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Why cant they say i just need some space when feel engulfed - why does it have to lead to such extreme behaviour? Is it because they think as non we wouldn't tolerate that and abandon them?

i think "i need space" is probably something many members have heard many times, actually.

the short answer i think, is that youre talking about someone with a lacking/dysfunctional sense of how to meet their needs or communicate.

Is that because they dont know what their needs are?

For them, the feelings of engulfment and abandonment are extreme and feel like a crisis.

Often, while they want space, they also want to be wanted and do not typically want you to turn your attention/interest away to other things, even if they want to turn theirs to other things. 

For me it means they can always come back to you after they have completely destroyed themselves,  and you will be more apt to take them back in their desperate state,  perhaps just simply forgiving their past transgressions just to bring them back to life.

so we are supposed to be like yo- yos on a piece of string?

What freaks me out is that the whole time I thought I was being supportive I was obvs making him worse because he had to push things to the insane extreme to see what I'd put up with- making him go to low depths

I'm obviously as nihilistic as him but in a different way  -we are a dangerous mix

I am feeling so weird presently I hope it fades -there's no reason for us to be connected presently as he has paid me money back. Ive blocked his fbk account and deleted his number but he is very much in my system-taking over my mind dstracting me from focusing 0n myself

Hi Cherryblossom

Every relationship has it's ups and downs - and most stand or fall on the ability to communicate effectively. When my ex had a problem with me, she behaved like a recalcitrant child - I was supposed to guess what was wrong and make amends.   They can't fix a problem because they lack adult reasoning skills and emotional intelligence - and we become a trigger for them 'acting out' whether we mean to or not.

In terms of protecting themselves from the negative emotions (shame) that would come from admitting their role in relationship problems they take the easy way out, devalue us and walk away. In most cases a replacement is soon secured who serves a contingent function in validating the 'fact' that there's nothing wrong with them... .


Fanny

yes he couldn't take my honest approach and facing up to problems -think it led him to think I was flawed -"your f'd anyway" was one of the lovely things he said towards the end

at one point he was able to grasp Jung's concept of roots having to grow down into hell before reaching the light and yin/yang etc... .but it couldn't stick... .I guess it felt too difficult... .not committed enough to change

"I love you -you are like my best friend- I want to sleep with you - I am so attracted to you --we should have stayed just friends -----we have the pinnacle of love... .but I don't want to be in a relationship with you"

I'm sorry you had to go through this - it is difficult to rationalize where we ended up from where we started!   I think pwBPD struggle with the hard work of a relationship i.e. post honeymoon period. Once they see you as 'imperfect' they feel obliged to look for a better mate who won't annoy, frustrate and trigger them.

Fanny

Not only do they NEED to feel validated by someone new, who hasn't seen through their smoke screen yet, but they also know that it is the best and easiest way to devistate your ego and emotions!  It keeps them feeling like they are in control of you I guess.

I believe you are correct josephrl82

All I've heard about the behaviours of my exBPDgf indicate control, so she's trying to punish me and our son through me or me through our son.

It's about more than that.

An adult relationship requires work. Adult love is a verb. You need to say what you want, what you don't want, show who you are, make yourself vulnerable, control anger, things like that.

BPD love is not a verb it is a state. The second the pwBPD discovers work is required they either panic or get bored. Or both.

Panic: They can't do this. They don't know how. They can do the "you're amazing" but not beyond that. RUN!

Bored: I'm a toddler. I already know this ball. It's round. I have kicked it, I said it was beautifully round and shiny and it was fun. Now I need to do more? Oh... .look... .a shiny new fire truck...

Thanks WoundedBibi

This sounds right in my case, just a new toy and like so many have told me this will continue for a very long time. My pride is blinding me to the reality that I gave more, I loved more, it wouldn't matter if I gave more she would still not change.

It's all about their wants and happiness

No wonder they don't learn.  And no wonder they "believe" it was all our fault.  The replacement validates their thoughts as they don't know any better, all they are hearing are the horror stories about the previous attachment, and have no reason at that stage to question what they are being told.

Ugh BPD is horrible!

This is what my ex did found a replacement rather than try to repair what was wrong between us. We met once to discuss ‘our’ problems which according to him were actually ‘my’ problems and he told me that if I’m not careful he would be forced to find another woman. He seemed to want me to accept all the blame for our troubles and just pick up where we left off.  Is it a case that he just ‘couldn’t’ see his part in the turmoil or just ‘wouldn’t’?

My understanding (from people much smarter than me) is that a BPD mind is black/white all/nothing.

Therefore to admit fault (TRULY admit fault, not some surface apology) they think of themselves as all bad (rotten) they struggle grasp they are NOT all bad, just bad in this instance (lying/cheating)

Facing admitting this unlocks their core shame, sort of peeking under the bed when you KNOW there is actually a monster under there.

Without the tools a regular adult has to deal with these factors, the quick easy and safe method to process things is simply to move on and be told by someone else there is nothing wrong with you.

I'm so angry, hurt and gutted my wife chose the easy way out and moved on. But from what I read, that is 99% of cases. We are NOT the 1% #occupyBPD

God creates man,

Man denies God, (sex with insane people)

Man creates God, (partner)

Woman becomes God

Woman rules man,

Man denies God, (partner)

Man finds the real God

Man is healed

Woman still thinks she's God

I like the fire truck analogy quote by woundedbibi

I guess because they can't cope with certain things so they use us as medicine.  The second we can not give them what they need they start to panic.  My exwBPD mother used to hit him and verbally abuse him.  His body got so conditioned to that, the minute I got upset over anything his body automatically perceived me as his mother.  If your abused for so long your body lives in a state of constant high alert.  Anything can be perceived as a threat. I think this may be one of the reasons why I was discarded so many times.  He told me how it's been so long since he got close to anyone so when we were together it was hard for him to deal with that closeness.  I think because he was never taught how to cope with situations and his reality was beatings and verbal abuse by his mother that never stopped his brain automatically perceived that's what was going to happen with anyone.   I think maybe that's why they don't stay because the anxiety is so painful and they never learned to cope or see things differently.   

Even though what happened to most people wBPD that led to have this disease is horrible but at the same time we aren't nt responsible for what someone did to them in the past.  They have to be active in tying to get that healing.  It is not fair that we get treated bad because of what someone else did. 

Mine said because too much has happened between us. Particularly when I called the police/ then he said he was afraid of me He knew he treated me horrible and I should not accept the behavior. Since I did for so long- he didn't respect me. We need to have boundaries. Then when we do they leave. He thought he was better suited with someone more at his maturity level- or should I say immaturity.

Funny, mine said the same thing.  That when we were apart he didn't have any inicidents, that he didn't drink that much because he wasn't stressed and that he was at peace.  I don't know how much of it I believe.  It always bothered me to hear that as if we are the cause to all their problems

Personally I also find it hard to not be able to say to her, "I know they guy you are with now and know that you know he is a loser. You are degrading yourself and just feeding on the attention which will not last, again, as with all the other relationships. I am the one who was compassionate and honest with you and I am the best chance you will ever have to feel any sort of peace and happiness" but that would be a nightmare :-) We get no closure, no discussion and have to watch them just move on. My GP said they are so shallow that they don't realise that other peoples emotions can be so much more and hence feel there is nothing to worry about. Ugh... .I guess the other way to see it is if they were like rational people and we did discuss what was happening, it would quite believable that we could fix it. Some simple compromise would have been earth shattering really. Hard to swallow that we waited and waited and did everything we were conditioned to do and more, and kept hoping for that one rational moment for some fair play, justice, reason, but it NEVER comes.

Hello Andrews

So they truly never change?

This just goes on and on until?

You already know the answer to this Jerry.

They don't change.

They either seek help and learn to manage their behaviour to a degree. A DEGREE.

They fizzle out a little in old age because who listens to a raving 80 year old? Your grandson would give your ex a beer and shove granny in a cupboard because everybody knows she is a pain in the bleep and nobody listens to her anymore by then.

Or this just goes on and on until death.

Thank you WoundedBibi

I'm still in the "I think" at times, doughting my judgement and question my sanity. It is coming back and I'm thankful for all of you for helping me get there. It's kind of like the first few weeks/months of AA I had this sneaky suspicion AA was a cult. Then later hearing almost everyone has this silly idea.

I was indoctrinated into a life that was a cult, my relationship with my exBPDgf. She did her best to convince me what I seen, felt, thought, heard and tasted was indeed not reality.

I told my sponser I don't trust anyone anymore, I've been lied to on a daily basis for years, his response was "has anyone in AA lied to you?" I haven't been lied to yet in 2 years and if I was it was not significant enough to scratch my skin.

I have indeed dodged a bullet by getting away from my pwBPD.

I was spared suffering any longer, I am now safe, I have peace, I can begin to think clearly, I can now enjoy doing things I used to do, her voice of condemnation is fading, I feel hopeful, I have friends and family that love me, I have my life back.

Life with my exgf = chaos, drama, lies, manipulation, hopelessness

Life without my exgf = peace

I won't soon give my peace to anyone for any reason ever again. I have found a precious gift, and it was given to me to be mine.

We can only help those who want help, I want help, I am willing to face my demons, I can love and do respect myself.

Life is good

"This is what my ex did found a replacement rather than try to repair what was wrong between us. We met once to discuss ‘our’ problems which according to him were actually ‘my’ problems and he told me that if I’m not careful he would be forced to find another woman. He seemed to want me to accept all the blame for our troubles and just pick up where we left off.  Is it a case that he just ‘couldn’t’ see his part in the turmoil or just ‘wouldn’t’?"

Mine said many of these things as well... .amazing how similar they can be.


"They don't change.

They either seek help and learn to manage their behaviour to a degree. A DEGREE.

They fizzle out a little in old age because who listens to a raving 80 year old? Your grandson would give your ex a beer and shove granny in a cupboard because everybody knows she is a pain in the bleep and nobody listens to her anymore by then.

Or this just goes on and on until death."

Funny you say this, because I have heard of a few older people having this... .parents of people I know. They are a pain in the butt and it does continue... .all the drama and need for attention. Sometimes they say it calms down with age... .I am not sure. I suppose the types of "incidents" are different as they grow older. I suppose mine will always have alcohol, since he made such a big deal out of never wanting to give it up. He makes you promise it will not be a reason to leave, but becomes such a nightmare to deal with, how could it not? I know what you mean Jerry, by not trusting anyone. I feel the same way. Especially when I keep making friends like this as well. I have absolutely no interest in dating and I am wary of people I don't know.

I tried to get my exBPDgf to go to couples counceling but she made so many excuses and blocked each attempt. I know she didn't want to go because she was afraid she would hear something she didn't want to hear.

I remember her telling me how unfair councelors can be and pick sides with one spouse, her ex husband manipulated their councelor into blaming my exgf of all the wrong in their relationship.

Red Flag!

Jerry, be glad you didn't go... .I went to several with him. He kept wanting them to tell me I was the one wrong. One time he told me I was't allowed to talk at all and he talked to the counselor the whole time about her blinds on her windows! I left the room crying. I knew she was young and new in her position and could be easily manipulated by him. He knew it too. When they would point things out and say until he stopped drinking we won't be able to figure out who he is... .he wouldn't go back.He never wanted to stop drinking.  He didn't really want to deal with it. Couples counseling, rehab and mental institutions all became ways for him to pick up more bad behavior. They have to be honest and really want to do the work... .alone- for it to help.

I agree Herodias

I cannot be in a healthy relationship for a while because I just got out of this horrible mess, don't seem too tough to understand but again I've been instructed by individuals who know these things and I trust them

My exgf finds the first guy she meets, week later in a relationship and a month later engaged. This is a disaster in the making but nothing I can do but sit back and let things transpire. I pray my son does not suffer any abuse in their childishness.

She cannot be alone so she creates the new relationship and now lies to him about me, the foundation is set in lies. Once the lies are realized the unraveling begins. Same game, different players

I also tried to get her to go with me. she told me that I was the one I needed to go ALONE and fix "my issues". I went to see a counselor and I told him all the things she had said and done. He told me to RUN and never look back. What bothered me is that he was OUR councilor however he would not tell her that she had some psychological issues. From what I read is that even Councilors sometimes won't tell their patients they have some sort of mental problem to avoid any backlash from their patients.

J82 I wonder why do they want to devistate us?

Why do they need to control us?

If they have split us black why do they care about us enough to want to control us?

If they don't want to be seen as "bad"? why cause someone else's devstation? Surely that's a "bad" thing to do?

I guess there is no logic and reflects the unstable thinking patterns etc 

Thanks this helps my understandingh

This new person he is with -I think he is using her to self sooth -I just cannot believe he would be thinking the same way he felt about me about anyone else, fair enough he might have some pleasure/highs right now but it wont be to the quality or level we had, are they shallow though? They feel things very deep I thought which causes the majority of probs--- -maybe its the defense mechanisms that give off the effect of being shallow in certain instances.

I did text bomb some angry texts at weekend -but last one I just said look I know you wont be able to take on board what I'm saying -but I sincerely hope you seek help one day -I'm focusing on me now -I deleted his number and blocked facebook so theres no way I can in a angry moment send more texts as what good will it do?

He could have met a worse person than me -I never called "him" awful or bad ever just the behaviour he did---when he called himself "evil" I always said that was not the whole picture we all have good and bad sides etc... .but unless he gets treatment he is not going to learn that properly is he? I was very careful to step off the cartman triangle when I could see it happening

He knows I will never take on rescuing role --I was supportive and did the whole caretaker role thing -I would not call myself co dependant but id say i displayed some traits----he pushed and pushed the boundaries until no choice but to split up -I always put ball back in his court however-he just got too tired of seeking help and support--and there was no way I'd stay in relationship with him unless he did.

god knows what this new one tolerates? When I saw him back in Jan he looked a state. She may make him feel good for a bit -but he's still going to have the same problems

My understanding (from people much smarter than me) is that a BPD mind is black/white all/nothing.

Therefore to admit fault (TRULY admit fault, not some surface apology) they think of themselves as all bad (rotten) they struggle grasp they are NOT all bad, just bad in this instance (lying/cheating)

Facing admitting this unlocks their core shame, sort of peeking under the bed when you KNOW there is actually a monster under there.

Without the tools a regular adult has to deal with these factors, the quick easy and safe method to process things is simply to move on and be told by someone else there is nothing wrong with you.

I'm so angry, hurt and gutted my wife chose the easy way out and moved on. But from what I read, that is 99% of cases. We are NOT the 1% #occupyBPD[/quote]
True dat!

amazing Jerry! Keep it up!

That is the key! Something to come back to when the ruminations etc take over... .they are having a bit of party atm!

And the key for us as well -focusing on ourselves and our own healing ----if our paths crossed years down the line regardless of what I was doing and who I was with(because i' d be self focused anyway) and he told me he had been putting serious effort into himself I'd genuinely think fairplay even with what he's put me through---(because at that point I would be very far down my own healing journey) it would take the sting out of the futile mess of my encounter of BPD... .for me that would be a better scenario to ponder on rather than pondering about recycling etc... .I think that thought might keep me going... .there's got to be some sort of way of putting some sort of positive frame on it -----I'd rather delude myself with that fantasy scenario than a fantasy scenario of recycling the relationship

Thank you Cherryblossom

I know what I know, my emotions are still easily influenced by memories and I still relive the traumatic events, PTSD? I have had that diagnosis for years. My exBPDgf was/is and always will remain a total nightmare in size crazy shoes.

I was talking to friends after our noon AA meeting and one looked at me and asked, "did you ever get the WHY THE H*** am I with this person thought?" I laughed and said yeah it took a while but I'm here and I'm alive and I have hope.

I can laugh again and I've got a huge family of caring people who challenge me to see reality and let the garbage take itself out.

Notsurewhattothinkofthis, I actually did go to therapy when she convinced me I had problems. It made matters worse in a way because she had me so convinced I had problems that when the therapist didn't agree, it was extremely confusing. I even got as far one night as telling I think my Dad was a bit strict and maybe he didn't hug me enough, because she kept pushing. Then she had crazy sex with me after months of nothing. When I asked why she said "because you admitted some faults" or something like that. Projection or what?

When I actually got her to a counsellor together the counsellor blew it. Told us she could see we cared for each other and that it would be OK but my ex would have a long painful journey to go on. Of course that triggered everything and in the car afterwards it was a procession of reasons it was a waste of time.

To everyone here - how many times do we need to read almost identical stories to be convinced? We are good people with kind hearts who were taken advantage of by very sick people, probably unintentionally. The natural response it to try to care for them. We all did that to the point of breaking. We have to learn to leave, somehow. My ex is very intellectual, multiple degrees etc, professional, and now fawning all over a plasterer, she runs marathons and he is hugely overweight smoker - it will last for a while because he is so unmotivated he will not cause her to feel enough for abandonment or engulfment to kick in. But where does that go? I am lonely and jealous and tired and can't seem to kick it but I will because I know I just want a simple happy future hopefully with someone who loves me. I feel sad for my ex but to some extent her sad lonely world is not quite as bad for her as it would be for because she is "used" to it. Just like a child that doesn't get what it wants, it cries for a bit and then finds something else to do, for a while.They don't yet have a core self to worry about so I pray for the folks with BPD that they don't really know what they are missing.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant :-)

So when is the NON PD world conference party?

Why do schizophrenics dance around naked, make obscene gestures in public, and claim to be historical figures? Because they have a severe mental illness.  The BPD will end a good thing to chase someone else for the same reason.

Amen sweet tooth

Exercise in futility

Same here. She asked me to go with her to see a councilor at first because I had communication problems and I did not understand her. I had never ever been to a councilor in my life. She kept telling me that all the problems that happened between us was all my fault. It's crazy what we do for love. I knew that there wasn't anything wrong with me. I went to appease her really. The thing is she was a total different person in front of the councilor and everyone else. She comes across as the sweetest thing. What lurks under that mask is scary and only a few people will get to see that. She has convinced her family , coworkers, and some friends that she is the most caring sweetest thing. Only her exes and myself know what she is all about. She used to come home and tell me that she was tired of pretending to be someone else? Figure that out.