BPDFamily.com

I so badly want this marriage to work. I don't think I can radically accept my wife's disorder. I am not sure I have what it takes to do this. I get dismissed for a whole week then when she comes back around she begins questioning me as to whether I have a female friend. I am a grown man being interrogated by my "companion" when I try to tell her how it makes me feel my feelings don't mean S%#T!  I give her no reason to make her suspicious. I cannot let someone control me. She was going through my phone friday night. I had to answer question after question about my texts. I didn't have to but I did to show her I had nothing to hide. Nothing there! So it's why do you delete some texts and not others?

Yes of course I wanted to tell her put my phone down, but I have nothing to hide. That would just make it worse.

we end up having a decent saturday and sunday and then sunday night everything falls apart again? over the fact she saw my iPhone change to the home screen whence was walking down the hall into the bedroom. I Let her know that it was a coincidence. But she said something about me having a girl friend?  I told her again how it makes me feel when she asks me this. When someone says they don't trust you 100% and you know that you are not doing anything?

So when I tell her how I feel she goes off on a tangent swearing calling me a bunch of crap. I can't put up with being called this. 

They are telling you one minute they love you and the next minute you are the scum of the earth, AND YES they believe you are!  I have tried. I am tired of trying.

I am trying to decide what I am willing to sacrifice in my life to sustain this marriage. Some are wired to do this... .some are not.   

Hey byfaith, Been there; done that, with my W going through my iPhone.  I had to set up a Passcode as a boundary.  It's all part of the need to control, as you note, which springs from the well of insecurity and fear of abandonment, in my view.  I agree, you are an adult, yet she's treating you like a child due to her own child-like emotions.  In my view, she has no right to invade your personal privacy by reviewing your text messages, yet I'm sure she has her reasons, because you have a GF!   lol  Just kidding . . .

LuckyJim

did you ever plan an exit strategy, just in case? I have been really thinking about it. There is so much more than just this phone stuff. I really want to see things get better but she seems to be getting worse. I can possibly see her getting violent, possibly. In exit strategy I mean leave the marriage and not look back. I know that is what I would have to do, not look back.

Living in the same house with someone that hates your guts is not enjoyable.

Hey by faith, Again, been there; done that.  Of course it's much more than the phone, which is only the tip of the iceberg.  She wanted to go through my emails, too, which I refused to allow.  I knew that I needed to have a private lifeline to the outside world.  Even so, I was incredibly isolated, which was unhealthy.  Sure, I thought about exit strategies.  Finally, two kind friends and a family member conducted an intervention on me, which gave me the strength to leave; otherwise, I was so wiped out that I felt like I had nothing left in the tank, which is a lousy place to be, believe me.  If I can make one suggestion, it would be: don't let yourself get worn down to a pulp.  It's important to take care of yourself, which I learned the hard way.

LuckyJim

I'll be honest.  It is a different world we live in.  Growing up we had one central telephone. 

No girls were calling my dad, and if so obviously my mom would ask questions.

I lived with my wife who had her secret pass codes.  She was cheating.  Always put the phone face down.  Closed the computer when I walk by.  It is a crappy way to live with a spouse. Of course I would notice, then I was "controlling"

Sorry to hear, Richardson.  My situation was different because my W was trying to stop me from contacting friends and family, due to her own insecurities.  I was cut off from the people I loved, so it became necessary for me to take steps to insure that I could reach those important to me.  Plus, I think its dangerous to allow a pwBPD to isolate you, because you can lose all perspective on what normal life is like.  The drama and turmoil becomes the norm, sad to say.

@ byfaith, In my experience, the potential for the pwBPD to become violent is there, so suggest you don't kid yourself.  my BPB punched a hole in the wall, broke down a door, dumped a gallon of water on my head while I was sleeping, smashed my personal items, chased me around the house, wouldn't let me sleep, etc.  I could go on and on.  Suffice to say, violence was always simmering close to the surface for my BPDxW.

I used to blame myself, thinking I must be doing something to trigger such rage.  Eventually, I came to see that I was just the closest person to the powder keg.

LuckyJim

she doesn't do it to stop me but she tries to control the relationships through having to know all details that don't even really matter. That is about as bad. So a simple text exchange or conversation that goes on can be turned into something mind bending. If that makes any sense. I do feel isolated. I am here at work and I don't want to go home. She is pissed about something. So I have to figure out how to deal with it when I get home. I didn't respond to her phone call toady quick enough so I got a wonderful text letting me know I didn't care if there was something wrong at home. So I called her and she ignored my call.    I roll my eyes here cause I can't do it when I go home lol

I hear you... I guess I have a unique perspective as I just went back home to visit my small home town.  My sister and her husband are behind in technology, and share the same email address...   Don't even know how to text etc... .And they are totally happy...

I don't think I will ever marry again and be in a relationship with locked phones, passwords, etc... . 

I'm replying to the original post, not the replies that followed.

She has abandonment issues, which may be why she asks if you've been with someone else. Or, she's just paranoid? Good job relieving her fears, when she was paranoid about who you've texted. That was supportive and transparent of you; I'm sure it was helpful. I think it's great you let her see your texts/phone; you are married, and in my opinion, she has a right to ask you those types of questions.

Once again, on Sunday, when she got paranoid, you were supportive by letting her know it was only a coincidence that your phone went to the screen saver; you are being very supportive- awesome!

Then, you let her know how it makes you feel when you are being honest and she doesn't trust you; good job again, especially if you did it in a calm way. If you didn't, she isn't emotionally mature enough to handle that. Hopefully you were calm; if not, there is next time to get that right. Still, good job communicating how that makes you feel; not trusted when you are being honest.

Keep up the good work while figuring out what you can and can not tolerate. You sound to me like you are pretty far into good communication habits already. It's just a matter of deciding how much you can deal with.

thank you for all the replies.


  here is a problem. Whenever I state how something makes me feel to her it does not matter, bottom line, I am always wrong in her mind.

When I told her how it made me feel, she dismissed me and I got internally frustrated. I rubbed my hand on my forehead and said dammit not under my breath but not in a normal tone. Her view of me saying and doing that is she thinks I am out of control and I should not have said that. Then she tops me in the profanity, but I am the one that "caused" her to say what she said because she is mad at me.

It is very difficult to convey situations on these boards sometimes. I don't think I am always right. Although I am worn out with knowing that in her mind I am causing her the immense pain she feels. We had a discussion last evening and basically she told me that I am a failure. I know I am not. 

Not sure which board to post on at this point. I need to address some major issues that I have not discussed on these boards. It is a build up of 4.5 years of issues. I don't know how to save this marriage except to give in to her demands. I will address some of those demands in another post.

My relationship was similar to yours in lots of ways.  My gf would look on my phone, always make accusations about other girls yet absolutely untrue and no proof of any wrongdoing.  The constant verbal abuse was daily.  Breakups were often, sometimes a day to a week.  I would wonder to myself and even her this question, "why would she want to be with someone that she thinks is the scum of the earth?"  Yet I still did everything to try and appease her and stay together.

I was able to use validation, empathy, and sometimes just ignore her attacks and this did lessen her outbursts or didn't allow them to get out of hand.  The insults were pretty consistent.  So even after all that, she broke up again, this time without even any argument or fight. 

Finally I just had to accept no matter what I did, what I said, how I reacted, it wouldn't change the end result.  So as hard and painful as it was, I had to move on.  The only possible hope would have been if she got therapy, (DBT showed some possible successes) but she wouldn't ever consider it.  If I just suggested she may need some help that would be a major trigger to set her off. 

You have to do what you feel you need to do for yourself.  As with me, it sounds like you are coming to the realization that things will not get better on their own and you can't go on like this.  Is there any possible way you can get her in therapy?   Best wishes to you, i feel your pain.

Hello again by faith, I think you're conveying the situation quite well, so no excuses needed.  I have been in your shoes, my friend.  A BPD r/s, in my view, is not a two-way street.  A pwBPD will provoke and goad you, then will act surprised when you react.  It's all a game to get you to engage, because once you engage you have lowered yourself to the BPD level.  I did it plenty of times, so I clearly struggled with this dynamic.  It's hard not to react when a bully is pushing your shoulder.  Sometimes the best plan is to leave: leave the room, leave the house, leave the r/s if you need to.

LuckyJim

oh my god- this sounds like my life! They turn 'nothing' into a drama. My (ex he left on Saturday) checked my phone once for evidence of an affair. Found nothing, but then proceeded to lose it over texts that is sent my friend, that slagged off his recent behaviour. He could not see that it was my property and if he looked, he might find personal stuff. So it was my fault, even though I wasn't having an affair. And they don't tell you that you can't go out alone, they just accuse you of all sorts when you come back in, so it's easier to not bother. Or when I went out with him, I would chat to other people, and then be accused of ignoring him.

I know, it's the peak of challenging isn't it? That's why I'm only friends with my pwBPD now. Even that can be too much. I don't have any real expectations of her any more. That would be unrealistic. I still try to be generous to her though, because she's an emotional Tiny Tim. 

I hear you here, brother. I think that is the thing that dawned on me very slowly; that me saying how something makes me feel is an insignificance, totally meaningless. I am, according to him, either accusing [when I'm not], or looking for drama to make me feel better [I wouldn't put it that way myself, at all, but it's true that in the past an argument was better than the sense of distance]. Sometimes I am, according to him, either lying outright about what I feel or simply don't know what I'm saying. On a few, deeply beautiful, occasions I was "right" about absolutely everything. It went from that very quickly to his being therefore just plain bad. Then I have to protect him from himself! From these crazy, black & white notions.

Ultimately though, those precious moments where I think I am being heard and seen, are very short-lived and will come back to grab my rear end with big jaggedy teeth at some point.

I spent months trying to work out what was changing his moods from one day to the next. One day being flirty, or loving and considerate and sweet, then jealous and insecure and limp somehow, and then, suddenly, full of a crazy kind of energy that had an edge to it, something dangerous that I couldn't put my finger on.

I thought it was because of all the break-ups, then I thought it was because he was guilty about cheating, then I thought it was because he was cheating at the time and wanted to end it but hadn't a clue how to do such a thing. Now I think it could just as easily as any of those have been simply mood swings that he wasn't even aware of himself and couldn't begin to explain to someone else.

Sorry, I'm going on more than I meant to. I just wanted to say that my feelings just seemed to not matter in the slightest. I remember realising it and being really surprised.

__

I also wanted to say that yes, it is difficult to convey all the nuances of both people's behaviours in written form here on these boards. We're kind of primed to pathologize all behaviours. But that's the ongoing discussion too - how many symptoms equal a diagnosis and why we actually even need a diagnosis. Why don't we just say "Wow, you behave in a really lousy way. Sort it out, please, until then I'm gone"          

I think that's the other thing that keeps us hugely stuck; figuring out how much is us and how much them and how much the dynamic that is created.  For me, the question has become simply about how much one is prepared to look at all those factors and talk about them and strive, consistently, to put some kind of checks in place.

In my case, the answer is none from him for a while. Even though I am convinced he has BPD, I still think that he was trying really hard at the beginning of our relationship to be aware of his own mechanisms. It's one of the reasons I got even more interested - I assumed someone who had insight into them was actively working on them AND would KEEP working on them.  Maybe he would have, I don't know. Maybe I played too many little games at the start until whatever tiny bit of balance he was capable of on his own was just gone. It's all been downhill since then, really.

I think none of us here think we are always right. The problem is that we doubt ourselves all the time! But you know all this anway.  :)

When my h and I first got together, we made a promise to each other that we would ne v er look at each other's texts or emails, or look in each other's purse/ wallet. We have both honored that promise. I have nothing to hide, but I have found that innocent things can be misinterpreted. And snooping t hrough someones stuff shows a lack of respect, I think.

Unfortunately,  many people with BPD perceive threats and deceptions when none exist, regardless of whether they have access to text messages and such.  For example, my h and I are both science-y people, and I once told him something interesting I'd just read about transitioning: that trans-men taking testosterone will physically transition quite quickly, but the process is much slower with trans women taking estrogen. Apparently, my h got from this conversation that I was sneaking him estrogen and was frustrated it was taking so long for him to turn into a woman. Can you believe it ? Why on EARTH would I do such a thing?

  byfaith, I could have written most of your posts on here.  My r/s, almost exactly.  My own private password to my gmail (I also use google voice) and a passcode to my phone were my very first boundaries I had ever attempted in (at that time) 18 years of marriage.    If you have read the lessons, no surprise that the first boundary led to the first extinction burst.  Here is the thing.  It all played out just like the lessons said it would.  I went in scared sh$tless but determined.  I came out of the extinction burst a changed man.  Wife acted liked she never cared about passwords in the first place, completely rewrote history.  I found hope in my first boundary.  It was a big turning point in my life.    You have what it takes  Right now you are a bit fearful and your estimate of what it takes is way bigger than it really is.  You will learn to conserve energy.  To "spend" energy where it is productive and slightly dodge "attacks" that come your way, vice trying to "repel" them like you did with "proving" your innocence.  The burden is on the prosecutor, don't offer help.  In fact, best to ignore it.  Let her energy burn out, while you save yours.   |iiii    

FF

FF

Thanks for the encouragement. One of the major things right now that is making everything worse is that there has been no sex for 3 years. NOTHING MAN! sorry

I have to admit I am scared. I hate to feel that way. Things are unpredictable. I'm not " scared" of her its just what they are capable of doing without caring at the moment.




I have been doing some of this but much of the time it creates inner turmoil in myself which bothers me greatly, I can't seem to shake it sometimes

Hey byfaith, Life is short; unless you live in a monastery, you don't have time to be celibate for three years!  This is a red flag, my friend.   red-flag

LuckyJim

  I agree this needs to change, the no sex thing.  However, it's been three years.  So changing the momentum will take time.  Let's get byfaith strong on lessons, get a plan, and move forward to see what can be changed in the r/s dynamic.  That may, or may not lead to sex in the next few months.  Taking the big view here, I'm very interested to see what kind of positive change is possible due only to byfaith changing things that he can control.  Once we see how that plays out, we should be able to make better guesses about where this could go.    

FF

Agree with that, formflier.

Sometimes the first step is the hardest.

LJ

Hey FF and LJ,

You are right I need to change. I need to understand what makes me the way I am. Why does this person hold this much sway over me? Why do I allow this? I don't think I am a coward. Maybe I have a deep seeded fear of rejection? I need to do some digging on myself. I will use my next T session to begin in this direction. Maybe I fear being a failure? I have a fear of failing her for some reason even though I know I have done all I know to do for her. I think I am scared to go through the purging fire.

I also have to admit here that if we split up I am pretty sure she would replace me pretty quick, not positive. The thought of someone else coming along and making her world wonderful and making me look like a loser puts a bad feeling in me. Got to admit I was stupid for marring someone who had been married 5 times previous. I believed the explanations for each marriage and they lasted 2 years tops. I KNOW she was abused in a couple of them. Her last marriage she had married someone who had divorced and re married his ex-wife 5 times ? I didn't know this until about 2 or so years into our marriage. I found out a lot of stuff about my wife well into our marriage that I did not know going in. I am dealing with that in my head.

When it comes to the no sex. I know this betrays my user name but I am losing hope in that area. My wife is going to a T but she has been dealing with this problem since she was 15 years old. ( I wasn't told this until after the withholding began) She has done this before but not for this long. She has never been married for 4 years either.

She had forms of abuse when she was young. She lost her virginity to her half brother (she didn't know he was her half brother at the time) She has admitted to me that she knew what men wanted so she used it to get what she wanted but she looks at men as dirty when it comes to sex. She sure didn't feel that way our first 2 years together. I don't know what can change her mindset on this?

Need advice... .do I keep posting on this board or the staying board? I am still trying even though it seems bleak

thanks 

how do you deal with someones past when it is affecting our relationship now. There is so much she told me that it really bothers me when I think about it. I keep it to myself. Should I let her know much it bothers me? 

Hello again, by faith, I suggest you post on whichever board feels most comfortable to you.  Doesn't really make a difference to us.  Concerning her past, I suggest that you address the issues only insofar as they affect your r/s rather than taking on the burden of attempting to resolve those issues for her. They are her issues, after all, and only she can address them when she is ready.  I tried for many years to get my BPDxW to resolve certain sexual trauma issues from her past, without success, because on some level the issues were too frightening for her and she lacked the strength to face them.  Yet it was something that only she could address. I think you have enough on your shoulders already. 

LJ

As best you can. I am in a similar boat. Some of the things my BPDgf has done prior to becoming a couple I have serious issue with. I was introduced by mutual friends that had known her longer. They share things with me about her past that would probably be unknown in a lot of other relationships. Other life choices she made I don't believe were in her best interest. I believe she has made great strides in trying to "escape" her old life and old ways of doing things, and I appauld her for that. These are the things that make me proud when I see her really trying.

I try to focus on the now but never forget the words of Dr Phil regarding the best predictor of future behaviour and as for sharing these things... .you are already in trouble and right now these "problems" in the past will only serve to undermine things. It may create more distance. There may be a time and place in the future, but that was HER life and they were HER lessons.

So by allowing her to trample over you like this, did you win? Was there an apology for her false accusations? Does she know now that she doesn't need to do this again? Is her mind at ease now? I'm guessing the answer to these questions is "no".

This may have nothing to do with who you're texting and who you're not texting. It's an excuse to demean and abuse you. Today it's the phone, tomorrow it will be something else but the abuse is always the same.

My experience is that if you let them destroy you like that, they not only disrespect you further but  actually resent you for what they perceive as absolute weakness. You may not have anything to hide in your phone but by not stopping her you just made your situation worse by allowing and inviting further abuse. It's not OK for you to be treated like this.

After you have been totally destroyed like this, what is it about this marriage that you would want to keep?

   Full disclosure:  I'm a stayer, not at all costs, but my desire is to stay.  Be more than happy to discuss the "marriage enders" I have done (big decisions) that ended up making things different and better in our marriage.   Byfaith, The vibe I am getting from you is that you want this to work.  I'm thinking the staying board is a good place for you, if you are ready to put for several months of solid sustained effort to improve things.  That being said, if you are more comfortable on this board.  Stay here.    The biggest "technical" difference is that "run" messages (leave her) are not allowed on the staying board.  You are free to discuss leaving over there, but don't expect advice that says "leave".  Hope that makes sense.    

FF

thats what I thought... .I don't want to discourage anyone on those boards if I am discussing leaving. You are right I want this to work BUT there is another major dynamic that I have not really discussed on these boards. My wife's son, he has paranoid SZ. He is 31 years old and he lives with us. Beside wondering what is going to set her off with our issues if I say anything that she considers "wrong" to him I am a horrible person. I think in another post I will discuss this issue. She will turn on me in a second over him.

something happened last night where I just had to swallow my opinion and just say ok and just listen to her. I feel like I am a prisoner in my own house due to mental and emotional illness.   

 This would be a good thing to start a new post, my advice would be on the undecided board (mostly since you are already here).  Give as much detail as you can stand.    she said this, I said this, quotes are best, if you can remember where you felt certain ways or felt "trapped" put that in.  The goal is to follow how YOU respond and how the relates to the lessons and general advice with "dealing" with a pwBPD traits.  Also, can you give us a list of who is in the house, if they are diagnosed with anything, and a brief synopsis of how they fit in the dynamic.  As part of the list of diagnosis, list who is in therapy, or has been in therapy.    No effort here to find "fault".  The effort is to identify where you are in the family dynamic.  That way we can make better estimates about what may happen if we change your part of the dynamic.  Since that is 100% under your control.  Hang in there man.  

FF

H i BFaith - I just wanted to say I really feel for you and I also experience a lot of the behaviours you are experiencing. I know the lessons give lots of good advice about how to validate and set boundaries etc. but I must admit I am struggling with constantly being seen as the perpertrator. I think we can work very hard to to the "right" things but if the pwBPD is not making an effort we will completely burn out. I am undecided... .but at the moment I have driven to my place of work (its the weekend and now evening) and I have been sitiing in my office for hours just to get away from the tirade and insults. If the pwBPD just can't/won't stop the barrages I just don't know what to do. I have set myself a time limit - 4 years of this is enough.

Best of luck BFaith... .let us know how you go  :)

I kind of skim read bits of this thread but can share a couple of things I've learnt after 10+ years being married to a pwBPD. Every situation is slightly different so your mileage may vary however;

1. pwBPD care about feelings very much. Except they only really care about their own feelings, so if you are attempting to have a discussion about your feelings 99% of the time you are wasting your breath (or "being selfish". Don't expect for anything to change just because you told them how you feel.

2. A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Sometimes you've just got to try something and have a go - re-kindling your sex life sounds like a good starting point for this. Stop expecting that the planets will align, magic will happen and everything will be better - it never works out like this. You've just got to walk into it head-on and see what happens. You might be the worst person on earth when it does (and get painted black for a few days) but it might just turn out OK as well.

  Byfaith, What would this look like?  Will she let you give her massages?  Do you think you can get yourself in a state of mind so you can try something a time or two, but not react?  The idea here is a great one, need to talk about how to actually go about this.  

FF

A life lived in fear is a life half lived... .You are right.

me knowing our situation sex is definitely off the table. Yes she lets me give her massages. She loves massages she has no interest in sexual contact. It's like that feeling in her is dead. She thinks she has ptsd from her last marriage and other situations throughout her life.

Last saturday was pretty good as far as just spending time together. We "talked" about our previous sex life at different times that day. I tried to passionately kiss her and it's just not "there" for her. She was leaning against the wall in our bedroom which were painting and went up and leaned her against the wall gently and she said "don't back me against the wall, I have NEVER liked that" but ten she said something like your ok, you are safe. We french kissed for about 10 second tops and then she quit and she said thank you for wanting to french kiss me  

If I as much move my hand to her bare breast under her shirt its a bad situation. She will say you are creating a situation here. I have not seen my wifes bare breasts in 3 years let alone touch here lower parts or even stroke them (don't mean to get graphic).

She lives in the past of what her body looked like.

I was telling her the things she she used to say to me when we made love to each other and she didn't get offended. She has not touched me in this whole time either not even tried not even insinuated she was remotely interested.

She has skipped her last 2 therapy sessions? I see no trying on her part except her telling me she wants things to change but nothing changes. When we used to get in bed she would say to me don't bother putting anything on... .she just wanted to touch me and please me. When I look back now I do remember that she would grab my goober and "enjoy" it anytime she wanted to, which I didn't have a problem with. If I on my own would slip my hand without permission between her legs I would get a slight reprimand.

Another major problem here is how her son affects her. He is 31 years old has the affects of a stroke and also suffers with paranoid SZ. She has MAJOR depression over that and on top of her life long struggle with it. She will not come out and bluntly say it but she feels guilty for having a companion that she can have sex with and her son does not.

Well since saturday I have decided to back off not initiate hugs, kissing, touching. I have not discussed anything about sex. She has pecked me twice on the mouth when I came home from work since then. We don't go to bed together we don't wake up together and have coffee like we used to.

I could go on... .maybe I will later. pondering a lot of things right now.

I have to be willing to be hurt severely to initiate change.

I feel like I have been doing the rope-a-dope for the last 4 1/2 years I need to be willing to get out there and give it my best shot.

  Byfaith, OK man, listen, if any of this is too much or you don't want to answer, it's ok to punt.    Will she massage you?  Will she touch your genitals?    Most massages are done unclothed or with undies on.  What does she wear?  Have you proposed something less than sex but still "sexual"?  Sex toys?    Any idea if she masturbates?  Did she have orgasms when you guys were sexual before?  Did anything happen in the last couple times you had sex that you could see that from her perspective was "bad" or did she say anything?  At what point did you realize she had really "close up shop"?  How long had you guys been without sex before this long stretch?  Big picture:  Many times I find it helpful to back up and look at the value or the "theory" of the thing.    Anyone can decide to be celibate.  From a boundaries point of view, it's perfectly OK for anyone to decide that, for whatever reason they want to use.  From a boundaries point of view, it's not ok to decide that someone else be celibate.  Especially if they don't want to be celibate.    Anyway, I know that you have been dealing with this for a while and it has to be tough to have others (such as me) suggest "a little while longer" (few months or so).    Look to the future:  My goal is to get you to a point where sexual contact resumes or you are clear in your mind that you gave it your best shot and you want a sexual partner and you take action to get one.  Hang in there man!  

FF

No and no. she will not be unclothed. she tells me she won't even look at herself in the mirror.


what I have proposed that is less than sex is just me massaging her breasts. no way. Just stroking my hand over her genital area is forbidden.


she told me emphatically that she does not masterbate. yes she had orgasms but not everytime (due to anti depressants) I believe that.

I will continue later today... .I am at work. I need to address something you said further down in your post... I will be back later.

thanks for your input

  Was she open to sex toys in the past?  Vibrators.  Did that help her have orgasms if she allowed it?  One more time, update me on if you guys are in MC, or have been in MC.  You said she was in T, but had missed a few last appointments, any idea what is going on in T with her.  Thanks for you openness, I know this is hard stuff.  

FF

not in our past, not sure if she has ever used them, probably, has I don't ask. I know too much about her sexual past for my comfort already. I used my fingers to get her to orgasm with a lot of lubrication. I think the anti depressents kill the ability to achieve orgasm. She made a statement a couple of times about being a sexual camel... .she would go long periods without achieving an orgasm. She would enjoy the sex though. The longest we would go without sex when we were having it was 3 to 4 days and that would be if she was mad at me for something

Not in marriage counseling... .she has already stated she will not go to MC. I have tried reading books with her. there is one out there "HIs needs, her needs" Willard Harley Marriage builders. Awesome book. I am so tired of trying to lead her to help she takes none of it.

She is "in" therapy. she has gone to 3 sessions and she is doing what she has done in the past, she is blowing off her appointments. I did not say a thing to her about missing yesterday. Its always some reason... .yesterday it was too sleepy. She does not give me too many details. The first 3 sessions have been about working on her depression (supposedly). She was at a point of wanting to commit suicide a few months ago and taking her son with her because he doesn't want a life and she can't get him to want to live a productive life.

more in a bit... .

Formflier

www.pureintimacy.org/c/coping-with-sexual-anorexia-and-aversion/

pretty good description. Problem is that she does not want to hear this stuff, read about it or talk to the T about it