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We talked on the phone for about 40 minutes... .He didn't want me to get off the phone with him. He wanted to know how I was doing and what I was doing. I didn't say too much about that.  He wanted to reminisce over old times. He told me that he and the mistress are having a baby girl in the middle of May. They are moving to a cheaper apartment soon. They will have to have day care because she is going to have to go back to work... .although, he may quit his job. They don't know how they are going to get the baby to daycare at 6 am when she has to work at 4am... .he may have to be the one to do it? He claims he doesn't drink nearly as much as he used to... .only occasionally. He claimed he has allot of strange thoughts in his head. I don't know what that means... .He brought up the time 9 years ago when he grabbed some guys balls in a bar! He said "who does that?"  A friend of mine is convinced he is bi-sexual and won't admit it. He asked me once again to be part of the baby's life... .he said I could be the "Aunt"! I said I am your wife! Have you forgotten that?... .

He was laughing and having a good time about it telling me how they don't fight like we used to "violently"... then I said something that questioned him and he called me his mistresses name! Then he said, sorry, he took it as argumentative... .I'm thinking, I thought you didn't argue?  Then he said, Well, we argue about money. I said, we didn't argue, you would get angry if I called you out on a lie or caught you cheating or driving drunk or something big. You would be violent, not me. Then he reminded me that we would have had a 7 year old if we hadn't lost the child... .said that maybe things would have been different. I said, no, they wouldn't have.  He said maybe he was having to grow up... .He said his parents talked to the two of them and told them they shouldn't rush into marriage ... .that they had already gotten themselves in deep with the baby.

He said her Mother hates him. He said his parents will come see the baby in June, but he doesn't know if her parents will come visit. He said they have no plans to move out of state anymore... .which I am sure she is really upset about as that was her big goal. To move home. Toward the end of the conversation he had me crying because he talked about my throwing him out of the house. He said I didn't give him a choice, I said yes I did in July when we were together, but he chose to go off with her, in which around that time is when she got pregnant. He said it is what it is... .he doesn't have a choice but to go along with how things are now. He is really nervous about having a baby, but is looking forward to it as best he can. He kept defending himself and her by making fun of the people I am around and calling them snooty as well.

He kept saying he would rather be around country people than be with snooty people with money (he used to be one). He said her mother thinks he's strange because he dresses preppy. This is where I am trying to get off the phone with him now because he is saying so many ridiculous things and he didn't want the conversation to end. I told him I was getting a new sofa and he asked about the old one... I told him I gave it away. He said he wished I had given it to him. I said, that I would not have done that. It had too many memories, I needed to get rid of it. He has been sick as well and not feeling good.I told him I hope he took care of himself.  He talked about how much fun and about the things we had in the past. He brought up our "snooty" neighbors as well. I think they didn't like him because he was drunk every night and waving guns around and bringing women and weirdos over in the middle of the night! He said he has to keep his nose clean until the pending felony was over too... .I thought maybe that's why he is not acting out.

He said he hasn't been cutting himself lately either. He seems to want to blame everything on our relationship and how we were together! He said we were volatile together... .I just got upset and said don't blame me... .no one would have put up with all that he put me through and all I ever did was try and help him. Then he said I was being abusive... .I told him he was abusive to me in the relationship and he was being mean to me now, telling me that it would have been different if we had a child! He said her friends that are cops are looking out for her... .they must know about the domestic violence charges. I finally got fed up with him and told him that I did not need to talk to him any more, that he was obviously just trying to twist the knife in my heart some more... That I have studied his personality  all year and I know what he is... . 

I asked him if he has told her about his mental illness... .because he told me he is being nothing but honest now... .I said really? Why don't you tell her that you want your wife to be the Aunt of your child? See what she says... .then talk to your two CPA's and your lawyer about all of it! (more lies he told me) I was so mad... .maybe I am a big B***h, but I had heard enough about how I was the cause of all of this and how much calmer and less stressed he is. I don't believe it for a minute! He said work hates him, her parents hate him, her friends are watching out of her and he is broke... he said they sit around doing nothing. They argue about money... .that doesn't sound stress free to me! I told him I am sure he was looking to use me in some way and that's what he wants me to be the "aunt"... .(who says that)? He said he hopes I can find someone and be happy, that I deserve it and peace in my life. Yea, he wants me to get married so he doesn't have to pay alimony anymore. Remember this guy is BPD and Narcissistic... .a pathological liar. I found out what I wanted to know by having the conversation... .I am no longer crying over him! I just wanted to jot this down so I remember the conversation and to show you how strange of a conversation it can be... .I am sure you all have had similar situations.

Sometimes I do feel like I sit there and take all of his stuff and then I just have to let it out when I can no longer keep my feelings to myself. I guess this is why it's better we are apart. Besides my being way better off with out someone who is so awful to deal with. His mistress is immature and probably deals with more of it due to her being pregnant, but she is a tough one and very argumentative. She may not put up with his crap like I did. She may tell him she will take the baby and leave if he doesn't straighten up- who knows. I told him that telling me he misses me and we will always love each other is crap. he doesn't treat me like anyone he ever cared about and he agreed. He thought that we could have a nice conversation with out anyone blaming ... .but he was blaming me! Unreal!

I told him I wished not to speak with him anymore as he was just too hurtful and I didn't deserve it after all I did for him. That he knows that I am the only one that knows him for who he really is and that the least he could do is stop playing games with me. I was the one who tried to help him become a better person and have a better life... .that he can only blame himself and his mistress for how their lives are turning out because of their own actions. She is missing her past as well. I bet she will regret it more and more... .

Bear in mind that I'm NOT AT ALL defending any such behavior, but just like my exwife, he doesn't know he's doing it. He wants to keep you around so that when you feel like having sex he'll be right there, the comforting ex waiting with open arms.

I'm convinced that no one could be that big of a scumbag intentionally, and that they operate subconsciously. Doesn't excuse it, but until they think outisde of themselves they'll only replay the same pattern over and over again.

Just like my ex, he knows in his mind that your feelings dont mean as much as his. That's how she could accuse me of being a monster and then take our daughter against my will with no indication as to when or how I could see her again. The rules that apply to you don't apply to him, and that goes all the way up.

I'm really sorry and I feel your pain.  :)

What was the purpose of the phone conversation? Was he calling to settle some kind of business matter or was he trying to call you as a "friend"?

I have told my stbx that it is over on numerous occasions. He tries to act like everything is normal yet has two dates planned for this week with two different ladies. I try not to engage him any conversations. When I came to the boards in 2014, somebody told me to learn how to be really boring. It has taken me a long time to learn how to be boring and not engage. I still slip up because it is my nature to be nice.

If he says he doesn't drink as much, nod and say something like, "That is good." And then proceed to make an excuse to get off the phone or leave the conversation. The more you respond to what he says or try to defend yourself or call him on his crap, the more you are feeding him.

If he won't stop, it is perfectly okay to say something like, "I don't want to have this discussion. I am hanging up the phone now." And then do it. Don't give him room to argue or plead or anything else. If he calls back, don't answer it.

How do you feel about all of this? I know that you say you are confused. Are you getting anything out of having these types of conversations with him? Why do you sit and take this stuff from him? (I am not picking on you. These are some really hard questions that I have had to ask myself and think about. This stuff is painful and confusing.)

This is some very difficult stuff to do. It took me a long time to break my stbx of constantly emailing me when I am at work. The other day, he was trying with all of his might to get me to engage. I wouldn't do it. I stayed non-commital. At one point I told him, "Stop messing with me." He apologized and said he would do something or another. I was furious. My response was very condescending and rude but it got him to leave me alone. I just said, "Good boy" after he said he was going to take care of whatever it was himself.

I read we are supposed to have boundaries with them... .to quote one article I read;

"Borderlines need boundaries. Setting a boundary can sometimes snap them out of their delusional thinking. Calling their bluff also is helpful. Both strategies require that you build his or her self-esteem, learn to be assertive, and derive outside emotional support. Giving in to them and giving them control does not make them feel more safe, but the opposite"

He called to finish up our discussion about taxes... .I think to "talk" as well... .remember he said he "missed me and we will always love each other". He said he was feeling emotional. Then he tells me all of this crap that I don't need to hear. I tried to get off the phone and he said, please don't hang up yet... .I should have, yet, like I said, I almost think I need to hear all of his crazy thoughts to  bring my self back into reality, instead of fantasizing about the good times... .I think his angle is to act like he is such a great guy now, so that down the road I would take him back if he needed me... saddaddy said this and I can see it. One minute he is doing so well and then he will tell me they are not getting along at all... .I have read narcissists do this all the time. Calling him out on his behavior sets the tone that he can not fool me anymore. I feel a bit more powerful ... .It still angers me and and hurts a bit, because I am alone and he is not. I want him to know he is not fooling me. The only thing is I feel like a mean person myself and I should not- he has been so awful to me. That's the hard part... .

Blue - I have been following your story as I have been familiarizing myself with the forum.

I'm sorry you have been through a really rough time.  Divorce is difficult for anyone without the added chaos of throwing BPD into the mix. 

You say that "he has been so awful to me", so why continue in engaging conversation with this man?  He is clearly toxic and causes you pain.  You are now hurting yourself by staying involved in his life.  When are you going to focus on yourself?  You deserve to be happy :)

The reality of this situation is he is with another woman and they will soon be a family.  An innocent child will be part of their life soon, and that is their business.

Is knowing every detail about the other woman really helpful to you?  How is that helping you move forward?  I hope you soon find the strength to put this behind you, focus on your own life, and live again.

There is a big, wonderful world out there waiting for you :)

Best wishes.       

I understand 100%. She left me broken and alone and all.of a sudden she has this life that she loves to brag about. I have to cut her off to keep her from hurting me anymore yet she looks at me all hurt when I won't give her a hug or let her touch me. I need to defend myself because she uses my trust against me, yet she tries to make me believe I'm the monster.

At one point she almost had me convinced that I was the one with the problem. As much as it hurts after all the years, disconnecting emotionally is my only option because she won't stop taking.

I understand what you are saying... .I guess my codepedancy is is part of the problem. He goes around telling people I cheated on him! I want him as unhappy as I am I suppose ... .I'm trying my best to live on, but I'm alone and see all my girlfriends alone... .There doesn't seem to be many decent available men over 50. I'm angry he's moved on while we are still married! Reality or not, it's wrong and they shouldn't be flaunting it all over the place! I just don't know how to move on when there is nothing to move on to! I'm alone in my apartment with my pets, I work and I talk with friends and go out once or twice a week. I've got new friends and that's how it is. I miss having someone in my life to care for and to care about me. It's lonely and I'm supposed to be the better person. Why am I alone and unable to meet anyone? Those two deserve to be wrecking each others lives since they are both cheaters, so I'll give them that! No one else deserves them! As to why... , that's why- I'm a bit bored and alone.

I took care of this man for 9 years... , I was happy to do it thinking he loved me too. To find out it was all fake is devastating... .I keep reading it takes a couple years to get through it. I'm trying to vent my frustrations here and hope it may inspire others one way or another... .Be like me, don't be like me, but we are all in pain here.

Mine knows the difference between right and wrong.  Were that not true, she would have a very difficult time projecting her false-self image to the rest of the world.  She knows she's lying when she tells a lie.  She knows she is trying to manipulate when she tries to do so.  There is very little that is subconscious about it, but a whole lot that is highly impulsive and totally lacking in empathy.


Mine did that.  Note the past tense.  




I'm not.

Mine knew exactly what she was doing on a conscious level when she prevented me from taking our children to see my dying mother by siphoning off the money we had agreed that I would use for the trip in to her own bank account that I had no knowledge of or access to.  She knew what she was doing when she opened that account, too.  She has known exactly what she was doing every step of the way; most every hurtful thing she has said or done might have been impulsive, but it wasn't subconscious.

With mine, "a**hole" has the clinical-sounding name of Borderline Personality Disorder but that doesn't stop her from being an 'a**hole" or from knowing she's being one when she is.  A lot of her behavior is impulsive, but much of it is schemed and planned well in advance.  

If it was all subconscious, she wouldn't save up all her "s*****" behavior for me and our children and she would have a difficult time NOT exposing the rest of the world to it when propping up her false self to it.

 

I think the fact that he keeps calling you and reminiscing pretty much says he is not happy.  He will probably never be happy BH, doesn't matter where he is or who he is with.  The question you need to ask yourself now is what are you going to do to bring happiness back into your life?  Why do you need another man to do this?  

Even if you have another man in your life you can still feel lonely ... .still be unhappy.  Try to fulfil these for yourself, by yourself first, and let the rest come as it may.  I don't believe anyone can truly be happy all the time, we just strive to strike a balance between unhappy and happy.

I completely understand the frustration, the injustice of it all.  It hurts like hell and the pain just doesn't seem to go away.  It doesn't help that he is still tethered to you and the sooner you can cut the tether the better off you will be.  This is why you are stuck where you are.