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I opted to try to go NC (I guess technically LC since we work together - work related contact only) with J.  It hasn't, by far, been easy.  I am currently 5 days in (while she did send me a text on NYD and I replied with a simple happy new years back), it has been tremendously difficult for me to not have contact with her.  Not so much for my detachment but so I am not seduced back into the whirlwind.  There was/is so much going on with her that I had no idea about, I feel it was far worse than I'll ever know.

Today, by happenstance, I ran into an acquaintance of mine.  J had told me during our final week of personal discussions that she had applied for a job where this acquaintance works.  She had applied before our breakdown because she was tired of her treatment at work.  She said on our final week that she had hoped to get the position so she could leave our work because seeing me 'move on' was to much for her (and of course her treatment at work by supervision).  I asked this person if their company had filled the vacancy they had and they told me no (he would know for sure).  I did ask if J had applied and he told me that she hadn't (he said only two people had applied before the deadline and she wasn't either of them.  I know this wasn't misdirection/a lie on his part.  So, basically she had lied to me about applying for the open job.  It makes me wonder what all else she has lied to me about over this past year.

That's what's been so difficult.  I want to rip into her and let all the pent up anger I have out.  I know it would serve little purpose, but I so badly want to.  I don't really feel the urge to try to work anything out (after all, theres nothing to work out), I am just so wounded by how this ended up.  I feel used, mistreated, and so many other things.  Yes, I played a part in all of this, but I was so convinced that even though I knew she was BPD that she was trying to 'get better'.  It turns out, she really wasn't, I just saw a different version of J.

Did anyone else go through this phase (yes, I know anger is a part of grief, but I feel very angry)?  How did you deal with it?  Did you tell them off and walk away?  Did you meditate and find Zen?  I don't want to break NC, but I feel I won't make it the 2 months (a timeframe I set up to distance myself).  It's taking everything I have to not try to re-establish contact and then unload on her.  I just want to give her a piece of my mind.  Ugh. 

There is a picture of an iceberg... .At the top it says " these are the lies you know about" then you see the part of the iceberg under the water- it says " these are the lies you don't know about" then at the very bottom in the deep dark water it says " these are the lies you will never know about"... , this sums it up pretty well! I know lots of his lies and I suspect allot more. Some of them I don't let him know I know, like saying he got promoted when I know he didn't- I can use that later when he try's to tell me how poor he is! Sometimes I just call him out on them. He doesn't react. Technically it is supposed to make him feel more shame... .I don't know- he just doesn't respond. It makes me feel better to say something - a little bit. Sometimes I hold things in to protect other people- like I would love to tell him his mother thinks his gf is trash - but I don't want him to hate her anymore than he does. You have to decide. In the case of the job, I probably would keep it to myself to protect the guy that told you... , he may tell you more in the future. Just knowing the truth with somethings gives me satisfaction inside... , and yes, I'm very angry at times... .It's that part that needs to go away so we can " move on" ( I hate those two words- I hear then too much out of him and his gf)

Oh, and to answer on how to deal with it- I read bible quotes, yes- zen... .Buddha, Wayne dyer and I read books on abusers- those really put things in perspective for me! I just read you should feel safe and free of judgement in a relationship! Something I did not have with him and you can't tell me he changed- his mother said his girlfriends in the past all complained of the same thing! Sometimes you just have to take a break from it all, but when I need a fix when I'm mad or sad- I read or watch u tube videos on the subject. That truck driver Trenton Hawley has the best way of telling all of his stories and making you see how we are all going through ridiculous stuff... .Try that.

I try to don't feed my anger. In fact, I'm really engaged in trying to don't have hard feelings regarding him. Of course I get angry sometimes, but then I try to focuse the beautiful moments (to remember he's not exaclty a *monster*, just someone totally lost), or those I really felt pity of him.

I'm convinced the most important now is to cultivate peace - something I could not have during the relationship, even when the things were well. I was alert fulltime, measuring every little word, trying to antecipate any crisis, and I almost had not time to anything else in my life - he was my absolute priority.

The only way to be in peace with myself and the choices I made in the past is to be in peace with him. That's why I avoid to let the anger against him increases. I allow myself to have some pontual moments of anger, but in my heart there's no hard feelings. I regret some things I said when we finally broke up, and maybe he thinks I hate him and I'll always do... .I guess he'll never know how I wish him the best - even if I am really pessimist about his future.

I could tell you to forgive yourself first. You probably regret many things and many mistakes you commited regarding her, or think everything was a mistake, that you let things go too far etc. Thats why I guess its important to be in peace with the choices we made in life, after all. It's the formula to freedom. When you find it, the negative feeling you have, the anger, the frustration, all these things will fade.

It has worked for me :)

Astro, I so feel you on this. Before my response I should say I only figured out the BPD thing a few weeks ago so the below refers mostly to how I dealt with things not knowing of the disorder, now that I know there's more peace.

I had (ok, like as recently as yesterday) bouts of just talking angrily out loud in my apartment in fantasy conversations where I would call her out on things and just let her have it and shoot down all her nonsense justifications. Not sure this is healthy but that's what was happening for me.

Something that definitely helped was keeping a "bulls**t list" in the first few weeks after the big discard. All the angry thoughts about specific instances, or messed up dynamics, or bulls**t excuses she had made were just swirling in my head, circling around over and over like a David Lynch carousel. Horrible. A spiritual counselor I saw a few times suggested I keep an ongoing list in my pocket or phone and just write down things as they popped up, before I started thinking too hard about them. Repeating myself was fine. It helped because I had this sense of not wanting to forget the evidence, like I'd want to be heard on it all one day. (Strange and stressful feeling, which has since lifted... .she will never hear me. Never. Sigh.) It was also me trying to make sense of things, sort of making a case for what was really going on. So listing it on paper relieved me of the "keeping a metal tally" aspect of what I was angry about. Added bonus: I can review the list when I get soppy about wishing for her... .like oh yeah, in addition to her feeling so wonderful to me, she was so horrible to be with.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for this.  Ironically J got me a Christmas present, which was a set of journals (I am constantly writing/notetaking) and she got those for me.  When she gave them to me, I said thanks (keep in mind this was the final week of us talking, so I wasn't trying to get to emotional with her) and she said "I was going to write my name in one of those because I'm sure you'll fill it up with all your hate toward me."  All I could do was think "even in the end, it's all about you, isn't it?  Never mind all the stuff you did to me, all the stuff I forgave you for, and all the stuff you had going on I didn't even know about.  You're the reason I'm going to have to write anything about what happened to us.  But, yeah, I'm the bad guy for leaving you and even worse for having to do what I have to do to get over it, like write."

J always wanted me to tell her about my feelings.  Except when I tried to or did, she would immediately dismiss me and grab her phone.  What a selfish person she really is.

The more you can ignore her the more powerful you will become. Easy it is not but anger is what she lives for and don't give in. I've been through it as in 10 minutes ago. I wasn't rude but when we had to pass each other I sorta turned and didn't say anything. I could have and wanted to call her every name in the book and most would be true but I didn't. Heart beating outta my chest burning anger but I didn't lower myself to her level. Remember no matter what horrible events may have occurred in someone's life it's absolutely no excuse to pass that along and hurt others. They are responsible for their action just be tough as u can and keep busy. Good luck

Great tip, Herodias, thank you! I didn't think of looking on youtube at all :)

I can tell that today's going to be a hard day.  I had to be 1-1 with her at work for a few and while there wasn't much personal engagement, I found myself looking over her and seeing the apparent "move on" attitude.  She was busy snap chatting and she's been "put together" (i.e. Dressing nice, makeup, etc) the past couple of days.

She asked me how I had been. I sort of made a facial expression of "well... ." And I replied with "that's a rather personal question that I'll answer if you want." She replied with "we aren't going to talk about that." 

I had to resist a rage moment.  You ask me how I'm doing and then say we aren't going to talk about it?  Go F yourself, seriously.  Poor choice of words, she has plenty lined up to do that so she won't have to do it herself.  (I'd insert and angry face here, but don't see the option).

Hang in there I've been through it and I'm going through it. The dressing nice all that is just to mess with you. There life is a mess and always will be. Please for all of us resist falling into her web again. I know it's easier said than done but keep your head up and be the man. Every time you feel that anger and just push through it it makes you stronger. That's where the saying comes from.You need to get out and look around dont let her effect your routine go about your life and don't miss a new door opening because your still staring at the closed one. Ive done it many times and it made my life miserable for a long time. Let go or get dragged!

I can feel this one as well Loleny_Astro,

As you may know, me and my ex-uBPDgf are co-workers as well and it's such a hard stuff to look at her all the day long.

Yesterday after a two weeks vacations I was back to work and guess what I found?

A beautiful girl with make up (she didn't use to use makeup when we were together, at least at work) wearing a nice necklace that I offered her. Coincidence? I'm not so sure.

Now she's dressing the dress that she used in our first dinners =/

I know that I need to let her go... .(I forced the breakup)

But this drug attachment is so crazy that I still stuck in here. Today 3months have passed since the break up... .2 weeks no contact!

What can I do more than hurting and be anxious every day?

Happy new year to all of you... .

Time I promise. Don't go to her level I'm at week 3 nc and it's been tough because every day another layer is revealed to the depth of her evils but I know I'm winning and forever she will be the one obsessed with me. Mine lives almost next door! Imagine day and night having to still witness her reckless act and not say a word. All three of mine have used the exact same childish tricks but this time I didn't get sucked back in her web the nc is toughest but I'll have moved on and she will have not had the pleasure of seeing the damage or recovery all she gets is the new me better than ever and you will as well. Keep your head up and look ahead its going to be better than ever I'm sure. Happy 2016!

It's tough.  I mean, I expected her to act like we never existed, but c'mon... .can you get a little more N than that, please?  To ask someone how they're doing (in a soft, compassionate tone might I add) only to put your hand up and shut them down just to show them you're in control?  Geez.

Luckily I haven't been 1-1 her since that moment, but here it is several hours later and I'm still upset over it.  I know it doesn't do me any good to be really, I just can't help it as of the moment.

Yeah. Hang in there today. Its so true. They force you to leave and them blame you for it, like love is supposed to mean being willing to be destroyed by them. Nevermind that to stay would be to agree to a reality where we have no worth, that we are a people who accept the devaluing things they do, which would of course make them hate us. They create an impossible situation and foist blame onto us when really, we are the ones taking responsibility for it stopping... .responsibility we wouldn't be forced to take if they shared the load for making a relationship healthy. So dammm unfair. But you know all that, and you will rise above all day because honestly, you have more information on how to be healthy. Unlike her, you can stay grounded, back up, see the whole dynamic, and choose a different experience. The anger is real and valid. Just part of the toll on the road out, just part of the traffic trying to get out of BPDtown, as you wisely opt out of the crazy and the harm. Keep driving, windows down. The horizon stretches before you, and her doing donuts in the parking lot just gets smaller and smaller and smaller in the rearview mirror.

Hi LA,

I'm with you---it's so d**n hard not to react reflexively!  Plus I can't imagine having to contend with this in the workplace.

My New Year's resolution---when these situations occur with my ex I've decided to take a step back, a deep breath and regroup before responding.  I've found that by doing so I've been able to muster some empathy for the disorder which tempers any response that I might regret.

Example---I texted my ex Merry Xmas and Happy New Year a couple weeks ago.  No response.  Additionally, out of sheer coincidence of circumstances, I ended up helping her daughter for about seven hours on a physics project.  No thank you.  However, she had no problem texting to let me know that she was in LA last week for New Year's Eve (ostensibly with my replacement) at the same location where we had spent one of our most romantic and memorable weekends together.  What the heck?  Really?  Ordinarily I would have been tempted to fire off a blistering response.  Instead, I let some time pass to reassess and since I was planning to officially part ways with her anyway (I'm kind of an end-of-the-year type of guy), I responded with a very high road/tasteful/constructive thanks for everything and have a great New Year goodbye text.  Her response---"I was just letting you know that I'm there and it is the neatest spot.  I've been done for months."  True to BPD form---she still wanted it to appear as though she left me before I had the chance to officially leave her.  Sigh.

Hang in there, LA---you'll grow stronger and develop more resolve and confidence in your approach with each passing day.

LF

Well, I had figured it was going to be rough waters when I had to work in her department.  It was the first time since the shutdown, so I did what I always do when I'm going to be in her department working: I brought her dept coffee.  I'm a coffee guy and that's just what I do.  So she didn't feel I was "mistreating" her, I brought her a cup as well.  I know what she drinks, so that's what I got her (along with others, just so we're clear).  She proceeded to get money out of her purse and said "here".  I refused the money (I always do if someone offers).  When I refused, she said "take the money.  I don't want your coffee and I certainly don't want you paying for it."   I said to her in return "you don't have to drink it if you don't want it, but I bought everyone coffee like I always do and I'm not going to take your money."  With that she huffed, spun around in her chair, and started snap chatting (literally, I saw her all happy smile selfie).  I went back to what I was doing.

The 1-1 time didn't come until later.  In my opinion she wasn't nice then, either.  Yes, I realize I was the one who said we weren't going to be personal anymore.  I have my reasons for that, punishment not being one of them.  We even talked about how we were going to handle work related contact... .which completely went out the window with our first work encounter.  Each day that passes though, I feel myself getting more and more angry with her behavior.  I realize she's mentally ill but enough is enough already.  In this moment, I don't know what I ever saw in her.  She has certainly became a different person since the 1st.  Maybe it's a defense mechanism or maybe it's the fact that she actually never meant a word she ever said to me.  I simply don't (and won't ever) know.

I'm curious LA, if the roles were reversed how would you feel?  While your reasons for the change in your relationship status are good ones, it is still fundamentally a rejection in her eyes and would be in your eyes too. 

Hi Lonely_Astro,

Did you feel angry when she refused the coffee? I think that she's being rude and that it makes her look bad. You're the coffee guy. I wouldn't take it personal.

I have tried to empathize with her, I have.  I simply can't.  The entire fracture of the r/s was brought on by her.  Back in late Sept, everything with us was going good.  I was available to her anytime she wanted (like she always claimed to wanted, anyway), we were getting along, and things were going good.  She had just started DBT, which she said was hard on her and I was supportive.  Come the first part of October, she completely shut me out for a day and then argued with me the day after.  We never recovered after that.  I still have no idea (though I suspect) why there was a fracture, but it happened.

It wouldn't be until late November that we would actually meet face to face to talk (I begged and begged to just see her outside of work).  I knew in October that we were ending, I had just hoped I was wrong.  In our talk in Novemeber she ended the evening (after I asked her if she wanted to end it) by saying "I don't want this to be over.  We'll work through this, we always do."  Less than 2 weeks later, she went on 2 dates with a guy, R.  So much for "working it out" it seemed.

So, I tried.  I tried for awhile.  I can't imagine how I would feel if the roles were reversed because frankly I'm not mentally ill.  Would I be sad?  Yes.  I would also be upset with myself because I was the cause of the r/s failure.  I also didn't lie/mislead her like she did me.  I was always open/honest with her about whatever she wanted to know (sometimes when I would start talking to her about something, she would shut it down by saying "I don't want to know, stop".  Then she later got mad because I "wouldn't tell her anything" - forget that she always shut it down).


I didn't feel angry, I felt hurt.  She had told me when I ignored her 4 years ago it hurt her that I wouldn't acknowledge her.  So, this time, I brought her coffee (acknowledge her existence) and she got mad.  I meant it as a good gesture, perhaps she saw it as I meant it with some sort of malice.  I brought coffee a lot during the past year because a) I wanted to and b) my dept worked close with hers this year.  But her reaction was totally uncalled for and her purposely snap chatting in front of me was fully intended to invoke an emotional response to me (we had had many conversations about her and her phone in the past).  It was just... .rude (and hurtful to me).

Lonely_Astro,

It sounds like you are a supportive person. It's hard for people sometimes to talk about honest and true feelings because they may feel like you will think about them differently and reject them. Some people have insecurities and I think that we can't set our expectations on others.


It was immature of her. My advice is to depersonalize her behaviors.

Can you explain how to "depersonalize her behavior" when I see the behavior as personal?  I don't mean that in an argumentative kind of way, I just don't understand what you mean exactly.

How about indifference? Become indifferent to her behaviors. You neither hate it or like it. Make sense?

this is part of radically accepting a person. of course her actions, toward you, feel very personal.

"its not personal" doesnt mean it didnt happen between the two of you. it means her behavior is hers, and more about her, and her personality, than you or yours.

one of my best, closest friends struggles with empathy and i can pretty much count on him to make incredibly insensitive, invalidating statements. of course it bugs me, sometimes really bugs me, but its not personal in that thats who he is, he does it to everyone, its not about me. if i accept his behavior as part of him(dont engage, and avoid creating that opportunity), it improves our relationship and i dont get resentful toward him, for being him.

edit: perhaps more applicable, my ex cheated on me. that is between us, so its inherently personal. in fact to my knowledge, shes never cheated on partners before me. doesnt that make it more "personal"? it might. my actions or lackthereof could have played some role (or not). that wouldnt make her cheating okay, cheating goes against my personal values in that i dont believe its ever "okay" to cheat. did she cheat because im a bad guy or a failure, or because i am someone that deserves to be cheated on? absolutely not. she had her reasons, and her behavior, and all of that belongs to her, not me.

learning about BPD helped me depersonalize the cheating; for one it is not an uncommon behavior. there are many, common reasons, a pwBPD may cheat. i see it less as the love of my love betraying me, and almost more an inevitability.

Oh.  Yes, that's the end goal isn't it?  Indifference.  I'm not there, yet.  I will be one day (I was that way a year ago before we started up again).  

This year we were closer than we were before.  It makes the discard more difficult.  I guess what upsets me the most is the utter lack of being a human being I've seen from her since October really.  I wasted so much time I'll never get back and she's acting like a complete tool to boot.  I wish she would quit.

I feel the same way you do, astro, about all of that.

I want to be indifferent but then i see or hear her at work and the feeling in my body just changes to anxiety. it's a physical feeling.

and she hasn't been a real human being to me since october. Sure, she replies to texts but besides that i'm dead to her.

i wish she would quit, too!

LA,

Depersonalization is probably the hardest concept for us to process and accept.  I suspect it's because the vast majority of us are caring, giving and supportive so the thought of being subject to harsh emotional behavior (which most of the time isn't warranted) is foreign.

Over time I've approached it this way (I'll use my recent post of my ex texting me about her New Year's Eve trip with my replacement to a location in LA where we had spent one of our most memorable weekends together as the proxy):

---Remember that most pwBPD have the emotional maturity of a toddler---my ex's text was characteristic of how a youngster would react or respond when angry with the intention to inflict hurt or harm.  If she was emotionally mature this text never would have been sent. Again---it wasn't about me personally---anyone in my position at that time would have received the same text.

---Unstable relationship norms due to the disorder---would I have ever sent a text like that to her?  Nope.  Beyond the maturity issues are basic relationship tenets that pwBPD refuse to observe.  Again---it wasn't about me personally as anyone else would have received the same treatment.

What I'm trying to say is that over time I've lowered the expectation bar significantly to prevent being disappointed by my ex's behavior.  In fact, I almost can anticipate a response prior to actually receiving one which sets the expectation level accordingly and lessens the emotional impact.

Does this completely eliminate all of the hurt?  Of course not, but in a peculiar positive respect the takeaway would be that our ex's still care about us otherwise we wouldn't be subject to all of this  :)!

LF

The sad part is I know that's exactly why she is continuing to hurt me when she can.  She still cares about me.  Twisted and screwed up as that is, I know it's true.  It makes me upset to know that she cares but can't (and won't) do anything to fix the problems.  J is a little different than most on here, it seems.  She's fully aware that her behavior is wrong (she'll tell you that).  She just doesn't do anything to stop/change it.  Then she'll get mad and punish you for what she did (all the while saying she knows what she did was wrong/bad).

Like now, for instance.  She did a lot bad to me this year.  But even in the end, it was me leaving her.  Even trying to be nice and keep my routine (buying coffee), she "punished" me for it.  And you know what?  I'm letting her, aren't I?  I'm here on this board talking about my problems why she's sitting around smiling and snap chatting without a care in the world.  It's taking a huge amount of restraint to just not corner her and let it all rip.  It's so ridiculous that I have to go through this in my own head because she's the one that's screwed up.

Huff... .

LA, she's angry at you for not conceding to her need to keep you in orbit.  From what you have said she is probably also angry at herself.  Let her be angry ... .recognize it for what it is, don't embody it.

Logically, I know that's exactly what it is (on both accounts).  Emotionally, I can't just seem to shake it.  I want to get back to my normal self, my normal routine, my normal life if you will.  I just can't seem to get her out of my head though.  The wound just won't seem to close right now.

LA,

It will take time---especially since you share the same work environment---but you will do it. 

Keep in mind that J is a toddler emotionally.  I'm not excusing but just trying to reframe her behavior.  As C. Stein commented, she's pouting like a youngster since you removed one of her favorite toys from her reach.  The adult response would be to discuss and sort thru matters.  Her response?  Smiling and snap chatting---just like how my kids would behave emotionally when they were much younger, didn't get their way and hadn't the maturity to react otherwise. 

Stay neutral, confident and positive and you'll find your normal routine before you know it.

LF

You and me both and I haven't seen or heard from mine since Oct.  Sometimes it all seems like a dream, like she isn't really gone even though logically I know she is.  It pisses me off to be honest ... .everything about it pisses me off right now.  I'm just pissed off and sad/depressed ... .what a f'd up combination. 

It's one thing I try to keep in mind constantly: she's emotionally a toddler.  Then I start to feel weird because we were physical with each other.  Creeps me out now that I think about it.  Legally, she's an adult.  Emotionally she isn't.  I feel used and like I took advantage of her.  But, that's a different topic all together.

You are correct.  The adult thing to have done would've been to have said thanks for the coffee and went on.  I would've been fine with her saying "you didn't have to do that, but thank you" or something to that affect and we could've went on with our day.  But, no.  She had to throw a tantrum in front of my fellow co-workers and be quite nasty verbally (she emphasized the 'you' words: "I don't want you're coffee... ." and  "I certainly don't want you to pay for it".

I did see her briefly today as I passed by.  She wasn't as put together today and had on no makeup.  She also had a sorry look on her face (she was on her work telephone).  When she noticed I was passing by, she looked up, half smiled and waived at me.  Just weird.  I did waive back.  She may have treated me like trash, but I won't stoop to her level in the end.  I still want to chew her out, though.


I'm with you.  I am both angry and sad at the same time.  I'm angry for a crap ton of reasons.  I'm also sad it's over.  But what I'm more sad than anything is that she felt the need to present herself as someone she's not for no legitimate reason.  I know I can't blame her 100%.  In the beginning, I think she honestly believed we would make it this time.  She believed everything she told me, right up until it wasn't true anymore.  Than she was coward for not getting rid of me.  That's when I start to get angry.  She used me and then had the audacity to say I was the one using her.  Ugh.  Just typing it makes me want to walk up to her tomorrow and give her the what for in front of God and Country.

LA,

But what I'm more sad than anything is that she felt the need to present herself as someone she's not for no legitimate reason


She believed everything she told me, right up until it wasn't true anymore.


Sadly, so true that these are such common characteristics of the affliction.   You could replace "J" with "A", or "B" or "C" and so on and the end result would still be the same.  We've all had the same experiences only with different names, ages and locations.  I know this is becoming a tired yarn but don't take it personally.  She simply doesn't possess the emotional skill set to behave in an adult manner.

Give it time, LA.  I realize that we all want to fast forward the healing process but you will experience higher highs and higher lows as you move ahead.  Have a great weekend!

LF

Thanks, LF.  Hope you have a good weekend as well. 

I know that 6 months from now or a year from now J will be a memory to me.  She'll always have a special place in my heart because she is special to me.  I may or may not be special to her.  I suspect I am, in her own twisted way (something she even said).  She also said to me that she knew she had to let me go because she would always hurt me and I didn't deserve that.

That would've been nice to have known prior to another attempt at a romantic r/s. 

Yeah. Hang in there today. Its so true. They force you to leave and them blame you for it, like love is supposed to mean being willing to be destroyed by them.[/quote]
... .mine said I didn't love Jesus the right way and it would affect our kids. It's convincing in some ways, if it wasn't something else the four or five times before that. Anyway, I either had to change my relationship with God so it meets her standard or we're through (the end).

A perverse side of me wanted to fake a "conversion" -- not to get her back, just to see what the next 'deal-breaker' turned out to be.

I think that there are two ways that you can look at this. There are a lot of lessons that we can learn about ourselves in relationships with what we put out there in the world that we can take with us moving forward.

I know how invalidating that can feel when our ex partner's are acting like a tool because she can't put herself in your perspective and assess how her behaviors may hurt your feelings. I would feel hurt too. A pwBPD have low emotional intelligence, difficulties managing their own emotions and understanding the emotional state of others.


That's right. As I said earlier, we can look at this more than one way and not let her behaviors affect you down the road with radical acceptance. I see ex snap chatting without a care in the world again  

Hmmm, yes.  I am sad about this as well, but more angry than sad.  Reason being I know she feels that it was me who misrepresented myself to her.  She just cannot seem to grasp/see/understand the impact her behavior had on me or how it affected my own behavior towards her (i.e. distancing, withdrawal).   Instead of taking responsibility for her behavior and actions it is easier to blame me for not being the "person" she fell in love with, presumably so she can justify what she did this year to me ... .  the likely emotional affair, eventual discard and lightning quick "new" relationship. 

I am all but convinced in her eyes she believes she was wronged by me and she is the victim.  This is what she needs to tell herself (and probably others) so she can feel righteous.  She does play the victim role like a professional.  She just can't seem to understand the emotional impact of betraying a persons trust, not only with regard to truth and honesty but more importantly with regard to emotional trust.   She has likely convinced herself of all the lies she has told herself to the extent she doesn't even know the real truth anymore. 

Astro:

I just posted this on the saving board after a very intense session with my T yesterday. Lately I've been wanting to get back into my relationship with my ex. he explained why I shouldn't and how I should deal with the fantasy thoughts i have of her and how I have to see her at work ever day.

here's my post:

He laid it out like this - he's had a number of patients dealing with BPD exs and he knows the odds of them getting together and working out aren't great. Sure, some make it through, but for the most part we all know how they go. He asked me if I was ready to put her behind me. I said yes. He called my BS and said no you're not but you need to take steps to be. He said if we ever got back together it would be shorter than the first time and it would not be as good and it would end with even more pain. He also warned me about if we got back together she might try to get pregnant - he's had this happen to at least five patients in the past - and then I'd be stuck for the rest of my life dealing with an ex - because it wouldn't last - and a kid. And that scared the heck out of me.

So how do I deal with the fantasy thoughts and seeing her at work? He told me whenever I have a good memory about it her make sure I follow it up with a bad memory. Like - she played a big part in the destruction of my marriage, she hurt me more than anyone has, and she threw me away. I'm gonna work on that when I see her or think good things about her.

He went so far as to look in my eyes and call her the devil.

I've felt different since yesterdays session. More in control. Will that change in an hour when she shows up at work? Probably a little, but I know what I have to do to make each day better. 

I think distractions are great. I think meeting new people is great. I hurt, sure, but I need to find normal women and have strong relationship. I have a second date on Saturday night and a first date on Sunday. Just getting out there and meeting new people and seeing where things go.

It's time to rebuild and recover. We deserve better. We don't deserve to continually wonder if our BPD ex will ever want to get back with us.

It's their loss.

It's our victory.

I was always anxious after J and I were physical.  I had always wondered in the back of my mind the 'what if' she came to me and said she was pregnant.  Being a dad isn't what scares me, I'm already one.  What scared me would be the aftermath of that.  I mean, I had my doubts about her and M to start with, then add in N and B.  I would have little choice to ask for a blood test (therefore adding a whole new set of drama to the equation - simply because I requested it - she wouldn't focus on the why I asked because I should've "trusted her" as she always put it).  Then, there is the entire hormonal changes that would occur.  She was hard enough to deal with, I can only imagine what the hormonal stress (and just general stressors) that a pregnancy would put on her.  She would always sense my anxiety about it (and we did talk about it).  It was one thing I concealed from her, the deep rooted reason why I was anxious (I told her it was my issue and has been since my teenage years, which was a 1/2 truth).  The deep truth was I didn't trust her to take her pills like she should... .it was always in the back of my mind.  Please keep in mind that it wasn't I was afraid to have kid(s) with her.  No.  I was afraid to have a kid with her under those circumstances.

But, there were things that eased my mind.  The truth is she couldn't afford to get pregnant.  I don't mean that financially, either.  I mean she would have to explain to her mom, M, B, R, me, (and whoever else I didn't/don't know about) what had happened and then she would have to 'pick' one of us.  That would immediately shut down the others as well.  That is the sole reason I feel she kept up with her bc... .she didn't want to become pregnant.  She had told me that she had had a miscarriage early in the marriage to M.  She claims he was glad because he didn't want "another mouth to feed and she'd be a horrible mom".  Whether any of that was true or not, I have no idea.  Plus she was always on the fence about being a parent, anyway.  She would talk about how one day "when she had kids" and then the very next day she would be talking about how she never wanted them (fear of rejection from them, making them 'bad', etc).  But, I was always relieved when Aunt Flo came to visit.  It's been several months since we were physical and I know Flo has came every month like clockwork.  So, theres some relief.  But, that's an entirely different topic of discussion. 

I have started doing the good/bad thoughts already.  I will think about how she bought me this gift or how we did this or how great that was but I will immediately taint that with something bad (usually several things) she did to me.  Over the past few days I have grown more angry toward her than anything.  Simply because of how she led me to believe something she knew wasn't true and then blames it on her disorder.  No, it's not the disorders fault, it's J's fault.  She chose to do those things instead of walking away.  All of this has been by her choice.  She may have regretted the actions after the fact, but she chose, in those moments to do what she did.  She chose to lie to me about M.  She chose to lie for an entire month about B.  She chose to keep me in limbo while dating R.  Those were her choices.  Then she has the nerve to tell me it was my choice to leave her.  What the F ever.

I had to interact extremely briefly with her at work today and it was not really a positive experience.  What I mean was I had to ask her for something and she was extremely hateful and short with me.  I didn't react positive or negative to it.  I basically just ignored the tone.  She didn't really say anything else, got me what I needed, and then spun back around, turned her country music up loud and started singing like she was rocking out in her car or something.  I found the entire thing bizarre.  Plus, it seems that the dressing nice is over for this week.  She was wearing no makeup, her glasses (which she always said she "hated", a sweatshirt, and jeans.  So it seems like the couple of days she dressed up nice was either to show me what I was missing, she had a date, or she just felt like it.  Of course, knowing her like (I thought) I do, she was doing it to flaunt herself to me.

I don't know if it's anger, detachment, or something else... .but she just doesn't hold the allure to me she did even a couple of weeks ago.  Do I agree with your T saying she's the devil incarnate?  I see her more as a succubus or harpy at this point.  She did a lot of evil things to me, but unlike herself, I can get away from her where she can't.  Still, I want to chew her out... .hopefully that'll subside soon enough and indifference will settle in.

The dark side of impulsivity.  Actions with little or no thought to the consequences of those actions.  Once the consequences come back and slap her in the face, then the excuses, finger pointing, shifting of blame, etc... .Anything to avoid taking responsibility for her own actions ... .and it doesn't matter who gets trampled in the process.

This is where I begin to see J's let say, um, psychopathic ASPD traits start to show up.  While she's not diagnosed ASPD (or that she's told me so, anyway), she shows traits of it.  What I mean is she told me once that she never did anything on impulse.  She said she never did anything she didn't want to do.  So, using that logic if true, she willfully hurts others.  She has demonstrated several of the symptoms of ASPD throughout the year.  No, I'm not trying to add a diagnosis and I know there is overlap in cluster b disorders.  Simply what I'm saying is that while J may truly be BPD, she is acutely aware of her condition/diagnosis but this doesn't stop her from disregarding 'right' from 'wrong', lacking empathy, and frequently violates the rights of others by using dishonesty/misrepresentation.

I refuse to give her a 'pass' simply because she had a PD.  She could 'get better' (as she often says she wants to), she just doesn't want to really. 

I'm in a different mindset today. One of change. One of why do I care so much about this girl? I'm done with her. Done concerning myself with her. As my therapist said yesterday - she's the devil. She blew up my life, hurt my so deep, and then threw me away.

there's no fixing her. She'll be like this forever and now she can be someone else's problem.

Let's just forget about these women. There are so many other good ones. Let's call it F-Off Friday and just push forward and not look back.

who's with me?

Yes, Anez.  She will always be broken and there's no 'fixing her'.

In the spirit of FIF, I'm going to prepare me one of my favorite dishes, put on Fool That I Am by Etta James, drink a pint to honor the good times, another to the bad, and close this chapter of J and me.  I can't say I won't have my down times, but she's ruled my emotions long enough.  I'll still be active on the board, that's what we're all here for after all.

Do something good for yourself tonight, ok?

Will do, Astro.

I still have to do that talk with mine tonight, but I'll do "S*ck It Saturday"!  :)

There ya go, maple! Good luck tonight.

I just wrote a goodbye note in a big special book about my fav band, one I introduced to her and that she said she liked and got her through tough times, for my birthday and went outside and threw it in an empty trash bin that had 4 inches of rain in it.

So long!