BPDFamily.com

So I last saw my BPDbf 10 days ago. We had a predominantly good night together. However he did display more push/pull behaviour than I've ever witnessed before. His last words to me was telling me how much he loved me.

After which I got the ST. This could have been due to a couple of things I said to him but in all honesty I now realise he was dysregulating before this.

I left him alone for a 1 week and then messaged him asking if he was ok. He replied saying he wanted to talk to me but at the time I was in the middle of something that prevented me from talking to him. He said he would be busy later and would call me the next day. I said ok. My last message was never picked up. After 3 days of him not picking up my message I began to worry if he was OK as previously whilst he's ST'd me he's never not not been on social media at all which was the case. I called him, no answer and messaged that I was worried and can he let me know he's ok. No reply. A day later there is still no sign of him on social media and he's still not picked up my previous message from at this point 4 days ago. So I call again (honestly was getting genuinely worried at this point that something was wrong-we don't have mutual friends).

He answers... .basically the conversation goes(he appeared very calm and spoke with clarity)... .'l been doing a lot of thinking, I don't think the relationship is going anywhere, whilst I am with you its preventing me from meeting anyone else, I don't want to hurt your feelings and let you think it's going somewhere it's not and I think we should not see each other anymore'!

I replied with 'OK, may I ask how you have come to this conclusion'? Response was... .'I don't know, you know how messed up I am'. I said 'ok I understand. However we both know your emotions are up and down, therefore before we both say something we both regret that I then find it hard to forgive you for why don't we have some time out and gather our thoughts and address this when we have thought about it'. He agreed. We went on (very rationally) to discuss a few other things regarding something other than us then we said our good byes.

Now I know that the course of BPD relationships can follow this pattern, what's throwing me off is how calm and clear he appeared to be?

How serious should I take this? Did I respond ok? And what course does this pattern usually follow?

To add our relationship has every potential to have a future and we adore each other. We have a longish distance relationship but see each other weekly and he's always said the distance is not an issue? But I've worried that it really is because he never usually dysregulates when we are together only when we are apart.

Help and advice all welcome pls?

Worst case scenario~ He already has someone else in mind and his mind is focused on "getting out" hence the lack of emotions as its no longer about you, his emotional focus is elsewhere

Better scenario~ lack of positive, or negative emotions may mean he is starting to "dissociate" in order to escape something that is creating intense anxiety. This is an anxiety avoidance coping mechanism.

If he was simply making a point or having issues over it, then it would seem overly cold rather than just neutral

Hi Waverider and thanks for the reply.

The first scenario I am dealing with and intend to get to the bottom of.

Your second scenario I am keen to know a little more about? How does dissociation play out? My understanding with dissociation is that a person would appear to be more 'crazy' but in this case he appears to be totally lucid with what he is saying!

Mmm makes me wonder if scenario 1 is at play here but before I jump to conclusions and make decisions I may regret I would like to cover all options :/

Disassociation typically involves removal of emotional involvement. Sometimes "spacing out" as though they are not even there. Sometimes it may mean a person can deal with issues in an unemotional way as though they are outside the situation and just operating almost by proxy. Reality almost playing out like its only hypothetical, without feel the emotions you would expect, almost numb to it.

What does "get to the bottom of it" look like?

FF

Hi FF

Yesterday get to the bottom of it involved me enforcing that I will not tolerate cheating and will walk away if that's the case. Which I absolutely will do.

Today I'm word wrong if the whole thing was a ploy to get me to react and allow him to project the crazy confusion he feels inside.

Ironic how I didn't react to his first tactic of ST, it then changes to appearing to go MIA, I didn't react and then it changes to a break up. Which stupidly I reacted to.

A couple of days ago I felt clear headed and indifferent to his behaviour. Today I feel confused. Bingo he's managed to get me in the state he wanted, and he is now probably feeling in control again.

I still haven't ruled out the cheating aspect or the possibility that he may have lined someone else up but regardless I need to spend the next few days off loading my confusion by realising that this is his issue to deal with not mine!

Thanks for clarifying the dissociation Waverider. I am not sure I can apply that in this case as he appeared way to normal and lucid.

The option of there being someone else as you know I'm dealing with (not very well but dealing with all the same).

My other option is the need for him to want me in a state of confusion purposely as this is exactly how he feels.

I need to keep in mind that there has been big changes to my behaviour lately so there's a good chance it's similar to an extinction burst. You made an excellent point in your pm about being very clear in my wording and not leaving room for much interpretation as a BPD can twist many things if I leave it to open... .this is exactly what he will do! Lesson learned.

I've been through this cycle many times with my ex. I started reacting less, and it escalated, as you mentioned in the spot I bolded. I'm relatively new to all of this, but my understanding is that he wants to keep you in this state, in part so he has the power to make the choices about things as he sees fit. Looking to him to provide you the peace and stability you need right now will yield nothing but more stress.

In my opinion, your initial words were really good. If it were me, I would attempt to disengage as much as possible. I don't know what exactly that will look like for you, but in my experience, repeatedly contacting them when they just ignore you only hands over your power to them. You aren't going to be able to have a real conversation with him until he's gotten through the dysregulation, so don't try.

Thank you whitebackatcha...

I am new to this cycle as previously I would have got angry and left the relationship and this is the first time I've attempted to work through things and not leave.

I know him from old and if he wanted to end the relationship he absolutely would without any regard for me.

I can't rule out that he doesn't want his cake and eat it, therefore keeping me open as an option whilst exploring others. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast with BPD but not something I will tolerate.

I'm pretty much certain the motive of his recent events is to make me feel disposable, insecure, jealous and inferior so he maintains the control to feel safe.

I have always maintained that when a BPD stops playing there games with you then that's when they are done with you. Although he displays indifference through passive aggressiveness he still covertly plays numerous games to get my attention and reaction.

Whitebackatch I would be interested in you elaborating more about how your cycles played out with your ex that are similar to my experience? What did you believe his ulterior motive was? Did he have someone else? What happened when you did/didn't react? What was the outcome?

It's very helpful when someone has similar experiences!

Hi Lou12  

I've been following your threads and it sounds to me that these push/pull cycles between you and your bf are wearing you down. Building up your emotional resilience by understanding more about your part in this cycle can really help you protect yourself from the confusion and hurt you experience when this happens.

I was reading on the PI board the other day and clicked on a thread about Radical Acceptance. I wasn't going to read the whole article because I thought I knew and practiced aspects of RA in my relationship. I was wrong, this has really helped me reframe my focus on disengagement from my dBPDh's disorder. Have a read and see what you thinkhttps://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0



This second link is about the push/pull cycle in BPD and our role in continuing that dysfunctional dynamic,https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99725.0


Often when we are stuck, we search for answers about the other persons behaviour. The reality is that we don't have answers about that other person, we can't mind read, we can attempt to predict things, but all we really know for sure is what's happening to and in us. It might be really hard to hear that we can't answer your questions about your bf, and this leaves you in that worried place of just not knowing.

So, what can you do to manage these cycles better, that moves the focus of attention away from your bf and back to what your needs are during these times?

I hope you find the links helpful.

Sorry Lou12 I think I banjaxed the links somehow

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99725.0

Sweetheart you know what you are absolutely right. Your post couldn't have come at a better time and is exactly what I needed to hear.

Once again, and after the extensive work I was doing I am getting pulled back into the BPD cycle! Arghh why didn't I see it more, foolish me!

I am going to read and re-read til I realise again that this is his condition and not mine.

I'm annoyed with myself because this is exactly what he wanted me to do (get back to my old ways of dealing with the relationship) by provoking me to react in any way he could.

I am going to write this incidence off as a possible extinction burst on his behalf. Suppose on the upside I was doing something right for him to up the behaviours?

I am going to now go back to focusing on me again :)

 

Focusing on you is where it's always at. |iiii

I'm so sorry you're going thru this, Lou.   Don't blame yourself. We're all doing the best we can, and you're not alone. My uBPDbf has said the exact same things to me - the "we're not meant to be" type speeches - and in the same cold, detached manner - almost always followed by a silent treatment.

Used to be because some girl laughed at his jokes, and he thought she was interested. There were a few, but nothing ever came of them. Looking back, I can see the idea would be quite appealing to him - a chance to be someone different with someone new. Besides I was constantly invalidating him back then. Didn't know about BPD. When he thought the grass might be greener, he would pick a fight with me to clear the path. I think we're past all that now. Now the ST and breakup speeches come mainly after a major dysregulation - when he's stressed and needs someone to blame for it - and when I didn't disengage in time... .

You know in the cartoons where they paint a little door on the wall and run thru it? Then the one chasing him hits the wall? Been there, done that. Got the lumps on my head to prove it.  :) Looney Toons. So don't get lumpy like me! Whatever his reasons, your bf felt a strong need to escape at that moment. Let him. Try not to take it personal and protect yourself by not running thru any imaginary doors after him. It won't make him see the light, and it won't make you feel any better. Just as he painted himself an exit, he can paint himself an entrance. He's the one holding that paintbrush. All you can do for now is take care of YOU. 

|iiii

Very funny, escaping through imaginary doors lol

Lol Jessica you do make me laugh with some of your stories!

Thank you for that message, it really does help when someone can validate what your facing.

I am doing ok and plan to keep my PMA :)

Yes I'm getting another ST but that probably has something to do with the message I sent(I'll pm it to you). Apparently I wasn't very validating :/ oops... I was a little upset!

If you're sending him messages while in ST, or post-breakup, you're likely talking to a wall. It may look like a door, but remember that's a "special" door that only works for him.  *)

I swear, life with BPD really is like a bad cartoon. Angry cat chases clever mouse. Giant rabbit outsmarts his hunter. The tools here have helped make me feel a lot more like the roadrunner and he's the coyote. Every time he comes up with some elaborate plan to drop a piano on my head or blow me up with TNT, he ends up hurting himself with his own Acme bricks. Occasionally, I still get hit with some of the debris, but nothing compared to what he does to himself! I just try to keep running along my merry way... ."meep, meep"

Hahahaha

Oh and it was a message right after. Definitely no more from me :)

Short version, we had a cycle where things were great, there would be conflict, I would rush in to fix it, eventually she would break up, only to come back and start all over. When I started having boundaries and stopped chasing because I received good advice here that I was essentially rewarding her for acting this way, she broke up twice more before finally ending it for several months. I tried to build my life as I wanted it to be. She came back, acknowledged her part in things, and things have been almost completely different this time around. There have been challenges, and she absolutely may leave yet again, but I am taking it one day at a time.

They will never be okay with new boundaries. It makes them uncomfortable. Heck, it makes ANYONE uncomfortable. Choose what is right for you, and he will adapt or he won't.

As far as motives, I think she had a lot of built up resentment from a lot of JADEing and very little true validation on my part. I think she felt smothered by too much intimacy, and that was her way of getting space. It was also just the stress from other parts of her life making her want to control what she could, namely me and our relationship. For her, it wasn't about anyone else.

Lou12, do you mind my asking if you think you are enabling?

This post make me think that perhaps you are feeding into his dysfunction.

Have you defined your values for yourself around his freedom to come and go as he pleases?

Your post makes me think that you have given him permission to victimize you.

I hope you don't mind my being blunt.

Please let me know if I need to soften up a bit.

Hi Unicorn, apols for late reply. I will get around to answering the few messages you have sent, just been so busy :)

Mmm do I think I'm enabling? I suppose here I get confused with enabling, validation and radical acceptance.  I suppose the only way I can evaluate this is being aware of how much of an effect his behaviour has on me. I enable his behaviour by accepting that that is the way he is and I can't change him. For me it's obviously not a boundary issue that he comes and goes because it doesn't affect me all that much anymore, I've kind of removed myself from it mentally. I could make a big deal of the fact that he is in and out my life but I'd have to really be upset about it and I'm not if that makes sense. Every day I'm becoming more accepting to who he is and how it affects me so I suppose that could look a little like enabling?

Hope that makes sense, it does in my crazy mind :)

acceptance and enabling does seem to get blurred. Think of it this way a person does X, we accept we cant stop it so we stop trying (eg. We stop nagging an alcoholic about their drinking). That is acceptance. A person does X, they try to get us to aid them doing X (eg. buying drinks for an alcoholic) even though it does not sit well with us we do it out of fear of conflict. That is enabling.

He comes and goes, you accept it. He comes and goes and you make cover stories for him, bend over backwards to rearrange your life to make it easier for him, that is enabling. At the end of the day it comes down to how it sits with you, and your awareness of the consequences.

At the end of the day you can choose to do anything, even if you choose to do nothing, just as long as its an educated choice.

Inevitably we will all accept a bit, and enable a bit. Its a choice and sometimes the hard path is just not worth the effort, at least in the immediate term, you can't change everything  overnight

Thank you Waverider for clarification, that does help me to clear my vision on enabling and acceptance.

So to answer the question I am now a bit of both.

I could put my foot down and push a boundary of having him in and out my life. For me that would entail leaving him until he got the message that I would not tolerate this behaviour. This I know would work but would take me months to achieve and I'm pretty certain I would achieve this outcome. But I actually don't have all that much of an achievement to conquer this otherwise I would surely do it. So therefore I am accepting that that is how he is but enabling in the sense of I blame it on his BPD.

Some things are just too much of a battle that I am not yet willing to deal with. The overall result is not worth the journey to get there if that makes sense?

All relationship dynamics change over time. You are changing you, so that will increase the change in the relationship. Sometimes enabling today is simply delaying things until some time down the track.

Once you start changing core attitudes you often find some of these other things are just symptoms, even if you can't discern this. These things change as a consequence and it becomes more obvious how you can then proceed from there.

It is good to have a plan of progress, but all plans are subject to revision. It is not possible to have all the right answers from the get go. Stick to the important basics and then follow your nose from there. Most of all dont guilt yourself for not always doing things "by the book". It is better than it was and thats a good start

|iiii

Lou, have you defined your values around the ST? I know for myself that is a deal breaker. I guess the question is why did you let him back in to your life, if you don't mind my directness. Or asked in another way, what made you commit? And is it a one sided or two sided commitment?

Of course I don't mind you asking Unicorn :)

No I can't say I have defined my values around the ST and here's why... .in the past my bf has effectively made worse any situation I've made a deal of. I spent a year trying to get him to conform to not doing the ST, I left him, I ignored him back, I played lots of different tactics to get him to end it... .not one single one worked.

What I now do is mostly ignore it. I've learned with him to leave him a while and then just engage with friendly chat as that usually gets the best outcome.

This works best for me as the other way I used to do things was way to stressful. I cannot change his moods but I can change my own behaviour and I chose to disengage (well that's the route I'm practicing).

Our relationship is better than it has been (apart from the early stages). Their is a little underlying trust building between us and I honestly have this forum to thank for most of that improvement.

I let him back into my life because life for me was better with him in it.

It is definitely a two sided commitment in the sense of being faithful to each other and knowing mostly what to expect from each other but is it a mutually respectful and loving relationship that comes 50/50 then absolutely not. But that's BPD.

But aside from his BPD behaviour... .He's funny, beautiful, clever, sexy, really kind and caring to me and will run around doing everything for me and I love him :)

Lou when you say your life is better with him in it, would you mind giving some examples?

I know you listed his assets of character.

May I ask if you are an adult child of disordered parents?

Oh I wouldn't know where to start over the course of a couple of years but to cut it down... .when he's not dysregulating he's perfect for me and we are normal bf/gf. When he is dsyregulating its rubbishy but over all he is very much still worth having in my life :) hope that answered your question, there are just to many examples of reasons.

No my parents are not disordered but they were very old fashioned and children were to be seen an not heard so a very invalidating environment. They fought a lot to but I've made my peace with that :)

Lou I'm still not clear why he's perfect for you but I don't need to be clear, you do and you are. :)

Thank you for answering my questions.

When I say perfect for me I probably mean very compatible to me Unicorn. Obviously perfect is not a word to use why 50% of the time is not that great  lol