Print Page - Money management

Hi

My BPDs shared something of his feelings about money today and I'm wondering if his traits are similar to others.

He hates to spend money.

He sees that going out for a meal might be a pastime instead of spending your time taking drugs but he says that when he's decided to join friends for a meal he instantly regrets the decision when paying. He says it's such a waste of money.

He doesn't want to spend money on clothes. He says he doesn't care what he looks like. He'd rather buy all his clothes from a charity shop.

He knows that he needs a new phone but won't spend the money on himself. He's in desperate need of socks and underpants but he won't buy any.

His close friend says he thinks my BPDs has a skewed thought process with regard to money. I asked him if he thought so too. I asked him was it because he preferred to spend his money on drugs.

Bpds replied "no, I hate spending the money on drugs too. The strange thing is that for somebody that hates to spend money, it's very strange because I never have any".

I can only think of three items he has bought himself in the last 10 years. Xbox at 15, a bag 18 and a hedge trimmer at 23. He has no possessions now,

Does this ring any bells with others?

Thanks

L

My daughter is the same as yours lbj. She is the exact opposite of your son Lollipop! It is difficult to know whether or not both extremes come from lack of self-esteem or not isn't it? My BPDD33 spends all of her money on tattoos, cosmetic surgery and cosmetics and many other impulses purchases while not paying any of her bills! I only heard yesterday that my d had booked herself one of these really expensive acrylic nail jobbies and would have to take a taxi there and back to have it done. This is when she has lost her job and has absolutely no form of income at the moment! AGHHHH! I try not to react and bite my lip. My lips are bleeding as I type this! Actually I don't know how to handle this either.

Can we swap children for a time Lollipop?

LBJ : thanks. I think you may be right. Years ago I thought it was the drugs. Later I thought it was poor executive controls. Now I see it as a combination of the BPD with very low self esteem. I'm really starting to wonder if this is the root of lots of his behaviours. When we talked about it I picked up on a something he said "so I could go out and buy a new pair of jeans but that's not going to make me happy is it?" It's like he thinks there'll be a switch, an event or s miracle that brings instant happiness.

Rockieplace: with pleasure! It'd be good to reduce the amount of testosterone in the house! I could talk about nails and girly products instead of football boots and silky saws.

I must say how awful it must feel for them to not be in control of themselves with something so basic. Never be able to do normal things like save up for a holiday for instance. This trait must give them a bad feeling inside.

L

Hi there Lollipop, It's a deal!

I've now discovered, from my non-BPD daughter, that my BPDD33 has received thousands of pounds in holiday/severance pay but has asked her not to tell us! My non-BPDD has made me promise not to divulge that she has told me as she says that my BPDD will never tell her anything in future if I do. I'm trying to interpret this information in the most benign way possible but frankly I'm failing to see this as anything other than deceit and calculated lying. I have been so sympathetic (and validating) about my BPDD's tears and fears about not having any money now that she has lost her job despite, as saying above, discovering that she is making expensive appointments for nails etc. Don't know how to deal with this new information.

Hi rockieplace

Mmmmm, if I'm honest I'm wondering why the secrecy. Then again, as an adult she's entitled to keep her own business. It's hard isn't it to let them have the dignity of making their own decisions and feeling the consequences of them, good and bad. It's really not normal to know everything about our adult children. I understand though that the BPD skews this as they Are vulnerable. I try and believe my BPDs is stronger, wiser and capable of more than I believe - perhaps naively.

As a wider view, she'll have a great time in the shorter term with her money. I've seen similar with my BPDs with smaller amounts, but still considerable. Are you in a frame of mind to have some sense of humour in this?

Her nails are going to be gorgeous *)

L

Lollypop and Rockieplace

You made me smile! I work so hard, my nails really need serious attention from me. You'd never get me in a nail bar despite me having perfect feet cos Mum was a chiropodist -- and dug out many a verruca without pain killers. Some things just don't add up.

To spend or not to spend?

My DD has spent. But hopefully won't be shortly as she is going freelance and she will need to plan and save for tax, insurance, pension. Can she do it? Let's see ... .personally I think it will be a very helpful lesson.

Lollypop, I recently spoke to a colleague about my daughter and she opened up and told me at LENGTH about her brother who is 67 yrs. She was really keen I meet him and she invited me to tea at her mothers (93) with brother. We had a great time - very, warm, welcoming, gentile and happy people.

He has not a penny and won't spend a penny unless absolutely necessary and I mean absolutely. He has been on benefits since 30 - despite being well educated and a first flying career job. One trip to M&S each year for the basics. He lives in a one bed council flat (his parents made him apply for) that no one has seen the inside of (she reckons it's a disorganised tip of mess) eats cold food as oven given to him has broken - won't allow it to be replaced, loves watching classical music, tennis and rugby at his Mums (he has no TV) and speaks to his voices. For the last 30 years he has walked 4 miles, twice a day to visit / be with his parents, afternoon and then in the evening. He is an endearing man child. He has no friends outside the family. They tried to get him to the Drs for a diagnosis in his 30s - did not happen as far as they are aware.

There is much more to his story, eg how he had to apply every week until the age of 65 for jobs and that made him anxious. With a diagnosis he might have been able to get disability allowance.

Anyhow, the money issue thread rang his bell for me, so I thought I'd share. My colleague is keen to get him out and about - we have invited him to join us at a classical concert ... .and hope he feels able to accept, he is a really great guy, good company despite his well worn clothes.

WDX

Hi there,

I hope too that you can get your friend to go out more, Wendy. It is so sad when we see people living such restricted lives but people make their own choices too and sometimes they find it hard to get out of their rut. I had an uncle somewhat like this chap but he wasn't so pleasant to be around as his parsimony made him very suspicious of other people's motives. Although he lived like a pauper, he died at the age of 72 leaving a fortune! So sad.

So, Lollipop, when can we make the exchange? Ha ha. We do try to see the funny side and almost manage it sometimes. We did say actually that she would have lovely nails for the court cases she would have to attend as she has a number of County Court Judgments against her for non-payment of Council tax, no car tax/insurance etc etc. She has also told my other daughter that she is expecting us to bail her out. This angered my non-BPDD - they have a fractious relationship - which is why she told us. My BPDD seems to feel entitled to all of our money and even uses our GD and any money we spend on her in her arguments against us. My husband and I have talked and talked about what we are going to do about this and just can't seem to come to a sensible course of action. We know that our BPDD will kick off big-time if we say we will not bail her out again. The abuse and emotional blackmail is terribly hard to take without relenting but I think that, this time, we have got to be strong for her sake. In the past, we have been guilty of giving in and afterwards have found that the money we have given her to renew her phone contract, pay electricity bills etc has only freed up money for her to spend on on-line drugs, tattoos etc etc. She always promises to pay us back (she has been on full pay until last week even though she has been in hospital for most of the time and therefore not having any expenses) but rages against us and denies ever having said she would if we even hint that we want her to repay us. I'm now in a state of dread again as I'm sure that this whole is going to turn very unpleasant very shortly. Any advice would be gratefully received. x

Hi rockieplace

I'm perhaps not the best person to give advice as we're so early in on the process of Bpds to start taking responsibility. We've always been there to get him out of fixes, pay off loans, car insurance etc. We paid for him to get back home in Dec - my friends were shocked that I bailed him out again! However, things are different and better. The last money I gave him was Xmas eve and I told him there wouldn't be any more, firmly told him "this is the last time- ever". It was a short conversation. He moped about for 8 days and made our life hell over the holidays. By third week January, I guess fed up with cadging tobacco off a friend, he found himself work.

This boundary has been kept by us - huzzah!

Second boundary - Bpds has to save £100 minimum each month. It didn't arrive on time but he saw I meant business and I got the money. Second months savings is due on the 21st of this month. He knows I'm expecting it as I reminded him and he seemed cool with it. I considered matching the savings but felt uncomfortable giving him any money knowing he prioritises and smokes weed every day and it didn't go with boundary 1. I'm trying to keep communication very simple.

Third boundary: yet to be introduced, RENT. I think I'll ask for £50 pm to be paid each month on 7th. To be honest, I'd prefer £100 but I'm not sure this is realistic. I haven't told Bpds yet but he won't be pleased as work is irregular at the moment.

Our plan is to get him into a routine where the outlay is equal to private rent in a house (say £400), then we will ask him to move out if he hasn't by then.

This year I will get him to register as self employed if he hasn't found himself a job. He won't earn enough to pay tax but this will be part of his learning what and how to be a grown up.

This is the one thing we can help and support him in. Other problems need to be dealt with by a professional and it won't happen until he seeks treatment.

I'm still hopeful he will do this soon.

I hope this helps you. I know exactly how you feel, we've been there too but this time we refuse to give him any more money. We saw that we were hindering his growth, we are trying to be realistic as he is only managing to work casually. Things will be different if he gets a regular income and surprisingly he says he may just land a job locally. He is changing, as we are too.

Stay strong.

L

Thank you Lollipop. Despite not giving me a date to exchange kids! Ha ha. You have managed to set out boundaries when things were calm and navigated carefully to make progress and keep them in place with your son. Well done and good luck. I'm trying to find the right time to inform my BPDD that we will no longer finance her and that we will do all we can to support her except give her more money! We will probably be in the news as murder victims but so be it. It is for her sake and ours that we must stick to this boundary. I can't bear to see us throw more good money after bad as the saying goes. Not only that - we won't be around for ever and she desperately needs to learn that she has to live within her means and take responsibility. Tomorrow she has asked me to come with her to the vet to get her two dogs vaccinated. She said that she couldn't manage to get there with both of them and I offered to help her by driving her there. I'm sure she will expect me to pay but I'm not going to do that. I have already paid over £1,000 vet and other charges for her first dog over the past year. I'm defending myself on here to you as, having read all the advice, I won't be doing this to her ... .you see I'm learning! Wish me luck. |iiii

Hi rockieplace

We too have spent thousands and its reached the point where we have to think of ourselves and younger son. My husband wants to retire early in 4 years so we are working towards that. Bpds is 25 and it's high time. He admitted to me today that he's wanted to remain in a child like financial state! I couldn't believe it! I'm just so glad we've been strong on this. We are becoming the parents he needs. We reached our end and ironically we are seeing positive changes in him. We finally realised that he will keep on taking just as long as we carry on giving and there was no point moaning about it - we had to change!

Good luck tomorrow. I dont envy you the trip to the vets but hope it goes to plan. It's hard lessons they need to learn, but learn they will if we teach them.

Thanks for your kind words and support

L

Ps. Exchange is off! Vet bills are just too scary!

Ha ha! I knew my cunning plan was too good to be true!

I've since slept on my decision not to pay for the vet and have reconsidered. My BPDD is struggling to cope right now after a series of disappointments and difficult events (losing her job etc). She also always accuses us of favouring my other D and GD and paying stuff out for them. She also calls these two dogs 'her boys' and says that they are her children. Now there are two reasons we've decided that we are going to pay the vet's bill : 1) the timing of setting a financial boundary is simply not right now 2) we can separate expenses for 'her boys' by paying directly for vet/grooming parlour and tell her that this is the equivalent of paying for stuff for the GD without, at a future date and a better time, infringing our boundary which we are determined to set of not paying her living expenses etc which she should be responsible for. (plus a third that I am a total coward

Another option is that you agree to the exchange and I will pay you for the vet's bills.

Ha ha, nice try rockieplace

I think it's important to get things in place that are right for us and right for them. It feels like a game of chess and ultimate manipulation on our part. As I said before, I'm not sure if I'm the best person to give advice On this as I've no success rate! Me and you are at similar points with the money side though.

Take a look at the thread

Ideas on helping my son out

(Sorry I don't know how to paste the link)

There's good advice and how others have introduced financial boundaries.

It seems to me timing is critical and so I can relate to your decision. I still work myself up and do that "dance" before those difficult conversations. But I am getting better and stronger with the help of this forum. I hope you are too.

L

Update on the vet! We struggled with the two dogs and when it came to paying I was having to wait outside with one of them while my daughter just went to the desk and paid without me being able to do anything about it. I let her but when she later called me to say thank you for helping her get them there (very unusual for her in itself!) I told her that I would give her the money as I had intended to help her in this way anyway. I then got a text thanking me for offering to pay. I texted that I felt that our money was well spent on keeping the dogs healthy and didn't hear any more! I was giving a hint of course. Who knows if she took it?

I could have just let her pay but, as my h and I had decided that we would cover expenses for 'her boys' it would have undermined the future boundary. Fingers crossed.

Having heard on the grapevine that my BPDD is going with her friend today to get some piercings!... .I now feel under pressure to let her know about our financial boundary so that she can't say "I wouldn't have had that done or bought that if I had known you were going to do this to me" Can anyone come up with any nice validating ways of telling her (I would prefer to text - I'm a coward as you know) that she needs to consider any expenditure carefully in the light of our financial boundary. Any suggestions would be most welcome!

Hmmm... .maybe something like:

We understand that you are accustomed to making your own financial decisions based on how much money you have coming in. It is only fair to let you know in advance that Dad and I have decided together /that we will only be giving you _________/ that Dad and I will no longer give you__________/that Dad and I will no longer pay for ____________/ so that you can plan accordingly. We believe in your ability to take care of your own financial needs and make wise decisions about how you manage your money.

The statement above is more about a boundary and handing her the responsibility followed up by a positive reinforcement statement than a validating statement. The validating statement may come after she gets angry that you are not going to be giving her money/paying for things.

lbj

Hi

So Bpds has just announced to me that he won't be able to give me his savings money on Monday. He caught me on the hop when I was driving. I asked him why. Here's his reasons

1. I know I've worked two days this week but I got paid on Monday for one of them and I've already spent the money.

2. I will try to give you as much as I can on Monday but I owe money and it needs to be paid back.

I said "well, that wasn't our agreement. I suggested to you at the time that you could pay me weekly but you haven't. The money is due Monday and you're going to have to sort this out."

Bpds looked stressed and agitated and says "I'm stressed out now and I just cant get the money to you. There's nothing I can do about this now. You know I can't handle my money. You know my head doesn't work that way. I cant organise myself."

I repeated my statement and suggested he could easily get the money together by working for his dad (casual work has just arrived in his business). I hate doing this by the way, we have a history of him working for my husband in the past and know from experience it's not good. But I was thinking on my feet and AGAIN bailed him out by providing an opportunity. On this I'm NOT happy.

Bpds "I've had a sh*t week and haven't seen anybody and now it's weekend, you expect me to work all weekend when everybody is around?"

"I said, it's a Saturday morning and a Sunday morning so if you haven't got the money then you're going to have to work for it aren't you. The money is due as we agreed. This is about teaching you how to start managing your money. I really appreciate that it's difficult working casually and managing your money but it'll be a lot easier when you have a regular income".

He said "ok then".

But he is NOT happy!

I'm not looking forward to hearing him moan tomorrow morning IF he actually does the required work. I now need to prepare myself for the money not arriving.

Any suggestions on consequences? Any feedback on my conversation is most welcome.

L

Firstly, lbj, thank you! That sounds pretty spot on to me. I'm going to give it a go. I'll probably use your sentences verbatim! Fingers crossed.

Lollipop, It is so hard to think on your feet when you are driving but I think you did really well sticking to your guns. You stayed really calm too. The fact that he didn't kick off there and then must mean that he knows your stipulations are valid. He will be disappointed with himself too.

From what I have read though of your situation, until your son gets some therapies/treatment/rehab he will probably continue to struggle to fulfill his side of the bargain. He even admits that he hasn't got the coping skills which he needs doesn't he? It's so difficult when he is resisting getting help.

I'm the last person to be able to advise you of consequences though as, as you modestly stated previously, I too have zero success rate! Maybe it's time though to say that, because of his inability to stick to the agreement, he now needs to either move out and manage on his own or absolutely get some professional help.

Shall we form a co-operative and deliver these boundaries/consequences etc in a group - perhaps using 'facetime'? There is safety in numbers and maybe it would lend us more clout? I nominate lbj as our leader... .I'll be hiding in the back row.

Hi rockieplace

Left without any leverage other than throw him out but then you make the "seek treatment" suggestion! Clever, and I'd never have thought of it! See how irrational we get in the throws of confrontation. In my next life I really need to be something like a silverback gorilla, something with big cajones.

I will ponder and see what tomorrow brings. You never know he may just work

Thanks for your support. I laughed at you in the back row, as they say in school, you need to place yourself in the centre of learning!

L

Hi Lollipop

I hope you are well.

You have made great progress with your son. It's a positive he was able to communicate with you. I guess this was not a huge surprise, albeit disappointing.

The consequence is he keeps to the agreement and gives you weekly AS SOON AS paid especially if he is borrowing beyond his means Reinforce the agreement.

You've mentioned charging rent ... .consequence of non payment in real life is eviction. People pay rent and if money is left in the budget they save. Food for thought?

Yes you were caught on the hoof, offering two mornings work. You can say that is a one off to help him achieve the agreement this month as you recognised his disappointment. You could be clear it won't be offered again.

Todays money at our house!

Texted daughter from work this pm:

Me: Hi Sweetie. How's your day going? Around this evening? xx

DD: I'm pretty sure I threw my bank card in the bin when I was manic yesterday. Back tracking my steps to what bin I dumped it in as its no where in the house. Apart from that I'm ok I had a good morning, I'm around this evening. x

Me: Whoops, see you later. x

DD:No card ordered a new one bummer, oh well life

DD: Was on my way to get passport photo today - damnit

Me: Well done for resolving. Leaving work now. x

At home: The word manic is new to me. Transpires She emptied her bag of receipts and rubbish in a public bin, whoosh bank card too. She was hugely annoyed with herself all afternoon and it stopped her being productive. Everything came back to her card. Upside is she was grateful for making it to the weekly alcohol group with the £6 cash she had. Goal is to identify 10 things she is grateful over the next week. She reeled off 4 :).

Me: (10 year broken record ... .) - I use a wallet, it helps me know where my card is at all times, best thing is I don't have to think or feel confused.

DD: Yes, I'll do that. I also need to keep important things in one place, I hide them and can never find them - drives me crazy.

I give her credit, she is trying to work it all through.

I'm working through the DBT skills workbook - it's very helpful. Have you?

WDx

Hi wendydarlin

Thanks for suggesting a way out of my not sorting out consequence straight away and offering a bail out. I've argued with my husband this evening but we've sorted it out. After reading your post I pointed out to him that we needed to agree the consequences beforehand rather than relying on reacting to non-action on BPDs part. This will help us keep consistent in the future,

At the time of BPDs returning home and for about 8 weeks BPDs talked a lot about his intention to return to the USA. We always knew this was a bad idea, but the weak part of us that just wanted rid of him and his problems took us to a decision of encouraging him to save up to leave, rather than us choosing to work to a proper long term resolution to dealing with his problems.

Bpds is now settled and has started dating, no longer talks of going away and hopes to gain s part time job he can do in the evenings and at weekends which would work with his casual work. You are of course right to point out rent should be a priority but 2 months ago we didn't see if that way. We've found a way to live with one another, although my husband finds it highly stressful, he really is finding this whole thing very difficult. I find it difficult to deal with my husbands negativity and lack of support at times, he'll go along with it so far but the moment a challenge comes up he reacts immediately and says "what are we doing, it's not working, what's the point, it's completely useless, he has us over a barrel, we can't throw him out". I find this unbelievably difficult to deal with as well as BPDs and younger sons current problems, I also am striving to have my own life and start my degree in sept. It's selfish, but I need space to think creatively. I'm stretched beyond my ability, I'm not making excuses but just explaining how I feel. Right or wrong.

I'll see what happens tomorrow. Reinforce payment and insist weekly payment following Monday's monthly payment. I don't want to relent and allow him to get away with Monday due payment.

Bpds has got a DBT skills workbook that I've looked at (from USA). I find it really confusing. Is this what you're working in? I'd be very grateful for some advice, perhaps we can message?

L

Hi

I spoke with BPDs this morning. I thought he was awake but he wasn't so that was a bad start.

Me: I don't think the monthly savings thing is working out.

Bpds: he nodded

Me: I really don't want to muddy things up by forcing you to work. I don't think that's the way to go. I know the work is there but emotionally I think you'd find it difficult.

Bpds: He was non-committal and obviously waiting to hear the next potential news.

Me: what I think would be best is to pay £25 each week towards your living costs. Not savings. This seems very fair to me. So that'd be £25 this Monday. If you wanted to save as well I'd be happy to hold it for you. Do you agree?

Bpds: yes

I've got a contract out... .

Bpds: Omg, you're just stressing me out. I'm thinking about that now. I mean, I'll do it (meaning payment) I don't need this (meaning contract).

I walked out. I will speak to him later after he's got up and had a cigarette.

L

Hi Lollypop

I'm recalling the conversation you had where he shared his (new and realistic) goal to live independently and locally. Paying rent on time and a contract is a step towards that goal, your conversation around rent validates his aspiration. That you support his goal.

If this is his goal has he worked out how to achieve it, how much income is required? Has he looked at local rents and areas? It might spur him on to gain full time permanent to make it happen. All very practical stuff for us though not necessarily for our BPDs. In no way suggesting you fix. I share this in the backdrop of DD being asked to set goals.

The skills book is Linehen. In response to a thread re the frustration of DBT waiting lists, Lbj asked what are you waiting for? So I bought this book. I'm very slowly making my way through it. I can see why it is confusing being classroom led, it's making me really think. I have also ordered Doing DBT, which while for clinicians, it might deepen my understanding.

www.behavioraltech.org/products/details.cfm?pc=GP14

Off to your other thread

WDx

Hi WD

In mid Dec BPDs goal was to return to the USA asap, get a summer job, not seek treatment, make friends and by the end of the summer something else would fall into place. This was unrealistic as BPDs has limited planning and money skills. We played along with his intention, nurturing relationships as a family, encouraged him to save once he'd proved he could work casually. Also, with a gentle nudge to seek treatment.

Bpds now has no goals, or none that he's sharing. They are always unrealistic goals that he never achieved. He lives day to day. He doesn't want to live independently, he knows he couldn't share and also that he can't live alone. Remember, this is in his head - not ours.

Our goal is to get him to live independently by gradually ramping up his money skills and to provide support once in a place. There's a very long way to go. We aim for early 2017. We hope in the meantime, he seeks treatment, gets regular employment and settles into a stable period.

He's agreed to our request for a weekly contribution towards living costs, £25 pw. I haven't yet got him to sign the agreement and I'm not sure I will, I'm pondering it. This is a start albeit a tiny one.

I'm hoping the influence of a very young but sensible girlfriend helps him.

L

Sorry I've been off-line for a couple of days while we took our little grand-daughter to Euro-Disney! Yes - I'm a confirmed masochist! Just as well really.

My BPDD texted me shortly before leaving saying she had found a beauty course for only £1,500 for 3 days after which she could earn all sorts of money, about her wanting to find her passion etc etc in life. I didn't really want to deliver my 'boundary' at this point as when we are going away usually triggers some extreme reaction but I felt I was in a corner. I texted back saying that I understood that she felt this would be a good idea. I then told her that it was only fair to tell her that your Dad and I ... .and put exactly what lbj had suggested above regarding our financial boundaries and then waited with dread fully expecting to hear that her next call would be to accident and emergency! However, I received a fairly reasonable text telling me about the sum of money she had received from her ex employer in holiday pay and that she had only told my other daughter about it and that it was just a idea! I was so relieved. She then told me she felt her life was on hold. I told her that I could understand how tough that would feel etc. and that was that. I've no idea if she has booked the course. She usually does stuff like this totally impulsively and doesn't even mention it. Whatever the outcome this has to be considered a result! Thank you LBJ from the bottom of my heart.

Lollipop, you don't have to apologize. I'm sure I am not alone in being so pleased that you are still making progress with your son. It is so hard isn't it and we are working in the dark with our hands tied behind our back. Addictions, whether linked to BPD or not, whether alcohol, drugs or betting make it so difficult without the person involved having an absolute commitment to getting help. We are all rooting for you.

Lollypop and Wendydarling,

Several posts ago, you were discussing a DBT skills workbook that you were working on for yourselves. Can I ask if you have the book that is just the handouts (DBT Skills Training Workbook and Handouts) or if you have the DBT Skills Training Manual? The books I'm referring to are both from Linehan.

I went through a 6 month course of DBT with my therapist, and the participants used the handouts book for the group sessions. The teacher used the DBT Skills Training Manual to teach from, so I picked that book up too. It has much more information and explains what the handouts are trying to teach. And now that I've finished the course, it's helpful for refreshing the skills. I'm trying to learn them for myself, in hopes that I can model them for my daughter since she refuses therapy.

Slipping

Hi rockieplace

Wow! I bet you did a little dance! Well done you and you bravely sent it knowing it wasn't going to be a good time. A perfect example of unfounded fears. Our adult children don't want to be the way they are, they want to be independent and I try and remember this.

It occurs to me that perhaps your daughters idea of beauty therapy isn't a bad idea as she seems very interested in it. Could she consider a college course at a local college rather than a private short course? See, I'm fixing again!

You're so kind to say you're rooting for me. I'm genuinely touched.

It's time for us both to get our big girly boots on, be brave and teach them both some money skills!

L

Ps. Hope you enjoyed all that sparkle and magic, lovely diversion with your grandchild.

Oh slipping thank you! You're a star.

I've got the DBT skills training handouts and worksheets second edition. My heart sunk when I flicked through it. The structure of it is confusing and it was a bit overwhelming. After WD mentioned it again I thought I'd try again but haven't had the heart.

I will try and seek out the training manual. Youre a fabulously committed mother and very inspirational. I wonder if there's something I could do online. I don't have access to DBT training where i live.

How old is your daughter? Do you know why she's not seeking treatment?

L

Can't believe I am writing this and am nervous to even do so as I'm getting quite superstitious in my old age and don't wish to jinx anything! Got a text from BPDD (we are away at the moment) saying that she'd decided that the beauty course was a bad idea anyhow! Hoozah! She had decided instead to put the severance money she had received to a) pay off the balance on her car loan (she had phoned the loan company and got a settlement figure and discovered that she had already paid much more than she had thought) so that she could become mobile again and regain her independence and b) put the rest towards her next month's rent. She said that she felt that this was by far the better use for her money!

I hadn't said anything against the beauty course although I thought it was a very bad idea (sorry Lollipop - I think it sounds quite nice and girly to you in your house of men, but it wouldn't have gained her a valid qualification and there is no way she could earn any money from it as the market is totally glutted with people wanting to do that who are much better qualified etc etc)

I validated her wish to regain her independence by getting the car back on the road (the tax etc had lapsed while she was hospitalized) and was able to sincerely agree that it was hard for her to have no car after having had one for so long! She's been using her money swanning around in taxis too so it could prove more economical in the long run but I haven't mentioned this additional benefit either.

The great thing is that I didn't even suggest this option! I haven't given any advice at all. Fingers and everything else crossed right now! If this is the power of validation then it is nothing short of miraculous although I know things could change and we could be back to square one tomorrow. :) :)

Hi

Rockieplace: absolutely brilliant! Her confidence must have grown at coming to these decisions by herself. Also your own confidence in her! Such good decisions and actions taken to resolve her immediate problems. The power of your validation and that text is unbelievable. I'm so chuffed for you.

Lbj: thank you so much for this link. I went to it straight away and immediately found DBT Skills Interpersonal Effectivenss and found how to approach my own problem. I will use this site to practise.

I had a hat to eat! No money left on my desk and I wasn't happy. My H calmly said "he's most probably just forgot as he got in late". So I wrote a note using the DEAR part of

DEARMAN and I apologised for writing but I couldn't find a convenient time to talk to him:

"This is the first week of paying towards your living costs and I think you simply forgot to leave the money on my desk when you got in last night. I'm worried that you haven't got the money or don't agree. I would like it if you pay me today. I think if you remember to pay on time it'll stop any negativity and be another thing that helps us get along better :)"

The result is partially good in that I did get the money (great), plus he says I'll get it on time next week (acknowledgement - great) and Bpds opened up as to what the problem was (improved communication by him - another great). All good? No, not quite.

It was inconvenient in that he only had £20 in his wallet and he said he needed this for weed. However, despite verbally saying what his priority was, he still placed it on my desk. I saw at that very moment he acknowledged I was his priority. He said that he had given me all he had but that he still owed me and he would now need to walk about 4 miles to get some cash.

I was caught on the hop again. I was pleased he'd explained to me what the problem was but I didn't like to hear it was drug related. I got confused as to what my priority was. I told him I wanted paying in full and that I would drive him to the ATM so I could get payment. I see now that this was validating the invalid. It is enabling. I should have just told him to walk.

I guess it's going to take me a long time to work all this out. I'm feeling overwhelmed. There's just so much to learn. I'm feeling very uncomfortable about the weed and yes, we are enabling, but there is progress, well, at least I think there is. I need to think about this and reflect some but wants to share what's happened.

Thanks for reading.

L

Hi Lollypop,

Thank you for the kind words. I've been reading some of your posts, and it's obvious that you are committed to your son too. You're so right that there's so much to learn. I don't know how long you've dealt with this, but it's been over 20 years for us. I'm absolutely beyond grateful to finally find other people who "get it" and information that is making a difference.

If you do happen to buy the manual, I thought I'd add that you will want to skip Part 1. That part is directed at a practicing therapist, with info on how to run a skills group. If you move on to Part 2, that's where they begin to explain how the worksheets are used. You may not even it though, if you use the dbtselfhelp site. That would be helpful b/c the books are expensive!

My daughter is 29, and although she has multiple psychiatric diagnoses, no one has mentioned BPD to her as far as I know. After she began self-harming and made a suicide attempt last year, I spoke to her psychiatrist and explained the BPD symptoms that she's suffered with most of her life. He encouraged her to see a DBT therapist, but still didn't mention BPD to her. She has a history of failed therapy, including one who was using DBT. Unfortunately, he wasn't running a full DBT program (with individual and group sessions), but used the workbook as part of his sessions with her. He never even listened to her life story, just told her to read a book on depression, handed her the skills workbook and told her to start filling it out. You can probably imagine how well that went over with her. She quit after a few sessions. This was such a bad experience that she won't even entertain the thought of going to any DBT therapist. And of course, it doesn't help that I think it would benefit her. She's highly allergic to any suggestions from me! At this point, I've stopped all attempts to get her to see someone, and I'm waiting on a better time to approach the subject (if that ever happens).

I read your note above about using the DEARMAN skills. Good for you! I know what you mean about being caught unprepared and then second-guessing your response. I think you're doing so well, though, b/c you spend time afterward thinking it through and that makes you better prepared for the next time.

Hi slipping

Thanks so much for the encouragement. My BPDs25 has always been tricky, real problems started at 11 and I missed them through a string of close family deaths, 15 was "mission control, we have a problem" year.

I'm very sorry to hear about your daughters treatment. It emphasises the importance of really trying to get the treatment "fit" right for them. My BPDs has a similar view, very black and white, based on previous experiences with a small number of professionals (all pre diagnosis) he belittles everything about them. Because of this view, he doesn't seek treatment. With 6 failed appointments since mid Jan I wait patiently for him to go for his first uk mental health assessment.

The more I learn the more I understand. In my mind, it's all about confidence that it's going to work, he doesn't have any. Neither is he in a situation where he's desperate to try anything. I sincerely hope that your daughter finds her way to the right treatment soon.

I will buy the manual but after I've read "I don't have to fix everything". I'm going to print out the DEArman scenario for my H to read. I'm going to use "I feel, I need" statements. Baby steps for me!

L

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Children, Parents, or Relatives with BPD => Son, Daughter or Son/Daughter In-law with BPD => Topic started by: Lollypop on March 14, 2016, 03:25:25 PM