterday, once at a coffee shop and another at a restaurant. I said, "if you broke up with you boyfriend and he had thousands of dollars worth of your things, what would be your next step?" Without missing a beat, each of them said "Umm... .I'd get my stuff back? Say it's over? Cut them out of my life?" It was like a lightbulb went off, and at that moment I truly realized that she IS keeping me on the hook. This is what teenagers do.

Check out this video. This girl answers some of these questions from a firsthand account.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH_4pHe3djc

I never knew what my ex was until this time I did Reserch on her symptoms and she matched BPD to the T. I remember her telling me that she would call her "ex " husband at night sometimes because she felt scared and she would also do it with her"ex" boyfriend as well. I at the time in July didn't know about BPD at all. She had tol me she was "Bipolar", but the way she acted and her moods and her decisions were always changing. I went from being her love to seeing if this can work out to being friends and maybe more to finally I don't love you I don't know why I said it. So I cut her outta my life. She wanted to remain friends but I said no way! The only thing I did was sen her a bunch of articles about BPD and how I feel she was misdiagnosed as Bipolar. If I would have known about BPD I would have never taken her come ons and advances . I would have ran. She now tells me she is in the process of getting back with her ex hubby. I hope he runs too!

When I was at the pinnacle of being a doormat for her... .after we'd been broken up for a month or so we were texting one night when she mentioned the dog had thrown up on the couch and then asked if I could come clean it up. An hour long drive, to clean up dog puke. That's how much respect she had for me. You tell me if that sounds "evil".

When we broke up and I asked one simple question, "WHY?" As in why have you been treating me this way, doing everything you can to disrespect me and our relationship, the answer I got was "Because I'm a bad person!"

So maybe not evil per se, but they clearly understand the difference between treating someone well and treating someone with dignity and treating someone like crap, right from wrong. Don't for a minute fool yourself thinking they are innocent and naive and therefore have an excuse to treat people like that.

I will never forget "can you come clean up the dog puke?".

I'm sure others have similar experiences as that.

Mine put me aside saying he thought we could always get back together in a year when the bad stuff that was happening had time to settle down. I guess he thought I would forget about it all or want him back so bad I would forgive all that happened. What he didn't plan on I suppose was the gf getting pregnant! How two people could be so immature and irresponsible, I don't know! I told him that was a deal breaker when he called and told me that I could take him back and that he loved me and he is mad that I din't take him back sooner before this happened! I told him I asked him to get help and try and work this out. He decided to do it his way and run off with the other person. He knows he doesn't really want to be with her and she is a totally different kind of person than him. He told me he has plans to date people in the future and he would rather not marry her and pay alimony and child support! I told his Mother that he told me all of this... .I am not sure if they will encourage him to marry her or not. His Mother never responded to me. I think they have given up on him and don't want to hear about it anymore. Sad. So, yes, I think they put you aside until they need you if you will take them back.

YEP! The first time we broke up was because I couldn't justify taking three weeks off to vacation with her family down south. Her biking equipment was up by me (we lived cities apart), and she started complaining that she would have to rent a bike down there, buy all new gear, etc etc etc. SO... .I packed up a bag with clothing, another with equipment, and her bike. I drove it two hours down to her house. On the way, she called me and had a very surprised thankfulness about her. Like she didn't think I'd go out of my way to do that. I could tell that her valuing me was increasing a bit during that call, but she already had "plans" that evening so we'd miss each other. She asked, "can I call you later?" I said "sure." Got down there, dropped off the stuff, her sister and brother-in-law made me dinner. I drove all the way back up. The time I spent down there was less than driving ONE WAY. She never called me back that night.

While she was down there I tried to keep her upbeat. I said, "Hey, how's the trip going." Her response? "You should be here."

Also, at one point during one of her outbursts at me, she used this event as "one of the two times" I was really there for her during this relationship.

This ALSO happened to me. When she broke up, one of her many wishy washy reasonings to me was "I want to be healthy if I were to want to return to this someday." Sure! I'll just sit around and wait patiently until you need me again!

Interesting thread. I truly believe they like to keep us on the shelf for potential future use. And I also believe that it depends on how they assess the "quality" of the relationship.   What downside is there or what effort do they expend to do this?  Hardly any---which is what makes it appealing to them---it's easy to keep us tethered in orbit,  What do they have to lose?  Nothing.

During our almost two years together, throughout all of the ups and downs, ins and outs, pushes and pulls, blacks and whites she never once said "Good bye" or "I never want to see you again".  I was never blocked on any device or social media.  I'm not saying that I'm necessarily Prince Charming but I did take very good care of her which she did admit several times during moments of clarity. 

That being said, she still tries to portray her new five month relationship with my replacement as a "friendship".  Thru some nefarious means I have found out that it is much more than that.  Why keep up the facade?  To keep me around while her distorted BPD mindset truly believes that I'm buying the friendship story.

LF

Learning fast wrote

During our almost two years together, throughout all of the ups and downs, ins and outs, pushes and pulls, blacks and whites she never once said "Good bye" or "I never want to see you again".  I was never blocked on any device or social media.  I'm not saying that I'm necessarily Prince Charming but I did take very good care of her which she did admit several times during moments of clarity. 

That being said, she still tries to portray her new five month relationship with my replacement as a "friendship".  Thru some nefarious means I have found out that it is much more than that.  Why keep up the facade?

======Mine never blocked me either or said he never wants to see me again. BUt I assumed that since he is with someone else, it is over between us forever.

-----Mine also refers to replacement as "a friend", but then said he is "seeing her" as a friend. I always thought seeing someone means dating?

----Yours could be referring to replacement as a friend in order to prevent you from staying away forever... .so she can return to you more easily

my ex always seem to refer to me as a friend when he was upset with me. Thanked me for being a good friend. I was not his gf at the times that were convenient for him. I think when he started talking like this I started pulling away a bit. Other things he did made me pull away more. Just a friend he confided in, slept next to every night , he lived w me and didn't stay in the spare, we were intimate and told me how much he loved me daily. Kissed goodbye everyday. I just didn't understand how he was able to have me as his gf (that's how he introduced me to people) and his good friend all in a flick of a switch. That hurt knowing how much I had done to help him.

It's pretty clear that the consistent behavior is yes they keep us on the side for future potential use if there's something they can get out of it. They don't want to end it permanently so they don't give you reasons or say things for permanent closure or they keep hooks to initiate contact again.  

If this is completely calculated by them then it's pretty evil.  I just can't believe they have rationale thinking.  I don't think they know what love is, it's just a thing you say when you are getting your immediate needs met and the next day they can say bye and start with a replacement with no true remorse.  There's no way they can feel love and dump you with no pain.

And any remorse they claim they have is just a way to manipulate the situation and not sincere.  I think they just react in irrational ways due to their irrational thoughts.  Their actions are evil though so maybe they are evil people.

shatra,

Just like everything else BPD there are numerous interpretations.  I suspect that she wants to keep me hooked as we are both divorced in an area with limited options (in fact my replacement is a long distance relationship) and I'm currently not involved with anyone.  

I've been NC for just over 3 weeks as my interest in maintaining any type of relationship is waning and I'd rather leave the ball in her court.  If she reaches out that's fine.  If not, that's ok too.  Time + distance = clarity + objectivity in my judgement.

LF

Butterfly I know exactley what you are talking about! My ex did the same thing to me. She wanted me and then she wanted me as a friend and maybe more to a friend then to We are not compatible. It's over. Yup ! It's unreal what they do to people. I don't care how sick or what issues they have going on in their heads they have to know what they are doing to other people and they have to know its not right or ok to treat other people this way. I told my ex one day you are going to meet up with the wrong person and then you are gonna be sorry. Your luck can only carry you so far

Not as severe as your dog puke story but I remember towards the end of the relationship when she'd raged at me over nothing and I asked what good I was to her since I had apparently caused her so much harm. I was at a low ebb by this point and I had almost started to believe her BS, so I had to ask. What good am I to you? Her answer was quite unexpected. "I think you are very useful to me".

So she didn't love me and didn't think much of me as a human being in general but she still kept me around for another gruelling 6 months because I was useful. Shocking really but I was weak and needy enough to kick that one into the long grass and hope for better days.

That was it in the end. I was useful to her.

When my exgf broke up with me she first listed all the things wrong with me and the relationship. Of course I didn't understand because a week before she told me how in love she was. I was confused. But she asked me if I just wanted to take a break at first. I said no because it sounded like she was dumping me. A week later when I asked for answers she told me we were done but didn't rule out a future with us. 2 months later we talked but she refused to talk about relationship. She did ask to be friends though. So I do think they kinda want you to be in the background .

Was that after two months of no contact?

Yeah burrito man after two months I contacted her, I was drunk. Basically told me she doesn't think of us anymore. How's that for coldness. I had a 6 year history with her and divorced for her. She told me she could use my friendship and we can text . Wtf is that! Anyway that was the beginning of October. Haven't spoke to her since. I realize she has issues but there is nothing I can say or do to help. It's really very sad and has wounded me deeply. Unfortunately I didn't find out about BPD till after breakup. Funny thing is I tried to get her into therapy with me while we were dating because of her use of silent treatment. She of course refused and got mad.

Question. Do a lot of them use this so called "silent treatment"? My ex would do this to me after she ended the relationship. I would want to talk to her but she woul not answer my calls or my texts. So after sending her a few emails she answered and said" Since my silence is not getting through to you etc". What do they get outta this? It's not like I ended the relationship with her , she did. And to boot she wanted to remain friends but I was like No way!

Confused, they use it for control. It's verbal abuse without words and it's cruel. For me I never understood it. I had no idea what BPD was while in the relationship. She would use it when she got mad or didn't get her way. It would last for a few days to over a week. When she snapped out of it and I tried to talk about it, she would blame me. Say I get her so mad she just shuts down. Of course I believed it and tried my best to be better and tried not to get her mad.

Bigmd mine did the same things to me. Mind you she was my childhood sweetheart at 14 yrs old in 1987. My mom broke us up and threatened my ex. After that she became this person I never recognized. She found me on FB in 2013 and I stupidly accepted her friends request. Right away  she wanted to talk about how my Mom yelled at her etc but I would just cut her off. I also was married at the time too. So this past June she pms me thru FB and again start the Mom convo with me. I this time took the bait and she then sai that she still loved me. She herself was just newly divorced at this time and I separated. I had no idea about BPD myself and she told me she was diagnosed Bipolar as a teen. Then during our 2 month phone affair she would push/pull. Break this off a few times say don't let me shut down.

Etc. I had no idea what was going on. She would also say that she was still in contact with her ex husband and ex boyfriend and I to be honest thought that very weird. She also confessed how this time last year she befriended a guy sh didn't even know on line and has him spend 10 days at her apt. She also told me she had to drink just to put up with him and sex with him. I was like Wtf is this? Then Sept she just dumps me right before we were to meet up like it was nothing. No remorse , no tears nothing. That's when I did Reserch an foun out about BPD. Now mind you I was still speared from my wife at this point. So once I found out about BPD I sent my ex articles thru email telling her I feel she was misdiagnosed with Bipolar and she should go and get help. What does she do instead? Contacts my wife onFB with a message saying I'm sending her articles and I want to "help" her. If I'm married to my wife and if we are "still" together I should back off from her. Then she goes on to say I should stay out of her life. Then 10 min later sends my wife another email saying the same things except worded diffrently! What is that? Now mind you my ex changed her profile pic right before she contacts my wife to a sexier pic of herself and to boot sends my wife these messages on my Exs Birthday! How crazy is that!

burritoman

you asking if they(BPD) move on or put you off to the side?

in my opinion even a BPD don't know the correct answer to your question since their psyche is in different mode every 15 minutes.

So my wife responded a week later to my ex on FB and basically told her she needs help etc. myself and my wife are still seperated but trying now to work on our marriage. So after my wife send this to my ex she replies saying she does not want my help etc. how now she is in the process of getting back now with her ex husband blah blah. Then she says Happy Holidays to my wife . After you would think its the closing to the message like a normal persons does she continues on her rant. How her husband feels I'm harrassing her trying to push my help on her lol! And that "he feels" she should get a no contact restraining order on me etc! And she wants no more contact with me. Lol! Do I belive she is back with her ex hubby no! I just think she is annoyed I wanted no friendship with her so I won't be in her stable once she wants to recycle me!

Mine would love to be back with me if it weren't for my calling the police on him when he is violent, is what I can get out of it. He may even want me back part time if I would do it now that his GF is pregnant. He says he doesn't want to marry her, but I suspect he will. Not sure. I suppose I will always be a reminder due to the money he pays me... Maybe that's why he did that- so he could always find me... .Not sure!

You are married?

Yea? And was not with my wife when this happened. Why?

JW why you keep reflecting on this when you have already moved on?

First off you don't know me at all. You don't know my past etc! So where do you "get off" ?  If I were you worry about "you" unless you have some advice to say then I would just keep my remarks to my self!

I love this. I might use this in the future. I always felt my ex ended things, only to regret it by the next day, but was too stubborn to say so. This seems like a good response.

They don't even think but just react on random thoughts that cross their minds wildly fluctuating feelings and don't even know why.  

Well here's the conundrum.  During the honeymoon phase of the relationship, they are on their best behavior and treat you like Gods to get you hooked.  This period of time shows they can consciously control their words and actions. For my situation, the first 5 months were wonderful.  Granted we only saw each other for 3 days every two weeks due to my job travels however we did talk every day on the phone.  She didn't show any BPD traits until after that time when I was hooked.  Then the angry outbursts, the verbal abuse, the lies, cheating, push/pull dynamics began. 

As a matter of fact, I've read that psychiatrists use the example of the honeymoon phase of the relationship to demonstrate that pwBPD do have the ability to control their emotions and thus they can be cured.

I have to disagree with this. During the honeymoon phase they aren't triggered so the negative behaviour doesn't come out. Its not a case of controlling their emotions they are just experiencing different ones. The other side of the coin so to speak. Once they start to see our flaws and the little things that annoy them are noticed then they slowly build up. The trust starts to fail and the negative side comes out. Lets face it in the beginning we where more available. I know I was and could move things around to accommodate her. After a while things cant be put off and we have to say no to some things. This change in our behaviour is noticeable to a pwBPD and could be seen as us withdrawing thus triggering abandonment fears.

The trouble I had with my wife was that I always believed her actions were malicious.  That is my mistake.  That I responded as a man.  That is, until I found about BPD.  We can't think of them as acting maliciously towards us. This doesn't excuse their behavior but should shed light on your actions.  I DO believe they don't put you to the side but more their INTENSE emotions.  I have learned that their emotions are 5-8 times (something like that) more magnified than ours.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diEhdbGC-mg

Right before my wife left, she woke up one day (after a great weekend together) telling me she thought I didn't love her anymore.  She then told me she woke up feeling "so much love for me". <----  This is not normal.  You can't turn it off and on. 

In my 20 years, exposed to my wife, I can clearly see patterns.  Patterns that have allowed me to see, that there is my wife who is her "true-self" and there is my wife who is her "false-self".  I have also learned that cheating is not a common trait for BPD.  We are on this forum, not because of BPD entirely, but because of this specific BPD trait.  What if your SO gambled or self-medicated using drugs?  not sex?  Would you still accept them?  Would you still deal with it?  It is not same emotionally but it is the way they cope.  This stems because of some sexual abuse as a child.

After so long, I can't handle it emotionally anymore.  So I chose to go NC/detach not because of the action of "cheating" but more because I can't handle the disorder anymore.  Do I expect her, some day in the future, to try again?  Absolutely!  This has been the pattern for 20 years. 

I hope this makes sense. 

What if your BP self-medicates or self-soothes, or whatever, by watching porn, having sex, AND using alcohol? What if your BP told you about the porn, and the cheating, and the alcohol very soon after meeting - if he exposed his flaws so simply and talked about wanting things to be different. And you (ie. me) were charmed by this self-awareness, this openness and assumed that it meant this person was very actively working on these issues?

I, personally, didn't see any of these as a threat to me. The cheating, which eventually happened (and it wounded me unbelievably when he confessed), seemed impossible given how taken he appeared to be with me.

The reason I went back after learning about the cheating is that I saw how I had contributed to his stated feelings of insecurity and jealousy and fears of rejection. When his behaviour suggested he was not 90% focussed on me, I would myself react like a princess-child and take myself off to meet friends, about whom I would remain deliberately mysterious.

Oh yes, I knew what I was doing, but also didn't know how else to communicate that the intense loving-up stopping and being replaced by a goofiness and self-centredness just hurt me. From my current, considerably wiser ( I hope to god ) perspective, I see that I had a point - that I picked up on something that was not 'normal' in him, but that also a goodly amount of it was due to my own insecurities and therefore need to be adored.

I went back because I thought I'd try to behave more maturely, develop some of those communication skills that I have in spades in every other area of my life, bar the romantic.

That was four months ago, and now I'm out the other side, knowing that even if I'd had the skills it wouldn't have been enough for that man-child to feel safe enough to stay his "true self" for longer than a few days.

The reason I started to answer this post is because of the "true self" / "false self" distinction. By "true self", do you mean, a sort of reasonable, loving, connected human being?  That's what I think or feel when I read those words and I often said that I could deal with the selfishness, the porn ( actually pretty harmless stuff that he watches ), the depressive episodes, the alcoholism (even that!), and the general ineptitude for many practical matters of life - as long as there was a gentleness and trust between us and an agreement that WE were in all of it together.  Because that's how I wanted to see his "true self".   

In the end, now, I realise that whatever the true self is in his case, it also definitely includes the lying, cheating, not answering perfectly fair and reasonable questions, insane jealousy that manifests itself as curiosity about who I'm doing something with rather than what I'm actually doing -- I could go on.

All these things are part of his true self. The thing I thought was at the core; a wounded individual who just wants to be loved enough to be "good" is so bound up with other stuff that there is no way to separate it.   

I hope both that they do move on, and that they don't.

I miss my exBPD, even though I know it is not healthy to be in contact with them. Every time we've gone NC they initiated it, and then within a week broke NC. This time it's been a month and seems to be sticking - so I have many mixed feelings.

I want them to be happy, and according to them I am harmful and toxic to their happiness. Not sure how much I agree with that, but it's their choice to make. It hurts not having them in my life, and not being a part of their life. Especially right now.

I have never believed that I could have some sort of relationship, outside of marriage, with my wife. It does hurt and it is sad because of the kids. 

Yesterday I came across my ex's new Instagram as she was liking pics of friends of mine. It had appeared she is back east with her ex husband. Completely changed her appearance and got a house with all the xmas decorations. It hurt to see but I had already had a feeling she had moved on. Me on the other hand can't even process being anywhere near a relationship with anyone. I woke up today from another email from her 6 days after the last one merely stating "just checking on u" I cannot fathom why she would do this. The selfish side of me wants it to be because I hope she is feeling the pain of the home she single handedly destroyed and the person who she wrecked for no other reason than loving her but my guess is she wants to see where I'm at so she knows if she still has me as an option or not. I haven't replied to here emails and will continue not to.