BPDFamily.com

My MIL has uBPD.

MIL and her husband (FIL) live in another city a few hours drive away. They visit often, as we have 2 young kids who they

adore and love seeing.

I've known my MIL long enough that I just keep as big a distance as possible from her. When she visits, I don't have to see

her during weekdays as I'm at work. Weekends are tougher.

Even on her good days she is not a pleasant person to be around, but that's less a case of her

mental health problems as just a sour and very annoying personality.

My wife has a difficult relationship with her mother. She hates her, but loves her father dearly. As much as she would like

to severely limit contact with her mother, she won't do it because she wants to maintain a strong relationship with her dad.

A few weeks ago they wanted to visit us. They had just recently visited about a month before for almost a week. There was no way I was going to let them come so soon again. My wife told them they could not visit, and I think she essentially blamed it on me, that I didn't want them over. MIL would not take no for an answer, and insisted they could stay at a hotel and only come to the house when I was at work.

Still I said no. MIL is a witch and I need to limit how much she is part of our lives.

This triggered one of her manic episodes which involves a flurry of emails and voicemails. They are downright sickening, so

much so that I can't even open the emails or listen to the messages. Its very upsetting. I can probably get a restraining order on him based on these emails.

Because I blocked MIL's email address a long time ago, she uses FIL's email account (she knows his password). He can see she sends me horrific messages, but chooses to ignore this.

MIL causes tension to my wife (by pitting her between me and MIL). My wife ended up blocking her phone number for a couple of weeks.

Lo and behold, MIL and FIL are planning to visit in a couple of weeks. This visit has been planned for a while, and we will end up agreeing they

can come.

I find the whole thing so uncomfortable. I hate both of them. I hate FIL too for enabling her behaviour and not closing his own email account.

At this point I don't care if they visit, I'll just ignore her. But its so awkward when they are here. There is an elephant in the room which is not discussed.

My question is: is this a sustainable way of having a relationship with her? In other words, I ignore her insane behaviour and forget it happened?

Should I just assume she is jekkyl & hyde?

I'd love to tell them to both get lost until she gets help (will never, ever happen). But my wife wants them to have a relationship with our kids and she loves her father too much.

I'm sick and tired of having to deal with this woman.

That sounds like an awful situation.  Obviously we're all dealing with difficult people in our lives.  But the level of difficulty seems to be cranked up a bit higher with your MIL.  Particularly when she invades boundaries like that and won't take "no."  I feel for your wife for wanting to maintain a relationship with her dad.  I'd hate to lose my relationship with my brother because of my BPD sil. But yeah, they spouses are not innocent when they spend so much of their time doing nothing and act as flying monkeys.  

As far as your dealings with your MIL.  I think you need to do whatever you need to do.  It sounds like they agreed to come over when you're not home.  If they can stick to that, it may not be so bad for you.  Though, if she's crossing boundaries and visiting after you already said "no," I'm just guessing she's the sort of person who will do what she likes.  And may even stick around and wait till you get home.  

I'm guessing that your wife needs to work through how to better deal with these problems.  In the first 7 or so years of our marriage, I would agree to do things that BPD SIL wanted to do.  So my husband, who typically works much more than 40 hours a week, would get dragged to get togethers with my brother and SIL on the weekends.  And it wasn't fair to my husband, since it was just more work and stress for him on weekends when he deserved to take it easy.  And in our situation, he ended up taking on the role of watching the kids, because my brother and SIL wouldn't, and their oldest was aggressive toward our child.  It took awhile before I my response changed from "okay, whatever you want" to "I'll check with my husband, and get back to you."  

I think when it's just me, it can be kind of easy to let someone cross my boundaries.  But in a marriage, it isn't just my boundaries, but my husband's boundaries, too.  And you both need to be a team in drawing the line.  

Best of luck getting through this.  

Welcome to BPD family 

One thing I've taught my 15 year old daughter is that when you marry a man you marry his family so if you don't like his family find another boyfriend.

I am sorry things are so difficult for you. I imagine they are even more difficult for your wife. What is she doing to heal from her childhood? I think one of the best things you can do for her is support her in  her own healing process.

So sorry about your situation.  I like Pilpel's advice that you and your wife need to agree on some very firm mutual boundaries.  Might consider some counseling.  You both need to be united, firm and consistent. 

I'm wondering what would happen if your wife announced to her parents that, should any fighting occur during the upcoming visit (or whatever else occurs), there will be a longer length of time before you will consider having them back.  (i.e. if usual frequency is every 3 months, then 4 or 5 months before they can come back).  Perhaps state that FIL can come back sooner by himself. Then, indicate if there is any angry response to your announcement about a consequence,  the upcoming visit will be cancelled and can't be rescheduled for a certain number of months.

I know your wife wants to see her dad, but you have to try something to change the situation. If MIL wants to stay off restriction, she might try and behave.  I'm thinking she is running the show, without  firm consequences that stay in place as stated.

You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result with her.  Maybe if FIL really wants to come visit he might decide to come out of his shell and say something to his wife.  It would be interesting if FIL would come visit by himself, but doesn't sound like that will likely happen.  Your wife might have to agree to one round of a delayed visit or a cancelled visit.  Pay a small price now for some possible benefit later.  I can't imaging having to deal with MIL for years to come without some modification in her behavior. 

Thank you so much for your responses. Its great to have this support.

For the last number of years its a predictable cycle with MIL. She does something terrible and we punish her

by limiting contact for an extended period of time. She crawls back and then its a matter of time until

she does something terrible again. And we punish her again. Its never ending.

Most recently, she email harassed my wife's cousin's husband just days after his mother died. The reason she emailed

was to say that my wife's cousin was a terrible daughter-in-law to this woman who just died. It was malicious, and really,

really sick. I was forwarded the emails and advised by my wife's cousin not to let my kids around MIL, but did not share

them with my wife as I did not want to upset her.

At this point my wife just dismisses MIL as being very sick, but harmless.

FIL will never, ever come out of his shell. He's a classic Fisherman. He's very scared of his wife. Over the years FIL has

visited us several times alone though.

The main thing I need to do with my wife is establish firm boundaries for MIL. The issue is that my wife is scared to

communicate these boundaries. For example, when MIL pushed the boundaries a few weeks ago by wanting to visit and we said no,

it opened the floodgates of serious harrassment.

What really bothers me is that MIL uses FIL's email account to harrass me and he does NOTHING about it. I can't respect

this man and I'm starting to hate him.

Regarding healing, my wife hasn't really sought out healing from her childhood. I can't imagine some of the terrible things she

endured. On the other hand MIL can be a very loving, caring and thoughtful person. And overall, she received a lot of love from

her parents growing up.

My wife sees herself as being very "resilient". And she is, I actually admire her ability to cope with certain situations and

be tough. But in many situations she does not cope well. Her attitude is to plug ahead, and focus on our own family and her

friends.

I have a similar situation with my own uBPD mother as your wife does - can't stand my mother, but I adore my father.

I think for starters it's important to keep in mind that your FIL has to live with his wife. He may be passive not because he doesn't care, but because unfortunately he has to make the choice to defend you and live in hell at home, or let his wife do as she pleases and hope it works out with you two. It's a horrible situation with him, and after so many years of grooming by his wife, it's important to remember how difficult his life has been and what he has had to endure.

The big issue I see here is lack of boundaries. If you give in to the visits after you say "no", you are basically teaching her that if she throws enough of a tantrum, she will get what she wants. You mentioned this cyclical pattern of punishment and then she eventually comes back. There is no disincentive to her ridiculous behavior. She needs to understand that when she visits your house, it's your turf and your rules. She needs to be able to be civil when she is in your own goddam house. Your wife is responsible for dealing with her people, although it's hard in this case with such a volatile MIL. She is afraid of her mother - I can relate. But it's causing tension in your marriage, and this should always come first even over a volatile and unpredictable mother.

Another issue is having your MIL visit and influence your children when you are not around. She is NOT harmless. Do you know what she says to your kids, or what behavior she models while you're away? If she's anything like my mother, I could imagine her pitting children against their own parents to maintain control. Maybe she talks about how mommy and daddy don't want grandma around. Impossible to know, but I would be seriously concerned since she has a long history of manipulative behavior - and children are prime targets who can be easily groomed.

It is also not normal to show the children that grandma has a relationship with them, but only when you're away. This is a recipe for very complicated family dynamics when the children become old enough to ask for their grandma to come over, or to join them on a family trip, etc. I say this from experience because I had a similar relationship with my father's parents (think of me like in the position of your current children). I would only see them at their house, never with my mother around. We never got together as a group. They would ask about my mother but it was always awkward. It was very strange I think a very poor example of a healthy family dynamic.

It's hard to know what course to take - when you set boundaries, she rages. When you let her in, your relationship with your wife is tense. Have you thought about talking to a professional about how to set clear boundaries and stick to them? To me it sounds like you and your wife do not agree on the best course of action, and this lack of unified plan leads to this back-and-forth with your MIL, who can manipulate that weakness to her advantage.

I'm thinking you are at a critical junction.  Try counseling and look for an interactive psychologist that will assist you and your wife to reach mutual agreement on boundaries and then bond together to enforce them without fail. You might consider sharing the email from your cousin with your wife. (perhaps something to discuss within a counseling session.

You can't really know what might be going through your children's minds, if they see arguments and chaos every time MIL is around (even if it happens every other time - still has impact).

A read a post on the boards recently.  The person, with a BPD mom stated that she personally had more of a problem with her mother changing from nice to nasty.  She thought it would be easier for her, if her mom stayed in one mode.  The fact that MIL can be a nice person at times, shouldn't mean that you let down your guard when it comes to your children.


If FIL has visited by himself on several occasions, might remind your wife of that and promote more solo visits by him (when MIL is on restriction).  That means that FIL can choose to see the children more frequently than MIL. 


The easiest thing FIL could do, regarding email, is to  change his password (to something strong enough that MIL can't break it - nothing that she can figure out).  He might not do that, since he can't stand up to MIL and MIL will probably go into a rage when she discovers it.

One option, would be to create a Gmail account for FIL, password and all (you take this action for him).  That way, he has no history for MIL to find.  He would connect via a browser and all the records would be online.  He could be coached to use it only for email to you (and perhaps to include your wife).  You would keep his other address blocked (or future addresses MIL uses).

Just sharing some thoughts.  I set up an email address on Google for my mom. An email address was required to view electronic checking account records via her bank's website.  You can do something basic and use your FIL's name as the email address + something added to it.  In my mom's case, I was able to grab the number 4 + her first and last name (makes it easy to remember).

If your FIL isn't tech savvy, you could probably have command of the password.  He probably wouldn't think to change it.  If for some reason MIL gets into this account, you can change the password and then let him know what the new one is.  Since the account would only be used just for conversation, there shouldn't be any privacy issues, as long as FIL doesn't use the account for his personal business purposes or for anything he wants to hold private. You might think of this account as your private message board.


Since your wife seems to minimize the effect of your MIL's impact on others, you might think about sharing the email with her.  Now is the time to take aggressive steps and have concurrence on firm boundaries.  An ounce of prevention is a lot better than 10 pounds of cure, should your children be harmed by MIL in any way. 

Your wife doesn't know what she doesn't know.  You have seen what MIL is capable of.  The behavior that your wife seems to have accepted, shouldn't become the norm for your children.  It is not optimum for children to be subjected to MIL's bad behavior.  Would you let someone with a contagious disease be around your children without extensive measures to prevent them from catching it?  Explosive rages/temper tantrums by an adult is poor modeling for children, at any age.  But, what are they to think in their most formative years? 

Thanks @GreenGlit, that’s really helpful. I’m sorry you are going through a similar situation. You certainly have a good grasp of my own situation.

Regarding what you say about FIL, he has a choice. And each day he makes a conscious choice to live with this woman who does very evil things to people that he loves, and probably to himself. He is not prisoner. Now I’m not saying separation would be easy, but it’s an option. From the time my dad first met FIL he referred to him as a “beaten down man”.

You are right regarding the boundaries. Where I struggle is I want to put my MIL in her place. The one time I really spoke up to her was a real disaster. It was the biggest fight we’ve gotten into with her. That’s not to say I regret doing it, I don’t. But I feel like it’s my wife’s family and it’s her place to do it. But she is scared and feels like she’s walking on egg shells.

When MIL visits I want my wife to communicate lots of little things to her too, like being clean in the house, not saying certain things, etc. Instead we mostly bottle it up when she is over for fear of sparking her rage.

Regarding being harmless I completely agree with you, she is not. I should have clarified but I meant physically harmless – she has never demonstrated physical harm ever.

My oldest is 3.5 years old and I am worried about what she will say to him. To me that would be a line that cannot be crossed. I am sure in the future there will be an enormous fight about something she says to the kids. Maybe something like how we are bad parents, or how I don’t like her.

Ultimately we will need to seek counseling. Because I tell my wife we need to set firm boundaries but ultimately we don’t follow through.

When MIL is raging through emails, do you think it’s best to ignore them, or is it better to address them directly with her? It might be a few days after her episode ends, when she is not manic.

Hi Pulati,

I can relate to struggling with putting the MIL in her place and sparking a rage, or keeping your mouth shut to keep peace and being very bothered that she maintains control when in your home. It's a really tough place to be in, and there's not a great solution.

My solution was to stand my ground - in my case, before my wedding when my mother and sister wanted to plan the events of the day, and include children which we didn't want at the actual wedding. I calmly but extremely firmly stood my ground. It was the biggest fight we got into ever in my life. I haven't spoken to my uBPD sister in over a year, she didn't come to my wedding, and I don't think I'll ever see her again except maybe my parent's funerals. Dark times.

I've come to terms that I can't ever have the family I want, and sometimes I wonder if what I did was right. But at the end of the day I don't regret standing my ground, because my life is mine now, after many years of it not being under my own control. It was a big sacrifice for a big gain. So... .I can understand how terrified your wife is. Whenever I see my mother I have a ton of anxiety, can't sleep at night, wake my husband up with nightmares... .it's extremely stressful. Just this past Monday I graduated from med school and I spent the evening before crying out of anxiety and sadness because she is still angry about the wedding 10 months ago and would make constant passive-aggressive statements to me and my in-laws, when we just wanted to celebrate.

I learned in therapy that while I can't fix my mother, the most useful thing to do with a BPD family member is to be consistent. This consistency in your actions and reactions to her behavior will not just set boundaries, but create some normalcy in her life because your reactions are predictable, and do not vacillate with her emotional roller coasters. For me, my biggest support is my husband. You clearly are also supportive of your wife. Keep encouraging her, because you will help manage her fears.

BPDs seem really unstable and volatile, but they are also master manipulators. They know you extremely well, and can say just the right things to manipulate the situation to their benefit. They know when to yell, when to say hurtful things, etc... .and as you know, it works! I'm sure your MIL can feel you putting up boundaries and she knows just how to break them down... .like I said, a very tough place to be.

Counseling sounds like a great idea. Your MIL will not leave your life anytime soon so it's important to know how to manage her together. I don't have great advice for the e-mails. I tend to not respond to e-mails that are raging because they're not sent in a logical state of mind, and it's my opinion you can't make sense out of something nonsensical. I guess you have to consider your goals and if they are realistic. For me, nothing will change the way my mom is, I just have to learn to manage her as best as possible without sacrificing my needs. So for me, responding to the e-mails won't get me what I want, which is someone who is capable of understanding how I feel and responding in an appropriate way.