BPDFamily.com

Some of you will know that my wife and I split up in July after she had a major BPD episode. I spent 6 months trying to help her get better and to get us back on track. She moved back in with me and my dd at the end of January. Now I'm thinking that I wish I had moved on back in July!

I feel I am getting nothing from this marriage.  It doesn't even feel like marriage anymore. Neither of us wear our rings and we aren't intimate.

I've written a letter to her on my phone and can't decide whether to send it to her. I don't want to break us apart if there is any hope for improving things but right now it doesn't feel much like there is any hope... .I also don't want to give it to her when she is here because I don't want to face her reaction. Sounds cowardly but she can be really aggressive and I'm not in the right frame of mind to take the abuse which will follow.

We have marriage counselling but she puts on such a show of being a good wife at our sessions that the counsellor just thinks it's me with the problem.

Anyway here is what I've written... .

"All you care about is how you feel. You don't listen cus all you do is sit there being defensive and thinking about what you want to say. So there is no point trying to talk to you. I hate it when you say "so what's your problem then" as the opening line to a supposed conversation. Then when I do try to talk to you you shut me down with denying everything and constantly telling me I'm wrong. Then when I point out that it isn't helpful you say you'll say nothing instead. Then when I get fed up and walk away you taunt me and have a go at me for that as well.  You don't try any different way to communicate and I'm fed up of waiting for it.

You remember conversations as it suits you. You constantly blame and take no responsibility. Eg saying I was in a foul mood at you when you came home because of DD. That's a contradiction and you didn't bother to find out what was wrong or what you could do to help.  But according to you I should just be able to tell you! Yet actually I told you I was a bit fed up of DD and thought we should go out. You TOLD me we would go to the boating lake. I said it would be really busy and one of the car parks was closed.  Rather than listening to me and understanding what I'm telling you you just get all defensive and condescending saying "there are TWO car parks" with an attitude.

Even when you can see I am upset you talk at me with no consideration for my feelings. I can't imagine ever treating you the way you treat me when I'm upset. Even when I'm lying in bed and have been crying because of you you still don't make an effort. It verges on abusive because you don't stop and think at all about being kind. All you care about is your feelings.

I have never met such an emotionally selfish person. You are acting like a teenager again. I don't even look forwards to seeing you or spending time with you. I feel like we are housemates. We don't even cuddle anymore. There's no spark. I feel alone even with you here so I feel like I might as well be alone. I don't trust you either.

Then there's DD and I feel I need to protect her from you. You are disrespectful to her telling her to shut up and belittling her a lot. Then when I am down you say negative and mocking things about me to her.

DD asked me to play a game and I said to go and ask you since you had done absolutely nothing with her. She didn't want to but when she eventually did all you could do was be childish and ask her why you should bother when she hadn't listened to you or done what you wanted. You went on about all these things you had asked her to do yet I only heard u ask once before you decided to go out for a fag. Then you had a go at me then faffed around for two hours doing nothing!

She doesn't turn to you for anything. She gets upset if I'm not there with her and when she knows she's spending time with you.

I feel angry because you never change and never learn. You make promises you never keep. I wish I had let you go in July because I have put so much of myself into getting you back but it is clear I will never get the same from you.

When I feel positive it's because I have a distraction from reality. Yet when we are together I feel miserable. We have nothing to talk about, nothing in common. The novelty has worn off I think and I can't see anything positive about our relationship. It all feels one sided and I'm being taken for granted. As soon as I need anything from you you aren't emotionally available and not willing to be there. You say you are but you aren't. I've told you already how I feel about us. You said you wanted to fight for us and that you didn't want to lose me yet all I get is you not wanting to change and Aggression which pushes me further away. And I know now that you will never change. You don't want to or aren't able to.

So I feel like this is goodbye again. Our relationship has run its course. We tried to patch things up but maybe in reality we aren't compatible and too much has happened."

Is she still having major BPD episodes?

What I am reading her is a lot of pent of frustration about the marriage and the relationship, which in itself is fine.

Learning to resolve these issues (and it may take a lot of time) is important in making the marriage work.

It is not uncommon any in relationship/marriage to be lulls of intimacy. Considering where it sounds like the two of you are; it is not surprising this is happening.

So this letter, is this something you have scare with the marriage counselor?

Do you guys have assignments you work on? I have found a good counselor talks about each other strengths as well as your weaknesses.

You need to make sure you both are focusing on the good too. If not you should bring it up with your MC. Perhaps another MC?

It's tough when it seems like the other person doesn't listen.

That they can't change their communication style.

And life is you can't modify the other person, you can just change how you communicate.

The 'too much has happened' is a good thing, it can build an incredible foundation for a stronger future. The the foundation is still fresh, you have to wait to build upon it. 

Don't worry about being the 'bad guy' to the MC. Be yourself and the truth has a way of working itself out.

Hopefully you are going to your T, which could offset some of these issues.  Wish you the best of luck!

Thanks. She's been on medication and has been more stable since Xmas but recently I've noticed some old habits and BPD traits creeping back in.

I only wrote the letter today after three months of everything feeling very frustrating. I don't know if I want to share it in counselling. I feel we are last chance saloon.

Our counsellor focuses a lot on the good things but I feel that my concerns aren't being dealt with. I've said many many times that my wife needs to learn communication skills. All I get in response is that my wife isn't in a good place yet. But I feel that the longer it is left the less chance there is of our relationship surviving. I'm really not happy at the moment and I don't want to be around her most of the time.

I don't see how anything positive can come of our relationship. How can it when she doesn't want to or can't learn?

Oh and the mean part of me wants to send her the message when she's out of the house at her darts match this evening. And that's because I want her to feel as hurt and upset as I do. And because she won't be here. I feel like a really unpleasant side of me is coming out at the moment because I feel resentful towards her.

You sound very angry. And hurt. But I can't see what good will come of this letter. You are working in therepy on the relationship - and you've said it doesn't feel like it's going well. But i think you need to stay the course. The letter will cause a huge reaction, and nothing positive. Sorry.

I am very angry. I haven't given her the letter because what is the point? It won't change anything.

The letter does have the ability to change something. Not in her but in you. Writing can be both therapeutic and good for bringing clarity to your thoughts. It is a good way to release frustrations.

Giving her this letter will do nothing but harm to your relationship, which by the sounds of it is already near breaking point again. I have been contemplating a similar issue myself and have since decided against it.

As a general rule; Never write something in frustration and give it to someone else without first taking a pause, and waiting several days to a week. Then reread what you wrote later after you have calmed down,and consider then if sending it would have any positive value.

I'll agree with seeks--writing the letter can help you a lot... .but sending the letter to her won't help anything.


If the MC is good, you might be able to bring some parts of this up in MC.

My recommendation would be to see if you can schedule an individual session with the MC, without your wife present, and share some of this with the MC, along with how frustrated you are that the problem visible in MC appears to be all with you, and you are at the breaking point.

Sadly, even if the MC does come to believe you, the chances of success through that route are limited. Many members have found that if an MC challenges the pwBPD at all, the MC is painted black, and there are no more sessions... .the only ongoing MC is the kind where the MC is convinced to blame the non- for everything.

Yep - happenned to me. My BPDw pressured forever to get marriage counselling. When we did (with a BPD expert!) she quit after 6 sessions because "it sounds like the MC is telling me that you might not change, and that I need to accept you the way you are"

We have MC and I have my own sessions with the same therapist.

Well I haven't given her the letter but I didn't need to because a small incident happened yesterday which I'm hoping got my wife thinking about how she communicates with both me and our DD.

My 6 year old daughter complained to my wife that I had used one of her birthday cards to draw on. My wife responded "oh well it's not your birthday anymore anyway". Now, our DD is used to be using LEAPS style of communication whenever possible. My wife however seems to go around only thinking about her own feelings. She doesn't ever hear what we are saying.

So then my daughter looked sad and retold the story to me. She said she was upset that her other mum hadnt listened and told her it wasnt important.  I told DD that it was important that she told her other mum that she had made DD feel that way but she said she didn't want to talk about it with her (DD has learned not to criticise her other mum for fear of other mum kicking off).

Anyway, my wife had overheard the conversation and eventually coaxed our DD into talking. Both myself and DD explained the upset and why it had happened. I said that she needs to think before opening her mouth and that whilst some things may not be important to her they may be important to others.

She seemed to take it on board yet she doesn't seem to have noticed how strained our relationship is and hasn't remotely bothered to try to talk to me.

First off, congratulations on doing an excellent job of validating DD's feelings after the birthday card encounter.

|iiii Your wife overheard and was confronted with how her behavior is making DD feel, and is working on it.

Perhaps not as well or as much or with as much self-awareness as you might hope... .but this is clearly a first step and a start.


My guess is not that she doesn't notice the strain... .but that she lacks good tools to deal with the strain, or is creating the strain as part of her (normal) poor emotional coping tools.

Are you expecting her to learn to treat you differently as a result of this awareness of and (hopefully) changes in how she treats DD?

I have asked her repeatedly to learn communication and particularly listening skills. Trouble is, she is defensive in every conversation even when it's not about her. She makes promises and never keeps them which I know is typical BPD.

She's also developed a new trait which I have read is a BPD thing but I've never seen it from her before... .thinking she has had conversations with me but actually she's only had those conversations in her own head. I think everyone does that to some extent and particularly when under stress but lately it's as if she is talking to herself in her head a LOT. I'm a bit concerned by it as it's something new.

You are probably right. She is probably avoiding talking about the strain rather than not noticing.

I guess I'm at the point again where I'm deciding how much "BPD stuff" I am willing to allow for and what the options are if I feel it's all too much.

If you can identify specific behavior that you have had up to your limit, please post about that--In many cases, there are relatively easy and practical solutions, and we're here to help you find them.

I'm a big fan of trying to solve the small problem ("She is talking to me disrespectfully" instead of the big problem. ("I can't take the disrespect in this marriage"

The smaller steps are much more achievable... .and enough of them really add up to improve the bigger picture too... .Ultimately you may end up leaving... .but if you know you did all you could to make things better first, you will find more peace with your choice... .and also discover that you've learned a lot about yourself along the way.

At the moment it's her shouting at me in the mornings and her not being able to listen to me when I am upset and in need of support.

I also don't accept the way she brushes off our daughter and speaks disrespectfully to her.

This is a boundary you can choose to enforce. Start by believing this statement:

"I will not be shouted at" (I'm going to generalize, as it is a problem any time of day)

If she starts shouting, you can do a couple things:

1. You can say "I will not be spoken to this way." (Note that I didn't mention shouting specifically. I've heard people screaming "I'm not raising my voice". The important part is that you aren't going to put up with it... .not getting into a debate about what she is doing or why it is wrong)

2. If she doesn't stop immediately, you can leave the room. [Or hang up if on the phone]

3. If she follows you to another room, you can leave the house.

Assuming you are indeed consistent with these things, you will find yourself not being shouted at fairly quickly... .and if it starts, you end it immediately. (At least the shouting at YOU part. ... .she can keep shouting, but you are now out of earshot)


I think what you said here is probably true. She is not able to do this. She lacks the emotional maturity to do this for you. As they say, trying to teach a dog to quack just gets the dog upset.

Your best bet here is to accept that she has very limited capacity for this, if any... .and your best bet is to find support from other people who are capable of giving you support.


Perhaps somebody who is co-parenting with a pwBPD can help on this one. (I've got no children)

Thanks for the advice. I've tried the walking away when she has shouted. Trouble is, I don't feel I want to be around her much because I'm on egg shells trying not to say anything which could cause a row. I'm afraid of the aggression from her as it makes me feel really anxious.

A couple points... .First, if you don't feel like being around her much, can you honor that? As in can you structure your life so you spend less time around her?

Second, you mention fear of saying anything that could make her blow up... .if you are saying invalidating things, and either don't realize it or haven't been able to break the habit, work on that. We've got a lesson for this... .

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)  (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating;all)

The other side is that even if you aren't invalidating her, she's going to blow up some of the time, no matter what you do... .and your being fearful and walking on eggshells isn't healthy for you. Sometimes you have to let the eggshells crunch and break.

Much of that is dealing with your own fear and anxiety.

What also helps is to have good tools and know that you can protect yourself if she does go off on you.

It's difficult not to be around her as I worry about her and she seems to expect me to mother her (although when I point out that I feel she is expecting a lot of me and I feel I am parenting her then she gets annoyed).  We also have a daughter who needs us to spend time as a family.  I enjoy her company but only on a superficial level now.

Yesterday I told her how I feel.  She couldn't process it so decided to move the conversation onto something else.  We went out for a couple of hours together to get out of the house.  While we were out she was doing all she could to get my attention (flirting, banter etc).  She didn't seem to get that I wasn't interested.  When we came home she went to bed and that was the end of the evening. 

I've done a lot of reading on validation and communication techniques.  I'm sick of putting in the hard work and changing the way I act and react when I get nothing back.  It doesn't feel that our relationship is improving because of it. 

I've done all the things you say about being assertive and leaving if she doesn't calm down.  However, she is doing this behaviour in front of our daughter and upsetting both of us before school and work. 

The thing is, she has changed a lot since I met her 6 years ago and now I just don't know if I love her romantically anymore.  People keep telling me to work at it when we are together and when I'm putting in lots of effort but when she is horrible to me and walks out for the umpteenth time those same people tell me to walk away.  It's so confusing!

I put that same effort into validation, boundaries, and other tools in my marriage, and it is now very over (currently negotiating on division of assets before divorce paperwork, separated for 18 months). I've got no regrets, though.

The tools I learned make me a better person, and are helping me relate to other people (whether they are mentally ill or not!) So I'm very glad for all I learned, and would be whether they had any benefit with my wife or not.




Bad behavior in front of your daughter is a lot trickier (and I'm not a parent, so I feel a bit less qualified to advise there)


First off, advice from people who don't understand the sort of mental illness your wife has will not take it into account well at all. Unless you are incredibly lucky, your real-world friends who are giving you advice don't have a clue about how to deal gracefully with BPD behavior like people here on this board do... .If you are getting advice that doesn't seem to be helping from friends, you might want to back away from those topics with those people.

Second, I've seen quite a few members here who decided that they weren't willing to either risk their children being abused by the partner... .or risk their children growing up seeing them be abused by their partner, and were able to stand up and take action for their children that they weren't able to take for themselves, at least at first.

So do think about what your daughter is seeing, and how willing you are to risk her growing up thinking that this kind of relationship is "normal", and finding a partner who treats her like your wife is treating you to be in a relationship with.

 Whatever you do, the choices in front of you are tough.

Thanks. We managed to have a talk this evening. She said she can see how upset I am but that she doesn't really understand it. She admitted she doesn't really understand emotions at all. I tried to help her to empathise by comparing my situation with her to how she was treated by her parents. That seemed to help and she said that made her feel really sad.

She has promised to go to her own therapy but that she doesn't believe in herself. She said she takes everuthing i say as a criticism. So I said that no she won't believe in herself until she has been to therapy for a while and when she can see the results of what she learns ie us not arguing so much and our daughter wanting to turn to her for help. I also said that I know everything I say comes across to her as a criticism and that probably doesn't help with her self belief but I also need to be able to vent and that sometimes I need to say things she might not want to hear but that marriage therapy will also help with that.

Wow. Kinda heartbreaking how lost and hurt she has to be, isn't it.

This statement represents a very good area for you to work on:


Part of it is that she is that critical of herself, so every word she hears, she tries to do all she can to make it fit that view and justify how she's feeling. There really isn't much you can do about this part.

What you can do is work on things you do or say which are invalidating, even though you do not intend to be critical, or even realize you are doing it.

One very natural time to do this is when you are being criticized or falsely accused yourself. We've got an acronym here on what NOT to do at that time. Don't JADE. Don't Justify, Argue, Defend (yourself), or Explain. Any or all of these things are very natural... .and they all make things worse, instead of better, as you probably can look back and see. What happens when you do any of these things is you are invalidating your partner--She believes that something is your fault, and really feels that way. Anything to convince her that this isn't true is taken by her as convincing her that her feelings are WRONG, and that causes her to escalate farther... .and it just gets worse from there.

Have you read any of the Lessons here? This one I found on the "Improving a relationship... ." board, and it has a lot more detail on how:

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating;all)

It takes a little while... .but once you notice all the little invalidating things you say and do, you will find that it isn't too hard to stop most of them... .and it will go a long way toward reducing conflict.

Wundress: I know everyone here is trying to help you - and it's true that not JADEing and learning to validate will reduce the conflict.

But I also think I've been in your situation, and I suspect that even if you manage to reduce the conflict, there will still be something missing, won't there? That "other half". I've spent the last few years feeling like you - trying to make things better, but realising that I'm trying to love a black hole. The woman I married isn't there any more. And it hurts to be around her. Are you in mutually supportive marriage, or a one-sided care arrangement?

I feel your hurt, your emptiness and frustration.

The feelings come and go. But yes, there are big chunks of time where I feel I am missing a "partner". I spend a lot of time feeling like a parent to my wife and not feeling like we are equals.

She has asked for me to explain in MC what I need from her and to try to understand me and to understand feelings.

I feel bad thinking that she isn't the person I met anymore. I know that much of what I fell in love with was a BPD facade and I don't want her to have to have a facade.

I'm the one who gets to see all facets of her personality which she doesn't show to anyone else. For that I feel lucky but it also means that I get to deal with the negative sides and people don't understand because they don't see that side of her. Luckily my sister has seen some of it for herself and has done some reading on BPD as well to try to understand. But in reality how much are partners supposed to put up with?

As a bit of background, when I met my wife she was very girly, had long hair, wore short dresses, constantly trying to impress and was very close with her family. Soon after meeting I realised how much of that was fake. Underneath she detested being a girl. She harboured a great deal of resentment towards her mother. She felt insecure and angry. She showed a lot of risky behaviour. She had zero empathy. She told me a lot of scary stuff about her past including being abused, being heavily addicted to weed from age 11, having an alcoholic mother, being raped, being beaten by her mother's ex boyfriend, and in turn she became abusive to other people.

But for the most part she was always lovely to me. Very quickly she started to change her image. She is often mistaken for a man but she says she doesn't want to be a man. However, I think the way she feels inside (vulnerable etc) conflicts with how she outwardly portrays herself and I think that irritates her.

There is an awful lot going on for her as well as the BPD. She's afraid to address those things in counselling so she avoids the issues and transfers her negative feelings onto those around her.

There are times when she is wonderful. I try to hold onto those times and any small kindnesses but it is difficult when a lot of the time she is not nice to be around.

I guess I will just have to see if she follows through on her promise to go to counselling.  An added complication at the moment is that I am on the verge of taking my employer to tribunal and potentially could end up unemployed so that is an added stress.