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People with similiar degrees pathologies are attracted to eachother?  That is what our psychiatrist told my wife and I after getting our results back from an all day of psych testing.  it is like a hand fitting into a glove.  My pathology (co dependence) fit will with my wife (paranoid personality disorder).  That is how he explained it. 

He told us 5 years ago that we both needed long term therapy (that was humbling).  However he said "I want to warn you that by gettting help and improving yourself, you may destroy the balance of your relationship.  That is if one person starts to get more healthy and the other one doesn't, then that will disrupt you dynamics.  At the time we were having issues but they took about 12 years of marriage to get there to an acute state of dysfunction where we knew we had to do something.   

So we both went on to our separate therapists.  As I started to become more assertive, learning about codependcy and dealing better with conflict and conflict avoidance.  Events started to escalate when before I would capitualate to make them better.  Now I started holding my ground a little better each and every year.  But still having serious set backs in my own improvement as the next 5 years went. 

Now 5 years later, I understand what the psych said.  I don't have that unhealthy desire to do whatever it took to try to control my wifes anger and her wishes even at the expense of losing freindships, family of origen relationships, and taking pervasive verbal abuse in front of our children, and some physical abuse. 

Have others had a similiar experience once you started therapy?  I know it was very humbling to hear about my dysfuctions at the time, but working on them have giving me the freedom to 'be myself' and not be enslaved by irrational insecurities.  How about you?

You are fortunate to have had this psychiatrist so that you knew what going into this effort may result in.  I can attest that indeed, completing a long term therapy treatment changed me in much the way you described.  I naively believed that this was the key to marital happiness and ending the constant back and forth - after all, I was to blame for so much of what was happening, if I just fix myself I will have fixed us.  For real, I believed that.  And I did change and yes the dynamics changed and I would no longer permit the put downs and berating. 

Tread carefully and knowingly.

Thank you for this post. I like what you said about thinking if you fixed yourself your relationship would get better.

I've had long term therapy myself.

Yes that is true Joeramabeme.  I have been out of the house for about 40 days now and have filed for divorce... .  but I am starting to feel just a little bit better each day without my wife telling how bad I did something, how incompetent I was, about the bad decision I made, etc.  The worst question that my wife uses with me and the kids... .

"Why did you spill the Milk?  Why did you break the toy?  Why did you fall down?  Why did you make that dumb decision?  Why did you not make enough money this year, Why did you do that with the kids, why did you etc... .  It seemed like the only correct answer to a question like that is "That I am 'bad' in some way".  Rather than taking the attitude that not everything that happens in life has to be someones fault.  Sometimes things just happen.  And when they are someone's fault it doesn't make them a bad person... .it just means that they are human. 

It has taken me a while to work through those feelings of inadequacy which I am still working on. 

Unicorn2014,

What has been the biggest change for you in the therapy and now how it translate for your relationship?

I stopped therapy last month when it became apparent to me I could no longer afford it.

I am very conflicted about my current relationship.

I am trying very hard to reduce the amount of conflict in my relationship by disengaging with my partner when things get heated. It doesn't feel good. I am conflicted about my relationship in part because of the high degree of conflict.

All4BVM

I am constantly amazed at the degree of similarity we all experience in r/s' with pwBPD traits, this is another classic example.  My ex constantly asked my "why" all the time, like an insatiable child would perpetually ask a parent.  I asked her over and over again why do you constantly ask me "why"?  I can't remember the responses but do remember never feeling that they amounted to anything logical.  I got so resentful about it that after awhile I started asking her "why" all the time to throw it back at her - let's see how you like it.  Well, needless to say, that did not have a productive outcome.

I am slowly re-reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline.  Page 103 addresses the why of the "Why".  Here is an excerpt.  This is in reference to the pwBPD traits trying to keep you enmeshed in a sense of oneness with them so that there is no discomfort in perceiving differences between you and them. 

"One of the most common ways the BP tries to convince you to get back into the "right" way of doing things is to question your reasoning.   . . . The tactic of getting you to explain yourself as a means of getting information that the BP can use to prove to you that your choice, your feeling, your want, and even you as a person are wrong.  ... .You do not have to give people reasons or explanations for what you do, unless you want to.  You don't have to buy into it."

For me claiming my right to be was a novel concept. I was constantly explaining myself - which I think stemmed from a feeling of not being good enough.  I remember wanting to appease what seemed like her dissatisfaction with my general choices.  I really thought there was a right and wrong answer to the question.  And I would even go as far as to say, at some level I appreciated her challenging me as it made me think about why I do what I do. 

Occasionally I would respond to the "why" question by saying "because I chose to".  After doing this consistently for awhile the question would be minimized but always seemed to come back.  Such a great degree of effort from me to try and manage what seemed so mysterious at the time.

I see that you are in the process of divorce.  Despite her moving out 7 months ago and the papers being signed 3 months ago; I am still discovering, learning and unlearning so much!  It takes time. 

Do you see yourself going for reconciliation or for her to come to an awareness about what is happening?

Joeramabeme,

Thank you for sharing your experience and the quote from the book.  Yes I am amazed at the similarities that people have shared on this site.  It is like we are all reading from the same script... .or our spouses our reading from the same script.  Yes I have struggled with the why question and it took me a while to get to the crux of the feelings that bubbled up inside me when they were used.  It would create a lot of self criticism of me and if I got to the point where I verbalized it to my wife as a reason... .I would just feel awful afterwards for thinking that about my self and would create a spiral of negative emotions that would put me in a funk. 

I am going to get that book you mentioned as I have not read that one yet. 


Not exactly sure what is meant by going for reconciliation... .but over the last 45 days I have stayed my ground and not capitulated as things have escalated and the alienation of the children has been pretty over the top and damaging to the children.  She has been in an extreme rage up until Sunday.  It is like she flipped a switch and is seeming pleasant.  As I was invited into the home to be with the kids and eat dinner with them the last 2 nights (before then she would not even let me into the house). 

I can only think that she was finally served the paperwork for the divorce- prelim custody hearing a week from tomorrow which I have asked for full custody and a custody evaluation- and perhaps has shocked her as I was always --stay married at all costs regardless how I am treated--.  This would be the first time I have really taken a stand and enforced my boundaries on how I am going to be treated.    My cynical side says that she knows that she has acted horribly, damaged she has done to the kids,  and now must go in front of a judge and is trying to show judge and me that she is easy to work with. 




My hope and prayer is that something good will come of this like you said as you are still discovering and learning / unlearning so much.  It took many years to get to this point... .so I am sure it will take a lot of time to start to peel back all the layers.  What has been the biggest 'aha' moment of your discovering so far?

|iiii I believe that completely, and have heard it from many sources. I'll add a couple wrinkles to it as well.

1. People start relationships at very similar degrees of emotional health/pathology/whatever.

One partner may get therapy and become more healthy. One partner may experience trauma and become less healthy. Perhaps one partner was in a temporarily unhealthy situation when the two of you got together. (Example: If you start dating raw from the trauma right out of an abusive r/s, you aren't as nearly healthy you will be in a few months.)

2. In a good relationship, that destabilization process will ping-pong back and forth many times, with partners taking turns growing, and triggering growth in the other one... .in other words, the balance WILL be destroyed, but it may destroy the relationship, or it allow the relationship to find a healthier balance point instead.

3. I have grown/learned a LOT myself; I got most of it from mindfulness meditation, good spiritual friendships with people who challenge me, and these forums. I also learned some things in couples therapy. Individual T would most certainly have helped me, had I gotten any. Perhaps I will--I've got a nagging issue around procrastination that I'm not sure how well I'm doing at cracking on my own.


Note the two things I highlighted in there--If it really is the first time you enforced boundaries, the typical/normal response is an extinction burst--turning the volume on the bad behavior which used to get you to capitulate all the way up to 11. She might have just finished that and realized that her old method isn't working on you.

Or it could be what you fear--trying to look good for the judge.

And I forgot to say... .CONGRATUATIONS!

I think I remember your postings from a while back while you were still together with your wife, and were largely unable to do exactly this.

Doesn't it feel wonderful when you realize you can do it!

Reading Stop Walking on Eggshells and learning that there was an entire pathology that fit the pattern of what I had been experiencing with my ex.  That was the first and by the far the biggest aha moment.  Since then, I have had a number of awareness' and a slow and gradual clearing of the F.O.G.  It really does take time and effort.