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How do I learn to detach or accept? I've been posting all over the place. I don't know if I'm trying recover from the wounds of a failed relationship or trying to make it work. I don't even know what I'm trying to make work. I just feel numb -- again.

To make a long story short, this has been going on for nearly a year. My pwBPD is long distance. We are both married but separated. He says he loves me but doesn't come visit (I visit him). I saw him three weeks ago. Two weeks ago, he told me he was thinking about coming to see me the following Saturday. Never heard from him and didn't call. A couple of days ago, we talked. He told me he had just been fired from his job for cause (lying, among other things). He told me that he loved me, regretted not coming to see me and said he would come next month. He sounded very loving and grateful.

Today, I find out from a mutual friend that he actual had been in town last Saturday -- five days before we talked. On one hand, he was by himself (the last time this happened he was with a date). On the other, he did not tell me he was in town and attended an event that I could have been at. To make it worse, this weekend he is back home for Easter with his wife and father.

Now, I could ask how someone could say he loves you and do this. And you all will say "Because he has BPD."

So, I must detach, end it or accept. How? My feelings are so strong they swamp everything else. He also has just lost his job and along with it, likely his career aspirations. He is not probably in the mindset for a talk about this.

One more thing... .If someone else described this situation to me, I would say, well, he probably isn't all that into you. However when I do see him or talk to him on the phone, for the most part, he is tender and loving and plans a future with me (I have learned not to be sucked into this last bit). People who aren't that into you don't tell you that they love you, etc. I don't get what is going on and can't decide what to do and find too many excuses for his actions.

Probably the best you can do is try to detach. Not because you don't care, but because it helps clear your head and stabilize your own life. Step back a bit, do a lot of self care, give him some space and let the dust settle from his job loss.

Hello Narkiss, sorry to hear of your suffering. You learn to accept by taking off your rose coloured glasses and viewing what the "relationship" actually IS and not just what you want it to be. Practice radical acceptance. This is hard stuff, no doubt about that... .and you mightn't like what you see at first. Push through it. Keep going.

You learn to detach by actually focusing on what it most important in your life. YOU. Make your life better by really connecting with yourself and realising what is good about you. Good FOR you. Be true to yourself. Let go of bad habits. Try not to repeat ild patterns of being. Validate yourself instead of relying on other people. That is the easy way but not when you attach yourself to someone who is disordered. Read affirmations. Each day. Replace negative thoughts with positive ones. Be who you really are. Be the best you that you can be.  :)

If you put these things into practice, your LDR with a disordered man will possibly resolve itself. Even if it doesn't you will be in a much better place... .and I believe you won't be suffering like you are right now. In any event you will be in a better position to make good (read: the right) choices for yourself.  :)

Him not making the effort is very disappointing. The distance between yourselves is exactly the same both ways.  :)

If he has lost his job due to misconduct that is pretty serious... .and lying?... .UGH!... .that is the worst.   Know this much. Liars aren't "selective"... .they don't choose who they lie to. They just are. I have a suspicion there is much more to his story, that possibly he is getting his needs met elsewhere... .that you are only an option. I think it was Maya Angelou that said don't make people your priority if they treat you like an option.

He "sounded" very loving and grateful?... .that sounds like your gut already knows you are being manipulated. Tell your gut to talk to your head.    :)ont worry about your heart right now. It won't listen.

The next paragraph you wrote is just confirmation of this. Five days after you talk he is near you... .and he didn't know this, right?... .and he didn't contact you once he "found" himself in your town?

And the last time he was with a "date?... .but you two are in a relationship, right?... .positively charming.  

He doesn't have a date this time because he is spending time with his wife!... .this stinks and you and I both know it. I won't get into the marriage this but you are BOTH married so he is well within his right to behave in this way. The real question is... .how do you feel about it?


Oooh no no no... .Narkiss. Don't presume what the posters on this board will say, and I will only speak for myself when I answer your question.

He behaves in unloving and uncaring ways and tells you lies because that is who he is. BPD OR NOT! He is a liar and yet you believe him when he tells you he "Loves" you.

Love is NOT a word honey.

You are correct in deducing you have 3 choices... .although detaching and acceptance are really one choice. How? I have given you some pointers at the beginning of my reply, and no doubt other posters are about to chime in with other practical suggestions and advice.

He is probably not in the mindset to talk? I would drop your presumptions before they get you into more trouble. But on this you might just be right. He is not seeking you like you are seeking him, is he?... .

You wrote this while I was responding to your original post.

"if someone else described this situation to me" IS practicing detachment. Looking at things from another perspective and putting things right (i.e. reality) in your own head.

He "probably isn't all that into you" is a painful truth. Your painful truth. If he was "into you" he wouldnt have missed the opportunity to see you while in town. He is ALREADY detached.

Trust me... .while everyone is different, intimacy is the same for everyone and if you were my girlfriend and I didn't get to spend a lot of physical time with you and I was in town... .I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE WORLD... .and further I would have made PLANS to be with you so that you were available to me.

For the most part?... .what is it that you are leaving out?... .because a liar, manipulator, or narcissist most certainly would tell you those things.

You are in a FOG. STOP making excuses for him based on what you really want for yourself.

You "sound" like a really nice person. So please don't suffer this fool a moment longer... .unless you can post about greatness AND gratitude, we aren't going to fool ourselves.

Don't you either.  

Hello Narciss,

I feel for you ... .I really do ... .most of us on these boards are or have been where you are.With almost 70 post in these forums you're not stranger to BPD, the NONS in the room or the chaotic relationships that they have that is full of turmoil.  It's never easy to deal with a relationship that is in chaos and you don't know where to turn to or what to do. Your emotions are all over the place ... .you don't know if you can even trust your own choices at this point. 

So just for a moment ... .take a deep breath ... .let it out sloowly ... .now ... .close your eyes and repeat that 2 more times ... .go ahead ... .I'll wait     I can agree with what Johnlove is putting out there for you ... .YOU need to take care of YOU!  No one else is responsible for YOU!  YOU need to take a PROACTIVE role & not a reactive role in YOU and YOUR recovery from this relationship. We, "the group" can't & WON'T tell you what to say or do ... .we can give you some guidance, let you know what has and hasn't worked for us in our BPD relationship ... .in the end ... .the choice of what to do has been YOURs and will ALWAYS be yours to make ... .look inward ... .trust yourself again ... .you might not like the choice you have to make ... .but if you look yourself in the mirror and your REALLY honest with yourself ... .you know the choice YOU need to make for YOU! 

Any LDR is tough ... .it's even tougher when you're dealing with and trying to manage someone with a Cluster B mental illness.  You have to decide to work on your marriage or move on. YOU are not superwoman ... .you can't do everything ... .one relationship is hard enough.  I don't want to speak for you ... .but perhaps you have feelings that you don't want to grow old ... .that you won't find another person to love you.   STOP THINKING LIKE THAT!   Chances are you are a NON ... .and you care with all of your being about someone else ... .you give and you give ... .but eventually the vessel that holds your soul eventually empties because it never get replenished.  This is no type of relationship to be in ... .you want a mutually respectful, caring, loving relationship.  Your experience with your BPD has shown ANYTHING but that ... .you're not alone ... .we've all been there.

You said, "So, I must detach, end it or accept. How?"   Let me ask you some questions ... .

Do you like how things have been between you & your BPD s/o?  How's that working out for you?  You know from reading the numerous post here in these forums that things never really get better with someone who has BPD. Yeah there's "talk therapy, DPT, etc" but the BEST you can hope for after a tremendous amount of effort on your part is to have some level of "success" with managing the Cluster B Mental Illness of BPD.  It's hard I get that ... .I was for me as well. It's ok to love your exBPD ... .it's ok to miss your exBPD ... .hell I do. They were for a brief moment in my life a amazing part of my life. I felt amazing ... .I felt things I hadn't before ... .I thought she was "the one".  But I had situations like yours happen to me and I'm sure if the group REALLY compared notes with all honesty ... .we would find that a lot of our experiences are so very similar to one another. IN the end ... .you will continue to give more then 51% of your mind, body and soul to a person who will continue the behavior they have shown you ... .and nothing good will come from that. If you go to the mirror right now and ask yourself this question, "o I really think he's going to change?" what would the answer be ... .you don't need to tell us ... .YOU need to tell YOU!

So to your statement ... .you would need to end it then. How? well ... .NC ... .you know what it is ... .you know what you NEED to do to make it happen. Lock down your FB page, social media, block and then delete his numbers so you don't text him or call him in a moment of weakness.  YOU need to take the energy you're putting towards him into your kids and making sure they grow up with a good example of what a loving and caring and mutually respectful relationship is suppose to be like.  Example ... .my BPD step mother & biofather had what is expected from a NoN & BPD relationship ... .nothing but chaos, anger, raging, toxic relationship between to human beings ... .I knew what I didn't' want because it's all I knew ... .I had NO idea of what a loving, caring, mutual respectful relationship would be like and I've had to spend most of my entire adult life trying to figure that out. SO know the choices you make ... .you also make for your children and the rest of their lives as well.

You said ... ." I don't know if I'm trying recover from the wounds of a failed relationship or trying to make it work. I don't even know what I'm trying to make work. I just feel numb -- again."   I believe in a part you're trying to recover from a failed relationship ... .for whatever reason you and your spouse didn't work out.  You need to clear your plate of that first before you can move forward in a responsible manner for yourself and your kids. 

I would encourage you to seek out a good therapist who is well versed in BPD & especially NON behaviors. What you express is certainly the behavior of a NON ... .a codependent ... .it's ok ... .most of us here are including me ... .well ... .I''m a recovering NON.     Like a recovering alcoholic ... .you have to remain vigilant to YOUR behavior as a recovering NON and be sure to make the right choices so you don't slip down that road to oblivion again.  Your T can help you work through your thoughts, feelings and emotions from not only your BPD relationship ... .but of your separations and possible pending divorce.  This portion is so very important in your recovery.

I would encourage you to stay busy ... .invest in YOURSELF ... .You are without a doubt extremely stressed at this point ... .so you need to address that.  YOU need to burn off some stress ... .so go for a walk ... .at least a mile ... .it only takes about 15-20 minutes.  Listen to the birds or nature in general ... .clear your mind ... .listen to the kids laughing and enjoy the day in the park. Feel the sun on your face ... .feel the slight breeze ... .enjoy this moment and take pleasure in the simple things.  Be sure your eating right because nothing good comes from junk food.  Be sure you're getting the sleep your body needs ... .your mind, body and soul need sleep to repair itself and to deal with the daily things in life.  Try to do all these things everyday ... .again ... .not only for yourself ... .but your kids.

i would come to the board and post how your feeling ... .your emotions ... .and in times of weakness that you want to reach out to your EX-BPD s/o ... .reaching out to him would only open up old wounds ... .and we know what happens to old wounds that never heal ... .they fester ... .they become invected ... .and they slowly poison our body to the point it kills us ... .

YOU are a smart, caring and loving person ... .you want the same in return ... .as Johnlove says, you know you're being manipulated ... .so stop it.  WE can't do it for YOU ... .YOU have to participate in your own well being ... .YOU have to play an active role in it!   YOU are the only one that can do it !  We can't walk this journey for you ... .but when you stumble ... .we will be here to pick you up, and straighten you back up ... .it's up to YOU to decide what path to continue down ... .we can't choose it for you ... .

THAT'S HOW YOU DO THIS NARCISSI!   YOU are in control of YOUR life!  YOU have to take the active role in YOUR recovery and healing!  YOU are strong enough to do it ... .you will have moments of doubt ... .you will take a misstep every now and then ... .but YOU are strong enough to do this for YOURSELF ... .and YOUR kids!

come back here as often as you need to ... .but come back here as often as you WANT too ... .someone will always be here for you ... .

J

Hi Narcissi, I am very sorry for your suffering.   There is no one thing you must do but I would suggest you get very clear inside yourself on how you are feeling before you take any action. It sounds like you are feeling hurt and rejected which is appropriate for the situation. When trying to make decisions about whether to work on improving the relationship or detach it helps to ask yourself what you are getting out of the relationship and what you would lose if you left it. There is no timeline on the deciding process. A good question to ask yourself is what would bring you the most peace in the situation. I hope that you are able to gain some clarity by discussing it with the board.

Hi Narcissi, I am sorry you are suffering so. I would encourage you to trust your intuition in this process. What is it telling you? Is there anything you need to make a decision on right now? It sounds like you are feeling hurt and rejected that he came to town without seeing you. What would you like to be different about your situation?

I am gaining a lot of clarity from discussing this and getting everyone's input. And no, I don't have to make a decision. My intuition is telling me this:

1. He does care about me.

2. He does feel love for me at times.

3. He also forgets about me and/or decides it will never work for a bunch of reasons.

4. He sometimes does want it to work out for another bunch of reasons.

5. He is BPD/NPD -- I'm not sure which one is stronger frankly

6. He does lie when it helps him and then justifies it to himself.

I think he did not call me because I triggered him the last time we talked -- or he just didn't feel like it. However, I think he went to a program where there was a good chance I would be because:

A. He kind of wanted to see me

B. He was testing me half-hoping that I'd accept him and half hoping I'd dump him

C. He was seeking to create chaos and drama with me.

D. I think he knew he would imminently lose his job and became dysregulated.

E. Push/pull

When we talked a couple of days ago, I think he felt guilty. He also told me that he would be in Chicago to go to a program next month.

That said, I do not think he is a good or honest or considerate person, which is usually very important to me. He is not self-reflective, although he says I have helped him become more so. He has emotionally empathetic, but has zero emotional intelligence. As I said, he lies and he's controlling (He probably thinks I am controlling, which is probably somewhat correct). He likes to hold all the cards. When I feel exceptionally detached, I wonder if he has other "options."

Lots to think about.

I think this is some nice, clear-eyed thinking. I think we have struggled with similar challenges with partners who appear BPD/NPD.

I am convinced that my ex really believes he loves me. When I am in his reality field I believe it too. You know why? Because he does! He is convinced I am his soul mate. That is... .he believes it until some other feeling comes up which makes him believe something else. That's how he can veer from being in love one moment to doing something incredibly callous, as you boyfriend is doing.

It is really hard for those of us who have consistent, strong attachments to others to understand how someone can be so emotionally flighty. I think it creates an emotional response in anyone. Those strong emotions you are having may be panic. At least for me that is part of it.

I think it is good to decide if you want to detach or radically accept. Can you accept? What does that mean for Narkiss? What are your needs?   

Hi Narcissi, I'm glad you're finding this thread was useful. I was thinking about the fact you said he lost his job due to lying. Did he tell you this? If so it indicates he has a certain amount of trust in you to be able to confide in you. Have you and he ever taken the time to hash out your relationship together, such as what to expect, when you will contact each other, when you will see each other?

Yes, he told me what happened. We never really talked about our relationship. We talked a lot about being together when things settled dow but he's been in one crisis or another since I met him. He's  been frantically looking for a job as long as I've known him and more or less expected this to happen, but always thought he'd find a job first before he was fired. He has never raged at me although I've heard become bitterly unfairly angry at others. Now I know more, I wish I listened closer because he was expressing anger at himself or fear or hurt feelings.

Yes, he does trust me. We know each other very well. If I ask him, he'll tell me the truth, although he might disappear for a short while.

I don't know if I can accept that his feelings for me change so radically and along with his feelings, his behavior and actions. That makes me panic.  Nearly two weeks ago I was extremely upset at something my (separated) husband did/said. My pwBPD started talking about the anger and hurt men feel and that I shouldn't take it personally. He said, you know that, right? And I think he was really talking about him and me and That I should have listened harder.

I know he cares about me. I think I'm important to him in some way. He is important to me and I only partly understand why. But what does radically accept means? To accept what little he is capable of giving and not more? To accept that I, for the most part, cannot directly express needs? Or the emotional flip-flops? Or broken promises? Or his wife? Is there a way to accept him but not the behaviors that make me miserable? he once told me that I deserve security and consistency and he cannot giving me that. He was talking about financial but we both knew he really meant emotional consistency.

Do you think it would help to have a r/s defining conversation? My SO is also physically separated however since we have had many relationship defining conversations I'm clear on his feelings for me. If you choose to commit to the relationship I believe defining the terms of the relationship can help stabilize it. The fact that he trusts you is an asset. Does this resonate with you?

I would read JohnLove's post again, and again and again until I could recite it by heart. A lot of wise, wise words there ... for everyone.