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Hey everybody, I've mostly been over on the Staying board, but my uBPDex just formally broke off contact with me last night, after some extreme and sabotaging behavior. We're talking one last time this Friday, but beyond that, I don't see speaking to her for a while. So ... .here I am. Detaching.

Some of you may have read my story in various threads here, but to make a long story short: dated for 14 months long distance, she broke up with me (I don't even really know why anymore - a combination of "you don't love me enough" and "I'm not ready to make the changes to be with you", we tried to be "friends" for ten months but neither of us really wanted to be friends, and she turned out to be incapable of forgiving me for mostly exaggerated slights against her. It's been a rollercoaster and I guess my go-around is over.

Hi, Detaching Board. Wish I could say I was happy to be here.

You will be happy in the long run. 100% guaranteed.

Ha! Oh, I know that. It'll probably be soon too. I've been through the wringer, and we took lots of opportunity to try to hash it out, and I know that I did better than my best. It just wasn't manageable. She was abusive and I turned the other cheek so many times. She just couldn't help herself.

The crazy $hyt you need to put up with in these relationships isn't worth it. And in the end, it always falls apart. Well, unless you wanna jump through some crazy hoops to keep it going until it falls apart anyway.

... .exactly like I did. For ten months. Well, really fifteen months, since she pulled her first break up power move after eight months to manipulate me into compliance when she could have gotten the same result by just actually talking to me like a sensible adult instead of game-playing.

Vent!

What I have learned in my dating/life experience is that you only break up once. 99% of the time the crazy cycle of 25,000 break ups and make ups doesn't lead to anything. You might give somebody a second chance. After that. Done.

You couldn't have said it any better... .

Fortunately I've had ten months of steadily decreasing hope and steadily increasing abuse to give me a good push off. At first I envied the next guy she'll date benefiting from the work I put in on her, but now I seriously pity the guy. She's a mess and if she isn't capable of putting in the work for me she sure won't for some other random guy who will inevitably be way less committed and capable than I am.

Sorry to hear your story, MapleBob. I was with my exgf for almost three years with one breakup in the middle. The second time around I used the lessons from the staying board which helped tremendously.

However, dealing with a person with BPD is a lot like dealing with an addict. Her BPD is her problem, you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

I believe in second chances which is why I got back together with my exgf. Once. I don't believe in third, fourth, fifth, or more chances because I'm not going to live forever.

How are you doing right now, MapleBob?

Thanks, learning_curve. I've done this before too (breakup/makeup cycle), so you'd think I'd know better. I'm awesome at convincing myself to stay way beyond shelf life hoping to fix things, or find the understanding of the situation to fix things. She gave me many opportunities and reasons to get out of this relationship, but I wasn't taking them, because I still saw the good in her, and also because I refused to split her black (like she did to me).

How am I doing right now? I'm sad, and things feel unresolved and open-ended, but I'm doing relatively okay for the moment. Ten months of struggle after a fourteen-month relationship is probably plenty, and I think I have the closure from her to accept the sad reality of the situation. That sad reality being that we love and like each other still - and strongly - but that it isn't going to work out between us any time soon. And I feel pretty validated by her (finally) when she admits that SHE is the one that sabotaged things, and that she can't help herself. I told her that we could just stop fighting and let things be calm for a while instead of salting the earth with No Contact, and she simply said "I can't stop fighting with you." So, a: wow, that's unmanageable and worth walking away from, and B: that hurts, and it's not my fault, and seeing those strong feelings and knowing that there is strong love there too, and seeing her inability to reconcile those opposing feelings... .Kind of a deal breaker. I gave her ten months to sort it out and she can't. Not with my presence OR absence. It's like "my work here is done!" That's how I feel. It's on her now if she wants to reach out to me again in the future, and it really should have been her in the first place, ultimately, instead of me.

I did my part and she didn't do hers, basically. She doesn't have those skills yet - and until she does, I can't keep throwing good money after bad with her.

Nggggg, really angry this morning. How did I fall for such an insane person? And where does she get off treating me like this?

Hi Maple Bob!

I've moved over here to detaching too   

Ha! Greaaaaaaaat.

don't even meet or talk the last time it's a trap!

What? Why? Explain please.

Heck it not any of my business but I've had 3 textbook BPD nuts in my life and the first two were like u described I kept at it and drove me crazy. The last one I went NC after she texted me the dump. Blocked her number didn't wave just pretended like it never happened. Guess what 3 weeks later she's back to her reckless whore life and I'm giving you advice. Why would u want to have one last contact with her? To let try and manipulate u more because if you think you have the upper and you don't. You live your life I'm just speaking from experience but more contact is not what I would want. So Friday you meet her and spend the next few weeks analyzing everything again.  Go live your life! She is and just stringing you along. Read any of the 1000 posts on this website NEVER BELIEVE A WORD THAT COMES OUT OF A BPD's MOUTH.! Lying and manipulation are there no one weapons. You didn't to a thing other than fall for trash. It happens to the best of us men all the time and trust me it all comes around. You're going to miss the new open door because you're standing there staring at the closed one. The best revenge is living well. Good luck my friend.

Hey Bob, what happened exactly?

I can relate to what you're saying, but the "last talk" was my idea. I felt so shocked by her sudden change of heart that I didn't really say any proper goodbyes, I just kind of stammered and tried to understand where in the hell she was coming from. We're long distance, so it's not a meeting. I want to do it on the phone, but she's currently refusing, so it's just an evening of texting and saying goodbye and probably indicating to her under what circumstances she should contact me again.

Well, it's a long story, but recent events:

We broke up in February of last year (so ten-ish months ago), did no contact for maybe six weeks, then started being in touch again in a "let's see if we can eventually be friends or maybe fix some things and be together again" kind of way. That was rocky, there was a lot of push/pull, but I always managed to smooth things over and maintain contact with her. We wrote each other two letters in September - one was a "things I'm angry about" letter and the other was "things I love about you/nice things about the relationship" letter. To purge the bad and get back in on the good. Common therapy practice. She got really sweet again after the angry one, then really angry/mean after the nice one. Pretty unexpected. She then insisted that we only talk once a month for a while, so that she could try to be less angry and more open through limited triggering contact. Plus, she was finalizing her long-delayed divorce (separated five years, coparenting, fairly functional, for all intents and purposes already divorced, just a formality), so she had other things going on. She got into therapy but wasn't doing work about *our* relationship, despite that being a major source of problems and obsession for her. (Yeah, I know, a lot of that makes no logical or emotional sense.) December rolls around, we've had a few good contacts in a row and things are looking up! She sends a Christmas card to me that says she's looking forward to talking to me in the new year, and I send her one saying that I hope the new year is gentle enough for her to open her heart again. She spends Christmas in Vegas, comes back, we had a talk planned, and she texts me that she wants me to open up more, she wants to know me better, and that if I want more I have to give her more. I agreed! Wholeheartedly, and wanting her to understand that she's pushed me away A LOT, but that I'm willing to open up to her given some safety. She slowly loses her sh*t on me throughout this text fight, apologizes the next day, then the next day after that we talked on the phone and she says that she "can't do this anymore", "there's no point", she "wants to find a relationship that she feels good about", and that she never wants to speak to me again, asks me to unfollow her on social media, then refuses to talk further about it. Another text fight, I asked her to talk to me one last time so that I can say goodbye and close things off and be clear, and she agrees to text me but not get on the phone this coming Friday.

So it's crazy dysregulated and impulsive behavior, right? Any time things have started looking up in the past ten months, she has thrown a huge sabotaging wrench in the works.

It's okay to be angry about yourself AND about her. It's just like you said, "How did I fall for such an insane person?" and the way she treats people can be hurtful regardless of it being driven by her mental illness.

In the end, these types of relationships can be a lesson to us. It can force us to examine what we value in life and what we should value in a partner to support and add to this life we wish to live. It takes time and effort on our parts to heal and get to a point in our lives where the hurtful past has lost its power.

I still love my exgf as a person and wish her the best. But in no way do I think we should be life partners. Some people can only be loved from a distance, we don't need an active relationship with them, and this can be true of not even former lovers but parents and children but that's a discussion for a different board... .

Hey MapleBob, I just saw your most recent post after I was writing you above.

I know wanting to meet or talk for that "last time" is a natural thing, it's exactly what I did the first time that I broke up with my exgf. We just want to get out our thoughts and feelings and be heard. The issue for a BPDer is that they may not be hearing or able to understand our side especially if dysregulated, and sometimes not even when clear headed. And then if you use the communication tools from the staying board, you can feel like your side of things are getting lost -- remember we're the emotional caretaker, and they will often be in emotional turmoil and unable to return the favor to us. Sometimes they are so far down the rabbit hole at the time that no communication tools will get through, and that can be frustrating to us.

Whatever happens, good luck to you and hugs. 

I think there's also an element to my situation of "how can he still love me when I'm like this?" because she says things like "I'm mean and cruel to you! It's going to take me a long time to not be like that anymore." She also claims that I treated her like she was "average", which is complete nonsense. This is far from average effort or understanding on my part, and I was very good to her, just not devil-may-care throw-caution-to-the-wind unsustainably desperately codependent like she wanted me to be.

What she thought was her last text to me: "I like and love you, and I'm sorry that I don't have what it takes to know you right now. I don't know if you'll hear from me again, but I will reach out if the timing feels better some day. I hope this year is good to you, and you get the things you want in your life. ❤️"

AKA "the last ten months of my life"! Exactly.

Thank you, learning_curve.

^^^ my point exactly

Ah yes... ."I will give you this vague hope of getting back together at some point so that you stick around and wait for that day when timing feels better for me. Or it will never feel better, after all I didn't commit to anything and never promised anything. But feel free to wait for me and jump when I feel like pulling you back... .until I don't feel like it anymore" :)

Dude, BPD or not, nothing good comes out of this kind of stuff. Nothing good for the person who is left dangling on this unspecified vague rope of maybe kinda sorta hope. There is nothing to talk about, really.

you guys are suckers I'm sorry but I've seen this so many times. they know how far the rabbit hole is they know what their doing. Don't blame the BPD it's no excuse. Talk to some psychologists and psychiatrists they'll tell you it a game. I'm sorry to be so harsh but I've been through it . They used you for what they needed and any time they come back in any way it's like feeding a stray cat. Except a stray cat will not go out of their way to make your life hell and blame it on some bull___ trama.

Okay guys, the anger and name-calling is really not helping me. Not my style.

I don't know your exes, but mine is not doing this maliciously or selfishly. She really doesn't know *what* she's doing, that's abundantly clear. She's mentally/emotionally unhealthy, not criminally insane.

Yea yours is different. Good luck

That "last phone call" will never be what you want it to be.

You want closure. You want her to give you an unambiguous goodbye.

Getting that isn't the nature of BPD. You will continue to get push or pull, be painted black or white. Perhaps both in the same conversation.

The only closure you get is knowing that the ride you've been on is the only thing she is capable of giving you. And you are worth better than that.

i have to agree with everything UVA2002 said.

Are you guys saying not to bother with last contact, or not to expect much from it? Because the latter: I really don't.

i, personally, probably wouldnt bother. id leave her with the last word, and create space for both parties to heal and/or move on.

if you would like to say your piece, nothing wrong with a brief reply similar to her last text, but id keep it fairly BIFF, not expect a response, and say nothing that requires or opens a response on her end.

if its a face to face meeting you seek, i think that is very unlikely to happen, and may keep you in the same dynamic youre in.

Oh F2F is NOT going to happen. She's 300 miles away. I really just want to know what happened in the past two weeks that brought on such a drastic change, and for her to know that she's loved, but that she crossed this line way too many times.

What's BIFF?

possibly less than you think. she has experienced this process differently than you and her reality is probably very different. in other words, there may not be a concrete answer or any one thing.


she should by now.


she should by now. you dont need to declare it. silence and/or exiting the circumstances communicates this.


Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. in other words, if you want to reply, not much more than something like "thank you. i wish you all the same."

I just wanted to echo what once removed wrote above. Because she is mentally ill, her experience of the world, which of course includes your relationship, is filtered through her illness and can be very different from what you experienced. Imagine going on a roller coaster ride together: you may say, "wasn't that thrilling" whereas she may say, "that was frightening" -- you were on the exact same ride but had two wildly different experiences. I think you already experienced some of this when she told you that she felt that you treated her "average" whereas you felt qute otherwise.

Also, your ex may not be capable of giving you any coherent reason or may give you reasons that you may disagree with, all of which may only be frustrating to you.

Sometimes the hardest thing to decide is when to work harder at something and when to let go. And since a relationship takes two people, you sometimes don't get the choice and then it becomes a matter of how to make yourself at peace with it all. Good luck and best wishes.

I do understand that I will most likely be frustrated and disappointed, and that asking her questions and expecting answers might just dysregulate her on me. But I know that I'll keep asking myself these questions, and I want to hear what her answers will be. Even if they're "I don't know, screw you". I'm sure I'll at least hear something.

Anyway, at this point, the conversation is going to happen, it's scheduled. So I might as well. I might even have a chance to leave things in a bit more of a positive place, in at least some respects. You never know.

And you can all tell me "I told you so" on Saturday morning.  |iiii

Her answers are likely to be things she believes at that moment. And could be completely different in a few minutes or days.

Don't expect to get clarity on anything but her mental illness at best from talking to her.

But nothing wrong with trying. Some pwBPD do have moments of self awareness and clarity.

Hey Bob, I agree with GreyKitty that it'll be best to temper your expectations before meeting with her.

What are you hoping to achieve when you see her?

Well we're not meeting, just texting. My expectations are low to the point where I've thought about canceling it all together. I just don't want to walk away with questions unasked, even if I get less-than-satisfactory answers.

Our talk (well, text session) went pretty much as expected. It's true, I didn't get much in the way of answers, but I had most of my answers already. We used to do "highlights" after our dates of the best moments and I tried to get her to give me a few highlights of the last ten months. Her response: "If I could focus on highlights I wouldn't be saying goodbye. I mean, of course there are good things, but you know?" She also said that she was feeling sad and defeated and hopeless in her life in general right now, so there's obvious depression and other factors at play. I left it open for her to contact me down the line if she ever feels less conflicted about me, which seems like it might happen some day.

Her overall answer to the question of "Why?": "I have a lot of anger and I can't hurry up the process of letting it go. It's just a slow, slow thing. I'm stuck on the bad things. It's what I obsess about and run over in my head. I know that's not fair, but it affects me."

Meanwhile, I'm dating another girl and focusing on NOT contacting my ex. Which is a fair bit easier than waiting around for someone to not be sad or mad at you about things that they made up or exaggerated. If the love doesn't last, the love doesn't last. But I fully expect to hear from her one day.

New beginnings, maple. Onward and upward!

Enjoy suck it Saturday!

Translation: I'm not capable of being in a relationship (with you) now.

And that is clearly true!

Explain? What do you see there, Grey Kitty?

How you doing, Maple?

I'm alright. Some occasional rumination, but things feel/look pretty clear to me now. It still feels mostly like it did: it feels like a strong possibility that she'll be in touch again some day, but it also feels like a strong possibility that I will never hear from her again. I'm doing what I can to be fine either way, and moving on. It's a relief, but there's also still some grief on my end. I don't miss what the past ten months were like, but I miss the fourteen months before that.

I was talking about her answer regarding having a lot of anger.

She has to cope better with that anger before she can be in a successful relationship. At least with you. (If she gets into s new one immediately that problem will still be there. But perhaps her new partner will be a better emotional punching bag/doormat and accept all the anger more than you will)

Maybe she will process this and learn better eventually. Maybe not. You aren't likely to be the beneficiary of it either way.

Does that make sense?

Yes! That's what I figured you were getting at, and my thinking regarding her is pretty similar. I messed up some things with her for sure, but nothing remotely justifying 10+ months of anger/sadness/acting out about - certainly not with how consoling and validating and willing I have been to work through it with her. Key word there: work through.

Going forward, I'm not sure how well you learned tools like boundary enforcement, stopping yourself from saying needlessly invalidating things (like JADEing), validation, or tools like SET... .but if you did, this is time and effort well spent, and will help you in many ways.

People with BPD of other cluster B disorders are particularly sensitive and badly behaved ... .But nobody likes the things that set them off. And everybody likes validation. So these skills will help you relate better with everybody in your life, not just her.

For example, JADEing at your boss won't leave a good impression even if your boss doesn't blow up like a pwBPD. (Hoping your boss doesn't have a PD!)

I've been off this thread for a bit and try to sneak into the staying thread now that I am on round 2 of our cycle.

Let me say this: after 21 days of not seeing her I feel like a person who lived in a house that had a pee-stained carpet and an untrained dog. I couldn't smell the piss. Then, 21 days after I went on vacation, I open the door to this house and the smell is so terrible... .

I am NOT comparing her to a dog, I am not that disrespectful, also... .I can't fix anyone, she must fix herself, BUT I am now WAY more aware of how much this sucks.

I will no doubt be back to this side of things soon. These 12 days with her have been hard and ugly.

Why do we like these BPDs? Why don't we like ourselves more?

Oh for sure. For sure. I think there's a time and a place for JADE-ing, and I think that it builds understanding between people, BUT when you've said it once you've said it a hundred times. If they still aren't understanding or empathizing or doing their part to change the dynamic, well, that's that. And I will 100% percent be practicing the skills going forward.

My mistake was going into this relationship with pretty good boundary skills, and then kind of dropping them when she suddenly had a big problem with them.


I don't think it's a matter of not liking myself (well, not for me anyway), and it's not a matter of disliking her ... .It's about thinking that it's possible to return to the hypervaluation stage of giddy highs after the mask comes off. It's just not possible. In a healthy relationship the highs wear off and you're left with an intact relationship based on comfort or trust or mutual interest or empathy or whatever your relationship is good at. With a cluster B person you're left with a painful hangover.