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It's my birthday today. My story is here in case somebody wants to read it https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=291224.0

I knew it would be a difficult day and it is... .I had been thinking for days whether or not I should reply to a happy birthday wish from him and I couldn't make up my mind. But I did. I replied with a thank you. But as I had guessed he continued with more messages telling me that he misses me, loves me and all. And now I am dying to tell him I miss him too... .It's been a month of no contact today. I miss him terribly but I shouldn't. He broke my heart in a million pieces. I don't know what to do... . 

Hi Penelope

It's no wonder you feel torn when he that you love most seems hell-bent on your emotional destruction. 

If give him the courtesy of a reply then he's likely to keep pushing until you cave in. If you really don't want that to happen NC would appear to be the only option unless you feel mentally strong enough to continue your exchanges with him without capitulating.

If you feel that you really have to respond then something along the lines of 'it's been a tough time for both of us - but I'm sure we'll emerge stronger for it' would suffice. Then turn off your phone pronto!


Fanny

Thank you for the reply Fanny. What's holding me from not responding is that I know I still don't feel strong enough. If I open a way of communication with him again, which I kind of did with the thank you, I am afraid I will fall back to the place I was a month ago. This, and the fact that he doesn't deserve to know I still love him and miss him. He really doesn't. I love him and think about him all day every day but I just can't digest all that has happened.

I am probably going to spend all day debating with myself about replying or not... .oh this is so hard!

I think you've answered your own question my lovely - you can't safely re-engage him. 

Go out and do something you enjoy and find a positive distraction to take your mind off him - otherwise I fear you will be taking a peep into Pandora's box, and in the borderline version not even hope remains.


Fanny

I went and read your story and so much of it resonated with me... .the emotional abuse that is inherent in BPD r/s's (even though it's the outcome of the chaos of the disorder and isn't usually purposeful), the chronic lying... .and especially the words that  that are so breathtaking and beautiful that they touch our hearts and lead us to believe that we have found "the one". I'm so sorry for the pain you're in right now. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

There are many lessons on this board, and I thought of this one after I read your post - it's about the 10 beliefs that can keep you "stuck" in a BPD r/s:

6) Clinging to the words that were said

We often cling to the positive words and promises that were voiced and ignore or minimalize the negative actions. “But she said she would love me forever” Many wonderful and expressive things may have been said during the course of the relationship, but people suffering with BPD traits are dreamers, they can be fickle, and they over-express emotions like young children – often with little thought for long term implications. You must let go of the words. It may break your heart to do so. But the fact is, the actions - all of them - are the truth.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality)

But the fact is, the actions - all of them - are the truth.

For some reason, it took me a loong time to fully recognize that my ex's words and actions rarely aligned. The longer and harder I looked at that, the more I realized I could never go back. Even though I missed her. Even though there were things about her that I loved. Even though I recognized that she had mental health issues that weren't her fault. Going back would be akin to abusing myself.

I know... .I just wish my heart would catch up... .It's a good thing I have things planned for today. And a good circle of friends who won't allow for me to be alone on this day. Thank you Fanny

Your heart will catch up eventually.  It is great you have a good circle of friends.  Enjoy your birthday with people who actually care for your well being.   This can be the present you give yourself.  :)

Ηι jhkbuzz. I have read this article before but thanks for reminding me. I do understand how this relationship and break up worked/works on me and in theory I agree with everything that says you need to let go but obviously the human brain has this flaw of remembering only the good stuff... .It is almost like I need to constantly remind my self of everything that has happened and of the reasons why I shouldn't want to be with him.

His actions rarely aligned with his words and I can't forgive my self for holding onto hope for so long. It's bad... .and sad that I never got angry with him and I am still struggling to not tell him how I feel... .

Thank you and I am sorry for what you also had to go through. I hope you are in a better place than I am

Thank you C.Stein. It's hard to grasp that he doesn't really care for my well being. But it's the truth, because if he did he would have stopped at the happy birthday wish.

Thank you - I'm about a year and a half post b/u and I'm in a much, much better place.

"The human brain has a flaw of remembering only the good stuff... ."

It took me time to resolve that. It was like I divided her into two people... .the "good her" (who was utterly wonderful and amazing) and the "bad her" (who was an emotionally abusive liar and cheater). And I couldn't seem hold both images of her in my brain at once, so I would swing between depression ("I miss her!" and anger ("I hate her!"

It took me a long time to "connect" my brain and my heart, and integrate the reality that someone who is so wonderful in some ways can be so god-awful in other ways. But somehow, it was true. I'm finally able to view her wholistically - that such good and awful can be wrapped up in a single person.

For a long time I was hung up on the beginning of our r/s. It was so amazing and I felt so loved. Was any of it genuine? Was there any way to get back to that "state"? I do believe she loved me. But I've come to understand that the entire r/s was dysfunctional - even the wonderful parts at the beginning. I read a quote recently that really sums it up:

"BPD is not an illness. There is no 'healthy' part of the person plus BPD part. Their personality is disordered. Complete personality. It is not like mental illness that you can isolate with medication so that healthy part of the personality can 'come out'.

All the good stuff (mostly idealization) and all the bad stuff (mostly devaluation) is under the influence of the disorder. Stop looking at her in this perspective (great part plus BPD). It is not true and it will make you unable to detach."

I found a therapist as my r/s was ending and it has been invaluable to my healing. My therapist helped me process the b/u (which was like none other I've ever experienced) and has also helped me address some very old wounds in me that have needed healing. Are you seeing anyone?

Mine doesn't even seem to care at all so I guess it all depends on how you look at. I still can't stop thinking about her to the point where I'm going to start believing that this stuff isn't real

My ex was very good at dissociating and shutting down her emotions when she became overwhelmed. In the "lingo" of psychology, this is called the "detached protector." Emotions that threaten to overwhelm are turned off. When someone is in this mode they appear utterly cold and completely uncaring. In truth it's the exact opposite - their emotions are so off the charts that they completely shut down.

Very sad for them, but also utterly heartbreaking for the people who love them.

Jhkbuzz I read that quote recently in a post and I liked the explanation so much that I even screen shotted it so that I could read it again when I needed. Maybe it was in one of your posts.

Yes this seems to be my problem too. I honestly can't comprehend how this same man who at times made me feel so special and the happiest I had ever been, could also bring me so much unhappiness and hurt. But you are right. The happy parts were also dysfunctional and although I had recognised that from the beginning I couldn't bring my self to the ground.

Some days I am more in peace with things because I manage to be more in terms and accepting of how BPD works with people. But some others it's just TOO MUCH AND TOO HEAVY. Like today.

I am seeing a therapist but sometimes I get the feeling that she doesn't really understand BPD. Yesterday I left her office more upset than I was when I went and had to come in the forum and read to put my thoughts in order again. This page has been invaluable. I hope I manage to go through this day without responding.

From reading other people's posts I came to the undertanding that it is equally hurtful whether they keep contact or not. The fact is that whatever the case is, it is on us to detach and realise that the relationship is over and that we don't need or deserve it.

Good Morning & Happy Birthday Penelope!   

I know what you're going through is hard ... .even harder giving what today is. In a very short thread you have received some amazing guidance & counsel here from people who know what you're going through. Everyone takes a step backwards on their journey ... .you are no different.  You just happen to take your step backwards on your birthday ... .some do it on Christmas, New Years or some other holiday ... .but each of us on our own journey has done it. 

Everyone here has held up a hand to help you up ... .and now you need to take the next step ... .and you have plans to do that with your friends taking you out and spending time with you today and this weekend. Fanny gave you some guidance to go back to complete NC ... .but you said you don't feel strong enough. YOU are strong enough & ONLY YOU can do it!   No matter what guidance, support we give you ... .the final choice HAS been and will ALWAYS be YOURS to make!  DO NOT allow him to control YOU and YOUR actions!  YOU are the master of your own destiny!   

We all have our moments of weakness when it comes to our exBPD s/o ... .we're human     As you point out, our brain only wants to remember the good times ... .it's because as NONs & codependents we want to remain forever positive!  It's a behavior we have learned growing up ... .we look at the glass as 1/2 full.  But the BPD s/o comes over and knocks the glass over and empty's it out constantly ... .because they want ... .they NEED to be in control of our relationship ... .they NEED to be in control of US the NON.  I know just how hard it is ... .I really do ... .but as someone else pointed out ... .it's going to get better. YOU made it a whole month with NC ... .it just so happens that your birthday fell on this day to get your 30 NC coin, "AA coin for sober"     So you get your NC coin ... .but today ... .TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!  I think someone already said that ... .maybe they made a movie out of it ... .or a song ... .maybe I should ... .    You have to keep some humor too. 

I've said to more then one person in these forums ... .30 days makes a habit and I'm sure you've read those. 30 days of eating healthy, you start to feel better, loose weight and you start to loose the craving for that piece of chocolate cake ... .30 days of exercise, your body becomes harder, you loose some weight, and you actually begin to want to get up to go for that run ... .go to the gym and work out.  BUUT  you know that everyone who starts to eat healthy will eventually eat a piece of candy ... .that piece of chocolate cake you find at the store ... .you know that someone working out for 30 days has a slack day and sleeps in. 

IN that moment of weakness those people learn something about themselves ... .they are human & have moments of weakness and cave into that big piece of double fudge chocolate cake, "yes it was me   "  but you feel so bad afterwards ... .you go eat a salad ... .those who take a slack day and feel bad ... .so they add an extra mile to your run.  The point is ... .they start over ... .they get back on the bike they fell off of.  So you must get back on your NC bike and start your ride again.

Fanny makes a great point here ... ."I think you've answered your own question my lovely - you can't safely re-engage him.    "   I would agree with her.  I have a question for you ... .why have you not blocked his phone number & then deleted it?   If you block & delete the number ... .it is a tool to help you in your moments of weakness not to reach out when you've had to many Birthday cocktails & you drunk dial him ... .it's NOT us doing it ... .it's YOU taking an active role in your OWN recovery ... .it's YOU remaining in control of YOUR life! It's YOU standing up for yourself saying ... .NO ... .I won't be the subject to your emotional, physical & mental abuse!

So ... .take control of YOUR life back ... .because at the moment he still has a hold on it ... .block & delete his humber ... .only good can come from this!       

NOOW ... .go out and have an awesome day for your  exiting birth canal celebration!     And because it's your exit birth canal day ... .have that piece of DOUBLE FUDGE CHOCOLATE piece of cake ... .hell have 2!  Then add 2 miles to your run / walk tomorrow! 

Have an great day Penelope!

J

JQ is the best life coach. Can you write a book of daily affirmations in MULTICOLOR FONTS with lots of ?

Serious, though, I get a burst of energy every time you post, and a burning desire to see the sunrise!

Penelope35, happy birthday! I remember on my last birthday wondering if I would hear from him. I didn't. That made me sad at the time, but now I see it was, perhaps unintentionally, a kindness.

Boy oh boy don't I know the "TOO MUCH AND TOO HEAVY" feeling.    I promise you it gets better with time.

My therapist has treated people with BPD, and her validation was INVALUABLE to my healing. I had already figured out a lot on my own, but she listened to me and helped me with some final "puzzle pieces" that helped me put everything to rest. I don't want to suggest that you look for another therapist - but I do know that finding a therapist who was familiar with BPD, DID, etc., greatly helped my healing process.

For what it's worth, here's one of those insights.

About a year before we broke up, I became aware that my ex cycled through a "cast of characters." A little girl, an impulsive teen, an adult, a prepubescent boy... .I don't know how I failed to recognize it for so long (8 year r/s), but I did. One could take the lead for a short time or for months. I started reading about Dissociative Identity Disorder, but some of the puzzle pieces didn't fit. It didn't seem as though she had full blown DID, although something was clearly very wrong. I later learned that dissociative disorders are on a spectrum, and DID is at the severe end of the spectrum. She was undeniably dissociative, and I could usually figure out who as in the "lead" since each one had a different affect - but labeling her ":)ID" made me uncomfortable because not all the symptomology fit - and because I'm not a psychologist! Her own therapist eventually labeled this cast of characters as her "parts of self."

Right before we broke up I stumbled across this website and read about how r/s's progress with a person with BPD - and I almost fell on the floor. It was as if someone had peered into my life and wrote the story of my r/s - to a "t". But I couldn't figure out how the BPD fit with the "cast of characters." It made my head spin endlessly, until I was talking to my therapist one day and she simply said, "You know, it's not unusual for only one "part of self" to have BPD." I could almost hear the puzzle pieces clicking into place.

The "teenager" was the one with BPD - and this is who I met. Impulsive, boundary-less, sexual, prone to excessive "fantasy thinking" - this is who idealized me. (Why I responded to this is what I'm digging though in therapy!) Once we moved in together, the little girl appeared. She was anxious, clingy, preoccupied with feeling safe - and I was certain that she would never, ever leave me. Fast forward a few years later when we were having parenting disagreements over my stepdaughter (trust me, it's impossible to co-parent with an adult who's acting like a 5 year old little girl) - and **poof** - the teenager was back. But this time, the teenager was angry, avoidant, and began lying and cheating.

Understanding that this "teenage" part of self had BPD and was engaging in behaviors that I would have NEVER thought possible from her little girl (or adult) part of self helped me make sense of everything that was happening.

What a story, huh? It took me about a year to make sense of it all with my therapist's help.

I appreciate your all's responses so much! And thank you for your wishes!

JQ I agree with steelwork that maybe you should write a book of affirmations! Some days I feel like doing all of the things you are also suggesting and then some others I just want to be alone and cry my heart out.

I know I should block him but I don't seem to be able to bring my self to do it. I have blocked him on social media but not on my phone. I just have his texts going to a spam folder and I check it whenever I feel I want to. And today of course was the first thing I did when I woke up in the morning. It's like I have a constant internal battle about it. A part of me is thinking how much more does somebody have to hurt me before I get angry enough and decide to shut the door and keep the out forever. Sometimes I am thinking how can I still love and care for this person? I feel stupid for having feelings for him. Why did I even had to say thank you for the birthday wishes today? I didn't own him a thank you. He actually doesn't deserve anything more from me. And then another side of me focuses on the lovely side of him and the unforgettable feelings he gave me and makes me miss him SO SO terribly. It's crazy... .

Steelwork, I was expecting a message from him but I was wishing I didn't get one. Because I knew I wouldn't be able to hold my self from replying with at least a thank you and this only brings back that strong attatchment I feel for him. And the messages that followed bring me to my knees because all I want to do is reply but I know it will take me to a much worse place. As hard as it is to admit, there is no future with this person. I wish there was but there isn't  :'(

Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Penelopethirtyfihive... ., happy birthday to you!

(time zone confused so not sure but hoping my beautiful   song is still in time)

Jhkbuzz what a story indeed! And 8 years relationship? Sometimes I feel bad for whining in this forum for a 9 month relationship when others have spent so much time in their own relationships. But to be honest I think I would be the same mess even if it was a two month relationship. It was addictive. 

Thank you for sharing your story and your insights. I am happy for you that you have detached. It gives me hope too!

:) Thank you very much WB! Yes it's still my birthday!

Hello Penelope,

Happy Birthday for the other day.

I understand, perhaps at a differing level, how tense your situation is. I hope these words help.

A narcissistically defended man or woman will see your attempt of NC as a challenge. The very idea that you have the strength to discard him/her and the poor shoddy treatment of you, in favour of the deluded belief that he/she is the centre of not only his/her universe but the central attention of yours is his aim. You rejected him and he'll disguise this crippling feeling with illusions of love for you.

In order to defeat your attempt at NC, which is an affront to his/her existence, he is driven to breach your defences to reinstate himself as your only reason to live (the provision of your love and adoration) he/she will dispatch a whole range of emotionally manipulative tactics. Not because he loves you but because he feeds off the idea that you cannot live without him. DO NOT BE FOOLED.

You've seen and experienced many of these behaviours throughout your experience with him. Did any of them make you feel like you were important to him other than to be his play thing when and wherever he dictated.

Stand your ground ... keep your walls up and don't let him back in. EVER.

He will be forced to find someone else to provide him with the fuel he feels he's entitled to. And you, beautiful woman, will be free to heal, live and love again ... with a man who is capable of real love and is emotionally available to you.

Be strong lady, be strong. x

Hi Caley

thank you for the wishes and for replying. I managed to not respond to his messages but I have to say I felt like I was in a battle. It's amazing how even one message from him sucks me back in so badly.

There are so many harsh realities to face and process and deal with when in a relationship with a person with BPD, that it's devastating to me sometimes. Like the fact that his actions are driven by his needs, that he knows but doesn't care what his messages to do me, that at the same time he may be getting his "supply" from other sources too... .

The only thought that comforts me sometimes is that he is not intentionally hurting me... .

I hope you don't mind me pointing out a little denial here and that you are still finding ways to excuse him for his poor behaviour Penelope.

He does know he is hurting you, and he has many supply lines (ones that you're not aware of and the ones he'll be grooming). That fact that you have begun to show some strength, by denying him access to you, he will take as you trying to show him that you are stronger than him and able to reject him. When he manages to wheedle his way back in, he'll love bomb you, and when he feels the time is right to exact his revenge on you for rejecting him, he'll drop you from an even greater height than he did before.

As a side point ... please remember that many BPD/NPD's are sexually promiscuous ... and they don't care about your sexual health. This being the case, in terms of the widespread, by falling for his superficial and meaningless declarations of 'I have only ever wanted you' and then sleeping with him ... opens you up to the possibility of contracting a plethora of nasties passed around by 'the other supplies'.

Each second, minute, hour, day, week etc., that you maintain NC will bring you renewed strength ... you will be taking away the power over you that you gave to him (naively) and he'll lose his grip on you.

He's a cad and a bounder as Terry Thomas would say.

You cannot dance with the devil and then ask why you're still in hell.

You're stronger than you know ... lock the door and weld it up.

Best wishes. x

People with NPD are very different than people with BPD.  Although you may end up feeling "used" by either, the "intentionality" is typically absent with BPD.

People with NPD are very different than people with BPD.  Although you may end up feeling "used" by either, the "intentionality" is typically absent with BPD.


When the two often share co-morbidity, then it would be difficult to prove 'intentionality'.

I respect your opinion @jhk and you have your own source and experience to draw from. I feel however, that in this particular story there are more examples of narcissistic traits than 'pure' borderline (if there can be such a diagnosis). Dr Shari Shreiber's theory and belief is that BPD is an umbrella under which other disorders are present. So, it may not be possible to separate the two with defining lines.

I don't know... .I may still be in denial but right now I honestly don't feel like he was intentionally hurting me. I mean, he is not cognitively challenged or something so I am sure he knew all along that his actions were hurting me and that I would be devastated when I found out about his marital status and all, but my feeling is that he couldn't always control his actions and way of thinking. This is not an excuse of course but it's more like an explanation for my self given my experience with him. I saw him struggling too. I don't know... .I just don't feel he was out to play and hurt someone and it happened to be me. I do believe his feelings were real when they were expresssed but I have accepted that they were real in the context of BPD. But then again, I may be in a total denial... .

Hi Penelope

Hope you were able to enjoy your birthday and that the tsunami of emotions is abating. Anniversaries and holidays bring emotions to the surface. Oy vey.

Last December I was no contact for about 7 weeks, it was hard. Christmas approaching, lots of emotions around but I was determined to maintain no contact. In the first week of December he put a pendant through my letterbox, it was something I thought I'd lost at his house - before we broke up he said he couldn't find it. It was with a brief, formal note and a formal Christmas card. It threw me into a tizz. He said he'd found it under the mattress.

I didn't know how to interpret this; the formality of the note, put through the door, found under the mattress  

I came on this board for advice. My instinct was to write a brief note of thanks. He's a clever bloke, and a control freak, would never approach me overtly. So I didn't know whether this was an attempt to reconnect or, what it appeared at face value. Advice here was to not contact him and I didn't, although it felt ill mannered. (And to be honest, it gave me a wonderful excuse to break no contact - I had mixed emotions about this - head v heart.)

I'm now six months no contact and I'm very, very, very glad I didn't contact him. That doesn't mean I don't ruminate but it gets better with the perspective of distance. Your contact from him was alongside the heightened emotions of your birthday, when you would be vulnerable. Congratulate yourself for being strong, for riding the tsunami and moving forward in no contact. Look at it as a test, passed with flying colours. Well done you and here's to a new chapter in your life!

Thank you for your kind words and for sharing you experience troisette.  I managed to not respond any further but I still feel unsettled with it all. I hate it that I have to ignore his messages and I hate HOW HARD it is to do that. Sometimes I am so close to giving up!

I also didn't like ignoring the contact I received Penelope. And it's perfectly normal to feel unsettled at this early stage. Keep on keeping on, one day at a time and it will gradually get better. Don't give up and don't break no contact.

No contact is for us, for our wounds to heal, for us to gain knowledge of what we were dealing with and perspective of ourselves as well as them. Breaking no contact puts you back at ground zero, you have start all over again. Not tempting... .

I know... .I broke no contact so many times and always ended up in a much worse place... .This is the first time I stick to it for so long because this time at least my head knows that I can't have a relationship with him. My heart is still behind

I believe there is a good possibility he doesn't know he is hurting you.  He has a need to be validated and doesn't see anything beyond that ... .specifically the impact on you.  My ex did this to me many times and I don't believe she was consciously aware of hurting me.  That said there were some times when she knew what she was doing (going to do) would hurt me but did it anyway. 

C.Stein ... I have read a great deal of your posts and your advice to people is measured, balanced and reasonable. What I have trouble with this is ... you say there is a 'possibility that he doesn't know' he is hurting her and cite that in your own experience with your 'difficult' person is that you don't believe she was consciously aware of hurting you (feelings, moral standards, principles, tacit and implied agreements etc.,), then admit to the truth by realising that there were times when she did know and behaved in the way that she did ( which was planned) regardless of knowing it would hurt you.

What if she and he did and do know? Prior to gratifying their self serving desires that if you found out ... you would be hurt ... what if they did know? I feel that this is where people get stuck, make excuses to alleviate their trauma. Is it that you truly don't believe ... or is it more that you don't 'want' to believe that the person that ensnared you (for your upstanding qualities) could behave so uncaringly towards you?

Perhaps, because often people have been conditioned to internalise and blame themselves for 'not being good enough' when things go wrong ... that this is the reason this person has done what they have done. NOT TRUE ... they did it because they knew that there would be a more than strong possibility they'd be forgiven ... and you would try even harder to 'make things better' or 'fix' whatever it is they say is wrong which drove them to do what they did. Is it so ugly to accept that this is why they chose you ... that you cannot ... will not accept?

It's a tough dilemma ... if you ignore, they'll take it that what they do is OK with you ... and keep doing it. If you explode they'll accuse you of being controlling (an accusation which will really knock you into the orbit of cognitive dissonance and one you will insist you prove is not true) ... and they'll keep doing what they want ... when they want. If you believe the way forward would be to explain your feelings and how their actions affect your feelings/emotions ... guess what? They don't care about how you feel ... they only care about how they feel. You're also telling them that they have control of you, your feelings and emotions, your decision making processes and your altruistic, empathic nature can be used and manipulated but not interfere with their personal agenda. Unless you know what their core fear is ... .YOU cannot solve this puzzle. And, neither should you want to, because which ever way you go ... you'll be defeated.

The only way out ... the only effective way to navigate your way through this ... is to live a healthy life. To care for yourself and others, that have demonstrated again and again their worthiness of your time, affection and love.

Penelope ... your man, in the beginning, loved you (but it was his interpretation of what he thought love to be); he loved you with an intensity beyond healthy love. He believed you were the answer ... the one... the answer to his dilemma and fantasy. Whilst, in the beginning, you reflected back to him his brilliance, omnipotence and God like presence in your life ... he was happy. But, there came a point where you could not sustain giving all of yourself to him without losing your identity, goals, wants, wishes and expectations of self realisation. This was when he started to devalue ... find other 'supplies' that reflected his deluded ideas he had of himself (a fraudulent one) ... because he became aware that you wouldn't cow tow to his every whim ... that you were separate from him, an individual with designs of your own. So he went elsewhere. And when you stood up for your rights and called him out on his schoolyard behaviour ... and demanded explanation and accountability ... you got "Hey honey, you don't need to feel like that ... they're just friends! I'm allowed to have friends, aren't I?'

And then truth has a way of revealing itself ... they weren't friends were they? Nada ... more conquests? He was sleeping with them and they were reflecting back to him his magnificence ... (Urghh ... it makes me sick). And, you? You're now believing 'I'm obviously not good enough because he wouldn't do this if I was?'

Penelope ... you are stronger than him. You are morally centred, kind and giving ... don't settle for anything else in someone else in a romantic intimate attachment.

People like this ... who behave in this way ... are vulnerable and it is possible to 'tame' them. But, you have to possess an element of Machiavellism to exact a balance. It is much easier ... and healthier to just let go of them. And, if that isn't possible at such an early stage of separation ... just loosen your grip. You 'NEED' time apart from him to work this out. This is about you ... NOT HIM ... So try your best to give you the time and space to work out why you fell for a con man.

To keep him ... you must be a willing participant who can ceaselessly extol and reflect the idea that he is perfect ... In every way. The price you will need to consider to pay will be your Self. DO NOT DO THAT ... and do not have children with this man. And, do not give energy to any thoughts that arise that your life could not be better without him.

30 odd days of NC is but a scratch ... commit to yourself today ... and implement NC until you draw your last breath. He will always be in your heart and you will never be free, entirely, of him ... because he has left a scar. Not just with you but with his wife and every other target he's set his sights on.

Someone will come for you ... and he'll be good for you ... trust that this will happen.

Much love. x

Caley: your post is perceptive. Thank you

Caley, it wasn't an admission of truth as much as it was to point out there were times when she knew exactly what she was doing/saying was going to hurt me and times when she didn't.  I don't see a discrepancy here and there is no doubt in my mind this occurred.  The confusion she exhibited when I would point out some of the hurtful behavior was unmistakable.  If she was aware of what she was doing then it wasn't a conscious awareness but rather subconscious due to a learned automated (re)action -> result.  

This is really not much different than a child lashing out at a parent in an emotionally volatile time.  The child has no real knowledge/understanding what they are doing is hurting the other person, they are just acting on their emotions of the moment.  This is (can be) the insidious nature of emotional pain, it is not readily apparent to the person inflicting the pain especially when that person has the emotional intelligence of a child.

Now there were also times when she did know exactly what she was doing and actually warned me (at times) that something she was going to do/say would upset me.  

The discrepancy between the two is time.  When she was cognitively aware that her actions/behavior might hurt me there was a thought process over a period of time that preceded the action/behavior.  When she wasn't aware she was acting on her emotions of the moment, impulsive and reactive like a child.


It just isn't that black and white.  We all function in a grey area, pwBPD are included in that grey.   I know it is easier to just believe borderlines are all same and their actions/behavior are planned and intentionally malicious in nature but this is just not true.  The easiest way to visualize this is imagining your ex is a child trapped in an adult body.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and the resulting behavior on that spectrum is vast.  Certainly in some cases the behavior/actions are premeditated and in others it is not, even within the same person.  Recognizing this isn't making excuses for a borderlines behavior nor is it accepting responsibility for them but rather recognizing the complexity of the disorder and that we are all different.  

Caley, even though you didn't write it to me, this really resonates with me. I'm going to print it and hang it somewhere I can see it.

I apologise for not replying yet but I will. He keeps sending me messages and I am not in a really good place right now... .I haven't responded though.  It's torture and it's my fault that I let it happen

Is he texting you? Can you switch your phone off so you don't have to see them? Is changing your number an option?

Don't blame yourself, you've done enough of that already. 

Yes he keeps texting to tell me how much he loves me and misses me. I blame my self for reading them and not blocking his number! I can't believe I still have so strong feelings for this guy! He sends a text and my attachment is back like nothing has ever happened!

Breaking up doesn't mean the feelings are gone. You're still attached. He occupies your mind, heart and soul. Like someone else here wrote "like a tenant who isn't paying rent".

Detaching takes time. Give yourself time. If you're not ready to block his number, than at least don't read his messages, or switch off your phone when you don't need it. Or, if this is an option for you, get a second SIM card. Give that new number to all the loving and important people so you can use it all day long, and put in your old SIM card only when you are strong enough to read the messages, or put it in 1 x per week, then hand it to a trusted friend and have her/him delete the messages so you don't have to look at them.

Try to stay away from reading them now, he's trying to weaken your strength and he's succeeding...

Hey Penelope35

Oh btw no one said it but I feel lonely sometimes too on my birthday, even with loads of company, so if you felt unusually lonely on that day I want to normalise it 


I agree with C.Stein. Your heart will align. But if you can help your heart, would you?

Does it feel better to let his texts come in?

Penelope you made the decision to NC him, and you know you've broken NC before, why are you making it harder for yourself?




Be kind to your heart and help it along. It can't carry you all the time... .

Your positive decisions and your own wellbeing is your choice Penelope, things like this are as important as the day you initiate NC, they just don't feel that way.

If you really want to, you can turn off your phone, and do something that requires you to get active or out of the house. Not on-call, not meeting friends to dwell on it, go for a swim or a walk and take your mind off it. Go do something you enjoy that will be effective for you. Think of the other things you have in your life. These things help your heart.

I hope you find rest.

Caley and CStein respect to you both.

No right or wrong here, I'm not questioning either of you, but I want to offer a positive perspective on what could be more constructive action.

Whether the BP knows he's hurting someone or doesn't, or has intention or doesn't shouldn't factor into decision making for the non.

What matters are the facts.

We know pwBP traits have a tendency to not have 'normal' thinking. So to attempt to understand what is often not understandable is folly. In fact it can be a destructive habit for a non.

E.g. The BP says "oh i love you, loved you like i never loved before, don't ever leave me please, let's spend forever together, i wish i met you years ago". Then dysregulates, goes out drinking, gets drunk, cheats on the non, then needs to get fetched because they're passed out on the street somewhere and vomiting on themselves. I don't care what the intention is. Assess the actions.

If one dwells in the "intention" of a non too far, then it promotes FOG. Just add abuse, sleep-deprivation and stir well. This played into me being stuck for months.

<EDIT> I don't want to come across as being unsympathetic to BP thinking CStein, please don't take me to be saying that.  I do agree with your last post on the potential variety of borderline thinking. I want to make it clear I'm not generalising BPs, but for romantic-SO nons like Penelope, handling the SO BP is what I think would be prudent to focus on. 

I don't think that and I agree.  In the end the actions are the only thing that matter, PD or not.  :)

Any one of us can speculate on what our respective borderline intentions and thoughts motivated their actions but it is still speculation or at best an educated guess based on your knowledge of that person.  I feel it is necessary for people to understand it simply isn't as cut and dried as they are all knowingly malicious in every hurtful action because in my case it wasn't true.  This isn't denial or making excuses it is objective fact. 

The more stories you read on the board the more you realize the nature of the disorder is so variable that blanket assumptions of behavior simply don't apply.  This isn't to say there aren't many similarities but just everyone be aware that borderlines are just as different as they are alike.

C.Stein ...

I'm sensing that you might have felt that I've been critical towards what you have said. And, if I have offended you I apologise. I do get it ... yes, there were times in my own experience that it seemed to me that my partner seemed totally unaware that her behaviour could be interpreted as hurtful. And, on occasions that I'd talk to her about it (and these things related to both our relationship and her relationships with her family, friends, work colleagues, etc.,) she would react, or it appeared to me that way, that she was surprised.

In cases were someone's behaviour is socially accepted in wider society as being boundary busting, in terms of what wider society judges to be acceptable/unacceptable behaviour, especially in intimate/romantic relationships, cheating (emotionally and sexually) is pretty academic. So, when I posted, I was referring to Penelope's situation. Yes, there are many shades of grey between black and white. And, I am very well schooled in what research has to say about people with BPD.

Within the field of Psychiatry and Psychology there is a feverish debate taking place about whether or not 'anti-social' behaviour is resultant of factors such as genetic disposition, environmental considerations and psychodynamics. Many believe these anti-social behaviours should be categorised and explained away as 'mental disorder' (biological disposition) whilst many other argue that it is more related to 'character disorder' (just plain misbehaviour unchecked and excused) than biological, neurological factors. Either way ... you will not get any psychiatrist or psychologist, that are worth their salt, to categorically state they know the answers to these 'behaviourall disorders'. What is very interesting is that when psychiatrists and psychologist approach, in therapy, the character disordered approach ... evidence shows a good deal of success. The approach is to not find excuses, or justification for anti-social behaviour outside of the person themselves, but to guide an individual to the realisation that they have no other option (if they want to enjoy healthy attachments) but to become responsible and accountable for the things they do. In essence ... not buying into bulls?t, minimisation, illogical justification and intellectual rationalisation is a very effective way to aid someone to make better decisions (for themselves ... which has a positive impact on their relationships).

There are currently two separately published 'go to's' dealing with mental disorder. Limiting this to the DSM volumes ... the increase in mental disorders from the DSM I ... .the DSM V has now grown to list, fabulously, circa 6000 mental disorders. I would also like to point out that the DSM 'bibles' are funded by the pharmaceutical industry which provides drugs to 'aid' such disorders. You can probably tell I don't have shares in them! My point is this ... a great deal of revenue is made in the promotion and belief that biological and neurological factors are what drives people to act like complete arses. When I was growing up (and you might relate to this too or something similar, I suspect you do) ... a thick ear from the local bobby ... and a further thick ear from my father for getting a thick ear from the local bobby ... did the trick (for those that are the other side of the pond ... a 'bobby' is a policeman).

I am very accepting C.Stein of your take (and the explanation of your experience) that pwBPD (and co-morbid other traits) do sometimes 'know' and at other times do not 'know'... if you will accept my take that sometimes things can be, most definitively, either black or white. A light bulb is either on or off ... and when there's a dimmer facility the light bulb is still on ... not off. Yes, there is mental illness and mental disorder ... at the same time, buying into "a child 'trapped' in an adults body is a green light to an emotional marauder. And, what you hear, as a result of this belief, is "you can't criticise or punish me for a disorder that is beyond my control". When people commit legal crimes they are punished with imprisonment. When people commit emotional crimes ... in todays world they're given excuses.

I can relate to Penelope's situation because it has startling resemblance and correlation to my own. Here's the thing ... a person that loves another person doesn't elicit attention, admiration and adoration (sexually) from other people because they understand, that if they did, it would hurt the person that they have declared that they love. A healthy, loving person would be abhorred by this. And, healthy loving people do not 'mess up' and say 'I love you and miss you' after transgressing a fundamental law without committing to huge reparation post humble, heart filled apology ... not 'It was because of you' but 'Ouch, I am ashamed of myself for the agony I have put you through and I will show you, through sustained action, that I am sorry ... and I will not do this to you ... ever again'.

This man is not loving Penelope ... he is abusing her. He doesn't love her ... he loves feeling powerful that he can do what he wants, when he wants, and she'll take him back ... pour her love into him regardless of how sh?tty he treats her. And, all the while she believes that her love will conquer (which doesn't interest him because he is fuelled only by positive or negative emotional response) ... she will live her life giving to a man who has no compassion for her whatsoever. "Hey, yeah ... OK ... I have been cheating! But, I cheated because you looked at me funny ... Oh, and by the way, have I explained how awful my ex-wife treated me? I've only ever wanted you!"

I'd gamble a mortgage his ex-wife and his supplementary supplies of adoration have heard the same words from his mouth.

PLEASE? A spade is a spade ... an arse is an arse ... and a douche bag is a douche bag. Penelope's chap is a ratbag ... and there's a chap out there, for her, that would chop her current bloke's head off for someone with her qualities.

Diagnosis doesn't matter in the long haul ... behaviour is significant because behaviour defines character.

Best wishes.  

I didn't feel that way Caley and most certainly not offended.  No worries.  Thank you for the consideration and I can understand why you might have thought that.  At times I can be rather blunt.  

I don't have time to give your post the attention it deserves right now but I will when I get a chance.

In the meantime, my views on accountability.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288926.0;all

I agree ...

I'd like to add too ... that whilst we might perceive their actions to be nonsensical ... to them ... their behaviour is completely logical when you understand what it is they are eliciting ... repeatedly, daily.

It's OK to be blunt ... I didn't take it as being blunt ... I took it as your direct experience and that you were expressing it.

One planet ... 7 billion worlds.

Penelope35: you may or may not have yet heard about a member named 2010 - her posts are legendary on these boards.  As I've been reading through all the responses to you, it made me think of a response that 2010 gave to a person who had to attend an event with her ex. While the circumstances are not the same as yours, the message can greatly benefit you.

______________________________________________________



Original post: If I were a lucky person he would not engage me in a conversation, but I am not usually so lucky.

2010:  What does luck have to do with intent? Nothing. What does luck have to do with willpower? Nothing. If it is your intention to engage him in conversation, luck (or bad luck as it appears) is only an excuse to continue dialogue with a person that hurt you.

Having to be in the same place with him is nothing less than having to go grocery shopping while you're on a diet. You don’t go into a supermarket and find yourself in the cookies and candy aisle because you're unlucky.  You might want to tempt fate and walk the aisle to prove something to yourself - but for the most part that's setting yourself up in order to fail - and it's your addictive brain talking *instead* of your rational reason. The addictive brain loves to blame bad decisions on "luck."

If you happen down that cookie/candy aisle without thought, and then pick up a box of Hostess Ding Dongs just to sniff them - you'll find out pretty quickly that one sniff leads to a touch, and a touch leads to a read of the label, then... .the Ding Dong gets thrown into the cart. What's it going to hurt? Certainly the Ding Dong wants this, right? The Ding Dong says, "Why hello, you've obviously been thinking about me. You obviously care. And I care too - I care that I have you right where I want you. What a coincidence you walked down this aisle. To see me? Now, touch me, tell me how you like my new bald headed snowball wrapper - ssssh - don't speak - take me home... ."

Addictive thought doesn't want you to think about the first defense (don’t go down the aisle) BUT if you find yourself in the aisle, do not loiter - do not make small talk. Get away - do your business shopping and LEAVE. Do not sniff the Ding Dong, do not touch the Ding Dong and do not read the label to figure out if Ding Dong's ingredients are healthy. They are not. He is a Ding Dong. A ding dong is only empty calories - and if you take a bite you will get a sugar high only to crash and burn later with nothing to show for it.

Put the Ding Dong down.

______________________________________________________

His texts to you are the Ding Dong. If you continue to read them, you will eventually cave - it's just a matter of time.

Put the Ding Dong down.

:) roaring with laughter  :)

My ex is a Ding Dong (not that I've ever seen one in real life as they are not sold over here but I get what it is  *)).

I can just picture it... Me bumping into him near the office, him with a sour face and me spotting him and starting to laugh because I think "put down the Ding Dong". I would be in so much trouble for laughing at him in his face :)

Penelope, Jhkbuzz, & Group,

Jhk, Thank you for the walk down memory lane ... .and for the very needed laugh that made me snort my beverage ... .LMBO     For WoundedBibi ... .here is the description of the Ding Dong and a link to what it looks like. They are great to have in the summer when they're frozen ... .but it's been a couple of decades plus since I've done that.  As 2010 points out ... .they are certainly NOT healthy ... .like that of a s/o swBPD ... .I stop sniffing the Ding Dong ... .I DO NOT touch the Ding Dong ... .I have put the Ding Dong down ... .I miss the Ding Dong ... .that moment on the lips ... .the taste ... .that brief moment in time when I took that first bite ... .then what came after was nothing but work ... .running and running to get rid of the Ding Dong ... .a moment on the lips ... .PUT THE DAMN DING DONG DOWN !   

DING DONGS ® THE KING OF CAKES IS AT YOUR DOOR.

You know you love Ding Dongs if the sound of the doorbell makes you drool. And if that’s the case, you’re not alone. Because the Ding Dong is the king of all cakes. And in this majestic land of snacking, the Ding Dong reigns supreme over many loyal subjects

www.hostesscakes.com/products

@Caley, I admire & commend you on your straight forward take on things BPD ... .it's called tough love where I come from. Sometimes you need it ... .you need that smack in the face to wake the hell up from the nightmare you're in ... .you need to swallow the medicine no matter who nasty it taste ... .

@C.Stein, I admire your perception on things BPD ... .although not as "blunt" as Caley you too have a straight forward approach to the BPD world ... .

No two people are the same in a world of 8 Billion people ... .and although those with BPD exhibit similar behavior ... .they are still individuals and you can not predict the actions of one BPD based on the actions of another BPD ... .there were moments that I believe my exBPDgf didn't know or comprehend her bad behavior ... .then there were moments where she was quite lucid and I paid attention to those moments to know that she knew she was "broken" ... .the things she said & some of her actions gave me clues to her future behavior ... .her therapist gave me clues to her behavior ... .as hard as I fell for her ... .and wanted more then anything for it to work ... .the plain, simple and BRUTAL truth is ... .it was never going to work out ... .the further I dove into the world of BPD ... .the more I learned I had to save myself ... .I had to learn of my own behavior of a codependent, the NON ... .and as painful as it was ... .it was needed to save myself ... .I still have my moments of weakness like anyone ... .but I remind myself of the brutal truth of the situations and that moment passes ... .

Just a month ago today ... .she called my phone and let it ring once at 7am to let me know she was thinking of me ... .on her way to work ... .then again she called me the same day at 4 pm to ring just once, register on my phone to let me know she was thinking of me ... .on her way home from work ... .what did I do?  I did NOT return her call ... .I thought about a brief pleasant moment ... .then I thought ... .PUT DOWN THE DAMN DING DONG!     LMAO

anyone else care to put their two cents in as to why she called, let it ring once, just to register her call ... .all ideas are welcome ... .I look at it as an exercise of those of us "recovering from a BPD relationship" to learn from ... .to exchange ideas ... .to help each other explore new facets of our thought processing ... .

this chain has been a very interesting and educational ... .thank you all for your thoughts and ideas

J

Thoughts:

- thanks... now I want a Ding Dong  :)

- being with a pwBPD is like the gin & tonic effect; when you go to the pub the first sip of the first G&T is the best. I enjoy the rest of the glass. I can have another one. But all of it is slightly disappointing; none of it tastes like that first sip. Haven't had one for months (painkillers so no booze) but still remember the G&T effect

- the calls... Yes, "thinking of you" would be an option. If she was your gf I would find it endearing; "Just letting you know I'm thinking of you".

In this situation it feels more like "remember me? Why don't you give me call... " disguised as "thinking of you". Especially because you didn't respond to the first call and a second followed. If you succumb and she's not in the right mindset she can claim to have dialed your number by accident; it only rang once, no message left. If you succumb and she is in the right mindset she can try to recycle you.

My ex kept making remarks when we were supposed to be friends (a short period, torpedoed by me). "I think I need a nice blonde" and then walk away to get another drink.

Completely out of the blue: "I would like to buy you a bikini. Yeah... I would like to see you in that... "

They were attempts to reel me back in. But it would not have surprised me he would have rejected me if I had responded. Just to see if he still had a hold on me. If he could play with me, make my emotions flare up again.

I can accept and agree sometimes things are simply black or white however in the case of personalities I don't believe this is the case.  To extend your light bulb analogy lets look at good vs. evil within a person.  I don't feel it could be said that any one person is all good or all evil with nothing in-between.  We are in essence gray, some good and some evil exists within all of us.  However isn't that what some do here, paint their ex's all evil?

I understand the hurt and pain that is caused by these relationships and sometimes it might be easier to see our ex's as all evil in order to deal with that pain.  Yet when we are honest with ourselves we did get involved with these people because there is good within them.  I honestly don't see how it can be constructive to view any individual as all black or all white, all evil or all good, always malicious in intent vs not.  Isn't that type of thinking very "BPD" like in itself?

In Penelope's case her ex is probably emotionally distraught and hurting, reaching out with declarations of love.  While this could certainly be seen as extraordinarily selfish given the circumstances it doesn't necessarily follow that it is being done to intentionally hurt or manipulate her.  This is also not a behavior unique to pwBPD as I am certain many of us "nons" have done the same reaching out.   I don't know if Penelope has spelled it out to him (that continued contact is hurting her), but if she hasn't then maybe she should?

With respect to the child trapped inside an adult body I think you misunderstood what I was saying.  No one deserves a free pass for wrong or hurtful behavior, be they child or adult.  Seeing a borderline as a child inside an adults body, emotionally speaking, is a means to understand them and their behavior.  It should never be construed as meaning they should not be held responsible/accountable for their actions.  If you don't mind me asking, why do you feel it means a free pass? 


I agree, within the framework of a monogamous relationship.  I am relatively certain my ex replaced me, at least emotionally, months before I was thrown away.  While I might be able to forgive her I can never forget or excuse this behavior.  In my mind a line was crossed that can never be uncrossed.  It has also been the most difficult thing I have had to come to terms with post trash bin.  


I think we all know that generally speaking borderlines are incapable of this for the most part.   I completely understand the feelings of betrayal, the inaction by our SO to repair the damage done and to take the necessarily steps to avoid doing it again.  My ex destroyed me and our relationship because of her inability to do this.  Am I angry at her for this?  :)amn straight I am!  That said when attempting to look at it through the eyes of a borderline I can somewhat understand why she couldn't.  To be clear that does not mean I am making excuses or overlooking her behavior and inability to accept responsibility for her actions, it is simply an attempt to understand why it might have happened.


I don't believe anyone here has disputed this.  So what can we do to help Penelope detach and move on in a constructive and healthy manner?  

You make some valid points C.Stein.

I would agree, with you, that Penelope's chap is experiencing some hurt ... but not for the reasons you might think ... because you do not think like him. NC will be experienced as a narcissistic injury. He isn't hurting and emotionally sad because he's suddenly had an 'aha' moment and realised he might just be losing the best woman he's ever met ... he's hurting because he has lost control ... control that Penelope has seized back by adopting NC. He'll do practically anything (even become violent) to shatter her attempts to remove him from her life where he can no longer continue to emotionally abuse her. He cannot allow this to happen. He cannot allow a person he considers to be inferior to him, to 'get rid' of him.

I certainly wouldn't recommend that Penelope explain that his texts are hurting her ... this will only fuel further and increasing attempts to get her to meet with him face to face, where he can better manipulate her. In cases where someone displays clear narcissistic character traits ... this is the last thing one should do. Telling him this sends him the message that she still cares about him deeply (after all that he has already done). Not good. And, he'll be encouraged to ramp up his efforts to keep trying to contact her. By text, email, telephone calling, social media ... and then if all that fails ... he'll turn up at her work or worse, turn up on her doorstep, penitent and on bended knee, begging for 'just one more chance'!

Depending on whether he has set up a new primary source, prior to P adopting NC ... and whether he is high or low functioning ... his campaign to defeat her attempt will either be sustained energetically for a few months or fade away within weeks.

If she lets him back in she knows what will happen ... there'll be a brief respite where he'll treat her like a queen again (a return to the golden period of the relationship). Then he'll devalue her, triangulate, threat of loss and abandonment ... and then he'll discard her, again, only to charm her back once more to repeat the cycle.

Penelope's job is to weather the storm, remain firm and adamant that she needs to rid herself of this attachment ... and maintain that resolve until he finally does leave her alone ... his attempts to make contact will not go away entirely but they will fade. He may even wait a year or two ... then contact to say he's done a lot of work on himself and he's so very sorry he did those awful things ... the next thing is he's back in her life. A successful Follow Up Vacuum.

He needs to abuse. Positively charged emotion (fuel) such as her adoration for him is sweet ... but negatively charged emotion is sweeter. It makes him feel good to know that he is able to inflict atrocities and remain so magnificent (in her eyes) to be allowed back to carry on with his agenda. It makes him feel strong. Why does he need to behave this way? Because deep within himself he knows that he's weak ... and he does these things to keep that little, pathetic, weak creature from view.

It is very likely he has two or three other women that he is cycling through the stages of idealisation, devaluation and discarding manoeuvres. So, if he isn't abusing Penelope ... you can put a few dollars on the bet that he'll be abusing some other woman. He will do this repeatedly for the rest of his life unless he meets someone who is better at his vile games than he is, or, until his body and looks finally fail him. This isn't likely though because they're good at spotting their own kind and know that there's no fruit to be gained with their interactions.

I feel it is a big, big error to label him BPD ... he'll not mind because then he has another weapon in his toolkit called 'See! I told you it wasn't my fault. It's my genes fault!'

Pen ... keep away from his genes and his jeans, or Levi's or Wranglers ... !

NC Pen ... NC, Nada, zippo, zero ...

Hi everyone

First I want to say thank you because your responses and discussion here have been of a great help to me.

It is very clear to all of us by now that not all people with BPD or BP traits are or act the same and that although there are so many similarities among the relationships described here, each of them is different too and experienced very uniquely by each one of us. I will try to explain exactly what my understanding is on whether or not the people with BPD in our lives (and specifically my ex) were intentionally hurting us. English is not my first language so I hope I can get through to you exactly what I mean.

As I said before, I don't consider my ex to have any cognitive impairment nor do I consider any of your exs as being cognitively challenged. On the contrary most of them sound like very intelligent people. They know right from wrong and of course they know that lying and deceiving are bad and hurtful for the person on the opposite end. On this board I have seen people talking about them as if they are pure evil and others handling them as innocent babies and believing that they should spend their whole lives miserable so that they can save them I went through that phase too. However, my understanding now by reading your all's stories, learning about BPD and having this personal experience is that the people don't start a relationship with the intention to hurt anyone, and when they do they always have an excuse for it, which THEY BELIEVE, which is the sad part. If I hadn't been on this board, I would probably consider my ex as a ... .-bunch of curse words-... .deceitful, emotionless, meanest, worst man on earth. And I would definetely be able to get over him more easily. But being on this site I think gave me the BPD perspective and explanations (not excuses) as to why he behaved the way he did.

For example, this man is married with kids, which I found out after the relationship was over for good. He says he is separated and only stays at his family house once or twice a week. However, all evidence show that he is there everyday, I don't and will never know the kind of relationship he has with his wife but he says they have not been a couple for years. His reasoning behind hiding this information was that in the beginning he believed I would back up if he had told me and as the relationship progressed he couldn't find the courage to tell me because he believed I would abandon him. My understanding is this: HE KNEW he was hurting me by not telling me me and of course HE KNEW  that it is not ok to hide this kind of information with somebody who you see is investing in you and your relationship with them. His emotional maturity or I should better say immaturity and his greatest fear of being abandoned didn't let him act on those facts. If his story of being separated from his wife is true, or even if they are not separated but they are rather in a dead marriage, I would expect from a 40 year old man who claims he loves me to sit down with me and explain the situation, tell me his reasons of why he is still living with his wife and give me the opportunity to decide for my self  if I wanted to get involved in this or not. But he didn't because his purpose was to not be abandoned, whatever the prize for that. This doen't make him any less selfish of course. It was selfish and totally disregarding of me but he really believed that he had no other option if he didn't want to loose me. He wasn't just playing and thought oh well this is unecessary for her to know cause I will just dump her later on. I never got the impression that he was just a married man looking to fool around with somebody and it happened to be me. I hope you understand what I mean. The same goes with silent treatments, the fact that he is now sending me messages while I asked him not to and everything. Of course he knew he was hurting me during those. But it is his immature way to control me, it wasn' t to torture me for the sake of torture.

Some times he would cry when I would confront him about stuff during the relationship and he would say that he was not worthy of me, that he hated himself for making me sad and unhappy and that he wished I found the courage to end the relationship before I got more hurt because he couldn't find the strength to end it. He was devastated too but still couldn't act on it and couldn't do anything to reverse the trap that he got himself and me in. I hope you can understand that I am not excusing him for any of these. I am just explaining what I came to realise about what was going on.

I am afraid I picked up the ding dong though and I feel bad for saying this after all this discussion. I AM NOT PLANNING to go back with him though and I will not.The discussion here has helped me so much in not fooling my self again that I can have something more or something better with this man. I just couldn't stop my self after all those messages. I feel like I NEED to know the whole truth about his family situation, whatever that is so that I know what I need to process. I need to know if he is in a regular marriage because that would mean a bigger deceit towards me. Sorry if I have dissapointed you all

*mod*

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