BPDFamily.com

I once had a thread here about key or defining moments in my life. A lot of that discussion had to do with acceptance, acceptance of the current reality but particularly acceptance of the past and how this has shaped the current reality.

A part of 'radical acceptance' is accepting that everything has a cause. Everything happened for a reason, we might not know what the reason is but there's still a reason. Things did not just happen magically. This however isn't always easy to accept. It's way easier to accept positive things, also easy then to not even think about or question why that good thing happened to you. It's much harder though with negative events.

I'm turning things around here and looking at some of the key or defining moments in my uBPD mother's life. Yes she is BPD and her behavior has been quite problematic, yet things didn't just get the way they are. People with BPD often have an intense fear of abandonment and what's the worst thing that can happen then? Actual abandonment and loss.

The most significant defining moment in my mother's live was the death of my grandmother. This was before I and my siblings were borne. My mother has never gotten over the loss of her own mother. My grandmother got seriously ill which was very tough. She got better though and was declared healthy which was amazing, yet only a few years later she got sick again and this time the doctors said they couldn't do anything to help her. This was devastating news and when my grandmother died, my mother was just in her mid twenties. Her father had already died many years before and wasn't a solid father figure anyway.

Based on all accounts, not just from my mother but also other family-members, it seems my grandmother (amazingly) was in Wise Mind most of the time. I think my mother probably already had developed BPD back then but that my grandmother had a stabilizing influence on her. Perhaps my grandmother sensed that my mother was different and intuitively knew that a Wise Mind approach was necessary.

Whether the BPD was present from the start or not, it seems obvious that the illness, recovery, illness again and then death of my grandmother, massively triggered the BPD traits in my mother. That and also other major losses/abandonments. When my mother was expecting her first child, my BPD sister, she was abandoned by my sister's father. He left to another country without notice and abandoned my mother and their unborn child. He knew that she was pregnant, he just didn't care and left without saying anything.

This are major life events which have significantly impacted my mother and altered the course of her life. These events if not the source of her intense fear of abandonment, were definitely things that strongly increased that fear.

As irrational as the fear of abandonment often might seem looking at it from a 'rational' perspective, I've come to realize that at least in some cases it's totally real in my mother's mind. In that other thread about key moments, I talked about a double Witch attack on Mother's Day a few years ago when both my uBPD sis and mom completely lost it. All out Witch attack (particularly by my sister) and major dysregulation in my mother for weeks afterwards. My mother did not know how to deal with the situation and neither did I, she perceived my attitude as rejection which sparked her fear of abandonment. This greatly frustrated and angered me and I went downstairs to confront her, only to find her sitting there crying and in distress. The distress was real, I could tell her fear was genuine, though irrational. This also was a defining moment for me because I realized that she wasn't behaving problematically that day because she was intending to hurt me, she was actually in distress and did not possess the tools to deal with things in a a constructive manner and soothe herself. I now see this was a significant turning point for me too, I had not found bpdfamily yet but looking back I see I was able to empathize with her, change my (initially intended) responses and validate the valid. As hard as the BPD reality can be to accept, it is what it is and the only way to effectively deal with reality is by first accepting it. We indeed really cannot change anything if we don't first accept that thing is real.

Some reflections *)

Wow Kwamina, that's amazing! I definitely see witch traits in my mother, I just started that chapter in UTBM. I really appreciate the clarity of your writing. I'm still recovering from what my mother did on Christmas Eve, starting some drama by claiming I was staying home brokenhearted and painting and then the next day going on about how great my ex husband is and conveniently forgetting that he was the one who broke my heart, not my current partner. Obviously I'm still mad at my mom for starting that rumor because it spread to my dad, brother and daughter. I don't know which of the BPD mothers start rumors, but based on what I've read, I'd say that was a queen trait. Would you agree?

Despite everything, your emapthy (and love?) for you mother shines through. On whatever board we land here, it's a realization that despite whatever abuse we or the pwBPD in our lives endured, inherent emotional resilience can be a factor. My mom's older sister was similarly abused by their father, but didn't end up BPD, or with depression that I ever learned of.

Whether inborn, or learned, the Parrot Power shines through... :)

I keep remembering what my T said, "sometimes the strong are chosen to protect the weak." As frustrating as it may be, accept that you are strong, as is everyone who lands here...

Your are fortunate to have some family history.

I have often wondered how far back my mother's illness is, but her FOO refuses to talk about it. They maintain vigorously that there is nothing wrong with her. They don't communicate with me much now since I don't go along with that, but before that, I would receive emails from them telling me how wonderful she is, and if I asked about family history, they reveal nothing.

My father's side of the family has recently said that she was already very disturbed even at my parents' wedding. However, that was a long time ago and their memories are not as sharp about details. What I do know is that my father's mother disliked my mother from the get go, and after they were married, my parents had little contact with my father's family.

A twist of fortune came when we were older. During summers, Mom could not deal with kids home all day, so they sent us to stay with my father's family for extended times, and so we got to know them, and are still close to them. But being distant from my mother, they don't have much to tell me.

My mothers family is very enmeshed and narcissistic. They are also very accomplished, all of them, men and women as well and they make it clear that they are accomplished. My mother on the other hand is not. I see that while they tell me she is "wonderful" they act patronizing and disdainful to her. They are very clannish and you have to be "one of them" to be accepted by them. Growing up, we kids were treated as "not one of them".

Seeing my mother in the context of her FOO made me actually feel sorry for her. While they appear to be building her up, they are actually condescending to her. She is always worried about what they will think or say. If they come over, everything has to be perfect. She feels she has to impress them. It is really sad. I would think it was hard to grow up in that family and I suspect, a lot harder than I know.

Hi unicorn2014, Turkish and Notwendy

Thanks for your responses!


Yeah ever since I developed Parrot Vision a few years ago, I'm able to see everything way more clearly now  In the words of the poet Emily Dickinson, "I measure every grief I meet with analytic eyes; I wonder if it weighs like mine, or has an easier size. I wonder if they bore it long, or did it just begin? I could not tell the date of mine, it feels so old a pain."


I think the Waif, Hermit and Queen are all capable of starting rumors. Although the result may be that rumors get started, this however does not necessarily always have to be the intent of the Waif, Hermit, or Queen's action. Sometimes it's just a question of feelings equating to facts. Other times it's a result of poor coping mechanisms. Having said that, this of course does not change the fact that rumors can get started as a result of certain action, whether this was the intent behind that action or not. Considering the profile of the Queen, it does seem more likely that she would engage in this type of behavior with the specific intent of starting rumors to hurt someone.

The Witch is a different story altogether. This type seems completely out of control with one aim: taking out the other person by any means necessary. You are reading the chapter now so you'll (soon) know what I mean.


I do indeed have empathy and in spite everything do care about my mother very much. It is what it is, I got damaged but I did survive and now that I'm an adult and have learned about BPD I can start healing myself and make the necessary changes. Parrot Power all the way! :)


I too think a lot about what your T said to you. He is a very wise man. Only the strong are able to bear the infirmities of the weak. Also when I look back at my family tree it seems that my grandmother was exactly the right mother for my mother. It seems she was ready to receive that particular child. And my grandmother had gone through her own heartaches too because she actually would have had more children before my mother but they all were either stillborn or died in infancy. This hurt her deeply but she managed to get through and was ready to be a mother to my mother.


The way you describe the dynamics in your mother's side of the family, brings the Karpman Triangle to mind. It seems your mother's family are all operating from a 'one-up' position while your mother has been cast and/or has cast herself in a 'one-down' position. This is sad indeed and it sounds like they've been doing this dance of dysfunction for a very long time now and are totally resistant to anyone making a change. That's probably also one of the reasons you kids were treated 'as not one of them'. They might have felt threatened by you and how you could rock the dysfunctional family dynamics that they were so desperately trying to keep in place. You may not know how far back your mother's illness goes, but you definitely have been able to identify the dysfunctional context in which her illness has developed.

A turning point for me was having sympathy for her. Most of my childhood, I resented how she treated us. Yet, I feel very sad for the child she was growing up in that family. I don't believe she was ever abused in the classical sense. They were well to do, and I am sure she was well taken care of.

She feels constantly invalidated. This family is invalidating. They speak about themselves but don't seem to listen. One habit they have is calling in between things they have to do " Hi, I called between meetings" then if I start talking they say " well gotta go because my client is here". They seem to call when they have nothing else to do and hang up when something better than talking to you comes along. One doesn't get the sense that they have time for you- that you are a last priority to them.

They do it with the grandkids too. Their grandkids are the best of the best. We stepped out of that one a long time ago. I don't even talk about my kids much with my mother so not to get into the competition. My kids don't even hear it, and that side of the family rarely contacts us anyway.

I don't know if my mother had a disorder or her FOO created it by invalidating her. The most important part I think is being able to have compassion for her. That would be a tough situation to grow up in.  Although our BPD mothers have hurt us, in many cases, someone has hurt them too. Our job is to do all we can to interact with everyone in an emotionally healthy way and not pass this dysfunction on.

While it has taken awhile, I do have  more empathy for my mother than I did when I first learned about BPD. However, I think a lot of her abandonment issues are more about perception than reality. For example, her two older siblings went to school in a rural one room schoolhouse and often missed school in the winter due to snow. My mother was seen as a piano prodigy and was sent to boarding school in town, in part so she could have a better education and not have to worry about how to get to and from school. This would've cost the family a pretty penny, and they were farmers. She sees it as being sent away, not wanted. I totally get that her feelings are very real and true to her. However when I talk with other family members, I think her family was really trying to give her a leg up. She claims she did not enjoy playing piano and felt pressured.  In fact, her sibs felt a little resentment that she got a better deal. She even got a new car, a French convertible… In the middle of the snowy cold Midwest. That's extravagant.  So I have an impression that she was a spoiled brat who had her father wrapped around her finger, not the abandoned unwanted child she says she was.

Thank you Kwamina your reply was very insightful.

I'm still mad at my mother for defending my ex and not sticking up for me.

She used to do that when I was a kid, defend the other kid when I got picked on.

She hasn't changed a bit.

I got to spend some time with my ex this weekend so I got to see why I didn't want to be with him anymore. He hasn't changed, I have, he's not a bad person, he's just not right for me.

I wrote a bit about him on the coparenting board.

Then there's my narcissistic dad.

I don't know where to write about him.

This is the board for family members, unicorn. Start a new thread about narcissistic dad and let's talk about it  :)

T

Ok Turkish I will because something awful, and typical, happened today.

Thank you

Busybee- perception is interesting. My mother's point of view is that of being a victim, even of people's kindness to her. That's the part that seems so frustrating because we can't change the wiring in someone's thinking. Sometimes it feels as if whatever is said or done goes down that rabbit hole of being attacked, invalidated, hurt.

In ways I can see how my mother was also indulged- nice clothes, education, and admired as she was a very pretty child and young woman. But that can be part of the illusion. We kids were also well taken care of. We had clothing, a nice home, and for that I am grateful. But nobody would guess that we came home from school to a possibly raging mother, and we were not allowed to speak of it.

I think it is possible to both materially indulge a child and emotionally abuse the child too.

Hi  Kwamina - thank you for this great thread!

Here’s my mother's story, more or less, as she tells it. Her parents were married young- mother at  17, her father at 23 was just out of a divorce with his first wife and was alcoholic, severely diabetic and emotionally unstable with violent rages. Her mother supposedly became a heroin addict and prostitute soon after my mother was born and would hang her in the closet when she had men over for sex and sometimes include my mother in the activities. She also says her mother tried to kill her by drowning her and throwing her down the stairs.  When my mom was two, supposedly her dad walked in on her mom having sex with another man and took my mom away, wandering the streets for a period of time, sometimes staying with relatives, who were apparently all abusive to my mom.  Then at 2-1/2 or so she was placed in an orphanage. How long she stayed there is unclear, but she has vivid stories of beatings and being locked in a room alone with nothing to play with but a bee. There’s a lot of inconsistencies in the stories for the next few years, but she’s recently added a story about spending time in an “insane asylum” at age 4. When my mom was nine her dad married a good Christian woman who I now know to be kind and generous, but probably strict. They then had two children together, my mom’s half-sibs.  My mom tells a lot of very graphic stories of her dad abusing this woman (her stepmom) including holding a gun to her head, kicking her in the stomach and causing a miscarriage, loading the family into the car in an angry rage and saying her was going to drive off a cliff, getting angry when peas were served and throwing them on the floor and making her pick them up one by one, stabbing a knife into the table when he wasn’t happy with his steak. I have no idea if any of these things are true. My mother says she has paperwork, police reports, orphanage papers, hospital records  and such but she won’t let anyone see them because it’s too painful. I heard these stories over and over again in great detail starting in very early childhood and I never doubted any of them. I felt sad for her, and scared.

I am inspired by your posts, because you seem to have found peace in your relationship with your mom. Someday I am also hoping to get there. For the longest time I was so closely tied up with my mother's feelings that it went way beyond empathy. After having very little relationship with her for the past few years, now all I feel is repulsion when I do have to see her or even when I think about her. I want to get to a better place.

I have been following Turkish's story, and I applaud being able to care for your mother in your home. I can't imagine. But I am dreading the possibility in the future. My mother, like his is also an extreme hoarder. When that day comes it is going to be quite difficult. But I am hoping to get to a point that I can handle it as well as you.

Oh, absolutely. And this was true for my childhood--our material needs were met and on the outside, our family looked perfect. Appearances were everything. I'm sure my parents learned this from their FOO--it probably looked good to send a kid to boarding school and give her a car. I do often wonder if there was an event or something I don't know about (and I'm sure there's plenty, every family has skeletons in closets). But, it's interesting that what my mother says about her family/events I have attended/conversations I have heard and what I see with my own eyes is very different. I think she was born victim and one of those kids who was difficult to be around (and therefore rejected). It's sad and I have empathy for the fact she feels this way about even those trying to extend kindness to her, like your mother. It must feel awful to think no one wants you and to interpret interactions as negative when they are neutral or even positive.

Hi busybee1116  9

Thanks for joining the discussion.


It truly is sad when people interpret neutral or positive things in a negative way. This probably also has a lot to do with the expectations people have. If you expect bad things to happen, whenever something happens your first thought will likely be that it must be something bad.


Perception is interesting indeed. Here we have this one event, your mother being sent to boarding school but this is perceived in very different ways by the people involved:

- Her parents might have been trying to give her a better and continued education because they saw her as a prodigy (or perhaps they sent her there to 'keep up appearances' based on your second post)

- Your mother perceives it as being sent away because she wasn't wanted

- Her siblings felt she was being given a better deal than they were given

- You analyzing and looking back suspect your mother might have been spoiled by her parents (particularly her father)

One event, four different perceptions and all perspectives probably have at least some validity.

The point about being spoiled I find very interesting. My uBPD mom most definitely spoiled my uBPD sis and also my brother whom I'm NC with. They weren't spoiled in a material sense but more in an emotional sense. My uBPD sister was treated as if she was special, the all-good child, this caused or reinforced a huge sense of entitlement in her. There were no consequences for her problematic behavior so she thought she could do whatever she wanted to do (also to other people) and get away with it. My brother didn't have to do anything in the house when it comes to household choirs and he also didn't volunteer to do anything, he just expected things to be done by others for him and my mother was the one that totally enabled this. This emotional spoiling however has not served them well because they definitely have not grown into 'whole' or stable adults. My uBPD sis was raised in a world with fantasy rules which don't apply in the real world. This caused her to lose her job 5 years ago because she was violently slamming doors at work, violently slamming her hand on the table during meetings and the last straw was her screaming obscenities and saying she wished someone at work would jump of a high building and die. After that they were done with her.

Hi daughterandmom  

Thank you too for sharing your experiences.


This is a very painful history your mother has had. Even if only parts of her life-story are true, it's still pretty horrible what happened to her. I actually recognize elements of her story from other members here who had similar experiences. We've had members whose parents have tried to kill them (for instance by pushing them down the stairs) which is such a traumatic thing to experience as a child. If this did happen to your mother, I can imagine this would have greatly affected her. Do you know how old she was when her mother tried to kill her?

These stories made you feel sad for her which is understandable, I feel very sad (and angry) too when I read things like this happening to children. You also felt scared. What was is that scared you? Did the stories perhaps instill the fear in you that the world is unsafe and people cannot be trusted? Did you perhaps fear the things your mother was talking about could also happen to you?


For me finding peace is very much linked to acceptance of reality. In my case at least this is not a 'level' I have reached but more like something I continually need to work on. But as I work on it, acceptance does seem to get a bit easier, though it's still hard. Like Marsha Linehan said: "It is hard. It's really hard. All of us are still practicing this. This is not one of those things you're going to get perfect at. There's not going to be a day when you can say, 'Alright, I've got it; I've got it. I can radically accept. I turn the mind all the time and I'm willing.' That day is not going to come. This is the only set of skills that I teach that I would have to say just about everybody has to practice just about every day of their lives."


I've been following Turkish's story too :) Great inspiration, he leads by example.

I have learned a lot from being a part of this community and from all the amazing members here. Your own contributions daughterandmom have also been very inspiring to me as you are exploring difficult and painful subjects and that takes a lot of courage and strength. I know you've struggled with seeing certain things you've been through as abuse, you've also seen that the people who've responded to you do see it as abuse and really feel for you. The resilience you've shown in surviving your ordeal is also very inspiring and also your current journey of introspection and reflection. It takes a lot of heart to confront the past and also take a hard look at yourself. Your post are helpful to many other members (and lurkers). So thanks for sharing

Kwamina, it has been interesting to read the various stories in this post and also to see the different places each of us are in our ability to 'accept reality' as you've mentioned. I agree, it IS tough.

I too struggle with my reality of who my uBPDm was and why,  and also with aspects of my father's neglect and turning the other way when he should have protected us. I can certainly look back and say that the death of my uBPDm's mother at age 4 was probably the first key defining moment in her life. Or perhaps it goes back even a few years earlier, to her birth, because her mom became paralyzed during labor and never recovered. My mom grew up believing and being told that she had caused her mother's paralysis when in fact this took place from some medical condition, perhaps polio or guillain barre syndrome, but we don't know.

Critical defining moment number 2 was when her father married my uBPDm's stepmother. She was cruel, mean, and abusive to my mom, yet favorable to her own two children. She was most likely the wicked stepmother portrayed in Cinderella, probably a BPD herself. History repeated itself when mom raised my siblings and I.

The third critical defining moment was when my mom at age 17 was shot by a rejected lover. She nearly died. In the past 2 years I have opened up doors to communicate with long lost relatives, and I've spoken to her cousin (he's in his 80's now but I'm just getting to know him) and also to my aunt regarding that time in mom's life. My cousin says that mom changed dramatically at that point in her life, and that the nice 17 year old he knew was no more. I think she was already well programmed to BPD by that age, and the shooting brought things out in full force.

It does help to a certain extent to know that there are reasons why they are the way they are/were. I know I'm getting closer to that radical acceptance. For my siblings, I think one of them finds it much easier to accept than I, but she has not had the need to heal at this point in her life as much as I have. I think she was the GC, and as you pointed out, perspective has a tremendous influence over our view of life. We each see parts of the whole with different glasses on. It is what makes us unique individuals.

Wools

Hi Wools

Thanks for sharing your mother's story.


That's a huge burden to place on a child, making her responsible for her mother's paralysis. By telling her that, she was basically also made responsible for her mother's death 4 years later. Did her father tell her that she caused her mother's paralysis? Or was it (also) other family-members who said that to her?


It's sad that your mother had this difficult childhood. It isn't easy being treated that way by a stepmother and this can definitely seriously affect a child. Unfortunately your mother copied this dynamic she was a part of in the way she treated you and your siblings. It's very sad that she wasn't able to break this cycle of dysfunction. I am glad you have been able to choose a different path with your own family.

How was your mother's relationship with her father? Her stepmother abused her, but her father was there too of course and apparently was unable or unwilling to stop the abuse.


This is a truly horrible and traumatic experience. Being shot is traumatic enough by itself and then also being so seriously wounded that she almost died just makes it even worse. I can understand that this made a huge impact on your mother and greatly affected her. Given the events surrounding her mother's death and the way she was treated by her stepmother, it does seem likely that she already would have been struggling with certain issues before the shooting took place. But even if she had come out of her childhood without BPD (traits), this horrible event of being shot would likely still have severely traumatized and triggered her. Did your mother as far as you know ever get any help for dealing with this particular trauma caused by the shooting?

From the words my mother said for many years as I was growing up, whenever we visited my great aunt (her mother's sister), Aunt Agnes was the one who often repeated the story, leading my mom to believe this. When my great aunt died, she gave me a notebook with geneolgy papers from our family history, including the medical notes that my aunt had copied when her sister was in the hospital, at the birth of my mom. Things get a bit mixed up at that point for we were also told that my mom lived with this aunt for some time, that they wanted to raise her as their own but her father came to take her back home. The census records indicate my mom was living with her parents up until her mom's death.

Right after her father married my mom's stepmother, he was drafted into WWII and left with the new wife and 2 stepchildren to head west for training, leaving my mom to live with her grandparents those few years. Talk about abandonment over and over!

Before her father died, the summer I turned 16, I recall hearing my mom say that he had come to visit and apologized for not defending her against her step mom. He told her that he would disappear to work or just leave so that he didn't have to deal with his wife. From what my cousin tells me, it was a decision he regretted, having married this woman.  He was the typical absent father married to a very mean woman. Interestingly enough, of my mom's step siblings, the brother had BPD symptoms and was an alcoholic, and the sister (still living) may also be BPD. I am NC with her.

Regarding the shooting, my cousin filled me in this past year on some history surrounding the story. I often have thought that it is the stuff of movies.   The young man she was with was killed in the shooting. She continued on with her senior year of high school, interspersed with testifying in court and doctor's visits. Her grades fell, and the school finally told her parents that she needed counseling, and it was provided for her. Her life as she knew it: volleyball, piano, and friends changed so much. Because she wore a large tens unit to stimulate the nerves in her left arm and hand, she was very self conscious.

I remember the scar well, and it was just a part of my mom. I never thought anything of it.  She told me about it when I was 10 years old, and I cried to think that she nearly died.  :'( She didn't understand why I cried for her. It was only in the past 2 years when I read the many newspaper articles about it that I learned her brachial artery had been severed. There was so much more to her story that I learned through those articles than she ever spoke of. She never talked to us about it again, except while on her death bed she mentioned it to me once more.

It truly is a wonder and a choice when we chose to not walk the same dysfunctional walk of our parents. It is good for me to put these happenings together in this thread for it really does help me to take in more of the full picture and understand better the pain of her life.

Wools

Kwamina,

Thanks for the insights.  I hope that someday I can heal enough where I can get to the point where I don't "react" but just look at her almost as a 2 y.o. and feel for her without getting caught up in her emotions and attacks.  I was inspired by your ability to see her for what she really is... .hurt.

What's the GC, grandchild?

I can relate to some of this.

My maternal grandmother was disabled, she had scoliosis and was a hunchback.

My mom's first husband went nuts after a stint in Vietnam and came after her with a shotgun when she was dating my dad.

... .

So far I've identified my mom as invalidating, don't know which mother type that is, and as physically abusive (witch), and physically  she is a waif, so she's definitely the waif type.

GC= golden child, as in can do no wrong when BPD splits.

Hi Singingdove


Thanks for your comments here. Changing our own responses and accepting reality as it is, takes time. Applying the tools and really seeing them for what they are also takes time. When I re-read certain articles I still come to new and very important insights. Tools such as validation/empathizing and acceptance (of reality as it is), can be hard, but I think as we keep working on them it can become easier. These tools can be transformative as they really ask us to look and reach inward. Perhaps somewhat paradoxically, I have found that by empathizing with another we are actually also (re)awakening our ability to empathize with ourselves and treat ourselves with compassion.

Take care

Busybee,

How did you get to the more empathy, without being "sucked" into the black hole of BPD?  Even though I learned about BPD a few years ago, I've been doing a lot more reading lately.  My sister said something that rang true with me - that she almost feels resentful that we even have to deal with this.  Kind of like, "Why do I have to work at this because if this were any other person, I'd just walk away.?"  I go back and forth between feeling sorry for her and just being down right frustrated and angry that I even have to do anything.  I'm currently in one of the "frustrated" moment. 

I know that I posted about my mom's surgery and she got through it fine, however, she doesn't know yet if she'll need chemo - she does need radiation.  She's already gotten back to some of superior behaviors and having the need to verbally cut down others (whether it's to their face or ours).  She recently complained about how one of the nurses had this "28-page dissertation" to go over and can't see that she does that to us when she sends emails that go on ad nauseum about trivial and minor details.  Why can't I seem to blow off her lengthy emails?  Maybe, whether I'm admitting it or not, I thought that maybe somehow this diagnosis would change her some how.  Do I need to give up all hope that she'll ever change?

Anyway, thanks for listening!

Kwamina,

Thanks for the kind words.  What I'm hearing is "it takes time" and maybe what's uncomfortable for me is that it doesn't feel like it's ever going to get better.  That's what my heart says, my head knows better.  I feel like my only options are to either be totally enmeshed or almost see her as someone I'm not related to for whom I feel sorry.  Neither one seems healthy but maybe that's what it takes - give up the idea that I have a mother and see her as someone to feel sorry for.  Any thoughts?

Singingdove

Singingdove--for me, it's been time and a little distance. It's been about 5-6 years now since I figured out she likely has BPD. I went from a phase where I felt vindicated--"hey, it's not ME who is the problem! I'm not the crazy one!" And then reviewed my whole life through a new lens. Then, that hurt. I realized what a crappy mother she was/is. I felt resentful and looked for harm in her every action. I became like her, thinking she was 100% bad, me all good and this relationship mess we have is not my fault at all but hers. And while that was true when I was young and dependent... .it's not true now. It took also seeing her as wounded and flawed. She still causes me stress and I still get hooked by her drama and moods, but I'm slowly detaching. I, like you, felt it was unfair to have to manage this relationship. And, if I wanted, I could walk away (with lots of drama). Many do need to separate. I choose not to because the fallout would include my dad and bro and I want to maintain relationships with them. And, she has some good points, sometimes. I think time and just really understanding the dance has helped me get to empathy. Most days at least

Busybee-It was good to hear that you had some of the same reactions at first. It's also good to see that time and some distance can help. I never made that connection in thinking of them as "all bad" is really mirroring their behavior. I'm hoping to get some one-on-one counseling to deal with my automatic reactions that I have and how to diminish them.

Thanks for sharing!

Hi Singingdove


This isn't easy but I have actually been doing something that is similar to what you describe here. We can use different words for it, but what I see you saying sounds like a struggle with accepting the reality of our BPD parent and the consequences it has for the relationship we can have with them. Accepting this is very hard and hurts because it means letting go of the 'loving fantasy' parent we never had yet deep inside might still long for very much. In a way this really does feel like losing your parent, it's like a mourning process in which we grieve the loss of our 'fantasy' parent. So I can very much relate to what you say here. Being able to empathize with our parent moves us forward, accepting the reality of BPD also moves us forward, but this moving forward is often also painful. We gain certain things, but we also lose something. It might be 'just' a fantasy that we are losing, yet it was still a very cherished fantasy nonetheless and that hurts.

Take care

Yeah, when I feel my mother come out of me when I'm having a problem with my daughter that reminds me that I still have a lot of work to do.

I very much enjoy your writing Kwamina. Even more I admire your self honesty.

As Turkish says, it's a wonder that you have so much love and empathy. Stick-to-it-iveness!

From something you have said repeatedly I have learned a bug lesson in letting go of anger.

It doesn't come easy and it doesn't work if forced.

I believe my thinking to have been black and white for many many years although friends disagree.

One thing though is that I always imagined the ":)oes my mother love me?" internal debate to only have one of two answers.

By reading the OP I saw that it doesn't.

Hello Lightbulb!

Maybe it's more important to focus on how I feel about her than how she feels about me.

Simple. So beautifully easy to distill.

I guess your self insight made it possible for you to really see when your mother was in distress rather than looking for attention.

That also helps to illustrate to me that my own mother has very very few moments of genuine distress. Her acting ability and my own lack of trust in my perceptions make it difficult for me to penetrate. Although I am now applying logic to situations which tumble me emotionally.

I think you must be a very special person to keep looking for the good the way you do.

It's inspiring!

Zed

Well that's why we're here, to do the work together  Important thing is that you are able to monitor yourself in realtime and notice the moments you feel 'your mother coming out of you'. By being aware of this, you can start working on alternative responses.


Maybe it is indeed :) With their distorted thinking and distorted perception and their unstable sense of self, it's often very hard to determine what our BPD parents really feel or think. They might not even really know themselves what they are feeling and thinking, and even if they do they might not understand why they are experiencing these thoughts and emotions.


I have been thinking about what you said here and I think the best indicator that my mother is in real distress is when she's crying. She actually seldom cries, she was more of a pouter and 'give the cold treatment type'  , but the few moments I do remember her crying she was in actual distress. In a way that sounds obvious right, crying signals distress, but I also know that some people with BPD cry a lot, that isn't the case with my mother though.

And thanks for your kind words Zed :)

Interesting topic Kwamina.

I know it's hard to believe, but in the midst of all the turmoil, around 21 years old, ( 8 years ago) I finally accepted and dealt with a lot of things. At the time, we lived near a river and I would go there and cry, talk, scream, be silent, whatever I needed, and it was very healing.

That was when I realized that excuses suck, but reasons are important. There are VERY many reasons why my dad, and mom for that matter, are and were the way they are. It helped me because I literally hated them and wanted them to die. I wouldn't ever do or orchestrate it myself, I just hoped they would drop dead. I know that's horrible, but that's how I used to feel. I accepted that what I lost could never be given back, and what lay ahead just wasn't pretty. My dad has so altered his reality that he was a great parent and husband and honestly doesn't understand when anyone treats him remotely like he wasn't. It's difficult in the fact because there will be no resolution with him for those things. I've had to accept that it would never happen, and it was hard, because it's more difficult to get the closure you want that way, but thankfully not impossible. My brother is the only other one who feels this ways, both my sisters still blame them for everything and are very "two-faced" when interacting with them. They feel one way, but to not cause waves, act another.

Reasons why my dad has uBPD?  Wow, there's so many.  I wrote them all down, then erased them, it's not my story to tell. Defining moment though? I know that very clearly, it was when his closest brother died of kidney failure. He had a host of other issues to go along with it, but that's what eventually took him. His brother was his grounding, and even though he'd been crazy even knowing that, he flipped after that and has never been the same since. Because he had so many health issues my dad was always around him, taking him places, taking care of his physical needs and just enjoying being around him. He was the only one who could tell my dad like it was and he wouldn't flip on him. Once the ground was taken from under his feet is when he lost it for real and has never truly come back.

He's in such a sad state right now, with so many health issues it isn't even funny. Even though I know he did it mostly to himself, I can't help but see him just as he is, like we all are, broken, wanting to be whole and not knowing exactly how to do that. We find ways to manage, to make things better sure, but I think that inside we all know that we're not perfect. It's just hard to admit that, especially for people who haven't been through all that most of us here have. It wasn't easy, and he still ticks me off with his antics, but since I already let all of that go it doesn't carry the weight of all the previous baggage with the current situation like it used to. I let it all go at the river, to be honest. I yelled, screamed, cried or just simply talked. Everything I hated about him, about mom, myself, my life and the way things were. After I got through the majority of that, and let out some of the pain I had been holding for SO SO long, healing kind of flowed naturally and I was able to see them as people, not as an object of hate/disgust/disdain which I had previously done. Like I said, not what might be considered the clinical approach, but for me, it was when my heart wasn't so clouded to see the truth, they were broken too, and without the skills or ability I had found to heal.

For my mom, it was about the same time because her mom (although she was adopted and physically, emotionally, mentally abused her her whole life) died within two weeks of my uncle. My mom and us kids (my two sisters, brother and me) were the ones that took care of her as she was dying, literally no matter the weather we were there every night. Her dad, (also adopted, she was adopted as an infant) died of cancer 7 years before him. He was a rough old man, but he loved us. My mom was the one who got to see the worst him, but he also cared for her, just had to fight his wife to do it when he was there. He was gone a lot working. With my dad falling away from his own brother, he couldn't be there for my mom and vice versa, so that moment in time is when everything really fell to pieces for both of them. Her parents controlled her, and she went to my dad who controlled her every move.

From learning their stories, it didn't help me to forgive what they had done to me. All my life what had happened to them became excuses for what they did to me, and that made me hate them. There were reasons why they did what they did yes, but it doesn't excuse their behavior by any means. To explain what I mean, I have a ton of issues because of the prolonged abuse, and I haven't acted great, a lot. What caused me to do it may be a reason, but it isn't an excuse, a cop out. I'm still fully responsible for the consequences of my actions. That's what my dad has never gotten ahold of. Regardless of how bad your life was, my life was/is, it doesn't give you an excuse to continue to abuse.

I guess I was lucky to be able to observe, to think more. My parents were mainly doers, just get it done, work hard, life will treat you right kind of people. ... .Yeah, not exactly. lol Anyways, that's all I've got to say. I hope it makes sense.

I think so too! :)


Thanks for joining the discussion and sharing your experiences. It sounds like your time at the river was very cathartic and transformative. To use the words of Marsha Linehan "Pain is pain. Suffering, agony, are pain plus non-acceptance. So if you take pain, add non-acceptance you end up with suffering.  Radical acceptance transforms suffering into ordinary pain."

You quite literally laid down your burden down by the riverside.

The point you make about excuses versus reasons is also very valid and important. Our parents have disordered minds, yet within the context of that disorder they are still responsible for their own actions. Making the analysis to determine the reasons or root causes of the dysfunction is very important for us to be able to end the cycle of conflict and dysfunction. Our parents may never change, yet by changing our own behavior and responses we can end the cycle of conflict and dysfunction by no longer contributing to the drama. That's why I also really like tools such as the Karpman Triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle) and FOG (https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog) because they help conceptualize the dynamics of conflict that can be passed down from generation to generation.

How interesting the story of your mother and the tragic loss of her parents at such a young age. It seems to be a known thing that having a destabilizing or invalidating environment can be a catalyst for BPD.

My uBPD mother grew up in communist Cuba in the 50s and 60s. In that era the political environment was very unstable. My grandfather - her father - was actively involved in anti-Castro revolutionary efforts, and many of his comrades were captured and executed. It was a constant risk for my mother to lose her father. She knew this, and he always tried to prepare her for the worst ("If they get me, you need to be strong and keep fighting and get our family out of here," he would say). But I think it left her terrified on the daily. She lived through a civil war where her hometown was bombed... .she spent Christmas Day in 1959 under a mattress listening to fighter planes flying overhead. On top of that my grandmother is not a loving or affectionate person, and my mother, somewhat of a rebel, was seen as the black sheep by her mother, who I also suspect to have BPD. She eventually left to the US when she was 19 with her parents, penniless, speaking no English, and with nothing but a small duffel bag of a few belongings. In a word it was horrifically traumatic.

She did well for herself and went to medical school and worked as a doctor for 40 years. She was always obsessed with me and my sister having "things" - nice things, nice jewelry, the best clothes, a nice car. She always stressed that she didn't want us to lack for anything. But she went way overboard. It hurt me greatly socially because I always wore nice designer clothes and shoes, and drove an exotic car, and people made assumptions that I would be a snooty brat when in fact I felt odd and out of place in all the expensive gear I toted on the daily. Her parents were never able to provide for her economically, so she used money as a leash for us. She bought us gifts, and she expected us to do as she wished. If we didn't then we were labeled as unloving and inconsiderate. Just this past Christmas she bought me a new phone, and when I disagreed with her on something later that afternoon, she lost it and said, "and here I am, buying you all this nice stuff, and look at you - such an inconsiderate brat!" *sigh*

I know her upbringing is never an excuse for her behavior, but I can understand how she came to be the way she is because of her traumatic upbringing. It at least gives me something to think about when she's raging. Something to remind myself that she was once young and vulnerable, and was hurt and emotionally tortured in ways I won't ever understand. In a way, I think pitying my mother makes it easier to deal with her. I think of her as like a schizophrenic... .someone who perceives the world in such a twisted way, it's hardly reality anymore.

Hi GreenGlit


This does seem to be the case yes. Such an environment isn't necessarily the cause of the BPD, but can definitely trigger or exacerbate the BPD (traits) present in someone.


Thanks for sharing your mother's story. Her childhood does sound very stressful indeed. I can imagine how scary it must have been for her knowing she might lose her dad. Especially when she knows many of his comrades were captured and/or killed, which probably only reinforced her fears. This whole ordeal can be very traumatic for a child. Also the move to the US without any money and not speaking the language, isn't easy at all. She was able to do remarkably well though in some areas, she went to medical school and was a doctor for a very long time.


This line stood out to me. Your mother's love seems very conditional and her buying you guys gifts seemed more about buying your allegiance or obedience. Another thing that comes to mind is that as you also point out yourself, her perception of reality is distorted. As a result she might actually feel very slighted when you don't do as she wants or express don't wanting her gifts. She might read that as rejection. It also seems that by giving you guys so much, she in a way is almost trying to erase her past or perhaps hopes that by doing these things she can make right what was broken back then. Her buying you gifts in a sense could then also be seen as her buying her younger self gifts, with her younger self being projected onto you. If that is the case, she probably ins't even (fully) aware that this is what she's actually doing here. Do you feel that this might (at least partly) explain why your mother behaves this way?

Take care

The Board Parrot

Definitely a topic worth talking about.

I try to figure out when my mother´s BPD had a start, i tried searching to how a person develops BPD and for what i have observed in my mother and other people it seems to be caused by early childhood traumas and not having the ability to cope with it the way that a non BPD person would , rationally.

Here´s what i know about my mother´s story, but first let me tell you a little or what i know about my grandparents, my grandmother has the golden award of BPD´s( the queen), but she was i believe the oldest child of a very poor family, many siblings, when she was still a child she had to start working and helping out the family, i don´t know about any physical abuse to my grandmother, but apparently the fact that she was forced to grow up at a young age when she was a little girl, who as a grown up prefers to date a married man only for his social status, and for the places he will bring her to, and the gifts he will give her, even though she knows he will never leave his wife, this man is not my grandfather, it´s someone she met after they divorced. Often as a child i heard her complaining about not having anything as a child, material things, still as a smart woman she is she moved when she could and went to college, there she met my grandfather, married him , had three kids. So my grandfather, by what my grandmother says and what my mom agrees to her, he was a womanizer.

My mother describes herself as a very quiet child, so quiet she was almost stupid( this is how she says it ) apparently my mother was never validated by her parents, my grandfather is the type of guy that lives for the outside person, my mom remembers this occasion where she was playing with some naighbors and they were being mean to her and somehow they got on a fight and instead of correcting her the correct way, my grandfather corrected her by humiliating her in front of these other girls, i see how this can be devastating for ones selfstem, condemn without given the right to express what happened. My mom says that my grandmother often treated her badly and made her feel ugly and self aware of how she looked, my mom also hated , i mean hated her own name just because of the way my grandmother used to say it when calling her. these are things my mom told me when i was yound, from age 5 to 10, she doesn´t mention them anymore. When she turned 15 my grandmother divorced my grandfather and they were extremely poor, my mom though, had a talent for painting and she was attending the art school, many times made fun off for not keeping up with the standards of the other girls, my grandfather met another woman who had two daughters, about the same age, when my mom went to college, she was recluted in school , everyone was, but my mom had severe asthma, still my grandfather never went to visit her at school , but would ride a bike many miles away with his new wife along to see the stepdaughters, this are things i remember my mother yelling to my grandparents when i was little, still they never accepted their failure.

So i think to this point she had a chance of changing , she knew what hurt her, and why she was feeling this way. I remember my mom going on crazy anger moments, through things away that weren´t her , usually my grandmothers, or other things in our house, i at first blamed my grandparents, because i thought why don´t you tell her , nobody tells her how disctructive she´s acting , she can´t go on like this , you are her parents, you should tell her, but they did nothing. my grandmother would put my uncles against my mother telling them how abusive to her my mom was, and when she came over to our house, she would do the same, just that this time the abusers where my uncles. yes, my grandmother ended up splitting the three of them apart, and my grandfather ? well he was with his other wife. my mom never got over this, now my mom is in a better economic situation than my grandmother , so she tells my mom whatever she wants to hear because my mom gives her money. well the story is long , you guys know , this is an everyday battle. and yes when i think about all this i feel bad for her, but having to live through that pain didn´t stop her to hurt me and abuse me everytime she had an opportunity, sneakily she would actually do this things when no one was around and then make me act like everything was fine. so what i think is that she makes a new choice everyday and that´s just how i see it. and out there, there are lots of people ,actually everyone have suffered some sort of pain, disappointment in life, but one make a choice, to be different. i used to love my mom when i was little and suffered so much for seeing her in constant pain and agony, now the only thing i feel is pitty, i wish she would open her eyes and see how much she has missed already , how everything could be happier , but she´s never happy with anything, nothing you ever do for her is enough.

I´m happier since i´ve been in NC with her, she was sucking my soul.

Hi Kwamina - what an amazing thread this is.  I was very moved and impressed by the insight you have into your mother's situation, and admire your ability to accept it for what it is.  Since realising that I think my sister has BPD, I have been able to make sense of a lot of her horrible behaviour, though sadly, every approach I tried, just being nice, ignoring it etc. in the early days (just after my mother passed away, nearly 3 years ago), nothing worked.  When I stopped responding, and distanced myself, she did eventually stop harassing me for the most part, but the horrible stories about me have continued to this day, to anyone who will listen.  Realising that she has BPD also allowed me to make sense of some isolated episodes that occurred when we were younger, and both lived at home.  I can see that her difficult behaviour definitely became worse after my father died 21 years ago - but a lot of the time she is high functioning, so I never thought it was anything more than attention seeking/victim playing/downright awkwardness and being very moody.  When I found the book "Walking On Eggshells" I realised the expression perfectly summed up how I behaved around her a lot of the time, even when she was ok.  I can understand that my Mum passing away - especially as my sister lived with her despite having her own house nearby - and also doesn't have a partner or children - had a massive impact on her, probably more so than me, as although I was very close to my Mum, and she was a big part of my life also, I do have a husband and kids.  So I can see now, that losing our parents would have felt like some huge abandonment, and it helps explain a bit.  But I tried for a long time to get through all the nastiness that started after Mum died - and she clearly wanted to carry it on, and so it didn't seem like she was interested in any olive branches - she was only interested in blackening my character and accusing me of all sorts of vile things (which I later worked out were things that she was doing!).  I am relieved that she is basically out of my life, but sad as well, because she is my only sibling and it is sad that it should be like this.  I honestly don't think there is any more I could say or do that could help.  My other big question mark, is that we are both adopted - both as very young babies, we are only 13 months apart in age, were treated exactly the same by our parents, who were very loving, and there was no trauma in our childhood or youth.  We were also told very young that we were adopted.  I can't remember not knowing I was adopted, and have always been very relaxed about it, although it wasn't something that we ever really discussed with our parents.  I have always sensed that my sister was not comfortable talking about it, certainly not to other people, but always thought that was fair enough as it is a very private thing.  For a long time when I first found out about BPD I thought maybe it was not what she had, because so many articles talked about the BPD sufferer having a background of abuse, trauma etc. and turning to risky behaviours such as promiscuity, drug taking etc.  None of this applies to my sister.  Her behaviour, lying, rages etc. totally mirror the stories I read here - to a spooky extent, so I do think it is BPD, but I still struggle with working out why she has it - it must be mainly genetic, and there was nothing in our early environment to trigger it - and she basically never really left home.  She has her own house, but lived with my parents till a year or so after my father died.  She moved into her own house with her boyfriend for about 2 years, when that fell apart, she lived at my Mum's off and on, and later moved back in with her (she didn't need to - my Mum was in reasonable health and very independent) - though she always moaned about my Mum, and made out she had no choice but to live there.  I don't doubt though that she loved my Mum dearly in her way, though I can see now, thinking back on things my Mum said, that my sister made life quite difficult in the house a lot of the time, taking over, bossing my Mum about etc.  I also think that other than the odd irrational thing, that I wasn't a target for a long time because I didn't live with her - I was an hour away with my own life - I haven't lived with her for nearly 30 years - so she just wasn't really in a position to target me with her anger - I wasn't present- although we talked very regularly on the phone, and I did see her fairly regularly.  Anyway - don't know where I'm going with this - just trying to make sense of it all.  I guess I haven't quite achieved radical acceptance yet! Seems sad - I've helped a lot of people in my life, and I'm a good friend to people, and yet I can't help my own sister - my only option for a peaceful life is to be no contact, and it will never feel completely ok.  Thanks for listening.   

Hi sheishei

Thanks for sharing the story of your mother and grandparents. Based on your post I can definitely see certain things your grandparents did that would affect your mother. That however, indeed does not excuse her abuse of you. Sometimes it unfortunately is necessary to distance ourselves from our own family-members, this to protect ourselves. You are currently in that situation. No matter how you go forward with your mother, I am glad you are feeling happier now and this period of NC is something you can use to heal and strengthen yourself.


You were still very young when she told you all these things your grandparents did to her. How did it make you feel as a child hearing these stories? How was your own relationship with your grandparents?

It is sad that your grandmother splitted her own children and pitted them against each other. From your post it becomes clear that your mother did seem to realize that the way her parents treated her was not right. Do you feel like your uncles ever came to a point of realizing that what your grandmother did was wrong?

Hi Linda Maria,

Nice to hear from you again :)


I can understand why you are relieved, nobody wants to be abused. At the same time it also is very sad that the only way to deal with her seems to be complete NC. I actually have a brother who I'm NC with. I don't talk about him must, usually only talk about my uBPD mom and sis when I'm online here. I never considered my brother to be PD, still don't but in some ways he's way worse than my mom and sis. That's also why I'm NC with him. The thing with him is that his hatred, rage and contempt are constant. I don't see any dysregulation in him as I see in my mother and sister, he is always this way and has massive narcissistic traits and a huge sense of entitlement. With him it's never that he's out of control, he always knows exactly what he's doing. The scary thing is that he's in control, his contempt is real and stable, no splitting with him, just total and stable contempt for his own family. In certain ways he was also spoiled by my mother who did not correct his disrespectful and aggressive behavior at all. He also never did anything in the house growing up, no chores at all, he never offered to do anything either and my mother never asked him to do any chores.


Yes that's what we are all trying to do, trying to make sense of this difficult BPD reality and doing the best we can to cope. It is sad that your sister behaves the way she does. Radical acceptance is hard and requires continual work, and even then I think many of us will deep down inside always still long for the loving 'fantasy' family-member we never had. It is what it is and there is of course always hope, yet knowing what we know about our disordered family-members, it is important that any hope we have is based in the (harsh) reality of what we know about BPD. It is what it is, and it is sad indeed. Radical acceptance can't take away all the sadness, but can make it a bit more bearable.