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What are the most important red-flag's to remember?

I'm doing some serious core work now where I'm building self compassion, and addressing the root of the attraction, but for the life of me, I still find myself attracted to women with issues.

Here are some that I've identified, what are your top 5?

1. Mirroring. Eg her opinion on what makes a healthy relationship started off quite different to mine. She's now saying exactly the same as.mine, to the word. Nothing is so attractive as looking in the mirror 

2. Off comments about personality. Eg she said " You've taken the last little bit of personality that I had" 

3. Projection. Eg "It's your fault... ."

4. Mommy or Daddy issues. Eg fixated with her father. Worships him almost. Detached from her mother.

5. Push and pull behaviour.  Eg.  If I'm having an off day. She throws some drama into the mix which adds pressure on me, or hurts me on top of the already tender spot.

1. Blaming their own feelings on everyone else/saying I caused them to feel a certain way.

2. Push/pull - never experienced six or more break-ups/make-ups before, never gonna let myself do it again.

3. Selective memory less/disassociation. I'm sure it is real and unpleasant, but so is being accused of taking things that were given as a gift.

4. Rarely apologizing. For anything.

5. Accusations that are not founded in reality, and take away my own agency in any situation (e.g. They would tell me: "everything you do is from some unconscious reason that even you don't know, but *I* do".

#4 reay gets to me. No apologies!

1. Extreme Pressure - through marriage, sexual exploits, drugs. Not giving in leads to guilting and is a sign of abandonment

2. Discussing exes ad nauseum

3. Dangling other prospects over your head

4. Flat out TELLING YOU how messed up they are

1. Suicidal ideation

2. Mixed signals

3. Rushing the relationship

4. Family issues

5. Badmouthing exes

6. Stories that don't add up

7. Rages out of nowhere

Great topic!

Many of mine will be repeated with the rest of you, I am sure!

1.   Incessant talking about exes and every other woman he ever had sex with. Life stories shared with me. Yuck.

2.   Crying ‘victim’ after 10, 20, and 30 years after an event. Doing nothing to change the circumstances.

3.   Immediate anger and defense when asked for clarification of something that did not make sense (caught in LIES).

4.   Mixed signals.

5.   Rushing the relationship; did not want to cohabitate after 1.5 years. I had to marry him. Uh….no.

6.   Breaking up (“I’m DONE! I will get my things this weekend!”) at every minor issue. Next day, “Hey, sorry I was upset last night…... ”

7.   Telling me that he can’t change at age 52 and I needed to get to a place of “zero defense” towards him. (?)

8.   Literally cuddling so tightly, it felt like he was trying to crawl INSIDE my skin! SMOTHERING ME.

9.   After being caught doing the wrong thing, installed a track app acting like it would help me but he was tracking ME! Ugh.

10.   Claiming an “anti-conflict personality”, only to erupt into blinding rages over nothing (that I could see through the prism of my Reality).

11.   Blocking phone numbers, blocking profiles from social media, locking the phone, taking the phone into the bathroom, constantly glancing at it like it was going to jump up and bite him.

12.   Idealizing his daughter and trying to pretend his son does not exist; while they are in the same room.

13.   Projecting his bad behavior onto me as if I did those things.

14.   And the biggest one at the beginning……… “I am a chameleon.”

5. YES YES AND YES! I wanted to move in together before getting married. She said that we would be "just roommates." ?

6. I also frequently heard the "I'm coming up on Sunday to get my things." THIS time around though, she leaves all of her things up here and we haven't spoken in over 2 months! ?

wow; there must be a handbook they read from! Each time he did that, even when we made up, I had him take stuff with... .

The last time he pulled the "I'm getting my things Sunday!" I calmly told him that EVERYTHING will be in my driveway on Saturday (this was after T-giving and his ugliness). I didn't put them out there though, (too much crap plus a motorcycle). I knew this was winding down and my heart hurt. He took it all. Nothing left. Then, just over the holidays he informed me he would like to have shoes, clothing, and sundries at my house for convenience. I said nothing because I knew it was going to end by midmonth January. My tolerance for BS is on empty. It was easy with no items to keep them hooked. I put him on his proverbial horse this past Sunday for the last time. One bag full of cooking items and off he went. He is still stunned.

1) Extreme sexual promiscuity (double penetration, organizes orgies, sex with complete strangers in an arrangement based on a photo)

2) Likes to humiliate and be humiliated in sex - BDSM, asked for a "golden shower", likes to penetrate men.

3) No relationship without cheating.

4) Most relationships long distance to avoid intimacy and be found out as what she is.

5) Self revelations of dark side - I'm a monster, I'm a Nazi, I'm afraid of being myself.

6) Mental issues - psychosis ("the walls are moving", panic attacks (triggered by a movie), mental breakdowns (due to too much work)

7) Constant triangulation, mentioning of exes, lining up orbiters.

8) Lack of respect to privacy (looked over the content of my suitcase)

9) Lies

10) Impaired speech (would start mumbling when spoke about embarrassing issues like an abortion.

11) Self esteem that will range from "I'm total" to "I AM the".

12) Extreme mirroring during love bombing ("I started talking like you" "I'm using your gestures", taking on hobbies and interests)

13) Initially moving relationship very quickly.

14) Devaluation stage - invalidation, disrespect.

15) Devaluation stage - Games in communication, hot / cold , texting other guys when she's with you, keeping orbiters.

16) Walking the edge - pushing you away and once you show signs of leaving, start pulling you back in.

17) History of trauma - early divorce of parents, abandoning father, anorexia as a teen, sexual harassment as a teen, leaving home early, fluctuations in relationship with parents, alcoholic mother, had an abortion during early 20s.

18) Lack of emotions when otherwise would be expected (didn't care at all when I broke up with her)

19) Most disgusting discards with all exes boyfriends and lovers.

20) Extremely seductive and uses sex to control others.

21) Quick tempered.

22) Lack of any shame, superficial remorse for past wrong doing.

23) Frequent use of drugs as a teen ("there were drugs everywhere"

24) Selfishness, lack of warmth outside of the bed.

25) Quickly to declare that we're soul mates then fell in love with someone else in 4 days. LOL.

PARTIAL LIST. WE ONLY SPENT 20 DAYS TOGETHER, over a 6 months long distance relationship.

Good thread Moselle!

1.  Triangulation/flirting.

2.  Idealising/devaluing exs and children.

3.  Lack of recognition of any responsibility in problematic past relationships.

4.  Control, however passive.

5.  Undermining comments disguised as helpfulness.

6.  Rapid idealisation.

7.  Intermittent communication.

8.  History of mental illness in the family.

9.  Over-the-top reaction to perceived criticisms/put downs from strangers.

10. History of adultery.

11. Too much information about intimacy re previous relationships.

12. Immaturity.

- you having to explain basic acceptable behaviour

- arguments that leave you confused or doubting yourself

- history of abusive or unhealthy relationships

- bad breakups

- claiming to have supernatural interactions (spirits, demons etc)

- cluster headaches (some research suggests a large number of sufferers display personality disorder symptoms)

- being stalked by ex's

- lives filled with drama

- erratic emotions

- problematic childhood

- impulsive decisions

- lack of empathy

- openly discusses sex with just about anyone

- alienating partners

- tries to dominate the relationship

- naivety

- constantly makes new friends, mostly with the opposite sex

- exceptionally high libido, has extreme fantasies (to the point where you question their self respect)

- needs to be the centre of attention

- uses looks / seduction to manipulate men

- can't be alone

- plays the victim

- claims to have cheated previously

- claims to hate themselves

- deceitful

- feeling they can't be trusted

- seeking out sex after a good cry

- creates drama to push you away

- having groupies / orbiters

- seeks attention

- immature / childish

- a feeling of disconnect when you're with them

- inappropriate discussions about past sexual encounters or ex's

- deliberately tries to make you jealous

- comes from a broken home

- overly sensitive to criticism

- gets over hurt with relative ease

- not showing remorse / guilt

bAlex, if it wasn't clear you were talking about a woman instead of a man, i'd say we dated the same exact person.

i'd add:  rapid clear cycling through the same patterns over and over, that clearly illustrates an unwillingness to sit with any sort of bad feeling, guilt, or clarity of self-perception (i.e., extreme outburst of anger, followed by remorse, followed by negation of any sort of 'understanding' they appear to achieve in the remorse cycle, followed by blaming of others/projection, followed by forgetting anything that happened at all, repeat... .)

Incredible I experienced all of these except 11 and 12 - he doesn't have children. Only he is a "collage" instead of a chameleon and "anti-conflict personality" is "lovingly and compassionately." Number 7 was saved for recycling attempts apparently. He wants to be together with me again and says we should focus on important things and think about how we can "add value" (argh!) to each others' lives and for this, I need to accept him fully (fully means his compassionate friendship with exes (i.e. lying to them about my sex life etc), his active addiction, and all these above, all of which are of course my fault.)  We were together for 2.5-3 months, what value?

Thisworld,

I am impressed you wised up sooner than later!  |iiii

lol!  I was thinking something similar... I'm willing to bet some ppl here have dated the same person.

That last part about seemingly forgetting and repeating... so true.

JaneStorm,

My ex also has strong narcissistic traits (somatic), was your partner narcissistic, too? I'll try to make a list of narcissistic red flags as soon as I can collect my thoughts, actually.

My ex was overtly difficult from early on - though we had a beautiful 1 month period, albeit with narcissism. I attributed his problems to addiction but then realized that it wasn't only that. basically, there is nothing I can reasonably do with this guy, he doesn't realize that I'm a separate being. He didn't say anything with "how about you? and you?" etc. Not once. Never. With all this emotional turmoil, he is also the most demanding human being I've ever encountered, only he demands sadly and in a pained way sometimes. A failed narcissist really.  

Yes, I often think about this, too. Even the dialogues are very similar. And I live at the other end of the world. Incredible.

No, he is not NPD. Although, he was selfish. When angry, we all have narcissistic characteristics. He is very sweet. He is self-involved but I would not say he was NPD.

My exUBPD crashed my car right before the last push, and remarked they thought it was strange they didn't feel guilty. I asked what they would do if I had crashed their car, and they said they wouldn't speak to me. Different realities, I suppose.

It s incredible how repetitive is the pathology of BPD s. It seems to me that all of us shared time with the same demon.

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy. If a girl is worthy you have to pursue her if they pursue you they want something. To stop this we need to be more assertive.

Doesn't buy food/groceries- depends on others

Family /friends never visits - it takes some serious issues for no holiday visits one way or the other

Been sexually assaulted at some point or claims to be in my cases by "thuggish types ".So sexual assault def red flag and seeking risky situations.

Any assortment of medication or clinical history of mental illness. Duh

As stated many times MIRRORING! Trying to read you and playing off that theatrical style. "She seems so familiar " we're like peas n a pod etc. she's playing us.

Secretive texts - keeping options open keeping the chain going backups "just friends "you guys know what I mean.

Loves the "rough stuff " definitely red flag mean she enjoys abusing and degrading herself.

Wow... .all with mine except point 3- except my replacement was a murder felon that was in jail for 27 yrs. She hangs around and hires these people to work for her... .then lets them hang over at her house with her 3-5 year old kids.  JEEZ

That's why we needn't wish any harm they will do it to themselves unfortunately.

I was thinking about this the other day too... thought it seemed a little odd in hindsight.

Predators

forgot to mention

- things like pets take preference over you

- hates routine

- extremely self centered

- hard to keep commitments / deadlines (perhaps unreliable in some ways, always late etc)

- seem to have little depth, avoid deep thoughts

Bingo! 

I'm actually starting to wonder why we are here... .having read the posts no one should realistically want to be around this...

Hey man that's their power the siren song that has brought down many a strong man it happens to the best of us and in my cases it was at a low or boring part of my life they sorta snared me. But it all comes around no way around it and I'm glad to read other experiences people have had and we will survive. BPD or not mean people suck.

Nice posts.

Thanks.everyone.

I also remembered  a few.more.

6. Always got a pain somwhere. Neck, back, knee, head.

7. Awkward silences. Can't talk.about issues in a calm normal voice. Always raised emotionally intense conversations.

8. Recying. Break ups and make ups all the time.

9. Disrespect of boundaries. She said " Boundaries are your thing, not mine"

10. Rules apply to you only.  Eg she has a fallout, when i talk to my female friends. Yet she regularly has meeting with her male friends.

11. Always hurting someone.

12. Claims to be a control freak and a 13itch

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

Well put. The devils handmaiden indeed.

Man that's so true and explains it all. We are not idiots! We know who these girls are they practically yell it out loud "I'm a whore and I'm going to destroy you!"but we enjoy the chaos because of our own issues and self esteem. We wouldn't even be in the path of people like this if we lift ourselves up.

UVA2002, this is correct. There are a number of people on this site who have walked and are walking that path to personal health. To heal the wounds, build a life and thrive. Here'a a link to a site which we can use to track our progress from victim to survivor to thriver.

www.cbwhit.com/Victim-to-survivor.htm


Do we really enjoy it? It seems to fill a gap in our makeup, however. It fulfills a need. For some reason we need a bit of the chaos to arouse our faculties. Perhaps if we worked on finding our own spark we wouldn't need a person like this.

What are your thoughts?

I'm not so sure, I've mentioned before (speaking as a man) that no man would want to give up good sex and a (extremely) sexy woman. I can honestly say that was probably the biggest reason for me to put up with any of it. Think about it, if she wasn't attractive you wouldn't give her or her problems a second of your thoughts. It also felt good to be idealised (by someone that everyone wants) at the beginning... any guy would love that and fight to try and keep it going. I think ppl should be very careful about putting "labels" on themselves, I think it can be destructive, as self blame seems to be a theme after the discard. Rather get a professional opinion if you suspect deeper issues.

In other words, the hotter the girl = the more crap you're willing to put up with.

Might seem shallow, but that's how I see it.

I agree with all of these except for #6. I mean, I have chronic neck pain that hurts all the time, even as I type this. I ain't BPD.  

Hi Moselle

Thanks for the link to cbwhit  - it looks interesting but I can't access it. Says I don't have permission, even on the main site. Is it a private site? It looks like an interesting topic that I'd like to read. Can you give more info about the site or post another link? Thanks.

I thought of another point too: lying about credentials, schooling, past events. Always a red flag in anyone.

One point I don't concur with: back and neck pain. I've got spinal damage and am in more or less constant pain, not BPD though!   

Troisette.

I've compiled the red flags that applied to me:

- projection

- childhood trauma

- push/pull

- selective memory

- rarely apologizing

- discussing exes

- anger out of nowhere

- self revelation of dark side

- lack of respect of privacy

- lack of shame, superficial remorse

- EXTREME jealousy

- deliberately tries to make you jealous

- immaturity

- arguments that leave you confused or doubting yourself

- being stalked by ex's

- lives filled with drama

- lack of empathy

- impulsive decisions

- openly discusses sex with just about anyone

- constantly makes new friends, mostly with the opposite sex

- needs to be the centre of attention

- can't be alone

- having groupies / orbiters

- overly sensitive to criticism

- things like pets take preference over you

- extremely self centered

- hard to keep commitments / deadlines (perhaps unreliable in some ways, always late etc)

- rules apply to you only

And I'm adding the following:

- instant change of opinion of someone or something (black/white thinking)

- inability to resolve fights (fights are over when the anger calms down, not when a solution has been found)

- fear of abandonment

- nothing you do is good enough

- impossible to reason with

That's wierd. It's seems to have gone down today. I can't access it either.

I have it in a spreadsheet to keep tabs on my growth,  so if you want it please PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

Re: the constant pain. I'm sorry to hear that. It must be a huge distraction for you in your life. Just to clarify, I'm not making light of  anybody who experiences body pains.

The kinds of pains I'm referring to are the ones that appear out of nowhere, and similarly magically dissappear and may reappear somewhere else. I'm quite empathic so I would usually give attention to it. Only afterwards when I correlated a similar experience with another pw BPD have I realised that it may be a symptom. Perhaps I'm mistaken on this one ☺

Thanks Moselle - I will pm you.

Realise that you are empathic and did not want to infer a lack of sympathy on your part.   

The pain/spasming thing is interesting. I guess if there is much muscle tension then pain would be a result. On the other hand, it could be neurologically linked with BPD? I started another topic here a few days ago about nighttime spasms, these seem to be not unusual too.

Troisette

True. In my recent BPD girl I was just at a stagnant point in life so it was sorta self esteem issue. This wasn't a girl I would normally classify as super hot just what I needed at the moment I guess. The first girls i experienced these red flags with (undiagnosed pwBPD ) in my 20s they pursued me like game and were attractive. So yeah it was nice to be wanted like that but I realize when I've met girls like this it's when I'm kinda down n the dumps sorta.

Circular ref. Thanks for your list. It's surprising how many of these I can tick off too. I realise however that each pwBPD  is unique and the two that stick out here for me is extreme jealousy and rules only apply to me. Mine refused to accept that I speak to female friends. Cannot condone it, drives her up the wall if I do. Yet she can have coffee with male friends and talks to them often. When I pointed this inequality out to her, it went into orbit.

I just remembered a HUGE one

- sex is emotionally void and meaningless.

she used to say "thank you" after sex, who does that?

also

- LACK of jealousy!

As in none! She always said she's unable to experience it. If that's the case, it goes to show how shallow her emotions really are...

Wow. That's a different disorder I think. Total lack of emotions like that.

no that's BPD to the t as far as unattached sex but the jealous this is usually a mega factor for BPDs. I've seen an emptiness in their eyes I've never seen its just numb.its sad and scary. I swear I think there are times I could have died and she wouldn't blink an eye

. I know it sounds harsh but it's true. It could be anyone their with as long as it satisfies the immediate.

Something that I noticed in hindsight that could also be a red flag: Lack of any close friends. Tons of 'friends', but no one you think she emotionally could open up to. No one still around from high school, college, previous jobs, only current people she knows.

-as soon as you meet them, in the very first conversation they might already start about their troubled life and childhood. yes even sexual abuse. no privacy concerns for them.

-everything is someone else's mistake, they will never own up to anything. they feel entitled to many things, even when it may hurt others. they feel like they are more worthy of it. when someone shows they are being hurt by it, they will lack the empathy to reconsider their actions.

-threatening suicide, disappearing. cutting themselves and showing it off too, to manipulate.

-pregnancy entrapments.

-acting, i mean these people can cry on cue often.

-putting up sad little baby voices, whenever they are confronted with their actions. when that doesn't work. they rage. all though this can be the other way around too.

-they do not logically plan ahead or are able to reason with sense, they jump into whatever decision based on the very emotions they feel right in that moment.

-they will never see your point of view, they might act on it and whine and cry and whatever it is. but their actions don't show it at all. never.

1. They find you... .fall right into your lap, big one for me

2. If something seems too good to be true... .well, it usually is

3. Excessive PDA's (she couldn't keep her hands off me, even after devalue started)

4. Slow and selectively disclosed dramas about past relationships, infidelity etc.

5. Broad gushy statements like "I feel like I can tell you anything"

6. Constantly texting and peculiar attachments to friends and family

7. Blank vacant eyes

8. Big one... .lack of empathy not just for your feelings but for anyone really

1. Secretive life; often would hide from social media, keeping the relationship on the down low.

2. VERY promiscuous past; many partners, involving "hardcore porn" style sex. Humiliation.

3. Absent parent; extreme alienation from the other.

4. No emotion; extreme hate, anger, sadness. Can cry at the drop of a hat. Little happy emotion, and when it does happen, as quick as it came, it was gone.

5. Protective over cell phone; secretive.

6. Never opened up about her past; but quick to divulge how abandoned she's been by every ex including physical contact.

7. No empathy, remorse, sorrow. "It's all about me" attitude. EXTREMELY selfish.

8. Lie after lie after lie after lie. Puzzles pieces never matched, left me second guessing EVERYTHING.

9. VERY manipulative. Extremely cunning but lacks in other common sense areas.

10. Has a career in the "helping" profession.

11. VERY accusatory. Always accused me of the most absurd things; including cheating.

I don't know about lack of emotions. My ex said she had "feelings" towards all her lovers, that's it's never "just sex". The last time we saw each other she was in tears, saying how much she loves me and that she carries me with her. I think they just don't control the flirting and move from one target to the next very quickly.

You see, you say "no emotion " and "cry" in the same sentence. People who don't feel don't cry.

Hinted at loving me and kids after 3 months

Most if not all relationships whether friend or more ended very badly

Her telling me she can "forget" who someone is if she ignores them long enough

People constantly texting her apologies and she didn't know who they were

Almost put in a psych ward

Very childlike baby talk even (her mom did this too she has issues too but not like my ex)

Proclaimed she never has an issue making bfs yet to my knowledge I was the second serious one

Can make guy friends easily but struggles to make girl friends

Does whatever it takes to fit in with others

I could honestly go on for days haha oh and one of the bigger ones

Compliments from me started to hold little to no value compared to compliments from others. One time somebody called her cute and she told me about It I asked her what's the big deal? I call you attractive and beautiful everyday she said. "yeah but youre my boyfriend you're SUPPOSED to feel that way" that messed me up for a while

I meant no positive emotion. Just negative emotion. Can cry, put on a show but the "empathy" displayed never matched the actions. So, I guess you can say good acting skills (of emotion).

Mine said to me once that she feels nothing. Not pleasure and not pain. Nothing. After 4 years of therapy she said she felt pleasure for the first time.  Like a blind person who sees for the first time...

Is this a Borderline trait?

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread. It has given me a real insight into Red Flags, why they are difficult to see sometimes, or we see them but ignore their significance.

I think we often overlook them because of one simple reason only. The next day the red flag is gone, the pwBPD sometimes doesn't even remember it happened, so we we enjoy the good side of them. We become numb or insensitive to the red flags in the FOG

Another reason we overlook them is because we need, want or are addicted to something they have. Amazing sex life, charismatic, charming in a public setting, driven or even needy ( which feeds the rescuer in us). We make a choice to stay because the good outweighs the bad. That's still a choice - ours.

It seems inevitably though, when these relationships enter the hatred phase, the bad outweighs the good, and the break up cycle begins.

What are your thoughts?

it sounds like dissociation from feelings; thats a borderline trait.

*mod*

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