BPDFamily.com

    I just heard this weird thing from my ex that is been in contact with me for a month and a half ago , he fiancée told her she should marry me instead seriously  lol

Amazing how things go when the mask is down , any thoughts ?

Only thought is that we are all messed up in some ways.  The ex-boyfriend probably is, too.  That is obvious lashing out, telling her she isn't good enough for him in undertones or that you handle her better.  One or the other.  Neither is good.  I should talk, I'm terrible at communicating/validating with my ex-gf.

What I am learning in this process is that I am as disordered as she is in many ways.  I fear abandonment.  Mostly from my kids.  Some with her(she already left saying that I would leave/hurt/abandon her)  I do realize that I can't control it, though.  Not with the kids.  Not with her.

Drama triangle. You're the rescuer, he's the persecutor, she's (as always) the victim.

Don't get sucked in.

Apart from the dysfinctionality of that, what are your thoughts? Or more importantly, your feelings?

That sounds passive aggressive to me... .I would say don't pick it up.

Knowing my story with the ex for five years and what I have learned from this awesome site ,  I have handled communication with her in the last two months in a much better way ,Validation, listening not telling her what to do not trying to fix her either , that drove her to wanting to fix herself.

The result was very successful. with me validating her emotions and not pushing , she regained her trust in me , I agree with whoever said we are all disfunctual in our own way , I do still have strong feelings for her , she had realized that blaming and being that she is the victim is getting old, she wants to change , she is getting older ,40 and I am also .

Every situation is unique , what I went through with her for five years isn't all her fault , it was mine also , I don't think it would get any worth but better , I feel it from my gut, in a way I abanded her when I asked her to leave , she had no where to go , do I blame her from moving in with another guy, no ! it's the survival mode that not only BPD has we also do .

What is your take on that ?

Call me a cynic but to me it sounds like he dumped her and she has said what she did to try and make you feel as if you are more important to her and the reason it didn't work with her and her ex was because you where still a huge thing for her.

Enlighten me

I agree he did ... .

I predicted that a while ago as we all do ,

Now is that a bad or a good thing ?

The question is what you want to do about it?

I want to give it my best shot , she knows I educated myself about the illness , and I am still learning ... .

She is hesitant of coming back , she isn't taking the first flight back to me , I know well my situation and how she thinks , she knows what await for her ,a future and also financial security and one person that knows her inside out and willing to help her out coop better , and she is willing to do so , not any amount of money you throw her way to reconcile with me I know that for a fact .I helped her get her meds for Dec and that's it .she has not even a buck to her name .

As when I asked her to leave in the past, numerous times when my patience ran out and did not know how to separate the illness from the person  ,it took her a while before she did leave ,btw there was no replacement set up. I magine she will on her time , I cannot force her .

In the last two months of communication , I made sure to let her know that I give myself till the end of this year to decide what she wants if not  , I will not be in contact with  her in 2016 . It's my ultimatum not hers ,I have to draw a line there , I am in the driver seat now don't you think ?

ok, if you want to work on it, then probably working on it, rather than making big leaps right now, is more likely to get the outcome you are hoping for.

It's really easy to get caught up in the drama and excitement of the BPD whirlwind.

What happens if you simply continue as you have been. Calm and stable, continuing to support?

Is she asking for an answer?

Maybe a good one would be, "I am so glad you are here, and let's see what we can work towards together."

She is totally grateful that I am here , helping her out , but till when ?

I had to let her know that by the end of the year I won't  ... .so she doesn't think I will be financing her while still staying at his place .

Am I rushing her do you think ?

I think you're fooling yourself.  She's obviously in a bad place, no money and a relationship that's ending and there you are offering to be her savior.  Of course she's going to say the things you want to hear, she's in a desperate position.  She's not going to fix her problem herself, and you can't fix her, and no matter how you change your words and actions, her emotional dysfunction will ultimately come out in words and actions that if you get back together with her will cause you future disappointment and pain.  I see the only hope is if she is willing and sincere about going to therapy (DBP), and hopefully you know this too and see that she follows through with it.

You said she wanted to fix herself. What has she done in this direction?

No , not yet but she says she wants to get therapy .

Ok, so she hasn't actually taken any action yet.

You and I are in the same boat.

I am also waiting for my pwBPD to take action.



I've gone from undecided, to staying and then back to undecided.

Do you have firm boundaries with her?

No she is still in another state , when I asked her to leave my place it took her a year or more to leave , I gave myself till the end of this year she contacted me on this past Nov 15 , I still don't get a definite answer from her as  when is she planning to come back , Tonight I asked her that . time is running out and I won't want to have anything to do with her I did better before she contacted me 45 days ago , I switch around from board to board lately I need some advice she said she will call me in the morning .

You and I are in the same boat and you are welcome to read my most recent thread, is this borderline behavior?

The best thing you can do is stand firm in your boundaries.

I have read what the others have said.

I agree it is probably a bad idea to let her move back in with you at this point.

Can you define the boundaries you have with her?

Can you please suggest some boundaries ?

Let me read through your posts again and respond to them, but off the top of my head, I would not recommend letting her move in with you. Have you read any of the articles about healthy relationships? It recommends not being someone's knight in shining armor, that is not financially supporting them. That could be the first boundary.

This is where I think you could set up a boundary.

Has she ever lived independently?

Does she have income sources?

I would not get in a relationship with her until she achieved those goals.

You could be friends with her.

Again the financial issue. I would not financially support her if I was you. I don't think that is a good idea. You said she was almost 40. She should be able to financially support herself at this point in her life and if she is not able to then she needs to get help in doing so. So a boundary could be you could remain friends while she is getting her finances in order. That is just one idea.

Your boundaries are based 100 percent on your own personal ... well... I have seen many experienced posters say they are based on your values.

You cross over into her "stuff" when you start ultimatums spoken to her.

You made an ultimatum. At this point she has 2 days to ante up or you will remove yourself.

Your personal boundary could be " I will not financially support a woman who is living with another man."  Her reason for being there is a love relationship. It feels icky to me ( my own value).

Do you feel ok supporting her if she moves out, finds a place closer to you?

I am still having problems with boundary stuff, too, so that is the best I can give you on them atm.

nope never lived  independently , no source of income , I would not financially support her in the new coming year while living with another man .Firm .

i can't be friends with her either at this time maybe in years .

A place near me , possible .

I am contemplating not to speak with her for thirty days and see what that would bring , i have nothing more to add to what i spoke about ?

She has never financially supported herself and she is 40?

Just a thought: if you can't be friends with her, how can you be in a relationship with her?

In my relationship I am willing to be friends with my partner while he sorts his divorce out. If you are not willing to be even friends with a person how can you build a relationship with them?

guy4caligirl. the only time that you are in the driver seat with a BPD is going complete no contact. her boyfriend dumped her and now she is looking for narcissistic supply by contacting you. for a BPD person a partner/ex-partner is just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required... just stay away.

You raised a good question here Unicorn , I might have to think of it  , it just torturing myself  to be only friends .

I can't put my emotion on the side while she is living with someone else .

So if you can not be friends with her then I suggest you look at a new boundary, no or low contact while she is living with someone else.

All the advice sounds great if you are referencing a person without BPD but let's be realistic here.  She has BPD and it's very typical for them to be financially dependent on others which is exactly this case as a 40 yr old woman.  Her current living condition is because she has no other place to go and she will not all of a sudden be financially independent and be able to get her own place and be self sufficient. She's in a desperate situation and if guy4caligirl doesn't come through for her, she will find another option, maybe another guy she starts a relationship with and move in with him.  Unless she has a family member that would take her in, giving her an ultimatum to move out without providing a means of support will cause her to have to find somebody else or fix and stay in her current relationship. 

So guy4caligirl if you want to be with her then accept that you will take care of her financially and I suggest stipulations she goes to therapy and gets a job, at least part time.  Do this where you are protected in a way to get out of it graciously if she doesn't follow through on her end.  The other choice is to get over her and move on. 

Nicely put Steve , she already have a job that she loves with me in her girly girl world!

This is what she text a few minutes ago she goes :

" That's the problem ! I live in a constant state of confusion , I am used to this -Pro-no one else  sees through my flawed view "

I just texted with her today after it got hot yesterday , by bringing in the negative past again like if her present is so blissful ! Ha

she texted and apologize for her behavior .This is what she text a few minutes ago she goes :

" That's the problem ! I live in a constant state of confusion , I am used to this -Pro-no one else  sees through my flawed view "



For my own sake , and moving on or staying I gently told her that she needs to make her mind up and think of it this way , a year and a half went by and here we are still in touch , I narrowed it down  to if you  can move on and not communicate and depend financially on me  anymore the best of luck to you and me limbo living isn't healthy starting the new year . 

Living in limbo absolutely sucks! 

For me just being aware and realistic of the situation is the best way you can make a rationale choice based on realistic expectations and set realistic boundaries.  You know your past with her and how she is with her words and actions and unless she has therapy, she won't change.  You can change yourself, learn validation/empathy, learn to not take things so serious, and have realistic expectations if you do get back together.  Changing your actions can help avert some of the outbursts and reduce the intensity of some of the worst situations, and reduce some of your anxiety, but your relationship won't ever be normal where you live happily ever after.  There will be chaos but maybe the times of pleasure will outweigh the times of pain.  Only you can know that so the choice can only be yours.

Can you really accept her being out of your life completely?  If you can answer "Yes" to that question then the choice is easy (i.e. move on) however, if you care too much for her then you should be thinking of how to make things work out and be realistic about it. 

Can you really accept her being out of your life completely?  If you can answer "Yes" to that question then the choice is easy (i.e. move on) however, if you care too much for her then you should be thinking of how to make things work out and be realistic about it.

That's what it boils down to ... .A perfect self examining question an example for all of as trying to reconcile !

What if I do and she doesn't want to reconcile even at this time  , could be a fabrication of a story,  to perhaps she is just hanging on to me if a sudden kick out  happens  ?

I am not going to be vulnerable for her to jump into my net . I think in a day or two I will find out if she's using me to get her fiancée to hang on to her , you never know with these people what would they do and how many people they can crush to obtain their victim and suck life out of it ?

Your thoughts are at least realistic.  Does it really upset you or even make a difference to think that she may go with you because her current relationship is in chaos, she may be kicked out and you can meet her immediate needs?  I really doubt that she is consciously looking to make you a victim and suck the life out of you, though actions of pwBPD seem like that.

Let's say she's just keeping you as an option to get back with when she does get kicked out. So if it's two days or a month when she wants to get back with you, why should that make a difference?

If you're thinking that if she goes back to you within a day or two that means she truly loves you with all her heart and soul and that you will have a normal relationship with her and live happily ever after, then you are being completely dillusional. 

Don't forget about her emotional dysfunction.  Your past relationship history with her will repeat unless you do something different.  You can't do the same things and expect different results.  You can change you, your responses and emotions, use validation/empathy, learn to ignore things and not take them personal, have realistic expectations, get her in therapy (DBT specifically), don't do anything to put yourself in a bad position (like getting married right away).  Have you thought if the benefits outweigh the negatives?  Have you realistically thought about how your relationship will be or are still thinking of a fantasy?

pwBPD don't love like non's, their love is not consistent, their fear of abandonment may cause them to look for other options or worse, or they may break up as a pre-emptive strike if their irrationale thoughts get them thinking you may abandon them first.  Only you know her history which is a precurser to the future unless something drastic changes. 

If you really feel this way about this woman, why would you want to restore an intimate relationship with her?

That feeling is a poison pill to any relationship.

My own inability to be confident my ex is not about to take huge advantage of me, take me for granted, deceive and manipulate me ... .is why I'm not engaged with him at this juncture.  There are things that might restore my confidence in those departments,  but they haven't occurred, so -- we're apart.

I don't see how you can maintain simultaneously that you think she is capable of misusing you in such a way, indeed, have suspicions that she is -- and be open to resuming the relationship.

Very simple explanation.  It's all about love, the need to be loved and to receive love and the pwBPD sure know how to give it when they want.  The expression "Love is blind" is so true.

What does it mean to "love" someone you can say such things about, though?

I wasn't literally asking how people can stay with people they feel so badly about.  I know how it works and I have done it myself (FOG is a big part of the answer).  I am trying to elevate the question to "SHOULD one restore a r/ship with another person about whom one has those views?"

i have to agree with patientandclear, why would you want to be with someone that unable to reciprocate love but only looking for narcissistic supply in a relationship.

Well they did reciprocate love at one time and it was intense, and you desire to feel that again, and if they go back with you, you will feel it again, at least for a little time. 

We have to ask ourselves, though, what does it say about us if we desire to feel "love" from someone whom we view as capable of sucking the life out of "victims?"  Of "crushing" people they are engaging romantically?  Of using us to manipulate others?

I'm not saying this IS true of the OP's pwBPD.  I'm saying if he believes it is -- what's behind the idea of reuniting?  How can you genuinely try to build a relationship with someone you feel that way about?  Or is this about something else -- rectifying an ego wound, trauma bonding, winning ... .?

I agree with this post. I think you have to have fundamental faith in the goodness of a person to be able to continue with them. In my case my former therapist said my former husband had sociopathic traits.

My current partner's borderline or narcissistic traits are much easier to deal with in comparison, for me, and don't obscure his fundamental goodness as a human being, to me. I had a very hard time seeing the goodness in my ex husband. That's not a good position to be in with anyone, where they do so much damage to you that you can no longer see the fundamental human goodness in them. Since I was married to him it was and is a lot harder to break free of his effect on me. I would think very deeply on whether or not you want to marry a disordered person and if you discover you don't want to marry this person then I would think very deeply on why you are with her.

steve195915 that was not love that they reciprocated at one time, but in fact it was the first phase(idealization phase) of the three phases during the relationship.you thought it was love because that is what your BPD partner conditioned you to feel, it was a part of their seduction plan to get you hooked so they could move to phase 2(devaluation phase) and start their emotional assault against you. BPD bandy about the word love but they are pathological liars they do not mean it when they say it. it is not love that you felt for your BPD partner instead it was an addiction, obsession, and infatuation, try to drop the word LOVE from your vocabulary it will make you stronger and wholesome and helps you with your recovery process from a highly toxic relationship...

Idealization phase , or devaluation phase that is not necessarily a common behaviors of a BPD neither is cheating ... .

It's not carved in stones , lying and acting is .

Some are not worth the try but some are , it all depends on what you know and feel there are no generalized rule of conduct ,

Gut feeling is what comes first ... .

Sure sounds like you have some serious issues to deal with.  Sounds as though you've been burnt pretty badly and you're full of anger and hate but you'll have to let that go to get fully recovered and find true peace. 

Let me educate you about BPD.  pwBPD are not calculating, they know nothing of phases, they don't condition us to feel love, and they don't have seduction plans. They aren't geniuses that know how to manipulate our minds, rather they have the emotional maturity of a child.  They can feel love though it's not consistent as they equate love with the ultimate pain of abandonment thus the push/pull, the lying, looking for other options or cheating. Sure it seems like their actions are calculating and manipulative but you're giving them way too much credit. 

Also someone that's completely normal can fall in love with a pwBPD.  Sure some of us on here have co-dependency or other issues.  Some of us may have the caregiver type of personality but that can be a good attribute.  Thats for us to figure out.  Each one of us is unique with a unique relationship with a pwBPD with each pwBPD having different intensity of their emotional dysfunction and exhibiting differing traits.   

As for me I'm well on my recovery and yes I did love my BPDex and I still do.  I have contact with her often and it's all positive.  I understand her illness, I know what to expect, and I also know I can never marry her or be in a committed relationship with her and thats ok.

Each one of us has to recover in our own way but carrying anger and hate will never allow us to fully recover.  I wish you the best in you're recovery.

Many of us were always in the driver's seat even if we didn't realize it. BPD, our FOO, whatever, we are all adults, reposible for our choices.

So are you really done?

I am not done as of yet , I am slowing down as It makes me to see better how things evolve and i act accordingly  , it's not a case of " she has no one to go or return to"  if she isn't welcome where she is now .

She needs guideness not financial aid , she needs a home not a shelter, she is a beautiful mess still looking for herself in the mid of her constant turmoil .No drinking no drugs no multiple partners , Most important is her wanting to get better and seek therapy , she will , i think she reached the point and knows the change is not for others only but it start within her first . 

Guy4caligirl, are you treating this woman like an equal? From my point of view it sounds like you are looking at her as someone beneath you, not in a narcissistic way on your part, but as an adult looks at a child. She is 40 years old. Do you think this is a healthy position to take in an adult relationship?

English isn't my native language , I know sometimes I can get things out in a not so diplomatic way , but I am  :)

BPD is a disorder that's sometimes forces the patient to get  stuck in an early arrested child development  .

Yes she is the age she is , what I meant is to help her out from making poor choices , for her own sake , she trust my judgment, and knows well that I care for her well being , nothing is wrong with helping someone else financially or guideness in a respectful way . Does that make sense to you Unicorn ? 

guy4caligirl, did you know your PM inbox is full so no one can send you any messages?

No , I will clean it up now

thanks Steve  :)

Guy4caligirl I would encourage you to take your focus off your partner and put it on yourself, if I may. We don't know what causes BPD but we do know what the symptoms are, however we can't treat them, all we can do is take care of ourselves. Have you asked yourself why you want to be in a relationship with someone with BPD?

Believe me I did for  the last year  and a half , and I am still learning ... .

I think you need to read more about what causes BPD it's all over this site   :)

I can multitask and take care of others I was born this way , I am happy with myself and I hope you are too .

As far as your question about why I want to be with a BPD( They also belong to planet earth btw ) ,this site won't exist anymore if we don't want to be with our beloved BPD

cali I know a lot about BPD, from before I came to this site. Forgive me if I may, I know English is your second language, your attitude sounds a bit patronizing towards people with BPD. They are not children, nor are they stuck in the developmental phase of children. Its far more complicated then that.

I wish you well in your relationship.