Print Page - Hello to quiet borderline parents

Hi Wendydarling

I didn't sleep well last night. My mind ticking over and over. Trying very hard not to go back to my "fixer" mode.

I read another BPD website and Keisha's quiet BPD traits and it hit me.

I've known our BPDs (25) had a mental health problem but seeing it written in black and white, in a way I could easily have put his name in the article and you would think it'd been specifically written about him. Whereas BPD anger issues just aren't there, it's all internalised.

The site said that very young children who are highly strung have a tendency towards adolescent BPD. Also drugs may bring it on, BPDs was an early weed smoker. 18 percent steer towards opiates as a pain killer; sadly he was included in sorry statistic.

My H read the article this morning. I told him that I feel we need to change strategy. I said for him to digest and we'd talk later in the week. He said we really need to find a way of living with this situation.

I'm wondering if I should show BPDs the article? Any advice on this gratefully received. I'm concerned with muddying the waters and getting too involved. If BPDs tells them this is what my mum thinks I've got I can imagine the reaction of the clinician.

It seems highly unlikely he's going to get the treatment he needs straight away. We live in a semi-rural area and I just can't see it happening but let's see what they say first.

What private treatment is your Son receiving?

Did you provide any information to them beforehand?

I did some research before Xmas and found accessible services but cost ranged from £75 (CBT) to £200 ph (DBT). I think you may live in the USA?

We didn't do anything about it because our mindset was "the more we do the worse it becomes, stop enabling with money, let him do everything he needs to do himself." However I'm now thinking how just impossible this approach is: he's full of fear.

Thanks for reading

L

Our 16dd meets almost every criteria except the violent rages. Only once have I been fearful of confronting her. Because of her behaviors she is now residing at children's group home while we await placement at a rtc. We could not provide the constant supervision she was needing. It was exhausting having her home full time. She violated court orders on the way home from court!

When things are calm you forget the bad/hard times and start to second guess the here and now. People outside of our home can be the worst critics of what we are doing.

They don't see the rapid swings, the lying, the manipulation, the self harm, the binging and purging, the sexting... .she even has her therapist on her side. Her youth services worker sees through her. There's no point in changing therapist with the anticipation of going to rtc happening soon... .

FYI, dd16 was taking geodon but now refuses (6 was).

Behaviors and crisis episodes are escalating. But she refuses to take.

Hi Lollipop and sparkles mom

I'm London UK based.

Lollipop, I tend to stay up occasionally rather than roll around and fight with the sheets. I stayed up ALL night Sunday and went to work Monday - I'm still in sleep catch up mode. Fixing mode? I don't see it as fixing. I just yearn to understand my DD's condition because no one seems able to point me in her direction.

I'm pleased my quiet BPD thread spoke to you, it hit me too! I do find it shocking my DD has been treated for the individual symptoms for so long, it was only following the suicide attempt that they were able to join up the dots to BPD, which I now realise is very broad. Is my behaviour enabling? I leave that to others. I love and respect my daughter dearly, all I wish is for her to have a happy life. It's taking longer for her to settle in her adult life than her peers. So be it.

Interesting point Lollypop, highly strung children and signs in adolescent BPD. My daughter was a placid child, it makes me wonder the extent my daughter has hidden and internalised. I have just googled the word placid and after the definition of the word on google is www.mugsy.org/pmh.htm (http://www.mugsy.org/pmh.htm)

"Autism is a developmental disorder affecting children from birth or the early months of life. It results in delay in, and deviance from, the normal patterns of development1. These occur in three areas of behaviour:

· Social relationships and interactions

· Language and communication.

· Activities and interests. "

I'm not suggesting anything from the above, just researching so I can get on the same page with my daughter, and there is certainly no harm in that.

I'd say now is not the time to show your son the article, it's his moment to engage with his assessor, build trust and agree to his forward plan. He knows his feelings, who he is - you may just be telling him what he already knows?

UK private care, I researched widely - Harley Street etc. Happy to PM you and share the 6 week short private care health experience, if you would find that useful? My DD realised she needed to feel safe with life long care in place, somewhere she is personally known and can go to - the NHS.

sparkle, I hope your daughter receives treatment very soon. How is she? Does she acknowledge she is not well? The moment my DD acknowledged she was unwell, her slow journey towards recovery started. My DD27 sounds similar to your lovely young DD16, in terms of no rages or violence. I've not seen manipulation, nor sexual behaviour. Arguing is not our way, healthy discussions and debates yes for sure :) My DD de-regulated emotionally, assisted with alcohol for many years. She stopped drinking last November, apart from an occasional social drink, her Dr stopped prescribing anxiety medication - seems to be coping well without so far, she has been on antidepressants for the last year, and tonight spoke of a 3 month black mood cycle that seems to present itself. Geodon? No idea what this is, I'll google. She is still waiting for treatment, but overall hanging in and determined to be well, in a positive way. sparkle, how are you taking care of yourself?

It's a different journey than we ever envisaged. I share with you my optimism for your loved ones and hope.

WDx

Hi Wendydarling

I've spent years thinking about BPDs growing up. He has such a negative viewpoint of his childhood. I admit we do too, it was just so damned hard and as new parents we just weren't prepared. He was spoilt, indulged and we didnt understand how to deal with his anxiety other than managing situations so that he wasn't crying; then it was ok.

Your viewpoint is refreshing regarding "enabling" as I've spent the last 5 years hearing about tough love. My gut has told me we're a family and we're supposed to help one another. I feel I need to set an example to them, we stick by one another no matter what, so they learn for when they may have their own families. We need to be strong for them in the times they're not able to be for themselves. However, because things went wrong I pulled completely away from this idealised (?) view. We both find tough love difficult when we can see how he really struggles to cope with basics. For instance, he has no money or car. He organises casual work but needs a lift there and back. I don't see a problem with taxiing him, work is good and therapeutic.

On the flip side, I do see that he only ever learns through bad experience and challenge. He doesn't improve when comfortable. I've witnessed this.

as time has progressed we've realised that what's needed is a mid-way approach of a loving, respectful and emotionally supportive environment. We are finding a way to live happier despite the problems together. I'm sorry if this post is all over the place. Feeling confused.

I'm praying he comes back from his assessment tomorrow feeling positive. There's a lot riding on it.

L

sparkles mom, thank you, I have no idea why, when and how our loved ones are able to arrive at acknowledging they are suffering and then want to get better or continue to deny. Everyone seems to have a different journey and I've not come across any research finding so far. How are you protecting yourself from your daughters rides of hurt, anger and love? Some call it 'push and pull', roller coaster. I stand back, live my values and my life, that seems to be helpful for my daughter. If I fell into her world, I'd be drowning with her.

Is the shelter worker an experienced DBT professional? I only ask because you said he/ she was 'worried' - not a helpful word in my world.

I'm so sorry, your long wait for treatment is so inhumane. I hope a placement is confirmed soon, hang in there!

Thanks Lollipop

I agree, we all reflect for answers and that can be helpful in a healthy way to a point, to the point of engaging positively with the present and future. I read a post where you shared you had changed your life recently - loving art! And now you are actively supporting your son to change his, which is wonderful! Are you mistaking the term 'tough love' with 'no love'?, that is certainly not the case for you. I understand, we are also a loving family, my parents and siblings stand strong - but I have learnt if we stand too strong, we deny growth and change and that can be debilitating to everyone we love.

I acknowledge my daughter is suffering and may need my (non enabling, non co-dependent, non caketaker ... .) support in the future to help her live an independent and happy life. We are on the road ... .

Sending your son positive vibes for tomorrow's assessment. Will you wait for him to share with you, when he is ready?

WDx

Hi Wendydarling

In the past, our specific problem has been enabling him while he takes no actions or responsibility. Living in our house rent free, treating it as a hotel, not keeping areas clean, working casually but only doing the bare minimum to keep him in weed. Living a life with no future, no ties. To keep a long story short, he left the home May 2015.

He reached crisis Sept 2015 and got diagnosed, attended DBT but got extremely low Dec. All he needed to do was get a job, but he just couldn't do it. He lied, lied and lied, always calling for money and we kept giving it.

He agreed to return home Dec 2015. One boundary: job or benefits. I really believe a job is what is needed for him in the long term. A period of stability while he gets treatment and learns how to manage money and be exposed to real life.

He had his first interview on Monday and didn't get the job. No response from other applications. Is currently not looking for work and not prepared to sign on benefits.

At this present time I'm dancing (not in a good way) in a situation and unsure of ourselves. I'm not sleeping.

This is the situation:

Bpds

- does not want to get a job in the UK (minimum wage)

- wants to work casually (£80-100 pd)

-should declare himself self employed and get paperwork in order but won't want to

- plans on saving as much money as he can

- apply for summer job in USA so he can make friends

- live with us but rent free

- smoke weed

-expect us to drive him to and from casual work

What do we want?

Short term: job with regular income while getting treatment

Long term: live independently

Given that he failed to get a job Aug to Dec in the USA, failed this week we feel it's just delusional to think he's going to secure a summer job 6000 miles away. Also, he's never saved a penny in his life. However, I'm wondering if we should bend and give in from the original boundary. I'm screaming expletives in my head... .it doesn't help I only got a few hours sleep.

Bpds failed to organise himself properly. Assessment is by telephone (for goodness sake) and not until 9th Feb. I have no faith in the system in this county. I can't tell you how disappointed I am. Bpds doesn't want it and that's clear to me.

Advice very much appreciated from anybody

Thanks for reading

L

Hi Wendydarling

Thanks for getting back. Hope work was not too busy on a Friday night.

Thank you, you're right treatment and work is the right order. However treatment isn't forthcoming and BPDs is a lot better when kept busy and (hopefully) is motivated to save money now he has a personal goal.

this is the process

Visit to a&e - got referral (very nearly admitted but BPDs manipulated final interview)

Letter received asking BPDs to make appt ("telephone assessment) - i didn't see letter

Bpds made appt. 29 Jan

I ask BPDs about location and getting there and he tells me it's at the local surgery. I was surprised but accepted this.

They called him 26 Jan to bring appt forward 1 day to 28th

On 28th BPDs goes to surgery only to discover he should have stayed at home to receive the call. He said they hung up on him while he was talking to the receptionist as she was organising a room with a phone.

Bpds got in at 4.30 and, when encouraged by me, called And remade another appt 9 Feb. He complained but don't know his manner.

Frustrated and upset, I impetuously called the mental health team and this is what they said. Bpds must have known it was a telephone assessment, it was on the letter and they'd had two conversations with him regarding the appt time. It's his responsibility and they are unsure if he hung up on them or they got cut off. He implied BPDs had manipulated the situation.

I asked about the process. Telephone assessment with mental health nurse who decides after 1 hour what referral is needed. I told the nurse that when speaking to my BPDs you would not think there is anything wrong so how can this work, particularly when they can't see his facial features, his face drop or his body language. The nurse said they can tell a lot by the voice. I pressed and said this wasn't like somebody who was suffering anxiety and couldn't work. My BPDs was limited functioning and had been for 5 years. The nurse said there was a face to face assessment but that BPDs would have to wait a month. The nurse felt it was best to proceed with telephone assessment and he may be referred to something like low mood telephone assessment or instead then a face to face assessment. He couldn't guarantee wait time at that point. I told the nurse that this was ridiculous and he said "I'm sorry you think so. But we've limited funding and this is the best we can provide"

As soon as he mentioned low mood treatment (which I felt was unprofessional of him) I then reacted to try and explain just how serious this situation is. I was then told BPD is ... .Blah, blah and perfectly controllable when the person takes responsibility for themselves.

I spent the night watching Katie Morton videos and now feel more confused. I'm overloaded and can't see a way through but particularly what we need to do with our boundary which is currently being ignored.

However, things have improved since mid-Dec overall. Bpds likes working, has a bank acct, loves his banking app and seems happier, calmer. He's receptive when I ask him to do something and hopefully his room will be cleaner by the end of the weekend. Life is pleasant.

So why should I enforce the work/benefit boundary? I guess because the casual work may dry up, BPDs may not save his money, slip back into his old pattern of existence, stuck. I'd feel better if I felt confident in his plans but they seem unrealistic, but perhaps he should be given the chance.

Round and round it goes, this mind of mine.

L

Hi Lollypop

I'm so sorry to hear the assessment did not happen. You did the right thing, supporting your son to gain the appointment on 9 Feb. Fortunately it's not too far away. You also have the right to call for information and I'm glad you did. Prioritising faceless phone assessments over face to face seems crazy to me, it's a period of time to carry out the same assessment.

Here's our NHS journey last year, hope this provides some context

May - referred by A&E

July - assessment and diagnosis took place, put on waiting list - 12 months-18 months - the Dr assessing was the head of MH. The Dr is to keep in contact and be available. Dr did not do this.

August - DD in crisis (in hindsight I should have taken her to A&E). I called the Dr - Dr was on leave. Spoke to another Dr, who was very helpful and provided the number of the crisis team who visited our home and then DD had two appointments with the crisis team at the centre.

After the last appointment I called to speak with the Dr - she was still on leave.

Sept - finally spoke with Dr and she invited me in for a carers assessment. It was good to meet her face to face.

Oct - went private - 7 weeks tolerance skills building sessions.

December DD was invited to attend the bridging skills weekly session. DD attends every week and finds it useful and supportive. To be honest I don't know where we would be with out them.

The DBT waiting list is 12-18 months - I wrote to the Dr last week to ask where DD is on this long waiting list - July 16, December 16? July 17? I need to know the time is shortening and that DD is not being forgotten.

I'm pleased life is better for you and your son than it was last year - that's exactly how I feel too. But at times I also have pangs of anxiety - feeling of being in a vacuum with no certainty ahead, or as you describe your mind going round and round' just like a washing machine! When I bring myself back to acceptance I feel calm and positive.

I'm sorry your boundary(work/benefit) is being ignored. Remember you set it for good reason. I agree if your son works casually his paperwork needs to be in order. Any kind of work can come to an end, so at some point he'll be applying for work, that's life. I realise you live rurally - is there anyway he could make his own way to work? eg cycle? DBT treatment is normally 1-2 years - weekly, planning to go abroad before treatment is completed does not acknowledge your second boundary. Is he saying he'll jump on a plane if a date for treatment commencing comes through?

I hope you are having a better day and not feeling so overwhelmed.

It's not been the best week for me - I'll write more on the other thread where I'm logging weekly.

WDx

Hi WD

Thanks for getting back to me. I tried talking to him this morning but he's in a mood. I tried to approach again as I realised I'd not got it right enough to get a responsive discussion. Anyway, we had a discussion and he's now in a bad mood.

He says treatment is not his priority, he will go through the process in the UK while he's here. If something is in place in the UK he won't be stuck here and he will leave as he doesn't want to live in the UK. If he's got to live an unhappy life it might as well be there. He wants to get a job with regular income, but isn't applying at the moment. He wants to get a summer job in the USA but is not looking at the moment.

I've told him that if he decides to only work casually then he will need to save up for a vehicle. He will have to declare himself as self-employed. We cannot taxi him around if he works full time; he says he knows. We can continue to take him to and from work for the time being but he needs to make a contribution to fuel; he says ok.

He said "I'm set in a bad mood now". I empathised and said well, that is what treatment is for, so you can learn ways of getting yourself out of it, to control your emotions and thoughts. You could read your DBT book, look at therapy videos online or practise what you've learnt so far to help yourself. We can't help you with this, this is down to you.

That's about it for now. Thanks Wendy, you've really helped me. I try and get perspective. Things are improving but my god it just takes so long.

Ps.

He could bike it but it would be a 5 mile ride with a very large bag with his tools in. This is after spending all day working in the rain. I may yet make this a boundary. One step at a time.

Hi sparkles mom, that is great news I'm so pleased for you, your daughter and family. 5 hours is a long way away in my world, it's half of the UK island. How long is her stay? I send you all my hope and glad she is safe.

I went to visit my lovely 90 year old mother this weekend, who is still living at home, where the heart is, just. Having done so well from autumn to Xmas and the first two weeks of January my daughter was admitted to A&E Saturday night, I received a call Sunday lunchtime and visited her this evening.

We are all appalled by the waiting list in the UK. One has to do the equivalent of breaking a leg. It's so unfair.

Despite the A&E experience, those of us around her bedside have been able to bring my daughter round from pain, for her to be able to fight for rights tomorrow. Hope.

Thinking of you all at bpdfamily, never give up - always speak out. That's what my daughter will be doing tomorrow.

WDx

My daughter after waiting 2 days in the hospital to be attended to and heard.

"It took a lot of crying and shouting and pacing the ward like a crazy person to get myself admitted to a residential woman's crisis house in XXX. I'll be going either tonight or tomorrow. Been a long hard day of having to justify my illness to person after person when all I need is help and somewhere safe to prevent me from doing this again. So although it's been a horrible day, it's been a successful outcome. Just demanded codeine for my headache and diazepam for my anxiety as I can NOT stop tidying and pacing. They tried to get me to see crisis team but I refused as we've been there before. I literally had to shout, scream and cry to get them to listen so I am glad you were not there to see that. Gimme a ring when you can. Love you x"

Some say you can only get better if you are committed to get well, that's unacceptable when it can not be validated and delivered without one screaming out yet again for help. I'm proud my daughter is able to take on the health system. It's a sorry show UK.

WDx

Hi SparklesMom, I'm sorry you feel frustrated, though it appears positive the providers recognise how much help your daughter needs, step one - of many. Was that your first visit and how was your daughter? I hope you see some progress in the coming weeks and the provider communicates clearly with you. How does that work when you are so far away?

Hang in there SparklesMom, I guess the provider needs to give you confidence in the process and treatment? Sending you hope. and let us know how it goes, we are here for you. I hope my daughter is able access treatment soon.

As for needing help? Yes, I need support and hope like everyone, but not by feeling my family caused BPD, as we did not - we all know it's more complex than that, if I'd realised I had a special child and it was not a normal teenage journey I'd have taken action earlier. I know my work has been suffering over the last year. I just don't feel the motivation to achieve though my colleagues are very supportive, I've been open with them. I do need to pull my socks up.

When my daughter was in hospital last Sunday she wrote a blog titled 'Sick and tired of justifying my mental illness, small steps to getting better'. She explains how she lives a BPD life, what that feels like, her coping mechanisms, how every day is a fight and how she needs treatment NOW. The blog ends with "To finish this incredibly long entry. Just want to thank you for reading if you got this far. I want to feel and function like a normal human. I want to feel I have purpose and I want to find joy and experience the things in life that I was once so interested in. I just wanna feel everything matters and that I matter. That is my only wish." These words give me hope but where is the TREATMENT, oh 18 months away! I'm back to looking at private, the previous experience was not great. I spoke to my daughter last night about writing to our MP, who happens to be a very prominent government politician at the moment.

lbjnltx (thank you) wrote a monthly blog of their RTC journey, it's a years insight of the journey with young daughter. I found it incredibly insightful and helpful. I'm not sure where about it is on the site but if you have not read it and are interested I'm sure it can be found.

My daughter has been in the women's crisis home for 4 days. It's a wonderful place for 12 residents, they even take in up to four children. It is not medically led and you can go out whenever you want. It's a space for people who need a quiet space where they feel safe after a trauma. They offer 1:1 talking sessions, will support you making phone calls, provide massage and activities such as art. You can talk to someone 24 hours a day. She would not be there without adamantly refusing to leave the hospital. Just goes to show you have to SHOUT and if you don't they'll pat you on the back and send you home. The home can offer up to a months stay, though we are not sure how that is assessed, weekly I guess. We are upset her BPD Dr has not even been in touch during the week, though my daughter has been told the Dr will visit at some point. Obviously we are expecting the Dr to offer immediate treatment, no more waiting list... .that is what my daughter will demand. Will it happen? Watch this space. SparklesMom my daughter is 10 years older than yours, in her blog she says "I decided to seek help and support November 2014 (I wish I had the courage to seek help YEARS ago) since then I’ve had relapse after relapse, because there’s been nothing set in place to help me". So, this is where we are today. Forever hopeful and fighting to get well.

Thinking of you and your family.

Hi there WD

I've been away for a couple of days leaving my three men together. Always a challenge for them all. I got home to find BPDs had stayed out all night. I could have predicted it, he uses me as a control mechanism and when I'm not around he uses the opportunity. I've no idea why he still feels this need as he's a grown adult and not a teenager any more.

Anyway, nothing to report other than I had a very good conversation last Wednesday with BPDs. He opened up a bit, I had the opportunity to re-emphasise that unless he takes action regarding therapy and his addiction issues he'll remain in his cycle. He said he's reorganised his telephone mental health assessment. This is good news as I thought he'd given up on this. Regarding weed, he says he feels stable and won't give up his self-medicating, at least for the time being.

Bpds is due to give me money this week, as previously agreed. I'm quite hopeful this will happen but perhaps need to decide how best to deal with any failure on his part.

I read his diary last week. I understand a lot more about him. It's scary to realise just how out of control and reactive he is when facing challenges. The main things I've learnt is how deep his addiction tendencies go (he never learns) AND just how desperate he is to love and be loved in a relationship.

Bpds is determined to go it alone again in the not too distant future. I only hope he decides to get treatment as this should be his priority but I don't think he will, particularly because of the intense fight he'll have to go to to be heard within the NHS. I love the NHS but mental health service is appalling.

As sparkles I too am trying to keep life normal for my younger son and if course ourselves.

WD: it sounds as if your daughter is feeling strong and fighting to get what she needs. I hope she can enter treatment very soon.

L

Hi Lollypop

Gasping for air, my dear! Thanks for asking ... .what an awful 12 days we have had because it took daughters BPD Dr 12 days to return my multi daily calls and my daughters understanding from the crisis home the Dr would visit her. Meanwhile daughter has been sent by the crisis home to various agencies for alcohol, meds, you name it! I'm speechless anyone with BPD and families can be treated like this, no joined up care plan what a trigger! Triggered me too! Aggh ... .

Here is the good news, hurray. Finally BPD Dr called me yesterday when I was on a bus home in the rush hour. When I said I was on a bus the Dr said I'll call you back at a more convenient moment! WHAT, NO WAY! So, the upshot is my daughter is now 4th on the DBT waiting list and can expect to start treatment in April. Secondly the Dr has expedited the GP's referral for a meds reassessment to next Thursday.

Seriously, I'm a resilient person but this latest NHS experience seeped me day by day, brought me to tears, knees etc. I have good lessons to share ... .when my head and legs starts to feel like mine again :) Ironically this week is BBC inthemind series ... .shout

Best thing is daughter has continued her honest blog, it's now 12 days in the life of (which has gone viral in the world MH community) ... .Daughter mentioned it to her BPD Dr today when they spoke. Dr expressed interested, so now has it! May be hard to swallow.

There we go for now. Phew.

I do have some useful information and insights to share, once I have had time to reflect and properly process it. That includes new thoughts about the future, visioning ahead.

How has your week been, so far? It sounds like you are making good progress in building your sons trust, he's responding to (or he's trying to) conversations, listening. Do you think the reason he keeps saying I'm moving out to USA is to prove to you he's not unwell, he is the man life expects of him etc. I recall you explaining how you saw his 'fear'. Part of the unspoken fear is often the stigma attached to mental health. Feels like we have now broken through that and it feels SO wonderfully liberating! Acceptance for us has been key. No more banging our heads towards unrealistic expectations that are unachievable - we are now exploring what is achievable for a happy and joyful life ahead.

Our children will stumble, will learn and change a behaviour, what I'm not sure about yet is if a learned behaviour stays in place and if not is there a general % that does? I recognise DBT skills will be part of their lives.

It's so hard when they shut us out, I respect the reasons why, but those small windows of opportunity to talk that you have found is the beginning of a rainbow. While your son may not thank you today he will when he realises how much you care and how much he can trust you.

sparklesmom - how was your meeting on Tuesday?

Sending my best wishes and support to all, especially if you have had a difficult time this week.

Thanks to all at bpdfamily for the amazing resources and advice and for everyone for being so supportive and making our lives better everyday.

I'm really tired, apols if my message is rumbling.

WDx

Tuesday was our first therapy team meeting (via phone). Kinda went as expected, reports of being mostly pleasant and compliant. Everything was "good" till her dad and I started to speak. Then they got to see more of the "real girl" not the perfect kid. We even called back after the meeting to see if we had done or said something wrong. They assured us no, whew!

My family therapy session with her was held on Wednesday (partly because of the poor meeting the day before) by phone too. I spoke with her therapist the next day for feedback. I admitted to him that our session was better than any we had had in over ten months. It was because he kept the session on track and didn't let her hijack it and flee.

We got to have our first visit with her on Saturday. A one hour visit takes 600 miles round trip... .but it was worth it to see her and hug her. Hopefully she'll accept this journey and come home strong.

I really think we are making some progress. She has stopped the negative talk and actually has conversations with us on the phone. We look forward to her calls. Family therapy is still hard for her but she sticks with it. Usually in tears. I'm driving to see her tomorrow and do family therapy face to face. We've been hitting hard and serious topics the past three weeks. She still wants to "just start fresh" and move on from the abuse. Because she's the compliant kid at the program I hope they don't release her too soon. She's really good at role playing.

My greatest fear is bringing her home with all the legal stuff still going on. I'm afraid it will set her so far back.

Living on an island away from all the ugly stresses and reality makes it hard to address the real world. She is thriving because of the structure and isolation. But at the same time she is so driven and counting the days it takes to get from level to level.

Hi sparkles mom

That's encouraging news. I'm so pleased to hear your daughter is engaged in her treatment and making progress. I recall my daughter's mental health assessor when interviewing me as her carer saying through the treatment they aim to identify and work with her on 'the core nuggets' which I take to be her core issues - that will help her live her life as fully she is able, so it's understandable there will be tears, it's a learning journey for us all.

Like others I have hope for the future and reel with letting go of the past experience. I recognise living in the moment is best. Have you raised your concern about your daughter being discharged too early and what on going treatment and support they can put in place locally when she is discharged? Can the legal situation be put on hold though her good conduct at RTC? Asking these questions may provide you some comfort at this moment in time. Wishing you all the best for your latest trip.

Hey Lollipop

Thanks for the shout out. I've recently been struggling with what I think can be described as post traumatic stress. Tears rolling down my face unexpectedly, on the bus, at work in meetings, sitting in the kitchen and struggling with focus and concentration. I'm sure everyone relates to that.

the good news is daughter has been assigned a male therapist for DBT, which she agreed to. She was upset she is not working with the Dr who has overseen her during her waiting list time but seems to have got over that. Two weeks in, the rules are being set along with goals. Overall she is much better since arriving home from the crisis house, though every day has it's challenges. Group work has yet to commence. She really benefited from the bridging skills sessions she attended. On a train over Easter she took me through one of her worksheets in detail - a good 30 minute conversation. She is using the skills learnt so far, and while everyday is a struggle for her she continues to work hard to remove the toxicity from her life (her words), she's going to beat mental illness and if she has it for the rest of her life at least she will learn to manage it better and maybe even help others also in the same boat. I know there will be relapses - I just hope they are not too severe!

How are you LP? And your boys? Has your husband been able to takes steps forward? As you say be mindful in the moment, I hope you have a good day today.

Off to work... .

WDx

Hi LP

Thanks for asking LP, I am very fortunate to have a supportive network of family and friends - they have been marvellous, reaching out to both me and my daughter. March was the first anniversary of my father passing and I now think the events of the last year stalled and confused my grieving - for Dad and also for daughter. I have arranged bereavement counselling, that commences the week after next. This week we received a ‘save the date’ email from my sister and her partner who get married next year, no presents, instead donations to their just giving page for BPD, proceeds going to the charity MIND. Daughter was bowled over and said she felt deeply loved and supported. So good things are happening. Oh St Johnson Wort - I bought a bottle over a month ago put it in the cupboard and completely forgot about it! :) How's it going with I don't have to fix? I'm on my second read through walking on egg shells, I read a bit every night in bed. Next in line is Radical Acceptance, Tara Brach.

WDx

Hi WD

I'm very very pleased to hear about the counselling. I also lost my dad, sadly on my BPDs's birthday 17 months ago. Grief is a strange one to deal with, pops up out of nowhere and when least expected. You've certainly had a lot to cope with and no wonder you're feeling like you do.

The book is amazing. I've decided to read it again straight afterwards so the bits I really need stick - I think I'll do notes! I've told H I think he'd benefit from reading it but won't push it.

My good news is:

1- BPDs bought himself a belt from the charity shop so the string has gone!

2- he went out for a meal with his girlfriend last night and he really enjoyed it

Nothing quite like a wedding to look forward to and it's wonderful about the MIND donations. A dress is forthcoming! Our lives are like a jigsaw puzzle, slotting in all the important pieces we need first. It's so important to have joy so we are better able to cope.

Thanks for the tips on my next reads. I've made a note.

Have a great Sunday.

Hi Wendy and Lollipop,

Life is strange isn't it. It was the anniversary of my mum's death this month too and I wasn't able to deal with it really as it seemed to prompt the downward spiral of my BPDD. She therefore because our main concern. She had a complicated relationship with my mum, a bit of love/hate (which come to think of it is the same as all of my BPDD's relationships actually!). She collapsed at the time as I had kept telling her she must visit my mum as the end wasn't far away but she scathingly responded by saying that I was just being alarmist and OTT as usual. I tried to comfort her and soothe her by saying that my mum wouldn't want her to feel guilty about not going to see her which provoked her into an absolute rage saying that she didn't feel guilty at all. It wasn't long after that that she went into crisis and a series of serious self-harming events resulting in her being sectioned a number of times.

I'm so pleased you are getting support Wendy and that your daughter is getting the treatment she needs. My BPDD is struggling to get help from the professional team as they say that they don't provide DBT in our area and that she is too complex for the groups they do offer. I'm trying not to wade in although I have written a long and pleading letter to her case manager out of pure frustration.

I laughed out loud at the 'string' Lollipop. On such steps lie true progress. Such positive news re the girlfriend too. Fingers crossed.

I'm meditating frantically (if that is possible) at the moment. Ohm Ohm Ohm.

Thank you for this thread. I am related very much to what you are all talking about. I am in the US and I see there are many DBT clinics. My 19 yr old daughter is currently living away from home. Rather than go to college (she went to one year of Jr. College), she wanted to move out and work. I was very proud of her interest in experiencing life on her own. She had one friend already living there and they live in the same building. That friend helped her get a job there. It seemed like she was doing really well. (we had no idea about BPD at that time).

The job was stressful for her. She had suicidal thoughts and some panic attacks, so she quit after 3-4 months. Now she is afraid to work, she had made some friends and now she feels like she has taken advantage of them and they are no longer her friends (I think they are, but I'm not there). She is doing self-harm. She has done some drinking with friends, but it doesn't sound like she has done a lot. She has smoke a bit of pot, but again, doesn't sound like much.

When she was in high school and depressed (school was rough), the pediatrician put her on Paxil which was horrible for her, and coming off of it was even worse. So she is not interested in finding medications to help her now.

When we look at her childhood, there have been some traumas that she never thought of as trauma. See what you think. She was bullied by girlfriends around the same time that I was going through breast cancer treatments (fear of abandonment?), a few years before that, her dad had open heart surgery, then a few years after the cancer, we got divorced. Meanwhile there were multiple special pet deaths and an uncle and a grandfather died around that same time... .She took all of it in stride and played with friends and seemed to have a normal, fun childhood.

In middle school, after I finished treatments, she wanted to be homeschooled, so we tried that. That didn't work out very well as neither of us could keep her on track and get any work done. We tried a lot of out-of-the-box teaching techniques, but she just couldn't get motivated. She did go back to school the next year to a new school (an arts school which worked well for her). High school brought more challenges and we tried an alternative school after she stopped going because she was depressed and couldn't get out of bed.

She completed high school after returning to the original high school and we got the counselor to help her complete the missing units. Then she went to one year of junior college where she took art classes and dance classes and that made her happy, but didn't think she could complete college when she would be required to take English and Math classes. So she decided to move away and try to work and live on her own. She was excited about a dance school and had dreams of going there. She has talked about going abroad and working or dancing or something.

Now, she seems to be doing more self-harm and feels alone and I feel it is time for her to move home so that we can look into therapy options. I am looking for a support group I can attend that may give me ideas on how to behave around her so that I am not enabling her or upsetting her.

I think she has been disassociating for much of her life. We looked at photos and I see it. She doesn't see it. She looks like a different person at times in those photos. She only started to talk about it when she was in therapy after the divorce.

Now she is learning about BPD and has come across AVPD? Avoidance disorder? When she read that description, it sounded like her. She is afraid to talk with a therapist for fear that the therapist won't believe her or will disagree with her self-diagnosis. Or make her feel badly for trying to figure it out for herself.

She has started a blog about her experiences with BPD. I am very proud of her for putting herself out there and expressing what she is experiencing.

Thanks for connecting us all together. The quiet ones seem so different than most of the experiences being talked about here.

Hi Shining Star

I'm so very sorry not to have responded till now. My goodness you have been through so much it's no wonder you are reflecting how your daughter coped with past events and trauma. I have not had health issues though my daughter is sharing her feelings of abandonment as a child and an adult.

It’s wonderful your daughter is looking for answers, building her knowledge and understanding, my daughter was also able to identify through her research. Our daughters have a similar approach … blogging, etc. it’s been a good foundation of my daughter’s motivation to recover. I understand your daughter “is afraid to talk with a therapist for fear that the therapist won't believe her or will disagree with her self-diagnosis. Or make her feel badly for trying to figure it out for herself”. I hope your daughter overcomes her fears to talk with a therapist, my daughter found comfort in gaining a diagnosis, her multiple symptoms acknowledged and emotional dysregulation is real and it hurts!

How did your visit go? I’m sure much has happened since you last posted.

The decorators have been here for the last 2 weeks, one more week to go. It's been very disruptive, having boxed up our belongings and moved our possessions from room to room. It’s like moving home within home – I can’t find anything anymore. My daughter’s bedroom and dressing room come office has been a dirty tip for over a decade, like many a BPD bedroom described by others on this site. She’s has let go of some possessions, that’s a big thing as she has a strong emotional attachment to everything. She wants a calm ordered space – a personal goal, hurray, hurray! Will she be able to further halve the volume of her possessions? I do hope so, it would make her life so much simpler to manage and a nice relaxing space to be. A BPD friend of hers is a compulsive clothes buyer, most of which ends up in my house, I dread seeing daughter walking up the path with a huge bulging bag, many of the clothes are unworn... .

Anyhow I’m pleased and proud my daughter has set herself this goal especially so soon after spending February in crisis.

WDx

Hi WendyDarling,

Thank you for your reply. I understand how crazy life can be. And redecorating can be a challenge. It sounds like it will be better when it's all done.

I just heard from my daughter this afternoon and she has decided to move home. My visit there was good, I was able to help her get a few things in order and be there with her while she took care of some things. That seems to be her biggest challenge. She can't do anything alone. I'm not sure what made her decide to come home. Every time I brought it up she was very resistant. I shared your daughters story and others here about the hospital and crisis. I asked if we could make a different choice. She assured me that she would figure things out. And I think she realized she couldn't figure it out alone. She told me she talked to her sister a few times(older) who suggested that she move home. So maybe that's what it was.

I think she may be ready to get some treatment. I told her there was a center near her that does DBT. It is a short bus ride. But she said she wouldn't be able to go alone. And she was stressed every time we talked about getting her some insurance. She is in a different state and something wasn't working when she applied. Anyway, I can get her insured here and we can get some treatment here as well.

Did it take a while to find a therapist that worked well with your daughter? I spoke with one therapist who does DBT privately but doesn't take my insurance. And I have emailed another who has groups usually by not right now so she can work with us privately but also doesn't take our insurance. I'll keep looking. I know how frustrating it can be trying to find someone who she can trust. She was in therapy in high school.

Thank you for taking the time to connect further with me. It is so helpful to know I am not alone. I know we have a lot to figure out but now that she is coming home, we can start the process. Talk to you again soon. Good luck with the remodel and the organizing. Minimalism is a popular thing these days. Maybe your daughter will take an interest in it. I understand the attachment to possessions. My older daughter has a hard time with letting things go. I recently moved into my mom's house and we left a room full of stuff at our house that we are renting out. And then we have a closet full of boxes of books here. I try not to judge but just encourage. And I model with my own purging and living with less. My mom is doing it as well now that my dad has passed. We just can't take any of it with us, right?

Sorry for rambling. Talk again soon.

Hi ShiningStar

Good to hear from you.

I'm glad to hear your daughter was able to talk through things with you and her sister and come to a decision, it must have been hard for her. What kind of therapy did your daughter have at high school? I ask because my daughter (unbeknown to me) had 5 months of CBT early last year before her first hospitalisation - looking back she says it was like opening up a can of BPD - it was traumatic. It says CBT can be invalidating for BPD, I found this very helpful. www.behavioraltech.org/resources/whatisdbt.cfm and shared it with my daughter. Perhaps if your daughter is able to accept DBT is the right treatment for her it may give her some comfort and confidence to trust a therapist. If I am correct from what you say, the first step is a DBT assessment, can that be carried out ahead of finding place for treatment? To gain a diagnosis and have a space to reflect may feel less overwhelming.

My daughter was on a DBT waiting list from last July, in the autumn they invited her to the group skills session (this was an informal drop in for those on the waiting list), once a week for 2 hours - she loved it, she was not alone, it was a place to meet and talk and learn some skills. A month ago she was finally in treatment which commenced with the appointment of a therapist and they have been working through the pre-contract stage of DBT (I believe it's 12 weeks), ahead of the group skills beginning, where she will meet her new peers. She seems happy with her therapist, even called him one day for support in these early days, though I know she had the opportunity to change therapists if she needed to (based at a mental health centre - part of the local hospital). It's the skills building sessions where I see my daughter has hugely benefited, so far. To be with a peer group able to give and gain support, learn together has been validating she is not alone.

Back to boxes, cleaning and clearing ... .so right, can't take with! To think I have to empty the bath of boxes to have a bath That's it, they are all going

I hope the move home goes well. Do let us know how you get on with the search for treatment.

You are not alone. Remember to take care of you too.

WDx

WendyDarling,

You are an angel. I hope you had a soothing bath. So funny about the boxes. Yeah, let them all go. Hahaha. It was pretty freeing for me to let go of most of my possessions to move into my childhood home with my mom. Now to have my girls moving in with us, it may be a bit cozy. But I am looking forward to having them here.

The therapy in high school might have been CBT. She saw an intern who did various things. She did some neurofeedback. It seemed to help in some ways. Interesting what you said about CBT being invalidating for BPD. We have been talking about that therapist and some of the things she did that were inappropriate. Like talking badly about other clients. And telling my daughter that she doesn't like the stepmom. She told my daughter something that her stepmom said in a session about my daughter which seems to kind of haunt her still. She said my daughter "can't do anything without her mommy" which has been part of her resistance to let me help her which has been hard to watch. This is part of why this is so huge for her to come home.

I am comforted by this information. I will share it with my daughter. I think it will help her. And hearing about your daughters experience with the group skills session is very helpful. And about the sequence of events. It sound a lot like the way a center in Portland described how they do things. I haven't found a place here that takes our insurance, but I'm not working too hard at it since she's not exactly on board yet. I have found a few therapists who do DBT privately.

How do we get the assessment done? She did a self assessment online. And then shared the description with me and asked if it sounded like her. She tells me she is afraid to get better because she is beginning to understand what is going on and doesn't know how she will feel without her symptoms that she understands. Her older sister is helping with that because she deals with some mental health issues and felt the same way.

I am working on getting her insurance in place. That has been a bit of an issue for some time.

Today I booked my flight up to help her move. Got a car rented and a hotel. We will take a few days to pack up and then we drive about 12 hours. She has already started to pack which is huge. I had at one point envisioned having to do all of the packing of her things and then getting them into the car. She is much better off than when I went up there a few weeks ago. We have talked packing strategies and she told me what she has already packed. So I think it is feeling more real. And having a date is good too. She feels that these next few weeks will give her time to say goodbye to the friends she has made there. She told me she is seeing this move as temporary and agreed with her. She can focus on where she wants to be and set a time frame for herself.

She has been doing some exercise and today she told me about how she put some more products in her online shop. She has her artwork up for sale in a website and they put her art onto products like phone cases and shirts, pillows and journals. I am so impressed with what she can do. She hasn't felt like creating, but she added products so she did something to move her forward. She has been doing small things each day to improve her outlook on herself and her life. It's encouraging.

Thanks for the link.

I am taking care of me. I do TaiChi and Yoga. And meditation and journaling. And I am reconnecting with old friends here and finding new friends. Things are changing for the better for all of us. I'm feeling such a positive upswing.

Thanks for helping me feel supported. I am so glad to have met you.

Hi ShiningStar, thank you , I'm glad to meet you too. I'm now squeaky clean after the soak, tomorrow I shall shower at work. Decorators leave on Friday, yeah. My daughter wisely decided to stay with friends this week to avoid emotional upset during the turmoil, a wise mind decision, I'm learning from her! Next time I'll leave them to it ... .and book myself in at the inn... .

I wish you and your daughter a safe journey home, you have been very busy! She sounds to be coping well as you say and you have given her the space and support to make it her own return and as she says it is temporary. Is there a local dance group for your daughter to join, you said she was very keen. It's encouraging your daughter is motivated to do bits of work that she enjoys. My daughter has kept that going too at her own pace, no stress.

You ask where to gain a medical assessment. I'm in the UK so the system is likely to be different. Perhaps our US friends could help here. If you have a local mental health centre or hospital ring them to see how to obtain an assessment. Perhaps a qualified DBT therapist can offer an assessment? Do let us know how you get on.

I have yet to research neurofeedback, many here have shared the great benefits, it's not been mentioned to my daughter as an option, yet, perhaps they do not offer it here. I'll search. My daughter was offered DBT, then schema therapy and mentalization therapy post DBT if they feel she will benefit at that point.

I'm sorry your daughter was dealt with "can't do anything without her mommy" my daughter was dealt it too - my daughter had a general anaesthetic last autumn for an exploratory procedure that turned out to be a burst ovarian cyst. When she came round she had a panic attack for about 20 minutes, no one was there in the recovery room or so she thought. She eventually shouted out for me and a nurse in the background sarcastically said oh you are a mummy's girl... . My daughter made a formal complaint for being abandoned in resuscitation and received an apology. Her GP willingly offered to put forward her case, he was upset by what he heard and wanted to make sure the hospital received feedback and improved standards and understanding for all patients. Through DBT my daughter is learning to live in the moment and leave past experiences that upset (triggers) her in the past. It's very early days in learning and many here will be able to explain better than I.

Glad to hear you are taking care of you, yoga and meditation. Bed time here, that means Horlicks and a book. :)

WDx

Hey WendyDarling,

Sorry it has been so long. I was busy for one week learning how to do live webinars and then put my first webinar on. I leave in a few days to go get my daughter to bring her home.

She is doing so much better. She decided to do a 30 day challenge of exercise. She has been doing it for 2 weeks. And has had 5 good days in a row. She is looking forward to her move and new surroundings as she regroups.

I have met a therapist who has worked with BPD patients and is familiar with DBT. She is willing to meet with both of us and said I could go to DBT to go through it myself which is something they recommend. Have you learned about DBT yourself?

I also found a DBT group here where I can go for the multifamily class. I was wondering how your daughter does in the group setting with others who do not have the quiet form of BPD. I feel like my daughter may be very uncomfortable with the ones who are more outward. I guess we will know more when we get started. She still doesn't feel ready to get therapy.

She expressed concern with feeling better. Feeling like she doesn't think she has BPD now. Like she made it all up. And then fears that the good feelings will all go away and the bad days will come back. She did say she read about learning to feel those negative feelings. To stay with them and feel them. I thought that was big as she mostly disassociates. Especially when the feelings are so intense.

Have you learned much about healing trauma? Has your daughter identified any trauma in her life? The therapist was pointing me toward a book called Healing Trauma. It is about Somatic Experience. Peter Levine.

So glad to hear you will have your house back soon. Maybe you have already moved back in.

Hi Shining Star – I hope all is well with you. The decorating is completed, still trying to sort out the home, its slow business when working and tomorrow I have a guest arriving so I’m madly trying to get the place ship shape. I hope the trip home went well and life is settling. I’m glad to hear you have local DBT opportunities, my daughter loves the group session work, peer support and great people to meet who understand her. I’m sure the first session is daunting for everyone. It’s a supportive and positive environment and all is to gain. We have not spoken about past trauma though I did read an interesting thread here recently, thanks for the book suggestion. I have yet to attend DBT, something I intend to do – searching online to see if that may fit with busy schedule. I have read the skills book and it’s time to engage. Multifamily classes were not offered to me (UK), it’s purely patient focused, that maybe due to her age 27 or the fact it’s not on offer here in the uk. The one to one DBT therapy is based around setting goals, my daughter has now set hers and signed the contract.

I hope things are moving in the right direction. That your daughter recognises she is struggling and is looking for solutions is inspiring and yes it is confusing and a big step to place faith in a treatment when a diagnosis has not been provided her. Good times and struggling times come in cycles so I understand what your daughter is saying to you. My daughter is also staying with and feeling emotions, with the help of the skills sessions she is making great progress.

Thinking of you.

WDx

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Children, Parents, or Relatives with BPD => Son, Daughter or Son/Daughter In-law with BPD => Topic started by: wendydarling on January 25, 2016, 03:18:16 PM