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We got back the mediation report. It was short and to the point. Two pages in fact.

BPDm and SD7 are to have NO contact for 120 days. After which time BPDm may begin supervised visits for one hour a week. BPDm must remain in therapy, but see if she can apply herself to doing some work, instead of using therapy as emotional support(comfort).

Sole legal and physical custody to dad.

It's all very bittersweet, we get a break, SD gets a break. But what and how to talk to SD, who will probably not get to say a last goodbye. And sheesh, it's Christmas.

I am angry the judge didn't put SD into the supervised visits we asked for while pending this report. SD had to be subjected to mom going off the deep end for almost two months before getting this report and if he had been willing to call T he could have saved us a lot of grief and this Christmas fiasco.

You won't hear me talking about how I feel bad for BPDm. She has been given ample time, guidance, and counsel that this was coming and she could have avoided it if she had been willing to even show the least little bit of improvement. If she's too stubborn to change she brought this on herself, if she's too sick mentally to change then this is for the best to protect SD.

I don't think she will be able to respect this order any more than any of the others.

That's fantastic news bravhart.

It will be tough on SD as its Christmas though. Ive got similar going on minus the courts, My sons live with me and want nothing more to do with their mum so I know how much this is hurting her. Like you I have little sympathy for her as she has brought this on herself by ignoring all the advice she was given that would have improved the situation.

Hope you all have a stress free Christmas and enjoy the 120 days of peace ahead.

EM

Great.  I'm wondering if the verdict would have been this favorable if going through the court system.  It may have been difficult to get all this out on the table.

I know in my case all of the "victories" were very bittersweet if compared to the amount of time, money and aggravation spent to get to what should have been very obvious and simple resolutions.  Melodramatic.

This is actually through the court. It's called family court services, they do a mediation, which is not much or any mediating in our case and recommend to judge and then goes to hearing for final order. So while it's not quite a done deal, it is the recommendation of the courts own investigators.

When speaking with D, just say, "I'm sorry D, I have to follow the court order.  So does your mother.  That's just the way it is.  How can we get through the ne4xt few months with as little impact as possible?"  Validate her proper feelings (and address the ones not so helpful or practical) yet guide her to the reasons why this will be good long term.

Hi bravhart

Excellent news! It will be a transition for your SD but my guess is that in some ways it will be a relief for her as well.  There will be a lot of mixed feelings that she will have to negotiate.  I can't remember, is your SD in therapy?  We have found that an invaluable tool for my SO's D15 (D19 is heading back to therapy on her own - great choice! - has her first appointment next mo). 

It is tough having this come at this time of year.  All you can do is be supportive, validate SD feelings and try to have a nice Christmas.

I understand you having very little sympathy for BPDm it's hard to have any when you see the abuse, pain and chaos directed at a child.  Mental illness or no mental illness we are all responsible for our actions.

Take Care and have a Merry Christmas 

Panda39

Just a brainstorm... .haven't been through this exactly but how you might handle it... .

Maybe if at some point SD7 wants to talk to her mom, you could encourage her to write her mom a letter... .but don't mail it.  You can tell her that it's not time to mail it yet - "We have to wait til April to mail it." - and put it away somewhere.  She can write her mom as many letters as she wants, and you can save them all, and then at the end of the 120 days, you can ask SD7, ":)o you want to mail all these now?  Or maybe just the last one?" and let her choose.

That way, you're letting SD7 communicate, but not have to deal directly with her mom.  You're giving SD7 some choice in the matter.  And you're also respecting the court order... .which may have some big benefits in terms of SD7's peace and quiet.

And on top of it, she will be getting practice writing letters and working out her thoughts... .

Great idea Matt. If the judge does in fact order what the mediator recommends we will do that. After what happened on xmas eve I don't exactly have any faith.

BPDm now has another attorney, who clearly hasn't read any of the past stuff, and just believes that BPDm has gotten a bad rap and now with the right counsel will get this recomendation kicked out.

She's got a champion fighting for her again and it will be months before L figures out we are right.

Unlike us and our attorney who are ragged and worn out from this fight.

Why does this woman always win? No matter what she does she comes up smelling like a rose. It's disgusting.

Who arranges the supervised visits (and who does the supervising)?


Same thing happened in my case too, bravhart1. Ex had so many constraints placed on him he just gave up and now he's gone. It's a different set of challenges now that he's gone.

Have you gotten any counsel from a T about what to say? I actually found it was my own T who helped the most. She helped me recognize that S14 was going to be concerned about things that were totally different than what I thought he would be worried about. And to recognize that S14's was going to roll out for years, and change shape.

How does she keep affording new attorneys?

I wouldn't waste time getting too caught up in trying to convince her L of anything. The BPDm in my case went through five Ls before it was over. Each of the first four "got it" inside of four months. Every time one of them figured her out and tried to work with us she fired them or was fired by them. The last L was more of a criminal defense than a family law attorney. In short, she didn't care that there were kids involved or how guilty her client was, she felt it was her job to help her client get away with as much as possible. BPDm loved this L until she did a bang up job of helping BPDm lose her kids.

My favorite exchange between myself and the last L when I was on the stand:

L - "So, just because the parties don't get along and she doesn't make it easy for him to see or talk to the kids, you think that means she should have them taken away from her?"

Me - "Um... .That is actually a factor that the court considers when determining where the kids should live."

L - "... ." *changes subject quickly*

Keep your eye on the prize. You are doing the best you can with what the professionals are giving you to work with. Only eleven more years... .

Courts rely greatly on policies, procedures and whatever.  Continuances are almost automatic the first time or two.  Court seldom considers any issue as 'urgent'.  It's hard enough for them to Find something 'actionable'.   I'm thinking the court defaulted to No because it doesn't like to deal with maybes, only events?  Or it really hates to stop major holiday visits?

If the new schedule isn't in place yet, then do you revert to the preexisting schedule?  (That is, unless the response to the ex parte was setting it's own schedule.)  If stuck with the preexisting schedule then at least make sure Ex doesn't abuse that old schedule.  If she violates that too, then more Contempt of Court paperwork.  Shouldn't hurt to get another 'parking ticket' levied against her, I would think.

Back in 2005 my then-spouse had a pending Threat of DV case in another court yet was awarded temp custody in domestic court after we answered one simple question about our work schedules.  Yes, DV is an adult behavior, but surely the magistrate could have delved into that at least a little bit, would that have been too much to ask?  Scroll forward to 2013, we had 2 full days in court and finally one of her behaviors got fully documented through recordings of exchanges and exchange attempts.  The decision remarked several times that "Mother disparaged Father" in our son's presence.  It also noted mother's problems with the schools.  As happened in the 3 prior settlements or decisions, Mother lost something, this time she lost equal time during the school year.  Well, the order came out just before Winter Break ended.  (Last court day of the year, maybe magistrate didn't want the 17 month case held open any longer?)  I figured I'd promptly have the new schedule.  Wrong.  Mother refused saying it wasn't official yet. Sure enough, my lawyer said since mother was delaying as long as she could, we had to wait until the Objection* period was past.  Finally, after about 2 weeks, the Court filed a paper that neither party had Objected and she started following the order.  Why in the world didn't the magistrate include a paragraph stating that there was basis for the new schedule to start immediately and if the order was objected to then the new schedule would remain in place temporarily until the objection was resolved?

* Depending on the action, the post-order waiting period may be called Objection, Motion to Reconsider, Appeal, etc.

She gets the money from her parents retirement fund. They cut her off, then she goes pro per for a while, then she continues to lose whatever she's asking for and then some and then she guilts her parents into giving her money for an attorney based on them losing their grand daughter if she continues to lose.

I don't believe even once she has ever been told by her parents to stop this nonsense and obey the order. They probably never see the actual reports or orders and take her word for everything.

Her new attorney apparently is a scorched earth type. Who will most likely fight as hard as she wants until the money runs out. We have one of the very best L around and he's concerned about this new L being a good advocate for BPDm. She clearly doesn't have the whole story and wrote some things in her declaration that are just plain false, which she must have taken on faith of BPDm's word. She'll learn that won't work out going forward.

I'm just so tired of her playing the best victim you ever met. The judge must think she is getting the shaft in some way to let her continue this mental abuse at SD's expense. Which means he believes her story to some degree. But I can't figure out why. Her own T isn't siding with her on the no contact, supervised visit thing. There are so many professionals in the mix here, how can they all be railroading BPDm?

Wow, that's horrible.  I can't believe her parents enable an adult woman's poor behavior.  They sound like the mom of the "affluenza" kid.

Going to court in a few hours. It will be decided if judge is willing to order the mediation report as judgement.

No one has seen such a harsh report come back from court investigator before here so it's anyone's guess whether judge will be brave enough to forge a new path. If he does it could mean some movement in the court system towards truly protecting the children in these high conflict custody cases, a big win for those of us dealing with BPD parents on the other side that won't comply with orders, or do the right thing for the children.

Please cross your fingers, or whatever it is you do  to send good thoughts our way.

We are so worn out by all this, I should be going to the dr today not in court, but of course BPDm's drama takes priority.

I would love to start our new year with a reorganizing of that priority: putting our family first.

Will update later!

Crossing fingers, toes, and everything else that you can put this part behind you.

Wishing you good luck!

My L told me that I received my court ruling (termination of visitation, full custody) because my son was shown to be "at risk" for mental and psychological illness.

You may have the mixed blessing of having a child who is fragile enough that the courts actually do what's necessary.  

That seems to be the consensus LnL that SD is in fact showing more and more signs already of taking on moms BPD behaviours and methods of operations. Which is why T wants to get her out of there to see if we can reverse or even stop the "programming".

 and THANKS guys! I'm gonna be holding every good thought with me today in court.

Best wishes!

Wishing you and your family all the best   Hope it goes your way today.

Panda39

Chalk one up for the good guys. It was a struggle but the judge ruled in our favor.

We picked up SD ( after much drama by mom of course) and she is now in our care with no contact for at least the next 120 days. Thank you Dr.Warshack.

I am looking forward to this long over due break from moms drama, and for SD to be able to stabilize in a safe and peaceful home environment.

Thanks for all your wishes and prayers guys

That's great news! It must feel great to get finally get some action from the court.

Your are dealing with a particularly entitled BPDm. (Even my DH's ex will at least follow most of the court order as she understands it.) Remember that any violation of this 120 day ruling should be thoroughly documented and a request made to the judge to further extend it.  The very first people in need of a copy of this order is SD's school.

Did the judge say anything about what is supposed to happen after the 120 days? You said something before about supervised visitation.

I'm so happy to hear your good news.  I hope you'll keep us posted on how things go moving forward.  I'd be interested to hear how your SD does through all of this.

Wishing you peace and healing during this 4 month respite from BPDm. 

Panda39

What a relief to go through all that and have the judge actually abide by the recommendation.

How did SD take the news?

After my ex lost custody and visitation, I worried about him being a flight risk so I filed the custody order at S14's school. His school had a resource officer and an electronic sign-in/sign-out system, and both would activate an alert if ex tried to remove S14 from school.

Nothing ever happened, thankfully.

Congratulations to SD7!

After 120 days, supervised visits. We are to do a mini CE with the same guy as last year in the interim.

I am guessing BPDm will in fact violate the order as she was told by the judge yesterday to have no further contact with SD and inform dad where SD was so he could pick her up from there. She was at grandmothers house. She was not supposed to go there, but she did. She raced right over to SD and then refused to answer the door when we got there. We had to call police, they called her cell and said they were coming over but she should immediately release SD. She sent grandparents out with SD, they were calling me some choice words ( not sure why I was targeted) and taking pictures of us loading SD into car. SD was sobbing and saying she missed her mom, she kept saying that we had ruined the fun night her mom had planned, but couldn't say what those plans were. All in all we spent about 45 minutes in grandparents driveway wondering what was going on in there. It wasn't easy.

Judge didn't give any detailed instructions, we are going to have to wing it. He was so over whelmed by the pit bull of an attorney she brought that we didn't want to add anything, and I think our L made the right decision. Get the no contact in place and deal with the rest later.

Is SD7 seeing a counselor?

Maybe it would be best if counseling is written into a court order, with the counselor appointed by the judge.

SD7 might benefit from a consistent, long-term relationship with someone she can trust and talk openly about everything - not just one side or the other.

SD has been in weekly or bi monthly therapy since turning three. Depending on how she's doing. She is now 7.

Having a child be in therapy for four years was one of the reasons they finally looked into this with some concern for SD, not just moms demands.

T says she has never seen any child this long. Mom is also court ordered to see Her own T.

Still can't believe we finally caught a break. We are all ( including SD) just a little lighter today. Like a weight has been lifted.

Nope had some great suggestions. The school needs to know.

Document the pick up at grandmothers house. Documenting the next 120 days may be important for later.

The court ordered mom to have her own T. If she doesn't that should also help SD after the 120.

Congrats. Sounds like things are starting to turn for the better.

Also, if SD has difficulty understanding the judge is the one that decided this. Whenever our boys questioned things I always "blamed" the judge. I explained that both mom and I had to follow the order or we could get in trouble. This was one of the things that helped counter ex's alienation tactics against me.

I agree with David, we also referred everything back to the court when SS15 - then 13 asked.  Congratulations, I remember how crazy it was

when my DH won emergency custody.  uBPDm was sentenced to a year in jail.  After we spent an hour getting SS out of school, she began

calling the house over and over again screaming not to take him that her public defender was filing paperwork to stop the custody switch.

All this from jail.  The boys were crying and trying to pack, as she had not let them before, and we were all scared somebody would show up

and tell us we couldn't have them.  We got them packed and calmed down with the help of their maternal aunt, and by the next day the stress

had mostly evaporated. Her other sister flew in on a red eye, and her family had a BBQ for us to thank us for stepping in.  Craziness, now it's

just a memory.  SS15 does his time with her and then comes home to his family.  He's a different kid.

I am so happy to log in and see this! Congratulations bravhart1 and family! I was optimistic that this would work out in your favor.

How is SD7 doing?