BPDFamily.com

This is my story thread:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287892

The short version is that I came here after being NC for 3 months with my exBPD, naming myself NCEA and then guess what? Contacted her.

I sent her a whatsap "Hey, it's me".

She: "call me".

We spoke for 15 minutes. Turns out that she was alone. My replacement, she says, was bipolar and abused her in some way. She said she had a very difficult time, had broken up from him and decided to be alone, for a whole year, to get to know herself and love herself, for she'd never been alone since she was 15. Said she was just looking at our pictures. That she kept thinking of me. That she texted me a few weeks back (but to a wrong number) . She realized she has a problem and wanted to work on it. Said she made herself into a sex object... .and more and more.

I told her there are many things I want to tell her, faces to face (me wanting to tell her that she's BPD0)and we agreed to meet within 1-2 weeks. That was the end of January.

A few days later, she'd already postponed it to April :-) But anyway we ended up meeting a couple of weeks later and we spent the weekend together. Talked a lot about everything and got very connected again. No sex because as I've said, she decided to abstain for a long period. Since then we met four times, always me travelling to meet her.

Long story short, within 2-3 weeks we were "together" again. Texting all day, phone calls, close connection.

We were good for about two whole weeks.

Then, of course, from one day to the next she flipped on me. "whats going on here? Are we together? I had decided to be alone for a year... ."  Within another week the whole thing fell apart, she cancelling a planed trip to visit me. I had already booked theatre tickets, some other activities... .she didn't care, and cancelled it, via email.

I called her up and we spoke for 3 hours. I told her I won't give up on her, that I know how scary things are for her, that I know she planned to be alone, bla bla bla and the end of the conversation was very positive. She thanked me for insisting on talking on the phone, said she felt the love again... . We agreed to text less but speak more on the phone. Have "real communication".

Then the next day I wake up to see that she changed her whatsapp image, which was meant to be some kind of sign for me, as if she was turning a new page, because the previous picture was one that she put there for me.

This broke me. Something in me changed. We just spoke for three hours the previous night, agreed to have "real communication" and then this... .another one of her "signs" games. I actually felt something in me shift. I felt like it was the last straw.

So then I had to take someone to the theatre, with the tickets I've bought her. A sweet 24 years old I met in a cafe (I'm 37) and I didn't plan for anything to happen, but it did. We set in some restaurant and started kissing. This girl is totally 180 from my exBPD... .sweet, warm, appreciative, healthy, loving, smiley. A Vegan, she wouldn't hurt a soul. Lived in India for 6 months to volunteer with the local kids. Every time she looks at me, she smiles.

Then three days later I speak with my ex, she tells me how hard that weekend when she didn't come was for her. She kept thinking about me. She's laughing, I ask why, she says "I'm happy to hear your voice". Then she asks "have you seen my new whatsapp picture?"  (LOL)

Push, Pull, Push, Pull... .

Meanwhile, I warm up to her again, but I also start seeing the new girl more and more. She stays over. We go for a weekend trip. I tell her about my exBPD but nothing to the ex about her.

She sleeps over at my place more and more. Every position is comfortable, no matter my my whole body is on her, or her whole body is over me. With my exBPD, it's the complete opposite. When I sleep at her place she makes me feel like I need to apologize for breathing.

My new girl, as described above, she is marriage material. But there is one problem - she's TOO good. She's has no dark side, no ___ups (that I know of, yet). She's not crazy, she doesn't have a crazy sexuality, she's not playing games. So of course I don't have with her the ups and downs that I have with the exBPD.

It saddens me to use this word but... .it bores me a little.

Now again I feel like I'm still very much in love with my ex and I feel that as long as I'm in contact with her, I might not be able to fall in love with my new girl. I know that the right thing would be to cut the ex out of my life and just try to have something healthy and good with my new girl but I find it so hard.

Also, things being so "perfect" with the new girl, I'm starting to freak out a little. I've been single /long distance/ in open relationships for five years and the idea of me actually being in a closed relationship with this sweet girl who lives in the same city as me scares me. I feel I'm panicking a little. So now I can understand my exBPD a little better.

Instead of enjoying my new girl, I find myself looking at whatsapp waiting to see if my ex is "online" hoping she'd write me. If we don't text each other 2-3 days, I feel like crap. She's playing with me and I play back. We don't write each other 2-3 days, then we're warm again, then again we don't write for 2-3 days... .

This is the shortest I've could make it, I left out tons of details.

Hey NCEA,

I think it's pretty normal that you freaked out in front of the perspective of having a relationship with an emotionally sane girl.

And the reason is very simple: you got used to the dysfunctionality that characterizes a relationship with a BPD. It really is like an addiction.

Perhaps you should investigate why you're so attracted towards these kind of relationships. Are you a co-dependent? Do you have some Cluster B traits?

I myself investigated, some time ago, why I was attracted towards my ex uBPD/HPD. Turns out I have my own BPD traits (within "normalcy"... .but they are there).

My personal suggestion: focus on the "normal" girl, you'll really start to appreciate, sooner or later, the stability of an emotionally sane partner... .the fact that you don't have to be scared for everything, thus allowing yourself to have true intimacy with the new partner.

Keep the friendship with your BPD-ex... .if that is realistic and OK for you emotional well-being. And enforce very strong boundaries, while keeping your goals (i.e., what you truly want from your ex) very clear.

Otherwise it's better if you let her go.

I feel for you.  

I'm really *really* new here.  Staying in my relationship with my partner who I strongly believe is suffering from BPD.  

I don't have much I can offer---other than I hope you find what you need---what is the most right thing for you, because I think that its not uncommon for those of us involved with BPD partners to forget that our needs matter, A LOT.  

I'm sorry that you so much adore this girl, yet your being used to an up and down history with your BPD ex causes boredom in this new relationship.  I don't know what the right answer is for you, or me, or anybody.  But I do wish you happiness in love and life.  

Yeah that's BPD for ya... .push-pull, it will never end

Cut back on the contact with the BPD girl, let her come to you. That's what worked best for me. They can't stand feeling pressured or obliged to do things. It's kind of a trigger for them to start panicking.

Or even better, like the previous poster suggest: examine yourself why you're so into dysfunctional relationships. Sure, the high is incredible because the lows are as well. It's like a junkie who doesn't get his fix for a few days and then scores. That feels amazing (trust me been there)

In the end, you're better of with the satble girl. You say she's 24 and you're 37? Well done sir ;-)

Thank you for your help everybody, I really appreciate it.

I'm not very "normal" but this has been a good thing for me. Started my own business at 21, retired early (in my late 20s), travelled the world for 5 years... .I'm intense and extreme but that's me and I'm not fighting it. I learned to embrace it. So yes, of course I'm attracted to someone who is like me. And of course the normal sweet girl bores me.  

So you're cluster B-ish :D

Well, you cannot really complain if you don't make, at least, some little efforts to have more functional relationships! :D

I'm going to try. Tonight I meet my sweet girl, I'm going to tell her more about my difficulties and explain that I want to make this work but that she needs to give me time and space and we should take things slowly. If she agrees, I'll come clean with my exBPD, say that I met someone, and explain the situation.

How does that sound?

I'm committed to trying this out for 2 months.

The problem is, it's not about not trying. I can try... .but if I don't fall in love with my sweet girl, there is nothing I can do about it. I can control my actions but not my emotions. Right?

Why don't you not put an expiration date on this, remove any pressure to have feelings. Just try and enjoy the moment as each interaction happens. Let yourself be vulnerable (if you feel comfortable). From what I hear, TRULY connecting with someone and building layers of trust and love is slow-going but infinitely more satisfying than the crazy up/down high/low's we experience in a BPD relationship.

Good luck dude!

Not putting an expatriation on something that wasn't very good ended with me being in a 9 year relationship. I don't want to waste my or her time.

This is me reaching out and slapping you.      :)

Dude, don't overthink it.  Sometimes things are as good as they appear.

Hi NCEA


I understand how difficult this is for you. Most people on this site are looking for stable, loving partners - and you don't know if you can handle one! I've been there myself in the past and actively sought relationships that I knew couldn't go anywhere. You are right though - you have to be true to yourself. You can't make yourself fall in love with someone just because it seems the sane, rational thing to do. But at least you're being upfront with this girl and that's pretty much all you can do whilst you wait to see how things develop.


Fanny

im in a similar boat.  sort of.  right now me ex hates me but comes up with some reason to contact me every few days.  I think shes waiting for an apology for literally kicking her out of my house that she lived.  while I wait for an apology for her stealing over $1000 and going to Florida with one of her many exes that she contacts all the time.  meanwhile ive met a very nice girl and im bored and think about my BPD all the time.  I think she is a love addict and I am a love avoidant.  its a potent combination.  I pick women that that I cant get close to and run from the ones that are crazy about me.  I even ran from my BPD during the love bombing for a little while.   I found a great site that explains it better than ive ever heard it explained.   this woman knows her stuff.   www.kristinsnowdenmft.com/toxic-relationships

That's the excuse BPDs use to justify their actions... .:D

Emotional intelligence represents the ability to assess and control your own emotions... .and it's something we develop during our whole lives. Hence... .take your time

Props to you for self awareness. That's more than 1/2 the battle. My new (hopefully NON) bf and I actually had a conversation about how he is slightly dismissive avoidant, and I'm slightly anxious, in our attachment styles. We agreed to me mindful of each other's needs and how we may experience intimacy differently. There are advantages to dating over 40 where both parties have learned from past "mistakes"... .

Many times I see here posts such as "my ex just left after X years (8-9-12 years), he must be BPD!" and my response to that is "wait. maybe they just fell out of love with you?" 

We can't control our emotions, we can control our actions. The difference with BPD is that they can't control neither of these + have identity issues and all the rest.

My emotions towards the exBPD are pretty stable, I've been in love with her for more than a year. I've never pushed/pulled her. Which is probably why she's "bored" with it.

So I've sent her a really warm whatapp 2 days ago, no answer. We're not together and I have no expectations other than being a social human being like the rest of us, with a reply like "thanks hope you're well too".

SO

(drum roll)

I'm going to tell her about me dating again and having met someone. I think it can be better for our friendship because I can be much more free in helping her with her issues. It took me two months to say the word "disorder" because I was afraid of her reaction, so no more of that.

What helps me most is hanging out on the forum for a few minutes a day and see just how predictable they are and seeing her as emotionally 3 years old, it's the only way really to explain or understand their behaviour.

You don't get mad at a 3 years old, do you?

But I must say that being again in contact with her DID help me, before that I was a total mess and in complete depression. Doing this 2nd round showed me how all my BPD suspicion was right on the money. It took me weeks to let go, I still didn't fully... .but it's much better being in low contact and observing from the side than living without knowing anything and being in the dark. I say each case is different but if the ex is not a true psychopath, no reason not to stay friends.

Cheers.

First of all I wouldn't bring up another chick. If she is BPD that's never a good idea no matter who did what. You can trust me on that one. Second of all the whole friendship thing isn't necessarily a good idea either. So you need to be friends with someone who doesn't answer you for 2 days? I think you're asking for trouble maybe other people can give you more thoughtful response to your last post but I think you're asking for more pain and I definitely would not bring up the fact that you're dating somebody else. 1 people with BPD have serious abandonment issues. 2 some of them seek revenge. And 3 I question if you're doing this to try to make her jealous which is not a good idea either.  And if you are dating somebody that girl does not want you to be friends with your ex. You can also take that to the bank. All I see is trouble in your future the way you're proceeding but that's just my opinion

The status between me and my exBPD is that we were seeing each other BUT not together and NOT having sex BUT I was also not seeing anyone else because I was going on this abstinence period with her (after being with 100+ women in the last 5 years). So the whole situation between us is grey.

A friend doesn't have to reply, I have no problem with that. A romantic interest in the grey area of what I described above... yea, it pisses me off, and it shouldn't as long as I take it out of the grey zone and into a clear friendship zone.

I want her as a friend because I have deep care and concern to her. She won't freak out and seek revenge, she doesn't want us to be together, she'll be relieved I think that I'm off her neck.

I think you're breaking your word to your ex. You told her you support her abstinence plan, will be there for her ... .Then you got what you call "back together," took a trip, shared emotional intimacy, right?

You had an amazing 3 hour talk. Then she took you at your word and changed her Whatsapp pic to something not for you. You got hurt and starting dating someone else instantly.

Her gestures of separation and independence while still maintain an emotional/romantic connection to you are potential very healthy for someone with BPD. My ex did essentially this for a year with me and, while it ended and the way it ended hurt (detailed elsewhere), what was important to that year was that he separated, un-enmeshed himself, but created a different kind of emotional intimacy with me that I honored. I did not push for more. It was very important to his sense of safety and of being loved for himself that I did not freak out over small withdrawals. He was learning self-definition like a toddler.

PwBPD typically have zero experience with them placing limits on how much their SO defines them, and that being OK. Seems like that is what you and your ex were experimenting with and it sounds pretty healthy.

Except you have not sufficiently detached for her to be able to change her Whatsapp pic without you not only freaking out but pretty much betraying her with another woman.

I am not saying your and your BPDex are destined for happily ever after if you give her this time while honoring your intimate connection. My ex ended up leaving me in several ways; HE did not honor the intimate connection we had. That said -- if for whatever reason you want to pursue the r/ship with the new woman, please recognize you are effectively breaking up with your ex and you cheated on her. You can invoke the formal fact that you two were not having sex but you spent the weekend together and were de facto partners.

Do not rationalize that it's all good because now you can help her more. She likely does not want your help. She likely wants you to love her while standing back and letting her work on herself. (Not saying she WILL do that.)

If you are going to proceed this way it calls for extreme gentleness. You are potentially breaking her heart. She has trusted you with aspects of her true self and that makes her super vulnerable to you. I suggest drawing a line with her in terms only of your r/ship first ("I'm realizing I was fuzzy in my mind about what we are doing. I totally respect your abstinence project and I am officially setting aside any hopes or plans for it to come to a close with us resuming a romance".

Much later, after lower level contact only (no longer being de facto partners), the fact that you are seeing someone else will fit the storyline. Having done it now, and in reaction to her asserting her autonomy in a perfectly reasonable and perhaps symbolically important way, could really hurt her.

Yes and no. She never asked me to go on  abstinence. I did it anyway, because I wanted to give us a chance, and I did it while things were good between us. But then she cancelled a trip to come visit me after I've booked many expensive activities... .now she's been push pulling me for weeks already. Not answering texts for days. Not saying "hey I need some distance" but literally blowing me off with no response at all.

But yes, maybe I shouldn't say I met someone. I will only say I'm starting to date again. Who knows, to be honest her "abstinence" is just from sex, I suspect that she's not answering me and push/pulling me because she has new "supply" of attention AND/OR she's splitting me.  

So she's not having sex but if she keeps flirting around and leading other men on... (who knows?) then it's just same old same old.

But yes, good points. I'll just say I'm starting to date again.

Oh and that Whatsapp picture... .It was so sad how she asked me a few days later, when I didn't react: "did you see my new whatsapp picture? A friend of mine sent it to me" (a guy, no question about it), just to make sure I've noticed it.

I have a date with my new girl in 2 hours so I sent my ex the message via whatsapp. Really nice and warm and supporting, no mention of a new girlfriend.

I think what she was doing is being happy to have me "on the side" while she's trying to "be alone" and keeping ALL her options open.

My new girl, she was involved with someone for two years, someone she loved very much, but he was 37 and didn't want children and they decided to break up because she's 100% sure that she wants a family. So they broke it up despite being crazy in love.

So considering this, I think I will explain her today, again, that I'm very nervous about being in a relationship and that I need space and time to take it slowly. Just so you get the picture, we know each other for 5 weeks but she already has a key to my place. I'm not just freaking out, I have solid reasons to freak out.

And I'll tell her that we're trying it out for a couple of months but because I know that she's a serious person -  I won't drag it longer than that, if I see that it doesn't have a future.

I think this is healthy and mature, no?

Oh and here is what I think will now happen:

30% that she won't even respond.

60% that she'll say "fine, ok" coldly and I won't hear from here for 2-3-6 weeks.

and 

10% that she'll pretend she doesn't know where is this coming from and will try to pull me back.

Your new girl sounds like a very tenderhearted person, very sweet and kind. You are still enmeshed with your ex, communicating with her, and at the same time you've given this tender girl the key to your place. Now you want to pull back and tell her you need to take it slow. That's potentially going to be painful for her. She's been honest with you about wanting kids, and made herself vulnerable. You're the one who gave her a key, you are the one who has been fully aboard this train until all of a sudden you are not.

From the outside looking in, this seems frankly exploitative of the new girl. Like a rebound relationship. It's hurtful to get involved with someone so quickly, and so deeply, and then to suddenly pull back from them. It's the kind of thing our BPD/NPD partners do to us, and it hurts.

If you want to tell the new girl you are taking it slow let her know exactly what that means. Does it mean you aren't committing? When can she expect you will make a decision? She deserves to have information so she can protect her heart.

If you are going to see the new girl I'd suggest you detach from your ex, fully. I'd suggest it would be healthier to spend some time examining your role in all this.

Hey,

I'm not sure you read the entire thread, my new girlfriend knows about the ex and I've told her twice about moving slowly. She has keys because I wanted to leave early and she wanted to stay, so I gave the extra keys so she can leave later than I did... .I'm fully aware of what I'm doing and above I did mention not trying this longer than two months if I don't see a future. Also, it's an exclusive closed relationship, no questions here. My first in five years.

The thing is NCEA, I get it, but...

You're BPDish or intense or whatever you want to call it. I get that. I was the same. Partly still am although age has calmed/mellowed me down a lot.

Not being able to control your feelings, yes and no. You can't control who you fall in love with. Especially if your BPDish. But I have learned to steer my feelings more over the years. If I feel crappy when I get up it doesn't mean I have to feel crappy all day anymore. I can do things to make me feel better and that way I can control my feelings to a degree. And of course I don't have to act upon a feeling. Although that last bit can sometimes be difficult.

I don't think it's fair to say you see a lot of posts here that are just from people that have exes who just happened to fall out of love with them; I haven't seen one post where someone didn't write about at least emotional abuse and not understanding what the h*ll just happened. By saying that you come across as just wanting to lash out because someone doesn't agree with you...

Now about the ex and the new girl.

You seem to genuinely care for the ex. But you say she is an emotional 3 year old so you can't get angry at her. You can get angry at a 3 year old. You should be around toddlers more often... .:)  Yes, a pwBPD has the emotional development of a child. But they are still adults. Your ex is still responsible for her own life and her own choices. If she wants help you can help her. If you help someone that doesn't want help it's not helping, it's saving and you're taking away their responsibility. Be careful not to treat your ex as a 'project'.

Also be careful you don't loose sight of you in this want/need for friendship/greyzone/helping and your reasons for doing what you're doing.

The new girl. I don't think she and your relationship with her stands a chance. She could be the solid base to keep your BPDish personality grounded but you are a bit bored. She's not wild so she hasn't taken your heart on a roller coaster ride... And you're scared of the commitment and panicking because of it. You gave her a key within 5 weeks for practical reasons. You first mention the key as a solid reason to freak out. But you gave it, she didn't take it. When you get this feedback you go all nonono, just practical, so she could stay longer. Still, you gave it. If the key is a reason to freak out, either she couldn't stay out longer than you, tough luck, or you should have asked for the key back directly afterwards. You bring it as if it is happening TO you but YOU are making this happen.

Same goes for the ex. The new girl also doesn't stand a chance because you are still emotionally attached to your ex. And the saga continues because you LET it continue. You contribute to the saga instead of ending it.

@Woundedbibi ... .I think you are spot on here, with everything.

If being completely honest here, I have to say I'm quite confused by all your intentions here and what you're doing. Are you sure you're quite clear yourself? It does seem quite unfair to give someone something with one hand and then attach a caveat to it, or make it sound as if you're making a grandiose gesture because it's such a leap of faith for you. Either give the key wholeheartedly and with your faith attached, or wait until you are completely ready and feel more sure in yourself. It is perfectly possible to become attached to someone in as little as 5 weeks, we all know that, and I mean within a normal healthy relationship. People have met and got engaged after 6 months and gone to to be married for 30 years etc. But I'm not sure, however the nice the person, that I'd be giving anyone the keys to my home after 5 weeks. That's just me, but if there's one thing every one of us knows on this board without a doubt... .not everything as it may seem at first glance. Be more guarded with the practical things and more open with your heart. Every one of us is hoping to avoid a repeat performance of what we've gone through, and I am sure we aren't going to allow that to happen to us again. But we should still be wary of anyone new in our life, BPD notwithstanding, because trust is earned and built up over time.

I agree with Bibi, what chance will you really have with the ghost of your ex hanging over you? My advice to you would be to be extremely circumspect about how much you tell the new lady in your life, or there is every danger she will begin to feel like an emotional crutch, a rebound... .or your therapist. She probably doesn't want to know all of the nitty gritty about your ex, who ever does? It smacks of not being over something and she may feel like a second choice. Even if she is happy to hear you talk about it - and I do applaud your openness and honesty - to be totally frank, this is stuff you should be handling without her involvement at this extremely early stage of your new relationship.  If things develop, and you end up officially together, or even going all the way and settling down, there will be plenty of time at a later stage to confide in her.

She sent me a picture but I think she sent it before reading what I wrote. It is a picture of a place we've been together. After that - nothing.

I agree with everything you're saying.

You'll hate me for this but if you are only a few months out (and not even, really, because you're still engaging) from the BPD relationship -- or any relationship for that matter, your new sweet girl sounds like a rebound. There's another site that recommends taking two years off to heal after pathological relationship, which is what those BPD ones were. The brain needs time to heal. Our own inner chemistry needs time to reset. We mess with that reset a little bit if we just jump into honeymoon phase (especially sexually) with someone new right away.

Please be careful with this girl and take it slow.

And whoa, wait: you were with 100+ women in 5 years?

Sounds like sex addiction, man. There's treatment for it. I'd let that sweet new girl move on so she can find someone who can stick around.

Before the five years I was 9 years in a relationship with a histrionic.

Rebound Shembound... .It's just semantics 

So just so you understand what I mean - my new girlfriend slept over this night at mine and we went to dinner beforehand, so now she left to work and writes me 2 hours later asking if we could meet at 14:30 for a walk in the park for an hour... . :)o you understand now that I'm not "freaking out" with no reason?  And this is after I've told her THREE times that we should take things slow.

Small disclaimer is that her dad arrives here this evening and she'll spend time with him for the next 3 days. But still.

And it feels clingy and overwhelming and I'm starting to feel that it's too much. And now I understand my exPBD, because that's maybe how she feels when I become "too much" for her. The problem with the exBPD is that when I give her space - she withdraws even further and further, I could just never find a balance with her.

See, this could be written by my BPD ex. Only, he was with me for six years and tried to persuade me for several that I was a histrionic, and before that, he was 10 years in marriage with a narcissist. And now he's moved a sweet new girl into his house, and from what I can tell, it's been pretty fast.

Your bratty close is so much like him, and he and I did that very well together. I want to say watch out here or you'll wind up being *my* next relationship. Which would probably be plenty of fun, but, you'd really have to do a full STD panel first and probably ongoing.

From all your five years of 100+ women, you know full well it's all roses and rainbows at first. Sounds like you, your ex, and the new youngster are all sending and receiving really mixed signals. Kind of scary too that her dad's in town; play it right and you could meet the parents and be married by next month!

I understand it feels like she is way too clingy.

The thing is though that there is no definition for 'taking it slow'. Maybe in her world she is. And let's be honest, giving a key within 5 weeks, for whatever reason, is not a sign of taking it slow either. In your mind it might have been for purely practical reasons but in her mind this might have been a VERY important thing. It would have been if my ex had given me a key to his place... It most certainly would have been at her age. I would have called all my girlfriends at her age "WOW! We must have entered the next phase! He gave me a key!" So you are giving her mixed signals. Slow apparently means to the level of giving a key and not asking for it back. What is a walk in the park compared to a key? Nothing... So if you would now object to a walk in the park I (if I were her) would not understand it. Just an hour stroll versus entrance to your world at my leisure. Stroll prohibited, entrance allowed. Huh?

And apart from the mixed signals she probably senses your reservations. Most 24 old girls would do what she does: "I sense something slipping away, I will tighten my grip". To prevent losing you she tries to pull you in tighter not realizing she is going to cause her own heart ache.

To top that there are the ex talks. ANY woman hates ex talks. At 24 you hate them and often have no clue how to react to them. If she was a confident 24 she would think "still hung up on his ex, what the heck am I doing here" and walk away. She is not a confident 24. She still thinks "talks about the ex a lot/again... It's like there are 3 of us in this relationship... Might as well invite her with us when we go out... she's there anyway. Wtf am I doing here? It makes me feel uncomfortable... insecure... Am I not pretty enough? She's probably skinnier than me... maybe I should loose weight... What if I was really really sweet? Showed him how good it can be? Maybe he'll forget about her then... he says he wants to take it slow... is that because of her? He did give me a key though... that's SIGNIFICANT. Does that mean he has chosen me now? Did she have a key so soon? He keeps talking about her... .if she meant that much what does he want from me? Should I leave? But I really really like this guy... .He could be the one... .If he could just forget about her... Still talking about her... I'll nod my head... .wants to help her... god knows why... sounds like she needs to help herself... choose already... her or me... .what if I changed my hair colour into hers? Maybe that would help... What does she have I don't... .yeeezzz... ."

So I get why you are feeling uncomfortable but I can relate to her world too: "Here is this great guy who says he still has an ex hanging about that he wants to help and/or has feelings for, who says he wants to take it slow but who's definition of slow means giving keys within 5 weeks, who I can sense has reservations and doesn't seem to give it a real chance but the harder I try the more I sense he retreats".

Unless she changes personalities overnight, takes a stand, grows confidence overnight, hands you the key back without you asking, doesn't ask to spend time together, the sweet girl does not stand a chance.

So basically she doesn't stand a chance.

I understand about the key. The ex, I mentioned her twice, in two sentences, saying I just came out of a relationship and that it was/is painful. Total of maybe two minutes, but very to the point.

We are meeting in two hours I'll explain what slow means.

The histrionic had 9/9 of the traits + cheated on me. The point was that I'm capable of "hanging around" if I decide to.

Me an exBPD talked on the phone for 20. She thanked me letting her know I'll date again, said she thinks she's happy about it, that it feels right for for. I'll now wait and keep LC every few days, while going slower with my new, seeing how it goes. I had a long talk with my new, told her that slow means meeting just 2-3 times a week, like people would usually do after just 5 weeks of knowing each other... .She accepted it. I'm glad I can finally at 37 express my feelings and wants like this, I could never do it in my 20s. I also told her that I still have feelings for my ex and that if she wants this to work between us, to give me space and understanding. She was accepting and it's all good between us.

Yes, I understand that I SHOULD go NC with my ex.

No, I can't do that. Not yet anyway.

So guess who wrote me today, asking how I was doing and how my "dating" is going, saying that she feels good and positive and hinting that soon she'll be ready for a relationship?

It took less than 48 hours... .I must admit even I'm surprised how quickly she turned around. She was totally making me feel that she's interested again.

I told her that I'm starting to go to therapy again and she said she's been looking for CBT, found one, but wants to do more research... .So now I've flipped the script, not only she's chasing me but I'm the one going to therapy and wanting to be better and work on myself. So hopefully this will finally push her to start CBT.

I'm so in love with this woman it's awful. You know how everybody writes here that a BPD never lets their bed go cold? She's been not having sex / dating for 4-5 months now. She's very high functioning too. So who knows where this is going to.

Not all pwBPD keep their beds warm at all times. My ex seldom has relationships or sex.

Your ex has not committed to therapy yet, or started it, or followed through when things got tough. And starting therapy doesn't equal ready for a relationship either. I understand you're getting hopeful but don't get carried away here. It's how she feels now. Let's see how she feels about it later on.

My ex also goes long periods without sex or relationships, especially when he is a narcissistic collapse.

He's also been in therapy most the time we were together. He had one long-term counselor who was the worst enabler ever. I was shocked at how she bought his tales of woe and would validate his dysfunction. We also cycled through different couples counselors. He's been in a group for some time and from what he used to tell me, I think he treats them like an audience. From his perspective they agree with everything he says, especially when it comes down to what a horrid person I am.

Therapy only works when people are ready to do the hard work of change.

I hope you are honest with your new girl about what is happening. 

I think it will be impossible for her to see me going to T and not join in, very quickly. She also knows that I'm now seeing someone else, so it's puts some healthy pressure on her to act on it.

My new girl - when she asked me to meet up for a walk in the park I came to meet her to explain again that I need to take it slow. That I still have feelings for my ex, that I'm freaking out, etc and that this is why I'm starting therapy again - all true.

If I was falling head over heals for my new girl, I would go NC with the old and that would be it. But instead I'm freaking out that it's too fast, feeling pressured, missing my ex, etc. It's probably a combination of all those things together that confuse me.

The point is that I'm open and honest with everybody about my confusion and situation and I'm doing everything in the most loving and kind way. I don't know what else I could do other than cutting off one or the other, but it just doesn't seem right for the time being.

Hi all;

If I may interject for a minute and be completely blunt; NCEA... .what you are doing to this new lady in your life is awful. Have you read what you have written, and told all of us? "I am so in love with this woman... ." (your ex.) So what in God's name are you doing messing around with someone else's heart and mind? You are, with the best will in the world, using her as an emotional crutch. I'm sorry, I 100% understand the need to feel wanted, to want to move on, to want to find love again, and I am also sure you have some kind of feelings to this perfectly nice/'normal'/sweet/non-PWPD you're dating. But not enough. I get the sense that if you got the word that your ex felt healed or ready enough to give it another shot, you wouldn't need asking twice. And where does that leave this new girl in your life?

You have mentioned a couple of times about not falling 'head over heels' with her, as if the responsibility is hers to make you feel something - but it's not. The responsibility is yours to come into a new relationship, dating, or whatever, with a clear head and a ready heart. You have neither, it is evident in everything you've written. And I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but your posts read to me somewhat as if you're keeping this girl 'warm' on the back burner as a back up plan in case things with your ex take a lot longer (or never) to reconcile. That is grossly unfair. Look inside your heart, and tell me if I'm wrong. Yes, she is pretty, sweet, warm, fun to be around... .whatever. But the bottom line seems to be that she's making you feel better because she's plugging a bit of a gap right now. What's in this for her, and in the long run if she starts investing her feelings in you?

I fully agree with everything Bibi says re: the key and going for a walk. You are sending seriously mixed messages. When people fall IN LOVE they want to spend as much time together as possible. That's natural. Asking to go for a walk in the park is, as Bibi says, absolute peanuts compared to giving a key, whatever caveat you want to attach to it for practical reasons. And no one, man or woman, should have to endure being told that their new partner 'still has feelings' for the last person they were with. That's terrible! What are you doing for her self esteem? I'm so sorry but you just don't sound equipped to be this girl's boyfriend right now... .or anyone's. You have clearly stated you are still in love with your ex. Anything else therefore would be a poor second, no? When we enter into a relationship with someone, it's not just supposed to be about what we can gain from being with that person, but also we have to give to that person. Give and receive in equal measure. But you are giving your new gf breadcrumbs, emotionally, because you're saving the loaf for your ex.

The line that jumps out at me most of all is this:

So guess who wrote me today, asking how I was doing and how my "dating" is going, saying that she feels good and positive and hinting that soon she'll be ready for a relationship?

It took less than 48 hours... .I must admit even I'm surprised how quickly she turned around. She was totally making me feel that she's interested again.



Can you see what you've written here? Really, read it. Because it reads to me very much as if you are using your new relationship as 'bait' to make your ex wake up and take an interest. 'It' took less than 48 hours? What did? You telling her that you were dating someone new... .it 'took' less than 48 hours for her to 'turn around'? I'm sorry but you seriously need to question what you're doing.  

Many of us, if not all of us, on here, know exactly how you feel, NCEA, we really do. I think Bibi could back this up. We ALL want to be loved. We ALL want someone. The thing is, we also recognised how hurt we've been by our exes, and that we are probably not in a position to give to anyone right now. So, we sit it out. That means riding the loneliness, embracing our own company, finding happiness in our friends and other things, keeping busy. I am quite sure every one of us here would like a lover/partner/friend to share our lives with, but that doesn't mean taking up with anyone just to mitigate the pain. I guess what I am trying to say is, I still very much love my ex as well. Really, I do, at least the lucid side of him. I don't even want anyone else. I need to heal and accept what he's done. I spend every single day wishing he'd talk to me again. It's been 4 months. Maybe he will, maybe he never will...

That said... .we all know, too, that life goes on, and that in time, we will heal, or at least find a place of peace. One day, someone else will come into each of our lives who ignites a new set of feelings, a new interest, and who makes us want, really want, to try again and give love a chance. It won't be compromised with still feeling 'in love' with our exes. We will want to start something new because it will feel right, and natural, and exciting. It shouldn't be clouded with mixed feelings and constant questioning. It is the human condition to get  up, fight for another day and try again. Life must go on. People overcome all sorts of adversities and try again, including bereavement of a partner. In a sense we have all been bereaved.  I absolutely want to be with someone again, but I am waiting until that person comes along and it feels naturally right... .no questions asked.

Stripey's right... .

Anyway, I don't think it is dishonest to date new partners in the aftermath of a BPD r/s -- as long as one is honest.

So, that means to NOT use a person to play games with the exBPD, be always up front about your feelings, NOT telling lies, etc. Also, new partners should not be used to avoid emotional healing - something that BPDs unfortunately do.

Of course! I sincerely hope my love life isn't over at 38 years old -  I have WAY too much to give! I had an epiphany last year (after the first break up) when I pretty much gave myself a talking to and thought "come on, Stripey, that's the not the last time you're going to be intimate with someone... .get a grip! You're an attractive woman, men want to be with you... etc. etc." Ok what I hadn't factored in was that the next person I would be intimate with again would be my ex when we got back together... . lol but that's another story. The point is, that even then when the pain and rejection was brand spanking new, I knew that there would, eventually, be someone else.

Of course we all deserve to go on and date, love, be physical and affectionate with someone new... .but not to play roulette with someone else's heart if we are still IN LOVE with our exes. There's nothing dishonest in dating if we are single, absolutely not. But I question the driving force in this example... .we shouldn't be trying to have our cake and eat it! I suppose my point is that this girl deserves to be dating someone who isn't telling her he still has feelings for his ex, and as a consequence (because that is the reason why) they have to 'take it slow'.  If we flip this around for a minute, none of us would like to be treated like this, would we? Why should she have to have the brakes put on her new relationship, in essence, because there is a 3rd party there in the background?

We should, as much as possible, be trying to do better than our exes wBPD did by us, and trying to treat others as we would like to be treated. This girl deserves someone who can give her his whole heart, and that's not someone who is still caught up in the fall out from a break up such as the ones we've all been through.

By the way, telling someone that you've got feelings invested elsewhere, you want to take it slow etc. don't mean a thing if your actions are saying otherwise. That's as bad as when someone says 'I don't have time to be in an official relationship' or refuse to be defined as boyfriend/girlfriend... .but then act in every, way shape and form as if they ARE in an exclusive relationship, only to suddenly say one day 'but I told you it's not an official relationship'. That's how hearts get broken.

I LIKE the new girl in my life. She's wonderful. So I told her, "lets take it easy, and see each other 1-2 times a week, and date each other, like two people do after they've known each other for 5 weeks".

I see NOTHING wrong with it. Nobody falls head over heal at 37 in just a few weeks.

Also, re: the not having a cold bed thing... .I am not so sure.

My ex is extremely beautiful, although sadly his drinking habit often means he ends up looking like a dishevelled tramp, but that's another story. He's quite exotic looking but dresses a bit like a student, not a 36 year old. I digress... .the point is that he could probably snap his fingers and 'bed' any number of women if he wanted to do. Perhaps he is, I'm not sure.

But... I don't think so. As we know from our collective experiences, BPDs crave love, affection and attention. My ex is also from a culture where people express themselves passionately over the slightest thing... .everything is so heartfelt. Yes, we had a very physically active relationship, but it was also extremely affectionate, lots of cuddling and kissing etc. I have braced myself for months against the possibility of seeing him around town with someone new, holding her hand as he did mine, cuddling her. To date, and of course this could change at any moment, it hasn't happened.  We were known around town as a couple, people knew and recognised us, even to the point that waiters on the sea front would say "but where is he? What happened?"  Mutual friends have skirted round the issue in embarrassed "I won't say anything if you won't" silence.  I have been expecting to see a new girl in my place... .but all I've ever seen, so far, is him trudging round town on his own, or out drinking with male friends, in a group, or his new 'best friend', who is a woman.  I thought for a long time they would get together but now it looks to me as if they are great friends, and as he puts such emphasis on his friendships, I don't suppose he's going to jeopardise that by showing her who he really is. He is a better friend to people than he ever is a boyfriend, I'm guessing because they don't get AS close as I did.

I've been watching him, through the social media he hasn't blocked me on, and it's clear as day to me that he is drinking more than ever before. It's ramped up in the last 6 weeks or so, since he started seeing me more around town. I am not saying that it's connected, but I am saying that he plugs the gap and numbs the pain with alcohol, that is for sure. Many times it is with her. A lot of the time, it's alone. When he and I were together, we spent the whole of every weekend together, especially Sat nights. But I have seen him out alone, or with male friends, nearly every time. If he had replaced me, I would have seen him holding the replacement's hands around town, as he did mine... .I'm sure of it.


So, I don't think it's always the case that they can't be alone. My ex is extremely intelligent, and high functioning. He even told me after the first break up that he 'didn't want to cheat me' and that he missed me but that he'd rather walk around town alone than do this to me again in a few months... .as if it were inevitable that he would leave me again! He knows something is wrong with him. I don't think they all do, from reading all your posts.

I am currently painted blacker than black. I already was, and then he leapt out to accost me to tell me how much I've been deleted from his life, and I walked. I sometimes wonder if he feels a fraction of what I do, and that is that I feel almost unable to move on because this has been left as a gaping open wound, with two injured parties and no proper conclusion. There was so much love there, on both sides, I am sure, and now we're totally  blown apart. I fully recognise that replacing him would be a gargantuan task... .I wonder if he even feels a tiny little bit the same after throwing me away. I find it surprising, in some ways, that I haven't seen him with someone new other than his new friend. I will be choosing my next romantic move VERY carefully. This town is smaller than small, and it talks. To be seen with someone new, I will really have to have a good feeling about it.

Ridiculously, despite the fact that my ex has hurt me beyond all belief, rejected me and painted me black... .I don't want to hurt him. I don't want him to see me with just anyone else, I want it to be because someone has come along who is too good to turn down.  

In my view you're right Stripey. And I did think the same you are expressing.

I just decided to bite my tongue, or fingers in this case, for a change.

Also because it seems I am very old fashioned in my views.

In my world you fall in love before you start a relationship not the other way round. Dating is just hanging out, to get to know someone, no more than that.

In this case yes, the new girl is aware there are 'feelings' for the ex. But in my view having feelings in not the same as being utterly in love. So the new girl is not aware of what is really going on. She is being used. To not feel lonely, to have fun, to have sex, to be a temporary stand-in as long as ex is unavailable. But NCEA your heart is not in it. You are going to break her heart. You are just waiting. Waiting till the ex feels 'healthily pressured' to go into therapy because you dating someone else is playing into her fear of abandonment. Then the new girl will get dumped. Utterly unfair as you are not being honest with her.

Nor with yourself or your ex.

Because using dating someone else as pressure to play into someone's fear of abandonment to force them into therapy is very unhealthy. And controlling. If not bordering on narcisstic.

Do you REALLY want your ex to go into therapy because you want HER to become happy regardless of who she is in a relationship with? Or because YOU want her for YOU and you cannot manage her without her being less BPD?

You seem to want to control her a lot "she will read what I tell her to" "I have her chasing me" "it took less than 48 hours". You are manipulating her.

Talking about therapy is not starting it. Knowing you are doing it, doesn't mean she will. Starting therapy doesn't mean she will be able to follow through. Starting therapy doesn't make the BPD disappear like snow in the blazing sun, far from it. So even if she starts therapy that doesn't mean a recycle at that point stands any chance. It takes years and years of therapy for pwBPD to be able to learn how to manage their BPD. So she is not ready for a relationship any time soon. That is either wishful thinking or manipulation.

Are you going to wait for her all those years? Or will the new girl get the dubious honour of being the stand-in for those years while you watch the ex go through therapy? Or will you do the right thing and end it with both?

I LIKE the new girl in my life. She's wonderful. So I told her, "lets take it easy, and see each other 1-2 times a week, and date each other, like two people do after they've known each other for 5 weeks".

I see NOTHING wrong with it. Nobody falls head over heal at 37 in just a few weeks.

[/quote]
Yes, they do. They absolutely do. You are deliberately putting brakes on that to try to stop it happening, because you are, whether your realise it or not, hedging your bets. You and she have no chance of falling 'head over heels' do you? Because you only want to see her once or twice a week. In my book, that's keeping things pretty casual, and her at arm's length.

People who are ready to love, and give, and who are in the right place emotionally, absolutely can fall in love in a relatively short time frame. How long do you think is the right length of time before she's allowed to see more of you? Will it be when you finally give up on your ex? But when will that be?

I do find it really quite sad that you see absolute 'nothing wrong' in dating someone else, who is clearly trying to progress the relationship a little (which is natural) when you have told us all that you are still in love with your ex. In love!  At what point, or how many weeks/months in, is this girl allowed to be a little bit more to you then? How can she be, ever, whilst you are still paying so much attention to your ex?  If you were ready to date someone else, you would care less about your ex's feelings on the matter.

I'm not saying this to bash you over the head with it or trying to make you feel bad. I'm asking how you would feel if you were dating someone who you really liked, and you found out that they were still in love with their ex and deep down, hoping for a reconciliation? Because you are.

As Bibi said several posts back... .your new girl doesn't stand a chance. She already doesn't stand a chance.  

@Bibi... .

Exactly. Thank you.

I don't necessarily think you 'fall in love' before making a relationship official, but you definitely should have good intentions, and a want to invest your feelings if you decide to enter into one. i.e. it's because you recognise its potential and decide that the two of you are making a serious go of it.

Or the third way of course, is that you can stick it out and make your life with your ex GF, knowing all that comes with it, the ups and downs, knowing that she will leave and come back.  That is entirely your prerogative and if you and your ex want to do that, then you're both adults. We can't help the love we feel for our exes. 

But you should absolutely be doing it without the involvement of an entirely innocent 3rd party.

I will ALWAYS be in love with my ex. I'm chained to her, it's that kind of thing.

So what are you saying, that I should NEVER try and date again?

Do you understand the concept of TRYING something out and seeing how it goes?

I do NOT use her for sex, in fact the other night we had dinner and I insisted on each going to his own place, and I'm insisting on seeing each other only 1-2 times a week precisely so I have space to see what my feelings are (if I miss her or not) while being lonely and wishing she was there.

You have to understand that I've been doing open relationships for five years and I'm capable of having feelings towards multiple people in the same time.

You mentioned something about being old fashioned... .Yes.

And the reason this is NOT casual dating is that I won't date anyone else in this time.

Also I live in London and my T is in Israel. I'm flying today to Israel to meet my T (two actually, also an NLP therapist who knows me) so I can later go back to London and we can continue therapy on skype.

So that's the length I'm going to in order to try and sort my thoughts / feelings out.

I have tried open relationships myself. I hated it.

I don't believe in being in love with more than one person. Feelings perhaps, in love no.

So, IMO, you will never fall in love with the new girl as long as you're in love with your ex.

I do think a part of you can always love someone even if you haven't seen them in decades. I don't think you can be IN love with them. In love is just the first stages.

There is nothing wrong with dating after a relationship is over and seeing where something can go. When the relationship is really over and your heart is available. So if you have no feelings for ex or if she lives on the South Pole and you never see her. But you're in love with your ex and you're in contact. So the feelings for the new girl will stay just that, feelings. You will not fall in love with her. You're already in love with someone else.

No no no. There is a difference between loving an ex, and being IN love. Being IN love usually requires that a relationship is kept alive by both partners, its watered and nourished... .after a long time apart, it's difficult to maintain feelings of being in love if only one of you is engaged. I'm sure we all have exes we still love, but not IN love with. If we are contemplating dating others, then that's the way it should be anyway as that's only fair on them. I am probably still in love with my ex as well. And therefore, not at all ready to even kiss someone else. Get the difference?

To answer your question, yes, the best thing to do would be to not date whilst your head is where it is right now. It is possible to be alone and not date anyone at all, you know. You will survive. That is the adult, moral, correct, and unselfish thing to do.

It's not us who 'has to understand' - it's not our hearts and heads you're playing with. Does this girl 'understand' that you usually have open relationships and can feel for more than one person at a time? We are all capable of having feelings of love for more than one person at the same time, we're human beings. But MOST of us don't act upon them with more one person at a time.

By putting your story out there on this forum, you are seeking to elicit our consul and thoughts. Everyone on here, throughout this thread, has spoken almost as one, and I sense that you don't like what we are saying. But you are using this girl. You are.  Not just for sex, but for everything, whatever you tell yourself.  Go back, and read alllll the things you've told us.

Ok, you like her. She's wonderful. You want to see her. But whilst you 'see how it goes'  and 'try things out' (wow... .) just what exactly is in all of this for her? That's what I don't get. And does all this talk of being in love with your ex, having feelings for more than one person at a time, mean then that it is acceptable for this girl to do the same? How would you feel if she told you she's in love with someone else and always will be? Would it be ok if on the other 5-6 nights a week, she is talking to another man, for example... .to see how it goes?


I'm sorry but I think you're going to have a hard time getting anyone here to support what you're doing, in light of what you've told us. If you truly want to 'sort yourself out' do it on your own time  - not on someone else's and at the potential cost of her feelings. It really, really is that simple.

That's what open relationships are, and if she wanted to go that road, I'd probably be up for it.

What's in it for her? I'm a really nice guy and she's enjoying my company and friendship. She's 24, not 12, she's an adult and can walk out at any moment.

Honestly I thought my ex wouldn't care at all by the way she was in the past two weeks. And I still don't know. If she writes me right now that we should try again, of course I'll say yes and leave my new friend, I admit that. I know this is a little "off" but it's not evil and I won't drag it for more than a few more days.

Since it sounds like you are still involved in some sort of relationship with your ex, you may want to post on the staying or deciding boards. Those members will have advice as how to proceed with your ex, your current girl and issues such as open relationships with BPD.

Can a mod move it there?

Except that YOU stated that this wasn't an open relationship - see above.

Now you're saying that you'd be ok with her being with another man?  But you said it wasn't casual dating - see above.

Oh, and you'd happily leave her if/when your ex comes back.  But you said it wasn't casual dating - see above.

You're tripping yourself up even on this thread!  Your new gf clearly doesn't think it's an open relationship. You have just told all of us it's not casual dating and you're leading her to believe the same. Giving her a key to your place but then trying to back pedal and give her the 'let's take it slow' talk. Take what slow? An open relationship where you have no intention of progressing things with her?  lol

What's most worrying is, you can't see anything wrong in anything you're saying.

NCEA, itd be best to start a new thread as this one is near its post limit.

lets also be mindful that we arent "saying it louder to be heard".

IF we DISCUSSED that it's an open relationship. Then. Not out of nowhere.

What we discussed is that I'm confused and have feelings towards my ex, did you get that part?

Another thing - our first date was The Book of Mormon with tickets I bought for my ex, but then she canceled the trip to London. She KNOWS these tickets were for my ex. I told this to her. She also knows I was depressed because of my ex for months AND that I visited her in Paris three weeks ago.

Just how much information do I need to give to be truly honest? To bluntly say "I'm still in love with her"? Really? And then cut it off and not give us ANY chance of being together?

Do you REALLY think she'd prefer that on seeing how things pan out in the next 1-2 weeks?

Life is grey and messy sometimes.

I also want to add, when my ex cancelled the trip to London and more precisely when she changed that damn whatsapp photo, something broke in me and I felt I've fallen out of love with her a little. But it came back big time in the past 7-10 days. Things change... .And it takes time until you understand what's going on exactly. If I'd just cut my new girl out without saying anything, not trying to figure it out , she could come here and say what a BPD I am leaving from "one minute to the next "

*mod*

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