BPDFamily.com

I have just left my SO and I feel exhausted numb and lost about what to do next. I posted on this board a week or two ago that I was considering leaving as I felt extremely confused about what was happening in our relationship. He is adamant that I have BPD, and spent a lot of time arguing about this, whilst he exhibits severe BPD traits which he blames me for. He says that a side effect of being with a Borderline is suffering from BPD traits yourself.

So everything came to a head and I feel I really need to express the situation, I feel extremely abused, heartbroken and physically sick over what has just happened in the last twenty four hours and I think I'm also in a bit of denial about the whole thing.

I was prepared to leave for the last time a few days ago, he caught me before I left and gave a very emotional talk about how much he loves me and that we just have a problem with our communication and it's that that we need to work on. That he hasn't been sensitive enough or appreciated my position or how I feel, he said a lot and was very loving, we talked through the night and again, as I have done so many times before I agreed to try again. He lay on the bed with me and said 'I feel so blessed to experience a love as deep as this'.

The next day, we went out, I felt very at peace and very in love and hopeful that we could figure things out, I love this person very much, even though I think they have been very abusive I feel as though I can see why and how, because of damage and hurt from their past.

We spent the day together and we called to see one of his friends, something happened there that put him slightly out of sorts and it was playing on his mind, when we got home it was late and he went straight to his office and started playing a game on his iPad, I asked him if he wanted a drink or some wine, he said no, I came into the house and started to prepare dinner, it was past my LO's bedtime so I was rushing a little, I decided to make a salad as well. He came into the kitchen and made a comment about the tomatoes, he has a particular way that he likes vegetables and fruit cut, eggs cooked, all very specific, I know this and when I cut the tomato I knew I had cut it a few millimetres thicker than how he likes it but for a few reasons, 1. the tomato was mushy and it didn't hold together great, 2. I was rushing and got a little distracted and 3. I couldn't actually totally remember the *exact* size and width that he preferred the tomato.

So he started to question me about the tomato, and he didn't stop, he was demanding to know why I had cut it the way I had, I started to explain all of the reasons, and he wouldn't accept it. He said so you're telling me that if you worked in a restaurant you would lose your job because you're incapable of cutting a tomato. I said no, but I don't work in a restaurant, I don't work for you, this isn't my job, I just prepared a dinner and I don't like the tone of your voice or the way you're talking to me(I recognise the tone of voice instantly, it's the one that means he's about to get angry), everything spiralled into a row, and he eventually went to his office and locked the door, he then didn't speak to me for the rest of the night because he was so angry about the way that I had cut the tomato.

The next morning he woke up and was still extremely angry, he then asked if *my* craziness has diminished any throughout the night. I said 'are you f-ing serious?'

Then all hell broke loose, he completely lost it, he was screaming, shouting, raving about how I cut the tomato again, he picked up a bowl to throw at me but didn't then threw a jumper at me, stood in front of me screaming and shouting...

'This is what they say about the Borderlines! Anti-social! Incapable of a single ___ing thing, incapable of following a simple task properly(cutting the tomato) I tried to explain that me making a salad and cutting a tomato a little thicker is not anti-social but he shouts 'THERE IS NO *SLIGHTLY* THICKER! IT'S EITHER CUT THE WAY I LIKE IT OR IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ABOUT SLIGHTLY THICKER, LIKE IT'S NO BIG DEAL, AND YOU LIE, YOU'RE A LIAR, FIRST YOU SAY IT'S MUSHY, THEN YOU SAY YOU WERE DISTRACTED, THEN YOU SAY YOU FORGOT! LIKE WHAT THE ___ IS WRONG WITH YOU, WHATS YOUR ___ING PROBLEM, DO YOU DO THIS ON PURPOSE ARE YOU TESTING TO SEE IF I LOVE YOU OR NOT, YOU'LL JUST DO WHATEVER THE ___ YOU WANT AND YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE OK?'

'YOU ___ING BITCH, YOU ___ING BITCH, ANTI-SOCIAL ___ER'

He is really screaming at this point and I say but all of those things are true, they were all true, I was rushing to prepare the dinner and put the LO to bed, I knew that I cut it the wrong way. it *was* mushy but I thought it would be passable.

I am on my laptop so I turn my webcam on to record this, I have ten clips stored of him screaming and swearing at me, while I say almost nothing apart from I'm sorry or try to explain why I cut the tomato the way I did, I have watched them over and over trying to understand and I cannot, because he has been telling me for almost a year now that I remember our arguments incorrectly, he tells me I am shouting but he's not, when it is the opposite. He tells me that he didn't say things that he did. He tells me that his anger is healthy but when I get angry it is abuse.

He starts to say that I am like Jekyll & Hyde, and that I have two personalities(I see this in him, the night before he is so blessed to have this love, 12 hours later he is screaming like a maniac because I cut a tomato too thick but he *cannot* accept or comprehend this)

He takes up almost two hours ranting and complaining about the tomato, he pauses to talk calmly and say he wants to understand and asks me questions but everytime I open my mouth to speak he talks over me. He has told me a few days prior to this that he went to see a psychologist to figure out how to help *me*. I suggest that he calls the psychologist and we go together, and see if they can explain in a professional capacity why what he is doing is ok and why it is me that is provoking it, he says that the psychologist would just ask me 'whats the problem with X wanting his tomatoes cut the way he does?'

I say that there is no problem with him preferring his tomatoes the way he does but to go into such an aggressive rage about this is wrong, so wrong. I am trying to explain to him that it is not okay to be so angry with someone because they didn't cut a vegetable the way he wanted it, he starts screaming that I am an abuser and a bully, that I am trying to bully him into eating something that he doesn't want, I say but I didn't try to force you to do anything, I just made the dinner if you want to eat it you can eat it, if you do not you do not have to, I am *sorry*.

Eventually he leaves without allowing me to speak again. He comes back a few hours later and starts laughing and trying to kiss me as if this was all just a game or was funny somehow. When he was shouting and swearing I was feeling physcially ill. I say that I want to just leave, that I love him very much and if it is truly me that causes this reaction for him I want to remove myself from him for his own health and well being. He starts screaming again that this is because I'm a bully and an abuser and that bullys and abusers always get their comeuppance when they meet him(I just want to say at this point that I can't even say anything in protestation about this but this does upset me, I was bullied when I was younger and I always remember how it felt, I have never had anyone in my life accuse me of bullying, I would actually go out of my way to make people feel integrated and to be friendly where possible).

So he starts yelling at me to get out of the house, I agree that I will absolutely leave and he orders me out right now, I say that I want to get my things, and he starts talking about phoning the police, at this point I really lose and shout in no uncertain terms that yes he is to phone the police and he is to phone them right now. RIGHT NOW. I want the police to come and I want them to hear how abusive I have been by cutting a tomato, I want the police to remove me from the apartment and I want them to make sure that we don't come into contact with each other again. For the first time in almost 12 hours he then calms down and decides that he doesn't want to phone the police. I book a hotel and get my things together to leave, he is shouting out the window at me, following me around while I wait for my taxi, I say again that I will phone the police if he doesn't stop this harassment and abuse. He starts following me down the street screaming that he loves me and that 'this is love'.

This is love.

Making someone doubt their own mind and sanity, abusing them over the most trivial things, blaming them for everything that they do AND everything that you do. Degrading and dehumanising them and making them feel sick in their stomach about what way you're going to react and when.

He is *convinced* that I am mentally ill, I have agreed repeatedly to go to a psychologist or counsellor, agreed to consider the possibilities of what he suggests but from him nothing, he is not willing to seek any help for his temper, anger or attitude and is convinced that I have caused all of it by my behaviour. I feel so numb and bruised. I don't know what to say or do, I feel as though I can feel his pain and I see his face and his eyes when he gets into these states and they look so lost and wounded but I can't help him understand that he doesn't see himself. He doesn't see the things he does and says. I feel mortally wounded from this.

I loved and still love him and want him to be well, with or without me, I too want to be well, he says that he wants to be with me and seems to clearly express that he doesn't want me to leave and wants to work through our problems but when is enough enough? Every time an argument like this happens I lose two weeks of energy and I don't know where to even start afterwards. It feels like you've been hit by a bus.

Think of what you would advise your best friend if he/she was telling you how their SO behaved when they didn't cut a tomato the right way. Part of the disorder is a core shame and hate for themselves; they can't look inward because it's too painful so they project onto the ones who are closest and love them the most. :'(

I know how their behaviour makes you feel (FOG distorts reality); a pwBPD makes up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment-if you try and get them to see actual reality it only makes things worse.

Try to look after yourself-when you are ready, learning why you accepted what you did and stayed as long as you did will be very painful but part of healing and reaching a life you deserve.

hi yellowflower  

i dont want to understate things, but thats a significant escalation over the cutting of a tomato.

sometimes all it takes is the wrong look. a person with BPD is hypervigilant when it comes to perceiving (or imagining) abandonment. in other words, not cutting the tomato correctly is cause for complete dysregulation, and feelings = fact. the amount of stress and confusion you have experienced in that scenario, is completely understandable. speaking to anyone that way is abusive regardless of his perspective.

it makes a lot of sense that you would feel numb during this time. theres no doubt a lot of shock to your system. in my experience, numbness tended to warn me that i would be experiencing a lot of very complex, and incredibly emotionally challenging feelings and thoughts. please be prepared to feel sort of all over the place. in addition to us, do you have friends and family you can lean on in this time?

Not at the minute, I'm in his country with no friends and family and staying at a hotel, I have a flight booked to go home at the end of April which I will be trying to move forward. I have nothing to return to as I gave up my home and business to start a new life with him here. I have blocked all ways for him to contact me. He actually said before I left that if I called the police that I would be stopping myself from being able to stay or be allowed back in the country, he also said that I was just being a borderline and that this is what borderlines do, call the police and make false accusations. My 'accusations' are not false. He has been incredibly verbally, physically and emotionally abusive to the point where within a few months of living with him I felt almost suicidal but all of the feelings I was having he said were my BPD traits that were coming to the surface.  :'(

It's basically been a case, of whatever he does is ok but anything I do is not ok and that I am mentally ill and need help and this help can only come from him, he sees himself as a helper, an authentic person who wants to help people see past their delusions, he said all he wants is my health and joy and well being and then I cut a tomato, or talk to him about absolutely anything at all and he erupts, he tells the same stories over and over about all of the people in his life that he tried to help that didn't appreciate him ad how crazy they were ad how he was so kind and authentic, he tells them over and over to the point that I have for a while now worried about his memory or state of mind. I did mention to him a few times about him doing this and he erupted about that too. Whereas if I talk about anything from my past it's 'superficial and narcissistic' or I come to regret it because he will be seemingly understanding and listening and the next argument that arises whatever vulnerability I have confided to him will be used to tear me apart.

I just want to add that by no means do I think I have no issues here, this relationship has made me realise I clearly do and my main aim now is to figure out why I feel to engage in being treated like this and how to heal from it and my dysfunctional childhood. I even suggested many months ago that we should find a forum and both talk openly in the forum about our relationship and see if any insight could be gained from an outside influence via his perspective and my perspective but although he reads about BPD and NPD to the point of obsessions he didn't seem open to that. I know he has had some bad relationships in the past, as have I. However his have been crazy to the point of seemingly breaking him(from what he has explained to me) I think this is part of the reason that I keep trying and kept going back, I just feel so much for how he has suffered and been treated. We both had bad relationships with our mothers, I think he has a deeply ingrained sense of distrust and fear of women. I wish so much I could have been stronger, more patient, more loving, helped in some way, maybe if it was just me but I have a LO to think about as well.  :'(

yellowflower  

i think anyone on the receiving end of being told that they have a personality disorder, and constantly having their behavior analyzed in that context would doubt their sanity and lose sight of themselves. i cant overstate: that is really tough  

im really sorry to hear that youre in his country with no friends or family and staying at a hotel. i imagine that feels tremendously isolating, and im glad youre reaching out for support. there are many members that have found themselves in the predicament of being in an unfamiliar state or country, and can relate. youre not alone; we are here to help. please dont hesitate to get in touch with friends and family and let them know what youve been through, though.


i commend you for that attitude yellowflower, and i think it will aid you as you recover. id encourage you to take your time, and treat yourself kindly as you shift your focus. things are very raw right now. its okay to feel whatever you may feel. it may take time to sort yourself apart from these accusations.

have you had an opportunity to read about Projection (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0)?

Yes, a little, he uses the term quite often, he would say that I am a projection machine... .I would always ask, how is it that when I see something you're doing, actually doing and I ask about it I'm projecting but when he systematically slices through my entire personality and self with criticism he's just 'observing' not projecting.

I just feel so sad right now. So, so sad.

We agreed that I would move here because my LO's father is dead and my SO has a child here so it made more sense, he talked about us getting married and he would sponsor me to live here so that I could stay. As soon as I got here, that all just became half-hearted, he kept saying he would do whatever it takes but then doing nothing, because the process was never started for me to remain here I wasn't able to work, he would then accuse me of not making any effort because I wasn't working and if I brought up any anxiety or fear or worry that I was feeling about being in such a vulnerable situation(basically having to rely on him to remain here and be supported until I was legal) he would become really angry and say that that was all I cared about, so real actual worries and important things that we really should have been discussing were just ignored, whereas he would spend hours talking about my soul and my 'illness' and how people should be behaving and living and relating in the world. I have been relatively lucky that I had some savings that I brought with me but he actually told me that money didn't matter and that whatever happened we would work things out, I am so glad I didn't heed that or I can't even imagine what position I would have been left in.

Hey yellowflower

I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I'm just an observer here but hope to help you see the positive in this.

I can relate.


Yes. Almost to the word.


Taking this incident on its own, here are the facts: he was in some kind of mood, you prepare a meal for him, there is dysregulation.

I'm not judging. The behavioural escalation was very large.


Yes. I have been here. I know a BP that even went so far as to joke about physically abusing the SO.


Yes. I have been on the street with the pw screaming at me. Several times. It didn't stop at screaming either.


Where is the positive?

"I have just left and I feel numb."

I felt this way many times too. Numb. I asked myself why. It was confusing because it 'felt' empty. But not a in a bad way? On questioning more, it was familiar to me because my SO used to travel a lot. I got this feeling when she couldn't reach me. I would feel like I was in a vacuum. I believe it's because my mind had been conditioned to 'trouble management' for so long that these instances of 'no dysregulation to deal with' actually FELT strange to me.

I realised it's a great thing. When I think about the dysregulation management I could be dealing with at that time, the 'vacuum' feels like it transforms into massive relief. It's like carrying a big heavy backpack that isn't there anymore. She can't come and attack me. I am well out of her reach. It was very similar to when she was 40,000 feet in the air and can't contact me. It was different after we broke up because I knew when she landed she STILL couldn't reach me. So the numbness/relief felt greater.

I think the numbness/relief could be seen as some kind of 'heavy relative relaxation'. A deep relaxation that we feel from not having to manage someone 24/7.

Ironically, I didn't really understand it to this level until my ex and I broke up (and I truly wanted it).

I just want to share this with you and give you a bit of peace of mind.

---

You mentioned he read about BPD to the point of obsession. Did you manage to read a little?

Yes I did, I read a lot about BPD and have gone through periods of being convinced that yes I suffer from it to being like no it's the situation to being like no maybe I'm co-dependant to realising that it's impossible to tell whilst in this relationship and being told every day that I suffer from it if I even so much as express an opinion.

I grew up with a histrionic mother who I think suffered badly from BPD, her rages were violent, extreme and unprovoked and what I do know is that I definitely have some kind of PTSD from my childhood. I've also had a difficult decade or so with a lot of deaths and really tragic events that have taken their toll and trying to keep everything together for my son and I. Within a few days of moving in with my SO I realised that his mood swings and anger were exorbitant. Whereas I would say I was more just emotional, weepy but able to articulate how I felt and why I felt that way, unfortunately he was(and has admitted this himself) very impatient with any form of sadness or if I cried or became down, he would tell me I was a professional victim and was in love with being a victim(or a bully? he doesn't know).

Disregulation is what he would tell me very often, he said that a lot, that I was emotionally disregulated, and also that I had facial dyslexia, like when he was angry he would say he wasn't and that his face was just neutral. I really did think I was going insane, why with him? Why had I not experienced this facial dyslexia before him, why prior to this relationship had I always had people tell me I was very sensitive and intuitive to other people and their feelings and emotions.

It's just that there's this part of my heart that is like but what about the love? He kept telling me that I didn't understand love or what it meant, true love and that the way he was treating me was the kindest thing he could do because he was choosing not to enable me, that it would be easier for him to enable me than not to but he was going the extra mile for me by doing what he did.

I just feel like the feelings I felt and still feel for him were so special and deep and from the bottom of my soul that they were worth walking into the fire over and over again, I guess maybe this is the part I'm delusional about. I do actually believe in love and can love and I am and was willing to keep hurting myself to prove to him that someone did and does love him.

After every blow up, when I remove myself yes it does feel like that, profoundly peaceful in a way and my energy comes back and I don't feel heavy and lost but my mind starts to question everything and try and be amiable, try and see his point of view, then I start to think, oh maybe it was not as bad as I thought it was at the time. 

When we reconnect though it is only ever 24/48 hours before it starts all over again though. In the past he has said amongst other things, that he is purposefully trying to trigger me, that he was just testing me to see what my reaction would be so he can get to the bottom of things and see who I really am, so if he provokes and provokes and provokes and I finally snap to him that means that he was right all along that I'm not kind or loving or genuine and that ... .and then... .I don;t know what... .I don't know why he does really anything that he does... .

its kind of like you framed it when you suggested you leave: assuming every word he said is true, his stating it, and his reactions would be uncalled for and unproductive at best, cruel and abusive regardless.


it sounds like you had some doubt about his stability from this. do i have that right? if so when did that begin?

Probably just in the few weeks before we came to live together, but I put it down to nerves of moving to a new country and starting a new life. It was so disheartening when I arrived and I realised that things were so different, I felt utterly oppressed almost immediately, within a few days/weeks he had started to diagnose me with NPD then with PTSD then with CPTSD, then it was BPD then it was back to NPD again and then he settled on BPD.

It took me a long time to reply there because I wrote a lot and then I deleted it, it just feels to raw and personal and I feel like I'm betraying him if I go into too much detail about his past or his behaviour. 

this is a safe, anonymous place yellowflower, and a support group. we often discuss very personal things we otherwise might not outside of this forum. you can share your side with us, whatever you are comfortable with :)

Thanks, sorry I fell asleep last night with my LO. I'm exhausted.

I just can't seem to get my head around the whole thing, I'm just sitting here questioning who I am and what I do, how I think what I feel. I have spent the best part of a year being told how I feel and that he knows me better than I know myself, if I was happy I wasn't really happy, if I was nice I was being fake nice, if I was listening I wasn't really listening. Just a few weeks ago he was talking to me, I listen intently to everything he is saying, he talks for over an hour without pause and meanders from the original subject into something else and then into something else. At the end he starts demanding why my face looks like that. I don't know what he means. Then he says that I don't seem as though I'm listening and that there's something 'duplicitous and malicious' underneath my face. I say no, I am listening, I'm being very careful to listen intently and there's nothing duplicitous, duplicitous about what?

'Well I don't know but it must be true because thats how I feel' I must be duplicitous because he feels that I am. I haven't said or done anything but apparently I'm doing something with my mouth that is irritating him while he speaks.

So no matter how I feel and how true I feel that to be if he decides that *he* feels I'm angry then I'm angry, or duplicitous then I'm duplicitous and no amount of trying to make him understand that that is not how I feel will work

Even when he has accused me of saying or doing things in messages and I would bring the message back up and show that he was wrong he wouldn't even accept that, he would then say that I had *implied* it unconsciously. It's like i would often have this feeling of frustration where nothing I could do or say was right and then he would accuse me of just wanting to be right and I was like     it was just this endless spiralling circle.

He thinks I have BPD trait of always leaving, which is true in a way because I have left or threatened to leave quite often, from my point of view this was because when raging arguments started over the smallest things they wouldn't end. The best thing seemed to remove myself from the situation and the prospect of me leaving was the only thing that would calm him down and talk reasonably. When I would pack my things it was only then that he would sit down and talk calmly, once he started to cry and I just remember thinking the crying seemed so forced. He was telling me about his mom and how he felt that love is wanting to fight for someone. He would scream at me to leave and then when I said ok and tried to go he would scream at me for giving up so easily and say that I should be fighting for him and fighting for our love.  :'(

YellowFlower,

I think you have made the best choice in leaving for both you and your son.  Nothing about this situation sounds good.  You will never gain any clarity with respect to your own issues as long as you remain in this relationship.  His issues, of which there are many, are his and his alone.  Based on what you have described here the amount of projection he has engaged in is staggering.  You will never see anything clearly as long as you continue to subject yourself to this.  

Be confident you have made the right decision here and stay strong in your resolve.  

Yeah... .recognize that one...

It's just another way of saying "I'm smarter than you. I'm superior. I know what it means. I have seen the light... "


There's more than one answer to that and they are all true IMO

1) he doesn't know either

2) because he has a mental disorder

3) because he wanted you to be the ultimate solution.

You will end his pain, his inner turmoil. Because you're an extension of him. He wants you to only give, never take or expect or ask anything. He wants you to read his mind so he doesn't need to talk. He wants you to feel his ever changing mood and say or do exactly what matches that mood. He wants to have control over you. He wants you to give up being a separate person, 2 bodies 1 soul. He wants you to be his mother and give him unconditional love for ever and ever and ever. Whatever he says or does.

But he also wants you to satisfy his sexual desires. That contradiction is conflict for him already; he wants to have sex with his new mother. That creates emotional tension.

And then he found out you're not perfect. You are a separate person. You can't read his mind. That must mean you don't really love him. You lied about loving him. You fooled him in thinking you loved him... .RAGE! You want things he doesn't. You ask. You confront. More proof you don't love him. RAGE! You were going to be the ultimate solution. He knew you were. And now you're not? The disappointment! (popular word with a lot of pwBPD) RAGE! How could he have been so wrong? How could you have fooled him so? RAGE! How dare you! And if you're not it, then who is? Nobody? Is he to live in his personal hell forever? RAGE!

And of course the moments he did feel you understood him without words, it felt as if you were becoming one, 2 bodies 1 soul. But that feels as if he is disappearing... You're gobbling him up... NO! He needs to fight this! He doesn't want to disappear! RAGE!

So he does what he does because he wants you to be one and because he is afraid you will be one. Loose loose situation regardless of your response. Welcome to his hell.

Try and change your ticket asap and go back home. Grieve, cry, learn, heal, and take care of who you are, who you want to become and of your LO. But do it back home, with your friends and family there for you. Let go, and go and stay NC for your own health.

I'm so sorry you have to go through all of this and it makes me so grateful I escaped this by not moving to my ex's country with him. Now if he only would leave mine...

 Why had I not experienced this facial dyslexia before him, why prior to this relationship had I always had people tell me I was very sensitive and intuitive to other people and their feelings and emotions. [/quote]


Yellowflower,

I can relate to your experience totally when you say the above statement.  Being with Ex-pwBPD , I often wondered why I didnot have these flaws... .why I was so fine in all my other love relationships. Just like you, people used to say I am caring, intelligent and very helpful person.

with pwBPD, I felt like I changed , became short tempered, will react furiously to her inconsistent and unreliable communications... .and lo and behold, she said... "you have problem with your  mind because of overwork... .you need to fix your mind... .see... how you lose control of your temper on little things"

I felt numb and confused after each such outburst I had with her and started doubting my own sanity. But, now I know,,I am back to my original self.

I tried to understand this phenomenon later... .I found that I am a reliable and responsible person and keep my word if I promise something such as texting back, calling at time agreed upon etc.  What she was doing is that she will not respond to my texts for hours, sometimes erratically in a few minutes... .sometimes not for 10 hours. She didnot follow thru the time we agreed to talk on phone and left me in limbo expecting the call... .when I call the phone is off or busy... .this drove me angry and I said angry things about her poor communication which she used  to declare that I have problem with my mind as I can not control my anger.

@woundedbibi yes you just explained exactly the whole situation. He used that exact sentence 'two bodies one soul' that we would merge into one(provided I became subservient and followed him in all ways in all things)... .

... .and yes he was 'disappointed and felt cheated' when we lived together and said I had been a fraud, a siren, a pretender, that I had fooled him but he still loved me anyway, that I wasn't who I said I was, even though I had never said I was anything in particular, I was just(I thought) kind of happy and tended to focus on positive things, when we became co-habiting 24/7 I admit I did become very confused and depressed, upset, fatigued. I remember him shouting at me within a few days of me moving in and I was just sitting silently on the bed with my LO(he was 2 at the time) thinking 'what have I done' feeling terrified and distraught, thousands of miles away from anyone I knew and having to deal with it. When I expressed that I felt very vulnerable being in his country alone with my LO he would rant about that and say I got myself into the situation and that I was a 'big girl so deal with it'.

The first time I left he had spent a whole night ranting at me because I put a DVD on while he was on his computer and started to watch it without him.

It went like this, I said do you want to watch this movie, he said no, ok, so on my own in the room after about an hour I put it on, it was a DVD from a bunch of DVD's that we had bought that day. I watched about twenty five minutes of it and he came back and asked what I was doing, to cut a long story short he became really angry that I had put the DVD on without him. I said sorry and to just turn it off or start it from the start and we would watch it again together, he starts shouting that he's not going to watch something that I've already watched, I say but I haven't I only saw a little of it but anyway, what does he mean, we just bought three DVD's of movies that he suggested we buy because he had seen them and they were good so what is the problem with watching this one together from the start, he looks blankly at me for a minute and then starts ranting again, his rant is relentless, his tone is mean, cutting, full of hate. He is shouting at me that I should have just sat on the bed quietly and waited for him for however long he was gone and waited for him to come back. He gets even angrier because I am not really reacting to his rage and says that I am like a dead person because of this(if I say nothing and don't react I'm being passive aggressive, if I get angry and shout I'm having a BPD rage and if I talk calmly without raging I'm being a manipulative psychopath so you can see my options are quite limited) about the only thing that was acceptable would be if I agree with everything he says ad apologise but even then he will continue to be angry and rage for quite some time.

At times when I haven't reacted to his anger he has followed me round the house, deliberately saying the most hurtful things to provoke me until I finally snap and then he almost looks gleeful, I remember once when he said something about my sons father(who is dead) I snapped and tried to slap him he then caught my hand and said 'okay there we go, there we go, so that's what you're hiding under there'. I always feel awful when I end up reacting and I know there is no excuse for it but it is relentless, I will be begging and pleading for him to stop and that I feel harassed and abused but he keeps just calling me a victim addict and that he is giving me a taste of my own medicine. Then if I so much as speak he will storm out of the room screaming 'BORDERLINE! BORDERLINE!' and lock himself in his office.       

My question is in this situation what is the most truly kind and loving and useful thing to do?

When I used to talk about leaving he would say at least could I give him some closure, but he couldn't tell me what the closure was that he wanted, he just wanted to talk me round to staying with him. It feels gut wrenching to have left like this, with no goodbye and in a state of crisis. Is there anything at all I can say that will help him or give us both closure or is just leaving the country and maintaining NC the best thing to do? 

its a very personal decision, yellowflower. in my opinion, the considerations you should include are your safety, both emotional and physical.

many of us arrive here feeling a lack of closure, with our relationships ending suddenly and explosively.

it is not your responsibility to provide him with whatever closure he believes he needs from you. it is your opportunity to provide yourself with whatever closure you believe you need from you.

what might closure for yourself look like and entail?

In a perfect scenario seeing one another one more time without projecting or blaming or emotionally blackmailing, accepting we both have issues and agreeing to individually work on our own selves, separating in authentic friendliness and saying goodbye. For us both to get therapy and support and not for us to each head off blaming the other.

... .although I guess that's manipulative on my part if I really think about it because I will go and get therapy and explore my issues so what I'm really saying is that I want him to accept he also has issues and to get help for that and I can't expect that from him, he hasn't been willing so far so I doubt that will change now. So ultimately what I'm saying is I want him to take responsibility for this equally which shouldn't matter, taking responsibility for myself is what matters at the minute.

The most truly kind and loving and useful thing for whom?

You or him? Because what he sees as kind & loving is to stay. Kind, loving and useful for you depends on what YOU need for YOUR closure.

As your not trying to create the perfect scenario because you know it's just an ideal dream, I wouldn't call it manipulation. It's just what you would wish for if the sky would open and you would get to have a miracle.

He will not accept anything. He will not accept any responsibility. He will not accept he has issues. He will not accept he needs therapy. He doesn't even accept you wanting to leave.

Whatever kind of closure you will go for, it will feel gut wrenching. Because you have lost the illusion of the dream guy. You loved him. Probably still do. Walking away from someone you love (or what you think is love) is always gut wrenching.

Going from the point he will not accept anything, and will probably not even let you speak your mind in a face to face meeting or phone call, what could you do to make it less gut wrenching for you?

I thought about maybe sending an e-mail with the recordings I have of him screaming about the tomato, I mean there's no way to justify them and urging him to maybe go to a therapist and show them to a therapist but he will most likely be in denial about them and won't do that. They are what is giving me resolve at the minute, when I feel the urge building that maybe I over reacted and it was my fault I listen to them and come to terms again.

So maybe just sending an e-mail of how I feel and moving on but I'm not even sure if I should open up that avenue of contact.

Yellowflower it interests me what once_removed's direction is regarding your closure. I'm noticing for now that your three responses all involve participation by your ex.

I don't know what to say about that, yes part of me still wants to hear him say he is sorry and to feel loved by him. I don't know what else to say or how to stop feeling that way. I'm sorry.

It's alright yellowflower.  :) You don't need to apologise to me. We're here to help each other remember? It's normal to feel confused or to want to engage with our partners for whatever reason. Remember feelings aren't 'wrong'. They can be constructive or destructive. No worries. If your responses all involve him for the time being, what are you going to do about it?

I feel like my only productive option is not to have any contact with him and to return back to my own country. I think I'm in real shock, I feel really disorientated and cold and I can't think straight. I have no idea where to go when I get back, I have just enough money to find somewhere else to live and then I will have to start trying to work again and get my little one into nursery.

I just can't wrap my head around the last couple of years or how everything has ended.

Even though I still have the urge to make contact and to try and repair things, I know this time that it is futile and something just keeps jamming that option for me.

So I am just going to have to go home start again and deal with the aftermath and emotions for as long as I have to.  :'(

Yellowflower, I relate to a lot of your story. Your  account of your deep effort to listen to and really hear him, and him accusing you of having some sort of malicious intent that inverted all your care for him and what he was saying to something bad and malevolent really resonated for me. That kind of distorted thinking makes is hard to build anything. I had a very similar episode, where I had a beautiful sweet discussion about something very important to my exwBPD, something I'd prepared very carefully for, and then at the very end, I said one word that he  misinterpreted (the word was "finally," meaning that we had finally managed to have this important conversation and it went well ... .And to him, that meant I felt he had finally changed his position to match mine, and I had had a secret agenda, and ... .. It was heartbreaking.) From the distance I have now I can see that that degree of mistrust makes it virtually impossible to build something good. All of my best efforts were corrupted to the point where they might as well not have happened.

Your decision to leave when he was being abusive is healthy, particularly when you have a small child involved, watching and learning. Once someone is testing you to see if you will ever speak up for yourself, differentiate yourself, protect yourself or leave abuse, and those healthy reactions are proof you don't care, you're truly btwn a rock and a hard place. There's no way to advance the relationship, unless you can keep doing those healthy things, not take what he says personally or seriously, but still not shame him, validate his feelings, and meanwhile, find a way to lead a meaningful life yourself. It's a pretty tough balancing act -- and something I bet your son would greatly prefer you not take on.

I really relate to that feeling you describe of something inside you inhibiting the impulse to resume the dynamic. There is some sort of saving self protecting superego factor that I do think stops us sometimes from destroying ourselves. On various occasions my equivalent of that has prevented me from continuing with my ex. I've been angry at myself over that because of the addictive pull I feel toward him and my genuine love for him. But I think that self protective instinct comes from intuitively grasping that his mistrust is too great and his insight too poor. It prompts me, like you it sounds like it has prompted you, to try to perform to gain his trust, but that is an unwinnable effort and also, a really unhealthy dynamic.

I would say that anything that needs to be said for closure or reflection may best be said later, when this is less charged and you've had time to let your perspective clarify.

IMO this is the only truly kind, loving and useful thing you can do for you and your LO.

You are responsible for you and your LO not for your ex or how he feels.

Besides that, there is nothing truly kind, loving and useful you can do for your ex; he is so filled with mistrust, irrational thinking and PD filters, anything you say, no matter how kind or loving would be turned into something dark and sinister.

For now it is important that you and your little one are safe and away from your ex.

Then it is important for you to go back to your own country because things will feel different there; your own language, your own culture, familiar surroundings, familiar people, they will all make you feel safer and less alienated. It is easier to heal when you feel safe and more comfortable. Life is easier when you know where to find a doctor, a counselor, a T, help in finding a place to live, a new job, even just knowing what shop to go to if there is something you need.

Once you are back home, and you have found a place to live and a new job, then you can think about how to heal properly from this experience and look at the reasons you found yourself in these circumstances.

Meanwhile, keep posting here. We know how difficult a relationship with a pwPD is, how the end of it makes you feel like you've been run over by a truck, and the whirlwind of contradictory emotions that goes with either.

Don't doubt yourself, don't waiver, it is the only healthy decision for you and your LO. Remember you're responsible for 2 lives and your LO should have the best start in life possible, without a stepdad with a serious mental illness.

Let us know if there is anything you need, or you think we might be able to help you with that we can provide from behind our keyboards. 

Thankyou guys I'm just still sitting here in shock - I just feel like a veil fell off my eyes and I can see clearly, but I just can't believe that not only can someone be so unwell but that they can be so delusionally unwell as to think that their problems and behaviours are literally everyone elses fault.

I am in something of like a stupor at the minute at realising what I have just let happen for the last few years, all the warning signs that I ignored or didn't see or looked past at the time. I just can't believe it.

I keep running through things in my mind that he has said and shuddering, I have just realised that I am like a different person, I can barely bring myself to interact with other people as I recurrently hear his voice in my mind criticising and degrading my very being. Our relationship has consisted of him behaving like a wise all knowing guru, that had an answer for everything and was without reproach. That he could see more clearly and more insightfully and percieve people and the world at a level beyond regular people.

All of his ex-girlfriends he has diagnosed with borderline, and when talking about them would go into a state of being where he seemed to be reliving the breakups or the arguments(which he would tell me over and over until I knew the whole situation off by heart but every time he told me he would tell it as though it was the first time). His stories of his breakups would include him saying that he had done 'absolutely nothing wrong' it was *all* them and all their fault, that his was beyond reproach and that they were crazy b___es. The mother of his son can barely hold a conversation with him, the mother of his second son walked out when she was five months pregnant as she said he was abusive and *never* returned, he has never met the child. She literally walked out the door one day and didn't even take her things(I feel for him but I can't help wondering that people don't just do things like this for no reason) he thinks both of them have BPD. His next girlfriend(also diagnosed as BPD by him) was apparently a drug addict and the relationship extremely volatile.

I truly think that he hates women, he seemed to have the kind of attitude that I should have no problem to cook and clean and take care of the house and my son at all times, with no help at all, if I voiced anything I felt about that he would tell me I was ungrateful, that this is what life was about, that I was a feminazi, that some women enjoyed looking after their homes and husbands and children. It wasn't that i didn't, it just became questionable having to clean up after everyone as though I was a slave, with next to no thanks or appreciation. Then he would tell me I had NPD because I wanted 'appreciation' for doing things that should be natural to me. 

The conversations are mind blowing insane... .Me:'you assaulted me and you admitted assaulting me and if you keep assaulting me I will have to go to the police' ... Him:'oh typical ___ing borderline, makes up assaults and allegations and then threatens with them, well if that's what you want to do go ahead, we'll see what I'm capable of then, maybe I'll make some charges against you abusing your child'.

So, me stating clearly that I won't stand for any more physical abuse, physical abuse that actually happened(that he has admitted to and that I have recordings of him admitting to) is in his mind, me being 'borderline' he has just accused me of fabricating assault charges and then in the next breath threatened to fabricate allegations about me in vengeance about my son. My only gratefulness in that whole situation was by that point I had started hitting record on my webcam so I had a copy of our conversations, which I started doing not out of maliciousness(as he said) but because I was genuinely so confused, I would come away after conversations and think... .did I say that? Was I shouting?... .when I lisen back at them they are like the rantings of an insane person, nothing makes sense, the double standards, the hypocrisy, the threats, it's all just madness. Sheer madness. How can this be?

Do I have any responsibility to make any kind of informing of this to the police or am I better to just leave and thank myself lucky, I just keep thinking of the next person that is going to get caught up with him.

One day we were laying in bed and he started talking with some real sense of venom in his voice about a murder case that had happened in Canada. It was about a doctor who had snapped and killed his children, he goes on to say that he watched a few minutes of an interview that the mother of the children and wife of the doctor had made and how he didn't like her, she was a narcissist and full of it and how she played her part in it too. I say 'what do you mean?' he goes on to say 'oh the poor guy was probably just doing his job, bringing home the money, doing his best and she was just taking and taking only interested in superficiality and being a b___ and then she pushed him too far and he snapped, you know she has to accept the part she played in this too you know'.

So at that point I'm feeling pretty   and I say 'but it really shouldn't matter what anyone does, when it comes to your own children whom you love you will defend them with your life, not behave as though their are pawns to use to punish someone, if you choose to hurt or harm or assault someone that is *your* choice and yours alone and it is you who has to take responsibility about that, I'm sure the woman feels swallowed by guilt but are you seriously blaming her for what he chose to do? Because you're making me feel a little bit nauseous the way you're speaking'... .goes into minor rage about women being manipulative and calculating... .leaves room. I sit on bed kind of shaking.

@patientandclear yes I too could make the mistake of saying the wrong word, literally word, one wrong word that he would disagree with the meaning of, we had so many arguments where he would be raving about the word 'promise' or 'love' and yes also always thinking that I had an agenda, couldn't tell me what the agenda was but was adamant I had a manipulative agenda against him, to use him or abuse him in some way. 

It didn't matter that I left my home, left my country, cut almost all contact with my friends, devoted myself to starting a life with him, it wasn't enough, being loving was not enough, loving was not loving in the end, kind was not kind, the only thing that he semed interested in was criticising and abusing and calling it truth and love.

The problems he had with me were always backed up with 'everyone thinks so' 'your family thinks so' 'your friends think so'... .so my family and friends whom he'd never met all agreed with him that I was a 'vile narcissist', but at the same time I didn't have any family and friends and everyone dislikes me and I make people feel very uncomfortable just being around them but at the same time people only want to be my friend because I'm friendly and I listen to them, but at the same time he doesn't think I should be talking to the family and friends(that I apparently don't have) because they are all 'narcissists with their own agendas'. Then there was having to live in our apartment block where he would have conversations with all the tenants about the things I'd apparently done and then come back and tell me how they would all agree with him, that I was the crazy Irish woman, that everyone in Ireland is crazy anyway, it became that not only was I BPD but the whole of Ireland were sick narcissists with BPD, the whole country and that we were all '___ed'... .but... .he still loved me despite all this and wanted to help me and was reading all about BPD so he could help me with it but then flying into rages over almost anything at all but blaming me for that because he had caught BPD from me, but wasn't abusing me was just 'testing me to get to the bottom of who I really was' or just saying horrible and provocative things to see what was my reaction' but it was okay because I was a bully because I wasn't always doing exactly what he wanted at all times in all ways, literally, that was bullying him because I was forcing my 'ways' onto him but he couldn't possibly have BPD or be abusive because if I suggested he had BPD and he did he would react very badly to that(which he did) and it didn't matter anyway it wasn't really abuse and he wasn't really hurting me because he was talking to the 'other' me the 'vile b___' me, because I have two personalities the evil one and the kind one, and the only thing he was hurting was my ego and egos need to be hurt in order to grow and if I protested in anyway or tried to set any boundary at all I was just being a whiny ___ing victim, and needed to be abused some more, screamed at shouted at, slapped, whatever he though, for my own good and I should be very grateful for that, that he was willing to put himself out there like that for me... .      

How long will it take my brain to de-swell and repair from this?

That it was all about control, that I was trying to control everything, even though I tried my best to just do what he wanted and to give him respect and allow him to lead.

One day we were at some Bazaar and his son had left his lunchbag inside another room, no big problem, he just needed to get the lunch bag, he tells me to wait at the door with my son, everything becomes very intense and serious, he has for a long time now repeatedly talked about his consciousness and how insightful and 'aware' he is, how he is so very vigilant and aware in all ways and all times, beyond normal consciousness, so we wait at the door, it's taking a while to get this lunchbox, he comes back and starts taking to the woman who has the keys, my LO needs to go to the bathroom, I tell him THREE times I'm taking him to the bathroom, I'm taking him to the bathroom ok? The third time I put my hand on his chest and look at him and say 'Bathroom, we'll be in the bathroom ok?'

We go to the bathroom, now bear in mind we're in a building five minutes away from our house and the room is not that big, he comes into the bathroom demanding to know where I've been and why I didn't stand where he told me too and wait. He is really incensed by this, takes personal affront that I didn't respect his orders and then basically says that if my LO had to stand there and pee his pants that's what we should have done rather than move from where he told me to wait. But the problem in our relationship was that I'm the one who want's to have all the control... .  

... .but I am so sad, so sad that he lives his life that way. So sad that he has been hurt so badly that he doesn't know how to even feel loving or love anymore, so sad that he sees everyone as mentally ill and manipulative and soaked in agenda and so sad that he feels to push and push and destroy and test and provoke and hurt and, after having destroyed everything that was there sit back and feel validated. About the imaginary thing that was never there that he was so afraid of and then caused just so he could experience what he was so afraid of and get it over with... I am so sad that I was not able to cut myself open and show him what was in my brain and my heart and that I was never wanting to hurt him or betray him or destroy him or control him, that I was happy to just be with him and support him... .and god damn, it's another level of disbelief, it's like... .it's just madness.

It's OK to feel sadness for him but you also need to feel sadness for yourself.  I know it is incredibly hard to see anything clearly right now.  It is time to take care of yourself, to put yourself first.   

Wow. That was quite a blowup. I'd say you handled it remarkably well.

I hope you are in your home country, rebuilding a life for yourself soon, if not already.

 GK