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I've written a couple of rough drafts of posts over the last couple of days but this issue is the one that got my attention: mirroring. It was a little thing, but its the thing I'm going to write about.

My partner used to call me all kinds of little pet names, and I noticed that he screen captured a text where he has me listed under my name now. He used to have me listed under a pet name. I've been sending him screen captures of texts under his name for a while now. I feel like he was doing a monkey see, monkey do, if I'm going to call him by his name instead of 'daddy' which is what I used to call him, then he's going to call me by name instead of sugar boo or some other affectionate name.

If I were to nickname him in my contacts right now it would be 'liar', I'm sure he wouldn't want to see that.

I've been gradually deleting my pictures of his prior visits, and screenshots from prior facetime, both ones I took and ones he sent me.

This taps into the other issue I wanted to talk about which I was going to title "do I have to listen to this" which I think I will address in a separate post.

 

Is any of this healthy for you to be engaging in or thinking about?

Help me understand how any of these issues move your r/s to a better place?

FF

FF I don't know but the mirroring behavior of BPD really bothers me and I wonder if it ever stops. This would be an example of mirroring behavior that really gets under my skin. How do you deal with mirroring behavior? How would you suggest I deal with it?

It is his problem.  There is nothing for you to deal with.

Can you allow him to keep that issue without taking it upon yourself?

He calls  me by my name when he wants to insult me he calls me a pet name when he wants to flatter me. Case in point: when I tried to make a serious comment about his marital status making it inappropriate for him to make comments to me about giving me hickeys he hung up on me and then texted me "good night unicorn". I'm not allowed to respond to any of that? I didn't, didn't call him back, didn't text him back, but I don't see why he's allowed to act like a jerk and I'm just supposed to take it. I have to say it felt pretty empowering to tell him I wanted him to take me seriously after he accused me of ending the conversation , that's actually what earned me the hang up, and I wouldn't take that back. In fact I'm glad I ended the conversation.

It has nothing to do with being "allowed" or not,

Please turn your thinking to healthy choices for you.

FF

Fine, what is a healthy way to express or deal with my frustration ?

I would suggest going for a vigorous walk. 

I just got back from one, yes at 11:30 at night I just got back.  I am going to stretch, take a jacuzzi bath and get some sleep.

All very deliberate choices on my part to focus on self care, NOT involve others in it because I have had an incredibly frustrating day.

Those feelings are mine, and it's my responsibility to manage them.

Feeling much better after a walk, expect to be good to go in the morning.

FF

Yes FF, I've been for a walk, am taking a hot bath, I actually feel great since I'm not talking to him. I called him at 6:21, he hung up on me after 31 min, he called me back at 8:12pm, I answered, he hung up. I'm quite happy we were done talking for the day at 6:52pm.

Please someone soften this... .  I do not mean it in a harsh way... .this is going to sound way harsh.   I do not know how to make this sound more gentle and also be clear about communicating info Unicorn deserves to hear if able, so here goes... .


I recall you expressing lots of resentment over him using pet names.  However, now he is using your actual name in his phone and you are triggered.  Is there a way for him to refer to you that does not conjure up resentments within you?  Is there a title on his phone he could write that you would feel loving towards him about it, or neutral? _{(This is rhetorical... .as you cannot dictate his language anyway)}

How do you get past the initial hello of a communication in a positive way when you have issue with how he refers to you?

It sounds like you are taking your resentment out on him for his behavior and punishing him for your own bad feelings about things.

Yes, anyone would be resentful to discover, after years, that their SO is married and after many months of having opportunity to divorce, has made little progress!  That is horrible!  That is beyond horrible!

However, the good news and the bad news is... .this is not about him.

Good: Because you get to take control of your stuff/choices

Bad: Because taking control of your stuff/choices often feels crummy

YOU own your choices today:

You choose today, to be in a LDR with a man who is married. _{... .yes, you did not get to this place by honest means, however, your choice to continue.}

This is your choice. 

Accept it.

Own it.

Take back your power.

Don't beat him over the head with it!

Neither of you deserve this.

Sunflower, I don't mind him calling me pet names, I got over that. What I mind him doing is hanging up on me because I said was uncomfortable listening to him talk about not giving me a hickey like my daughter's crush gave her and point out to him our problems are far more complicated: he's married and living in another state. Then after hanging up on me he texts me "good night unicorn". That was not friendly, that was a jab, it was dismissing me. Oh, I just got this passive aggressive gem
. He's totally baiting me and that's not fair. Me hurt him? I'm not the one that lied to him about my marital status and then continued to carry on with him as if everything was ok. He used me as an escape from his life. He's more interested in dealing with stock brokers then divorce lawyers and I'm the one who hurt him? What's not fair is I'm supposed to lie down and take that kind of treatment and not retaliate. All because I said he shouldn't be talking about anything sexual with me until he's divorced. He's still acting like everything's ok meanwhile he's got me on the line for years. That's fine if he's not going to let me hurt him anymore. That's fine if he wants to blame me. I'm not going to react to him, I'm going to ignore him. It's 12:54am where he's at and nobody in their right mind would be sending the woman they love texts like that at that time of night.

He has a fairly predictable arsenal of ways to take digs at you when he is upset with you.

It's his BPD tool box.

You aren't going to get fairness. You feel how you feel. It hurts, it's frustrating. You don't like it, it's been a huge let down. You put years into the relationship.

Resentment and pain. Simply, unless you can find ways to manage these very normal feelings you are having, you will continue to engage in conflict with him. He keeps coming at you for love, he let you down, so you rap him on the nose. He retaliates and attempts to manipulate you into feeling rejected, too.

Dynamic is understandable intellectually. I think you see it and feel it deeply. The rest of us see it.

I think you are stuck in a really difficult position. You are very upset with him, but trying to remain present. I only see a couple of ways for you to find peace:

1. End the relationship

2. Accept the relationship as it is, and learn enough detachment so the added conflict doesn't completely ruin the feeling of love you have for your partner, while he works through his divorce. This will call for a lot of re-framing what is happening, self care,  and resetting of expectations.

It totally sucks what has happened to you here. I completely get where you are coming from. The stress can be overwhelming. It's like having a bruise that someone keeps beating on.

If you don't find a way to focus on managing your own self care, you won't be able to hold up. I know this myself very well. I wasn't able to cope, so I let my boyfriend go.

And coping isn't enduring. Eventually the non cracks if they are trying to manage by force of will over themselves.

You need a better way... better self care, ways to stay calm, ways to keep in mind that you are dealing with BPD, not someone who is going to act normal.

Unicorn,

He is choosing to hurt you and you are choosing to hurt him.  It appears that you are both making a choice to be abusive and to blame your abuse on the other person.  In other words, it appears to me that you believe he "deserves" the punishment you are dishing out to him.

My guess is that he probably feels the same way about the things he does to you.

You are making a choice to behave this way.  Own your choices.  Respect yourself and (perhaps) this will help him start to respect you.

This is about you. 

If you can take a few days or a week off from communicating with him, I hope that will help you see this clearer.

FF

FF I didn't hurt him, he hung up on me. All I said was I was uncomfortable with him referencing physical activity in his current state. He's manufacturing drama, not me.

Danielle I'm very interested in reframing  what is happening and resetting my expectations. What do you suggest?

Here's something I need help with. I think him focusing on my daughter is allowing him to distract me from the fact he's not working on his divorce or there are further hold ups with his divorce. I'm hearing about his work, his solo project, his stock broker, my daughter, but not his divorce. Is there a way I can tell him, with all his BPD issues, that I think him helping me with my daughter is distracting him from his divorce and relocation? I mean when I tell him I need something for my daughter he's all over that conversation, procuring information, planning for the future, and frankly I'm getting sick of it. If I tell him that in the wrong way he will get very defensive and then say I don't need him, I've left him, I don't matter to him, etc.

One way to shut that down is stop talking about her with him.

Any other suggestions?

One caveat is sometimes he does say very helpful things, so if I could find a way to not cut myself off from my wisdom while still addressing my issue, that would be great.

FF Also I am not punishing him. All I said yesterday was I was uncomfortable with him referencing not giving me a hickey in his current marital state. That was neither abusive, nor hurtful, nor punishing. I do have actual values, not 'values', and I was trying to uphold them. I didn't say anything insulting to him.

 

Unicorn,

I understand you may not be consciously thinking, "he is bad, therefore I will (fill in the blank)". (to punish him)

My biggest reason that I am saying that you need to step back, step away from the r/s (Not breakup) is so that you can gain some perspective in YOUR ROLE in they dysfunction and abuse that is going on in this r/s.

You can't change him, but you can change your role.  

Focusing on minutiae of how many hangups or a proper response to this particular text is ignoring a much bigger issue  in you THAT IS DESTROYING THE RELATIONSHIP one hangup, one text, one denial of culpability at a time.

I care about you and success of your r/s.  I'm a stayer at heart even though "deciding and conflicted" is my home board (for now).  You obviously care for the guy.  I hope you care about you.  

Stepping away will give you time to focus on what that issue is and what steps you can take to address it.  

FF

Formflier, I haven't talked to him since yesterday. I called him yesterday to say good night, but he wasn't around so I left a simple message in a friendly tone, I love you, good night. I haven't called him yet this morning.

Yesterday's hang up, by him, was not like the rest. I was telling him my daughter's crush gave her a hickey, he said "I'll never do that to you", and that made me uncomfortable. I told him he first of all that wasn't appropriate for somebody our ages and second of all he shouldn't be talking to me about that until he was divorced. Dead silence. The after I went in the store I said "are we done having an awkward silence?" He responded "one, its not awkward and two I essentially shut the conversation down by what you said."

He prides himself on being able to be dead quiet on the phone but not be having an awkward silence. I find that infuriating.

I said "good, I'm glad I shut the conversation down, I want you to take me seriously".

He hung up on me, didn't call back, I didn't call back, later when I checked my texts he said "good night unicorn", I didn't respond to that, as it was snarky. He sent it at a time he was not going to bed and neither was I. He also prides himself on only needing 4-5 of hours of sleep a night, he claims 1am is his bed time and he gets up at 6am.

I find all of that very annoying, his ability to not be awkwardly silent on the phone, his lack of need for sleep.

However I did not say anything abusive or punishing to him no matter which way you slice it. I was standing up for my values, I didn't say anything derogatory to him, I was simply stating facts.

I haven't called him yet this morning, I can see he's texting me what about what he told my daughter about her crush, he's trying to connect to me that way. I haven't picked up yet.

I really do feel that him focusing on my daughter is allowing him to not focus on himself. On the other hand I do appreciate having someone to talk to about my daughter in the moment. So if there is a way to reframe what is happening here  and reset my expectations around this, that would be great.

I think I keep hearing a similar message to you from the board:

Take steps back UNTIL... .

You can engage from a place of love and compassion

     You can choose to step back in daily interactions before conflict occurs

     You can choose self care over engaging in conflict

     You can accept his limitations and lower your expectations to his ability

I am hearing much more resentment for him than love for in your expressions.

There is BLEEDING happening NOW!

You must hold constant pressure to stop bleeding.

You cannot dab the wound and hope it heals.

The dabbing is keeping the skin raw and allowing bleeding to continue.

I do not hear that you love and desire and have compassion for him and feel encouraged and grateful and better by this relationship.

Step back until you can cope with your resentment alone.  Step back until the love flows through you and you can engage from a place of only/mostly love.

 

Unicorn,

At any point in your last response did you try to discuss the point of my post?

Does anyone else see where that was addressed or discussed?


My guess is that your phone calls and texts to your SO are much like the posts here.  He has been consistently expressing to you through words and actions that he does not like many parts of the way you communicate.  

How do you think he feels about that?

FF

Re framing... .what happens if you set aside the idea that this person with BPD can be taught by confrontation from you to behave like you want him to?

You are a very direct person. On one hand it's a really positive trait. On the other, it's not working for you in this relationship in the context of protecting your values/boundaries.

Other than being so direct, how can you communicate your discomfort? Your discomfort is telling you more than just that he needs to be respectful to your feelings. YOU need to be respectful to your feelings. I think the breakdown here is in style of communication more than the message you want to send.

At this point, you are extremely self protective and smack him everytime he triggers a negative response in you. Unicorn. I get it. What people are saying here is disengage without drama and stay back until you are able to respond from a stance of calm and lack of upset.

What does it take for you to be able to do that? He hangs up, you don't call him back. He starts texting you, you feel cornered, annoyed, resentful and hurt. You can't give a kind or healthy ( relationship wise) response under those conditions.

You know your own self, how long does it take for you to calm down after such an incident? What do you feel (internal pressure, anxiety, fear, feelings of causing him to abandon you) if you actually do stay back and do self care until you actually are in that calm and loving state?

How long? And what makes you feel you have to re-engage while still upset?

This is what I got from him
Why is he allowed to talk to me like that?

Spurned his affections? Because I set a boundary with a married man? I crossed the line with him? He's been crossing the line with me for years.

Also I haven't created any drama, I'm merely reporting how he's treating me and how it makes me feel. I've not engaged in one argument with him since he hung up on me yesterday evening. This is all him.

Lordy. He is always accusing you of crossing the line. He states up front he is feeling rejected.

Little bit of existential burst going on there.

What I would do ( and I am not you) is text back let's take a break for the rest of the day and I will touch base with you tomorrow.

Then leave it at that. Touch base with him tomorrow. If he ignores you, let it lie. He will snit and snuff and cuss himself around, and then once he is calm, likely you will hear a polite hello in the day or so after.

In the meantime, you can think of ways to respond to him in a calm and caring way when he does make that contact.

There's more, I found these on Facebook messenger
I don't really care if he's feeling rejected.

I'm rejecting the relationship as it is now in the hopes he will change his situation.

Of course I can't say that to him because he'll have a meltdown .

He's lucky I'm still putting up with him.

When he called this morning I answered with a polite "good morning" the call dropped.

I told him in response to his burst of texts that I'd call him in 10 minutes and I'm going to do a polite check in, with a timer on for 5 minutes.

I'm not picking up his garbage but I'm also sick of being thrown up on by him.

btw, no one is "allowing" him to talk to you that way. He just does it.  

You can't control that by smacking him down when he does it.

It took me AGES to start backing away and going off to do other things when my ex was being a huge pill. I was afraid if I did he would leave forever. So I hung around and confronted and explained and argued. Everything got so much worse.

I only started feeling better when he did nasty things and I said to myself, Danielle is not ok with that, so Danielle excused herself and went and self cared for a day or two. Or a week.

You teach him by not sticking around for the drama, that you will not have the drama dumped on top of you.

And to validate you, YES, that man is being a deliberate PIA.

Don't take it. When he is, go quiet and walk off until he has something polite and respectful to say.

Guess what? I got another one on Facebook messenger from his other account.
Why is he allowed to talk to me like this?

He knows I'm exhausted to my core because of events with d15. Now he's treating me like dirt. I don't know why I put up with this. I'm not his emotional punching bag. I unplugged my phone so I could sleep. He thinks he's so important that he has to call my landline which I keep for official purposes.

The only person who allows it is you.

Why do you allow it?

Thank you Danielle what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me. Unicorn is definitely not ok with being treated or talked to this way and unicorn knows if she says as much she'll get blamed, shamed and verbally/emotionally maimed.

The wrong question is being asked here.

Why is unicorn paying attention to him when he speaks to her this way.

Unicorn controls her ears and her eyes.  She should take them elsewhere if she doesn't like what they see or hear.

He knows it bugs Unicorn, that's why he does it.

FF

Sunflower I don't allow it, I can't stop it, all I can do is not engage it, and look for him to be polite and reward that when he does. I'm going to have a 5 min polite check in call with him shortly . I hope I can avoid getting into any drama.

This is why, this is EXACTLY why we keep imploring Unicorn to step away for a week, couple weeks, whatever.

She may start missing the guy or caring about him during that period of time.

If she does, then find a healthy way to continue.

If she doesn't miss him, then find a way to end the relationship.

The emotional warfare Unicorn has been choosing to engage in is unhealthy for both parties in the r/s.

FF

Formflier I didn't look at that stuff until today, I did disengage. Yesterday the thing that threw me off was the silent treatment after I established a boundary. He prides himself on being able to be comfortable being silent on the phone. To me it's a waste of time. I haven't reacted to any of the trash he's thrown my way since last night.

Im not engaging in emotional war fare.

I'm trying to stay in a relationship I find morally reprehensible by encouraging him to do the right thing. He's the one being aggressive not me.

I'm

Following your advice and doing a 5 min check in call shortly.

I haven't responded to any of his accusations.

Also I don't not care about him but any reference to his physical attraction to me makes me uncomfortable at this point. All I did yesterday was establish a boundary. I didn't put him down, insult or reject him. I took care of me.

Please follow my advice and check in with him in a week.

FF

If he has been crossing the line with you for years, why do you continue to allow him to do that? When people have issues that repeatedly come up, usually, they are getting something out of the situation. Once they discover how the situation benefits them, they can understand how they contribute to the issues.

How is it benefiting you personally?

I wonder if this has anything to do with it

If he wasn't married and living out of state I would want to be in a relationship with him so I'm patiently waiting for him to change those things. I'm treating him like a close friend at this point, he still thinks we're in an intimate relationship. I love him but I'm not going to be intimate with him again until he changes those two things. I can't tell him this again because it will set him off but he knows where I stand. All I did yesterday was gently remind him of this boundary and it set him off. I suppose next time I can just ignore his comment which will also get a blast of hot air. Or I can simply not tell him next time  my d15 shows up with a hickey on her neck because then he will have nothing to reference, even if it's to say he would never do that to me, at least not on purpose. Those were his words and that's what made me uncomfortable .

|iiii 

I tried being polite and this is what I get
How do you suggest I respond? I haven't said anything yet. He's being very hurtful. He expects me to miss him after the way he treated me last night?

So, you're hoping that he will change so that you will be able to be in a relationship and live closer together -- in the future. I imagine that you would like more contact, including in-person contact at that time.

We were in a relationship until I found out his divorce hadn't been filed and called it off. That was last September. I haven't seen him since last June. My values don't allow me to be in an intimate relationship with a married man. Now he's being very punitive to me because I established a boundary with him last night. This is very hard.

Yes it is very hard Unicorn, boundaries are.

Boundaries are hard because they can protect you from perpetuating the dysfunction, but you also run the risk of alienating him further and loosing him.

If you can keep yourself from just not responding/reacting to these kind of comments when he makes them and responding only to interactions that feel ok for you, then you are modelling the types of healthy responses that you want to form part of your friendship.

How does that sound to you?

Let go of the drama and who is right/wrong. Let go of the hurt feelings or the resentment enough to take yourself out of the day to day drama



Step 2 - Take a step backward

Things aren't as they once were. They probably haven't been for a long time. You have tried everything you can to resolve matters. Things got better for a while, but there were problems again. For some things, you have just given up.

It may not be obvious to you,but all of this has damaged you. You are likely now a part of the problem, too. Most likely you have lost your ability to see things clearly. You may have lost your ability to feel things properly. You may be deeply caught up in the drama, too close to everything to actually see.

You need space. Emotional space. Intellectual space.

This may not be easy to do. In the past this may have triggered your partner to be more consuming and needy. Or maybe they pushed you away and became angry or retaliatory. Or maybe you wanted them to notice and they didn't, leaving you feeling hurt.

When our partner suffers from borderline personality disorder, they often like to control our "space". It gives them comfort. Taking away that comfort is often triggering to them. After all, fear of abandonment and rejection sensitivity are classic symptoms of this disorder.

So, this is a bit of a delicate thing. The objective is not to move out and live on a mountain - it is simply to let go of the drama and the battle of who is right/wrong. Let go of the hurt feelings or the resentment just enough to take yourself out of the day to day drama - long enough for you to see things more clearly.

You should do this privately without notifying your partner - just quietly make time. Maybe take more time at the gym, more time in the yard working, maybe extend a business trip by a day or two. Quietly clear enough time/peace so you can re-balance yourself, think more clearly, and be a little more open minded.

For now, accept that things are not what you want them to be, that they may not be fair, and that bad things have happened. Accept that your partner has a complex disorder that is not just going to go away. This is not to say that we should agree with any of this or to say that it is OK. It's just important to surrender a bit here, let go of the drama.

How do you do this? You know your partner better than anyone. You know what it will take. Maybe admit that you are wrong, maybe postpone things, maybe give in to some simple things your partner wants. It's not a lifetime commitment, it's just a way to buy time.

Self care is important here - see your dentist, exercise, get enough sleep, eat well. This will all help to clear your mind.

They may feel they "won". You may feel they "won". Just take comfort in knowing that the wise general knows about sacrificing a battle to win the overall war. For now, we're probably not sure exactly what war this is and this is one of the reasons why you need this healthy space.

Reread! |iiii

Listen, this is the type of emotional warfare I am talking about and you are denying, and they posting about doing.

Tell him where he stands, let him make a choice to continue the r/s or not.

Reasonable to give him the opportunity to tell you where you stand.

Take time away after getting this information and consider your future.

You are doing the same type of thing to him that he did to you.  That is punishing.  I'm not aware of any r/s that has improve by one partner (even one who may have legitimate grievances) punishing the other for their transgressions.

You have the power to stop the bloodletting or to continue it.  This is on you, not him.

Yes this is very frank, direct talk.  I hope you can hear it.

FF

I am not punishing him. I tried to have a civil 5 min conversation with him and I had to end it because he was attacking me. When I hung up this is what I got
I appreciate your posts and will reread them. He's being very hurtful to me because I'm not encouraging him to think about our physical relationship. He's the one who's actually punishing me for upholding my boundary. I haven't said anything insulting or hurtful to him.

That sounds good. I tried to have a civil 5 min conversation with him and when I told him I was hurt and saddened by how he was treating me he threw it back in my face so I hung up on him as I was outside the library. I'm not pushing him away or rejecting him, I'm simply not comfortable with him referencing our physical relationship at this point in time. He's the one that's mistreating me which is why I ended the conversation . I know the ground I am standing on is solid, but I'm in a lot of pain.

He claims calling me was a mistake.

I'm not going to respond to his attempts to manipulate me and this is going to be hard. He thinks he's entitled to treat me this way, he sees nothing wrong with what he is doing. I feel emotionally abused and its up to me to distance myself from him until he can treat me civilly. This is very difficult .

Do you think he believes he is being hurtful to you?

FF

Yes it is difficult very difficult.  

There is no quick fix for this and it might be painful for some time to come.

You're right it is up to you to protect yourself emotionally from what is happening, but you can still reach out to him on a day to day level, keeping things focused around safe, neutral subjects that are not triggering. Does this sound doable for you, are there other options you could think of ?

He is most likely going to continue to see there is nothing wrong with what he is doing, it will be up to you to model appropriate behaviour and responses without stating directly what it is about his behaviour that is upsetting you. How do you feel about doing this?

Taking tiny, safe, incremental steps might help you deal better with how you are feeling, so that you feel less hurt and overwhelmed.  

Will you stop hanging up on him?

Why do you hang up on the guy. You are insisting he treat you with consideration and respect and you refuse to even hold your own self to that standard.


Is it really that hard to say I need to go, goodbye?

We are talking about basic standards of behavior here.

Just because someone is being difficult you retaliate?

Stop retaliating. Stop retaliating. Stop retaliating.

He apologized so I think I weathered this storm.

Okay, lets go back to the phone call... .


After he said that he wouldn't do that to you, you told him what he should and shouldn't do. Those are not boundaries. Boundaries are lines to protect ourselves, not to control what the other person does or doesn't do. They usually start with "I" statements. In this case, "I am uncomfortable talking about the physical aspects of our relationship while you are married/unavailable, so I cannot talk to you anymore right now." Then you follow through on that.

When things are expressed in "you should/shouldn't/can/can't", those are ways that we try to control other people; they aren't boundaries.

Yes! I called him back when I got home and we had a 5 min conversation about my d15, he wanted to report some progress to me. He apologized for hurting me.  Once he realized he had hurt me he actually asked to start over. Initially I said we could talk when I got back from my d15 orientation tonight but then he called me so I called him back. Everything seems to be fine for now, I told him I didn't react to him and it seems not to have caused any lasting damage so we can move forward now. That felt good. I have one win under my belt.


I think I can do this. I didn't react to him last night or this morning I finally told him how I felt this afternoon, he could hear the emotion in my voice because I was sad and hurt and that is why he apologized. I don't think he realized he hurt me so I suppose it was good I was vulnerable with him. I think I can put this little storm behind us without much damage, and perhaps be just a tiny bit prepared for the next one: don't react. It seemed to have worked this time so I think I will try it again next time.


Thank you so much, that was very helpful. I was able to affirm to him that I want to be in a relationship with him, that I don't want to talk about the past, that I am waiting for him to divorce and relocate. That to me is being as affirmative as I can. It is letting him know I still want to be with him despite everything we have been through together and that I am still waiting, patiently, and calmly, for him to get his act together.

There is another issue I want to talk about, his sensitivity to me, specifically around his relationship to my d15. On the one hand he wants me to pay attention to it, on the other hand if I do pay attention to it I get punished for it. Is there a way I can bring this up to him?

I wasn't retaliating, I was following the advice of a sr. ambassador. It doesn't matter who hung up on whom. I was taking a step back. I was in a public place and he was attacking me. I gave myself 5 min on the phone call. He didn't have a bad reaction to the hang up, in fact he apologized for hurting me, and he called me back. There was another woman sitting in the same area I was in and I didn't think it was an appropriate place to have that conversation as well.

Last night's problem was him telling me he would never give me a hickey like my d15's crush gave her, and me telling him that wasn't appropriate for him to talk about while he was still married. He got insulted and offended but I was just upholding a boundary. I didn't say anything nasty or insulting. He just doesn't get it. There is no going back to what we once had until he is divorced. I don't bring it up except when he crosses my boundary. I didn't react to him hanging up on me or to him being nasty to me but when I did talk to him this afternoon he could hear the hurt in my voice and he apologized because it was real.

A former site director said it right when he said that I bent my values to be in a relationship with him because he said he was getting a divorce but when I found out it wasn't filed that changed everything, my boundaries snapped back into place. The only reason I permitted the relationship in the first place is because he assured me he was getting a divorce.

I also learned from another sr. ambassador on this site, as well as others on this thread not to talk about his divorce. That's very hard for me, on the one hand I want to know where it's at, on the other hand I have to stay out of it, and I have been. I only affirm that I'm waiting for him to get a divorce when he crosses my boundary.

Its a very difficult situation.

I hear what you are saying and I got the wording wrong, but the sentiment right. Next time I will say what you said, I will write it down in my notebook so I can memorize it. He accused me of shutting down the conversation and I told him he was right, I was, because I wanted him to take me seriously, and that's when he hung up on me. Thank you for your suggestion, I will take it to heart.

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I should add that whenever I point out to him he's still married his latest line is that his lawyer says its just a contract. I of course have not talked to his lawyer on the phone have not seen any documentation, have just heard his words. To me what he is saying is insulting and demeaning, its basically dismissing and discounting my feelings as if they don't matter. How do you suggest I respond to that?

Also for me it would be "... .while you are married/living in another state" because the unavailability of a LDR is now very uncomfortable and inappropriate for me. What do you think?

And this answers the question how?

FF

Unicorn I think for now and perhaps for a while wherever you possibly can, keep things low key, emotionally safe, neutral and away from potentially triggering difficult areas.

Areas involving your daughter, the divorce, all things BPD  :). I understand that this will probably feel counter intuitive to you, going against how you have been trying to resolve and improve things between you before, remember though this will protect you, reduce the potential for conflict.

What matters for now is helping yourself feel better, calmer, more grounded, remember again, there is no rush, things are as they are for now.

Focus on things you enjoy doing together, little things, good things, enjoyable things, what are they? Make a list if necessary to help you reframe your expectations and bring your focus back to less triggering areas.

Where can you invest your energy positively to get the best outcome for the relationship as it is today? Keep yourself in the moment, now, nowhere else, can you do that?

Unicorn in choosing to stay, the hard work will be done by you, as unfair as it may sound, that's the reality of a relationship with someone with BPD. As the non, the healthier person, if you choose to accept, and it sounds like you have already *), it will be up to you to be the one leading by example, modelling healthy emotional behaviours and interactions. How does this sound, doable with support and guidance?

Thank you sweetheart. This is very difficult. Today after berating me for only valuing him for his contribution to my d15 he wanted me to pay attention to the progress he made with her. Then when I said congratulations on your progress he said he was doing it for us. Its a no win situation for me.


Its difficult because it is a LDR but I am very interested in the work he does, both for other people and for himself. That is something we can talk about. We also enjoy talking about cooking and gardening and fashion and literature and tv and cinema together. That is why I enjoy the relationship so much when we are getting along, we have so many connection points.


Yes that is why I come to this board and that is why I think this particular situation was a win as I did not react, and I have a better way of responding next time instead allowing him to give me the ST: "I am uncomfortable talking about the physical aspects of our relationship while you are still married and living out of state, so I can not talk to you anymore right now." Yesterday I allowed him to stay on the phone with me without saying anything at all which was a waste of my time and his time and I don't want to go through that again.

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